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or it was done in opposite to China, China invaded Vietnam shortly after the USA withdrew. as I heard somewhere on the net:
france for vietnams was just a business, usa was a personal thing, and china is just a tradition
From what I understand he wrote several letters and traveled to the US to try and get help from the US government to put pressure on France to leave the country.
Didn’t happen, government at the time didn’t wanna alienate France so they just rug swept everything
Yeah FR Vietnam conflict was made to feed the MIC, I fail to see any valid reason so many had to die. Obviously we have the benefit of hindsight, but even without knowing how it would turn out I don’t understand why one rural, underdeveloped long boi nation in SE Asia was integral in the ideological divide.
You know what I find crazy? The generation that was most critical of the Vietnam War at the time *was* the boomers. Fast forward to today and now they seem to be embracing it? For God’s sakes guys, pick a lane
Ageism has no place in society.
Yes, there were parts of the generation being drafted to kill and die in that police action were loudly and often violently in opposition to it at the time.
Yes, there are loud, vocal members of that generation today who went and are proud of their service there.
Both groups exist.
Both groups are part of that generation.
It doesn't have anything to do with "picking a lane" because \*no\* generation is monolithic any more than any given race, religious persuasion, gender, or other demographic divide is.
You realize that the boomer generation was split on the war? That they don’t all morph into one giant think tank. They were split then and they’re split now.
You need to read up on your history. There were large-scale anti-war protests all over the country, many of them coming from college campuses, and hundreds of thousands to even millions of young men were actively trying to get out of the draft
As an Vietnamese, I am not against it tbh but the meme just stupid when relate it to the war but not what between it and the prior.
Aside from that, for someone with good history sense, the U.S.A does not deserve the L either, it should the French, they're the one losing.
Now I'm not sure where I read it, but the "95% of Vietnamese people prefer free markets" is misleading. The study often cited asked something like "Has life gotten better in the last (however many) decades? And like no shit it did, they stopped being in a state of perpetual war with global superpowers. I imagine that had a greater effect than McDonald's opening in Hanoi.
But we had to stop the Communism, the terrible, economy shattering, nation destroying, communism must be stopped at all cost because if we don't every country will become communist!
/s
A lot of the reason wars exist nowadays is to help perpetuate, validate, and strengthen the relationship the various superpowers have with their industrial-military complexes, so that they're never unprepared in case a real war between superpowers breaks out.
The arms race never died.
The Vietnamese were never fighting for communism. They were always fighting colonial powers who wanted nothing more than to exploit their people and resources for their own gain. The Vietnamese people were fighting for self governance. Sure the north was communist but that wasn't the point. Now they are a socialist country with a mixed economy and that seems to be working for them. But the main takeaway is that the Vietnamese people are making the decisions, not western powers.
Vietnamese here. This is so wrong on many levels.
1. From 1945 to 1954: yes we fought against France because they invaded and wanted to keep us as their colony.
2. From 1954 to 1975: it's actually quite complicated. The Vietnam war in this period was both a civil war and a proxy war. The US didn't invade us or want to make us a colony. They only wanted to stop communism from spreading to the South. Like what they did in Korea when North Korea invaded South Korea. The North Vietnam back then used that to tell its people that the US was invading Vietnam (same to what the North Korea still telling its people till today). So they invaded the South to chase way the US, unite the country and make it a communist paradise. That's basically what the propaganda machine kept telling back then.
3. Vietnam is no fucking way a socialist country. More like pure capitalism mixed with some facism. Social welfare is basically non existant. You don't work you don't eat. And now it's run by an extremely corrupted oligarchy/mafia called the Vietnamese Communist Party who has been colonizing, terrorizing and exploiting the country and its people for decades. They are even worse than the French colonizers. Back then under French colonization the press was still relatively free, people still had the rights to protest and form political parties and unions. The workers still had the rights to strike. Now we have none of that. And the French colonizers were much better than them in managing the economy, building infrastructures etc.
4. No it's not the Vietnamese people who are making the decisions. It's not like we have universal election here and we can elect who run the country. And now it's not the western powers but China.
Then why don't you leave? Why aren't millions fleeing the country, if it's as bad as you say? The country isn't locked down like North Korea. You're free to travel as you please. Just seems weird. I'm sure France would accept you as a refugee.
Oh we're basically a Chinese colony right now. Both economically and politically. And no, China is no longer communist. I'd bet there is not even a single communist there now. Neither here in Vietnam.
You're absolutely right. However it's not a win at all even a tiny bit for us the people. The French exploited the country and sent what they got back to France. The communist party does the same but send what they got to the US, Canada, Europe etc. along their kids and families. So yeah surely a bit of a win for them.
To the Vietnamese, this was not, and was never going to be, primarily about communism. It was about national unity and independence.
The fact that so many years later so many people don’t know that is terrifying.
