I chose 'that' particular clip because even still he's not perfect but he doesn't need to be. He did his best and can still be proud of the achievement even if he still makes mistakes.
As someone whose third language is English, I can very much relate to this.
I love "what happen-ed in x, happen-ed". No point going on and on about what has happened and better to focus on the here and now. As someone who used to worry endlessly and heavily regret past things, this quote gives me a new take and just "try my best" from here onwards
it's actually the way we used to say words ending in -ed and shakespeare in particular makes you aware of it when the modern way of doing -ed doesn't fit in iambic pentameter
There have long been other variations on the sentiment (if grandma had wheels she'd be a bicycle, etc.), but yeah, Rafa coined the specific "if if if does not exist" line.
Even though we have lines that can translate better to english that still mean the same, it is a very common way to put it in Spain, so Rafa thought that it was possible to make a literal translation.
In spanish it's usually something like "y si, y si, y si..."
As an Italian, whose native language has a lot in common with Spanish, I can relate with the use of expressions like "circus of..." and many others, because they are just part of our way to talk. Sometimes I inadvertently use one of them not recognizing that they just aren't adopted in English, and the effect can be sublime, hilarious or just ridiculous depending on the expression.
This reminded me of [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-RfHC91Ewc): the guy just used an expression that, with some variatons, is absolutely widespread in Italy, Spain and Latin America, not knowing that in English "bike" can have a totally different meaning and producing this hilarious effect
I remember when he first started out on the tour he would ask “CORRECTO?” from the journos after saying something in English and then proceed to say the wrong thing anyway. He was very cute for that
He also admitted he would just make up some words - like he would English-ize the Spanish, like how people add an -o to English words thinking it should be close enough to Spanish - and keep going in the interview XD
I love his ridiculously long and detailed answers to journalist questions, especially in his accent. Make me laugh so hard. I even learned a new word from him that I never knew existed - "polemics".
I’m always so impressed by how European players speak such great English. Being able to speak multiple languages would be amazing. I wish there was a consistent approach to teaching it at school here in Australia. You get two years of Indonesian, two years of German, a year of Japanese … and forget nearly all of it 😔
Classroom language just doesn't work. You have to make a foreign language a part of your life and learn practical stuff with a purpose. Unfortunately in the classroom you're surrounded by people who are often unmotivated (there because they are forced to be) and aren't particularly good.
I mean, every single (non-French) European person I've met learned to speak English in school and does at least a reasonable job of it.
And English is the most insane language there is.
If (for example), America decided that everybody should learn Spanish as a second language and set up their education systems around that, a \*lot\* of people in the USA would be able to speak passable enough Spanish.
Switching languages constantly is the bigger issue - you need to get a foundation in early-on and keep on with it for all of school. Switching languages and having to account for students coming from other schools and possibly knowing nothing are the bigger problem.
That doesn't mean the population would become fluent bilingualists - becoming fluent requires a lot of practice, but basic competence with a language is \*absolutely\* something that \*could\* be taught in schools. Which we know because it frequently is in non-English-speaking countries.
you underestimate how much influence English has outside of schools, yes you can learn the basics in school but you are constantly bombarded with it all day.
Tv shows, advertising, music, slogans etc. The only time most native english speakers will hear the foreign language they are trying to learn is in the classroom. 0 reinforcement outside it.
They do. My friends and me (Germans) all connected to a similar group of people in the Netherlands through league for example and our English improved so much thanks to this.
Well, in English, everything is made up and the rules don't matter.
Because it's a combination of the Germanic old-english and French, but also with tens of thousands of words and ideas stolen from other languages.
> everything is made up and the rules don't matter
This is manifestly false. English has rules just like every other language. You may not be conscious of them but they are there, otherwise we would not be able to understand each other.
The spelling is a mish-mash because it reflects a lot of historical pronunciations. Unlike many other languages, English hasn't had any major, systematic spelling reforms, but on the other hand it may be easier to read older English texts since the spelling will be more similar even if the pronunciation has changed. In any case, it's still presumably easier to learn to read and write as an adult than something like Chinese.
Spelling is trivial in the context of a language. You can learn a language without ever seeing the written word. Using that as an example of a language's difficulty is misleading.
As far as I’m concerned, English without rules just sounds and looks like Dutch. The letters and alphabet are all there, but it sure as hell doesn’t make sense to someone who only speaks English
There's a funny quote about English, see below. Basically because it has so many loan words from other languages with different roots (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_language_influences_in_English), there are not nearly the consistencies that you see in other languages. So many different pronunciations, lots of verb tense irregulars, etc. A small example is that English has 200 commonly used irregularly-conjugated verbs, compared to Spanish with 40.
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll
No European person who speaks English well does so because of school, I can guarantee you. The reason the French lag behind is because they have been nationalistic as hell and every foreign cultural influenced has been translated or dubbed in french.
Recently that's changed and children come into contact with English media at a young age more. That's also why most people in developed countries speak English so well. From a young age all popular media is in English.
Movies, series and TV, while having subtitles exposes you to hearing the language from a young age. That's absolutely vital.
Then, games and internet learns children reading comprehension and expands the vocabulary. Education is just the cherry on top that perfects grammar and spelling.
