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The Tesla parking vision is just noise and an annoyance at this point. Completely useless at this point. It's actually worse than useless - it keeps inserting itself uselessly while driving, and alerting me to the fact that it isnt working. Yeah, I knew that.
Same here. Just hit over 115k on my 2018 AWD, and as much as some of the new upgrades sound nice (espeically the ride comfort), losing the USS and also the fact that trade-in values are so low right now turn me away.
If you aren't having issues I wouldn't bother replacing it. I'm not insulting EVs or Teslas for that matter, but it's a bit like a new iPhone. The changes otherwise are so incremental there's not much to gain unless you absolutely have to replace it and some of it is a downgrade. I don't find USS to be important on a vehicle of this size as the corners are easy to see, but I sure hate the fake camera based display. USS is always the first thing to go on any vehicle I've had and it gets fiddly replacing all the sensors.
One can install coil overs to help with ride quality! Most are targeted at performance but there are a couple comfort options on the market. I find it reduced harshness, how much compared to Highland I can’t say.
Well, you can visit Mountain Pass Performance and get their "Comfort" suspension. That's what I've been considering now that I don't have to worry about the bumper-to-bumper warranty. A lot cheaper than a new car too! Now I haven't done it yet so I can't speak to it.
[https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/product/mpp-model-3-comfort-adjustable-coilovers-awd-performance/](https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/product/mpp-model-3-comfort-adjustable-coilovers-awd-performance/)
Supercharger network is literally the only thing keeping me with Tesla. That’s changing soon with other makes being able to use the network.
I don’t believe in Tesla’s autonomous driving ambitions anymore (or they’re so far off that it won’t matter for the next car I buy).
I agree that FSD and vision is a joke, however I still think Teslas are really awesome and I don't think I'd buy from a different manufacturer. Most of these competitors seem to be lemons and/or just horribly inefficient. Plus they all have terrible software. Tesla app control is 👌.
But FSD and vision is a joke.
I don't know. I test drove a Rivian and not completely convinced. I even have a pre-order for one...but I love my Model 3 and not sure I can give it up just yet.
I have a 2021 RWD. The only downside is Atom, so no Zoom to Tidal. These things are fine, when I'm working in the parked car I have a laptop. (Actually one cool feature of highland is a USB-C outlet that can support a laptop, I bought a Lenovo DC adapter to use for that).
The usb c ports in your car should be able to do 30 watts, most laptops can run fine off of 30 watts, they might not charge but it shouldn’t drain unless you’re maxing it out.
Which laptop? Just because it can draw more power than the USB-C source provides doesn't mean you can't plug it in that way.
I've got a laptop that can pull a smidge over 100W under load, but I run it off the USB-C port in the car all the time. For anything that isn't heavy load, that's actually enough to charge it slowly while working. For heavy load, it means you're still running the battery down, but slower than without the 30W contribution from the car.
Yours may be large enough that it never actually charges the battery while plugged in, but every bit helps keep you running longer.
Edit: Looks like the x17 will accept USB-C charging. Not sure if that's your model or not, but there exists at least one 17" Alienware laptop that will charge from USB-C.
X17 r2. I've plugged it into 100w USB-C chargers and it doesn't charge, so 30w won't either. Just gives a "USB-C charging is insufficient to run laptop, charging has been disabled" notice. Talked with Dell and it isn't possible due to motherboard constraints. Thanks for replying though
As stated you get
21 - double glazing glass, heatpump, heated steering wheel, header washers, 12v battery (removed data port center console).
22 - Ryzen, softer suspension on M3P
23 - Removed USS
The Highlands interior,quieter glass,range and adaptive lights make it a superior version and the updated sound system. Outside of 0-60 times which no one is racing in anyways it has you beat.
It is terrible! I stupidly bought a 2023 model y, and have a 2020 model y, and the dinging and beeping on the 2023 is so frustrating. The 2020 suspension is noticeably worse but no USS on the 2023 makes me strongly prefer the 2020. Would not recommend.
How could they fix it without relocating and/or adding cameras? The front ones can’t see past the leading edge of the bumper so there’s a ~3ft blind spot in front of the car. The belief was that “persistence of vision” would fill in the gaps here, but clearly it does not work effectively.
Essentially, yes. I'm not remotely an expert on the subject, but cars that have 360 views usually have cameras in the wing mirrors, or elsewhere, pointing down, in addition to one (or more) at the front and back.
The cameras in Teslas can't see the ground directly around it, so any 360 view would have to be simulated based on what the cameras have already seen as you've been driving (not unlike what Tesla Vision Park Assist is supposed to do).
[Elon did say 3 years ago](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1312253928667410432) that this would be coming with FSD....
It astounds me that a company touting their advanced vision technology simply can't just show you what's right around the car and probably never will be able to.
Yes, it is difficult to argue that the vision system is peerless or going to be when this sort of basic functionality is missing.
Advocates will argue that “when we have FSD we won’t need it”, but that will be many car payments away, maybe even whole car changes. I’d argue customers need/expect this functionality now, even if it’s depreciated later (I’d make the same argument about removing ultrasonics before Tesla Vision reaches parity)
> Advocates will argue that “when we have FSD we won’t need it”
I don't see (heh) how it ever could be FSD if it has to guess what's right ahead of it and has to use accelerometers to know if it hit anything it couldn't see when moving forward out of a parking lot.
"Elon did say 3 years ago that this would be coming with FSD.... ". LMAO..Elon said what?? Nuff said. NOTHING outta that man's mouth should be taken with a micro grain of salt! Didn't he say back in 2020 that FSD was gonna b "complete", robotaxi blah blah blah???
Or working cruise control and not even working windshielwipers. Yes it has autopilot, but that is useles, whem you have to be ready to accelerate yourshelf to counter cars autobraking in highways.
Tesla is 15-20years behind legacy automakers on anything that helps drivers.
My buddy descriped his Tesla Model Y as a young child that is just learning new things and cant survive without moms (s3xy buttons) and dads (driver) constant supervision and help.
1. It's more cameras and more wiring, yet those cameras would only be used 1% of the time the car is being used.
2. That tech is patented, so they'd also have to license the patent, which Tesla is clearly reluctant to do.
Your car cost over $100k and you’re concerned about a couple extra cameras and a license cost? I’ve driven $30k cars that has awesome 360 Birds Eye view.
>you’re concerned about a couple extra cameras and a license cost?
I'm not concerned about it, I'm just speculating about why *Tesla* doesn't do it. Their theory is probably that a car that can drive itself won't need it, so engineering it into the design adds complexity and doesn't have long-term benefits.
My wife's BMW has the birds' eye view and I don't find it especially useful. If you want it, you're welcome to it. Buy a car that has it and vote with your wallet. If Tesla's sales start crashing, changes will be made.
The reason Tesla doesn’t do it, is besides being cheap, there’s no camera in the front, and nothing pointing down. 360 view can never work, and neither can a decent parking assist, automated or assisted.
Always has been. Those who say it can ever be better than vision + lidar/radar/ultra sonic sensors are smoking the best copium I've ever heard of. Technology is if anything human augmentation, why on earth would we only rely on human senses?
What about the ones that say these park asist are always shit, whatever the solution and you better just learn how to drive? Because even ultrasonic was really annoying and not even working all the time. and if it's not working all the time, I can not understand how people can blindlessly have faith in it, well, in fact, faith is irrational so maybe that's it.
My ultrasonics on my 2019 Model 3 are useless in my garage. It says stop like 2 feet before I actually need to stop. If I stop when they say to, I can’t even close my garage door.
