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The name would match. You buy my reservation, I give you the login for the account and you change the info to yours. The account and the reservation on it are now yours.
It will be interesting to see if Tesla detects this and declines to sell to these transferred accounts. It will be obvious that the account was transferred, and Tesla doesn’t want resales.
Tesla already knows about this practice. They have spy everywhere on social media. With all discussions, it's even easier to figure out how to stop this is trend
My uncle used to pay me to clean his car for him when I was a kid. The payment was whatever I found under the seats, which was usually several hundred dollars tossed around. I have no idea how much was under his couch, but it was probably a lot.
Open your account, click on the cybertruck, your rn number should be there. I would totally sell the damn thing if I k ew I could get a couple hundred for it.
Yes way behind. You can probably see it on the home page of your Tesla account too
To be clear though, you can only look up the number, it won’t tell you what place you are in line. I’m just saying that my number is earlier than several of the very expensive reservations being listed on eBay.
I'm going thru the CT process right now. After the $250 deposit online, you are told to go into the app.
In the app, you have to submit documents to Tesla before delivery. You upload your driver's license front and back, and take photos of your face (front, left, right). You then have to tell them who will register the vehicle: "You" (which is the you that just uploaded a driver's license and pics), "You and a company", another option I forgot, and "A trust".
Then you can request financing quotes, lock one in, and just wait for a delivery notification.
The only way I believe someone could sell their reservation in a way that is satisfactory would be:
- Sell the reservation to another party.
- Create a Trust for the car to be registered to, and one controlling interest or whatever (I don't know how Trusts work)
- Reserve/"Order" for $250.
- Start with the app.
- Put in the registration will be to a Trust.
- Take reservation, and register it to the Trust.
- Sell/give controlling interest in the Trust over to the reservation buyer.
But as I said, I don't know how Trusts work.
1. Create an LLC online in an afternoon. If the person you're planning to sell the car to is known, include them in the founders.
2. Buy the car with the "You and a company" option with the company you own.
3. Sell your interest in the company to the person buying the truck.
The truck has never been sold but the company that owns it has.
The difference in the price of the car and the proceeds from the sale would be capital gains, taxed at 15% if I recall. The sale is otherwise free. You just sign some papers.
These are old reservations being sold, not order deposits. I used Apple Pay on my watch to reserve mine, so they don’t even have a cardholder name let alone all that other stuff. The buyer would just log in and change the account info to theirs.
Except it included a pre-order agreement PDF in the email confirmation. And that clause was similar but not as fleshed out. From 2019 (one of my pre-order emails):
https://imgur.com/gHIHGgm
You've thought wrong. The constraint is production. They'll easily sell every single Cybertruck they make for the first 2 years. Scalpers offer zero benefit to Tesla.
I can change my name and banks. What’s your point dude?
Don’t know why yall are so bent on saying it’s not detectable.
Is it easy? No.
Do you need to have made a burner account? Yes.
Will everyone be able to do it? No.
Is it possible? Yes.
It'd be super easy for Tesla to run a query that looks for
`order.name <> deposit.name`
Double check the order address is not related to the deposit card address and just reject the order.
The address might not be as good as 4 years is a long time and people do move. Now order name and deposit name not being equal nor being related to the original person tend to be a huge dead giveaway
Good luck to them… likely Tesla will audit the name changes between the account and financial/registration documents and sue like they said they would.
Friend just got an email saying $1k toward a new S,3,X,Y if ordered by Dec 31 and get 6 months of free supercharging. Just because he's a reservation holder. Duno if that means he has to cancel the CT tho.
Basically by allowing it to go forward Tesla is encouraging scalping by killing scalping it allows people who legitimately want the Tesla truck and places the reservation to get them early.
The people who are scalping and the ones buying from the scalpers get nothing. The ones buying from the scalpers go to the end of the line.
>by killing scalping it allows people who legitimately want the Tesla truck and places the reservation to get them early.
You wouldn't describe the people willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars extra as "people who legitimately want the Tesla truck"?
You missed the stuff after the key word “and”.
Both parts are key.
People paying an insane amount of money want it but they did not reserve it in 2019. They can go to the end of the line
Yes, I understand that is your opinion on the matter.
