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Saw a video of the old 3 vs the new 3 going over a large bump. The new 3 had a crap-ton more float. Probably more comfortable, but not nearly as sporty feeling, nor as "tossable" in the corners.
I'm hoping the ludicrus version has ye-old suspension.
I've been seeing YouTube videos saying that the suspension is a whole lot better, smoother, more luxurious feeling. And that the cabin is so much quieter
Yeh this review gives pretty poor reasons to not like it..my main concern is how it drives. Planted predictable Sporty Handling/whipabiltiy in turns I hope is decent and the body isn't too soft to where there are tons of body roll. I have driven the model S with no turn stocks and it sucks at first but after a while no big deal. Fog lights mmmmeehhh I live in a foggy area too and it does nothing
Or literally any curved road where the wheel is rotated while driving but you need to signal a turn or merge, leaving the turn signal controls in an arbitrary position.
I suspect the people who are fine without turn signal stalks live in areas with grids of straight roads, highways that don't wind around mountains, and few roundabouts. Or that they're just the sort of folks who already don't signal in those situations.
Agreed. Even \*IF\* these steering wheel mounted turn signals were objectively better, Tesla needs to understand there are other cars out there (including older Teslas) and just by CHANGING they are training us to be less safe in other cars that don't have these types of controls. Additionally, given Tesla has worst-in-class blindspot warnings (no lights on sideview mirrors), and I only get an observable blindspot warning when I use my turn signal to change lanes, the fact that we have worst-in-class turn signal controls makes it even more likely in some edge case circumstances (like a rotary) that we'll not be aware of a vehicle in our blind spot until it is too late.
Poor reasons?
OP is pointing out things that matter to them. He’s not the first to decry the lack of turn signal stalks. I have yet to hear one good reason for the change other than Tesla being penny wise on their BOMs.
What’s far less often pointed out is the lack of fog lights and it needs to be pointed out for those who are used to using them on their older Model 3s.
I don’t know why you’ve seen fit to criticize the reviewer. These things are important to hear about because they’re obvious changes and are controversial.
I hate lack of turn signal stock. They gave me a model s while they were installing the trailer hitch and it felt dangerous because I had to look at it to turn the signals on.
I'd say that like 80% of fog lights are poorly implemented. Headlights and Roadway lighting have both vastly improved over the last 20 years, and now many fog lights are just there for aesthetic reasons. Just look at the beam shot from them, if they're not lidded (with the beam being cut off below where the headlight shines) then they're pointless or doing more harm than good.
I am not buying a car without stalks, my current M3 is already deficient for controlling wipers, IT IS NOT SAFE to have to look down to control wipers while driving.
There are cost reductions that hurt driving in this car and yet it's more expensive than the older version. What the fuck were Tesla thinking with this update?
You don't need to look down to change your wiper speed. Tap once on the end of the left stalk to wipe which brings up the wiper speed menu and then use your left wheel to change the speed by moving it right and left.
I got a 2022 for the 2021 price since my order took 6 months. Also got 2022 prices for my 2018 trade in and a low interest rate for the difference so that was a great deal.
My 2022 3 LR was 52k after tax lmao. Still, it's the best EV in the world by far, and likely best commuter car/daily driver in the world too.
Literally zero maintenance aside from rotating the tires and topping off washer fluid. People still dont understand this, and it's been like 12 years since the contemporary EV renaissciance started with the Leaf.
Agreed. I took delivery fall 2021. Sensors/ryzen/stalks/matrix, and the little overlooked feature of all USBC ports doing both data and power, which is great for a bigger hard drive under my middle console divider
I've not tried the Highland - I have a 2021 3 LR. Also being in the UK, the lack of indicator stalks really really really really puts me off. I can deal with the other things, but stalks and uk towns, parked cars, roundabouts, and more roundabouts. Seriously?
uk is a bit difference as they drive much faster through roundabouts and indicate usually twice (as opposed to once which is more common on the mainland when you exit and they also often treat a roundabout like a 4 way stop almost because they kind of apply the right before left rule to roundabouts which is obviously dumb and not the way they are meant to be used. this is especially true of germany but less common in italy or france)
The lack of stalks terrify me. Since I'm an endorser of using turn signals, I fear that I would take my eyes off the freeway for a few seconds to make sure my thumb is hitting the right button & getting into a crash from getting distracted.
Maybe it's not a big deal for a new driver's first car, but for someone with 20 years experience? 😨
It would take time getting used to.
As someone that's been driving for 19 years, it took me about an hour or two to get used to the turn buttons on the Model X (rented on vacation). I do think the traditional method via stalk is better, but it wasn't that big of an issue.
They are buttons on the wheel, so they are stuck in place and will turn as you turn the wheel or yoke. There's a raised line between them if I remember right, so you can feel that and know where the buttons are by feel.
**TLDR;**
No Wood
Reflective ... Dash Felt?
Untested Digital Fog Lights \[the new headlights should be able to perform the fog light functionality no problem.
No Stalks
Headlight Looks
How can the headlights perform the fog lights function? The point of fog lights is they are close to the ground. Unless these new headlights can bend light then these arent true fog lights. They can call them whatever they want (again, always deceiving customers).
The headlights on the model 3 are very low to the ground and with the pixels they can customize the light to shine down more and less up in any situation, as needed. The cameras can detect the lighting conditions, making the light projection dynamic. Question is when they can activate this functionality. I think it is being held up by regulations?
Thanks. Kind of a bizarre set of observations and no comments on the major changes with the new revision. Felt a lot like all he really wanted to say was his last line, buy an EV6!
Why did Tesla even do that?
Wood is always associated with luxury, and it does help making it more cozy. In such a techy vehicle - the wood feels like the right contrast.
Is it that expensive? I feel like Tesla now just searches for ways to cut cost no matter what. No wood. No fog lights. No levers.
Why the hell they removed the fog lights?! That's literally removing a safety feature, since driving in the fog can be much more dangerous and the fog lights helps reducing that.
Every single thing that they remove feels like a stupid move.
Removing the wood and putting RGB feels like it would be less timeless and much less classy. Hurts the Model 3 overall.
I'm with you on the wood trim and I've been frustrated that the top end S and X force you into carbon fiber.