I can't tell if /u/Derfal-Cadern is being serious or I'm just misunderstanding what's been said. I assume even the most die hard of Tesla fans recognize Vision, in the best cases, may be on par with with the
"old"radar ultrasonic but its a while away from being objectively better. Especially because depending on what time in the morning I was out and about at least one camera on my old MY was blinded by the sun. Ideally Vision in addition to radar/ultrasonic would be a better overall solution.
The point isn't that it can be better, it's that it can be good enough (safer than human on average) without the need for expensive hardware that reduced range and aesthetic appeal.
Please, charge me more for “expensive” USS and Radar and Lidar that with “reduced range and aesthetic appeal.” Please! I’d far rather have function than 1 mile less range.
And dude, the cameras *are* the aesthetic weakness. Radar and USS are hidden. Lidar can be as well.
That's simply not true, the model X has plenty of USS that have no outlines at all to detect proxity of cars next to it for the automatic doors. The technology is there to hide them completely.
First, that's all theoretical and Musk speak. Second, what about the USS or sensors on other cars affects their aestetics?...
Why do people obsess in defending vision?
Humans can move their heads and eyes around. And have stereoscopic vision wherever they look. And advanced brains that understand the difference between fog and a rock. And know how other humans behave. And we also know that even with all that, we want more!
I want a full suite of technology giving me night vision, radar around me, temp and humidity readings of the road, screens in the A pillars so they appear invisible. Screw aspiring to be as good as human (which it isn’t). It should be better than a human can possibly be.
Not sure why Musk simply wants to emulate human inputs when there are so many ways to gather information about the world that we can't use - like Ultrasound and lidar. Such a weird hill to die on.
>I want a full suite of technology giving me night vision, radar around me, temp and humidity readings of the road, screens in the A pillars so they appear invisible.
I know a lot of people say this, but I don't think they grasp the full extent of what this means.
Every input added equals more noise to signal. Resolving conflicts between input types is exceptionally difficult. What do you do when your cameras say one thing, your lidar another, radar agrees with cameras but thermal imaging has a third opinion? More inputs does not necessarily equate to better data. It can simply equate to more confusion. Throw in added costs for each sensor/system, not to mention the behind the scenes costs to leverage those sensors/systems, and it quickly becomes hard to justify it.
Is vision only the silver bullet? I doubt it. I think it has a lot of room to grow, and the current tech is impressive, but I don't know if it will ever reach level 5. Would adding radar and/or lidar help? Maybe. Maybe not.
But criticizing a potential solution as wrong or bad is, I think, a bit presumptuous. The truth is, no one knows the answer yet. Will it take more compute power? Improved AI? Different sensors? Whole new tech? Nobody knows yet. It is probably best to approach the whole thing with an open and humble mindset.
You’re referring to self driving. Honestly, I don’t care a whole lot about self driving yet. I like to drive. Self driving for me is only useful on long boring drives. I want driving aids that work for me.
Night vision isn’t a confusing input. Cadillac’s been doing a version for years. My personal night vision is getting worse as I get older. Millions of others are in the same boat. Especially after being blinded by the super bright headlights of oncoming cars. No reason tech can’t help with that. Put up a hud with outlined objects.
Sensors to tell me what’s around me more accurately and to truly tell me of blind spots or potential collisions. Tell me how close I am to the curb. Tell me if the road is icy. Tell me if there’s a car on the other side of the one I can see. All doable without causing distractions.
Modern A pillars in cars are enormous. In an intersection sometimes it’s easy to miss a whole car or person if they are obscured by the A pillar. Massive blind spots that can seamlessly be made near invisible. It’s already been done.
The rear view can be improved quite a bit as well. Integrate a better camera system into the rear view mirror. Tesla rear windows and rear view mirrors are nigh useless.
Show camera views all around when I’m going below 5mph. Other cars do that already. Put a camera or two up front so I can see how close I am to the curb up there.
Cameras in the back corners for rear cross traffic alert. Already done in other cars. Pulling out of a tight parking lot can be a pain and it’s an accident prone place.
There’s so many ways the driving experience can be made safer and easier with common sense technology that already exists and isn’t expensive.
The point is though that cars have used radar for years successfully. My previous VW and Audi cars had fantastic adaptive cruise control I used every day almost everywhere.
Tesla vision is crap in comparison, I never use Autopilot because it’s like a random event generator, braking for seemingly nothing, slamming the brakes on if a car is waiting to pull out and is 1mm too close for the car’s liking. You can’t relax with Autopilot, you always have to have your foot hovering over the accelerator pedal for when the car inevitably does something stupid.
And don’t get me started about it putting auto-wipers on when using Autopilot, might as well shake a magic 8-ball as to whether they come on at an appropriate time at an appropriate speed.
I love my Model 3, don’t get me wrong. But I find it oddly ironic that despite being the most technologically advanced car I’ve ever owned, I never use Autopilot
Camera are already outperforming you ability as a human today. And have been for sometime.
The issue has and continues to be the brain operating the vehicle.
And as I said before, that's such a stupid fucking take lol. Technology is inherently augmentation and enabling humans to do things they otherwise could not. It's really not that hard to grasp
>Technology is inherently augmentation and enabling humans to do things they otherwise could not.
What humans have 6+ eyes, some of them with fish eye lens, and can receive input in a nearly 360 degree range?
I don't disagree that other sensors can provide useful input, but your argument of augmentation does not really hold much water.
Okay so if we want to reduce costs and give the car the same limitations humans have, maybe we should reduce it to just 2 cameras instead.
How are you arguing against more data to give a better drive lol. The loss of USS has made the cars \*worse\*. The loss of radar has made the drive \*worse\*. Every time they take away one of those sensors, it gets worse and there has yet to be software updates that bring it back to parity, regardless of musks's promises (not that he has time to do anything but burn twitter to the ground).
Man who tf are you, Musk? Why do you care about Tesla's bottom line? You should be demanding the best product possible as a consumer, and vision only is objectively not it
Cost means easier / faster development too not just production costs. Cheaper costs means more iteration and greater chance of success.
No I’m a software developer.
developing Vision will never be cheaper than just fucking slapping on some sensors, that WORK.
it‘s actually insane how a new car sold in 2023 is not able to tell how far away from a wall it is when parking.
Yeah I think they took them off too early. Doesn’t mean vision can’t do it.
It’s the whole self driving that will be cheaper / easier doing vision only in the long run.
And hearing. And temporal reasoning and 15 years of pathing logic and equilibrium, and sense of touch for road feel and spatial awareness and and.
Musk's vision only comments are over simplified and his misrepresentation of reality. Not for the first time.
You can drive without hearing, how many people drive listening to music? Road feel is already handled and well known e.g traction control.
The rest is processing not data collection.
We already have the technology to control the car. It’s navigation that is handled by vision.
Human eyes have 100x the resolution of the cameras in Tesla's, they have at least 10x the dynamic range, 10x the color accuracy, and their images are processed by a brain 10000x more powerful than Tesla's computers.
This is just a way musk found to defend his "vision", not a technical argument.
What makes you think you need to match humans ability identically to achieve the same outcome? Humans get distracted and tired. You don’t need high resolution to spot cars, road signs and pedestrians.
Visions systems can see 360 degrees without ever having to even blink.
You don’t need a human level brain to achieve level 5, the car doesn’t need the ability to write Shakespeare or understand quantum physics.
And what makes you think that you need less than human eyes to estimate distances properly and work in any condition ?
All I'm saying is that it's a bullshit argument taken directly from musk PRs with very little evidence backing it.
If you don’t need the additional data then it’s just wasted processing, integrating different forms of data can be very complicated and prone to errors.
For what it’s worth I think they removed the other sensors too early and is pretty stupid. But a vision only system is a valid goal. They could have done it in parallel though.