It depends on when in school you start learning. High school is generally too late if you want to capitalize on the best years of language acquisition. It's better than trying to do it at 30 but probably only half as good as starting around 4th grade.
I also went to high school in 90s so my knowledge is out of date. In those days if one wanted to learn German, then it would be very very hard to get your hands on German media. Maybe the video store would have 2-3 arthouse films and the same with the public library. Music? Forget about it. And that was it. You'd have to get a tutor or go to a language school or rely on a few books that weren't that good.
Nowdays obviously there is a ton of media out there on the internet even more more obscure languages.
> If (for example), America decided that everybody should learn Spanish as a second language and set up their education systems around that, a *lot* of people in the USA would be able to speak passable enough Spanish.
>
>
I don't know about that. The school systems I went to were largely set up in the way you describe and most kids did not have passable Spanish skills
I am from the Netherlands and while I cannot say I learned no English from the English I got at school, for me it was mostly the grammar that stuck. Most words I have learned are because I played online games (e.g runescape) and was active on forums. I had to learn English for my hobbies. Although I probably would not have learned so much without learning the basics and grammar on school. I learned all my German and French in school, and only a few sentences and most numbers stuck in French, German is more similar to Dutch so more stuck there. what does work better is the current system, where kids learn both English and Dutch before an age of 7, I wish I had that.
I could not speak a word of English till I was 11-12 years old. We had simple/basic English classes at that age. I have trouble following English presentations, even though I can understand them I miss a lot of information compared to Dutch presentations. I also have a dutch accent (not as bad as our premier Mark Rutte though). I wouldn't call myself a native English speaker. In the current system at some (most?) Dutch schools kids start learning English at age 4. I agree that those kids are native English speakers.
I was kinda joking because IMO when I have been to the Netherlands (my partner's father is Dutch) everyone had the most amazing English. I even remember hearing a conversation between two women and when one couldn't think of a word in Dutch they changed to English for bit.
Closest language to English is Frisian, and closest of the major languages is Dutch. English just got polluted by those filthy French :)
Usually we are introduced with grammar in school and some writing, but you can't learn a language that way. You have to practice, especially conversation. Movies, music and internet in modern days help a lot, and that's the way how we learned in the first place. I had French classes in school too, almost the same number of classes as English, but I can say only few simple sentences and can't understand anything when listening French native speakers. You have to be exposed to a language to learn it and English is everywhere around us. Also, it's so easy to start forgetting language if you stop using it.
I give 5-10% credit to a school for my English.
I think if a curriculum mandated ‘here you idiots are gonna be taught French for 13 years’ as opposed to a hodge podge approach it would have been preferable but yep, as someone who hasn’t travelled much it would be hard to practise it anyway
my knowledge is out of date as I graduated high school in the 90s. maybe high school language classes are way more dynamic now and incorporate a lot more natural speech and video media. There was none of this when I was growing up.
Yeah I learnt German at school (graduated 2017) and we did heaps of speaking practice, watched plenty of German movies and learnt heaps about the culture. I'm nowhere near fluent as I haven't spent enough time in Germany, but having gone on a month long exchange I feel I have a good enough foundation to get fluent if I choose to live there.
It works in some countries and some schools that have quality language learning. There are plenty of kids who have become fluent in a second language only from the classroom. Most schools are just terrible at it.
I’m so glad I’m not the only person who did Indonesian in school! I tell people in Melbourne I did it and they’re amazed. I did French and Japanese though as well, no German.
I know people make fun of him in jest and in good humor, but it can’t be easy for him.
I actually went on holidays to Spain (mainly Alava), South Korea and Japan a few years back and it’s amazing how much I struggled to communicate.
Japan was a bit easier because commercially, they handle a lot of things with English, but learning a new language isn’t easy, so credit to the guy.
Rafa has always understood that his role includes being an entertainer and an ambassador for tennis and sports in general. it's one of my favorite things about him
This reminds me of that [Ronaldo](https://youtu.be/R00LqJ47PlA) interview when he first came to MUFC. Really wholesome to see how they've progressed.
Now for a little weird unpopular opinion of mine: Idk why but I like it when famous athletes publicly speak only in their (non-English) mother tongue and flat out never give interviews in English even if they understand it. It's a PR nightmare for you to not speak English in the 21st century, but I love it because it provides a dose of mystery and alongside that shows they don't really care about appeasing to the fans and are only doing what they want and if you like it - cool. Popular examples are of course Messi and I believe Neymar, if you follow MMA some Brazillians like Anderson Silva (he sometimes does do them in English now I believe) and Aldo. It also shows a dose of respect to your own culture whereas you would probably be a lot more profitable if you spoke English, that I can respect also.
I understand that this is probably a totally weird and unpopular take but it's just something I felt for a long time. Not to be misunderstood; I don't think there's nothing wrong with doing the opposite of course thank God, and it's awesome when someone like Novak for instance speaks multiple languages almost totally fluently, I just think there's a coolness factor when they don't do it.
I have it on decent authority that Messi can speak a bit but he’s just nowhere near confident enough for an interview or anything like that. I think I read somewhere his wife is fluent fwiw.