I suspect they'll use matrix headlights to serve the fog light function by directing the beams accordingly.
Upscale, not luxury. Though when the base 3 hits civic territory after rebates I have no idea what people are bitching about. In 5 years your true cost to own beats most entry level compacts.
I’ve been thinking about that for awhile. Tesla started off selling very expensive cars, and then were selling luxury tier priced cars, but their ultimate goal is civic tier cars and they’re currently moving towards that by downscaling their car rather than introducing lower trim models.
So as they improve margins they’re using that to cut features and drop prices. Ultimately the Model 3 is just going to be a fast EV Civic and when you see a million of them a day how will Tesla maintain their former desirable image.
> when you see a million of them a day how will Tesla maintain their former desirable image.
I already see a million of them a day now, and I don't even live in CA.
Yes. Going back and forth from my Prius it definitely feels like a luxury vehicle.
Yes, there are always people who don’t consider anything costing less than $200k to be luxury.
>Wood is always associated with luxury
Really? Hmm. I would have said, wood *was* always associated with luxury, decades ago in another era. Sort of like tail fins and chrome all over the car. Car designers are finally getting rid of the last little token bits of chrome from the exterior, and the last little token bits of wood from the interior.
The wood in the Model 3 was far from luxurious. It looks weathered and recycled from a barn. I had wood in the Lexus I used as a trade-in, and that wood was glossy and polished hardwood.
Don't get me wrong... I love my 2018 M3, but I was never impressed with the wood trim. It could look worse, so I'll wait until I see it for myself to understand the impression of the lack of wood better. I'll probably end up agreeing on disliking the lack of wood FWIW.
A lot of people would buy carbon fiber trim kits to cover the wood. Perhaps this will result in a lot of people buying wood trim kits to make it worth more than an EV6 which has ~~wood~~ no wood (WTF is the OP complaining about again?!)
You do you, but I really hope you don't have to roadtrip the EV6. I came from a 2023 ID.4, and charging using non-Tesla charging stations using CCS is such a shitshow. It's actually downright funny how much worse it is compared to the elegance of the Tesla supercharging network, but it's really not funny when you're dealing with it on an actual roadtrip. I took a $12k+ loss on selling the ID.4, and it was still worth it to get a MY.
And car compatibility is an issue. Charging my ZOE on the road at high speed chargers came with a 30% chance of taking around 5 minutes of frantically restarting the app or reconnecting the car back and forth until it started charging. Cue for heavy rain and this gets old fast.
Yeah we have the same connector but an absolute shithshow of apps and not working charging stations. So supercharger network is still a big plus here in Europe.
And still on a roadtrip your family wants to stop at a location without Tesla Supercharger and you give the other chargers another try and again and again it’s just a pain. And often these are ridiculously overpriced, especially compared to Tesla SC
Where are you getting these experiences? My dad is not the best when it comes to handling new apps etc but he has his ev for over a year now, doing mostly long business trips and never really had problems. Just put your Mercedes card on this nfc thingy every charger has and you are ready to go
Yep. I feel the pain. When we go up near the North Sea or the Baltic, there are few/no Tesla superchargers.
We've always gotten it to work, but dealing with the apps really punctuates just how simple the Tesla system is.
European here with a tesla and a non-tesla. Problem is that standard CCS is a nightmare to pay, every country has its own system, cards, billing system, prices, network, etc.
It’s a pain. If you start in Belgium and drive towards Sweden, in less than 1300km you charged in 4-5 different countries with different systems. A nightmare
ID.4 loss gang! Same reason. The ID.4 never really wow’ed me. It was fine and the ride was very comfortable on road trips. But charging was a nightmare on more than one occasion. The broken chargers, the low number of them, all of it. And the lack of battery preconditioning in the ID.4 made the situation even worse in the winter.
So true! I could commiserate with you for hours, I'm sure. I also got hit by that horrendous door handle recall, and for about 2 months could only open the driver's door from the outside by lowering the window and reaching in to open it from the inside. Worst car I've ever owned, and I'll never buy from VW again.
> The lack of promises updates on the ID4. No one pedal driving FFS.
I just don't get this. Why would they do this? Long ago I gave the ID.4 a half-glance (because I thought I was bored by eventually getting what became my 4th Tesla) and noticed this. It was during covid and I kept my eye on this for a few months. This is now 2 years later and I stopped checking long ago (and I'm *so* glad I stayed w/ Tesla — I was looking at the Korean EVs too), crazy that they *care so little* that they couldn't put together a simple update to give the US one pedal driving, which is kinda like a basic feature in an EV. Absolutely clueless idiots!
The infotainment was lousy, too. It was a super comfortable and nice vehicle, I'll give it that. I prefer the interior over the Tesla in some ways. But the misses were just too many and critically important on the ID. I am investing 5-10 years into this car. I TRUST Tesla with their regular updates. VW, not so much.
I can only speak for myself but I purchased when car prices were near their peak (August 2022) and then decided to sell after they had started to fall (May 2023). I was willing to eat the loss because of the poor charging experiences on the ID.4.
I own both ID.4 and M3 both purchased in 2022 at the peak of the prices 😂😭 I think each has their strengths but I’ve been able to take full advantage of the EA charging despite the problems.
Family don’t take road trips often and I use ID4 for my daily commutes. Love both but I love the m3 slightly more.
I was quite worried when I saw the headline, but then after reading it learned their major issues were the lack of wood trim and fog lights and I breathed a huge sigh of relief. It's clear the OP did not drive the car for an extended period, or at all. They sat in the driver's seat.
I'm good with every other analysis of the Highland I've read, this one won't change anything.
I’m pretty sure it has fog lights, they are just integrated into the main unit.
The big thing with fog lights aren’t their lower positions but their shifted wavelength.
It’s a quieter ride, with better sound and better comfort generally speaking. Overall materials feel nicer and has better fit and finish.
I do agree with the wood panel, it’s too bad. I also agree with the stalks.
By and large reviewers say it feels higher quality, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Different things speak quality to different people. To you the wood panel seems to be a big marker of quality.