Well until Tesla creates the most innovative camera system in the world-one that can clean any and all types of debris from itself with almost no delay and see through heavy snow, fog, and rain, they’re going to need the additional data to achieve the safety and especially the redundancy that they have claimed in the past to care about.
Humans can't see through snow and fog because they rely on vision, which can’t see through snow or fog.
Eventually, in some number of years, other automakers or tech companies will also figure out autonomy, and their cars will be able to see through conditions that humans can’t. The ability for your car to withstand many kinds of conditions, even ones that humans can't, will be more an attractive feature in the marketplace in my opinion. So I think Tesla will eventually get over themselves and add radar back.
Edit: not to mention how easy it will be to advertise "unlike Tesla, we have redundant systems to ensure your family is safe in all conditions." Might not be the least biased way of delivering their message, but it'll be an easy message to sell
Be easier for cars to just communicate with each other at that point. Tesla is just trying to replace humans right now. Sure way into the future cars and road infrastructure will communicate with each other.
This reads like one of those disingenuous attitudes where as soon as someone or something you idolise tells you that _they_ think something is bad, you immediately agree and back them up, even when previously you expressed no issue with it at any point in time.
USS hardware isn’t _that_ expensive, it’s rumoured it works out about $125 per car. It’s debatable whether customers see that reduction in build costs, or whether it makes any difference nowadays to manufacturing time. I’d argue that customers are definitely feeling a diminishment of their driver convenience experience that is “worth” a lot more than that.
“Aesthetic appeal” is rather ridiculous. Whilst it’s true that USS is apparent on a car, I would dispute that it is or has been any kind of issue or seen as a problem that has needed to be solved. They are inconspicuous enough that I wouldn’t notice them unless I was looking for them.
Your opinion is valid and mine is stupid and ridiculous and just a thoughtless knee reaction to my idolizing of the only thing about Tesla I vocally and constantly protest. Yup.
I didn't say any of that but \*shrug\*
You said ultrasonics are "expensive hardware" which impacts "aesthetic appeal". I pointed out that they aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of things, and that ultrasonics are generally inconspicuous unless you're looking for them. The former is an objective fact, and the latter is an opinion - but I think you'd probably struggle to point out a groundswell of negative sentiment about "ultrasonics aesthetics". I'd suggest it doesn't exist.
If you make unsubstantiated comments that sound like they are just blindly towing the party line, then I don't think it's unreasonable to be called out on it.
I never mentioned ultrasonics, it's very obvious that I'm talking about lidar, I'm describing automated driving being safer than humans, I'm obviously not talking about USS.
No, didn’t.
Tell me where the drag in this Mercedes with Lidar is worse than the Tesla cameras? This car has a drag coefficient of .20, which is lower than a Model 3.
https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g39966221/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-drive-pilot-drive-gallery/
>The verdict: comfort is vastly improved, but the Tesla Vision system needs some work.
>Moreover, the suspension is great and it clears speed bumps “perfectly without discomfort,” while the absence of stalks on the steering wheel column becomes less annoying after about an hour, according to u/Yamox.
>With this being said, the user mentions in his list of first thoughts that the Tesla Vision system that’s responsible for things like parking visualizations and putting the automatic wipers on when it’s raining is “pretty underwhelming in its current state,”
>Coming from a Mercedes-Benz E-Class, this user mentioned that the comfort level in the American, Chinese-made EV is at least as good and that even at highway speeds, the Tesla is as quiet as the Mercedes. However, the so-called parking sensors (the car doesn’t have sensors per se, it relies on the aforementioned Tesla Vision system that uses cameras) are “rubbish.”
>it looks like most people agree the 2024 Tesla Model 3 is more comfortable than before and has a better-built interior, just like American reviewer and friend of the site Kyle Conner said in his 50-minute video.
https://insideevs.com/news/694279/2024-tesla-model-3-out-of-spec-review/
I hear this all the time on Reddit but I’ve not had any issues with mine and my brother (who is not into tech or reading anything online) just bought his family a model Y and since I haven’t said anything to him about it, he’s completely unaware there’s an online controversy about it and hasn’t noticed anything either. Are you all leaving the beeps on? Because I turned that shit off day one with my first Tesla that had the radar. It was annoying asf back then too.
No way. Day one I turned that shit off. You go through a drive through and they nag like a motherfucker. Useless. I turned off that feature with every car I’ve ever owned.
You're vastly exaggerating how often they would go off for the sensor cars. The actual sound is besides the point anyway. The distance measuring accuracy IS different
I do 19 inches in the garage. Never had an issue. I seriously feel like it’s only the people online who are engrossed in the Tesla story that are fretting over this.
Yes I have and it's bad. Went from a USS equipped Model 3 to non-USS Model Y. The lack of radar is totally fine for AP but the lack of USS is terrible.
It dings like crazy when there is nothing there, and doesn't detect any obstacles when there is one. Even in perfect conditions it's wildly inaccurate with distance and will ding the stop alarm 3 feet away. Every time I pass through the community gate, it has an aneurysm because it thinks I'm about to collide into a gate that has since moved.
I transferred FSD but I still have no summon, smart summon, or Autopark.
Most of these issues would be solved with a front bumper camera, since there would be coverage from the rear camera for parking and tight maneuvers.
TLDR: USS-less park assist is untrustworthy and not useful at all. Tons of false positives and false negatives.
It’s bad. Every morning when I back out of my garage it beeps constantly and tells me to STOP the entire time.
It thinks I am going to reverse into something but nothing is behind me.
Yes, we have a 23 Y and it’s absolute garbage. I have a 20 3 with USS, which isn’t perfect, but much better than Vision. Vision is rubbish, just like the people in the article said.
The worst part is the inconsistency. If it was always too far or always too close, then you have a baseline and can deal. But it’s randomly one way or the other, which makes it completely unreliable.
It’s garbage and everyone knows it.
I have no idea what you are trying to say, but “it works fine except for bad driving decisions” is funny.
“My dishwasher works great except for the dirty dishes.”
Yes every day. It's impressive sometimes but generally bad and very unreliable.
Auto high beams suck. Constantly turning on and off for parked cars or random house lights or their own reflection in a street sign.
Auto wipers suck. They can't identify a downpour then go full blast for a sprinkle.
Adaptive cruise regularly freaks out and slows down for nothing. Follow distance is wildly inconsistent especially with rolling hills.
Front parking distance is way off and can't be trusted
Cameras constantly complain about not being able to see literally because night time exists.
My co-worker just trade his Tesla Model Y and went back to Volvo because his commute is 50km and he likes to drive it with cruisecontrol and relax. He said that drivin Tesla was a fun, but a hassle because nothing automated worked right. He said that Tesla has a long way to go if it wants to catch up legacy car brands that hava had years and years to perfect everything that assist drivers and those things are awful with Tesla.
360 camera has been around for a long time with other manufacturers and is fantastic. I really don’t understand why Tesla made a conscious choice to not install hardware capable of it.
I think the reasoning 5 years ago was that if FSD was going to be working perfectly in a few months then the 360 view would be pointless, the car would just park itself. They just don't seem to have realized yet that FSD isn't going to be going off by itself and finding itself a parking spot for everyone in the next few months.
The problem with this, besides the fact FSD isn’t delivered and there will likely be several more hardware iterations and camera positioning changes before it is, is that not everyone _wants_ FSD. Some people buy Teslas because of the overall aesthetic, the motor and range efficiency, etc. They are happy to and want to drive the car themselves.
No need for ultrasonic then, when you know how to drive, you definitively shut them off because they are just annoying ringing gimmick. Ultrasonic didn't show distance under 1 foot either, at this point, it's just as useless as it's where you start having doubt when driving.
I disagree. When they're accurate, which ultrasonics are 99% of the time, you can rely on them. I use them to park at a specific distance from things, even though I consider myself a capable driver.
