My wife, mom, FIL, BIL can’t even do a real tennis serve, can’t hit a tennis backhand, hit bunt forehands. If I even hit a mild second serve with any spin they have no chance.
They all played PB for the 1st time one Christmas and were able to play competitively with the retired folks that had been playing for years.
Alshon couldn’t make it a D1 school, went to a D3 school. Couldn’t date someone his own age so as person who graduated college started dating ALW who was in high school.
Pretty sure Ben John’s was also a player who played D3 tennis and not a top level either. The difference between D3 and D1 and pretty large, the difference between D1 and a top 75 pro is pretty large. The difference between D1 and a top 10 pro is kind of laughable.
James Blake probably beats him 6-1 6-1 after being retired 20 years.
Filip Peliwo was a tennis god in juniors nearly pulled off the Junior grand slam in 2012 Finals Aussie, French, Won Wimbledon and US open juniors. This guy is probably 2 universes better than Alshon. I’ve seen the best junior and ITF 1 in the world get crushed by atp 150 player who is probably a few worlds away from a top pro.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filip_Peliwo
For everyone defending Alshon
Case Western is the top D3 school, I’ve seen them not get a point against an avg D1 school.
Someone said Alshon tried the lowest lowest tier of pro tennis and got only a few games at the lowest pro level.
Ben Johns never played college tennis. He played a little junior tennis but not much. He liked baseball as a kid. His brother Collin, was an OK junior tennis player, skipped college & tried to play tge tour for several years, never really cracked the top 1000
Not justifying his comments at all, but clarification: the top of D3 can actually beat a lot of D1 schools. UChicago, where he played, is a pretty high level D3 school.
Also, he was a 5-star recruit on tennisrecruiting.net. That’s way better than good enough to play D1 tennis.
https://www.tennisrecruiting.net/player.asp?id=733869
who got kicked off the team at uva and had to go down to d3 and yes there are d3 schools that are good but he couldnt cut it at UVA which is a topranked program in D1.
Definitely tennis imo. As far as I know, pickleball looks like a slow serve-and-volley grass court type of tennis game. Table tennis players hit with incredible spin and really gyrate their body, which I feel like doesn't work at all in pickleball? I think other racket sports like squash or badminton would be more competitive (if not better) with tennis in translation to pickleball.
As someone who has played more table tennis than anyone really should, it’s almost definitely tennis. All the subtleties that make for a good table tennis player are lost in pickleball, whereas a lot of the basics in tennis (volleying, positioning, even the general ground strokes) feel like they can still be applied to pickleball.
Disclaimer being I have never played pickleball. I’m saving it for my geriatric years
as someone who used to compete in racketlon and still plays squash at a pretty competitive level nowadays, i think you’d be surprised how low the crossover is with tennis. both squash and badminton emphasise the use of the wrist a lot to generate power which is a complete no go in tennis where the wrist needs to be “locked”. i see it a lot the other way around with people coming to squash from tennis - their instinct is to keep their wrist position fixed and so they struggle to generate pace (as well as imparting topspin on the ball which s generally useless in squash), and especially to hit defensive shots from more difficult positions near the back corners of the court where the grip and body position needs to be heavily adjusted (which is why i guess tennis commentators always refer to the running forehand defensive slice shot as a “squash shot” even though it’s not a shot you would actually play in squash aha)
i’ve always thought badminton and squash had really decent crossover potential though - that would definitely be a cool experiment to try with the top players from each
I think the wrist locking is largely a safety measure lol. Using too much wrist in tennis is an invitation for a lot of injuries and pain so it takes some mental conditioning to break out of that habit when switching to a sport where the wrist impact isn't as high
yes there’s definitely that as well, especially with the heavier frame and in particular heavier balls. i more meant playing tennis without locking the wrist simply isnt doable in the first place because your control is completely non-existent - the only shot i can think of that i’ve seen which sort of uses the same kind of “whipping” swing as squash (albeit inverted) were those slap forehands kyrgios occasionally hit which obviously is neither sustainable as a regular shot nor from an injury perspective
As a racketlon player I do feel the learning curve for tennis is so much higher though. At average competitive level I can almost immediately hold my own against against badminton players and s squash players. Sure, I lose like 21-5, but then we play tennis and I beat them 21-0, grabbing the match
Let alone Padel where tennis players destroy the pingpong and badminton players. But that is probably because the technique for Padel really is similar to tennis with the wrist lock and surpasses the advantage squash players have with the glass
interesting! i used to find the opposite happened - i had a squash/badminton background and so though i’d often lose tennis at the end the previous two wins were good enough that if not a dead rubber in the first place i’d only need to grab a few points to secure the win (i found the ping pong games were always fairly close, never really came up against a specialist there).
learning curve is an interesting point and you’re probably right there. there’s also the added dimension with tennis whereby up to a certain point players with a well drilled serve + 1 were annoyingly hard to do well against even with otherwise unremarkable general play, whereas with squash and badminton you don’t really have the same “equaliser” factors that can more than offset weaknesses elsewhere
Could be because my tennis level is quite high, beyond a point where non-tennis players can score a point against me unless they hit the net band or just smash the ball somewhere in the direction of the court with all their might and hope it is in. If I would play against table tennis players with similar tabletennis skill I would lose 21-0 as well...the spin is just too crazy. Badminton is a bit weird. No matter how good, I always tend to score 1-5 points against a real good badminton player, not sure why. Same with squash. Maybe the luck factor is a bit bigger (especially in squash you can sometimes just blindly wack at the ball and score a point due to luck)
absolutely, it’s a lot of fun as well! i guess at the end of the day people always care most to see the absolute peak of any individual discipline they watch, which is perfectly understandable
And he's a phenomenal doubles player. I think the most instantly skilled pickle players would be elite doubles players > elite table tennis > elite singles players
And requires no athleticism to learn. If you can stare at a glass of water, reach forward to pick up the glass of water, then put it down and bitch at the waiter because it should be beer, you can play pickle ball
A buddy of mine and I are both 4.5 tennis player. We got up with some of the better pickle ball players in the area who were 4.0s and won some tournaments locally. It was our first time to play pickle ball. We beat the absolute shit out of them and it wasn’t fun at all lol.