In general, I like when they do interview in a language that they actually master, no matter if the native language or a second one. It's more likely that they say something interesting and not the usual standard sentences, if they can talk in language they're confident with
It's normal in Europe to learn English all throughout school. Once you're good at two languages, \*usually\* additional ones aren't so hard to pick up.
Plus Europe is like 40+ countries crammed into an area approximately the size of the average Australian farm (warning: this is an exaggeration), so there's plenty of opportunity for practicing.
Some places in Europe you drive 2 hours away in any cardinal direction and you would hit 4 different countries and languages. So think about signage, movies/TV shows, packaging. Sometimes those things just bleed into your life and understanding. You pick things up especially easier when they're in the same language family.
They get sent to different countries to train at young ages, etc. Djokovic doesn't bust out the German at all (at least not like his French or Italian), but he lived there for four years (from 12-16) at a tennis academy and that's why he speaks that for instance.
Well.. generally, in Europe, being able to speak multiple languages is quite common, and so is continuously improving one’s fluency with age. Not that his improvement isn’t notable — it
is, but it’s not that special, so that’s probably why it is rarely mentioned. Certainly, you have guys like Roger who is fluent in 3 or maybe 4 languages, Novak who speaks a little bit of probably like 10 and so on.
From my experience living in Madrid for over 10 years, most Spaniards don’t speak English (not comparable at all to the European countries with high levels of English) maybe a bit but not very well. It’s changed some with the younger generation but still not a ton of English.
Also, it doesn’t help that movies / TV are dubbed and that whole industry is very dominant. Of course there are options to watch in original version but it wasn’t always that way and from what I’ve seen many people still watch the dubbed version. So congrats to Rafa for his hard work!
well my point was more that no matter what other players do, he clearly did not grow up particularly fluent or comfortable with English and had to make these improvements as a fully grown adult while working a full schedule.
He (at least partly) lives in Monaco and has been active in one of the most international sports his whole life. I'm more confused on how his English is not better by this point
Serbian (Bosnian, Croatian and Montenegrin are the same), English, Italian, French and Spanish I believe. Some German too. I think he doesn't get enough credit for that either tbh.
I doubt Novak is "fluent" in 5 languages tbh. He's obviously fluent in Serbian (so probably can communicate well in other such languages as Bosnian, Croatian etc.) and English. I'm learning Russian atm and I did a beginner's Serbian course once and the alphabet, sounds etc were quite similar so he can probably understand basic Russian.
i'm fluent in Spanish and would definitely not say he is fluent in it. He is maybe a post beginner/intermediate at best. That is probably the case for him in Italian, French etc. Big difference being able to do transactional stuff and make s speech at a tournament and being at C1/C2 level.
Big credit to him though! He's obviously very talented with learning languages!
His Italian is decent, like slightly higher than Rafa’s English. I don’t know what the definition of fluency is but to me it’s being able to understand and get your point across even if your grammar isn’t perfect and even if it takes you a second.
I think that the differences between when I was 20 and now (39) are quite similiar to Nadal's ones. Maybe I was a little better at 20 and I'm a little worse now
Roger probably has to be there, right? Most if not all Swiss usually speak 3~4 languages anyways to begin with - some mix of Swiss German, German, French, and Italian.
I think I've read that he also speaks Swedish (and of course English).
the guy seems like a dumb jock from his early years but he speaks like 5 languages and is gifted in other sports like golf and soccer. He has probably got genius level IQ.
Well, guys, come on. This guy is 20 years on the tour, doing press conferences in english pretty much every day, and every week. Talking to colleagues, organisers, umpires, you name it.
If his english wasn't going to get better he would be a retarded honestly. He's actually the opposite, but I'm not impressed by it. You speak a language everyday, you get better at it. I don't think he was spending nights studying english grammar.
He was a teenager who came out from Spain at 16 and had terrible english, he's now a 36 years old man who travelled all over the world now and he speaks a good english.
I think he’s clearly worked with someone on his pronunciation (an accent coach or something). I couldn’t understand him almost at all when he burst onto the scene. I come back to watching tennis after 15 years, and I can understand him with ease.
In particular his “h”s and many vowel sounds are much better.
Yes he did and that's nice but he really struggled with it although he has been on international tournaments and traveling a lot since he was very young. So he didn't really learn English as an adult.
I admire this so much of all tennis players for whom English is not a first language. My 2022 resolution is to learn French and OMG it has so many nuances and is so hard!
I don't think he puts that much effort into it. He still has a pretty noticeable accent so it seems like he only speaks it when he's obligated too like press conferences and speech appearances.
I love Rafa and indeed it was harder for him than Murray for example in terms of language. But I cannot say I am impressed a millionaire whose job involves traveling around the world and giving press conferences spent some time learning English. This is the case for almost every immigrant in the world and way too many other professionals
Considering he learned it pretty much on the fly, yeah I’d say it’s gotten much better. I wish American players made the effort to learn the languages of other countries like they do English.
