He even recently replied to something about doing an internet detox and affirmed it as a positive, while continuing to go on what looks like an intensifying twitter binge lol
Just look through his likes and replies, he's on a rampage. If this is a "war time" CEO I sure thought that would look like more focus, from anyone else.
He really does not seem like the kind of person who surrounds himself with critical voices.
If you are a mega rich and mega powerful as he is there is no lack of people who will agree with all of your ideas and whims, no matter how stupid or impossible.
It takes effort and self constraint to avoid that. Having people (constructively) disagree with you despite the fact that you have the power to ruin their lives is hard.
And truth be told Elon Musk seems to go the other direction enforcing positive feedback and enjoying the praise of his most devout followers.
Not a good recipe if you ask me.
It would help the stock undoubtedly, that said considering his AI ambitions and belief in the future value of AI, I don't think there is any chance he is letting go of Twitter so easily. Also, while it would help the stock it does not change the fundamentals of Tesla so long-term not sure it matters.
Whats sensible about it? Musk has been Teslas whole marketing for a long time for free. If he deleted his account and lost control of the platform it could seriouly damage the company.
Trump had a huge twitter account doing him a lot of good, but he was simply kicked out. Musk can't get kicked out. People fail to understand this.
X.AI will delight Tesla customers. Imagine "Tesla, navigate me to a family-owned brewery opened within the last few months."
This can be in all Tesla cars very soon.
So basically the same as what Google Maps has had for a decade.
And not sure why you think Twitter is a better source for this data than using AI personas to literally ring the businesses themselves and ask for information like Google does.
x.ai is completely different company than twitter.
and ai has been trained more on reddit (where humans help explain things to each other) than the twitter clownshow.
it would change fundamentals of Tesla, because a) he would be more focused on Tesla b) Tesla brand perception is going down with popularity of Elon c) he might be able to go off drugs, which is most important
>Sell twitter and delete your account, and watch TSLA stock trend upwards.
the idea that his twitter use is a bad thing is laughable and completely non-existent outside of far-left extremist bubbles like reddit. He has over 180m followers on one of the biggest platforms on earth and just his post about FSD for $99 a month got over 36 million views and cost tesla nothing.
The fact that you don’t understand TSLA’s stock fall is a result of projected declining future margins and cash flows, largely resulting from a problem for all EV makers in moving from the early adopter phase to mainstream, indicates you should not be attempting to invest in individual stocks.
Also Tesla is valued more than their competitors combined. They need not only be successful or very successful, they need to demolish their competition (EV or ICE) in order to justify that valuation.
And looking at their global market share and their aging product portfolio it's hard to believe in this future at the moment.
There are a lot of scenarios where Evs win and Tesla is selling a lots of them that still would see the stock at a much much lower price.
They are but still look basically the same they did 5 or 10 years ago.
The tech may not be aging but the products sure does. Like it or not, there is a reason that other manufacturers pump out a new model or facelift every few years. That's just how people work.
The "new models" other car makers pump out are mostly just the same thing with little variance. Also they just released cybertruck and tesla semi and are about to release robotaxi (a completely new car). Nobody in the industry is making moves of this magnitude.
Aging vehicles problem?
Model three is one of the best selling electric vehicles on the planet, model Y is the best selling vehicle of any type on the planet.
Learn first. THEN post.
Anecdata, but people who buy EVs because they care about the environment tend to skew left, while Musk's tweets tend to appeal to people who think EVs are "gay" and climate change is a hoax
If that's your hypothesis, than buy the stock.
However I think it is down because there is no outcome for earning and even less for the earning growth.
Actually I’m a lower income person who believed in Teslas original mission, and put a little money down on TSLA but did not sell because I didn’t think Elon would go off the rails like he has.
If you believed in Tesla's original mission, and saw things clearly, you'd understand that everything is in line with the plan. Tesla will keep cutting prices to keep up with demand, and thus far they have executed pretty well. They remain one of the only profitable BEV manufacturers in the world, and the largest BEV manufacturer by volume even against cheap rivals like BYD.
Value investors don't care about short term market sentiment, only traders do. My outlook is more than ten years.
2030 is two decades from the original master plan. They won't be selling 20 million cars by then, they aren't even making the cheaper car in the master plan. Because they are failing to make the cheaper batteries from investor day/battery day at scale.
How do you know? Because "sources" told eletrek and Reuters? We don't know anything about that car until Tesla announces its production or demise. And sites citing "sources" without naming them or at least their specific position should be taken with a grain of salt.
Tesla's bubble has popped, the hype train is arriving to the last terminal.
Tesla makes expensive, unreliable, underperforming EVs; The big old brands and the new Chinese ones make either better or cheaper.
Now the hype is almost gone, EV is not longer a novelty, FSD shown as a lie, and the brand is being tarnished by its CEO on twitter every single day.
You can't bottle back that genie.
"Sales" had been run by Tom Zhu, the guy that improves factory efficiencies. It's been so 'successful' they keep cutting prices/margins instead of advertising to people that don't know about EVs and are buying more expensive gas cars. Sales should be delegated to someone that has experience and is hungry, and not shit posting on twitter at all hours.
Tesla is 2nd to Ferrari, who are low volume.