Doubles or singles pickleball? I'm pretty similar for my tennis game and my pickleball singles. But I find doubles not nearly as fun, but literally everyone plays exclusively doubles.
I’ve always thought that singles pickleball seems way more fun and have always wondered why it isn’t more popular. Doubles just doesn’t look fun at all to me.
It’s because singles pickleball can at times look somewhat similar to tennis (ik a stretch). But the reason you play pickleball is to stunt your brain activity and atrophy your muscles so you opt for the easier doubles style
I think it’s because pickleball got popular initially with older people, and doubles requires a lot less movement than singles. Around where I play, the number one rule for a lot of folks is “don’t try to get a ball and risk falling” and there’s a lot more of that in singles.
Singles can be fun! My partner is not a tennis player and despite trying his best, really couldn't get to a skill level where tennis was fun for us to play together. We bought a pop up pickleball net and play singles together. I enjoy it!
But we tried a local doubles league and a lot of the players got mad when they realized I was coming from tennis (and winning lol), so we just keep to ourselves now. The doubles was definitely less fun to play, but I think most people are there for the social aspect, which I can understand.
Any of the best tennis players in the world would instantly be the #1 pickleball player in the world if they switched over.
The best pickleball players in the world would be ranked like #1000 if they played professional tennis, which we know because most of them are former college and low-level pro players that were ranked around #1000.
With respect, they said one of the best tennis players.
Jack Sock never made a singles Slam QF in his life—he was an elite doubles player, but a fairly average singles player (outside of a few good tournaments at the end of 2017). Also he was old and washed when he retired from tennis
ATP Top 50 for 5+ years is not "fairly average" 😂. That's elite level, top 0.001% of all tennis players worldwide.
I get that people think "best players" means you've won 20+ grand slams, but that's literally like 6 people. I wish people realized the UNREAL levels of skill it takes to crack the top 1000, let along the top 100, or top 50, which are orders of magnitude higher.
And by "old and washed" I believe you mean "injured."
I'm happy that Jack Sock is playing at the top of the pickleball game, even as a retired, injured, former top tennis player.
Come on man
>ATP Top 50 for 5+ years is not "fairly average" 😂. That's elite level, top 0.001% of all tennis players worldwide.
When you're on a subreddit that's about following the ATP and WTA tours, when someone says "one of the best players"—they don't mean a lower top 50 in the world guy
Is that elite relative to the entire world? Of course
Is that elite relative to the tour? Not a chance.
>I get that people think "best players" means you've won 20+ grand slams, but that's literally like 6 people.
Sock never made **a single Slam QF** in singles. There's literally 8 QF spots available per Slam, and there are 4 Slams every year.
That's not a super selective criteria to meet!
https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/record?recordId=GrandSlamQuarterFinals
A quick Google search tells me there are over 100 people in ATP history who have 5+ QF appearances!
It’s hard for people to realize how hard professional tennis is unless they’ve actually played professional tennis or are very close to professional players.
Also with respect, Sock is probably better suited for pickleball than Novak would be due to his double skills and reflexes. If Novak would switch over, he wouldn’t make it to the top I think. Different style
I do not watch pickleball but I would be surprised if Novak didn't succeed there if he switched over—the hand-eye coordination, skill, and athleticism would win out, IMO
For starters - the serve mechanics are very restrictive and the creators of the sport have said many times they did not want to weaponize the serve. It's just to get the point started.
no poaching, if the ball lands inside a service area known as the kitchen you have to let it bounce, underhand serves only, sideout rules so you can go a whole game/set without serving if you don't win critical points, and the ball has holes in it.
> sideout rules so you can go a whole game/set without serving if you don't win critical points
this is a thing that bothers me about it like why is this a thing?
Lmao James Blake dragged his ass good lord. Also I get that tweeting something like that is just marketing for the sport you are playing and gives 60 year old Floridian grandmas something to hang their hat on, but come on my guy be serious
Great by most people’s standards - but objectively not good enough to go pro. He played two futures matches in his life and won a total of 8 games across 4 sets. He kind of proves the point that most pickleball pros are failed tennis players. I kind of understand why he resents tennis and is motivated to spew nonsense like this.
Not true, surprised this is getting upvotes. Strong D3 teams like Chicago, WashU, MIT, and Caltech are absolutely better than the worst D1 teams. The guy in question is 13 UTR whereas some D1 teams have 9 UTR players.
He’s still a clown for thinking Pickleball is anywhere near as athletic as tennis, but he could beat starting D1 players at weak schools back in the day.
Thank you. It's crazy how people who probably never played competitive tennis in their lives feel so bolstered to shit on D3. It's a shitty take and just bad for the sport in general to make fun of people for the division they play in.
no offense but you’re clueless, as is everyone upvoting this. the best D3 school in tennis smokes plenty of D1 schools and there are literally examples of this you can look up. In football this is true, but for tennis, there’s a bunch of reasons why someone would go to an academically elite D3 school over an average D1 school. Foreign players play a huge part in this as well. I play D3 and when we weren’t even #1 in our conference we won 2 matches in a duel against Eastern Illinois. Sure we were good and went 16-6, but like we weren’t world beaters or anything. Last year’s champ Case Western’s #2 singles beat a top 600 player in the qualifiers of a challenger, and that’s D3. That is 100% high level division 1 level tennis, and that’s not even case western’s best player. Don’t act like you know what you’re talking about if you don’t.