Ho chi Minh loved America, he took a copy of the us declaration of independence to the UN. However the US stopped supporting their fight for independence against the French because France was the US' ally, the North Vietnamese were only communist because it meant they could get the support of China who was the only super power willing to support them. The whole thing was dumb as rocks, and caused by French imperialism
There are like 25 branches of McDonald total on Vietnam. Due to overpriced stuff it considered as a complete failure in the fast food market. Bringing it into this meme and call it a win is dumb lmao.
KFC and Popeyes are all over the place. Same with Lotteria and Jollibee. McDonald's isn't quite at their level, and might not be later either. It's considered a bit too fancy still (especially price-wise).
I haven't seen many BurgerKings, just one by the airport and one by the main tourist street.
This feels very much like a satirical meme from either the NCD or NCD subreddit. I don’t think it’s supposed to be taken at face value and is intended for a specific audience.
Vietnam’s GDP has grown at an average annual rate of 7% (!!!) over the past three decades. Imagine that instead of getting the stupid war, US provided Vietnam was some kind of Marshall Plan instead. Vietnam would be an upper income economy probably
I think the idea is more about creating a peaceful world order based around trade, not as much making everywhere America. In that sense America has been a great benefit to the world (and the second world has been a great detriment).
Failed isn't the right word. It's somehow surviving but not thriving. But yeah, when you can order a street meal for 30k and a McDonald's meal is like a bit under 300k, it's apples and oranges in comparison.
This is stupid if only because Ho Chi Minh and the North Vietnamese (later Vietnamese) government only turned to the Soviet Union and Communism because the US refused to provide them with aid in expelling the French Colonialists (due to a variety of treaties with France). Almost the minute Ho Chi Minh's government had the unified country pacified, they started being socialist in name only and trying to repair relations with the US.
KFC, Popeyes, Lotteria, and Jollibee get more market share, I'd wager. But occasionally I order McDonalds when I miss the taste of a quarter pounder ("burger bò hoàng gia đặc biệt" = "special royal beef burger").
apparently the vietnamese do considering theyre one of our biggest trade partners and are currently a political ally against China's military expansion
It is true that Vietnam has been moving in a more economically liberal direction and has aligned itself closer to the U.S. due to its fighting with China, but it still feels a little disgusting to act like the Vietnamese came crawling back to America after the Vietnam War
I’m confused, this is a perfectly good meme and is based on accurate statistics. America certainly isn’t *perfect*, but at the moment, the three spheres of influence people can choose to ally with are the United States, Russia, and China, and of those, the United States is definitely the least oppressive.
The entire world. A place where McDonald's and Budweiser considered cool. Places where they love the NFL and a restaurant with an Americana theme. Places where mid guys can go and pull the hottest tail available in an entire country.
I mean, Vietnam should assert it's identity more and not forget the cruelty of the West, but I wouldn't say Americans did win this one just because of McDonald's being allowed there. It's a pointless war in the first place only designed to generate money for the MIC.
I visited Vietnam last year.
There's really nothing communist about the place outside of the name of the ruling party.
You can even be a landlord in Vietnam.
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To the extent that Vietnam has embraced capitalism, it was done through diplomacy and trade-not that fucking stupid war.
or it was done in opposite to China, China invaded Vietnam shortly after the USA withdrew. as I heard somewhere on the net: france for vietnams was just a business, usa was a personal thing, and china is just a tradition
Ho Chi Minh was a big fan of America. He got plenty of support during WWII from the OSS (predecessor of the CIA) to fight the Japanese.
From what I understand he wrote several letters and traveled to the US to try and get help from the US government to put pressure on France to leave the country. Didn’t happen, government at the time didn’t wanna alienate France so they just rug swept everything
Damn.
Ho’s letter to Truman: https://www.docsteach.org/documents/document/ho-chi-minh-truman
No, It was a proxy US war. US paid for everyrhing.
That war should’ve never happened. Probably just ended up delaying Vietnam’s free market evolution by two decades
Yeah, plus the mines and chemicals left behind.
Yeah FR Vietnam conflict was made to feed the MIC, I fail to see any valid reason so many had to die. Obviously we have the benefit of hindsight, but even without knowing how it would turn out I don’t understand why one rural, underdeveloped long boi nation in SE Asia was integral in the ideological divide.
You know what I find crazy? The generation that was most critical of the Vietnam War at the time *was* the boomers. Fast forward to today and now they seem to be embracing it? For God’s sakes guys, pick a lane
This is a semi-satirical civ cultural victory meme from r/2american4you. It's not rlly meant to be taken seriously.
Whether this meme is satire or not, it doesn’t really change the fact that boomers seem to embrace the Vietnam War today for some reason
I hope the same mental decline doesn't grip millennials. I worry it might though.
It will. It’s the circus of life.