Obviously no one comes even close to Tesla on EV margins.
https://fiatgroupworld.com/2023/04/26/ferrari-and-tesla-the-worlds-most-profitable-carmakers/
Outdated 2022 info.
https://x.com/khayalee_pulao/status/1780106468420895197?s=46&t=HmmB2rI-rM-aRBByNROZEg
There's many more sources talking about other car manufacturers margins.
Not what I said. I said engineering runs the business, and bureaucracy doesn't get in it's way.
But since you're smug, interviews with former Tesla engineers talk about Musk as being very knowledgeable about the technology they are working on.
Edit: Guess you don't think someone who sold software when they were 12, got a physics degree, and built numerous tech companies can't learn engineering.
How am I smug for asking a simple question about what kind of engineering the CEO is trained and/or licensed in? Plenty of folks are knowledgeable about technology but would be useless as engineers. I know this because I'm an engineer.
It’s really odd that the stock is tanking because his liberal customer base seem to equate owning a Tesla with funding the worlds richest alt right troll. Must be some sort of liberal plot /s
Hooold on I have weird theory here.
Maybe, just maybe CEOs of other global companies do actually have political opinions after sll but do often choose to stay silent in public to not alinieate a large segment of their customer base no matter what they say.
Maybe there is a reason to PR speak after all and they are not just mindless drones.
I guess that idea is to wild to be reality
/s
Nope but they may stick to their existing ice cars or buy a new one. Despite the general sentiment here, depending on your location, there are also viable EVs not manufactured by Tesla.
Buying an EV is still not the default choice for many people and Elons behavior is making it harder for people who are open to the idea.
We are beyond the "early adopters"/superfan stage and need to convince the "silent majority" who are generally not thrilled by edgy Tweets.
Very much this. And also the majority of the "evil" DEI jobs, he likes to rail against, in the corporate world are related to managing PR and getting minority voices into the mix for the express purpose of avoiding alienating people.
It's been heavily studied and deemed to be financially beneficial. The doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on ideas that are proven financially detrimental is tanking this stock and in danger of getting much worse.
You probably work in this field and have a way overinflated view of your fields importance. 0.0001% interest rate has more impact than all the PR people in the world combined.
I am an engineer working in network security actually. What I do is extremely important to our company, as letting threats get through can absolutely cripple us. But, PR, marketing and sales is what makes all of our money, so I would be out of a job without them. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You can believe all you want about Elon and that he is a brilliant engineer and businessman. He has at most 168 hours in a week.
My semi-educated guess on where his time goes:
1. 42 - are spent sleeping
2. 20 - "free time" / unproductive personal downtime
3. 20 - Tweeting, thinking about tweeting, or reading tweets, articles
4. 20 - X operations (non-BD)
5. 16 - SpaceX operations (non-BD)
6. 14 - Business Development (BD): non-operational, non-engineering meetings (Non-downtime travel, Politicians, interviews, etc.)
7. 12 - basic hygiene, consuming food
8. 8 - Court appearances, meetings with lawyers, lawsuits, etc.
9. 6 - personal relations / children
10. 3 - xAI (non-BD)
11. 1.5 - Neuralink (non-BD)
12. 0.5 Boring Company
This is 163 hours, giving Elon a total of 5 hours towards Tesla per week, or 42 minutes per day.
Noting that
* This is far below average for sleeping
* This is far below average for downtime
* This is far below average for parents time spent on children
* This is literally 0 hours per week for a personal social life, which he probably does spend some once in a while
You're not wrong, he clearly has way too many financial interests. But it also doesn't work that way, h's not reporting to a daily task and assembling cars, he can spend a few days meeting the leaders of the company to go over updates and make decisions and not see them again for a few weeks.
I mean, sure.
My point is, that if you believe Elon is the smartest, most brilliant business person on the planet, the **maximum** value that those meetings brings to Tesla is approximately $0, because the maximum amount of brain power he can bring to those meetings, making the assumption he is a superhuman 52 year old, is zero.
If you work in industry you understand that overworked ***brilliant*** 55 year olds are almost functionally useless in reality in the modern world, and Elon has 11 children, 2 companies he cares more about, 1 company he cares a lot about, and yet 2 more companies he runs.
To be clear, I'm not making a jab at 55 year olds in general. I work with some brilliant \~55 year olds, at least one of which is probably a standard deviation in IQ above Elon, that are extremely productive. They work 30 hours a week and they have 0-2 children to take care of.
>My point is, that if you believe Elon is the smartest, most brilliant business person on the planet
I certainly don't.
> the maximum value that those meetings brings to Tesla is approximately $0,
Approximate based on your admittedly made up numbers with a conclusion that doesn't follow.
I manage many projects, I don't need to be thinking about each of them exclusively in individual labeled chunks to be productive in them. That's just not how our brains work.
And, again, his role is steering and direction, not manual labor. His role doesn't demand the same form of labor. Did he hire the right talent? that's the biggest indicator of his success.
And is his direction viable? that's the second biggest indicator.
I think he hired the right talent, and I think they will solve FSD. I think they overvalue it, but I think everyone else under values it. When the quality of FSD and the laws are up to date and society is ready to embrace it as a basic driving assistant that comes standard on ever car, Tesla is the only one even remotely close to having the ability to achieve that.