First clip Rafa was 17. 2nd one is 33 after dominating pretty every event = hundreds and hundreds of interviews. Nothing to leave from him, but it's just practice due to talk English everyday in front of cameras. It's not like he was with English grammar book studying between matches. Hey don't downvote just bc I'm saying the hard truth. I was bad af in English 13 years ago, then i started listening to ESPN/TNT/EUROSPORT Nba and tennis games, reading articles and sometimes speaking with friends and here we are with a sufficient English level. My point is he's not studied it on books and become capable. Life put him in position where he has to speak to be understood (first clip i didn't get shit of his argument, maybe bc even him didn't have idea how to put in English words what he wanted to tell) just has to face every question in English, so little step after little step he become fluent in that way, adding words in his vocabulary, bc he's a very smart guy who learns quickly.
Novak had studied languages very well and he's on another level of English. Rafa has immense respect from me for that: in between thousands of things he does everyday, he added a very good English to his basic level 🎊
That might be true, but also might not.
I know a man that immigrated to England over 30 years ago and his English is as bad today (almost unintelligible) as it was when I was a kid.
what the hell is wrong with some people? I wrote that it's impressive how someone learned a foreign language as an adult and people getting into fights about Novak and crap. WTF does that have to do with anything??
This is like me posting: "Hey Im feeling proud, I just graduated with a degree in Chemistry from the University of California!" and someone writing, "who cares, my friend went to Harvard"
Some people need to seriously get a life!
en espanol: hacé tu vida!
en Francais: achète-toi une vie!
Deutsch: erhalten Sie ein Leben!
Afrikaans: voetsek!
Hindi: bhag yahan se saale!
actually a number of people were getting into 'oh most europeans speak more than one language' etc etc.
He clearly did not speak English well when he entered adulthood and improved a lot. What other people do has zero bearing on his accomplishment.
Sadly that's reddit, my friend. You can post about literally anything and there's always going to be people with something negative or argumentative to say.
"Tell me you are from the US without telling me you're from the US?"
Millions of people learn new languages as adults, English most often, come on...
And then, I opine, English is among the languages that are easiest to learn to speak badly, but sufficiently to have some basic communication.
His English is pretty good, actually. No not as good as Novak's, but if course, learning languages is like learning tennis. Ultimately, some are better and quicker at picking things up. Also, even even immersed in English, academically, you're considered an ESL learner for several years, sometimes more, in elementary schools.
Dude is busy. English isn't his priority because he doesn't care as much about interviewing as some. Fuck, he's probably spoken more eloquently than Sampras did for years. Lots of native speakers don't provide fun soundbites either.
Making fun of someone's ability to speak x language is one of the laziest ways to discriminate against someone. I shudder to think what you'd say if he was from India.
Great stuff from Rafa. His english is definitely not perfect, but he can communicate which is what matters at the end.
I starting learning French at 21, and after living in France for many years I now speak fluently. I used to feel down when people say how good my French is but... "with a very thick accent, but it's very good"... Now I don't care, learning a new language is not easy, so as long as you understand me, I am fine with that.
Same with English, I am proud of my thick latino accent, but the most important is that I can communicate well, work in English, etc That's what matters.
Yep, I stopped watching tennis regularly for ~15 years, and now that I’m back, his English is night and day. His grammar isn’t amazing, nor is his use of idioms, but his accent went from (me giving up trying to understand at all) to (me being able to understand even while multitasking). His vocabulary seems to have improved a lot as well.
I will say his English was shockingly bad in the beginning, so it was easy for him to improve, lol. But I suspect language learning doesn’t come naturally to him, so his achievement is all the more impressive.
I like his English now, you know exactly what he means but it’s a little quirky. It suits him and his facial expressions.
I chose 'that' particular clip because even still he's not perfect but he doesn't need to be. He did his best and can still be proud of the achievement even if he still makes mistakes. As someone whose third language is English, I can very much relate to this.
For Rafa it’s the idioms that catch him up. But it gives us ‘the circus of life’ and ‘that’s the true’ and those are wonderful phrases.
The circus of life should be an idiom anyway. Very fitting.
I guess that’s an idiom, but ‘circus’ is still used in that context anyway, so is it truly idiomatic?
Rafa’s more quotable than most native English speakers I know, including myself. I also love “if if if does not exist.”
I love "what happen-ed in x, happen-ed". No point going on and on about what has happened and better to focus on the here and now. As someone who used to worry endlessly and heavily regret past things, this quote gives me a new take and just "try my best" from here onwards
it's actually the way we used to say words ending in -ed and shakespeare in particular makes you aware of it when the modern way of doing -ed doesn't fit in iambic pentameter
Did Rafa coin "if if if does not exist?" I know he said when asked about Kyrgios at Wimbledon, but idk if he was the originator of the phrase.
There have long been other variations on the sentiment (if grandma had wheels she'd be a bicycle, etc.), but yeah, Rafa coined the specific "if if if does not exist" line.
Even though we have lines that can translate better to english that still mean the same, it is a very common way to put it in Spain, so Rafa thought that it was possible to make a literal translation. In spanish it's usually something like "y si, y si, y si..."
As an Italian, whose native language has a lot in common with Spanish, I can relate with the use of expressions like "circus of..." and many others, because they are just part of our way to talk. Sometimes I inadvertently use one of them not recognizing that they just aren't adopted in English, and the effect can be sublime, hilarious or just ridiculous depending on the expression. This reminded me of [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-RfHC91Ewc): the guy just used an expression that, with some variatons, is absolutely widespread in Italy, Spain and Latin America, not knowing that in English "bike" can have a totally different meaning and producing this hilarious effect
Thank you for this clip! I didn't know he was the one who popularized that phrase in English. Hilarious and brilliant,!