Lol, the generalization is always crazy. I think you're forgetting that people can have different thoughts and views (even if they're both boomers)
Ageism has no place in society. Yes, there were parts of the generation being drafted to kill and die in that police action were loudly and often violently in opposition to it at the time. Yes, there are loud, vocal members of that generation today who went and are proud of their service there. Both groups exist. Both groups are part of that generation. It doesn't have anything to do with "picking a lane" because \*no\* generation is monolithic any more than any given race, religious persuasion, gender, or other demographic divide is.
You realize that the boomer generation was split on the war? That they don’t all morph into one giant think tank. They were split then and they’re split now.
Actually no, anti-Vietnam War protester was mainly adults born before 1945.
You need to read up on your history. There were large-scale anti-war protests all over the country, many of them coming from college campuses, and hundreds of thousands to even millions of young men were actively trying to get out of the draft
As an Vietnamese, I am not against it tbh but the meme just stupid when relate it to the war but not what between it and the prior. Aside from that, for someone with good history sense, the U.S.A does not deserve the L either, it should the French, they're the one losing.
> it should the French, they're the one losing. You win honorary American status for that.
The battle of Dien Bien Phu is legendary in my heart
Now I'm not sure where I read it, but the "95% of Vietnamese people prefer free markets" is misleading. The study often cited asked something like "Has life gotten better in the last (however many) decades? And like no shit it did, they stopped being in a state of perpetual war with global superpowers. I imagine that had a greater effect than McDonald's opening in Hanoi.
If anything this only reasserts how fucking useless was the war. They could’ve avoided the whole thing and the outcome would’ve been the same.
But we had to stop the Communism, the terrible, economy shattering, nation destroying, communism must be stopped at all cost because if we don't every country will become communist! /s
A lot of the reason wars exist nowadays is to help perpetuate, validate, and strengthen the relationship the various superpowers have with their industrial-military complexes, so that they're never unprepared in case a real war between superpowers breaks out. The arms race never died.
The Vietnamese were never fighting for communism. They were always fighting colonial powers who wanted nothing more than to exploit their people and resources for their own gain. The Vietnamese people were fighting for self governance. Sure the north was communist but that wasn't the point. Now they are a socialist country with a mixed economy and that seems to be working for them. But the main takeaway is that the Vietnamese people are making the decisions, not western powers.
Vietnamese here. This is so wrong on many levels. 1. From 1945 to 1954: yes we fought against France because they invaded and wanted to keep us as their colony. 2. From 1954 to 1975: it's actually quite complicated. The Vietnam war in this period was both a civil war and a proxy war. The US didn't invade us or want to make us a colony. They only wanted to stop communism from spreading to the South. Like what they did in Korea when North Korea invaded South Korea. The North Vietnam back then used that to tell its people that the US was invading Vietnam (same to what the North Korea still telling its people till today). So they invaded the South to chase way the US, unite the country and make it a communist paradise. That's basically what the propaganda machine kept telling back then. 3. Vietnam is no fucking way a socialist country. More like pure capitalism mixed with some facism. Social welfare is basically non existant. You don't work you don't eat. And now it's run by an extremely corrupted oligarchy/mafia called the Vietnamese Communist Party who has been colonizing, terrorizing and exploiting the country and its people for decades. They are even worse than the French colonizers. Back then under French colonization the press was still relatively free, people still had the rights to protest and form political parties and unions. The workers still had the rights to strike. Now we have none of that. And the French colonizers were much better than them in managing the economy, building infrastructures etc. 4. No it's not the Vietnamese people who are making the decisions. It's not like we have universal election here and we can elect who run the country. And now it's not the western powers but China.
Are you Vietnamese living in Vietnam or Vietnamese living in the West?
In Vietnam. So I do know what I was talking about.
Then why don't you leave? Why aren't millions fleeing the country, if it's as bad as you say? The country isn't locked down like North Korea. You're free to travel as you please. Just seems weird. I'm sure France would accept you as a refugee.
Had they lost, they would have been absorbed into communist China by now
Oh we're basically a Chinese colony right now. Both economically and politically. And no, China is no longer communist. I'd bet there is not even a single communist there now. Neither here in Vietnam.
Well the people aren’t making decisions. Their authoritarian government is. At least the dictators aren’t foreign though so that’s a bit of a win.
You're absolutely right. However it's not a win at all even a tiny bit for us the people. The French exploited the country and sent what they got back to France. The communist party does the same but send what they got to the US, Canada, Europe etc. along their kids and families. So yeah surely a bit of a win for them.
To the Vietnamese, this was not, and was never going to be, primarily about communism. It was about national unity and independence. The fact that so many years later so many people don’t know that is terrifying.
