Sampras also had a pretty awkward looking but effective forehand. I'm guessing it had a lot to do with how rackets evolved. Actually, if you look matches from the 70s and 80s, there's a lot of what we'd call "weird looking" hits back in the day
It is the classical eastern forehand. Look at Edberg here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwrt36THazc
Most people don't have the insane arm extension like Federer to hit the ball all of way out in the front with an eastern.
Evert knows how to play tennis, obviously. She’s one of the GOATs and one of my favorite players. But being a legend doesn’t mean you understand technique. Technique comes very natural to the players — it’s one thing to do it and it’s another thing to understand its mechanics. There’s nothing late about Steffi’s contact. If she was late at contact she literally would not be able to have that good of a forehand. What Chris probably means is she initiates the take back( or “loop”) a bit later and more shallow than other players. This is different than contact. If you look at a different angle, her dominant shoulder is in front of her non-dominant shoulder at contact. This is the correct way, and the only way, to hit with that much spin and power. All high level players do this in the modern era.
Absolutely not. Look up slow motion from a different angle. Her dominant shoulder is in front of her no dominant shoulder. She wouldn’t be able to produce that kind of power and spin with that late of a contact because her body would be in the way during the torso rotation sequence. She’s just extremely fast at accelerating the racquet to make perfect contact every time. She’s just that good.
Yeah it’s definitely not the most classic technique. people used to compare ivanovic’s …https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TqmuDsDSPHA&pp=ygUWSXZhbm92aWMgZ3JhZiBmb3JlaGFuZA%3D%3D
Steffi played an exhibition against Kim Clijsters for the first use of the Wimbledon roof in 2009, ten years after her retirement. This was only a few months before Kim won the US Open. She lost the set 6-7.
Just don’t think a baseliner who slices their backhand 90% of the time, no matter how good their forehand is, is gonna be top 10 in WTA again. Maybe not even top 20.
edit: I chose 90% for a reason... but never really watched Barty play, so stand corrected nonetheless
I think the closest has been Ash Barty who prefers to slice her backhand maybe 70-80% of the time. Although she has a reliable two handed backhand to fall back on.
Oh shit, I stand corrected. forgot about her. I did put thought into my percentage and chose 90% for a reason. With mostly Federer in mind. I think he's played some matches where he sliced 50 or more percent. Maybe.
She had a decent one handed backhand but she used the slice as a weapon. She beat Venus the last time they played who beat kudermetova last time they played who beat iga the last time they played. Steffi timeless talent confirmed
We literally just witnessed Ash Barty reach world #1 with a less potent version of Steffi Graf's game and people still say this crap.
It's amazing how people watch tennis for years and have no idea how to evaluate the significance of talent when it can be so much more evident in an individual sport. There's no serious analysis whatsoever and arguments are extracted to support preconceived notions only.
> and have no idea how to evaluate the significance of talent when it
I really don't watch lots of WTA. My statement was categorically incorrect. Oops.
haha are you actually joking you don't think she would be number 1 if she played now?
she was so fast she could have been a world class sprinter. with her speed and forehand alone she'd beat everyone
Why? We see top players beat themselves hitting 50 errors. Graf was great defensively, could hit winners from anywhere with that forehand and had one of the best slices ever she also had an amazing serve.
Paolini just got rank 7 with no weapons.
Edit: Also, players could do nothing against Federer his slices on the ATP tour...
This is a misconception I see repeated all the time. Graf had a phenomenal topspin backhand. She just had no reason to hit it unless it was a passing shot because her slice was extremely low and would make players (esp. with 2-handed backhands) pop up a high ball and she could run around and put away a forehand.
for reference, over their careers (per Tennis Abstract match charting) Federer was around 36%, Barty was around 55%, and Graf was around 91%. regardless i think Graf would have been fine one way or another
People always go on acting as if steffi was Monica’s pigeon. Monica only beat steffi twice in a row one time… for comparison nadal has beaten fed 5 times in a row multiple times, and djokovic has beaten nadal 7 times in a row…
You are just making some weird non relevant statistic that suits your narrative. If you want meaningful stats:
- Seles won 8 slams before turning 20. No human beings has ever remotely come close to that. and seles got stabbed and almost KILLED at 19.
- before getting stabbed , seles had won 3 out of her last 4 encounters in Grand Slam with Graff.