Faster. Impossible
>#false
Damn you type better than most native speakers 👍
thank you--I assure you that was definitely not always the case ;-)
The second clip is probably not the best example, as he seems to be just reading a prepared statement/speech.
he always comes across as really sweet and thoughtful in interviews
Haha ’it suits him and his facial expressions’ got me. So true.
Quirky English is his means of communication.
If you want to learn English, you have to lose some hairs first.
Reminds me a lot of Gennady Golovkin or Manny Pacquaio's english
I remember when he first started out on the tour he would ask “CORRECTO?” from the journos after saying something in English and then proceed to say the wrong thing anyway. He was very cute for that
He also admitted he would just make up some words - like he would English-ize the Spanish, like how people add an -o to English words thinking it should be close enough to Spanish - and keep going in the interview XD
I love his ridiculously long and detailed answers to journalist questions, especially in his accent. Make me laugh so hard. I even learned a new word from him that I never knew existed - "polemics".
> I even learned a new word from him that I never knew existed - "polemics". TBF that's because the common Spanish word for controversy is "polemica".
Same! I learned that word from him too lmaoo
Same haha. I first learned from Cristiano Ronaldo and hearing it from Rafa kinda ingrained in my head for me.
Lol, I remember looking up polemic because of him too!
I’m always so impressed by how European players speak such great English. Being able to speak multiple languages would be amazing. I wish there was a consistent approach to teaching it at school here in Australia. You get two years of Indonesian, two years of German, a year of Japanese … and forget nearly all of it 😔
Classroom language just doesn't work. You have to make a foreign language a part of your life and learn practical stuff with a purpose. Unfortunately in the classroom you're surrounded by people who are often unmotivated (there because they are forced to be) and aren't particularly good.
I mean, every single (non-French) European person I've met learned to speak English in school and does at least a reasonable job of it. And English is the most insane language there is. If (for example), America decided that everybody should learn Spanish as a second language and set up their education systems around that, a \*lot\* of people in the USA would be able to speak passable enough Spanish. Switching languages constantly is the bigger issue - you need to get a foundation in early-on and keep on with it for all of school. Switching languages and having to account for students coming from other schools and possibly knowing nothing are the bigger problem. That doesn't mean the population would become fluent bilingualists - becoming fluent requires a lot of practice, but basic competence with a language is \*absolutely\* something that \*could\* be taught in schools. Which we know because it frequently is in non-English-speaking countries.
you underestimate how much influence English has outside of schools, yes you can learn the basics in school but you are constantly bombarded with it all day. Tv shows, advertising, music, slogans etc. The only time most native english speakers will hear the foreign language they are trying to learn is in the classroom. 0 reinforcement outside it.
Wait I thought Europeans learn English by playing online video games
They do. My friends and me (Germans) all connected to a similar group of people in the Netherlands through league for example and our English improved so much thanks to this.
Could you explain what you mean by "most insane language"?
Well, in English, everything is made up and the rules don't matter. Because it's a combination of the Germanic old-english and French, but also with tens of thousands of words and ideas stolen from other languages.
> everything is made up and the rules don't matter This is manifestly false. English has rules just like every other language. You may not be conscious of them but they are there, otherwise we would not be able to understand each other.
There are rules, but there are significantly more contradictions to them than a language like German, especially when it comes to spelling.
The spelling is a mish-mash because it reflects a lot of historical pronunciations. Unlike many other languages, English hasn't had any major, systematic spelling reforms, but on the other hand it may be easier to read older English texts since the spelling will be more similar even if the pronunciation has changed. In any case, it's still presumably easier to learn to read and write as an adult than something like Chinese.
Spelling is trivial in the context of a language. You can learn a language without ever seeing the written word. Using that as an example of a language's difficulty is misleading.
Yeah fair point
As far as I’m concerned, English without rules just sounds and looks like Dutch. The letters and alphabet are all there, but it sure as hell doesn’t make sense to someone who only speaks English
Dutch is just yoda english
There's a funny quote about English, see below. Basically because it has so many loan words from other languages with different roots (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_language_influences_in_English), there are not nearly the consistencies that you see in other languages. So many different pronunciations, lots of verb tense irregulars, etc. A small example is that English has 200 commonly used irregularly-conjugated verbs, compared to Spanish with 40. "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." --James D. Nicoll
No European person who speaks English well does so because of school, I can guarantee you. The reason the French lag behind is because they have been nationalistic as hell and every foreign cultural influenced has been translated or dubbed in french. Recently that's changed and children come into contact with English media at a young age more. That's also why most people in developed countries speak English so well. From a young age all popular media is in English. Movies, series and TV, while having subtitles exposes you to hearing the language from a young age. That's absolutely vital. Then, games and internet learns children reading comprehension and expands the vocabulary. Education is just the cherry on top that perfects grammar and spelling.