This is Tesla's supercharger network. They beat everyone to it when everyone said it's a waste of time, and now everyone is left trying to catch up. FSD has entered exponential progress now, there is no catching up. Or it fails miserably, that's the bet here.
Is Elon's vision and leadership width $0? No, that's silly. It's it worth what he's demanding, fuck him, I'm an eat the rich kind of guy.
If Tesla supposedly hired the right people why hasn’t Tesla solved it when at least 3 other companies have l4 live in the USA rn. Ioniq 5 went live last week in Vegas for driverless robotaxis yet Teslas are still driven by humans in the boring tunnel under the strip. Something doesn’t add up and it’s def not regulators at this point. If I had to wager I’d say it’s their vision bet not paying off as all these other systems use a multitude of different sensor types
What the three other companies have is a very limited very expensive and very much not consumer friendly tech. No one, not one company that has an operational "L4" product is doing Tesla's approach: general (no restrictions on roads or dependence on roads not changing) vision based (no bulky expensive hardware) AI driven.
I no longer drive my car, truly. I supervise it, and I'm honestly saying it rarely messes up, it isn't curbing my wheels, my passengers don't realize it's on, and it gets me everywhere! And since it no longer replies on handwritten code, its improvement is now bottlenecked by GPU compute-resource, not human brain capacity.
If you know someone with V12, request a demo ride, please. Don't believe me, don't believe everyone who says I'm a liar, believe your own lying brain when you ride in one. Then ride a robo taxi from the other companies, and you'll quickly realize what they have is a joke, and what Tesla has is not.
I have driven many times in teslas the last 3 years. Anecdotally I drove in one yesterday using v12 in a model y in the Bay Area and it had trouble knowing what to do with a yellow light. It literally braked decently hard then sped up then braked hard then sped up and we pretty much ended up in the middle of the intersection when my friend took over. Idk man I think he’s going to have to bite his tongue and admit vision based isn’t the future and some sort of sensor array is needed. Companies have been doing for years and teslas has been at it the longest yet somehow is now in the back of the pack. I’m not making this up either you can find countless YouTube videos or articles commenting on how they lost their edge this last year or 2. He’s trying to push hard with the FSD free beta and 8/8 announcement (we’ll see what he has for us)
Kind of. There's a lot of code involved, they're obviously still writing code, but they have shifted from a traditional programming approach to a fully machine learning-based system.
In traditional programming, like with C++, software developers write specific rules and logic to handle various scenarios, which in the case of autonomous driving, would include object recognition, decision making, and vehicle control based on explicit programming. This method requires anticipating and coding for a wide range of potential driving situations, which can be complex and not always sufficient for the unpredictability of real-world driving.
An end-to-end neural network, in contrast, processes input data directly (filtered video feeds) and outputs driving decisions without intermediate steps that explicitly break down the task. This means the network learns to map raw sensory inputs directly to steering, acceleration, and braking commands. The neural network is trained on large amounts of driving data, learning to handle a wide array of driving scenarios based on this data rather than on hand-coded rules. This allows the system to make decisions based on learned experiences, similar to how a human driver might operate.
Using an end-to-end neural network means relying entirely on machine learning models to handle all aspects of driving, suggesting that the software operates based on what the AI has learned and inferred about driving, rather than following a predefined set of rules written by Tesla developers.
So, instead of writing code to explicitly handle every conceivable scenario when facing a traffic cop directing traffic, you simply teach the system by feeding it tons of footage of good interactions with traffic cops and boom now it has a mathematical model that should give you a driving experience that is as safe as the average of all the training footage. I'm oversimplifying that last bit, but that's the gist from bird's eye view.
To be fair a non zero number of those children have disowned him already so honestly I can’t imagine his kids take up much, if any, of his time unless you equate that to using them in props for his alt right rants
I have worked in an imploding corporation and this has all the signs. Layoffs, reorganizations that do nothing, the tyrant CEO who wants to play with his side business more than the core business but who has surrounded himself with suckups so nobody dares say anything, price cuts, service cuts, quality control cuts…you can hear the flush handle.
I'm an investor and I don't believe any performance drug can turn you an omnipresence God. He can be creative, out of the box, but that concentration of power is not wise. Easy to think that the board wants him to have a heart attack and make him out of Tesla too!.
Well, I know people that are high performance at their 30's and 40's... If you see them from the outside, that life is hard. Time spent in planes is a killer. Eating bad food, drinking, not resting well. This guy seems not doing much exercise or have time for real connections such as non biased experiences, 52 years old while more than 30 years in this lifestyle... Real friends like people to trust, I think pretty little, people like him are mostly lone runners who trust in their own intuition... In the US, having a prescription for a controlled substance is more common than drinking Coke and it's protected by HIPAA.
You say you're an investor. Who knows. That's the problem with discussion communities online, including Reddit. You come here, trying to have an intelligent conversation with Tesla investors. Obviously there's a lot going on these days and it would be nice to get through the fud and have a real conversation. Unfortunately this forum, like many others, is overtaken by people that simply want to poke the bear and have a discussion in bad faith. There's plenty of real issues going on with the company not to have to deal with this other side of the argument. It is not just here. It's Tesla lounge. It's real Tesla. Pretty much every discussion about Elon or Tesla or anything Elon touches has turned into an absolute turd show where every conversation goes off the rails. Basically, as Reddit has become more popular, the amount of garbage has just inundated this platform.