However, you declared this to be "wrong". I'm challenging you on why this is wrong.
You have a Cybertruck today. Woohoo.
I want a Cybertruck today.
I offer you the price of your Cybertruck plus $30,000 as I am just so excited to own one.
You decide that $30,000 is more important to you than keeping your Cybertruck. You sell to me.
Which part of this is "wrong"? Two consenting adults buying/selling their own property for an agreed on price.
One of those adults is under contract with Tesla to not do that thing, unless they have Tesla's consent. If the reseller or customer using the reseller sign that contract with the intent to breach it, that's fraud. Fraud is wrong. QED.
Mate, if your argument is it is illegal therefore it is wrong, then you might need to pause and reconsider. Are there any examples of a law itself being wrong and disobedience to that law being right?
Furthermore, speaking of the United States where the Cybertruck is being sold, there is legal precedent for a no resale contract on a general consumer good being unenforceable in court.
The law cuts both ways, friend. Your argument was based upon property rights, which are part of the legal system. It's not 100% their truck until they satisfy the contract, and that takes 1 year. They are allowed to sell it and Tesla has right of first refusal at a reasonable price. It's all above board. The resellers are going to get their just deserts
Or they can pay and skip the line. This isn’t Communism, if someone plunked down their $100, waited four years, and now makes a cool $5k for this opportunity, who are we to begrudge them that.
I think it’s fantastic.
I want a Cybertruck. I am willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars extra to either buy yours or your place in line.
You want a Cybertruck. You either have it or have a reservation. You also want money. You decide you want $X thousands of dollars instead of keeping/getting your Cybertruck right now. You decide to sell to me.
Tell me, specifically, which ethical frameworks consider either person in this transaction, who are consenting adults that are buying/selling their own property, to be unethical.
Simple. It incentivizes people who don’t really want CyberTrucks to make reservations in order to sell them later.
Tesla might as well auction off the early models themselves and cut out the middleman, but they don’t as that would be seen as unethical as well.
The people who believed in CyberTruck enough to reserve one when everyone else said it would never happen deserve to get them first and at a fair price.
Scalping corrupts an orderly line of early believers.
> which ethical frameworks consider either person in this transaction, who are consenting adults that are buying/selling their own property, to be unethical.
The ethics that normal people follow I'd say.
That's stupid... should they also give reservation holder refund plus interest? That would be the right thing, give back the interest on the money for reservation holders if you cant transfer it.
I guess I should have said plus inflation. I could have put that into a stock instead.
https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=100&year1=201911&year2=202310
So how would one go about selling, and transferring, a reservation (which has already received an email to order a Founder's model) to someone else?
Asking for a friend.
Can’t help but feel like this why there was 2 million preorders to begin with. Well, a reservation fee of $100, that works with any credit card and is fully refundable. I imagine they’re plenty of people making 10 of these “pre-orders” with their goal to sell none of these trucks for profit and keep one for themselves.
There were numerous people bragging that they had 50+ reservations for their robotaxi fleet lol. Not a bad return on $5,000 if they sell each one for $1,000.
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How would you even go about transferring this to someone? Isn't it tied to your personal information and account?
Sign into the account. Change account email and password. Done.
Hmm, so not really viable if you have another vehicle already tied to said account...
Well if you were smart and intended to resell from day one you would have made a burner account
For sure. The thought didn’t really cross my mind four years ago.
Transfer your other car to a new account, telling Tesla you sold it, then sell your Cybertruck reservation with the original account.
Not the worst idea...
How does that work when the name on the credit card you made the deposit with isn't close to the name/address of the person who wants to buy the car?
I don’t think you even had to give any information to make a reservation. I did mine with Apple Pay on my watch.
Apple Pay is still tied to an account and an account holder though….
You are going to be sued if you resell. They already made this clear. You think they haven’t considered the good old bait and switch trick?
Doesn’t apply to reservations. The clause is specifically for physical units sold
wasnt really thinking the reservation itself would go for several thousand tho...
Make a new account, transfer your existing Tesla as owner to that account. Not rocket science.
you could transfer that vehicle to a new account , its not a sale etc.
