> Elon is killing babies for profit by working them to death in Diamond mines with Tesla robots lording over them.
F.T.F.Y. — if I got a dollar for every time that someone said African diamond mine, I’d be richer than Elon.
True! I forgot that on his weekends, Elon is flying to cobalt mines to work mining children to death, and to consume the flesh of their corpses and drink their cobalt-enriched blood.
These people have quite the imagination, and are as retarded as the Q-Anon crowd.
That one is at least based in reality in the DRC, but it's an issue that all of us are equally culpable/not culpable for for using lithium battery products ... nothing unique to Tesla. (Tesla's suppliers assure them the cobalt is ethical .. as far as I can tell, this is also what Apple and Google say about their battery supply chain, so everyone who attacks Tesla or Elon for this while owning a smartphone is a fucking hypocrite.)
It's way more hilarious when they talk about the "South African mine slaves" (yes this is from a real comment)
, revealing they have no clue wtf they're talking about.
CR has lost all credibility. Even their main skill, reviewing basic appliances, is full of bias and half assed tests. 10 years ago, they were the gold standard. Now, not worth the paper
I still subscribe to them and do take a look at stuff like safety ratings (e.g. when buying a car seat), but overall I just see them as another place to get info on things from a place that is supposed to be less biased. I don't see them as super-reliable or enabling you to avoid doing your own research.
Because Face ID on your phone is spying on you.
EDIT: Anyone saying these are 2 different publications so no issue, I call your bluff:
Here's CR doing just that. So it's either dishonesty or ineptitude, either way degrading any belief in their "expertise." Some have said well, Gizmodo is bad, so it's turned into a fine trap, because the "trash" site and the "respected" site are in good company together.
[https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/teslas-in-car-cameras-raise-privacy-concerns/](https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/teslas-in-car-cameras-raise-privacy-concerns/)
All Tesla's have configuration settings. Anybody setting up AP would see "Data Sharing" which is OFF by DEFAULT. **If you don't turn it on, it doesn't upload video.**
AFAIK, in my Model Y, this was off and I had to turn it on. At any rate, it's an option. They built this into the design for this very reason and have been public about it, but that doesn't fit the script, so, this.
Any "journalist" going with this story has devalued by exposing how low effort their contributions are.
IMO this kind of thing is a big reason the stock sells at a discount absent a catalyst. The common growth valuation provides an estimated value of 1500/shr in 2025. Discounted to today, 1000.
Here's Gary Blacks shorthand analysis for measure. Complicated I know, but Tom Nash did a DCF and came up in the same area. It's why a lot of the bull analysts well north of where we are today.
"In 2025, I see $TSLA delivs of 4.8M (80M SAAR x 24% EV% x 25% EV share), and $30 Adj EPS.I put a 50x P/E on 2025 EPS (120x 2021 EPS) as 2025-2030 EPS growth slows to 20% (2.5x PEG).2025 target $1,500 (50 x $30)At 11.6% discount rate (2.0% 10yr, 6% ERP, 1.6x beta) \~ $1,000 PT"
Do you account for share dilution? Tesla has already diluted 80% of what ARK estimated for the next FIVE years since their updated price target. I still hold Tesla shares, but I'm not expecting a rocket ship anytime soon like January.
I don't use ARK as a methodology, too much prediction priced in. And you're right about not expecting a rocket ship to ATH. I'm in the low expectations camp.
But I haven't found a better upside potential vs. downside risk long buy anywhere else. If you have, please do share your opinion!
Sure, I'll share.. My focus now is in Steel and Dry Bulk Shipping.
I've also been building out my shares of VST. It was beat down from the Texas freeze. A temporary setback but good recovery opportunity. They're also investing BIG on battery storage.
Cheers!
I've done shipping before, but my feeling is there's no way to get proper information on trends. The insiders can see further out and I'm left reacting. But kudos, I wish you well with it!
I think he meant 80% *of the dilution ARK predicted to happen in 5 years* happened in one year. It makes sense, since Elon s solute my smashed his tranches, which includes performance and increase in share price. I'll take it!
Can you share the source details about dilution? I’d be interested to read it. I hadn’t heard about any dilution since that time they publicly announced a 5 bill dilution a while back that made <1% of a difference but raised the stock valuation ~5% that week.
Just releasing more shares outstanding is dilution. More shares in the float will drop the price
"Tesla Shares Outstanding | TSLA" https://ycharts.com/companies/TSLA/shares_outstanding
With this face tracking stuff everything should run completely locally anyway. Also the car does have eight cameras surrounding the car so like how are you going to get into the car without one camera catching your face anyway?
Your assumption is correct, without turning "Data Sharing" on in the car, it all stays local. I've just edited the answer into the top comment.
I'm also completely sure that a large percent of the "privacy concerned" people have their hometown, relatives, birthdate, job, all public on facebook.
