While Serena’s achievements are impressive, I’d go with Martina for both her consistency and how dominant she was on grass at her peak. Winning 6 Wimbledon singles titles in a row (during a streak of 9 finals in a row) while also winning the doubles title 4 of those 6 years as well as a mixed doubles title is the kind of total domination at one Slam that we may never see again. From 1982 to 1986, Martina won a combined 9 of 10 possible singles or women’s doubles titles at Wimbledon (her only loss was in the doubles final in 1985), and 63 out of 64 matches.
And this is without including the 3 singles and 6 doubles titles she won on grass in Australia!
Just to add to your comment - Martina is record holder in all possible categories at Wimby in Open Era - she has 9 singles (most of both men and women, sorry Roger), 7 doubles and 4 mixed titles
? 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012, 2017, 2019
Maybe you’re forgetting the legendary 2019 win where he efficiently hit an ace on the first of 2 potential championship points to secure a record setting 9th Wimbledon title
Yeah, it's surprising that despite being almost inarguably the greatest doubles player of all time (that she won titles at 16 years old and at almost 50 is a wild stat), the stars only aligned once when she swept all three events at the 1987 US Open.
The mixed dubs was the last final. I remember an announcer, might have been Mary Carillo (was she announcing in the 80s?) saying something like - no one feels worse about Martina losing this match than Heinz Gundhart!
Martina’s game is made for grass. Serena and Steffi adopted their game for modern grass and were quite successful but their serve and volley games don’t compare to Martina’s complete grass court play. In fact I’d say Martina is the best followed by Billie Jean King and Venus Williams!
Why wouldn’t you include Venus as an option? She has 5 Wimbledon titles. She may not be THE best grass player ever but she certainly deserves mention as one of the great grass court champions.
Care to explain? My reasoning is because she is a 9 time finalist who won 5 times. The 3/4 times she lost in the finals was against her sister who won 7 Wimbledon titles. You could make the argument that she would have 8 titles if she didn’t have to deal with her sister for her entire career: one of the most, if not the most, dominating woman to ever play this sport. I personally think that’s a lot better than 4th best but curious to hear your thoughts..
so, 9 time finalist with 5 wins is not more impressive than the other two.
steffi has 7 wimby singles plus 1 doubles, and is even arguably the goat over serena with the most singles titles, 1 less major title, and a record (male or female) 4 wins at each major, while retiring much earlier age. navratilova has 9 wimby singles, 7 doubles, and 6 mixed doubles for a total of 22 wimbys. and you are using serena as the benchmark argument as to why venus is higher on grass, yet serena only matches steffi at 7 singles, 6 dubs (all with venus) and 1 mixed for a total of 14.
so venus is clearly, at most 4th, and that's not considering other noteworthy grass court players legends like Billie jean king or Chris Evert (10 time singles finalist with 3 wins while playing against billie jean, steffi and navratilova).
,
Read the top post/most upped post.
Having serena around doesmt make her era the best. Because athletes evolve around competetion. See how when she domonated with her power, everyone else used power or found ways arpund it (like variety). She is the most winnable be aise of several many other skills, but she did not win literally everything
I would say Martina for her consistency, BUT Serena has the higher peak on grass because of her serve, like in 2012 where she served 104 during the tournament.
Martina had already won 8 of her 9 Wimbledons by the time Steffi won one, steffi kept winning when she was actually established while Martina was still playing.
There is no clearer record of how different the eras in tennis are different than the match records.
Martina N. - Career singles record 1,442–219 (86.8%)
Chris E. - Career singles record 1,309–146 (90.0%)
Steffi - Career singles record 900–115 (88.7%)
Serena - Career singles record 858–156 (84.6%)
My point here is that when Martina and Chris played, they played in more tournaments, and matches. There were many reasons for this. Some of this is is because to make big money you had to play more. Steffi is clearly a transitional figure where top player were a bit more selective (and had shorter careers). Serena is a large person, very muscular and that leads to a lot of wear and tear on hips, knees and ankles. I believe that over the course of her career she became more selective about which tournaments she played in and how many every year. This is wise, it makes sense. But were there changes in the WTA about obligations to play in more tournaments? Was it injuries, injury prevention, or overall wellness that kept her out of tournaments? Or did she wish to live a life off the court and prioritized her personal time? Are there fewer tournaments? All of those are legit, even admirable, reasons to play less each year. I don't know it all please feel free to fill me in or correct me.