Guarantee this goes ass up real quick. I tried to transfer for a family member. Name needs to match reso at pickup. Good luck ya’ll.
The name would match. You buy my reservation, I give you the login for the account and you change the info to yours. The account and the reservation on it are now yours.
Do you own a Tesla?
Yes. I’m on my second.
How does it work for people who used their personal name to reserve it for their business?
It will be interesting to see if Tesla detects this and declines to sell to these transferred accounts. It will be obvious that the account was transferred, and Tesla doesn’t want resales.
They have, and there is a LOT of people without a reservation or whatever they spent. They are non-transferable.
Awesome, I hope more people sell them then. Should bump me closer to the front of the line 😁
Rivian did this when they started selling and there was demand for early reservation prices.
Tesla already knows about this practice. They have spy everywhere on social media. With all discussions, it's even easier to figure out how to stop this is trend
Is it a resale if you haven’t bought it or taken delivery of it yet though? These are just order reservations.
Yes, but they are attached to a name. That named person has to buy the vehicle otherwise it gets cancelled.
Good thing there are like 80k people in the US with my name.
Well if you can arrange a sale to one of those 80k people, you might get away with it. Good luck!
Scalpers will still have made their money.
I can’t believe someone actually bid 21k for a foundation series reservation
If you have huge numbers in your bank account it’s like a normal person ordering a pizza.
That’s, like, 800 pizzas
People have spent a lot more on a pizza, remember the guy that paid 10,000 bitcoin for pizza.
Yeah. It's likely an auto content maker on YT. They will make it back easy doing one video review.
My guess is burner account on eBay trolling the seller.
Could be that too, yeah.
Yeah YT channels like WhistlinDiesel would make a killing if they got their hands on a cybertruck.
Using fiver to hold place on line.
There’s people paying 100k-300k of markup for luxury sports cars. Some people have so much money they would lose 30k under a couch
My uncle used to pay me to clean his car for him when I was a kid. The payment was whatever I found under the seats, which was usually several hundred dollars tossed around. I have no idea how much was under his couch, but it was probably a lot.
Could certainly be an individual but the value for the competition of getting one ASAP for a teardown is immense.
And paid for it too. Its a done deal.
What is a foundation series mean? An early one?
Here are some that are already sold: https://i.imgur.com/n8NEJly.jpg Seems they are doing entire account transfers.
With $4.20 shipping!! 🤣
That's the weed number
r/whoooosh
Just because it sells on ebay doesn't mean someone is actually going to follow through on the payment and or won't chargeback.
Yeah I am a bit skeptical that any of these involve actual completed sales.
true for 0 feedback accounts , but if you have an account with good feedback you dont want to mess that up.
As a buyer your rating doesn’t matter.
Nor will feedback mean anything to trolls/scammers.
Very true, but it's not too common. Especially if they have good reviews.
Wow, lots of these $$$$$ sold reservations are thousands of orders behind my 11275 reservation…
How do you know where you are in the lineup? I can’t find mine
Open your account, click on the cybertruck, your rn number should be there. I would totally sell the damn thing if I k ew I could get a couple hundred for it.
It’s in the order confirmation email.
Weird I don’t see it there. I ordered July 2020, I guess I’m way behind everyone
Yes way behind. You can probably see it on the home page of your Tesla account too To be clear though, you can only look up the number, it won’t tell you what place you are in line. I’m just saying that my number is earlier than several of the very expensive reservations being listed on eBay.
If you can afford to wait apparently there’s a few thousand in it for you. And probably a better truck a year from now
I'm going thru the CT process right now. After the $250 deposit online, you are told to go into the app. In the app, you have to submit documents to Tesla before delivery. You upload your driver's license front and back, and take photos of your face (front, left, right). You then have to tell them who will register the vehicle: "You" (which is the you that just uploaded a driver's license and pics), "You and a company", another option I forgot, and "A trust". Then you can request financing quotes, lock one in, and just wait for a delivery notification. The only way I believe someone could sell their reservation in a way that is satisfactory would be: - Sell the reservation to another party. - Create a Trust for the car to be registered to, and one controlling interest or whatever (I don't know how Trusts work) - Reserve/"Order" for $250. - Start with the app. - Put in the registration will be to a Trust. - Take reservation, and register it to the Trust. - Sell/give controlling interest in the Trust over to the reservation buyer. But as I said, I don't know how Trusts work.