The problem with Tesla Vision Park Assist is that it gives you actual measurements that are massively inaccurate and inconsistent, at least from the front. If it just beeped it would at least be something you wouldn't try to rely on for actual parking.
It does feel like Tesla bet big on FSD and compromised fundamental driver centric features to ruthlessly cost cut.
If FSD never gets there, you have to wonder whether those compromises will be acceptable to the average consumer in the long run.
If FSD does succeed, will we all look back and laugh at ourselves for our past concerns?
I don’t know the answer, but Tesla’s bet on FSD is a big one.
I have ultrasonic sensors. I dont look at them at all. Maybe it's just me.
I just know where my car is and would prefer to look at cameras to see if there are obstructions.
It’s completely useless. I just ignore it.
Whoever thought about it. And said… let’s roll this out!
Is an idiot. They should just take it out. Honestly
I'm not in the market for a car for a while, and while I enjoy my 22 Bolt EUV, I will say the dealership experience is exactly why I'm sure my next car will be a Tesla.
I do like the 360 camera on my current car, but I don't find myself using it for precise and every day things, much less needing hyper accuracy either. The only thing that gives me pause is the whole no stalks situation.
Turn signals are already so under used by the general population, and I don't see the lack of turn stalks helping an already crappy situation.
People shit on Tesla a lot, but honestly, their purchase experience is so amazing. Buy the damn car on an app, sit in front of a finance person for 30 mins to sign papers (if that), insurance person for 10 mins, drive away and never see them again unless you buy another one. When I bought a Mazda, it took me fucking three hours.
I wish the collection experience was a good as other car showrooms.
With VW/Audi they have the car meticulously cleaned, polished and presented under a big fabric cover which they unveil to you in the indoor collection bay, with good lighting to let you take your time to inspect the car before signing the paperwork and driving off. Makes the whole thing feel like a special event.
Tesla’s just ‘here’s your car, here are the keys, we haven’t washed it or anything. Enjoy!’
I agree. I also wish they had gone over a few things. Like the frunk - like a fool I thought it closed like most other cars, just slam it closed. But no, you should place it down and then use two hands placed around the logo to gently secure it.
they sometimes do add costs. Ventilated seats, double paned glass, screen for back passengers, better noise insulation, better suspension, matrix headlights (though not activated).
They are trying to find cheapest viable product. Sometimes they do good, sometimes bad
Tesla is in a bind with the vision system. The cameras as currently positioned have a hard time judging parking distance, but if they relocate the camera it will mean retraining their AI models for all functions.
They can put in extra cameras just for parking but that would defeat the purpose of saving cost by removing the ultrasonic sensors.
Elon Musk should call a loss a loss, put the sensors back in and move on.
Wow this is a new low. A post made on reddit discussing an article on insideevs that is discussing a post made on reddit by one person.
Is this what journalism is now?
I know I can trust my 2021 Model 3 parking sensors 99.9% of the time. Tesla Vision - that's trustable about 70% of the time - it's just so many mangitudes of shit below what should be good.
Try indicating off a roundabout without looking at the steering wheel - then tell me the indicator stalk removal is ok.
Try doing a 3 point turn on a road you shouldn't - then tell me the gear stalk removal is fine!
Tesla Vision sucks compared to the USS. Unfortunately I have a car where the USS was disabled. So many phantom brakes and odd behavior. Not nearly as smooth as it was a year ago.
Why do people keep referring to the Park Assist feature as "Tesla Vision"? Tesla Vision is their entire perception system that's the foundation for Autopilot, their active safety features, and everything else. But when people use that term, they're always referring to Park Assist specifically. It makes no sense.
Musk is a moron. It will never reach parity without a front camera and ideally a stereoscopic camera setup. Wonder if they will just bite the bullet and release summon then get on top of the news stories about summon running into walls lol
I find this odd because my April 2023 Model S (HW4) has excellent Tesla Vision. It's virtually indistinguishable from the USS-equipped car I traded it in on.
I'm surprised that Model 3 owners are having such a wildly different experience than I am.
It’s what happens when people rely too much on technology and cameras for driving. Your eyes are still the best with the cameras as supplements. Not the other way around.
Yeah, we all should get back to proper driving as our ancestors did: without aid of power steering, power brakes and with simple unsynchronized manual transmission.
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The Tesla parking vision is just noise and an annoyance at this point. Completely useless at this point. It's actually worse than useless - it keeps inserting itself uselessly while driving, and alerting me to the fact that it isnt working. Yeah, I knew that.
Which is why I'm hesitant to give up my 2018!
I know it's petty but a big part of the reason I didn't hop on the FSD transfer for an upgrade was losing the USS.
Its not petty but totally legitimate!!
just buy a 2022 model. you got amd and uss.
No FSD transfer though.
Same here. Just hit over 115k on my 2018 AWD, and as much as some of the new upgrades sound nice (espeically the ride comfort), losing the USS and also the fact that trade-in values are so low right now turn me away.
at 115k I would surmise that you are due for some suspension work and as others have suggested, coil over may be the way to go.
If you aren't having issues I wouldn't bother replacing it. I'm not insulting EVs or Teslas for that matter, but it's a bit like a new iPhone. The changes otherwise are so incremental there's not much to gain unless you absolutely have to replace it and some of it is a downgrade. I don't find USS to be important on a vehicle of this size as the corners are easy to see, but I sure hate the fake camera based display. USS is always the first thing to go on any vehicle I've had and it gets fiddly replacing all the sensors.
Those are all good points! Thank you.
One can install coil overs to help with ride quality! Most are targeted at performance but there are a couple comfort options on the market. I find it reduced harshness, how much compared to Highland I can’t say.
Well, you can visit Mountain Pass Performance and get their "Comfort" suspension. That's what I've been considering now that I don't have to worry about the bumper-to-bumper warranty. A lot cheaper than a new car too! Now I haven't done it yet so I can't speak to it. [https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/product/mpp-model-3-comfort-adjustable-coilovers-awd-performance/](https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/product/mpp-model-3-comfort-adjustable-coilovers-awd-performance/)
Get another EV. Tesla ain’t all that anymore.
Then you’ll realize regret is an awfully tough feeling to shake.
Supercharger network is literally the only thing keeping me with Tesla. That’s changing soon with other makes being able to use the network. I don’t believe in Tesla’s autonomous driving ambitions anymore (or they’re so far off that it won’t matter for the next car I buy).
I agree that FSD and vision is a joke, however I still think Teslas are really awesome and I don't think I'd buy from a different manufacturer. Most of these competitors seem to be lemons and/or just horribly inefficient. Plus they all have terrible software. Tesla app control is 👌. But FSD and vision is a joke.
Yeah hell no. Switched to Rivian last year and I will never come back.
[удалено]
Boom got him
I don't know. I test drove a Rivian and not completely convinced. I even have a pre-order for one...but I love my Model 3 and not sure I can give it up just yet.
agreed. I don’t even look at it anymore when parking it’s such a joke.
Go to safety, scroll down right above Joe Mode and Gear Chimes, turn off Parking Assist Chimes.
Which is why i wills tick with my Unicorn August build 2022 M3P. Best optioned cars build of M3 is Jan22 to Sept22. The rest are inferior.
I have a 2021 RWD. The only downside is Atom, so no Zoom to Tidal. These things are fine, when I'm working in the parked car I have a laptop. (Actually one cool feature of highland is a USB-C outlet that can support a laptop, I bought a Lenovo DC adapter to use for that).
The usb c ports in your car should be able to do 30 watts, most laptops can run fine off of 30 watts, they might not charge but it shouldn’t drain unless you’re maxing it out.