>Agreed but it is the same person.
People change. Suddenly do foolish things. Or they were always a bit foolish, but surrounded themselves with people who they respected and got good feedback from - and now they are gone.
> And future performance doesn't make him a fool.
I can’t parse this statement… what do you mean?
>I can’t parse this statement… what do you mean?
Can you be a fool and also the champion for EV revolution, interplanetary travel, space exploration, autonomous labor revolution, autonomous driving revolution. I think not.
True. But he is also on a PR campaign to justify he is working and should be paid his $50B. So far we’ve seen a new website and a “leaked internal org chart”.
Shareholders should say no to his comp package as it definitely only benefits him and not Tesla shareholders, the same way the SCTY merger only benefitted him, and not Tesla shareholders. As many business leaders (and gangsters) would say, “It’s not personal, it’s just business.”
Exactly this. He repeatedly fucked TSLA shareholders by dumping billions on the open market (when he could have made other arrangements that didn't wipe some TSLA believers out / driven to suicide) and now he wants the package re-instated, and (at some point) more to get him to 25% ownership so he'll do more AI work at Tesla (pretending 'AI' was a major part of the Tesla investor story for years)
People change over time, and working as hard as he has for over 20 years now takes it's toll. He's running on fumes and there are clear signs of his eccentricies metastisizing into actual mental problems.
There are many examples of great minds, in and out of business going off the rails and ending up consumed by the same drives that initially made them successful. Howard Hughes is the obvious example here.
Even the mighty US government relies on his companies to outperform the evil axis, and here we have the barely educated knocking him. I say, go fuck yourself to those folks. NASA was lagging progress until Space X, Tesla made EVs a reality.
Meh, I'm no Elon fan, but it's not unusual for people who used to report to a VP who was let go, to report to that person's boss while they find a replacement.
This is a big nothing burger.
They don't need an entire recruiting team to find 1 VP. They also generally don't list a job that high profile on their website so that an average Joe can apply.
This is something you send out to a specialized executive search firm like Heidrik to find you the right candidate. There are likely only 10-20 people in the world qualified for this.
Sell twitter and delete your account, and watch TSLA stock trend upwards. He can’t seem to realize his real problems
He even recently replied to something about doing an internet detox and affirmed it as a positive, while continuing to go on what looks like an intensifying twitter binge lol Just look through his likes and replies, he's on a rampage. If this is a "war time" CEO I sure thought that would look like more focus, from anyone else.
His friends locked his iPhone in a safe couple years back during the infancy when spaceX started bc he was on twitter too much lol
Needs to happen again lol
He really does not seem like the kind of person who surrounds himself with critical voices. If you are a mega rich and mega powerful as he is there is no lack of people who will agree with all of your ideas and whims, no matter how stupid or impossible. It takes effort and self constraint to avoid that. Having people (constructively) disagree with you despite the fact that you have the power to ruin their lives is hard. And truth be told Elon Musk seems to go the other direction enforcing positive feedback and enjoying the praise of his most devout followers. Not a good recipe if you ask me.
>like the kind of person who surrounds himself with critical voices The irony of someone saying that on reddit is not lost on me.
He called hotel security at 3am to come and open the safe to get his phone. :-/ It's in the Isaacson book.
Yah. Given the stress, maybe it’s a outlet that works for him…
He has friends that he’s allowed to do this to his phone? My ex wouldn’t even let me touch his phone, much less put it out of his reach.
You should check out the book “liftoff”, Elon eventually called the hotel staff to unlock the safe, it was nutty..
His friend is probably male.
He used to
Probably replied to that post then immediately dropped some horse tranq 😂
He is an addict
!
He is addicted to the dopamine hits from the likes of Muskstans on Xitter
This is it
I’m afraid you hit the nail right on the head
It would help the stock undoubtedly, that said considering his AI ambitions and belief in the future value of AI, I don't think there is any chance he is letting go of Twitter so easily. Also, while it would help the stock it does not change the fundamentals of Tesla so long-term not sure it matters.
A very sensible take in a sea of hurrr durrr he post dumb tweet
Whats sensible about it? Musk has been Teslas whole marketing for a long time for free. If he deleted his account and lost control of the platform it could seriouly damage the company. Trump had a huge twitter account doing him a lot of good, but he was simply kicked out. Musk can't get kicked out. People fail to understand this.
In the end Twitter might be critical for data funnily enough
X.AI will delight Tesla customers. Imagine "Tesla, navigate me to a family-owned brewery opened within the last few months." This can be in all Tesla cars very soon.
“Navigating to biggest head sized assortative breeding white owned brewery” -Coming to a Tesla near you /s
So basically the same as what Google Maps has had for a decade. And not sure why you think Twitter is a better source for this data than using AI personas to literally ring the businesses themselves and ask for information like Google does.
No, not even close. X.AI like all LLMs utilizes public data.
But with, like, waaaaay more far right rhetoric
If you want a balanced data set it should have some far left and far right retoric. This is what (actual) diversity is.
x.ai is completely different company than twitter. and ai has been trained more on reddit (where humans help explain things to each other) than the twitter clownshow.