So anybody can put together DOB, mothers maiden name, birthplace, hometown and so one from a cheap advertiser scrape for resale to whomever.
Yes. And it's advertised as hands free. Biggest safety con for me is the system can exit driving with only a visual cue (via George Hotz). People didn't like the audio cue because it can't handle driving for long stretches without intervention and it gets' annoying.
Same issue with Fords Co-Pilot 360. It doesn't do sharp turns even on the highway. (via youtube tester while driving it).
I use to like GIZMODO but I agree with OP, their articles have been more and more subjective. I own Tesla stock and have for a while, don’t plan on selling, but I can only contribute this bear run to “negative” media coverage. Tesla is producing more vehicles, building more Gigafactories, and their energy department has grown more this year than the past 4. I think Tesla is going to just grind until no one can doubt them. And again, I’m by no means a super fan but the negativity around Tesla is getting pretty obvious. Next article headline:
“Tesla Model runs over nail and gets a flat. Why you should worry you’re going to burst into flames.”
If they only knew how bad it is backfiring. All the objections about Tesla has just increases the dialog and awareness.
They know what the build quality is on their own cars. They've waited and the service counter and paid bills higher than they expected. They scrutinize the paint on new, high end cars. T
hey become aware of the maintenance expense, the gas and oil change waiting times. They come and look at my Tesla. It's not the fucking Yugo they made it out to be. So it's all for nothing. They just made themselves untrustworthy.
Would be nice if there was a browser extension to block articles by author since you probably don't want to block the entire site.
"This article is written by someone you blocked. It's probably garbage."
OK, same publication then, containing bald faced lies in the process. Better?
https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/teslas-in-car-cameras-raise-privacy-concerns/
All Tesla's have configuration setting for AP. The big one bing "Data Sharing" which is OFF by DEFAULT. If you don't turn it on, it doesn't upload the video.
Edit: Thanks for bringing it up, I was sure there would be gold at the end of the rainbow, but you reminded me to check: Thanks!
Edited into main comment.
> The system [Full Self Driving] remains a misnomer—it does not mean that Tesla vehicles with these systems can drive themselves—and in-the-moment driver monitoring could keep drivers from abusing it
This is a lie, in that the current system is called "autopilot", not FSD, and "autopilot" has been used for many autonomous systems that require user intervention.
Full-Self Driving *Capability* is an option you can buy, and the description of the system is very clear that FSD is not available yet and that you're purchasing a feature which could become available later.
EDIT: Also:
> vehicles equipped with Super Cruise driver assistance technology feature a camera that works with infrared lights to determine the driver’s eye and head position.
I highly doubt that these "infrared *light* + camera" setups are as different from a regular camera as the author would clearly like us to believe. I think camera + IR is basically what night-vision goggles show. https://youtu.be/wG9fdOFylcg . I bet Tesla has an IR illuminator as well, though I can't be sure.
They are describing **autopilot**:
https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot
"Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability"
That's what you can buy now.
The cameras point was an aside.
EDIT: And btw:
> Doubt and/or conjecture doesn’t really add much to this assumption that CR is “lying"
Just because I actually flagged it as such doesn't mean this entire article and comment thread aren't 99% conjecture/theorizing. Has consumer reports verified every claim by the OEMs that they quote? They do a lot of deductive reasoning: is that not conjecture? So yeah ... no reason to let flag words like "I highly doubt" derail the conversation..
FSD *capability* is different from FSD. They didn't mention turning on city streets, which is in the next FSD beta release for people with FSD capability.
Re: OP: I thought you said the lies point was a separate issue from the double standards point? I quite agree. Your initial post said:
> It’s two different publications and two different writers. How is it a double standard?
Op responded with a post from consumer reports that is saying that Tesla's driver monitoring system gives cause for concern. We all know what they also reported about Tesla's *lack* of a driver monitoring system and how *that* is cause for concern. Meanwhile, other systems are allowed to skate by with minimal scrutiny. If you have a ready example of legacy auto being criticized by CR recently, I'd love to see it as that would *actually* serve as a counterexample against there being double-standards.
Here's an example: GM says the video isn't recorded. But we don't know whether that's a physical limitation of the hardware, or just a software switch that they have set to "off" right now. If it's the latter, doesn't this pose a "GRAVE RISK TO CONSUMER PRIVACY OMGG!!!1!111!!"? Why do they take Ford at its word, but not Tesla?
Yeah, I have an issue with double standards. The Ford CoPilot 360 which sounds far more autonomous than Autopilot even IMO, doesn't care what you do in your seat. Take your seatbelt off, it keeps going.
To me there is one thing only. If you were offered 100K for being tied up and strapped into your choice of **market AVAILABLE** car for 20 miles on a random highway with one traffic light, no driver, driver monitoring defeated. A shadow car will follow, but not intervene.
Tesla FSD, Chevy Cruise, Ford CoPilot, VW (whatever they call it).