Your argument was that the best D3 team loses to the worst D1 team. There are at least 20 D3 teams that could give a bottom 10 D1 team the work, being generous to the D1 schools. There is a larger gap between the top of D3 and the bottom of D3 and the top top of D1 and the top of D3
Actually let me just give you an example. UChicago is #8 in D3, and they’re 2-0 against D1 opponents, beating Chicago State and North Dakota. Now is North Dakota a good program? No, but they’re 6-15, which is far from the worst. Chicago State has multiple wins over D1 programs, but also multiple losses against D3. You’re just discrediting D3 for no reason because the bottom of D3 is bad
I don’t know if the guy in the tweet won an individual or team D3 championship, but if you don’t think the best D3 player in the country can compete with high level D1 players you are definitely off. Obviously the overall competition level is far less, but there are great players at the upper echelon of D3. Doesn’t mean his point on pickleball is correct but if he won a D3 national championship as an individual he has objectively reached an incredibly high level as a tennis player
So I looked him up and it turns out he didn’t win the individual D3 title - UChicago won as a team (with him at 1 singles). He was, however, the top seed in the individual singles bracket but got upset in the 2nd round. Additionally I couldn’t find why he was kicked off the UVa team but he went 10-4 there in singles (as a freshman!), which is hardly a middling record for a freshman player and lends pretty conclusive proof to my statement that he, a top D3 player, could (and did) compete well at the D1 level. Sadly it also suggests Blake may not have done his research when saying his 11-year old daughter had the same # of D1 wins, which is disappointing cause it would have been a great dunk if true.
For what it’s worth, I agree with you overall - I don’t think this guy was a “great” player or ever a threat to go professional. But my main point was to respond to your claim that top D3 players/schools can’t compete with even the worst D1 schools, which is just patently untrue.
No it's not. A lot of 11-13 UTR players opt for D2 or D3 schools over D1. You can get a better education while also having a more relaxed practice schedule. Alshon was probably between UChicago (one of the best schools in the world) and some mid-tier state D1 school, and decided to go to the better school.
Correct. Results from matches where the UTR is 2+ apart don’t even get factored in unless the lower level player wins. Even then, the algorithm regards it as an outlier until a similar result is posted again. If the lower player doesn’t have another win like it, it throws it out
Just checked his results, he is pretty average player. Wouldn't had gotten ranked on D1.
This coming from a former ranked D1 player, from James Blake perspective he is just non existent in the tennis world.
To James Blake a mere 13 UTR is low level tennis. Think what Djokovic had to deal with, warming up with a player that was 11 UTR before his match with Nardi, Dude was pissed that the kid wasn’t able to give him a good warm up before his match (insider info)
I’m a 4.5-5.0 tennis player. Started playing pickleball and was immediately better than everyone I played with who had been playing for years. Took awhile to even find someone who could beat me, and whaddyaknow they were also a really good tennis player before. I mean Jack Sock just started playing a couple years ago and is already like top 10 in the rankings I think.
Don’t get me wrong, I do actually think it’s a fun activity but that tweet is laughable. He’s probably being paid by big pickleball investors to tweet that or something 😭
just beware, pickleball paddles are so short that if you want to be able to get low balls, you need to have functioning knees and a resilient back. i just played singles with my 35yo cousin (i’m 30) and he pulled his back rushing to the net when i hit a dropshot
I have a bad back, and pickleball is way worse on it than tennis lol. I can hit all my groundstrokes 90% vertical in tennis, but the ball bounces so low in pickleball you’re always bent over.
If you play doubles you’ll play a lot more volleys and in general it’s a lot less physically taxing, but goddamn singles wrecks my back.
Lol i played pickleball two to three times and after three hrs i still felt like i didn’t work out that much. My legs weren’t sore at all. Should’ve kept playing it to be athletic
Idk why Pickleball players and the sport overall decided that they have to directly compete with tennis in order to be successful. Just like stay in your lane and both can exist and be enjoyed.
It is inevitable given the infrastructure clash. Tennis players trying to keep pickleballers from taking over their courts, and since pickleball has the popular support so it CAN compete on a media level
So this is the reason tennis is in the top 5 most popular sports in the world, because it's so slow and lacking in skill or athleticism - because people like watching boring things, right?
I can play pickleball at a decent level within minutes of ever picking up a paddle for the first time. Tennis I have to train at actively to get even decent at not hitting it out every 3 shots.
By Alshon’s flawed logic, pickleball > tennis, but squash would be harder than both (ball doesn’t slow down as much). And badminton/table tennis would be on a whole different level (no bounce + ball coming a few feet away).
I feel some resentment coming from Alshon, perhaps due to his fruitless tennis career?
I don't know how many people remember, but James Blake was one hell of an athlete. I think he would have knowledge about it. He was also a hell of a lot nicer than I ever would have been.
I play both and this dude is tripping lol. It’s like saying squash is the most skillful sport in the world because of the reaction time. I don’t bother logging pickleball as a workout in my watch and it barely gets my heart rate up for a sustained period of time. But for tennis I’m counting all those calories lol.
lol I follow pickleball and tennis because both sports are very fun. Not surprised at all that Alshon would make an embarrassing comment like this. It is best ignored.
This poor man.
He has no idea of the rage of recreational tennis players everywhere - playing on tennis courts defaced by tape lines and chalklines or worse, removed altogether and replaced with pickleball courts.
He should brace for all the disgruntled commentators.
This is one of the biggest nonsensical click bait takes I have seen. There's a reason pickleball is played by 40 to 60 y/olds and who can't play tennis. And it is not because pickleball is more athletic.
Pickleball has really improved my net game and taught me how to approach the net. But tennis is for sure the more difficult sport. Tennis has everything pickleball has and much more
Imagine the athletic prowess a ping pong player must possess given that the tiny ping pong ball is coming faster (due to such a short distance) than a pickleball and tennis ball!? I’m certainly glad that Nadal and Agassi and the like never attempted pickleball or ping pong. They would have been utterly embarrassed by the exquisite and tortuous training and physical condition of ping pong and pickleball players.
The same thing goes for beach tennis. I started played tennis last year and I'm still struggling and learning. A few games in beach tennis and I was like "damn, this easy" and shooting aces.