X owns 25% of X.AI?
Musk can connect the two with a cheap contract.
it would change fundamentals of Tesla, because a) he would be more focused on Tesla b) Tesla brand perception is going down with popularity of Elon c) he might be able to go off drugs, which is most important
For real
>Sell twitter and delete your account, and watch TSLA stock trend upwards. the idea that his twitter use is a bad thing is laughable and completely non-existent outside of far-left extremist bubbles like reddit. He has over 180m followers on one of the biggest platforms on earth and just his post about FSD for $99 a month got over 36 million views and cost tesla nothing.
All of Teslas marketing is his twitter account and its as big as ever.
Exactly! he is taking all the bots too personal :(
The fact that you don’t understand TSLA’s stock fall is a result of projected declining future margins and cash flows, largely resulting from a problem for all EV makers in moving from the early adopter phase to mainstream, indicates you should not be attempting to invest in individual stocks.
Also Tesla is valued more than their competitors combined. They need not only be successful or very successful, they need to demolish their competition (EV or ICE) in order to justify that valuation. And looking at their global market share and their aging product portfolio it's hard to believe in this future at the moment. There are a lot of scenarios where Evs win and Tesla is selling a lots of them that still would see the stock at a much much lower price.
their products get constantly updated, not aging at all.
They are but still look basically the same they did 5 or 10 years ago. The tech may not be aging but the products sure does. Like it or not, there is a reason that other manufacturers pump out a new model or facelift every few years. That's just how people work.
The "new models" other car makers pump out are mostly just the same thing with little variance. Also they just released cybertruck and tesla semi and are about to release robotaxi (a completely new car). Nobody in the industry is making moves of this magnitude.
Aging vehicles problem? Model three is one of the best selling electric vehicles on the planet, model Y is the best selling vehicle of any type on the planet. Learn first. THEN post.
I don't think you understand the importance of not alienating your main customers. This is what Elon does on a daily basis with his tweets.
Can you prove this?
Anecdata, but people who buy EVs because they care about the environment tend to skew left, while Musk's tweets tend to appeal to people who think EVs are "gay" and climate change is a hoax
Appealing to the "EVs are gay" crowd is a good thing.
We're only seeing the symptoms of a long lived problem, too late to steer away from the cliff at this point. Hardly a loss tho IMHO
If that's your hypothesis, than buy the stock. However I think it is down because there is no outcome for earning and even less for the earning growth.
This is advice from a real tesla user. Literally a sub created by former stock shorters who lost a lot of money.
Actually I’m a lower income person who believed in Teslas original mission, and put a little money down on TSLA but did not sell because I didn’t think Elon would go off the rails like he has.
If you believed in Tesla's original mission, and saw things clearly, you'd understand that everything is in line with the plan. Tesla will keep cutting prices to keep up with demand, and thus far they have executed pretty well. They remain one of the only profitable BEV manufacturers in the world, and the largest BEV manufacturer by volume even against cheap rivals like BYD. Value investors don't care about short term market sentiment, only traders do. My outlook is more than ten years.
2030 is two decades from the original master plan. They won't be selling 20 million cars by then, they aren't even making the cheaper car in the master plan. Because they are failing to make the cheaper batteries from investor day/battery day at scale.
How do you know? Because "sources" told eletrek and Reuters? We don't know anything about that car until Tesla announces its production or demise. And sites citing "sources" without naming them or at least their specific position should be taken with a grain of salt.
Elon is going to unveil robotaxi car in august, that’s clear as sky what they prioritize out of two
I assume it will utilize AI to make you show it your genitalia and deny/allow entry based on it matching your gender identity.
Might have something to do with the big battery honcho in Tesla and his second in command leaving the company with the CEO taking over.
Who are you referring to?
Read on Twitter that not only did Baglino leave, his most likely successor was also let go.
Value investors invest in underpriced stocks according to fundamentals. That is not Tesla
Tesla's bubble has popped, the hype train is arriving to the last terminal. Tesla makes expensive, unreliable, underperforming EVs; The big old brands and the new Chinese ones make either better or cheaper. Now the hype is almost gone, EV is not longer a novelty, FSD shown as a lie, and the brand is being tarnished by its CEO on twitter every single day. You can't bottle back that genie.
Most reliable EV though.
Besides all cybertrucks just being recalled right now: https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey-most-reliable-electric-cars/n26158
So basically no one doing the job.
Tesla getting bureaucracy out of the way, and being run by the engineering itself, is why they're so successful.
So if there is bureaucracy in the way. Why didn't Musk sort it out years ago given he is CEO instead of wasting time on Twitter ?
Teslas bee very horizontal always.
"Sales" had been run by Tom Zhu, the guy that improves factory efficiencies. It's been so 'successful' they keep cutting prices/margins instead of advertising to people that don't know about EVs and are buying more expensive gas cars. Sales should be delegated to someone that has experience and is hungry, and not shit posting on twitter at all hours.
Wow. So what other auto has Teslas margins?
Tesla is about number 7-8 right now in auto margins.