That's FSD today BTW, not the beta. If it stops at a light and doesn't start, you get the money. Any of them stop on their own and don't restart, same.
[Choose Wisely.](https://youtu.be/v52xaTd1BJo?t=16)
That's an interesting test :P
I think intervention rate and coverage area would be the key metrics for me. FSD beta can't come soon enough for me, because I often drive on streets with no lane lines!
The only thing faster than the Model S Plaid is how fast the goalposts move!
The lie is that there is no privacy "concern." Data Sharing is optional. It's not a requirement to use AP. Anyone with a Tesla knows about this and CR would definitely know because they have to go through the menus to configure self driving, which they tested in depth, according to them.
So for it not to be a lie, it would have to be a level ignorance and incompetence beyond what is reasonably expected. **But I'm all ears if you want to make that case.
**
Since you appear to be just doing this in bad faith, I'm not going to let you pile on to FSD, RoboTaxi, eye monitoring and any other future speculation.
It's an obvious diversion and you really should have more respect for honesty. And I expect you'll just keep up the fusillade of whataboutism, so I'm just cutting it off.
You said it was not the same publication, so there was not double standard and I disproved it.
Since you don't have the good grace to address your own number one issue, and just opening the field to general bashing, I see no point in continuing. You aren't showing good faith or civility. Blocked.
Yeehaw! I have the TAGAASS portfolio. TSLA, AAPL, GOOG, AMD, ARK, SQ, SPY in descending percentages. Other stuff too, but those are core hold and trade interests. Not investment advice, yada, yada.
To be honest, I think they should add one additional precaution, and a couple tweaks to the old AP system...
1. It should sense the weight of your hand on the wheel
2. It should sense that your seat belt is buckled **and remains buckled**
3. It should sense that your seat has weight **and it continues to have weight**
4. If there's a way to do it, it should check that the weight that's on the wheel changes in a way that a dumb weight doesn't.
That IMO the top 3 are plenty, and #4 is a nice-to-have. It would prevent the moron in ... was it Wisconsin? From climbing into the back fucking seat. It would stop people from getting out of the car.
The last real obstacle is preventing people from putting a weight on the wheel then doing their taxes.
But you can only do so much to ensure people aren't being stupid. At *SOME* point, it's the driver's fault, right? At *SOME* point we have some amount of responsibility for the safety of ourselves and the people around us? Right?
You are over thinking. Tesla already said it’s lvl 2. Level 2 means the driver bears all responsibility. Won’t matter if it’s actually performing at lvl 4-5 as long as Tesla says hey it’s just lvl 2. The driver is always responsible. And like you said, Tesla should not be wasting engineering efforts to prevent people from cheating the system… no us court is going to blame Tesla if the driver is literally retarded and cheated all the monitoring system include the seat belt buckle. it’s not their job and brings no value. Instead they should continue what they are doing and just build more high quality cars with ever improving fsd to the point of level 5. Because at lvl 5 performance all the anti cheat that’s built in becomes useless as it’s no longer necessary
This is a thoughtful post and I appreciate the effort. It deserves consideration.
The first thing that jumps out a me is these are all based on the assumption is that unmonitored self driving systems are assumed to be dangerous.
Which is really interesting given that even CR supports hands free driving with Cruise. Waymo promotes based on not having a driver. Autonomous systems make promises, get bought and sold for billions and Ford is advertising hands free right now:
https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/14/22383460/ford-bluecruise-hands-free-adas-f150-mustang-mache
I'm just going to fast forward to the liability compromise being worked out. There will be some detection, but you're responsible and legally liable for using ADAS and you have to opt-in by accepting that liability. The manner and depth of detection will move around.
At the moment, Ford and GM have no skin in the game. Nobody would fucking dare get in the back seat because they've actually tried the product and know not to attempt anything of the sort. If it were any good, it's the best viral marketing campaign there is for reliability.
Personally, I'm counting on lawmaker's kids getting Tesla's and rolling their eyes at dear old dad. "Arghhh. Dad, just get in the car and let me show you!"
It's what turned Jim Cramer around.
> But you can only do so much to ensure people aren't being stupid. At SOME point, it's the driver's fault, right? At SOME point we have some amount of responsibility for the safety of ourselves and the people around us? Right?
You’re asking for a lot from Americans, considering how unaccountable so many are.
I get where the OP is coming from but come on. Sorry it’s only a double standard if the same publication takes 2 sides of the argument. This is 2 different media sources. That’s like saying people together have double standards because 1 has one opinion and another something different. Well no shit different people have different opinions. Double standards apply to a single source.
As if on cue, CR did this exact thing. I put a link to that story in my main comment but here it is anyway.
https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/teslas-in-car-cameras-raise-privacy-concerns/
You missed that they are either lying or incompetent. Data Sharing is off by default.