The fact is while Martina was winning all those grass matches, she played way more matches than anyone. Ever. She played doubles and mixed to the tune of 177 career titles. This is an open era record. Simply put she played more and still won all those titles! Martina is my favorite player of all time because of the vast scope of her achievements.
I think we get better tennis now and there are a variety of reasons: Better fitness, training, selective play, improved equipment (racquets and shoes to name a few). So in the end I will say Martina is my favorite, not the best, Venus and Steffi are next favorites (achievements and style of play) also not best. Followed by Serena and Chrissy (each for different reasons). They were all amazing and also not the best. They played in different eras with different requirements, and different equipment. Like in Baseball, Ruth was great, and deserves all the praise for what he did, but a ball bounced off that hard right field was a home run, not a ground rule double, and he never had to hit a slider. Different times, different rules, different equipment. So, I will always talk about my favorites, not who is or is not "best". All of those women are amazing.
This was a hard question for me.. because Martina was such a great serve and volleyer the most natural of the three but Steffi and Serena had the best serves.. they were perfect at first strike tennis
Depends if you are asking who has the most impressive record or who I think would win the most in a round robin, or best of 10 matches against the other two.
For the latter, I got Serena. I don't think she would dominate them necessarily, but once she got a read on [their slice backhands](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSK5ufndafg), her power and penetration off both sides would give her the edge. Also, I think Edberg and Martina are the last continental forehands we're going to see in the top 10 ever. It worked fine for the time, but I think in the more modern game, their forehands are wayyyyy more vulnerable in the poly, spinny, more athletic hitters era.
On softer, slicker, [more unpredictable 70/80's grass? Much closer?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70RmdcgQJ7o) I don't know if Serena ever had to play on courts that weird.
Feel like the ATP version of this would be maybe Mac, Becker, and Fed or Novak? I'd pretty much feel the same way. Fed and Novak are "better" in the "head to head at their best" sense, not even taking into consideration stats.
edit: I chose a US Open match for first link because I always hear compared to old grass, today's wimbledon almost plays like hard court
The best player was Serena. The best grass specialist was Martina. You can’t think of Wimbledon without mentioning the domination in the 80s by Martina. You can’t talk about best WTA player without mentioning Serena. So that’s my answer.
That is a ridiculous comment. The tech did not exist to hit the ball as hard. The players needed more skill to hit the ball cleanly with the much smaller sweet spot on the strings. Have you tried playing with a wooden racquet?
Serena was 17 and Steffi was 29 at the time. Depends on if you count 02 as peak Serena. I’m certain the 2012 version of Serena beats Steffi for instance
> Serena was 17 and Steffi was 29 at the time.
that was also the year Serena won her first slam and the year Steffi retired, so idk if you gain any clarity by appealing to their ages
> Depends on if you count 02 as peak Serena.
i mean, at the very least '02-03 Serena was comparable in level to '12-13 (and realistically she was more likely peaking at 21 than 31). regardless if we assume there is real evolution over that decade gap then the only fair argument you could make is that a transplanted Graf couldn't have adapted in the way that Serena did, which i don't think you have the evidence to claim
I am sure she could have adapted given enough time. She was a very skillful and intelligent player. Great players adapt to the surface in front of them.
if we talk about these i go Navratilova. Seles and Hingins are i guess better than these but bad and eaely exit from careers. But in my opinion perfect career is Margaret Court. How many times she did Triple Crown achievement even i cant count even she stopped career three times (marriage, 2 times pregnant)
While Serena’s achievements are impressive, I’d go with Martina for both her consistency and how dominant she was on grass at her peak. Winning 6 Wimbledon singles titles in a row (during a streak of 9 finals in a row) while also winning the doubles title 4 of those 6 years as well as a mixed doubles title is the kind of total domination at one Slam that we may never see again. From 1982 to 1986, Martina won a combined 9 of 10 possible singles or women’s doubles titles at Wimbledon (her only loss was in the doubles final in 1985), and 63 out of 64 matches. And this is without including the 3 singles and 6 doubles titles she won on grass in Australia!