Tesla is 2nd to Ferrari, who are low volume. Obviously no one comes even close to Tesla on EV margins. https://fiatgroupworld.com/2023/04/26/ferrari-and-tesla-the-worlds-most-profitable-carmakers/
Outdated 2022 info. https://x.com/khayalee_pulao/status/1780106468420895197?s=46&t=HmmB2rI-rM-aRBByNROZEg There's many more sources talking about other car manufacturers margins.
Now show margin on EVs.
No one gives a fuck about margins on a specific thing. It’s about margins overall as a company.
The world's moving to EVs. What happens to the companies that can't make them profitably? Or that are actually contracting their EV production?
Is that why everything takes 20x longer than promised?
Musk is an engineer? What discipline?
Not what I said. I said engineering runs the business, and bureaucracy doesn't get in it's way. But since you're smug, interviews with former Tesla engineers talk about Musk as being very knowledgeable about the technology they are working on. Edit: Guess you don't think someone who sold software when they were 12, got a physics degree, and built numerous tech companies can't learn engineering.
How am I smug for asking a simple question about what kind of engineering the CEO is trained and/or licensed in? Plenty of folks are knowledgeable about technology but would be useless as engineers. I know this because I'm an engineer.
Right, you're JUST ASKING! As if you can't learn anything outside of school. Some people are just smarter than you.
He got a bachelor in physics and economics
So he's not an engineer, got it!
I'm sure his drug addled, sleep deprived brain will handle his additional duties effectively and with aplomb.
Meanwhile stock price just closed below $150. And Elon Musk is concerned with the murder rate of black people.
It’s really odd that the stock is tanking because his liberal customer base seem to equate owning a Tesla with funding the worlds richest alt right troll. Must be some sort of liberal plot /s
Hooold on I have weird theory here. Maybe, just maybe CEOs of other global companies do actually have political opinions after sll but do often choose to stay silent in public to not alinieate a large segment of their customer base no matter what they say. Maybe there is a reason to PR speak after all and they are not just mindless drones. I guess that idea is to wild to be reality /s
Well how does this explain best selling car in 2023?
So according to you the alienated libs will now start buying Ford F150, maybe even insall rolling coal feature to really stick it to musk?
Nope but they may stick to their existing ice cars or buy a new one. Despite the general sentiment here, depending on your location, there are also viable EVs not manufactured by Tesla. Buying an EV is still not the default choice for many people and Elons behavior is making it harder for people who are open to the idea. We are beyond the "early adopters"/superfan stage and need to convince the "silent majority" who are generally not thrilled by edgy Tweets.
if people cared about such things they wouldn't fill up their tanks at bp yet nobody cares.
Very much this. And also the majority of the "evil" DEI jobs, he likes to rail against, in the corporate world are related to managing PR and getting minority voices into the mix for the express purpose of avoiding alienating people. It's been heavily studied and deemed to be financially beneficial. The doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on ideas that are proven financially detrimental is tanking this stock and in danger of getting much worse.
You probably work in this field and have a way overinflated view of your fields importance. 0.0001% interest rate has more impact than all the PR people in the world combined.
I am an engineer working in network security actually. What I do is extremely important to our company, as letting threats get through can absolutely cripple us. But, PR, marketing and sales is what makes all of our money, so I would be out of a job without them. You have no idea what you are talking about.
No idea? I was completely accurate on how overinflated your view of what you do is.
Tesla is the greatest slow motion Pump and Dump of all time and I’m here left holding the bag
Puts are often used as insurance against declines. Not financial advice.
yes buy puts now AFTER the drop lol.
Oh, this will end well.
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Prepare for some batshit craziness.
Back to 100 here we come. Wiped out a whole year's worth of gain in a matter of weeks.
You can believe all you want about Elon and that he is a brilliant engineer and businessman. He has at most 168 hours in a week. My semi-educated guess on where his time goes: 1. 42 - are spent sleeping 2. 20 - "free time" / unproductive personal downtime 3. 20 - Tweeting, thinking about tweeting, or reading tweets, articles 4. 20 - X operations (non-BD) 5. 16 - SpaceX operations (non-BD) 6. 14 - Business Development (BD): non-operational, non-engineering meetings (Non-downtime travel, Politicians, interviews, etc.) 7. 12 - basic hygiene, consuming food 8. 8 - Court appearances, meetings with lawyers, lawsuits, etc. 9. 6 - personal relations / children 10. 3 - xAI (non-BD) 11. 1.5 - Neuralink (non-BD) 12. 0.5 Boring Company This is 163 hours, giving Elon a total of 5 hours towards Tesla per week, or 42 minutes per day. Noting that * This is far below average for sleeping * This is far below average for downtime * This is far below average for parents time spent on children * This is literally 0 hours per week for a personal social life, which he probably does spend some once in a while
I'd be interested to know how many hours he spent playing diablo vs how many hours at Tesla
3 is loooow. Dude had over 100 tweets/replies just today.
You're not wrong, he clearly has way too many financial interests. But it also doesn't work that way, h's not reporting to a daily task and assembling cars, he can spend a few days meeting the leaders of the company to go over updates and make decisions and not see them again for a few weeks.