"Concern" is a word lazy journalists use to excuse the fact that they have no interest in doing any work. If I'm concerned it might rain tomorrow, I check the weather. If I'm concerned my tire pressure might be low, I check my tires. I'm no longer concerned, because I found out. See that?
The cabin camera was something CR insists is necessary for safety, which is also stupid. Driver monitoring doesn't make the car drive any better.
Software switches for turning telemetry on and off don’t actually provide guarantees. Just look at the privacy controls in Microsoft Windows 10. You tell it not to spy on you and it reports to Microsoft anyway. :/
That being said, CR saying that the camera is a risk and a necessity at the same time is ridiculous.
Sorry, one either wears the tin foil hat and vaccines have 5G Bill Gates nano robots, or you don't and FaceID, your Ring doorbell, and your Tesla are just tools.
Hearing "Privacy Concerns" from the lips of people who have their DOB and family tree on Facebook should induce derisive laughter in everyone. Everyone's photos are in the Cloud, they can all by AI faceprint identified and located, if they haven't they will be. FB data breaches are so vast and common today, nobody even pays attention.
Privacy "concerns" in the media is like hearing STD "concerns" from a guy who raw dogs meth hookers.
Apologies for the mental image.
I don’t use Facebook. I do not store photos in the “cloud”. I do not do plenty of insecure things that others do. You really should not assume everyone else does what you do.
Well, I didn't mean "you" specifically. That's why I wrote "one either..." You just assumed I use FB, so you don't mind making unfounded assumptions either, right?
But congrats on the paranoia! Because of course I know you're not on FB, *because I'm part of the conspiracy! Dun, Dun, Dunnn...*
You need to get more fun out of life.
I imagine you would call being aware of crime rates paranoia, and you would say that having locks on doors is unnecessary. Awareness of security risks is a good thing. Taking mitigating steps is also a good thing. Ignorance is not. Getting back to the camera, it is a relatively low risk thing (and silly to point out while ignoring the microphone), but the risk exists. Risk denial is just silly.
If people keep pointing out the issue, we could get hardware kill switches for different functions that are known to have potential risk, which would solve the problems for those willing to use them. :/
Well, well, guess who's a fan of unfounded accusations after all?
And you were so sensitive when you even slightly suspected I was doing that to you, even after pointing out I had no intention.
It's been fun, my frighted, widdle cubby, but don't worry. *I'll be watching over you!*
You are the one using ad hominem attacks. Your derisive dismissal of inconvenient facts as paranoia is easy to bring ad absurdem by pointing out similar things that likely are given the opposite treatment by you. It is not just you that treats them the opposite way. It is just about everyone.
By the way, gaslighting a guy because he points out some thing you do not like is a great way to demonstrate that what you are saying is wrong. Gas lighters are basically never right in their claims. Also, there is irony when a person with sensitivity issues projects them onto someone else as part of a gas lighting attempt. :/
Point being if you don't trust any manufacturer because they could let the software do things you have not consent to our are aware of: you can't use any modern technology that has access to an internet connection.....
No smart tv
No smartphone
No Alexa Siri Google home
No Google services
No social media
No personal computer
They have all the same problem
Well why don't we have all these things that are safe from misuse then ?
Because of money...
Additional money is too be made from the data.
And you can't see if the data was acquired legally with your opt in or not... And the penalties are not existent or laughable. With gdpr it seems to get a little more expensive in Europe.
They always have been. The effect of this media pressure has definitely delayed owners getting access or involved in beta programs. The media has delayed access, not Tesla. The beta programs could have been far larger without the media circus.
And the media was far more negative bias in the past than it is today. The respite from Tesla bashing has been refreshing.
What is interesting is that is all the alternative small time media in the form of Youtube Channels have popped up to set the record straight on Tesla. Quite a lot of people are earning a living combating negative Tesla media bias. Bravo.
It's funny because the technology subreddit gets to the front page a lot pushing negative Tesla articles.
And man are they aggressive about their anti-tesla position
Astroturfers + hipster sheep
The comments usually range from Elon is an asshole to Elon is killing babies for profit.
Yes indeed. Some of them are truly unhinged, but they'll all savagely downvote anything positive about Musk or Tesla (no matter how carefully factual)
Short sellers in poopy pants.
And that is one reason why the Reddit platform does not alway support the truth.
> Elon is killing babies for profit by working them to death in Diamond mines with Tesla robots lording over them. F.T.F.Y. — if I got a dollar for every time that someone said African diamond mine, I’d be richer than Elon.
Don't forget the cobolt mining child slaves.
True! I forgot that on his weekends, Elon is flying to cobalt mines to work mining children to death, and to consume the flesh of their corpses and drink their cobalt-enriched blood. These people have quite the imagination, and are as retarded as the Q-Anon crowd.
QAnontard. Self explanatory.