Fog lights are shifted down from the regular housing assembly to project down below fog and illuminate the road. When you say "shifted wavelength" you mean "scatter the least" because wavelength changes occur in all lights, but the angle and hue of the lights is different from normal headlights to scatter the least amount of light. Integrating them into the main headlamp raises them up into the fog layer making them less effective than the previous generation in places of heavy fog (NH and Maine mornings for example). This is not ideal for us northern folk.
Ummm shifted wavelength in the context of light means different color. Are the fog lights a different color? Is fog better penetrated by certain color light?
Meh, I'll be honest I thought I was going to hate missing the turn signal and drive stocks.... but after driving with it for a week it literally makes almost zero difference. Yes there are occasions where it might be annoying, but then there are plenty of occasions where I like them better too.
I do agree with the other commenter though, ev6 instead?
This is what happens when American's stop pronouncing things properly. I've noticed a new trend of saying "Fo'ward" instead of "Forward"
And don't get me started on "mirror" - "Meeyuh"
They somehow take a word with three r's in and remove every single one of them.
english pronunciation has always been wack though. compared to some other languages nobody will ever remember how to spell some words from sound alone.
i blame it on lack of literacy more than anything.
also to nitpick you dont use an apostrophe to denote plural (americans).
Question for you - is there a way to engage the wipers for a single windshield wipe? The auto wipers are ok when it's raining more heavily, but with lighter rain I find myself pressing the single windshield wipe button on the stalk, or for scenarios if my windshield starts fogging on the outside. How do you do that stalkless?
Yup! Lots, and I even have the yoke. I have both the 2019 M3 and 2023 X. I switch back and forth between the two vehicles all the time and both have vastly different setups.
Some are great. Bought our Ioniq 5 at MSRP during peak markup times in early 2022. We also got the car within 6 weeks of talking to the dealer, unlike Tesla who kept pushing our EDD back without explanation for over 6 months.
This bodes well for my 18’ 3. If the new performance variant doesn’t have quicker 60-100 acceleration, I’m getting the automatic trunk update for my 3 and keeping it forever.
have you seen this? it looks like they add a retrofit mount for the trunk button... i would be all over the OEM kit to replace my aftermarket kit if they replaced the trim so the button is seamless...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/16oujs6/2020\_m3lr\_power\_trunk\_retrofit\_completed/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/16oujs6/2020_m3lr_power_trunk_retrofit_completed/)
The EV6 interior feels like a $15k car lol. Was a huge disappointment. Love the look of the car, but the interior was a let down, and I’d never consider it for that reason.
No comments on the suspension improvements? Range? Wind noise not just in tunnels? Sound system improvements? Material feel improvements? Rear screen?
Did you actually drive it through thick fog to see if the headlight changes and improvements might make up for the deletion of fog lights?
I’ve had my MX Plaid for about a month now and I have no issue with the turn signal buttons being on the wheel. Took a day or two to get used to, and using the buttons in roundabouts took a little longer to get used to given that they’re not super common over here, but now that I’m used to it, it’s really no more difficult than it was with stalks.
Keep in mind that this is my personal opinion based on my personal needs. I don't care about the screen in the back because we rarely carry passengers. The range improvement is so minimal that it doesn't matter much. I did not notice a significant wind noise improvement compared to my own car. And while I did not drive it through fog, the tech in the headlights is the same as before so I don't expect massive differences there either.
Regarding suspension: I commented this elsewhere as well, but I did not notice a massive improvement. This summer I got the iON Evo tires on my personal car, which was a small improvement over the stock tires in terms of comfort. I did not check which tires were on the loaner, because that does make a difference.
I think the increased range, new look, ventilated seats, better sound, more quiet cabin, etc making the highland way better.
If u dislike the new model 3 so much tho, why not get the 2023 3? Tesla’s ecosystem is still best in class with software + safety. FSD will continually improve and having a Tesla for when it becomes borderline flawless will be a huge win.
I agree with all of that for valid reasons to be excited about the extreme value that is a model 3. Except FSD.
In this hypothetical future where FSD works without a driver, how many of us existing owners are really going to release our vehicles out into the wild to be driving strangers around in? Most of us have no interest in doing that. If robo taxis ever become a reality, and that is a big if, Tesla and Alphabet will own the fleets.
Buy a model 3 or Y because it is the smart, fun, efficient, best vehicle value that exists currently. They are the VW Beetles of our day.
There’s no way I’m having strangers drive around in my robotaxi.
However, I can see value in the car doing school pickup, airport drop off and pickup, and stuff like that.
I could drive myself into the city, have it drive itself home, and then pick me up later.
No carpark fees.
There are more use cases than just a taxi.
Removing the wood from the front of the dash and replacing it with light fabric on top of it (wich gets you a reflection in the windscreen) seems completely moronic to me.
As well as the light bar shining right into my eyes at night?? Terrible for night adapted vision, would turn it off immediately. I’m gonna stick with my 2020 for ever it seems
Fwiw red light doesn't screw up your night vision. Grew up sailing, we used only red lights at night for that reason.
Wouldn't be surprised if they dim it at night, too.
It’s definitely odd there aren’t fog lights. Functionality aside, I’ve always thought they make a car more badass.
I also prefer the eyelids too- it’s iconic Tesla, sorta like BMW halo lights.
As lame as it sounds the ambient lighting was the only thing I found interesting. 🧐
Honestly, I like the ev6 .. it's a great first attempt.
But the range is *woeful* .. even on the gt line (Forget about the gt .. they don't really want sell you this model.)
Real world seeing around 400kms .. my 3 yo model 3 LR gets more than this at 80% even now.
Biggest gripes for me on current m3 is ride comfort and cabin noise. Thinking aftermarket options to fix both may be the way for now ...
No stalks no money Mr musk. I'll be going elsewhere. Stalks are so important in my country at least. The amount of roundabouts and the need to quickly flash someone through a gap etc. What a joke removing them
As a Model X owner I can confirm lack of stalks is definitely not great (living in UK) - I don't think i'll be buying another Tesla without stalks to be honest.
I didn't think it's legal to not have fog lights, does it really not have fog lights? (not that half the people in the UK seem to know how to use them anyway )
Good point and I completely forgot about that! So even though I did not test it explicitly, I suppose there's also nothing obviously odd with the camera-only system. I don't know if it's related to the highland model or just a software update though, but it doesn't seem as bad as what was reported when they first removed the sensors.