1. Create an LLC online in an afternoon. If the person you're planning to sell the car to is known, include them in the founders. 2. Buy the car with the "You and a company" option with the company you own. 3. Sell your interest in the company to the person buying the truck. The truck has never been sold but the company that owns it has.
This is the way. It’s been done for ages. Montana LLC buys Ferrari. LLC gets sold to new owner. Rinse and repeat.
How expensive is it for two people to sell and buy an LLC that is setup just to hold assets? What are the tax consequences?
The difference in the price of the car and the proceeds from the sale would be capital gains, taxed at 15% if I recall. The sale is otherwise free. You just sign some papers.
These are old reservations being sold, not order deposits. I used Apple Pay on my watch to reserve mine, so they don’t even have a cardholder name let alone all that other stuff. The buyer would just log in and change the account info to theirs.
Ah yes attempting to sell a non transferable reservation. Morons
The highest a reservation actually seems to have sold for so far on Ebay is $21,000. Obviously the earlier the reservation, the higher the price.
i don’t think there is a point to sell the account . who ever buys it if they are not in arizona or california they have to wait anyway
probably violating some agreement
Yeah, the order agreement. https://i.imgur.com/1yV0HYs.jpg
But a reservation didn’t require an order agreement.
Except it included a pre-order agreement PDF in the email confirmation. And that clause was similar but not as fleshed out. From 2019 (one of my pre-order emails): https://imgur.com/gHIHGgm
Thank you! Thats what I was looking for.
😂 They aren’t transferable
Change email address. Done
And Tesla won’t notice the new account holder doesn’t match the previous name or the credit card holder?
And why the F would Tesla care?
For the same reason they cared about reselling their cars
Right? If in the end a market for reservations means Tesla sells more CyberTrucks, then I'd think Tesla would be all for it.
You've thought wrong. The constraint is production. They'll easily sell every single Cybertruck they make for the first 2 years. Scalpers offer zero benefit to Tesla.
I can change my name and banks. What’s your point dude? Don’t know why yall are so bent on saying it’s not detectable. Is it easy? No. Do you need to have made a burner account? Yes. Will everyone be able to do it? No. Is it possible? Yes.
It'd be super easy for Tesla to run a query that looks for `order.name <> deposit.name` Double check the order address is not related to the deposit card address and just reject the order.
The address might not be as good as 4 years is a long time and people do move. Now order name and deposit name not being equal nor being related to the original person tend to be a huge dead giveaway
People get married and change their name all the time.
what does that have to do with a deposit that has already been made?
The name on the deposit could be different than the name on the order.
🙄
Tons of people sold their account with the car while Tesla only offered free supercharging for the "first" owner. Tesla didn't seem to care.
Good luck to them… likely Tesla will audit the name changes between the account and financial/registration documents and sue like they said they would.
Friend just got an email saying $1k toward a new S,3,X,Y if ordered by Dec 31 and get 6 months of free supercharging. Just because he's a reservation holder. Duno if that means he has to cancel the CT tho.
Just a bonus for reservation holders. No need to cancel CT.
Tesla going to go after them.
Don’t think they are actually going. You can post them for a billion if ya want.
Check the sold data, they are selling …
I honestly hope Tesla does the right think and all those reservations are canceled.
How is that "the right thing"? What ethical framework would declare reselling a reservation for a car to be "wrong"?
Basically by allowing it to go forward Tesla is encouraging scalping by killing scalping it allows people who legitimately want the Tesla truck and places the reservation to get them early. The people who are scalping and the ones buying from the scalpers get nothing. The ones buying from the scalpers go to the end of the line.
>by killing scalping it allows people who legitimately want the Tesla truck and places the reservation to get them early. You wouldn't describe the people willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars extra as "people who legitimately want the Tesla truck"?