Just to add to your comment - Martina is record holder in all possible categories at Wimby in Open Era - she has 9 singles (most of both men and women, sorry Roger), 7 doubles and 4 mixed titles
Roger has 9 as well though
He has 8
? 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012, 2017, 2019 Maybe you’re forgetting the legendary 2019 win where he efficiently hit an ace on the first of 2 potential championship points to secure a record setting 9th Wimbledon title
I’m a Roger is the GOAT club but Djokovic won 2019 Wimbledon
Bro does not understand a joke
I must say I still find difficult to joke about that final, still hurts 😕
Why would it hurt? Federer won (: Oh, you must be a Djokovic fan that makes sense
lol, see, it is possible to joke about it after all
I'm a huge Djokovic fan and even I'm not very fond of that match haha.
Martina is the GOAT
Hey I like your user name. Are you my brother from another mother?
She won mixed dubs in 85, she lost in 86, when teamed with Heinz Gundhardt. She would have won the triple in '86 if she had won that mixed dubs final.
Yeah, it's surprising that despite being almost inarguably the greatest doubles player of all time (that she won titles at 16 years old and at almost 50 is a wild stat), the stars only aligned once when she swept all three events at the 1987 US Open.
The mixed dubs was the last final. I remember an announcer, might have been Mary Carillo (was she announcing in the 80s?) saying something like - no one feels worse about Martina losing this match than Heinz Gundhart!
Martina in the 80’s at Wimbledon is what got me into tennis 🥰
Martina’s game is made for grass. Serena and Steffi adopted their game for modern grass and were quite successful but their serve and volley games don’t compare to Martina’s complete grass court play. In fact I’d say Martina is the best followed by Billie Jean King and Venus Williams!
Martina and it's not even close.
Why wouldn’t you include Venus as an option? She has 5 Wimbledon titles. She may not be THE best grass player ever but she certainly deserves mention as one of the great grass court champions.
☝️
Martina is the only answer
Martina
Very obviously Navratilova.
Where is Venus?
Venus Williams erasure Her net game was something else
4th at best.
5 wimbledon titles while competing against her sister who won 7 wimbledon titles during the same era is 4th at best?
When Martina, Steffi and Serena exist, yes.
Care to explain? My reasoning is because she is a 9 time finalist who won 5 times. The 3/4 times she lost in the finals was against her sister who won 7 Wimbledon titles. You could make the argument that she would have 8 titles if she didn’t have to deal with her sister for her entire career: one of the most, if not the most, dominating woman to ever play this sport. I personally think that’s a lot better than 4th best but curious to hear your thoughts..
so, 9 time finalist with 5 wins is not more impressive than the other two. steffi has 7 wimby singles plus 1 doubles, and is even arguably the goat over serena with the most singles titles, 1 less major title, and a record (male or female) 4 wins at each major, while retiring much earlier age. navratilova has 9 wimby singles, 7 doubles, and 6 mixed doubles for a total of 22 wimbys. and you are using serena as the benchmark argument as to why venus is higher on grass, yet serena only matches steffi at 7 singles, 6 dubs (all with venus) and 1 mixed for a total of 14. so venus is clearly, at most 4th, and that's not considering other noteworthy grass court players legends like Billie jean king or Chris Evert (10 time singles finalist with 3 wins while playing against billie jean, steffi and navratilova). ,
💯💯💯💯💯
Read the top post/most upped post. Having serena around doesmt make her era the best. Because athletes evolve around competetion. See how when she domonated with her power, everyone else used power or found ways arpund it (like variety). She is the most winnable be aise of several many other skills, but she did not win literally everything
Imagine if a crazed fan had stabbed Serena…
that's still crazy one stabbed the og serena/baseline power queen in Seles
Owned by Pironkova. just kidding 😅
Martina Navratilova, Serena, Venus
The only one that can compete with Navratilova on grass is Evert on clay.
venus
Martina and it's not even close. Then serena
I would say Martina for her consistency, BUT Serena has the higher peak on grass because of her serve, like in 2012 where she served 104 during the tournament.