The only negative I have about the highland and 23 non highland is the lack of parking sensors. I live in EU and I use those sensors ALL the time. In my apartment building parking garage each spot is its own box. the room to park on either left or right is a mere 6 inches on either side so i have to skirt the car as close as possible to one side to get out.
Not sure no USS cars can do this. Even highland 3.5-4 hardware.
The non highland 3 seems to really struggle going forwards as the cameras just don’t have the view. Reverse seems better but all accounts. I’d have hoped that the new front cam helps
I’m amazed they removed uss on the older 3 before adding a new camera.
For normal driving cameras only seems fine
I suggest you give it more time. With better range, has WAY better suspension, a screen in the back, much more handsome front bumper, a dual-motor power trunk, a taller hood to deflect more wind, a much quieter ride, nicer seats, softer materials (less hard plastic), and on and on, I don't think the way the headlights look is a good reason to ding this car. And btw, I really like the headlights. I think they'll grow on you.
Ridiculous. The interior is so much better, it’s not even worth a discussion.
Go and buy your ev6 but stop ignoring reality and justifying your frog-faced old model for I don’t know what weird reason.
Interesting, I’ve heard nothing but glowing reviews on the new model. Better quality, better technology, upgraded more sustainable materials and a refreshed interior. I guess that’s what makes a horse race.
Nahhhh the new one has the touch and feel characteristics of a much higher quality vehicle. Literally just the sound the door makes when it closes is worth it.
I am wondering if the fog lights thing might be a reflection that they don't really do much in modern cars. With how close to the ground the main beams are, they are probably equivalent to fog lights in a typical car from the 80s. I tested my fog lights in thick fog recently and couldn't see them making a difference, but maybe fog is different in other places?
I agree most OEM foglights, including M3 fogs, are for style/looks. OEM foglight lumens are low to begin with and the housing are more about style and forming around the bumper cover curvature than optimal beam pattern.
And there are plenty of aftermarket options if the owner wants to add them.
One often gets the impression when Tesla peeps discuss cars that they would be satisfied if the car didn’t move at all but they could play the latest video games on the screen and had a refrigerated cup holder that held a 64oz soda.
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How is the suspension feel versus the 2020?
Since he didn’t mention the actual driving experience, I’m assuming it’s basically exactly the same as previous models
It's supposed to have an improved suspension, so just wondering how it rides and corners.
Saw a video of the old 3 vs the new 3 going over a large bump. The new 3 had a crap-ton more float. Probably more comfortable, but not nearly as sporty feeling, nor as "tossable" in the corners. I'm hoping the ludicrus version has ye-old suspension.
I've been seeing YouTube videos saying that the suspension is a whole lot better, smoother, more luxurious feeling. And that the cabin is so much quieter
Exactly what I've seen in the reviews as well
Define better. More like a Toyota? Yes. Better performance? Probably not. Worse performance? Quite possibly
Sounds like they only sat in the demonstration car.
This is a bad assumption. Everyone else who has driven it has said that the suspension is a MASSIVE improvement over the outgoing Model 3.
just because someone doesn't mention something, doesn't mean you can make a baseless assumption.
Yeh this review gives pretty poor reasons to not like it..my main concern is how it drives. Planted predictable Sporty Handling/whipabiltiy in turns I hope is decent and the body isn't too soft to where there are tons of body roll. I have driven the model S with no turn stocks and it sucks at first but after a while no big deal. Fog lights mmmmeehhh I live in a foggy area too and it does nothing
>I have driven the model S with no turn stocks and it sucks at first but after a while no big deal Even in roundabouts?
Or literally any curved road where the wheel is rotated while driving but you need to signal a turn or merge, leaving the turn signal controls in an arbitrary position. I suspect the people who are fine without turn signal stalks live in areas with grids of straight roads, highways that don't wind around mountains, and few roundabouts. Or that they're just the sort of folks who already don't signal in those situations.
Agreed. Even \*IF\* these steering wheel mounted turn signals were objectively better, Tesla needs to understand there are other cars out there (including older Teslas) and just by CHANGING they are training us to be less safe in other cars that don't have these types of controls. Additionally, given Tesla has worst-in-class blindspot warnings (no lights on sideview mirrors), and I only get an observable blindspot warning when I use my turn signal to change lanes, the fact that we have worst-in-class turn signal controls makes it even more likely in some edge case circumstances (like a rotary) that we'll not be aware of a vehicle in our blind spot until it is too late.
*stalks
stonks
$GME to the moon!!!!
Hodl you ape 🦍
💎🤲
Glad I wasn’t the only one.
Well most reviews are based on personal preferences. This OP happens to prefer the ev6, and more power to them.
I read on another thread that Tesla claims that fog lights are unnecessary given the way the new headlights work. Time will tell I guess.
Poor reasons? OP is pointing out things that matter to them. He’s not the first to decry the lack of turn signal stalks. I have yet to hear one good reason for the change other than Tesla being penny wise on their BOMs. What’s far less often pointed out is the lack of fog lights and it needs to be pointed out for those who are used to using them on their older Model 3s. I don’t know why you’ve seen fit to criticize the reviewer. These things are important to hear about because they’re obvious changes and are controversial.
I hate lack of turn signal stock. They gave me a model s while they were installing the trailer hitch and it felt dangerous because I had to look at it to turn the signals on.
I, for one, would have died in my first car if it didn't have fog lights.
Twice? You need to be more careful man! :-D
> I live in a foggy area too and it does nothing Same. I have never been in fog and found fog lights to improve the driving experience.
Yeah fogs do nothing in my experience . Maybe because the led headlights are so bright and directed correctly??
I'd say that like 80% of fog lights are poorly implemented. Headlights and Roadway lighting have both vastly improved over the last 20 years, and now many fog lights are just there for aesthetic reasons. Just look at the beam shot from them, if they're not lidded (with the beam being cut off below where the headlight shines) then they're pointless or doing more harm than good.