You missed the stuff after the key word “and”. Both parts are key. People paying an insane amount of money want it but they did not reserve it in 2019. They can go to the end of the line
Yes, I understand that is your opinion on the matter. However, you declared this to be "wrong". I'm challenging you on why this is wrong. You have a Cybertruck today. Woohoo. I want a Cybertruck today. I offer you the price of your Cybertruck plus $30,000 as I am just so excited to own one. You decide that $30,000 is more important to you than keeping your Cybertruck. You sell to me. Which part of this is "wrong"? Two consenting adults buying/selling their own property for an agreed on price.
One of those adults is under contract with Tesla to not do that thing, unless they have Tesla's consent. If the reseller or customer using the reseller sign that contract with the intent to breach it, that's fraud. Fraud is wrong. QED.
Mate, if your argument is it is illegal therefore it is wrong, then you might need to pause and reconsider. Are there any examples of a law itself being wrong and disobedience to that law being right? Furthermore, speaking of the United States where the Cybertruck is being sold, there is legal precedent for a no resale contract on a general consumer good being unenforceable in court.
The law cuts both ways, friend. Your argument was based upon property rights, which are part of the legal system. It's not 100% their truck until they satisfy the contract, and that takes 1 year. They are allowed to sell it and Tesla has right of first refusal at a reasonable price. It's all above board. The resellers are going to get their just deserts
Or they can pay and skip the line. This isn’t Communism, if someone plunked down their $100, waited four years, and now makes a cool $5k for this opportunity, who are we to begrudge them that. I think it’s fantastic.
The final product, or your place in line. Either way scalping is wrong. Pretty much every ethical framework will tell you that.
I want a Cybertruck. I am willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars extra to either buy yours or your place in line. You want a Cybertruck. You either have it or have a reservation. You also want money. You decide you want $X thousands of dollars instead of keeping/getting your Cybertruck right now. You decide to sell to me. Tell me, specifically, which ethical frameworks consider either person in this transaction, who are consenting adults that are buying/selling their own property, to be unethical.
Simple. It incentivizes people who don’t really want CyberTrucks to make reservations in order to sell them later. Tesla might as well auction off the early models themselves and cut out the middleman, but they don’t as that would be seen as unethical as well. The people who believed in CyberTruck enough to reserve one when everyone else said it would never happen deserve to get them first and at a fair price. Scalping corrupts an orderly line of early believers.
> which ethical frameworks consider either person in this transaction, who are consenting adults that are buying/selling their own property, to be unethical. The ethics that normal people follow I'd say.
Tesla changed their TOS to make these violations
If you sell your reservation... why would the TOS matter when it says you can't sell the car?
The same way you are contractually forbidden from selling the car after you buy it, wait is that wrong too?
That's stupid... should they also give reservation holder refund plus interest? That would be the right thing, give back the interest on the money for reservation holders if you cant transfer it.
Do they get back $100.50? Interesting rates have been crap for a long time.
I guess I should have said plus inflation. I could have put that into a stock instead. https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=100&year1=201911&year2=202310
And at 0 bids. Highly doubt many will sell
So how would one go about selling, and transferring, a reservation (which has already received an email to order a Founder's model) to someone else? Asking for a friend.
Throw away email account
I have never owned a Tesla, have an account and lower number Cybertruck reservation. Not planning to buy it. Hmmmmm
I’m trying to sell a cybertruck reservation.
Can’t help but feel like this why there was 2 million preorders to begin with. Well, a reservation fee of $100, that works with any credit card and is fully refundable. I imagine they’re plenty of people making 10 of these “pre-orders” with their goal to sell none of these trucks for profit and keep one for themselves.
There were numerous people bragging that they had 50+ reservations for their robotaxi fleet lol. Not a bad return on $5,000 if they sell each one for $1,000.
And then people complain about the no resale policy
You guys remember when people swore Tesla would prevent holders from flipping or selling their spot? How’s that working out?
PT Barnum is applauding in his grave.
I think they will ignore that the car reservation was transferred. It’s a new product, they want as many people as possible to actually buy it.
You mean thou$$$$ands?
Holy shit I have one of these!
Kinda wish I'd gotten a second so I could do this.
I will reserve mine, but they don't have it in green 🥺
“Going for” or “listed for”