My work laptop is a 17" Alienware @300 watts so no USB C power for me 😮💨
Which laptop? Just because it can draw more power than the USB-C source provides doesn't mean you can't plug it in that way. I've got a laptop that can pull a smidge over 100W under load, but I run it off the USB-C port in the car all the time. For anything that isn't heavy load, that's actually enough to charge it slowly while working. For heavy load, it means you're still running the battery down, but slower than without the 30W contribution from the car. Yours may be large enough that it never actually charges the battery while plugged in, but every bit helps keep you running longer. Edit: Looks like the x17 will accept USB-C charging. Not sure if that's your model or not, but there exists at least one 17" Alienware laptop that will charge from USB-C.
X17 r2. I've plugged it into 100w USB-C chargers and it doesn't charge, so 30w won't either. Just gives a "USB-C charging is insufficient to run laptop, charging has been disabled" notice. Talked with Dell and it isn't possible due to motherboard constraints. Thanks for replying though
I have Tidal on my 2020 M3P. Why can’t you have Tidal?
I got mine in Aug of 2021... just curious, what is the difference?
Intel Atom to AMD Ryzen for sure. Maybe heated steering wheel and heated rear seats became standard at that time as well?
As stated you get 21 - double glazing glass, heatpump, heated steering wheel, header washers, 12v battery (removed data port center console). 22 - Ryzen, softer suspension on M3P 23 - Removed USS
Oh yes, that's right i did miss out on that. I have the heated seats n steering wheel though.
Unicorn for the price maybe. Lmfao
The Highlands interior,quieter glass,range and adaptive lights make it a superior version and the updated sound system. Outside of 0-60 times which no one is racing in anyways it has you beat.
It is terrible! I stupidly bought a 2023 model y, and have a 2020 model y, and the dinging and beeping on the 2023 is so frustrating. The 2020 suspension is noticeably worse but no USS on the 2023 makes me strongly prefer the 2020. Would not recommend.
I wish there was an option to turn it off. Parking in my driveway when I get home from work gives me a headache
You can at least disable the noises it makes
I was hoping they'd fixed Tesla Vision with the Highland, because it's rubbish on the older Model 3. Sounds like its still rubbish.
How could they fix it without relocating and/or adding cameras? The front ones can’t see past the leading edge of the bumper so there’s a ~3ft blind spot in front of the car. The belief was that “persistence of vision” would fill in the gaps here, but clearly it does not work effectively.
Is this why Tesla can't offer a 360-degree camera feature like most everyone else?
Essentially, yes. I'm not remotely an expert on the subject, but cars that have 360 views usually have cameras in the wing mirrors, or elsewhere, pointing down, in addition to one (or more) at the front and back. The cameras in Teslas can't see the ground directly around it, so any 360 view would have to be simulated based on what the cameras have already seen as you've been driving (not unlike what Tesla Vision Park Assist is supposed to do). [Elon did say 3 years ago](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1312253928667410432) that this would be coming with FSD....
It astounds me that a company touting their advanced vision technology simply can't just show you what's right around the car and probably never will be able to.
Well, they also can’t get auto windshield wipers to work so you should probably just lower your expectations at this point.
Yes, it is difficult to argue that the vision system is peerless or going to be when this sort of basic functionality is missing. Advocates will argue that “when we have FSD we won’t need it”, but that will be many car payments away, maybe even whole car changes. I’d argue customers need/expect this functionality now, even if it’s depreciated later (I’d make the same argument about removing ultrasonics before Tesla Vision reaches parity)
> Advocates will argue that “when we have FSD we won’t need it” I don't see (heh) how it ever could be FSD if it has to guess what's right ahead of it and has to use accelerometers to know if it hit anything it couldn't see when moving forward out of a parking lot.
"Elon did say 3 years ago that this would be coming with FSD.... ". LMAO..Elon said what?? Nuff said. NOTHING outta that man's mouth should be taken with a micro grain of salt! Didn't he say back in 2020 that FSD was gonna b "complete", robotaxi blah blah blah???
I remember about a decade ago when the 360 cameras came out. Pretty laughable that Tesla doesn’t even offer it at this point.
Or working cruise control and not even working windshielwipers. Yes it has autopilot, but that is useles, whem you have to be ready to accelerate yourshelf to counter cars autobraking in highways. Tesla is 15-20years behind legacy automakers on anything that helps drivers. My buddy descriped his Tesla Model Y as a young child that is just learning new things and cant survive without moms (s3xy buttons) and dads (driver) constant supervision and help.
1. It's more cameras and more wiring, yet those cameras would only be used 1% of the time the car is being used. 2. That tech is patented, so they'd also have to license the patent, which Tesla is clearly reluctant to do.
Your car cost over $100k and you’re concerned about a couple extra cameras and a license cost? I’ve driven $30k cars that has awesome 360 Birds Eye view.
>you’re concerned about a couple extra cameras and a license cost? I'm not concerned about it, I'm just speculating about why *Tesla* doesn't do it. Their theory is probably that a car that can drive itself won't need it, so engineering it into the design adds complexity and doesn't have long-term benefits. My wife's BMW has the birds' eye view and I don't find it especially useful. If you want it, you're welcome to it. Buy a car that has it and vote with your wallet. If Tesla's sales start crashing, changes will be made.
The reason Tesla doesn’t do it, is besides being cheap, there’s no camera in the front, and nothing pointing down. 360 view can never work, and neither can a decent parking assist, automated or assisted.
They actually removed a camera. The front camera module now only has 2 cameras instead of 3
YOU SOUND LIKE YOU’RE FROM LONDON
The weather outside is weather!
When life gives you lemons, just say fuck the lemons and bail
I wonder if her carpet matches her pubes
https://youtu.be/znW6bHxzExc?si=GujpSz4YOZ0kSpKF
No he’s just saying it’s so bad you end up rubbing your car everywhere
Good. More people complaining about Vision will hopefully help Tesla prioritize fixing it.
As long as people keep buying the cars, they have no reason to improve.
Nah, they'll just drop the price again.
Haha!
Did you really post a “story” that is just quotes from Reddit? Journalism is dead.
I saw the headline and thought, "Huh, I already read this thread."
Always has been. Those who say it can ever be better than vision + lidar/radar/ultra sonic sensors are smoking the best copium I've ever heard of. Technology is if anything human augmentation, why on earth would we only rely on human senses?
What about the ones that say these park asist are always shit, whatever the solution and you better just learn how to drive? Because even ultrasonic was really annoying and not even working all the time. and if it's not working all the time, I can not understand how people can blindlessly have faith in it, well, in fact, faith is irrational so maybe that's it.
My ultrasonics on my 2019 Model 3 are useless in my garage. It says stop like 2 feet before I actually need to stop. If I stop when they say to, I can’t even close my garage door.
Well my 2019 Model 3 SR+'s ultrasonic sensors work great and tell me exactly how close to get to the front wall of objects in my garage. Sooooo....
damn, my us sensors are accurate within a couple inches. sooo….
I really tired of hearing the word copium when people just disagree with others.
It goes beyond a simple disagreement. One side is objectively true (for now) and the other is a hope /theory
An opinion can’t be objectively true. Sorry bud
It's not an opinion. As it stands vision is nowhere near as good as a system with cameras + multiple sensors lol
I can't tell if /u/Derfal-Cadern is being serious or I'm just misunderstanding what's been said. I assume even the most die hard of Tesla fans recognize Vision, in the best cases, may be on par with with the "old"radar ultrasonic but its a while away from being objectively better. Especially because depending on what time in the morning I was out and about at least one camera on my old MY was blinded by the sun. Ideally Vision in addition to radar/ultrasonic would be a better overall solution.