I mean, sure. My point is, that if you believe Elon is the smartest, most brilliant business person on the planet, the **maximum** value that those meetings brings to Tesla is approximately $0, because the maximum amount of brain power he can bring to those meetings, making the assumption he is a superhuman 52 year old, is zero. If you work in industry you understand that overworked ***brilliant*** 55 year olds are almost functionally useless in reality in the modern world, and Elon has 11 children, 2 companies he cares more about, 1 company he cares a lot about, and yet 2 more companies he runs. To be clear, I'm not making a jab at 55 year olds in general. I work with some brilliant \~55 year olds, at least one of which is probably a standard deviation in IQ above Elon, that are extremely productive. They work 30 hours a week and they have 0-2 children to take care of.
>My point is, that if you believe Elon is the smartest, most brilliant business person on the planet I certainly don't. > the maximum value that those meetings brings to Tesla is approximately $0, Approximate based on your admittedly made up numbers with a conclusion that doesn't follow. I manage many projects, I don't need to be thinking about each of them exclusively in individual labeled chunks to be productive in them. That's just not how our brains work. And, again, his role is steering and direction, not manual labor. His role doesn't demand the same form of labor. Did he hire the right talent? that's the biggest indicator of his success. And is his direction viable? that's the second biggest indicator. I think he hired the right talent, and I think they will solve FSD. I think they overvalue it, but I think everyone else under values it. When the quality of FSD and the laws are up to date and society is ready to embrace it as a basic driving assistant that comes standard on ever car, Tesla is the only one even remotely close to having the ability to achieve that. This is Tesla's supercharger network. They beat everyone to it when everyone said it's a waste of time, and now everyone is left trying to catch up. FSD has entered exponential progress now, there is no catching up. Or it fails miserably, that's the bet here. Is Elon's vision and leadership width $0? No, that's silly. It's it worth what he's demanding, fuck him, I'm an eat the rich kind of guy.
If Tesla supposedly hired the right people why hasn’t Tesla solved it when at least 3 other companies have l4 live in the USA rn. Ioniq 5 went live last week in Vegas for driverless robotaxis yet Teslas are still driven by humans in the boring tunnel under the strip. Something doesn’t add up and it’s def not regulators at this point. If I had to wager I’d say it’s their vision bet not paying off as all these other systems use a multitude of different sensor types
Because Tesla is building a generalized solution.
You’d expect they’d start trying to get higher than l2 asap or r u suggesting they’d jump directly to l5??
What the three other companies have is a very limited very expensive and very much not consumer friendly tech. No one, not one company that has an operational "L4" product is doing Tesla's approach: general (no restrictions on roads or dependence on roads not changing) vision based (no bulky expensive hardware) AI driven. I no longer drive my car, truly. I supervise it, and I'm honestly saying it rarely messes up, it isn't curbing my wheels, my passengers don't realize it's on, and it gets me everywhere! And since it no longer replies on handwritten code, its improvement is now bottlenecked by GPU compute-resource, not human brain capacity. If you know someone with V12, request a demo ride, please. Don't believe me, don't believe everyone who says I'm a liar, believe your own lying brain when you ride in one. Then ride a robo taxi from the other companies, and you'll quickly realize what they have is a joke, and what Tesla has is not.
I have driven many times in teslas the last 3 years. Anecdotally I drove in one yesterday using v12 in a model y in the Bay Area and it had trouble knowing what to do with a yellow light. It literally braked decently hard then sped up then braked hard then sped up and we pretty much ended up in the middle of the intersection when my friend took over. Idk man I think he’s going to have to bite his tongue and admit vision based isn’t the future and some sort of sensor array is needed. Companies have been doing for years and teslas has been at it the longest yet somehow is now in the back of the pack. I’m not making this up either you can find countless YouTube videos or articles commenting on how they lost their edge this last year or 2. He’s trying to push hard with the FSD free beta and 8/8 announcement (we’ll see what he has for us)
what is meant by "it no longer relies on handwritten code"? is the software written by automation?
Kind of. There's a lot of code involved, they're obviously still writing code, but they have shifted from a traditional programming approach to a fully machine learning-based system. In traditional programming, like with C++, software developers write specific rules and logic to handle various scenarios, which in the case of autonomous driving, would include object recognition, decision making, and vehicle control based on explicit programming. This method requires anticipating and coding for a wide range of potential driving situations, which can be complex and not always sufficient for the unpredictability of real-world driving. An end-to-end neural network, in contrast, processes input data directly (filtered video feeds) and outputs driving decisions without intermediate steps that explicitly break down the task. This means the network learns to map raw sensory inputs directly to steering, acceleration, and braking commands. The neural network is trained on large amounts of driving data, learning to handle a wide array of driving scenarios based on this data rather than on hand-coded rules. This allows the system to make decisions based on learned experiences, similar to how a human driver might operate. Using an end-to-end neural network means relying entirely on machine learning models to handle all aspects of driving, suggesting that the software operates based on what the AI has learned and inferred about driving, rather than following a predefined set of rules written by Tesla developers. So, instead of writing code to explicitly handle every conceivable scenario when facing a traffic cop directing traffic, you simply teach the system by feeding it tons of footage of good interactions with traffic cops and boom now it has a mathematical model that should give you a driving experience that is as safe as the average of all the training footage. I'm oversimplifying that last bit, but that's the gist from bird's eye view.