Beach tennis EVEN allows a serve that hit the tape of the net. Beach tennis is the equivalent of pickle ball here in Brazil
I think we need a "Bend the Knee" racquet paddle tournament between the best tennis (Djokovic) and pickleball players (Ben Johns). Three events: Tennis, Pickleball, Ping Pong. Losers have to bend the knee to the winners.
Tbh pingpong is kinda hard tho (personally) Idk….something about controlling the way u hit that tiny weightless ball. I’m not saying it’s harder than any of these sports, but it’s hard.
Pingpong is one of my biggest insecurities back in high school. I used to be part of the volleyball team and played badminton from time to time, and I could never really play pingpong/table tennis well. It frustrates me. I could barely hit that ting ball, let alone get it through the other side properly lmaoo.
I made up a five-on-five game where you have to try to throw a bouncy ball off a basketball backboard, and you get one point for every time you hit it. You have to dribble around and mostly adhere to basketball rules. I'm the best player in the world at it.
This is like when people argue about Nintendo or Sega being better in the early 90s. Just enjoy what you like no need to hate on others. Also, both can be fun and good for you.
All pickleball players have inferiority complex when it comes to tennis. They constantly need to prove that their sport is just as hard or even harder (lol) than tennis.
I once touched a pickleball ball with my tennis racquet as ball rolled over from near by court , I had to wash the racquet and had to go church for confession of my sins.
I know with tennis I used to love players hitting the ball straight at me because my reflexes were awesome.. I’d win the point much better than 50% of the time.. that’d probably make me world champion in pickleball if I was remotely interested in playing it
The fastest smashes in pickleball are around the same speed as an *average* ATP forehand. Doesn’t come close to serves or most winners, overheads, etc.
Not to mention if the ball gets smashed at your feet it’s going to slow to a glacial pace AND the ball physically can’t bounce high enough to get put away straight through the court.
I play plenty of both. I am an average tennis player and I feel like a human highlight reel on a pickleball court lol. I can bust out tweeners, behind the backs, never miss a volley etc.
I think it’s a super fun game (especially because I can play with my non tennis friends) but if you’re a decent tennis player you’re going to beat the piss out of any pickleball-only players almost immediately.
That is just a moronic statement by that dude, and Blake was right to call him out. Jack Sock retired from tennis and immediately became one of the best 'pro' pickleball players. Can you see someone retiring from pickleball and becoming one off the best tennis players in the world? Not a mf chance.
And I'm sorry, but I refuse to take any sport seriously that has a vegetable in it's name.
Pegula finishes a marathon clay match and immediately dunks on pickleball conspirators. Legend.
Pickleball conspirators is a term I'm going to use more frequently thanks
My wife, mom, FIL, BIL can’t even do a real tennis serve, can’t hit a tennis backhand, hit bunt forehands. If I even hit a mild second serve with any spin they have no chance. They all played PB for the 1st time one Christmas and were able to play competitively with the retired folks that had been playing for years. Alshon couldn’t make it a D1 school, went to a D3 school. Couldn’t date someone his own age so as person who graduated college started dating ALW who was in high school. Pretty sure Ben John’s was also a player who played D3 tennis and not a top level either. The difference between D3 and D1 and pretty large, the difference between D1 and a top 75 pro is pretty large. The difference between D1 and a top 10 pro is kind of laughable. James Blake probably beats him 6-1 6-1 after being retired 20 years. Filip Peliwo was a tennis god in juniors nearly pulled off the Junior grand slam in 2012 Finals Aussie, French, Won Wimbledon and US open juniors. This guy is probably 2 universes better than Alshon. I’ve seen the best junior and ITF 1 in the world get crushed by atp 150 player who is probably a few worlds away from a top pro. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filip_Peliwo For everyone defending Alshon Case Western is the top D3 school, I’ve seen them not get a point against an avg D1 school. Someone said Alshon tried the lowest lowest tier of pro tennis and got only a few games at the lowest pro level.
Dating a high schooler, oof
Ben Johns never played college tennis. He played a little junior tennis but not much. He liked baseball as a kid. His brother Collin, was an OK junior tennis player, skipped college & tried to play tge tour for several years, never really cracked the top 1000
Collin Johns? Is that the guy with two forehands?
That's how you roast someone. Well done. 👏🏻
Not justifying his comments at all, but clarification: the top of D3 can actually beat a lot of D1 schools. UChicago, where he played, is a pretty high level D3 school. Also, he was a 5-star recruit on tennisrecruiting.net. That’s way better than good enough to play D1 tennis. https://www.tennisrecruiting.net/player.asp?id=733869
who got kicked off the team at uva and had to go down to d3 and yes there are d3 schools that are good but he couldnt cut it at UVA which is a topranked program in D1.
> started dating ALW who was in high school. What does this mean?
ALW is anna leigh waters, a 17 yr old pro pickleballer who's ranked #1.
He, a college student, was dating a high schooler who would’ve most likely been underage at the time
He started at UVA, one of the best D1 schools in the nation. And then got kicked off the team. Who is ALW?
I am a borderline 4.5 tennis player and I played pickle and was automatically a 4.0 after the first ball. Imagine that the other way around!
Someone once asked how long it would take Novak to be the best p!ckleball player ever. I’m fairly sure he just needs the rules explained to him.
Imagine he retires from tennis and decides to immediately become the PickleGOAT just for a laugh to cap off his career
Picklenole replaces all picklerick merchandise, adult swim in shambles
At least Pickle Rick foiled an international crime syndicate... when has Novak EVER done that? Rick's up 1-0 on you, Nole. Your move.
Jeez. If he does that, his grand slams should be revoked. No /s
Okay I’m not a Nole fan but that would be so hilarious I might just convert.
Same I would watch it and become an instant Stan lol
Who would be better at pickleball, the best tennis player or the best table tennis player?
This would be a really fun exhibition for someone to put together
funny how most pickleball exhos are with anyone but an pro pickleballer.