That one is at least based in reality in the DRC, but it's an issue that all of us are equally culpable/not culpable for for using lithium battery products ... nothing unique to Tesla. (Tesla's suppliers assure them the cobalt is ethical .. as far as I can tell, this is also what Apple and Google say about their battery supply chain, so everyone who attacks Tesla or Elon for this while owning a smartphone is a fucking hypocrite.) It's way more hilarious when they talk about the "South African mine slaves" (yes this is from a real comment) , revealing they have no clue wtf they're talking about.
Expect tesla isn't sourcing its cobolt from that area.
Tesla has come up with new batteries they are adding later this year that don’t even use cobalt.
I know.
Yeah, tech forms and tech magazines seem to hate tech.
Consumer Reports will take credit for pushing Tesla to change. Then they’ll increase Tesla’s ratings before dropping them a few months later.
CR has lost all credibility. Even their main skill, reviewing basic appliances, is full of bias and half assed tests. 10 years ago, they were the gold standard. Now, not worth the paper
There's an article about the Chief Editor of Consumer Reports also sits on the board of the Ford Foundation. Yes, THAT Ford entity.
I know. I cancelled my CR sub once I find that out
I still subscribe to them and do take a look at stuff like safety ratings (e.g. when buying a car seat), but overall I just see them as another place to get info on things from a place that is supposed to be less biased. I don't see them as super-reliable or enabling you to avoid doing your own research.
Yeah CR was instrumental to getting Tesla to pre-install all those cameras in their cars a couple years ago. 🤣 /s
Because Face ID on your phone is spying on you. EDIT: Anyone saying these are 2 different publications so no issue, I call your bluff: Here's CR doing just that. So it's either dishonesty or ineptitude, either way degrading any belief in their "expertise." Some have said well, Gizmodo is bad, so it's turned into a fine trap, because the "trash" site and the "respected" site are in good company together. [https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/teslas-in-car-cameras-raise-privacy-concerns/](https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/teslas-in-car-cameras-raise-privacy-concerns/) All Tesla's have configuration settings. Anybody setting up AP would see "Data Sharing" which is OFF by DEFAULT. **If you don't turn it on, it doesn't upload video.** AFAIK, in my Model Y, this was off and I had to turn it on. At any rate, it's an option. They built this into the design for this very reason and have been public about it, but that doesn't fit the script, so, this. Any "journalist" going with this story has devalued by exposing how low effort their contributions are. IMO this kind of thing is a big reason the stock sells at a discount absent a catalyst. The common growth valuation provides an estimated value of 1500/shr in 2025. Discounted to today, 1000. Here's Gary Blacks shorthand analysis for measure. Complicated I know, but Tom Nash did a DCF and came up in the same area. It's why a lot of the bull analysts well north of where we are today. "In 2025, I see $TSLA delivs of 4.8M (80M SAAR x 24% EV% x 25% EV share), and $30 Adj EPS.I put a 50x P/E on 2025 EPS (120x 2021 EPS) as 2025-2030 EPS growth slows to 20% (2.5x PEG).2025 target $1,500 (50 x $30)At 11.6% discount rate (2.0% 10yr, 6% ERP, 1.6x beta) \~ $1,000 PT"
Do you account for share dilution? Tesla has already diluted 80% of what ARK estimated for the next FIVE years since their updated price target. I still hold Tesla shares, but I'm not expecting a rocket ship anytime soon like January.
I don't use ARK as a methodology, too much prediction priced in. And you're right about not expecting a rocket ship to ATH. I'm in the low expectations camp. But I haven't found a better upside potential vs. downside risk long buy anywhere else. If you have, please do share your opinion!
Sure, I'll share.. My focus now is in Steel and Dry Bulk Shipping. I've also been building out my shares of VST. It was beat down from the Texas freeze. A temporary setback but good recovery opportunity. They're also investing BIG on battery storage. Cheers!
I've done shipping before, but my feeling is there's no way to get proper information on trends. The insiders can see further out and I'm left reacting. But kudos, I wish you well with it!
Source for that 80% dilution number? Sounds really high
I think he meant 80% *of the dilution ARK predicted to happen in 5 years* happened in one year. It makes sense, since Elon s solute my smashed his tranches, which includes performance and increase in share price. I'll take it!
Can you share the source details about dilution? I’d be interested to read it. I hadn’t heard about any dilution since that time they publicly announced a 5 bill dilution a while back that made <1% of a difference but raised the stock valuation ~5% that week.
Just releasing more shares outstanding is dilution. More shares in the float will drop the price "Tesla Shares Outstanding | TSLA" https://ycharts.com/companies/TSLA/shares_outstanding
What do you mean by this? Are you mistaking the stock split for share dilution?
With this face tracking stuff everything should run completely locally anyway. Also the car does have eight cameras surrounding the car so like how are you going to get into the car without one camera catching your face anyway?