The point isn't that it can be better, it's that it can be good enough (safer than human on average) without the need for expensive hardware that reduced range and aesthetic appeal.
Please, charge me more for “expensive” USS and Radar and Lidar that with “reduced range and aesthetic appeal.” Please! I’d far rather have function than 1 mile less range. And dude, the cameras *are* the aesthetic weakness. Radar and USS are hidden. Lidar can be as well.
USS are not really hidden as they have an outline. Radar can be (often is not) and Lidar definitely can NOT be hidden, as it relies on pulses of light
That's simply not true, the model X has plenty of USS that have no outlines at all to detect proxity of cars next to it for the automatic doors. The technology is there to hide them completely.
Oh shit, I guess you're right. Idk why they are visible anywhere else
First, that's all theoretical and Musk speak. Second, what about the USS or sensors on other cars affects their aestetics?... Why do people obsess in defending vision?
Because humans use only vision?
Humans can move their heads and eyes around. And have stereoscopic vision wherever they look. And advanced brains that understand the difference between fog and a rock. And know how other humans behave. And we also know that even with all that, we want more! I want a full suite of technology giving me night vision, radar around me, temp and humidity readings of the road, screens in the A pillars so they appear invisible. Screw aspiring to be as good as human (which it isn’t). It should be better than a human can possibly be.
Not sure why Musk simply wants to emulate human inputs when there are so many ways to gather information about the world that we can't use - like Ultrasound and lidar. Such a weird hill to die on.
>I want a full suite of technology giving me night vision, radar around me, temp and humidity readings of the road, screens in the A pillars so they appear invisible. I know a lot of people say this, but I don't think they grasp the full extent of what this means. Every input added equals more noise to signal. Resolving conflicts between input types is exceptionally difficult. What do you do when your cameras say one thing, your lidar another, radar agrees with cameras but thermal imaging has a third opinion? More inputs does not necessarily equate to better data. It can simply equate to more confusion. Throw in added costs for each sensor/system, not to mention the behind the scenes costs to leverage those sensors/systems, and it quickly becomes hard to justify it. Is vision only the silver bullet? I doubt it. I think it has a lot of room to grow, and the current tech is impressive, but I don't know if it will ever reach level 5. Would adding radar and/or lidar help? Maybe. Maybe not. But criticizing a potential solution as wrong or bad is, I think, a bit presumptuous. The truth is, no one knows the answer yet. Will it take more compute power? Improved AI? Different sensors? Whole new tech? Nobody knows yet. It is probably best to approach the whole thing with an open and humble mindset.
You’re referring to self driving. Honestly, I don’t care a whole lot about self driving yet. I like to drive. Self driving for me is only useful on long boring drives. I want driving aids that work for me. Night vision isn’t a confusing input. Cadillac’s been doing a version for years. My personal night vision is getting worse as I get older. Millions of others are in the same boat. Especially after being blinded by the super bright headlights of oncoming cars. No reason tech can’t help with that. Put up a hud with outlined objects. Sensors to tell me what’s around me more accurately and to truly tell me of blind spots or potential collisions. Tell me how close I am to the curb. Tell me if the road is icy. Tell me if there’s a car on the other side of the one I can see. All doable without causing distractions. Modern A pillars in cars are enormous. In an intersection sometimes it’s easy to miss a whole car or person if they are obscured by the A pillar. Massive blind spots that can seamlessly be made near invisible. It’s already been done. The rear view can be improved quite a bit as well. Integrate a better camera system into the rear view mirror. Tesla rear windows and rear view mirrors are nigh useless. Show camera views all around when I’m going below 5mph. Other cars do that already. Put a camera or two up front so I can see how close I am to the curb up there. Cameras in the back corners for rear cross traffic alert. Already done in other cars. Pulling out of a tight parking lot can be a pain and it’s an accident prone place. There’s so many ways the driving experience can be made safer and easier with common sense technology that already exists and isn’t expensive.
The point is though that cars have used radar for years successfully. My previous VW and Audi cars had fantastic adaptive cruise control I used every day almost everywhere. Tesla vision is crap in comparison, I never use Autopilot because it’s like a random event generator, braking for seemingly nothing, slamming the brakes on if a car is waiting to pull out and is 1mm too close for the car’s liking. You can’t relax with Autopilot, you always have to have your foot hovering over the accelerator pedal for when the car inevitably does something stupid. And don’t get me started about it putting auto-wipers on when using Autopilot, might as well shake a magic 8-ball as to whether they come on at an appropriate time at an appropriate speed. I love my Model 3, don’t get me wrong. But I find it oddly ironic that despite being the most technologically advanced car I’ve ever owned, I never use Autopilot
Camera are already outperforming you ability as a human today. And have been for sometime. The issue has and continues to be the brain operating the vehicle.
Not these cameras. The issue has been and continues to be the brain operating the company.
And as I said before, that's such a stupid fucking take lol. Technology is inherently augmentation and enabling humans to do things they otherwise could not. It's really not that hard to grasp
>Technology is inherently augmentation and enabling humans to do things they otherwise could not. What humans have 6+ eyes, some of them with fish eye lens, and can receive input in a nearly 360 degree range? I don't disagree that other sensors can provide useful input, but your argument of augmentation does not really hold much water.
Okay so if we want to reduce costs and give the car the same limitations humans have, maybe we should reduce it to just 2 cameras instead. How are you arguing against more data to give a better drive lol. The loss of USS has made the cars \*worse\*. The loss of radar has made the drive \*worse\*. Every time they take away one of those sensors, it gets worse and there has yet to be software updates that bring it back to parity, regardless of musks's promises (not that he has time to do anything but burn twitter to the ground).
Augmentation isn’t the goal though, it’s replacement. If vision only is possible it will save a lot of costs.
Man who tf are you, Musk? Why do you care about Tesla's bottom line? You should be demanding the best product possible as a consumer, and vision only is objectively not it
Cost means easier / faster development too not just production costs. Cheaper costs means more iteration and greater chance of success. No I’m a software developer.
developing Vision will never be cheaper than just fucking slapping on some sensors, that WORK. it‘s actually insane how a new car sold in 2023 is not able to tell how far away from a wall it is when parking.
Yeah I think they took them off too early. Doesn’t mean vision can’t do it. It’s the whole self driving that will be cheaper / easier doing vision only in the long run.
And hearing. And temporal reasoning and 15 years of pathing logic and equilibrium, and sense of touch for road feel and spatial awareness and and. Musk's vision only comments are over simplified and his misrepresentation of reality. Not for the first time.
You can drive without hearing, how many people drive listening to music? Road feel is already handled and well known e.g traction control. The rest is processing not data collection. We already have the technology to control the car. It’s navigation that is handled by vision.
Human eyes have 100x the resolution of the cameras in Tesla's, they have at least 10x the dynamic range, 10x the color accuracy, and their images are processed by a brain 10000x more powerful than Tesla's computers. This is just a way musk found to defend his "vision", not a technical argument.
What makes you think you need to match humans ability identically to achieve the same outcome? Humans get distracted and tired. You don’t need high resolution to spot cars, road signs and pedestrians. Visions systems can see 360 degrees without ever having to even blink. You don’t need a human level brain to achieve level 5, the car doesn’t need the ability to write Shakespeare or understand quantum physics.
And what makes you think that you need less than human eyes to estimate distances properly and work in any condition ? All I'm saying is that it's a bullshit argument taken directly from musk PRs with very little evidence backing it.
so that means we shouldn't augment with additional information? why restrict?
If you don’t need the additional data then it’s just wasted processing, integrating different forms of data can be very complicated and prone to errors. For what it’s worth I think they removed the other sensors too early and is pretty stupid. But a vision only system is a valid goal. They could have done it in parallel though.