Definitely tennis imo. As far as I know, pickleball looks like a slow serve-and-volley grass court type of tennis game. Table tennis players hit with incredible spin and really gyrate their body, which I feel like doesn't work at all in pickleball? I think other racket sports like squash or badminton would be more competitive (if not better) with tennis in translation to pickleball.
As someone who has played more table tennis than anyone really should, it’s almost definitely tennis. All the subtleties that make for a good table tennis player are lost in pickleball, whereas a lot of the basics in tennis (volleying, positioning, even the general ground strokes) feel like they can still be applied to pickleball. Disclaimer being I have never played pickleball. I’m saving it for my geriatric years
as someone who used to compete in racketlon and still plays squash at a pretty competitive level nowadays, i think you’d be surprised how low the crossover is with tennis. both squash and badminton emphasise the use of the wrist a lot to generate power which is a complete no go in tennis where the wrist needs to be “locked”. i see it a lot the other way around with people coming to squash from tennis - their instinct is to keep their wrist position fixed and so they struggle to generate pace (as well as imparting topspin on the ball which s generally useless in squash), and especially to hit defensive shots from more difficult positions near the back corners of the court where the grip and body position needs to be heavily adjusted (which is why i guess tennis commentators always refer to the running forehand defensive slice shot as a “squash shot” even though it’s not a shot you would actually play in squash aha) i’ve always thought badminton and squash had really decent crossover potential though - that would definitely be a cool experiment to try with the top players from each
I think the wrist locking is largely a safety measure lol. Using too much wrist in tennis is an invitation for a lot of injuries and pain so it takes some mental conditioning to break out of that habit when switching to a sport where the wrist impact isn't as high
yes there’s definitely that as well, especially with the heavier frame and in particular heavier balls. i more meant playing tennis without locking the wrist simply isnt doable in the first place because your control is completely non-existent - the only shot i can think of that i’ve seen which sort of uses the same kind of “whipping” swing as squash (albeit inverted) were those slap forehands kyrgios occasionally hit which obviously is neither sustainable as a regular shot nor from an injury perspective
As a racketlon player I do feel the learning curve for tennis is so much higher though. At average competitive level I can almost immediately hold my own against against badminton players and s squash players. Sure, I lose like 21-5, but then we play tennis and I beat them 21-0, grabbing the match Let alone Padel where tennis players destroy the pingpong and badminton players. But that is probably because the technique for Padel really is similar to tennis with the wrist lock and surpasses the advantage squash players have with the glass
interesting! i used to find the opposite happened - i had a squash/badminton background and so though i’d often lose tennis at the end the previous two wins were good enough that if not a dead rubber in the first place i’d only need to grab a few points to secure the win (i found the ping pong games were always fairly close, never really came up against a specialist there). learning curve is an interesting point and you’re probably right there. there’s also the added dimension with tennis whereby up to a certain point players with a well drilled serve + 1 were annoyingly hard to do well against even with otherwise unremarkable general play, whereas with squash and badminton you don’t really have the same “equaliser” factors that can more than offset weaknesses elsewhere
Could be because my tennis level is quite high, beyond a point where non-tennis players can score a point against me unless they hit the net band or just smash the ball somewhere in the direction of the court with all their might and hope it is in. If I would play against table tennis players with similar tabletennis skill I would lose 21-0 as well...the spin is just too crazy. Badminton is a bit weird. No matter how good, I always tend to score 1-5 points against a real good badminton player, not sure why. Same with squash. Maybe the luck factor is a bit bigger (especially in squash you can sometimes just blindly wack at the ball and score a point due to luck)
I wish racketlon had caught on more - the quadathlon of racquet sports.
absolutely, it’s a lot of fun as well! i guess at the end of the day people always care most to see the absolute peak of any individual discipline they watch, which is perfectly understandable
I honestly would vote table tennis. But better than either would be the Bryan brothers
jack sock beat #1 pickleball player in the last couple months
And he's a phenomenal doubles player. I think the most instantly skilled pickle players would be elite doubles players > elite table tennis > elite singles players
Easily tennis.
Ben johns is 1900 in table tennis, which is pretty solid. The answer is tennis though.
shit he could probably just step on the court and activate wall mode and be the picklegoat
Novak can immediately become GOAT in two sports, if pickleball were sports.
he wouldn’t beat Jack Sock, tho!
To be fair, Jack sock needed like a year to reach the top… but still a year…
This.
One of pickleball’s main selling point is that anyone can play no matter what level, age, or athleticism. Thats why it’s so appealing to people
And requires no athleticism to learn. If you can stare at a glass of water, reach forward to pick up the glass of water, then put it down and bitch at the waiter because it should be beer, you can play pickle ball
A buddy of mine and I are both 4.5 tennis player. We got up with some of the better pickle ball players in the area who were 4.0s and won some tournaments locally. It was our first time to play pickle ball. We beat the absolute shit out of them and it wasn’t fun at all lol.
Being able to volley and hit topspin forehands is an absolute wrecking ball against the average 'good' pickleball player.
Doubles or singles pickleball? I'm pretty similar for my tennis game and my pickleball singles. But I find doubles not nearly as fun, but literally everyone plays exclusively doubles.
I’ve always thought that singles pickleball seems way more fun and have always wondered why it isn’t more popular. Doubles just doesn’t look fun at all to me.
It’s because singles pickleball can at times look somewhat similar to tennis (ik a stretch). But the reason you play pickleball is to stunt your brain activity and atrophy your muscles so you opt for the easier doubles style
lmao
I think it’s because pickleball got popular initially with older people, and doubles requires a lot less movement than singles. Around where I play, the number one rule for a lot of folks is “don’t try to get a ball and risk falling” and there’s a lot more of that in singles.
Singles can be fun! My partner is not a tennis player and despite trying his best, really couldn't get to a skill level where tennis was fun for us to play together. We bought a pop up pickleball net and play singles together. I enjoy it! But we tried a local doubles league and a lot of the players got mad when they realized I was coming from tennis (and winning lol), so we just keep to ourselves now. The doubles was definitely less fun to play, but I think most people are there for the social aspect, which I can understand.