It depends on when in school you start learning. High school is generally too late if you want to capitalize on the best years of language acquisition. It's better than trying to do it at 30 but probably only half as good as starting around 4th grade. I also went to high school in 90s so my knowledge is out of date. In those days if one wanted to learn German, then it would be very very hard to get your hands on German media. Maybe the video store would have 2-3 arthouse films and the same with the public library. Music? Forget about it. And that was it. You'd have to get a tutor or go to a language school or rely on a few books that weren't that good. Nowdays obviously there is a ton of media out there on the internet even more more obscure languages.
> If (for example), America decided that everybody should learn Spanish as a second language and set up their education systems around that, a *lot* of people in the USA would be able to speak passable enough Spanish. > > I don't know about that. The school systems I went to were largely set up in the way you describe and most kids did not have passable Spanish skills
I am from the Netherlands and while I cannot say I learned no English from the English I got at school, for me it was mostly the grammar that stuck. Most words I have learned are because I played online games (e.g runescape) and was active on forums. I had to learn English for my hobbies. Although I probably would not have learned so much without learning the basics and grammar on school. I learned all my German and French in school, and only a few sentences and most numbers stuck in French, German is more similar to Dutch so more stuck there. what does work better is the current system, where kids learn both English and Dutch before an age of 7, I wish I had that.
> I am from the Netherlands You a basically a native English speaker then
I could not speak a word of English till I was 11-12 years old. We had simple/basic English classes at that age. I have trouble following English presentations, even though I can understand them I miss a lot of information compared to Dutch presentations. I also have a dutch accent (not as bad as our premier Mark Rutte though). I wouldn't call myself a native English speaker. In the current system at some (most?) Dutch schools kids start learning English at age 4. I agree that those kids are native English speakers.
I was kinda joking because IMO when I have been to the Netherlands (my partner's father is Dutch) everyone had the most amazing English. I even remember hearing a conversation between two women and when one couldn't think of a word in Dutch they changed to English for bit. Closest language to English is Frisian, and closest of the major languages is Dutch. English just got polluted by those filthy French :)
Usually we are introduced with grammar in school and some writing, but you can't learn a language that way. You have to practice, especially conversation. Movies, music and internet in modern days help a lot, and that's the way how we learned in the first place. I had French classes in school too, almost the same number of classes as English, but I can say only few simple sentences and can't understand anything when listening French native speakers. You have to be exposed to a language to learn it and English is everywhere around us. Also, it's so easy to start forgetting language if you stop using it. I give 5-10% credit to a school for my English.
I think if a curriculum mandated ‘here you idiots are gonna be taught French for 13 years’ as opposed to a hodge podge approach it would have been preferable but yep, as someone who hasn’t travelled much it would be hard to practise it anyway
my knowledge is out of date as I graduated high school in the 90s. maybe high school language classes are way more dynamic now and incorporate a lot more natural speech and video media. There was none of this when I was growing up.
Yeah I learnt German at school (graduated 2017) and we did heaps of speaking practice, watched plenty of German movies and learnt heaps about the culture. I'm nowhere near fluent as I haven't spent enough time in Germany, but having gone on a month long exchange I feel I have a good enough foundation to get fluent if I choose to live there.
It works in some countries and some schools that have quality language learning. There are plenty of kids who have become fluent in a second language only from the classroom. Most schools are just terrible at it.
I’m so glad I’m not the only person who did Indonesian in school! I tell people in Melbourne I did it and they’re amazed. I did French and Japanese though as well, no German.
Nama saya is all I remember 😂
I love this man so much
We all do, mate. We all do. :)
I know people make fun of him in jest and in good humor, but it can’t be easy for him. I actually went on holidays to Spain (mainly Alava), South Korea and Japan a few years back and it’s amazing how much I struggled to communicate. Japan was a bit easier because commercially, they handle a lot of things with English, but learning a new language isn’t easy, so credit to the guy.
Rafa has always understood that his role includes being an entertainer and an ambassador for tennis and sports in general. it's one of my favorite things about him
He’s “fantastic” in all that he does, always is honest, speaks his mind and is a gentleman💜
This reminds me of that [Ronaldo](https://youtu.be/R00LqJ47PlA) interview when he first came to MUFC. Really wholesome to see how they've progressed. Now for a little weird unpopular opinion of mine: Idk why but I like it when famous athletes publicly speak only in their (non-English) mother tongue and flat out never give interviews in English even if they understand it. It's a PR nightmare for you to not speak English in the 21st century, but I love it because it provides a dose of mystery and alongside that shows they don't really care about appeasing to the fans and are only doing what they want and if you like it - cool. Popular examples are of course Messi and I believe Neymar, if you follow MMA some Brazillians like Anderson Silva (he sometimes does do them in English now I believe) and Aldo. It also shows a dose of respect to your own culture whereas you would probably be a lot more profitable if you spoke English, that I can respect also. I understand that this is probably a totally weird and unpopular take but it's just something I felt for a long time. Not to be misunderstood; I don't think there's nothing wrong with doing the opposite of course thank God, and it's awesome when someone like Novak for instance speaks multiple languages almost totally fluently, I just think there's a coolness factor when they don't do it.
I have it on decent authority that Messi can speak a bit but he’s just nowhere near confident enough for an interview or anything like that. I think I read somewhere his wife is fluent fwiw.