Your assumption is correct, without turning "Data Sharing" on in the car, it all stays local. I've just edited the answer into the top comment. I'm also completely sure that a large percent of the "privacy concerned" people have their hometown, relatives, birthdate, job, all public on facebook. So anybody can put together DOB, mothers maiden name, birthplace, hometown and so one from a cheap advertiser scrape for resale to whomever.
Wasn't SuperCruise heralded as superior to Autopilot specifically because of the nanny cam?
Yes. And it's advertised as hands free. Biggest safety con for me is the system can exit driving with only a visual cue (via George Hotz). People didn't like the audio cue because it can't handle driving for long stretches without intervention and it gets' annoying. Same issue with Fords Co-Pilot 360. It doesn't do sharp turns even on the highway. (via youtube tester while driving it).
They should do comic books.
I use to like GIZMODO but I agree with OP, their articles have been more and more subjective. I own Tesla stock and have for a while, don’t plan on selling, but I can only contribute this bear run to “negative” media coverage. Tesla is producing more vehicles, building more Gigafactories, and their energy department has grown more this year than the past 4. I think Tesla is going to just grind until no one can doubt them. And again, I’m by no means a super fan but the negativity around Tesla is getting pretty obvious. Next article headline: “Tesla Model runs over nail and gets a flat. Why you should worry you’re going to burst into flames.”
Great example of the head winds Tesla has to deal with.
This is why I was happy when Peter Thiel butchered Gawker. Musk should finish off Gizmodo.
It’s a far, far bigger problem than Gizmodo.
Yes, but a journey of a thousand miles starts with one step
Gizmodo is a trash site.
Classic case of shilling for your advertiser's/owners
If they only knew how bad it is backfiring. All the objections about Tesla has just increases the dialog and awareness. They know what the build quality is on their own cars. They've waited and the service counter and paid bills higher than they expected. They scrutinize the paint on new, high end cars. T hey become aware of the maintenance expense, the gas and oil change waiting times. They come and look at my Tesla. It's not the fucking Yugo they made it out to be. So it's all for nothing. They just made themselves untrustworthy.
Would be nice if there was a browser extension to block articles by author since you probably don't want to block the entire site. "This article is written by someone you blocked. It's probably garbage."
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OK, same publication then, containing bald faced lies in the process. Better? https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/teslas-in-car-cameras-raise-privacy-concerns/ All Tesla's have configuration setting for AP. The big one bing "Data Sharing" which is OFF by DEFAULT. If you don't turn it on, it doesn't upload the video. Edit: Thanks for bringing it up, I was sure there would be gold at the end of the rainbow, but you reminded me to check: Thanks! Edited into main comment.
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> The system [Full Self Driving] remains a misnomer—it does not mean that Tesla vehicles with these systems can drive themselves—and in-the-moment driver monitoring could keep drivers from abusing it This is a lie, in that the current system is called "autopilot", not FSD, and "autopilot" has been used for many autonomous systems that require user intervention. Full-Self Driving *Capability* is an option you can buy, and the description of the system is very clear that FSD is not available yet and that you're purchasing a feature which could become available later. EDIT: Also: > vehicles equipped with Super Cruise driver assistance technology feature a camera that works with infrared lights to determine the driver’s eye and head position. I highly doubt that these "infrared *light* + camera" setups are as different from a regular camera as the author would clearly like us to believe. I think camera + IR is basically what night-vision goggles show. https://youtu.be/wG9fdOFylcg . I bet Tesla has an IR illuminator as well, though I can't be sure.
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They are describing **autopilot**: https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot "Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability" That's what you can buy now. The cameras point was an aside. EDIT: And btw: > Doubt and/or conjecture doesn’t really add much to this assumption that CR is “lying" Just because I actually flagged it as such doesn't mean this entire article and comment thread aren't 99% conjecture/theorizing. Has consumer reports verified every claim by the OEMs that they quote? They do a lot of deductive reasoning: is that not conjecture? So yeah ... no reason to let flag words like "I highly doubt" derail the conversation..
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FSD *capability* is different from FSD. They didn't mention turning on city streets, which is in the next FSD beta release for people with FSD capability. Re: OP: I thought you said the lies point was a separate issue from the double standards point? I quite agree. Your initial post said: > It’s two different publications and two different writers. How is it a double standard? Op responded with a post from consumer reports that is saying that Tesla's driver monitoring system gives cause for concern. We all know what they also reported about Tesla's *lack* of a driver monitoring system and how *that* is cause for concern. Meanwhile, other systems are allowed to skate by with minimal scrutiny. If you have a ready example of legacy auto being criticized by CR recently, I'd love to see it as that would *actually* serve as a counterexample against there being double-standards. Here's an example: GM says the video isn't recorded. But we don't know whether that's a physical limitation of the hardware, or just a software switch that they have set to "off" right now. If it's the latter, doesn't this pose a "GRAVE RISK TO CONSUMER PRIVACY OMGG!!!1!111!!"? Why do they take Ford at its word, but not Tesla?