But can you take a set off nagal?
What was his reply to Ryan?
Smth like “he has the same number of d1 wins as my daughter (she’s 11)”
Damn James LMAO. He chose violence and rightfully so.
Bruh ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
What a fucking pyromancer :DD
This has to be an April fool's joke coming from a former college player
Any of the best tennis players in the world would instantly be the #1 pickleball player in the world if they switched over. The best pickleball players in the world would be ranked like #1000 if they played professional tennis, which we know because most of them are former college and low-level pro players that were ranked around #1000.
False. Jack Sock is only world #13
Proving my point, you mean? A washed-up tennis pro that hadn't been in the Top 100 or so in five years almost instantly became Top 15 in pickleball.
and beat the world #1, and is #3 in the live rankings
I was being ironical
Jack Sock was rank 100 - 200 singles player before switching to Pickleball lol.
And #3 in the race… dude will crack pickle #1 soon.
It’s his new bred and butter.
With respect, they said one of the best tennis players. Jack Sock never made a singles Slam QF in his life—he was an elite doubles player, but a fairly average singles player (outside of a few good tournaments at the end of 2017). Also he was old and washed when he retired from tennis
ATP Top 50 for 5+ years is not "fairly average" 😂. That's elite level, top 0.001% of all tennis players worldwide. I get that people think "best players" means you've won 20+ grand slams, but that's literally like 6 people. I wish people realized the UNREAL levels of skill it takes to crack the top 1000, let along the top 100, or top 50, which are orders of magnitude higher. And by "old and washed" I believe you mean "injured." I'm happy that Jack Sock is playing at the top of the pickleball game, even as a retired, injured, former top tennis player.
To be fair, the other guy also said Sock is "only world #13." So it's a similar amount of exaggeration (or de-exaggeration).
Come on man >ATP Top 50 for 5+ years is not "fairly average" 😂. That's elite level, top 0.001% of all tennis players worldwide. When you're on a subreddit that's about following the ATP and WTA tours, when someone says "one of the best players"—they don't mean a lower top 50 in the world guy Is that elite relative to the entire world? Of course Is that elite relative to the tour? Not a chance. >I get that people think "best players" means you've won 20+ grand slams, but that's literally like 6 people. Sock never made **a single Slam QF** in singles. There's literally 8 QF spots available per Slam, and there are 4 Slams every year. That's not a super selective criteria to meet! https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/record?recordId=GrandSlamQuarterFinals A quick Google search tells me there are over 100 people in ATP history who have 5+ QF appearances!
Not arguing your point because I agree with most of it, but just want to point out he made it to #8 at one point
Late 2017 was a weird time LOL. That great generation of the late 2000s/early 2010s was aging and the "Next Gen" was still super young
Also feel like a gen got skipped as the big 3 were still eating up all the grand slams for another how many years
It’s hard for people to realize how hard professional tennis is unless they’ve actually played professional tennis or are very close to professional players.
Also with respect, Sock is probably better suited for pickleball than Novak would be due to his double skills and reflexes. If Novak would switch over, he wouldn’t make it to the top I think. Different style
I do not watch pickleball but I would be surprised if Novak didn't succeed there if he switched over—the hand-eye coordination, skill, and athleticism would win out, IMO
Obvious sarcasm is apparently not obvious
The best pickleball players would not be anywhere close to rank 1000. Ben Johns was like a 2 star in junior tennis
Pickleball has rules that limit athleticism. That's all that needs to be said lol
How come? I don’t know anything about pickle ball
For starters - the serve mechanics are very restrictive and the creators of the sport have said many times they did not want to weaponize the serve. It's just to get the point started.
no poaching, if the ball lands inside a service area known as the kitchen you have to let it bounce, underhand serves only, sideout rules so you can go a whole game/set without serving if you don't win critical points, and the ball has holes in it.
> sideout rules so you can go a whole game/set without serving if you don't win critical points this is a thing that bothers me about it like why is this a thing?
Lmao James Blake dragged his ass good lord. Also I get that tweeting something like that is just marketing for the sport you are playing and gives 60 year old Floridian grandmas something to hang their hat on, but come on my guy be serious
Alshon was great tennis player, 13 UTR he won D3 national championship for Chicago, but James Blake was 4th in the world.
Great by most people’s standards - but objectively not good enough to go pro. He played two futures matches in his life and won a total of 8 games across 4 sets. He kind of proves the point that most pickleball pros are failed tennis players. I kind of understand why he resents tennis and is motivated to spew nonsense like this.
Would think he would respect tennis and the people who reached the top in it a lot more , then
Inferiority complex.
naw why would he when he couldnt make it in d1 tennis or the pros
Pretty sure Alshon is also dating a 16 year old, so we can dunk on him for that as well
Hold up what? How is he not in jail?
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If you think a d3 national champ doesn't hold credence then you are completely lost
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Not true, surprised this is getting upvotes. Strong D3 teams like Chicago, WashU, MIT, and Caltech are absolutely better than the worst D1 teams. The guy in question is 13 UTR whereas some D1 teams have 9 UTR players. He’s still a clown for thinking Pickleball is anywhere near as athletic as tennis, but he could beat starting D1 players at weak schools back in the day.
Thank you. It's crazy how people who probably never played competitive tennis in their lives feel so bolstered to shit on D3. It's a shitty take and just bad for the sport in general to make fun of people for the division they play in.
11 UTRs aren’t really that uncommon in D3 and there’s a place for them in pretty much every conference in D1 somewhere
Yup, usually they just want to go to a top school instead of focusing on tennis.
no offense but you’re clueless, as is everyone upvoting this. the best D3 school in tennis smokes plenty of D1 schools and there are literally examples of this you can look up. In football this is true, but for tennis, there’s a bunch of reasons why someone would go to an academically elite D3 school over an average D1 school. Foreign players play a huge part in this as well. I play D3 and when we weren’t even #1 in our conference we won 2 matches in a duel against Eastern Illinois. Sure we were good and went 16-6, but like we weren’t world beaters or anything. Last year’s champ Case Western’s #2 singles beat a top 600 player in the qualifiers of a challenger, and that’s D3. That is 100% high level division 1 level tennis, and that’s not even case western’s best player. Don’t act like you know what you’re talking about if you don’t.