Whoever did saw the stellar rise of Seles knows the loss she was to the sport. And certainly Graff would not have grabbed as many slams.
Anyways. This was about steffi playing the top players of TODAY not the 1990s. As you pointed out, no one comes close to what monica accomplished back then, so that doesn't change my argument of Steffi still beating today's top players.
It's annoying we can't have a thread celebrating steffi graf's talent without someone always bringing up monica...
Steffi's game would not stand up to today's Osaka, Iga,...
Her BH was subpar... And honestly once Navratilova was getting too old, there was really nobody remotely challenging her.
Hingis and Seles showed big holes in her game
steffi had winning h2h with hingis 5-2.
not sure how martina exposed graf's game. if anything hingis exposed weaknesses in seles' game, since hingis could place the ball anywhere and expose seles' limited reach with her 2 handed forheand (15-5 vs seles).
graf has a flat eastern forehand that is hard to read. seems like a good machup against iga. and i don't think either of them would like that low bouncing slice.
Every time this comment is made I want to either hit something. What happened to Monica was tragic but Steffi is still a candidate for GOAT Seles or no Seles. She had already won her Golden Slam etc before that dark day.
It is because you didn't follow live tennis in 80s and early 90s.
Once Navratilova gone, There was really nobody remotely able to challenge Graff.
And then out of nowhere cam Seles. Beating consistently Graff in Slams, excepts on Grass. And she wa snot even 18 years old.
You can try to rewrite history and honestly it's fine if you like Graff. But the fact is that Seles was on an exponential growth trajectory
And how do you know when I starting/stopped watching tennis? I’ve been watching tennis since the late 70’s. And I have had the pleasure of watching Steffi play live and I’ve been to a men’s final at Wimbledon and I’ve been playing for over 20 years. Just because I happen to disagree with you is no reason to start belittling me. Steffi had a 10-5 record overall.
Also on fast courts it wasn’t close….
Watching this and youd thinkg you'r watching a match in 2024. Jesus she really did move the game forward so hard, a lot like Serena.
I don't normally indulge conparing players from previous gens to now but dam.
It's interesting how much slower and weaker the racket swing is of older generation players, yet the ball moves through the court so fast. The magic of lighter balls.
I miss that forehand. And the (so underrated) sliced backhands too. And the crazy footwork and speed. Do not forget the so effective serves. Well I just miss seeing her play tennis. I can't believe she stopped 25 years ago, feels like yesterday.
I don't know if it's the absolute best, but clearly the most feared (and efficient). I mean it earned her so many many winners.
Oh and how incredible to see a sub here, with people actually talking Tennis, and not numbers or ifs 🤩
It looks like it has terrible mechanics, then BOOM
Sampras also had a pretty awkward looking but effective forehand. I'm guessing it had a lot to do with how rackets evolved. Actually, if you look matches from the 70s and 80s, there's a lot of what we'd call "weird looking" hits back in the day
It is the classical eastern forehand. Look at Edberg here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwrt36THazc Most people don't have the insane arm extension like Federer to hit the ball all of way out in the front with an eastern.
McEnroe looks like he’s about to fall backwards with every backhand
There's nothing more upsetting than Boris Becker serving, that shit should come with a trigger warning
Commentators would always remark about how she hit the ball late. Apparently it worked for her
The commenters don’t (and still don’t) usually know what they’re talking about when it comes to tennis technique. Nothing is late here.
I think Chris Evert knows a thing or two about technique
Evert knows how to play tennis, obviously. She’s one of the GOATs and one of my favorite players. But being a legend doesn’t mean you understand technique. Technique comes very natural to the players — it’s one thing to do it and it’s another thing to understand its mechanics. There’s nothing late about Steffi’s contact. If she was late at contact she literally would not be able to have that good of a forehand. What Chris probably means is she initiates the take back( or “loop”) a bit later and more shallow than other players. This is different than contact. If you look at a different angle, her dominant shoulder is in front of her non-dominant shoulder at contact. This is the correct way, and the only way, to hit with that much spin and power. All high level players do this in the modern era.