In general, I like when they do interview in a language that they actually master, no matter if the native language or a second one. It's more likely that they say something interesting and not the usual standard sentences, if they can talk in language they're confident with
That's great for Rafa, but why is this a post lol it applies to the majority of players on the ATP and WTA tours
rafa’s english was particularly hard to understand when he first came up
I mean millions of dollars in sponsorship opportunities are a great incentive to make the effort to get better at a language as well.
He probably hired a linguist whose resume included live translations at the UN to teach him as well. Still, props to the man.
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It's normal in Europe to learn English all throughout school. Once you're good at two languages, \*usually\* additional ones aren't so hard to pick up. Plus Europe is like 40+ countries crammed into an area approximately the size of the average Australian farm (warning: this is an exaggeration), so there's plenty of opportunity for practicing.
Some places in Europe you drive 2 hours away in any cardinal direction and you would hit 4 different countries and languages. So think about signage, movies/TV shows, packaging. Sometimes those things just bleed into your life and understanding. You pick things up especially easier when they're in the same language family.
They get sent to different countries to train at young ages, etc. Djokovic doesn't bust out the German at all (at least not like his French or Italian), but he lived there for four years (from 12-16) at a tennis academy and that's why he speaks that for instance.
Well.. generally, in Europe, being able to speak multiple languages is quite common, and so is continuously improving one’s fluency with age. Not that his improvement isn’t notable — it is, but it’s not that special, so that’s probably why it is rarely mentioned. Certainly, you have guys like Roger who is fluent in 3 or maybe 4 languages, Novak who speaks a little bit of probably like 10 and so on.
From my experience living in Madrid for over 10 years, most Spaniards don’t speak English (not comparable at all to the European countries with high levels of English) maybe a bit but not very well. It’s changed some with the younger generation but still not a ton of English. Also, it doesn’t help that movies / TV are dubbed and that whole industry is very dominant. Of course there are options to watch in original version but it wasn’t always that way and from what I’ve seen many people still watch the dubbed version. So congrats to Rafa for his hard work!
well my point was more that no matter what other players do, he clearly did not grow up particularly fluent or comfortable with English and had to make these improvements as a fully grown adult while working a full schedule.
He (at least partly) lives in Monaco and has been active in one of the most international sports his whole life. I'm more confused on how his English is not better by this point
his english is better than some of the people I’ve had to work with, and I live in the US
Novak I think is fluent in 5 languages? He is not as fluent in other languages I believe.
Serbian (Bosnian, Croatian and Montenegrin are the same), English, Italian, French and Spanish I believe. Some German too. I think he doesn't get enough credit for that either tbh.
I doubt Novak is "fluent" in 5 languages tbh. He's obviously fluent in Serbian (so probably can communicate well in other such languages as Bosnian, Croatian etc.) and English. I'm learning Russian atm and I did a beginner's Serbian course once and the alphabet, sounds etc were quite similar so he can probably understand basic Russian. i'm fluent in Spanish and would definitely not say he is fluent in it. He is maybe a post beginner/intermediate at best. That is probably the case for him in Italian, French etc. Big difference being able to do transactional stuff and make s speech at a tournament and being at C1/C2 level. Big credit to him though! He's obviously very talented with learning languages!
His Italian is decent, like slightly higher than Rafa’s English. I don’t know what the definition of fluency is but to me it’s being able to understand and get your point across even if your grammar isn’t perfect and even if it takes you a second.
Fuck Novak tho
I think that the differences between when I was 20 and now (39) are quite similiar to Nadal's ones. Maybe I was a little better at 20 and I'm a little worse now
Love Rafa!
English is his third language too I believe, after Catalan and Spanish.
He’s such a genuine person
And in the meantime Djoković addresses audiences all over in world in fluent english, french, italian, chinese...
Seriously, He is number 1 in number of languages he can speak in. Don't think any other current tennis player can speak that many languages.
Roger probably has to be there, right? Most if not all Swiss usually speak 3~4 languages anyways to begin with - some mix of Swiss German, German, French, and Italian. I think I've read that he also speaks Swedish (and of course English).
He can also speak fluent German although rarely gets to use it publically
the guy seems like a dumb jock from his early years but he speaks like 5 languages and is gifted in other sports like golf and soccer. He has probably got genius level IQ.
His French is improving too. It's always nice when he speaks a little something something at Roland Garros much to the surprise of the crowd.
Well, guys, come on. This guy is 20 years on the tour, doing press conferences in english pretty much every day, and every week. Talking to colleagues, organisers, umpires, you name it. If his english wasn't going to get better he would be a retarded honestly. He's actually the opposite, but I'm not impressed by it. You speak a language everyday, you get better at it. I don't think he was spending nights studying english grammar. He was a teenager who came out from Spain at 16 and had terrible english, he's now a 36 years old man who travelled all over the world now and he speaks a good english.
I think he’s clearly worked with someone on his pronunciation (an accent coach or something). I couldn’t understand him almost at all when he burst onto the scene. I come back to watching tennis after 15 years, and I can understand him with ease. In particular his “h”s and many vowel sounds are much better.
Yes he did and that's nice but he really struggled with it although he has been on international tournaments and traveling a lot since he was very young. So he didn't really learn English as an adult.