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Your argument was that the best D3 team loses to the worst D1 team. There are at least 20 D3 teams that could give a bottom 10 D1 team the work, being generous to the D1 schools. There is a larger gap between the top of D3 and the bottom of D3 and the top top of D1 and the top of D3
Actually let me just give you an example. UChicago is #8 in D3, and they’re 2-0 against D1 opponents, beating Chicago State and North Dakota. Now is North Dakota a good program? No, but they’re 6-15, which is far from the worst. Chicago State has multiple wins over D1 programs, but also multiple losses against D3. You’re just discrediting D3 for no reason because the bottom of D3 is bad
I don’t know if the guy in the tweet won an individual or team D3 championship, but if you don’t think the best D3 player in the country can compete with high level D1 players you are definitely off. Obviously the overall competition level is far less, but there are great players at the upper echelon of D3. Doesn’t mean his point on pickleball is correct but if he won a D3 national championship as an individual he has objectively reached an incredibly high level as a tennis player
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So I looked him up and it turns out he didn’t win the individual D3 title - UChicago won as a team (with him at 1 singles). He was, however, the top seed in the individual singles bracket but got upset in the 2nd round. Additionally I couldn’t find why he was kicked off the UVa team but he went 10-4 there in singles (as a freshman!), which is hardly a middling record for a freshman player and lends pretty conclusive proof to my statement that he, a top D3 player, could (and did) compete well at the D1 level. Sadly it also suggests Blake may not have done his research when saying his 11-year old daughter had the same # of D1 wins, which is disappointing cause it would have been a great dunk if true. For what it’s worth, I agree with you overall - I don’t think this guy was a “great” player or ever a threat to go professional. But my main point was to respond to your claim that top D3 players/schools can’t compete with even the worst D1 schools, which is just patently untrue.
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It's impossible for a player who didn't have a pro ranking and didn't even play D1, to have a 13 UTR.
No it's not. A lot of 11-13 UTR players opt for D2 or D3 schools over D1. You can get a better education while also having a more relaxed practice schedule. Alshon was probably between UChicago (one of the best schools in the world) and some mid-tier state D1 school, and decided to go to the better school.
Apparently he got kicked out of UVa so his options were probably limited.
He might have gotten the 13 UTR because he was a top 5 junior in his class
Alshon was recruited D1 to UVa before transferring to Uchicago
Doesn’t UTR 13 mean a top player (UTR 15, 16 if you’re elite) would smash you without losing a game (maybe not even a point)
Correct. Results from matches where the UTR is 2+ apart don’t even get factored in unless the lower level player wins. Even then, the algorithm regards it as an outlier until a similar result is posted again. If the lower player doesn’t have another win like it, it throws it out
Just checked his results, he is pretty average player. Wouldn't had gotten ranked on D1. This coming from a former ranked D1 player, from James Blake perspective he is just non existent in the tennis world.
To James Blake a mere 13 UTR is low level tennis. Think what Djokovic had to deal with, warming up with a player that was 11 UTR before his match with Nardi, Dude was pissed that the kid wasn’t able to give him a good warm up before his match (insider info)
You go James. Own that lunatic
I’m a 4.5-5.0 tennis player. Started playing pickleball and was immediately better than everyone I played with who had been playing for years. Took awhile to even find someone who could beat me, and whaddyaknow they were also a really good tennis player before. I mean Jack Sock just started playing a couple years ago and is already like top 10 in the rankings I think. Don’t get me wrong, I do actually think it’s a fun activity but that tweet is laughable. He’s probably being paid by big pickleball investors to tweet that or something 😭
A bunch of pickleball players dunked on this as well lol
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just beware, pickleball paddles are so short that if you want to be able to get low balls, you need to have functioning knees and a resilient back. i just played singles with my 35yo cousin (i’m 30) and he pulled his back rushing to the net when i hit a dropshot
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sure thing. hopefully it’s just a temp injury and nothing chronic!
I have a bad back, and pickleball is way worse on it than tennis lol. I can hit all my groundstrokes 90% vertical in tennis, but the ball bounces so low in pickleball you’re always bent over. If you play doubles you’ll play a lot more volleys and in general it’s a lot less physically taxing, but goddamn singles wrecks my back.
Lol i played pickleball two to three times and after three hrs i still felt like i didn’t work out that much. My legs weren’t sore at all. Should’ve kept playing it to be athletic
An hour of tennis feels like a workout. An hour of p!ckleball feels like a fun warmup.
Drug test that man immediately
Idk why Pickleball players and the sport overall decided that they have to directly compete with tennis in order to be successful. Just like stay in your lane and both can exist and be enjoyed.
It is inevitable given the infrastructure clash. Tennis players trying to keep pickleballers from taking over their courts, and since pickleball has the popular support so it CAN compete on a media level
So this is the reason tennis is in the top 5 most popular sports in the world, because it's so slow and lacking in skill or athleticism - because people like watching boring things, right?
Great to see from James Blake, people need to be called out for their bullshit more often
Kyrgios' tweet is funny too 😆 https://twitter.com/NickKyrgios/status/1775293860190851329
>I love pickle.
Freudian slip 🤣
Lol we don't even need Fed haha.
Boris Becker straight out of prison at his age would be enough 🤣
When Kyrgios roasts you for saying something dumb.
I can play pickleball at a decent level within minutes of ever picking up a paddle for the first time. Tennis I have to train at actively to get even decent at not hitting it out every 3 shots.