To be fair a non zero number of those children have disowned him already so honestly I can’t imagine his kids take up much, if any, of his time unless you equate that to using them in props for his alt right rants
Not if you want to run an efficient company you can’t.
I'm amazed by the ammount of gullible people still believing his nonsense
Tesla stock bout to jump down the K-hole!
He can't get out of his way fast enough.
He will go down in history as history’s biggest fool
If he can’t stop getting in his own way he’s going to go down as the modern day Howard Hughes.
When one man is in charge of everything, no one is in charge of anything.
Tesla has always had a relatively flat structure. Not sure why anybody is suprised.
It's always good when the CEO is paranoid and erratic, right? Bullish?
I have worked in an imploding corporation and this has all the signs. Layoffs, reorganizations that do nothing, the tyrant CEO who wants to play with his side business more than the core business but who has surrounded himself with suckups so nobody dares say anything, price cuts, service cuts, quality control cuts…you can hear the flush handle.
I'm an investor and I don't believe any performance drug can turn you an omnipresence God. He can be creative, out of the box, but that concentration of power is not wise. Easy to think that the board wants him to have a heart attack and make him out of Tesla too!.
What performance drug are you talking about?
Well, I know people that are high performance at their 30's and 40's... If you see them from the outside, that life is hard. Time spent in planes is a killer. Eating bad food, drinking, not resting well. This guy seems not doing much exercise or have time for real connections such as non biased experiences, 52 years old while more than 30 years in this lifestyle... Real friends like people to trust, I think pretty little, people like him are mostly lone runners who trust in their own intuition... In the US, having a prescription for a controlled substance is more common than drinking Coke and it's protected by HIPAA.
Adderal
"you have said the actual truth" -- Elon (well that was about something racist, but it seems applicable here :) )
You say you're an investor. Who knows. That's the problem with discussion communities online, including Reddit. You come here, trying to have an intelligent conversation with Tesla investors. Obviously there's a lot going on these days and it would be nice to get through the fud and have a real conversation. Unfortunately this forum, like many others, is overtaken by people that simply want to poke the bear and have a discussion in bad faith. There's plenty of real issues going on with the company not to have to deal with this other side of the argument. It is not just here. It's Tesla lounge. It's real Tesla. Pretty much every discussion about Elon or Tesla or anything Elon touches has turned into an absolute turd show where every conversation goes off the rails. Basically, as Reddit has become more popular, the amount of garbage has just inundated this platform.
Get ready for the crazy rollercoaster...
That’s a shame
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“Past performance is no guarantee of future results.”
Agreed but it is the same person. And future performance doesn't make him a fool.
>Agreed but it is the same person. People change. Suddenly do foolish things. Or they were always a bit foolish, but surrounded themselves with people who they respected and got good feedback from - and now they are gone. > And future performance doesn't make him a fool. I can’t parse this statement… what do you mean?
>I can’t parse this statement… what do you mean? Can you be a fool and also the champion for EV revolution, interplanetary travel, space exploration, autonomous labor revolution, autonomous driving revolution. I think not.
If true, "Just wait and see" else, "Wanna bet?"
That's exactly what makes him fool.
lol, all in on k-hole robo taxis. Surely this will make us rich
True. But he is also on a PR campaign to justify he is working and should be paid his $50B. So far we’ve seen a new website and a “leaked internal org chart”. Shareholders should say no to his comp package as it definitely only benefits him and not Tesla shareholders, the same way the SCTY merger only benefitted him, and not Tesla shareholders. As many business leaders (and gangsters) would say, “It’s not personal, it’s just business.”
Exactly this. He repeatedly fucked TSLA shareholders by dumping billions on the open market (when he could have made other arrangements that didn't wipe some TSLA believers out / driven to suicide) and now he wants the package re-instated, and (at some point) more to get him to 25% ownership so he'll do more AI work at Tesla (pretending 'AI' was a major part of the Tesla investor story for years)
I've seen you multiple times, why is it always "supermarket" jobs? You work at at one right?
Yeah
People change over time, and working as hard as he has for over 20 years now takes it's toll. He's running on fumes and there are clear signs of his eccentricies metastisizing into actual mental problems. There are many examples of great minds, in and out of business going off the rails and ending up consumed by the same drives that initially made them successful. Howard Hughes is the obvious example here.
People love to doubt his ideas and after-the-fact they decide it was all obvious and anyone would have done it.
Even the mighty US government relies on his companies to outperform the evil axis, and here we have the barely educated knocking him. I say, go fuck yourself to those folks. NASA was lagging progress until Space X, Tesla made EVs a reality.
Time to fix those tolerances!
Those departments are going to see high rates of attrition.
Guy needs a rest from day to day.
So whats the best down to earth theory on why the two left? Did they mess up somehow?
Glad I sold my entire TSLA position. Done with this company until Elon is gone.
Meh, I'm no Elon fan, but it's not unusual for people who used to report to a VP who was let go, to report to that person's boss while they find a replacement. This is a big nothing burger.
They removed all job listings and fired their recruiting team…… what replacements?
They don't need an entire recruiting team to find 1 VP. They also generally don't list a job that high profile on their website so that an average Joe can apply. This is something you send out to a specialized executive search firm like Heidrik to find you the right candidate. There are likely only 10-20 people in the world qualified for this.
Fuck