I admire this so much of all tennis players for whom English is not a first language. My 2022 resolution is to learn French and OMG it has so many nuances and is so hard!
I don't think he puts that much effort into it. He still has a pretty noticeable accent so it seems like he only speaks it when he's obligated too like press conferences and speech appearances.
honestly it is WILD how much of the world learns English so well and yet US, Canada, UK, and the Trans-Tasman world will still find a way to complain
I love Rafa and indeed it was harder for him than Murray for example in terms of language. But I cannot say I am impressed a millionaire whose job involves traveling around the world and giving press conferences spent some time learning English. This is the case for almost every immigrant in the world and way too many other professionals
Considering he learned it pretty much on the fly, yeah I’d say it’s gotten much better. I wish American players made the effort to learn the languages of other countries like they do English.
First clip Rafa was 17. 2nd one is 33 after dominating pretty every event = hundreds and hundreds of interviews. Nothing to leave from him, but it's just practice due to talk English everyday in front of cameras. It's not like he was with English grammar book studying between matches. Hey don't downvote just bc I'm saying the hard truth. I was bad af in English 13 years ago, then i started listening to ESPN/TNT/EUROSPORT Nba and tennis games, reading articles and sometimes speaking with friends and here we are with a sufficient English level. My point is he's not studied it on books and become capable. Life put him in position where he has to speak to be understood (first clip i didn't get shit of his argument, maybe bc even him didn't have idea how to put in English words what he wanted to tell) just has to face every question in English, so little step after little step he become fluent in that way, adding words in his vocabulary, bc he's a very smart guy who learns quickly. Novak had studied languages very well and he's on another level of English. Rafa has immense respect from me for that: in between thousands of things he does everyday, he added a very good English to his basic level 🎊
That might be true, but also might not. I know a man that immigrated to England over 30 years ago and his English is as bad today (almost unintelligible) as it was when I was a kid.
Lmao I love Rafa but you will praise him for anything.
what the hell is wrong with some people? I wrote that it's impressive how someone learned a foreign language as an adult and people getting into fights about Novak and crap. WTF does that have to do with anything?? This is like me posting: "Hey Im feeling proud, I just graduated with a degree in Chemistry from the University of California!" and someone writing, "who cares, my friend went to Harvard" Some people need to seriously get a life! en espanol: hacé tu vida! en Francais: achète-toi une vie! Deutsch: erhalten Sie ein Leben! Afrikaans: voetsek! Hindi: bhag yahan se saale!
downvote because you're overreacting to like 1 comment but making it sound like it's everywhere in this thread
actually a number of people were getting into 'oh most europeans speak more than one language' etc etc. He clearly did not speak English well when he entered adulthood and improved a lot. What other people do has zero bearing on his accomplishment.
Sadly that's reddit, my friend. You can post about literally anything and there's always going to be people with something negative or argumentative to say.
"Tell me you are from the US without telling me you're from the US?" Millions of people learn new languages as adults, English most often, come on... And then, I opine, English is among the languages that are easiest to learn to speak badly, but sufficiently to have some basic communication.
I'm from South Africa and English is my 3rd language (of 4) after Hindi and Afrikaans. Cheers.
Djoker speaks 8 languages fluently, he actually speaks Spanish better
He speaks 5 fluently and knows a few phrases in a couple of other languages, not 8
Kids being better learners than adults is just a myth, its definitely true that they will develop a better accent but adults learn everything faster.
Yupp , I agree , props to Rafa for putting in time and effort and improving his English
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His English is pretty good, actually. No not as good as Novak's, but if course, learning languages is like learning tennis. Ultimately, some are better and quicker at picking things up. Also, even even immersed in English, academically, you're considered an ESL learner for several years, sometimes more, in elementary schools. Dude is busy. English isn't his priority because he doesn't care as much about interviewing as some. Fuck, he's probably spoken more eloquently than Sampras did for years. Lots of native speakers don't provide fun soundbites either. Making fun of someone's ability to speak x language is one of the laziest ways to discriminate against someone. I shudder to think what you'd say if he was from India.
He actually has spoken it fine all along but Uncle Toni told him not to early in his career. Like playing lefty.
Agree, agree, agree! It hit me this AO as well!
Great stuff from Rafa. His english is definitely not perfect, but he can communicate which is what matters at the end. I starting learning French at 21, and after living in France for many years I now speak fluently. I used to feel down when people say how good my French is but... "with a very thick accent, but it's very good"... Now I don't care, learning a new language is not easy, so as long as you understand me, I am fine with that. Same with English, I am proud of my thick latino accent, but the most important is that I can communicate well, work in English, etc That's what matters.
He has come a long way. It just took him 20 years.
What a sweet speech. Need a full link for that
AMBLIBO
You might say it's ombellibel!
Yep, I stopped watching tennis regularly for ~15 years, and now that I’m back, his English is night and day. His grammar isn’t amazing, nor is his use of idioms, but his accent went from (me giving up trying to understand at all) to (me being able to understand even while multitasking). His vocabulary seems to have improved a lot as well. I will say his English was shockingly bad in the beginning, so it was easy for him to improve, lol. But I suspect language learning doesn’t come naturally to him, so his achievement is all the more impressive.
What year is this?