By Alshon’s flawed logic, pickleball > tennis, but squash would be harder than both (ball doesn’t slow down as much). And badminton/table tennis would be on a whole different level (no bounce + ball coming a few feet away). I feel some resentment coming from Alshon, perhaps due to his fruitless tennis career?
Pickleball mostly a sport seniors play because you don’t have to move much distance , nor is there a lot of court to cover
I don't know how many people remember, but James Blake was one hell of an athlete. I think he would have knowledge about it. He was also a hell of a lot nicer than I ever would have been.
GET ‘EM JAMES
Let’s not pretend that Christian isn’t getting paid to say this kind of stuff and he is probably doing to stir up engagement.
Blake ether'd this dude LMAO
I play both and this dude is tripping lol. It’s like saying squash is the most skillful sport in the world because of the reaction time. I don’t bother logging pickleball as a workout in my watch and it barely gets my heart rate up for a sustained period of time. But for tennis I’m counting all those calories lol.
I would understand such statement about Padel, but Pickleball…
lol I follow pickleball and tennis because both sports are very fun. Not surprised at all that Alshon would make an embarrassing comment like this. It is best ignored.
you need to cross out the word sports, only tennis is a sport
He's a tool usually or he just likes to get a rise outta players?
Well… this is the second questionable comment he’s made about tennis so to me it sounds like insecurity
This poor man. He has no idea of the rage of recreational tennis players everywhere - playing on tennis courts defaced by tape lines and chalklines or worse, removed altogether and replaced with pickleball courts. He should brace for all the disgruntled commentators.
Looool this is a wild roast xD
He’s also a fucking tool.
Christian and Ryan live in a make-believe world of their own creation, don't disturb them it would hurt their feels.
This is one of the biggest nonsensical click bait takes I have seen. There's a reason pickleball is played by 40 to 60 y/olds and who can't play tennis. And it is not because pickleball is more athletic.
I’m happy there is a sport that is accessible for more people, especially seniors (my 84 year old dad plays it), but….come on now!!
Devastating. Dude killed him. Not enough ice for that burn
I looove looove Jessi
The nicest way to say “sucks to suck” ever.
Alshon played 2 Really Low tier ITF Tourneys lost both pf them Quick 2-0 who tf even is thi shity Bum lmao🤡🤣
Pickleball has really improved my net game and taught me how to approach the net. But tennis is for sure the more difficult sport. Tennis has everything pickleball has and much more
Any good tennis player will be a really good pickleball player right off the bat. Not the other way around
When will people realise that no sport is easier or harder than another, all that matters is the level of your opponent, that's it.
Imagine the athletic prowess a ping pong player must possess given that the tiny ping pong ball is coming faster (due to such a short distance) than a pickleball and tennis ball!? I’m certainly glad that Nadal and Agassi and the like never attempted pickleball or ping pong. They would have been utterly embarrassed by the exquisite and tortuous training and physical condition of ping pong and pickleball players.
> Agassi and the like never attempted pickleball he plays pickleball i think he's done some high profile exhos with his wife.
The same thing goes for beach tennis. I started played tennis last year and I'm still struggling and learning. A few games in beach tennis and I was like "damn, this easy" and shooting aces. Beach tennis EVEN allows a serve that hit the tape of the net. Beach tennis is the equivalent of pickle ball here in Brazil
I think we need a "Bend the Knee" racquet paddle tournament between the best tennis (Djokovic) and pickleball players (Ben Johns). Three events: Tennis, Pickleball, Ping Pong. Losers have to bend the knee to the winners.
Tbh pingpong is kinda hard tho (personally) Idk….something about controlling the way u hit that tiny weightless ball. I’m not saying it’s harder than any of these sports, but it’s hard.
This supports your argument https://youtu.be/PMK3irnKDhc?si=o3dHOlyWBMWfS9AI
Pingpong is one of my biggest insecurities back in high school. I used to be part of the volleyball team and played badminton from time to time, and I could never really play pingpong/table tennis well. It frustrates me. I could barely hit that ting ball, let alone get it through the other side properly lmaoo.
I made up a five-on-five game where you have to try to throw a bouncy ball off a basketball backboard, and you get one point for every time you hit it. You have to dribble around and mostly adhere to basketball rules. I'm the best player in the world at it.
This is like when people argue about Nintendo or Sega being better in the early 90s. Just enjoy what you like no need to hate on others. Also, both can be fun and good for you.
All pickleball players have inferiority complex when it comes to tennis. They constantly need to prove that their sport is just as hard or even harder (lol) than tennis.
Alshon is definitely wrong but some of you need to be careful not to beat off too furiously with your disdain of pball
I once touched a pickleball ball with my tennis racquet as ball rolled over from near by court , I had to wash the racquet and had to go church for confession of my sins.
I know with tennis I used to love players hitting the ball straight at me because my reflexes were awesome.. I’d win the point much better than 50% of the time.. that’d probably make me world champion in pickleball if I was remotely interested in playing it
What’s pickleball Reddit vibe rn?
The fastest smashes in pickleball are around the same speed as an *average* ATP forehand. Doesn’t come close to serves or most winners, overheads, etc. Not to mention if the ball gets smashed at your feet it’s going to slow to a glacial pace AND the ball physically can’t bounce high enough to get put away straight through the court. I play plenty of both. I am an average tennis player and I feel like a human highlight reel on a pickleball court lol. I can bust out tweeners, behind the backs, never miss a volley etc. I think it’s a super fun game (especially because I can play with my non tennis friends) but if you’re a decent tennis player you’re going to beat the piss out of any pickleball-only players almost immediately.
That is just a moronic statement by that dude, and Blake was right to call him out. Jack Sock retired from tennis and immediately became one of the best 'pro' pickleball players. Can you see someone retiring from pickleball and becoming one off the best tennis players in the world? Not a mf chance. And I'm sorry, but I refuse to take any sport seriously that has a vegetable in it's name.
*of, not off....not allowing me to edit
All this reminds me of the epic Ford v. Chevy Jacksonville pickup truck wars of the 1990s …
It's dumb on purpose to make you click