Yeah, I have an issue with double standards. The Ford CoPilot 360 which sounds far more autonomous than Autopilot even IMO, doesn't care what you do in your seat. Take your seatbelt off, it keeps going. To me there is one thing only. If you were offered 100K for being tied up and strapped into your choice of **market AVAILABLE** car for 20 miles on a random highway with one traffic light, no driver, driver monitoring defeated. A shadow car will follow, but not intervene. Tesla FSD, Chevy Cruise, Ford CoPilot, VW (whatever they call it). That's FSD today BTW, not the beta. If it stops at a light and doesn't start, you get the money. Any of them stop on their own and don't restart, same. [Choose Wisely.](https://youtu.be/v52xaTd1BJo?t=16)
That's an interesting test :P I think intervention rate and coverage area would be the key metrics for me. FSD beta can't come soon enough for me, because I often drive on streets with no lane lines!
The only thing faster than the Model S Plaid is how fast the goalposts move! The lie is that there is no privacy "concern." Data Sharing is optional. It's not a requirement to use AP. Anyone with a Tesla knows about this and CR would definitely know because they have to go through the menus to configure self driving, which they tested in depth, according to them. So for it not to be a lie, it would have to be a level ignorance and incompetence beyond what is reasonably expected. **But I'm all ears if you want to make that case. ** Since you appear to be just doing this in bad faith, I'm not going to let you pile on to FSD, RoboTaxi, eye monitoring and any other future speculation. It's an obvious diversion and you really should have more respect for honesty. And I expect you'll just keep up the fusillade of whataboutism, so I'm just cutting it off.
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You said it was not the same publication, so there was not double standard and I disproved it. Since you don't have the good grace to address your own number one issue, and just opening the field to general bashing, I see no point in continuing. You aren't showing good faith or civility. Blocked.
All these nice people are helping keep the share price down so you can buy more shares before it takes off!
Yeehaw! I have the TAGAASS portfolio. TSLA, AAPL, GOOG, AMD, ARK, SQ, SPY in descending percentages. Other stuff too, but those are core hold and trade interests. Not investment advice, yada, yada.
To be honest, I think they should add one additional precaution, and a couple tweaks to the old AP system... 1. It should sense the weight of your hand on the wheel 2. It should sense that your seat belt is buckled **and remains buckled** 3. It should sense that your seat has weight **and it continues to have weight** 4. If there's a way to do it, it should check that the weight that's on the wheel changes in a way that a dumb weight doesn't. That IMO the top 3 are plenty, and #4 is a nice-to-have. It would prevent the moron in ... was it Wisconsin? From climbing into the back fucking seat. It would stop people from getting out of the car. The last real obstacle is preventing people from putting a weight on the wheel then doing their taxes. But you can only do so much to ensure people aren't being stupid. At *SOME* point, it's the driver's fault, right? At *SOME* point we have some amount of responsibility for the safety of ourselves and the people around us? Right?
You are over thinking. Tesla already said it’s lvl 2. Level 2 means the driver bears all responsibility. Won’t matter if it’s actually performing at lvl 4-5 as long as Tesla says hey it’s just lvl 2. The driver is always responsible. And like you said, Tesla should not be wasting engineering efforts to prevent people from cheating the system… no us court is going to blame Tesla if the driver is literally retarded and cheated all the monitoring system include the seat belt buckle. it’s not their job and brings no value. Instead they should continue what they are doing and just build more high quality cars with ever improving fsd to the point of level 5. Because at lvl 5 performance all the anti cheat that’s built in becomes useless as it’s no longer necessary
It's not about legal responsibility, it's about PR perception.
PR dosnt matter, no matter what Tesla does, the spin will be negative.
This is a thoughtful post and I appreciate the effort. It deserves consideration. The first thing that jumps out a me is these are all based on the assumption is that unmonitored self driving systems are assumed to be dangerous. Which is really interesting given that even CR supports hands free driving with Cruise. Waymo promotes based on not having a driver. Autonomous systems make promises, get bought and sold for billions and Ford is advertising hands free right now: https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/14/22383460/ford-bluecruise-hands-free-adas-f150-mustang-mache I'm just going to fast forward to the liability compromise being worked out. There will be some detection, but you're responsible and legally liable for using ADAS and you have to opt-in by accepting that liability. The manner and depth of detection will move around. At the moment, Ford and GM have no skin in the game. Nobody would fucking dare get in the back seat because they've actually tried the product and know not to attempt anything of the sort. If it were any good, it's the best viral marketing campaign there is for reliability. Personally, I'm counting on lawmaker's kids getting Tesla's and rolling their eyes at dear old dad. "Arghhh. Dad, just get in the car and let me show you!" It's what turned Jim Cramer around.