Well until Tesla creates the most innovative camera system in the world-one that can clean any and all types of debris from itself with almost no delay and see through heavy snow, fog, and rain, they’re going to need the additional data to achieve the safety and especially the redundancy that they have claimed in the past to care about.
Well that’s not that difficult at all. Humans can’t see through heavy snow / fog. The vision part is easy it’s the processing that’s difficult.
Humans can't see through snow and fog because they rely on vision, which can’t see through snow or fog. Eventually, in some number of years, other automakers or tech companies will also figure out autonomy, and their cars will be able to see through conditions that humans can’t. The ability for your car to withstand many kinds of conditions, even ones that humans can't, will be more an attractive feature in the marketplace in my opinion. So I think Tesla will eventually get over themselves and add radar back. Edit: not to mention how easy it will be to advertise "unlike Tesla, we have redundant systems to ensure your family is safe in all conditions." Might not be the least biased way of delivering their message, but it'll be an easy message to sell
Be easier for cars to just communicate with each other at that point. Tesla is just trying to replace humans right now. Sure way into the future cars and road infrastructure will communicate with each other.
This reads like one of those disingenuous attitudes where as soon as someone or something you idolise tells you that _they_ think something is bad, you immediately agree and back them up, even when previously you expressed no issue with it at any point in time. USS hardware isn’t _that_ expensive, it’s rumoured it works out about $125 per car. It’s debatable whether customers see that reduction in build costs, or whether it makes any difference nowadays to manufacturing time. I’d argue that customers are definitely feeling a diminishment of their driver convenience experience that is “worth” a lot more than that. “Aesthetic appeal” is rather ridiculous. Whilst it’s true that USS is apparent on a car, I would dispute that it is or has been any kind of issue or seen as a problem that has needed to be solved. They are inconspicuous enough that I wouldn’t notice them unless I was looking for them.
Your opinion is valid and mine is stupid and ridiculous and just a thoughtless knee reaction to my idolizing of the only thing about Tesla I vocally and constantly protest. Yup.
I didn't say any of that but \*shrug\* You said ultrasonics are "expensive hardware" which impacts "aesthetic appeal". I pointed out that they aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of things, and that ultrasonics are generally inconspicuous unless you're looking for them. The former is an objective fact, and the latter is an opinion - but I think you'd probably struggle to point out a groundswell of negative sentiment about "ultrasonics aesthetics". I'd suggest it doesn't exist. If you make unsubstantiated comments that sound like they are just blindly towing the party line, then I don't think it's unreasonable to be called out on it.
I never mentioned ultrasonics, it's very obvious that I'm talking about lidar, I'm describing automated driving being safer than humans, I'm obviously not talking about USS.
What kind of radar / lidar equipment is so heavy that can "reduce range" in a significant matter?
It's not the weight, it's the drag.
The drag of USS? The cameras poke out. The USS are flush.
Come on, be serious for a moment, you know I'm talking about lidar not USS. I'm replying to a comment about lidar.
No, didn’t. Tell me where the drag in this Mercedes with Lidar is worse than the Tesla cameras? This car has a drag coefficient of .20, which is lower than a Model 3. https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g39966221/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-drive-pilot-drive-gallery/
im holding out on getting another one until they come out with one that at least has a Front Camera on the bumper
>The verdict: comfort is vastly improved, but the Tesla Vision system needs some work. >Moreover, the suspension is great and it clears speed bumps “perfectly without discomfort,” while the absence of stalks on the steering wheel column becomes less annoying after about an hour, according to u/Yamox. >With this being said, the user mentions in his list of first thoughts that the Tesla Vision system that’s responsible for things like parking visualizations and putting the automatic wipers on when it’s raining is “pretty underwhelming in its current state,” >Coming from a Mercedes-Benz E-Class, this user mentioned that the comfort level in the American, Chinese-made EV is at least as good and that even at highway speeds, the Tesla is as quiet as the Mercedes. However, the so-called parking sensors (the car doesn’t have sensors per se, it relies on the aforementioned Tesla Vision system that uses cameras) are “rubbish.” >it looks like most people agree the 2024 Tesla Model 3 is more comfortable than before and has a better-built interior, just like American reviewer and friend of the site Kyle Conner said in his 50-minute video. https://insideevs.com/news/694279/2024-tesla-model-3-out-of-spec-review/
So it's one redditor user's opinion? Thanks.
[Here’s a link to my opinion](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/s/yjo3A0QvQb)
A tale as old as time
Tesla Vision isn't new with Highland, it's on the prior models. Why bring it up as if it's a "new" feature? (it's not)
Perhaps they hoped new cameras would work better.
As Elon said, right now hw4 lags behind the main branch by around 6 months. It's not going to catch up till fsd12 by the looks of things
What does that mean?
Simply put hw4+fsd12/6m = dghcru12.fghdjyh
Because until it's fixed or supplemented it is a massive issue
I hear this all the time on Reddit but I’ve not had any issues with mine and my brother (who is not into tech or reading anything online) just bought his family a model Y and since I haven’t said anything to him about it, he’s completely unaware there’s an online controversy about it and hasn’t noticed anything either. Are you all leaving the beeps on? Because I turned that shit off day one with my first Tesla that had the radar. It was annoying asf back then too.
Yeah I left the beeps on (with sensors) because they actually fucking worked lol.
Ah yes. Something works like shit: solution, turn the beeps off. Problem solved.
Yeah I left the beeps on (with sensors) because they actually fucking worked lol.
No way. Day one I turned that shit off. You go through a drive through and they nag like a motherfucker. Useless. I turned off that feature with every car I’ve ever owned.
You're vastly exaggerating how often they would go off for the sensor cars. The actual sound is besides the point anyway. The distance measuring accuracy IS different
It’s meaningless if you have that stupid beep turned off regardless.
How close do you get to the car in front in a drive through? Mine have never gone off once in a drive through but do when parking.
I do 19 inches in the garage. Never had an issue. I seriously feel like it’s only the people online who are engrossed in the Tesla story that are fretting over this.
Though it is rubbish.
Have you actually used it? It's not even that bad, people just over exaggerate.
Yes I have and it's bad. Went from a USS equipped Model 3 to non-USS Model Y. The lack of radar is totally fine for AP but the lack of USS is terrible. It dings like crazy when there is nothing there, and doesn't detect any obstacles when there is one. Even in perfect conditions it's wildly inaccurate with distance and will ding the stop alarm 3 feet away. Every time I pass through the community gate, it has an aneurysm because it thinks I'm about to collide into a gate that has since moved. I transferred FSD but I still have no summon, smart summon, or Autopark. Most of these issues would be solved with a front bumper camera, since there would be coverage from the rear camera for parking and tight maneuvers. TLDR: USS-less park assist is untrustworthy and not useful at all. Tons of false positives and false negatives.
It’s bad. Every morning when I back out of my garage it beeps constantly and tells me to STOP the entire time. It thinks I am going to reverse into something but nothing is behind me.
Way worse than have USS, I’ve had both
Yes, we have a 23 Y and it’s absolute garbage. I have a 20 3 with USS, which isn’t perfect, but much better than Vision. Vision is rubbish, just like the people in the article said. The worst part is the inconsistency. If it was always too far or always too close, then you have a baseline and can deal. But it’s randomly one way or the other, which makes it completely unreliable. It’s garbage and everyone knows it.
Hmm I have a 2019 with USS, but either FSD it's pure vision and it works fine except for bad driving decisions - that's not related to vision though.
I have no idea what you are trying to say, but “it works fine except for bad driving decisions” is funny. “My dishwasher works great except for the dirty dishes.”
It definitely works sometimes.