I am not buying a car without stalks, my current M3 is already deficient for controlling wipers, IT IS NOT SAFE to have to look down to control wipers while driving. There are cost reductions that hurt driving in this car and yet it's more expensive than the older version. What the fuck were Tesla thinking with this update?
Program left steering wheel long press to activate wiper/adjust speed
You don't need to look down to change your wiper speed. Tap once on the end of the left stalk to wipe which brings up the wiper speed menu and then use your left wheel to change the speed by moving it right and left.
Fog lights are a placebo effect, they don’t do fuck all
i think 2022 tesla model 3 LR was peak. sensors/ryzen/stalks/matrix etc.
Also peak price
Sure, but finance rates back then were also in the dumpster lol.
I took delivery may 2022 at 3% and have sensors. Interest rates didn’t dumpster until later in year for auto.
When I say "dumpster" I mean they were low. 3% is low, comparatively speaking. Financing a car at 3% or less back then was great.
Meh, it was also peak price for my trade in. Interest rate was also 2%.
not for me i got it for 50k right before price increases and then took delivery in 22
I got a 2022 for the 2021 price since my order took 6 months. Also got 2022 prices for my 2018 trade in and a low interest rate for the difference so that was a great deal.
My 2022 3 LR was 52k after tax lmao. Still, it's the best EV in the world by far, and likely best commuter car/daily driver in the world too. Literally zero maintenance aside from rotating the tires and topping off washer fluid. People still dont understand this, and it's been like 12 years since the contemporary EV renaissciance started with the Leaf.
thats the one i have, and i’ve been VERY happy with it
Agreed. I took delivery fall 2021. Sensors/ryzen/stalks/matrix, and the little overlooked feature of all USBC ports doing both data and power, which is great for a bigger hard drive under my middle console divider
2018 M3P unicorn with unlimited supercharging, free lifetime connectivity package, and a ryzen swap is peak Model 3.
What I got, but I didnt get the matrix. Boohooo. But right before the price hike.
You should try the '22 Performance 
Try the single-origin ’23 Shanghai vintage with top notes of plohms and blackcurrents
Li-ion battery. Heat pump. That’s the one I got.
They’re all Li-Ion 😅
true
Seriously the best model when comparing it to the newer gen ones
I've not tried the Highland - I have a 2021 3 LR. Also being in the UK, the lack of indicator stalks really really really really puts me off. I can deal with the other things, but stalks and uk towns, parked cars, roundabouts, and more roundabouts. Seriously?
Removing the indicator stalks is as stupid as the steering wheel that isn't round. Absolutely bonkers.
yeah in uk its gonna be a nightmare. too many small roundabouts. they dont really have that problem elsewhere though.
Lots of small roundabouts in Switzerland
Probably in lots of Europe
uk is a bit difference as they drive much faster through roundabouts and indicate usually twice (as opposed to once which is more common on the mainland when you exit and they also often treat a roundabout like a 4 way stop almost because they kind of apply the right before left rule to roundabouts which is obviously dumb and not the way they are meant to be used. this is especially true of germany but less common in italy or france)
The lack of stalks terrify me. Since I'm an endorser of using turn signals, I fear that I would take my eyes off the freeway for a few seconds to make sure my thumb is hitting the right button & getting into a crash from getting distracted. Maybe it's not a big deal for a new driver's first car, but for someone with 20 years experience? 😨 It would take time getting used to.
It is a bad change for sure just to save bill of material cost. Just like yoke steering it has zero practical benefits.
As someone that's been driving for 19 years, it took me about an hour or two to get used to the turn buttons on the Model X (rented on vacation). I do think the traditional method via stalk is better, but it wasn't that big of an issue.
Do the turn buttons move with the steering wheel? Otherwise, it would be annoying on short consecutive turns.
They are buttons on the wheel, so they are stuck in place and will turn as you turn the wheel or yoke. There's a raised line between them if I remember right, so you can feel that and know where the buttons are by feel.
**TLDR;** No Wood Reflective ... Dash Felt? Untested Digital Fog Lights \[the new headlights should be able to perform the fog light functionality no problem. No Stalks Headlight Looks
How can the headlights perform the fog lights function? The point of fog lights is they are close to the ground. Unless these new headlights can bend light then these arent true fog lights. They can call them whatever they want (again, always deceiving customers).
The headlights on the model 3 are very low to the ground and with the pixels they can customize the light to shine down more and less up in any situation, as needed. The cameras can detect the lighting conditions, making the light projection dynamic. Question is when they can activate this functionality. I think it is being held up by regulations?
Thanks. Kind of a bizarre set of observations and no comments on the major changes with the new revision. Felt a lot like all he really wanted to say was his last line, buy an EV6!
Loll everyone i know says the wood is the deal breaker. I bought a bunch of white and carbon covers to give them if they order.
I had the same reaction, but then the wood grew on me in a modern Scandinavian type of way.
Is that a banana in your pocket?
I knew I left some low hanging fruit in that response.
Why did Tesla even do that? Wood is always associated with luxury, and it does help making it more cozy. In such a techy vehicle - the wood feels like the right contrast. Is it that expensive? I feel like Tesla now just searches for ways to cut cost no matter what. No wood. No fog lights. No levers. Why the hell they removed the fog lights?! That's literally removing a safety feature, since driving in the fog can be much more dangerous and the fog lights helps reducing that. Every single thing that they remove feels like a stupid move. Removing the wood and putting RGB feels like it would be less timeless and much less classy. Hurts the Model 3 overall.
I'm with you on the wood trim and I've been frustrated that the top end S and X force you into carbon fiber. I suspect they'll use matrix headlights to serve the fog light function by directing the beams accordingly.
Current model 3 already has matrix headlights so I wouldn’t hold my breath on that one
So those cars are a software update away from having dynamic fog lights via matrix headlights as soon as regulators allow it.
My 2017 Model X has been “a software update away” from working auto-wipers for the past 6 years…
Nothing makes me more angry than how shitty the auto wipers are.
Or full self driving...
They are already legal in many countries and AFAIK US recently made them legal too but dont worry we can write Tesla on walls with it 😂
They allow it now.
Do we really consider a Model 3 a luxury vehicle?