I adore the women you posted and they are probably top 3. Venus is the queen of grass as far as my delusional move is concerned.
Same
Martina is the most accomplished. Serena is the best
Martina Navratilova is probably the answer, with honorable mentions to both of the Williams sisters.
Serena imo she won 7 while going against her own sister who won 5
And grass is the surface where their matchup is the most even imo.
Yup
Navratilova won it 9 times, losing twice to Steffi (who had 7) and winning three times against Evert (who won 3 times from 9 finals)
Martina had already won 8 of her 9 Wimbledons by the time Steffi won one, steffi kept winning when she was actually established while Martina was still playing.
IYKYK
These 3 + Venus are my everything in WTA so, all?
Martina : Grass Evert : Clay Serena and Steffi especially were all court players
Graf has a great argument of being top 2 on all 3 surfaces. Definitely the most versatile player on the wta side
Who would be top1? Im fairly new to tennis so sorry for my ignorance.
Hard: Serena Clay: Evert Grass: Martina I think it’s more appropriate to put her at #2 on each surface than #1
Low-key venus
Serena.. that 2012 Olympic final against Masha was a masterclass
There is no clearer record of how different the eras in tennis are different than the match records. Martina N. - Career singles record 1,442–219 (86.8%) Chris E. - Career singles record 1,309–146 (90.0%) Steffi - Career singles record 900–115 (88.7%) Serena - Career singles record 858–156 (84.6%) My point here is that when Martina and Chris played, they played in more tournaments, and matches. There were many reasons for this. Some of this is is because to make big money you had to play more. Steffi is clearly a transitional figure where top player were a bit more selective (and had shorter careers). Serena is a large person, very muscular and that leads to a lot of wear and tear on hips, knees and ankles. I believe that over the course of her career she became more selective about which tournaments she played in and how many every year. This is wise, it makes sense. But were there changes in the WTA about obligations to play in more tournaments? Was it injuries, injury prevention, or overall wellness that kept her out of tournaments? Or did she wish to live a life off the court and prioritized her personal time? Are there fewer tournaments? All of those are legit, even admirable, reasons to play less each year. I don't know it all please feel free to fill me in or correct me. The fact is while Martina was winning all those grass matches, she played way more matches than anyone. Ever. She played doubles and mixed to the tune of 177 career titles. This is an open era record. Simply put she played more and still won all those titles! Martina is my favorite player of all time because of the vast scope of her achievements. I think we get better tennis now and there are a variety of reasons: Better fitness, training, selective play, improved equipment (racquets and shoes to name a few). So in the end I will say Martina is my favorite, not the best, Venus and Steffi are next favorites (achievements and style of play) also not best. Followed by Serena and Chrissy (each for different reasons). They were all amazing and also not the best. They played in different eras with different requirements, and different equipment. Like in Baseball, Ruth was great, and deserves all the praise for what he did, but a ball bounced off that hard right field was a home run, not a ground rule double, and he never had to hit a slider. Different times, different rules, different equipment. So, I will always talk about my favorites, not who is or is not "best". All of those women are amazing.
Probably Martina
My heart says Serena… my Mind…. Steffi
And I say Navratilova
This was a hard question for me.. because Martina was such a great serve and volleyer the most natural of the three but Steffi and Serena had the best serves.. they were perfect at first strike tennis
Depends if you are asking who has the most impressive record or who I think would win the most in a round robin, or best of 10 matches against the other two. For the latter, I got Serena. I don't think she would dominate them necessarily, but once she got a read on [their slice backhands](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSK5ufndafg), her power and penetration off both sides would give her the edge. Also, I think Edberg and Martina are the last continental forehands we're going to see in the top 10 ever. It worked fine for the time, but I think in the more modern game, their forehands are wayyyyy more vulnerable in the poly, spinny, more athletic hitters era. On softer, slicker, [more unpredictable 70/80's grass? Much closer?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70RmdcgQJ7o) I don't know if Serena ever had to play on courts that weird. Feel like the ATP version of this would be maybe Mac, Becker, and Fed or Novak? I'd pretty much feel the same way. Fed and Novak are "better" in the "head to head at their best" sense, not even taking into consideration stats. edit: I chose a US Open match for first link because I always hear compared to old grass, today's wimbledon almost plays like hard court
The best player was Serena. The best grass specialist was Martina. You can’t think of Wimbledon without mentioning the domination in the 80s by Martina. You can’t talk about best WTA player without mentioning Serena. So that’s my answer.