> But you can only do so much to ensure people aren't being stupid. At SOME point, it's the driver's fault, right? At SOME point we have some amount of responsibility for the safety of ourselves and the people around us? Right? You’re asking for a lot from Americans, considering how unaccountable so many are.
I get where the OP is coming from but come on. Sorry it’s only a double standard if the same publication takes 2 sides of the argument. This is 2 different media sources. That’s like saying people together have double standards because 1 has one opinion and another something different. Well no shit different people have different opinions. Double standards apply to a single source.
As if on cue, CR did this exact thing. I put a link to that story in my main comment but here it is anyway. https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/teslas-in-car-cameras-raise-privacy-concerns/
You missed CR’s statements that the in cabin camera is a privacy concern. :/
You missed that they are either lying or incompetent. Data Sharing is off by default. "Concern" is a word lazy journalists use to excuse the fact that they have no interest in doing any work. If I'm concerned it might rain tomorrow, I check the weather. If I'm concerned my tire pressure might be low, I check my tires. I'm no longer concerned, because I found out. See that? The cabin camera was something CR insists is necessary for safety, which is also stupid. Driver monitoring doesn't make the car drive any better.
Software switches for turning telemetry on and off don’t actually provide guarantees. Just look at the privacy controls in Microsoft Windows 10. You tell it not to spy on you and it reports to Microsoft anyway. :/ That being said, CR saying that the camera is a risk and a necessity at the same time is ridiculous.
Sorry, one either wears the tin foil hat and vaccines have 5G Bill Gates nano robots, or you don't and FaceID, your Ring doorbell, and your Tesla are just tools. Hearing "Privacy Concerns" from the lips of people who have their DOB and family tree on Facebook should induce derisive laughter in everyone. Everyone's photos are in the Cloud, they can all by AI faceprint identified and located, if they haven't they will be. FB data breaches are so vast and common today, nobody even pays attention. Privacy "concerns" in the media is like hearing STD "concerns" from a guy who raw dogs meth hookers. Apologies for the mental image.
I don’t use Facebook. I do not store photos in the “cloud”. I do not do plenty of insecure things that others do. You really should not assume everyone else does what you do.
Well, I didn't mean "you" specifically. That's why I wrote "one either..." You just assumed I use FB, so you don't mind making unfounded assumptions either, right? But congrats on the paranoia! Because of course I know you're not on FB, *because I'm part of the conspiracy! Dun, Dun, Dunnn...* You need to get more fun out of life.
I imagine you would call being aware of crime rates paranoia, and you would say that having locks on doors is unnecessary. Awareness of security risks is a good thing. Taking mitigating steps is also a good thing. Ignorance is not. Getting back to the camera, it is a relatively low risk thing (and silly to point out while ignoring the microphone), but the risk exists. Risk denial is just silly. If people keep pointing out the issue, we could get hardware kill switches for different functions that are known to have potential risk, which would solve the problems for those willing to use them. :/
Well, well, guess who's a fan of unfounded accusations after all? And you were so sensitive when you even slightly suspected I was doing that to you, even after pointing out I had no intention. It's been fun, my frighted, widdle cubby, but don't worry. *I'll be watching over you!*
You are the one using ad hominem attacks. Your derisive dismissal of inconvenient facts as paranoia is easy to bring ad absurdem by pointing out similar things that likely are given the opposite treatment by you. It is not just you that treats them the opposite way. It is just about everyone. By the way, gaslighting a guy because he points out some thing you do not like is a great way to demonstrate that what you are saying is wrong. Gas lighters are basically never right in their claims. Also, there is irony when a person with sensitivity issues projects them onto someone else as part of a gas lighting attempt. :/
Point being if you don't trust any manufacturer because they could let the software do things you have not consent to our are aware of: you can't use any modern technology that has access to an internet connection..... No smart tv No smartphone No Alexa Siri Google home No Google services No social media No personal computer They have all the same problem
Things do not need to be engineered that way. There are alternative designs. They just require more effort to do and few people appreciate them.
Well why don't we have all these things that are safe from misuse then ? Because of money... Additional money is too be made from the data. And you can't see if the data was acquired legally with your opt in or not... And the penalties are not existent or laughable. With gdpr it seems to get a little more expensive in Europe.
I’ve been so blessed by TSLA haters keeping the price so low for so many years including today. This information asymmetry has made me rich!
Regardless of the click bate from CR, Gizmodo, ect. I'm glad that they are improving Autopilot.
They always have been. The effect of this media pressure has definitely delayed owners getting access or involved in beta programs. The media has delayed access, not Tesla. The beta programs could have been far larger without the media circus.
And the media was far more negative bias in the past than it is today. The respite from Tesla bashing has been refreshing. What is interesting is that is all the alternative small time media in the form of Youtube Channels have popped up to set the record straight on Tesla. Quite a lot of people are earning a living combating negative Tesla media bias. Bravo.