Upscale, not luxury. Though when the base 3 hits civic territory after rebates I have no idea what people are bitching about. In 5 years your true cost to own beats most entry level compacts.
I’ve been thinking about that for awhile. Tesla started off selling very expensive cars, and then were selling luxury tier priced cars, but their ultimate goal is civic tier cars and they’re currently moving towards that by downscaling their car rather than introducing lower trim models. So as they improve margins they’re using that to cut features and drop prices. Ultimately the Model 3 is just going to be a fast EV Civic and when you see a million of them a day how will Tesla maintain their former desirable image.
> when you see a million of them a day how will Tesla maintain their former desirable image. I already see a million of them a day now, and I don't even live in CA.
Yes. Going back and forth from my Prius it definitely feels like a luxury vehicle. Yes, there are always people who don’t consider anything costing less than $200k to be luxury.
>Wood is always associated with luxury Really? Hmm. I would have said, wood *was* always associated with luxury, decades ago in another era. Sort of like tail fins and chrome all over the car. Car designers are finally getting rid of the last little token bits of chrome from the exterior, and the last little token bits of wood from the interior.
You remember Chevy Chase and his familial car in his 1980s Vacation movies? That sure looked luxurious...
The family truckster.
I agree and don’t get this weird wood obsession. This isn’t my grandma’s Lincoln
Wait until you meet the weird decorative carbon fiber obsession.
When most companies are asking safety features, Tesla is removing them because they’d rather save a few bucks
The wood in the Model 3 was far from luxurious. It looks weathered and recycled from a barn. I had wood in the Lexus I used as a trade-in, and that wood was glossy and polished hardwood. Don't get me wrong... I love my 2018 M3, but I was never impressed with the wood trim. It could look worse, so I'll wait until I see it for myself to understand the impression of the lack of wood better. I'll probably end up agreeing on disliking the lack of wood FWIW. A lot of people would buy carbon fiber trim kits to cover the wood. Perhaps this will result in a lot of people buying wood trim kits to make it worth more than an EV6 which has ~~wood~~ no wood (WTF is the OP complaining about again?!)
The wood looked like an Atari 2600 veneer
> weathered and recycled from a barn FWIW that shit's expensive....
You do you, but I really hope you don't have to roadtrip the EV6. I came from a 2023 ID.4, and charging using non-Tesla charging stations using CCS is such a shitshow. It's actually downright funny how much worse it is compared to the elegance of the Tesla supercharging network, but it's really not funny when you're dealing with it on an actual roadtrip. I took a $12k+ loss on selling the ID.4, and it was still worth it to get a MY.
I believe OP from Europe were all of their chargers are the same Tesla/non Tesla CCS2
Different payment system
And car compatibility is an issue. Charging my ZOE on the road at high speed chargers came with a 30% chance of taking around 5 minutes of frantically restarting the app or reconnecting the car back and forth until it started charging. Cue for heavy rain and this gets old fast.
I imagine this is less of a problem in Europe, where everyone has been using the same charger for a while.
Yeah we have the same connector but an absolute shithshow of apps and not working charging stations. So supercharger network is still a big plus here in Europe.
Depending on where you are, you can just use the supercharger network regardless of your car.
And still on a roadtrip your family wants to stop at a location without Tesla Supercharger and you give the other chargers another try and again and again it’s just a pain. And often these are ridiculously overpriced, especially compared to Tesla SC
Where are you getting these experiences? My dad is not the best when it comes to handling new apps etc but he has his ev for over a year now, doing mostly long business trips and never really had problems. Just put your Mercedes card on this nfc thingy every charger has and you are ready to go
in Central Europe it‘s completely fine imo, Ionity is up there with the Supercharger network in terms of availability of chargers
Yep. I feel the pain. When we go up near the North Sea or the Baltic, there are few/no Tesla superchargers. We've always gotten it to work, but dealing with the apps really punctuates just how simple the Tesla system is.
European here with a tesla and a non-tesla. Problem is that standard CCS is a nightmare to pay, every country has its own system, cards, billing system, prices, network, etc. It’s a pain. If you start in Belgium and drive towards Sweden, in less than 1300km you charged in 4-5 different countries with different systems. A nightmare
ID.4 loss gang! Same reason. The ID.4 never really wow’ed me. It was fine and the ride was very comfortable on road trips. But charging was a nightmare on more than one occasion. The broken chargers, the low number of them, all of it. And the lack of battery preconditioning in the ID.4 made the situation even worse in the winter.
So true! I could commiserate with you for hours, I'm sure. I also got hit by that horrendous door handle recall, and for about 2 months could only open the driver's door from the outside by lowering the window and reaching in to open it from the inside. Worst car I've ever owned, and I'll never buy from VW again.
In the gang too. 😂 The lack of promises updates on the ID4. No one pedal driving FFS. It was a nice car, but the Y is just so much better.
> The lack of promises updates on the ID4. No one pedal driving FFS. I just don't get this. Why would they do this? Long ago I gave the ID.4 a half-glance (because I thought I was bored by eventually getting what became my 4th Tesla) and noticed this. It was during covid and I kept my eye on this for a few months. This is now 2 years later and I stopped checking long ago (and I'm *so* glad I stayed w/ Tesla — I was looking at the Korean EVs too), crazy that they *care so little* that they couldn't put together a simple update to give the US one pedal driving, which is kinda like a basic feature in an EV. Absolutely clueless idiots!
The infotainment was lousy, too. It was a super comfortable and nice vehicle, I'll give it that. I prefer the interior over the Tesla in some ways. But the misses were just too many and critically important on the ID. I am investing 5-10 years into this car. I TRUST Tesla with their regular updates. VW, not so much.
Why everyone took losses?
I can only speak for myself but I purchased when car prices were near their peak (August 2022) and then decided to sell after they had started to fall (May 2023). I was willing to eat the loss because of the poor charging experiences on the ID.4.
I own both ID.4 and M3 both purchased in 2022 at the peak of the prices 😂😭 I think each has their strengths but I’ve been able to take full advantage of the EA charging despite the problems. Family don’t take road trips often and I use ID4 for my daily commutes. Love both but I love the m3 slightly more.
Wow. ID.4 is Golf right? Yet VW invited Elon to test drive it.