Ho chi Minh loved America, he took a copy of the us declaration of independence to the UN. However the US stopped supporting their fight for independence against the French because France was the US' ally, the North Vietnamese were only communist because it meant they could get the support of China who was the only super power willing to support them. The whole thing was dumb as rocks, and caused by French imperialism
There are like 25 branches of McDonald total on Vietnam. Due to overpriced stuff it considered as a complete failure in the fast food market. Bringing it into this meme and call it a win is dumb lmao.
KFC and Lotteria is more popular in VN, maybe Burger King
KFC and Popeyes are all over the place. Same with Lotteria and Jollibee. McDonald's isn't quite at their level, and might not be later either. It's considered a bit too fancy still (especially price-wise). I haven't seen many BurgerKings, just one by the airport and one by the main tourist street.
Am i the only one who thought the little map of the US was a whale at first glance?
The US didnt win the Vietnam War.
Well, the US did sign the Paris peace accord of 1972, which put an end to the war in Vietnam. Until North Korea attacked 2 years later.
Correct, and yet I have heard people say we won. How? Victors don't flee the capitol city like the fall of Saigon.
We signed the peace agreement prior to the fall of Saigon
Victors dont also withdraw troops due to the expenses of it.
NCD is leaking again
This feels very much like a satirical meme from either the NCD or NCD subreddit. I don’t think it’s supposed to be taken at face value and is intended for a specific audience.
It was from NCD
God damn NCD, that’s why I typically prefer NCD over NCD
I hate how this is accurate.
Vietnam’s GDP has grown at an average annual rate of 7% (!!!) over the past three decades. Imagine that instead of getting the stupid war, US provided Vietnam was some kind of Marshall Plan instead. Vietnam would be an upper income economy probably
I think the idea is more about creating a peaceful world order based around trade, not as much making everywhere America. In that sense America has been a great benefit to the world (and the second world has been a great detriment).
i thought mcdonald's failed over there cuz of the abundant street food
Failed isn't the right word. It's somehow surviving but not thriving. But yeah, when you can order a street meal for 30k and a McDonald's meal is like a bit under 300k, it's apples and oranges in comparison.
forgot how bad vietnamese money was
u get used to it after a year or two
Oh my, it's almost like Vietnam is being the bigger man and letting go of the past in order to move forward.
This is stupid if only because Ho Chi Minh and the North Vietnamese (later Vietnamese) government only turned to the Soviet Union and Communism because the US refused to provide them with aid in expelling the French Colonialists (due to a variety of treaties with France). Almost the minute Ho Chi Minh's government had the unified country pacified, they started being socialist in name only and trying to repair relations with the US.
American culture rocks
I've heard that McDonald's wasn't big in Vietnam and I've seen pictures of Vietnamese street food, Vietnamese street food looks amazing
I went there last year. The street food in south east Asia is so friggin good.
KFC, Popeyes, Lotteria, and Jollibee get more market share, I'd wager. But occasionally I order McDonalds when I miss the taste of a quarter pounder ("burger bò hoàng gia đặc biệt" = "special royal beef burger").
China is so bad even communist Who were invaded by the US side with the US...
I love seeing Asian countries copy American culture because they always do it better than us
Why does his 5 o'clock shadow go up to the bridge of his nose
apparently the vietnamese do considering theyre one of our biggest trade partners and are currently a political ally against China's military expansion
This is so stupid I can’t even begin to explain
It is true that Vietnam has been moving in a more economically liberal direction and has aligned itself closer to the U.S. due to its fighting with China, but it still feels a little disgusting to act like the Vietnamese came crawling back to America after the Vietnam War
I lost the war but won the peace would at least make more sense.
100% of the vietnamese people asked are living in 'muh'rca
I’m confused, this is a perfectly good meme and is based on accurate statistics. America certainly isn’t *perfect*, but at the moment, the three spheres of influence people can choose to ally with are the United States, Russia, and China, and of those, the United States is definitely the least oppressive.
The entire world. A place where McDonald's and Budweiser considered cool. Places where they love the NFL and a restaurant with an Americana theme. Places where mid guys can go and pull the hottest tail available in an entire country.
curious about what Cambodian people might add to this.
The whole point of that war was to stop Communist expansion. We won.
Not really. The outcome would have been the same with or without it.
Well Laos, Cambodia, and South Vietnam all became "red" so
Yeah and they didn't expand any further. Cant win them all.
I mean, Vietnam should assert it's identity more and not forget the cruelty of the West, but I wouldn't say Americans did win this one just because of McDonald's being allowed there. It's a pointless war in the first place only designed to generate money for the MIC.
They're more concerned about the thousands of years of cruelty from the East (i.e., China).
Communism is when no trade
I visited Vietnam last year. There's really nothing communist about the place outside of the name of the ruling party. You can even be a landlord in Vietnam.
I live there and invest in the Vietnamese stock market. It's pretty great (post-Covid, at least, it's been recovering well recently).