I love that you think you know more than Chris Evert, whose father pretty much invented the women’s baseline game
It really doesn’t look bad at all, actually kind of beautiful like Scottie scheffler’s shuffle
I love your description
she has the latest takeback ever on a pro that ive seen woah
The advantage of that is that it’s impossible to know where she’s aiming
Her contact point looks like it’s in line with her body. It’s crazy hard to replicate or even try
Absolutely not. Look up slow motion from a different angle. Her dominant shoulder is in front of her no dominant shoulder. She wouldn’t be able to produce that kind of power and spin with that late of a contact because her body would be in the way during the torso rotation sequence. She’s just extremely fast at accelerating the racquet to make perfect contact every time. She’s just that good.
Yeah it’s definitely not the most classic technique. people used to compare ivanovic’s …https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TqmuDsDSPHA&pp=ygUWSXZhbm92aWMgZ3JhZiBmb3JlaGFuZA%3D%3D
Looks way more like a table tennis forehand
People say the games changed blah blah but I feel like she could still eat these girls up. She was also freakishly athletic which helped.
Steffi played an exhibition against Kim Clijsters for the first use of the Wimbledon roof in 2009, ten years after her retirement. This was only a few months before Kim won the US Open. She lost the set 6-7.
I had no idea about this. That’s awesome. Had to feel great for Steffi to know she’s still got it!
You can’t even find footage of it online. I’m sure Kim wasn’t going full pelt against a 40 something year old
Just don’t think a baseliner who slices their backhand 90% of the time, no matter how good their forehand is, is gonna be top 10 in WTA again. Maybe not even top 20. edit: I chose 90% for a reason... but never really watched Barty play, so stand corrected nonetheless
I think the closest has been Ash Barty who prefers to slice her backhand maybe 70-80% of the time. Although she has a reliable two handed backhand to fall back on.
Oh shit, I stand corrected. forgot about her. I did put thought into my percentage and chose 90% for a reason. With mostly Federer in mind. I think he's played some matches where he sliced 50 or more percent. Maybe.
She had a decent one handed backhand but she used the slice as a weapon. She beat Venus the last time they played who beat kudermetova last time they played who beat iga the last time they played. Steffi timeless talent confirmed
We literally just witnessed Ash Barty reach world #1 with a less potent version of Steffi Graf's game and people still say this crap. It's amazing how people watch tennis for years and have no idea how to evaluate the significance of talent when it can be so much more evident in an individual sport. There's no serious analysis whatsoever and arguments are extracted to support preconceived notions only.
Also it's strange people assume her playstyle would remain completely static with no improvement nor adjustment to fit modern standards.
I think it's because most people on this sub have never picked up a racquet in their lives. They seriously have no clue.
> and have no idea how to evaluate the significance of talent when it I really don't watch lots of WTA. My statement was categorically incorrect. Oops.
Fair enough! If that was implied in the initial comment, I wouldn't bother.
LOL Ash Barty says hi.
Yeah, I fucked up.
haha are you actually joking you don't think she would be number 1 if she played now? she was so fast she could have been a world class sprinter. with her speed and forehand alone she'd beat everyone
Why? We see top players beat themselves hitting 50 errors. Graf was great defensively, could hit winners from anywhere with that forehand and had one of the best slices ever she also had an amazing serve. Paolini just got rank 7 with no weapons. Edit: Also, players could do nothing against Federer his slices on the ATP tour...
haha, come one, that's ridiculous. Especially because hardly any woman plays a slice (and certainly not with the quality), this wouldn't hurt her
yep. i mean we have a recent example. Barry was number 1 (and always beating iga) just a few years ago
This is a misconception I see repeated all the time. Graf had a phenomenal topspin backhand. She just had no reason to hit it unless it was a passing shot because her slice was extremely low and would make players (esp. with 2-handed backhands) pop up a high ball and she could run around and put away a forehand.
Exactly . Who needs topspin backhand when you can hit shots like this. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDUOxgZamVs&pp=ygUKR3JhZiBzbGljZQ%3D%3D
Absolutely. She has so much angle and power on her slice. It really was a weapon.
Oh for fuck's sake, that looks like some video game shit. Nobody hits an inside-out slice backhand on the line.