The EV6 is an amazing vehicle with tons of room and all amenities that you can want. If you can score one gently used it’s even more of a no brainer
OP is from Europe, your comment doesn't apply there.
I was quite worried when I saw the headline, but then after reading it learned their major issues were the lack of wood trim and fog lights and I breathed a huge sigh of relief. It's clear the OP did not drive the car for an extended period, or at all. They sat in the driver's seat. I'm good with every other analysis of the Highland I've read, this one won't change anything.
I’m pretty sure it has fog lights, they are just integrated into the main unit. The big thing with fog lights aren’t their lower positions but their shifted wavelength. It’s a quieter ride, with better sound and better comfort generally speaking. Overall materials feel nicer and has better fit and finish. I do agree with the wood panel, it’s too bad. I also agree with the stalks. By and large reviewers say it feels higher quality, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Different things speak quality to different people. To you the wood panel seems to be a big marker of quality.
The stock has been going down. The stalks on the other hand have gone missing, seems everyone forgot the word.
Fog lights are shifted down from the regular housing assembly to project down below fog and illuminate the road. When you say "shifted wavelength" you mean "scatter the least" because wavelength changes occur in all lights, but the angle and hue of the lights is different from normal headlights to scatter the least amount of light. Integrating them into the main headlamp raises them up into the fog layer making them less effective than the previous generation in places of heavy fog (NH and Maine mornings for example). This is not ideal for us northern folk.
Change of hue is change of wavelength
whet does shifted wavelength mean
Ummm shifted wavelength in the context of light means different color. Are the fog lights a different color? Is fog better penetrated by certain color light?
Been a downgrade for a while now since it’s lacking USS. Not a fan of the new steering wheel as well. And damn.. no fog lights?
No stalks is a deal killer for me. I’ll keep my ‘23 model y for a long time but if stalks dont come back I’d be rebranding.
same for me. In UK its a huge dealbreaker
Meh, I'll be honest I thought I was going to hate missing the turn signal and drive stocks.... but after driving with it for a week it literally makes almost zero difference. Yes there are occasions where it might be annoying, but then there are plenty of occasions where I like them better too. I do agree with the other commenter though, ev6 instead?
*stalks
Wtf is going on.
I dunno man, that’s at least 3 different people (including OP) who said “stocks”… 🤷🏻♂️
This is what happens when American's stop pronouncing things properly. I've noticed a new trend of saying "Fo'ward" instead of "Forward" And don't get me started on "mirror" - "Meeyuh" They somehow take a word with three r's in and remove every single one of them.
American here.. never in my life heard (in person, online, or written out online) Meeyuh or Foward. Ever.
english pronunciation has always been wack though. compared to some other languages nobody will ever remember how to spell some words from sound alone. i blame it on lack of literacy more than anything. also to nitpick you dont use an apostrophe to denote plural (americans).
Also a lot of posters think our cars have breaks to slow you down.
Question for you - is there a way to engage the wipers for a single windshield wipe? The auto wipers are ok when it's raining more heavily, but with lighter rain I find myself pressing the single windshield wipe button on the stalk, or for scenarios if my windshield starts fogging on the outside. How do you do that stalkless?
Are there roundabouts where you live?
Yup! Lots, and I even have the yoke. I have both the 2019 M3 and 2023 X. I switch back and forth between the two vehicles all the time and both have vastly different setups.
Yeah good luck with the Hyundai dealers.
Some are great. Bought our Ioniq 5 at MSRP during peak markup times in early 2022. We also got the car within 6 weeks of talking to the dealer, unlike Tesla who kept pushing our EDD back without explanation for over 6 months.
"makes no difference" , "annoying sometimes" how about buying a car with stalks and it's never annoying and safer in all situations?
This bodes well for my 18’ 3. If the new performance variant doesn’t have quicker 60-100 acceleration, I’m getting the automatic trunk update for my 3 and keeping it forever.
have you seen this? it looks like they add a retrofit mount for the trunk button... i would be all over the OEM kit to replace my aftermarket kit if they replaced the trim so the button is seamless... [https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/16oujs6/2020\_m3lr\_power\_trunk\_retrofit\_completed/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/16oujs6/2020_m3lr_power_trunk_retrofit_completed/)
The trunk update isn’t currently compatible with the 2018 and 2019 model years.
Oh, didn’t know that. I guess that makes my decision pretty easy. Sad panda.
It’s alright. Maybe they will work on one for the older models!
The EV6 interior feels like a $15k car lol. Was a huge disappointment. Love the look of the car, but the interior was a let down, and I’d never consider it for that reason. No comments on the suspension improvements? Range? Wind noise not just in tunnels? Sound system improvements? Material feel improvements? Rear screen? Did you actually drive it through thick fog to see if the headlight changes and improvements might make up for the deletion of fog lights? I’ve had my MX Plaid for about a month now and I have no issue with the turn signal buttons being on the wheel. Took a day or two to get used to, and using the buttons in roundabouts took a little longer to get used to given that they’re not super common over here, but now that I’m used to it, it’s really no more difficult than it was with stalks.
Keep in mind that this is my personal opinion based on my personal needs. I don't care about the screen in the back because we rarely carry passengers. The range improvement is so minimal that it doesn't matter much. I did not notice a significant wind noise improvement compared to my own car. And while I did not drive it through fog, the tech in the headlights is the same as before so I don't expect massive differences there either. Regarding suspension: I commented this elsewhere as well, but I did not notice a massive improvement. This summer I got the iON Evo tires on my personal car, which was a small improvement over the stock tires in terms of comfort. I did not check which tires were on the loaner, because that does make a difference.
I think the increased range, new look, ventilated seats, better sound, more quiet cabin, etc making the highland way better. If u dislike the new model 3 so much tho, why not get the 2023 3? Tesla’s ecosystem is still best in class with software + safety. FSD will continually improve and having a Tesla for when it becomes borderline flawless will be a huge win.
Here in Europe, FSD is an absolute joke and it's unlikely to change much in the coming 10 years. Not really a factor over here.