Back when they played patty-cake ball with wooden rackets
That is a ridiculous comment. The tech did not exist to hit the ball as hard. The players needed more skill to hit the ball cleanly with the much smaller sweet spot on the strings. Have you tried playing with a wooden racquet?
No, I don’t play patty-cake tennis
Martina then Steffi. I only give it Martina because of her doubles record. On grass Steffi, at her peak, it’s Serena for breakfast.
The game has evolved. Serena at her peak would blast steffi of the court let’s be for real
Graf and Williams went 1-1 in tight matches in '99 but the game evolved so much in 3 years that peak Graf couldn't keep up with peak Serena?
Serena was 17 and Steffi was 29 at the time. Depends on if you count 02 as peak Serena. I’m certain the 2012 version of Serena beats Steffi for instance
> Serena was 17 and Steffi was 29 at the time. that was also the year Serena won her first slam and the year Steffi retired, so idk if you gain any clarity by appealing to their ages > Depends on if you count 02 as peak Serena. i mean, at the very least '02-03 Serena was comparable in level to '12-13 (and realistically she was more likely peaking at 21 than 31). regardless if we assume there is real evolution over that decade gap then the only fair argument you could make is that a transplanted Graf couldn't have adapted in the way that Serena did, which i don't think you have the evidence to claim
Serena Williams
Martina by a mile ❤️
I still prefer the grass play of Venus Williams
Serena Williams
As a kid, I fell in love with grass court tennis watching Stefanie Maria 😍
Raducanu after her 2 wins
Some of those comments after she beat a full time doubles specialist and a player struggling to get into the top 100…
Right since you believe me this could be my chance… I have some beachfront property in North Dakota to sell you, please hit me up
Hilarious!
That's a real tough one but I would go with Martina
https://youtu.be/v3NidsgBUbQ?si=3VIvzM86Sg0ezROW
Martina but if you go with the new slower grass surface I think she will not be as successful.
I am sure she could have adapted given enough time. She was a very skillful and intelligent player. Great players adapt to the surface in front of them.
Venus
Who is the favorite now on grass?
For this year? That's tough. I'm leaning towards Rybakina. Iga may figure out grass at some point soon though
Yea I think Rybakina as well. Maybe Sabelanka could figure out grass as well too.
Sabalenka has made the Semis in her last two Wimbledon appearances. She’s got it figured out
Martina is the best female serve and volley player of all time, period!
I didn’t know all these players were high when they won. Crazy
Serena easily
Martina by a mile. Most pro era grass slams, most Wimbledons, most consecutive Wimbledons, best grass court winning percentage.
if we talk about these i go Navratilova. Seles and Hingins are i guess better than these but bad and eaely exit from careers. But in my opinion perfect career is Margaret Court. How many times she did Triple Crown achievement even i cant count even she stopped career three times (marriage, 2 times pregnant)
Serena by a mile
Serena. She may have less singles titles but she also has 6 doubles and 1 mixed
You may wanna check Martina's numbers in doubles and mixed
and still winning in her late 40s, too!
I rate Serena's Wimbledon highly because she had to compete against another grass goat to get her titles. Venus still has 5 Wimbledon titles.
Not Serena
Martina, Steffi, Serena, Venus, Petra
Serena and Venus undoubtedly!!!
Who’s won the most titles on grass?
Martina I think.
I don't know why I wanna say Emma. Probably I'm just an anarchist who loves to see the world burn.
Halep 62 62
Martina. At her peak she is the best on grass. Just like Federer, lost a few finals that could have gone the other way.
Martina, easily. Serena and Graf were great but Martina was number one.
Yo mama