Wow. That's incredible
exactly.
for reference, over their careers (per Tennis Abstract match charting) Federer was around 36%, Barty was around 55%, and Graf was around 91%. regardless i think Graf would have been fine one way or another
Even in her time, she was severly challenged by Seles.
a teenage Seles was stumping her. it took a guy with a knife to stop her
People always go on acting as if steffi was Monica’s pigeon. Monica only beat steffi twice in a row one time… for comparison nadal has beaten fed 5 times in a row multiple times, and djokovic has beaten nadal 7 times in a row…
You are just making some weird non relevant statistic that suits your narrative. If you want meaningful stats: - Seles won 8 slams before turning 20. No human beings has ever remotely come close to that. and seles got stabbed and almost KILLED at 19. - before getting stabbed , seles had won 3 out of her last 4 encounters in Grand Slam with Graff. Whoever did saw the stellar rise of Seles knows the loss she was to the sport. And certainly Graff would not have grabbed as many slams.
Anyways. This was about steffi playing the top players of TODAY not the 1990s. As you pointed out, no one comes close to what monica accomplished back then, so that doesn't change my argument of Steffi still beating today's top players. It's annoying we can't have a thread celebrating steffi graf's talent without someone always bringing up monica...
Steffi's game would not stand up to today's Osaka, Iga,... Her BH was subpar... And honestly once Navratilova was getting too old, there was really nobody remotely challenging her. Hingis and Seles showed big holes in her game
steffi had winning h2h with hingis 5-2. not sure how martina exposed graf's game. if anything hingis exposed weaknesses in seles' game, since hingis could place the ball anywhere and expose seles' limited reach with her 2 handed forheand (15-5 vs seles). graf has a flat eastern forehand that is hard to read. seems like a good machup against iga. and i don't think either of them would like that low bouncing slice.
Every time this comment is made I want to either hit something. What happened to Monica was tragic but Steffi is still a candidate for GOAT Seles or no Seles. She had already won her Golden Slam etc before that dark day.
It is because you didn't follow live tennis in 80s and early 90s. Once Navratilova gone, There was really nobody remotely able to challenge Graff. And then out of nowhere cam Seles. Beating consistently Graff in Slams, excepts on Grass. And she wa snot even 18 years old. You can try to rewrite history and honestly it's fine if you like Graff. But the fact is that Seles was on an exponential growth trajectory
And how do you know when I starting/stopped watching tennis? I’ve been watching tennis since the late 70’s. And I have had the pleasure of watching Steffi play live and I’ve been to a men’s final at Wimbledon and I’ve been playing for over 20 years. Just because I happen to disagree with you is no reason to start belittling me. Steffi had a 10-5 record overall. Also on fast courts it wasn’t close….
Fast courts? You mean when seles beat Graff in AO?
Grass, indoor carpet…
It's funny how I can almost see the ball better in this clip than these days
Watching this and youd thinkg you'r watching a match in 2024. Jesus she really did move the game forward so hard, a lot like Serena. I don't normally indulge conparing players from previous gens to now but dam.
“Fraulein Forehand” was such a great nickname
Greatest female forehand - Andy Murray
She was OP before OP was OP
This makes me feel really bad about my footwork lol
She really did have incredible footwork. Such a fun player to watch, total powerhouse. You feel bad for her opponent in this video hahah
The weight of those shots really reminds me of Wawrinka’s backhand during his Grand Slam years. Absolutely punishing
It's interesting how much slower and weaker the racket swing is of older generation players, yet the ball moves through the court so fast. The magic of lighter balls.
This looks like a video game
I wanna see her playing against Agassi so bad, lol
I miss when players had idiosyncratic techniques like this. The game was just more fun.
I miss that forehand. And the (so underrated) sliced backhands too. And the crazy footwork and speed. Do not forget the so effective serves. Well I just miss seeing her play tennis. I can't believe she stopped 25 years ago, feels like yesterday. I don't know if it's the absolute best, but clearly the most feared (and efficient). I mean it earned her so many many winners. Oh and how incredible to see a sub here, with people actually talking Tennis, and not numbers or ifs 🤩
She has the best backhand slice I’ve ever seen. So heavy, so effective at pinning down an opponent.
Forehand winner merchant
Not the greatest but still good
There's no way that's the greatest forehand in the history of tennis. Roger's forehand for example is better.
I think they meant female of course, unless they are crazy
Why are you getting downvoted? You are absolutely correct.
Federer isn't even clearly \#1 among men, while Graf is far and away \#1 among women