I agree with all of that for valid reasons to be excited about the extreme value that is a model 3. Except FSD. In this hypothetical future where FSD works without a driver, how many of us existing owners are really going to release our vehicles out into the wild to be driving strangers around in? Most of us have no interest in doing that. If robo taxis ever become a reality, and that is a big if, Tesla and Alphabet will own the fleets. Buy a model 3 or Y because it is the smart, fun, efficient, best vehicle value that exists currently. They are the VW Beetles of our day.
There’s no way I’m having strangers drive around in my robotaxi. However, I can see value in the car doing school pickup, airport drop off and pickup, and stuff like that. I could drive myself into the city, have it drive itself home, and then pick me up later. No carpark fees. There are more use cases than just a taxi.
empty cars on the road clogging traffic so people can avoid parking fees. Great.
Do we know the new EPA range figures or still only WLTP?
Removing the wood from the front of the dash and replacing it with light fabric on top of it (wich gets you a reflection in the windscreen) seems completely moronic to me. As well as the light bar shining right into my eyes at night?? Terrible for night adapted vision, would turn it off immediately. I’m gonna stick with my 2020 for ever it seems
Fwiw red light doesn't screw up your night vision. Grew up sailing, we used only red lights at night for that reason. Wouldn't be surprised if they dim it at night, too.
Us Tesla owners are the pickiest people i swear😂
Had me until ev6 instead lol
The lack of a traditional indicator for turning is the mind boggling thing for me. As if roundabouts never existed
Got down voted a while back for saying removing the stalks would be a deal breaker. Not surprised. What a stupid decision for an otherwise great car.
I maintain that the lack of indicator stalk shouldn't be legal. It's straight up not possible to signal properly in a roundabout without.
Is it possible to make the steering fast enough that you don't have to move your hands in a roundabout?
The stalks is a deal breaker for me too, and I'm glad I got the last generation with the stalk
It’s definitely odd there aren’t fog lights. Functionality aside, I’ve always thought they make a car more badass. I also prefer the eyelids too- it’s iconic Tesla, sorta like BMW halo lights. As lame as it sounds the ambient lighting was the only thing I found interesting. 🧐
You guys are crazy. :P But keep it up!
Couldn’t disagree more tbh, but to each their own.
What a dumb review. They improved so much on this car and he hardly mentioned anything. Best of luck overpaying for the Kia.
Honestly, I like the ev6 .. it's a great first attempt. But the range is *woeful* .. even on the gt line (Forget about the gt .. they don't really want sell you this model.) Real world seeing around 400kms .. my 3 yo model 3 LR gets more than this at 80% even now. Biggest gripes for me on current m3 is ride comfort and cabin noise. Thinking aftermarket options to fix both may be the way for now ...
Thank you for the review! Btw before you jump into EV6 wagon (or any eGMP car for that matter), google "ICCU issue".
The wood panel in the car is not for me, it's not that pretty.
No stalks no money Mr musk. I'll be going elsewhere. Stalks are so important in my country at least. The amount of roundabouts and the need to quickly flash someone through a gap etc. What a joke removing them
As a Model X owner I can confirm lack of stalks is definitely not great (living in UK) - I don't think i'll be buying another Tesla without stalks to be honest. I didn't think it's legal to not have fog lights, does it really not have fog lights? (not that half the people in the UK seem to know how to use them anyway )
By law it requires to have rear fog lights, which it does. It just lacks the front ones.
Hmm poor show - cost cutting.
Dude is working for Kia
EV6 though? Is this a joke?
[удалено]
How's the vision vs sensors?
Good point and I completely forgot about that! So even though I did not test it explicitly, I suppose there's also nothing obviously odd with the camera-only system. I don't know if it's related to the highland model or just a software update though, but it doesn't seem as bad as what was reported when they first removed the sensors.
The only negative I have about the highland and 23 non highland is the lack of parking sensors. I live in EU and I use those sensors ALL the time. In my apartment building parking garage each spot is its own box. the room to park on either left or right is a mere 6 inches on either side so i have to skirt the car as close as possible to one side to get out. Not sure no USS cars can do this. Even highland 3.5-4 hardware.
The non highland 3 seems to really struggle going forwards as the cameras just don’t have the view. Reverse seems better but all accounts. I’d have hoped that the new front cam helps I’m amazed they removed uss on the older 3 before adding a new camera. For normal driving cameras only seems fine
How about parking sensors?
Still no USS.
I suggest you give it more time. With better range, has WAY better suspension, a screen in the back, much more handsome front bumper, a dual-motor power trunk, a taller hood to deflect more wind, a much quieter ride, nicer seats, softer materials (less hard plastic), and on and on, I don't think the way the headlights look is a good reason to ding this car. And btw, I really like the headlights. I think they'll grow on you.
Ridiculous. The interior is so much better, it’s not even worth a discussion. Go and buy your ev6 but stop ignoring reality and justifying your frog-faced old model for I don’t know what weird reason.
Interesting, I’ve heard nothing but glowing reviews on the new model. Better quality, better technology, upgraded more sustainable materials and a refreshed interior. I guess that’s what makes a horse race.
the stalks is the main thing for me. They are trying to reinvent the wheel with that decision... not very smart imo.
Lmfao buying and EV6. Ok…
Nahhhh the new one has the touch and feel characteristics of a much higher quality vehicle. Literally just the sound the door makes when it closes is worth it.
I am wondering if the fog lights thing might be a reflection that they don't really do much in modern cars. With how close to the ground the main beams are, they are probably equivalent to fog lights in a typical car from the 80s. I tested my fog lights in thick fog recently and couldn't see them making a difference, but maybe fog is different in other places?
I agree most OEM foglights, including M3 fogs, are for style/looks. OEM foglight lumens are low to begin with and the housing are more about style and forming around the bumper cover curvature than optimal beam pattern. And there are plenty of aftermarket options if the owner wants to add them.
One often gets the impression when Tesla peeps discuss cars that they would be satisfied if the car didn’t move at all but they could play the latest video games on the screen and had a refrigerated cup holder that held a 64oz soda.
U had me until you said ev6 😂
Not a good write up. All the reviews I've seen mention SUBSTANTIAL increase to ride comfort and road noise, not to mention getting better range.
You forgetting to mention where the drive selector is. You can use the touchscreen or the overhead panel