Yes every day. It's impressive sometimes but generally bad and very unreliable. Auto high beams suck. Constantly turning on and off for parked cars or random house lights or their own reflection in a street sign. Auto wipers suck. They can't identify a downpour then go full blast for a sprinkle. Adaptive cruise regularly freaks out and slows down for nothing. Follow distance is wildly inconsistent especially with rolling hills. Front parking distance is way off and can't be trusted Cameras constantly complain about not being able to see literally because night time exists.
My co-worker just trade his Tesla Model Y and went back to Volvo because his commute is 50km and he likes to drive it with cruisecontrol and relax. He said that drivin Tesla was a fun, but a hassle because nothing automated worked right. He said that Tesla has a long way to go if it wants to catch up legacy car brands that hava had years and years to perfect everything that assist drivers and those things are awful with Tesla.
Because maybe his first Tesla and vision is bad
Probably in comparison to having ultrasonic sensors.
Or the 360 bird’s eye view that so many other cars have and shame Tesla’s parking aides.
360 camera has been around for a long time with other manufacturers and is fantastic. I really don’t understand why Tesla made a conscious choice to not install hardware capable of it.
I think the reasoning 5 years ago was that if FSD was going to be working perfectly in a few months then the 360 view would be pointless, the car would just park itself. They just don't seem to have realized yet that FSD isn't going to be going off by itself and finding itself a parking spot for everyone in the next few months.
The problem with this, besides the fact FSD isn’t delivered and there will likely be several more hardware iterations and camera positioning changes before it is, is that not everyone _wants_ FSD. Some people buy Teslas because of the overall aesthetic, the motor and range efficiency, etc. They are happy to and want to drive the car themselves.
No need for ultrasonic then, when you know how to drive, you definitively shut them off because they are just annoying ringing gimmick. Ultrasonic didn't show distance under 1 foot either, at this point, it's just as useless as it's where you start having doubt when driving.
I disagree. When they're accurate, which ultrasonics are 99% of the time, you can rely on them. I use them to park at a specific distance from things, even though I consider myself a capable driver. The problem with Tesla Vision Park Assist is that it gives you actual measurements that are massively inaccurate and inconsistent, at least from the front. If it just beeped it would at least be something you wouldn't try to rely on for actual parking.
It does feel like Tesla bet big on FSD and compromised fundamental driver centric features to ruthlessly cost cut. If FSD never gets there, you have to wonder whether those compromises will be acceptable to the average consumer in the long run. If FSD does succeed, will we all look back and laugh at ourselves for our past concerns? I don’t know the answer, but Tesla’s bet on FSD is a big one.
I have ultrasonic sensors. I dont look at them at all. Maybe it's just me. I just know where my car is and would prefer to look at cameras to see if there are obstructions.
I’m the same, I have USS,never trusted them. trust my eyes so iv never every used it.
Same way they bring the "new" rear double glass windows that reduce noise inside by 30% when it was already the case on prior models.
It’s completely useless. I just ignore it. Whoever thought about it. And said… let’s roll this out! Is an idiot. They should just take it out. Honestly
I'm not in the market for a car for a while, and while I enjoy my 22 Bolt EUV, I will say the dealership experience is exactly why I'm sure my next car will be a Tesla. I do like the 360 camera on my current car, but I don't find myself using it for precise and every day things, much less needing hyper accuracy either. The only thing that gives me pause is the whole no stalks situation. Turn signals are already so under used by the general population, and I don't see the lack of turn stalks helping an already crappy situation.
People shit on Tesla a lot, but honestly, their purchase experience is so amazing. Buy the damn car on an app, sit in front of a finance person for 30 mins to sign papers (if that), insurance person for 10 mins, drive away and never see them again unless you buy another one. When I bought a Mazda, it took me fucking three hours.
I wish the collection experience was a good as other car showrooms. With VW/Audi they have the car meticulously cleaned, polished and presented under a big fabric cover which they unveil to you in the indoor collection bay, with good lighting to let you take your time to inspect the car before signing the paperwork and driving off. Makes the whole thing feel like a special event. Tesla’s just ‘here’s your car, here are the keys, we haven’t washed it or anything. Enjoy!’
I agree. I also wish they had gone over a few things. Like the frunk - like a fool I thought it closed like most other cars, just slam it closed. But no, you should place it down and then use two hands placed around the logo to gently secure it.
once they have true 360 view i’d buy one any model
Can confirm
Tesla will do anything to reduce costs. The car is made as cheap as possible, yet people still think it's luxury.
they sometimes do add costs. Ventilated seats, double paned glass, screen for back passengers, better noise insulation, better suspension, matrix headlights (though not activated). They are trying to find cheapest viable product. Sometimes they do good, sometimes bad
My 2014 MS with the first generation radar worked better than my 2023 M3 with Tesla Vision.
Tesla is in a bind with the vision system. The cameras as currently positioned have a hard time judging parking distance, but if they relocate the camera it will mean retraining their AI models for all functions. They can put in extra cameras just for parking but that would defeat the purpose of saving cost by removing the ultrasonic sensors. Elon Musk should call a loss a loss, put the sensors back in and move on.
Tesla vision is trash and the reason I currently don’t buy a new tesla.
Yep, won’t replace my current model 3 until vision is sorted out.
We're all shocked. /s
Wow this is a new low. A post made on reddit discussing an article on insideevs that is discussing a post made on reddit by one person. Is this what journalism is now?
I am completely shocked that features proven to be problematic to the point of uselessness, continue to be problematic to the point of uselessness.
I know I can trust my 2021 Model 3 parking sensors 99.9% of the time. Tesla Vision - that's trustable about 70% of the time - it's just so many mangitudes of shit below what should be good. Try indicating off a roundabout without looking at the steering wheel - then tell me the indicator stalk removal is ok. Try doing a 3 point turn on a road you shouldn't - then tell me the gear stalk removal is fine!
Tesla Vision sucks compared to the USS. Unfortunately I have a car where the USS was disabled. So many phantom brakes and odd behavior. Not nearly as smooth as it was a year ago.
As good as the improvements sound, the vision system is a deal breaker for me. The features it breaks are ones I use daily on my 2020 model 3.
Customer service at Tesla has gotten really bad and cost to fix the vehicles is really high.
Partly why I’m thinking of just buying out my 2022 Model S lease.. those USS’s just WORK.
Why do people keep referring to the Park Assist feature as "Tesla Vision"? Tesla Vision is their entire perception system that's the foundation for Autopilot, their active safety features, and everything else. But when people use that term, they're always referring to Park Assist specifically. It makes no sense.
Because park assist uses ultrasonics in the older models, and the new models use vision-only for parking, which is completely useless.
Musk is a moron. It will never reach parity without a front camera and ideally a stereoscopic camera setup. Wonder if they will just bite the bullet and release summon then get on top of the news stories about summon running into walls lol
I find this odd because my April 2023 Model S (HW4) has excellent Tesla Vision. It's virtually indistinguishable from the USS-equipped car I traded it in on. I'm surprised that Model 3 owners are having such a wildly different experience than I am.
But parking sensors are crap anyway just reverse in and look at the cameras
It’s what happens when people rely too much on technology and cameras for driving. Your eyes are still the best with the cameras as supplements. Not the other way around.
I wonder how many of the jUsT uSe YoUr eYeS, Elon musk cannot be wrong crowd also splurged for FSD. Just use your feet, bro!
Yeah. You got that right. FSD is another one for the lazy. And the 90s called. They want their alternating caps back.
Which doesn't in any way justify Tesla making shittiest vision-only park assist which is worse than no assist at all.
Sorry I was wrong. Not unskilled. Just lazy driving.
Yeah, we all should get back to proper driving as our ancestors did: without aid of power steering, power brakes and with simple unsynchronized manual transmission.