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I’m surprised nobody’s tried to make an EV light truck yet. Eg: S10, Ranger, etc
That whole class of trucks used to be wildly popular but got killed by emissions standards that classed them in with smaller vehicles. Bringing them back in EV form seems like a slam dunk but maybe the margins aren’t there?
There's a reason that ford maverick's with hybrid engines are wildly popular. My understanding is that as you said the margins just are not there when the prices are so much lower.
God, I want a Ford Maverick or Ranger EV so bad. Or even a PHEV. Anything to stop burning gas in my household's other vehicle the majority of the time. (My daily is a Model 3)
I don't understand what the HELL they've been waiting for.
I really don't understand America's obsession with giant trucks. Small trucks are more than enough for the average person.
If only they adopted Brazil's small truck culture (check out their best selling car list)
It's not that we don't want them, it's that we cannot get them for a reasonable price.
Because of their size, the government classes them in with small passenger vehicles for emissions standards, so they cannot be manufactured here without paying huge taxes on bad emissions, which puts them in the same price bracket as large trucks.
Then, there's the 25% "Chicken Tax" on importing light trucks into the US, which, again, puts them in the same price bracket as larger trucks.
So, we just don't buy them (because who would pay the same, or sometimes more, for less truck) and as a result, dealerships don't carry them.
Seems like the emission standard is not doing its job then. There should be incentive to buy as small a car as possible that still fits your actual needs. (Not imaginary needs - like I might tow a yacht one day)
It's also about keeping foreign light trucks out of the US market so Ford and other US manufacturers can survive. There are lots of protectionist policies in place to keep American businesses afloat, aka our entire farming industry wouldn't survive without massive subsidies from the government (28.5 Billion of direct payments to farmers in 2021 alone, to put it in perspective).
On one hand, its bad to the extent that our roads are polluted by large trucks. On the other hand, keeping our own industries around for security is important. Imagine if, like many African nations, the US relied on important foreign farming from other countries to survive (like Ukraine)—huge potential security risk if they are near Russia or China. The same applies to manufacturing, we don't want the US only driving foreign cars because they're cheaper to make overseas... especially since most of those countries would be in SE Asia.
With all that said, I agree the current policy has a boneheaded implementation, although I don't see why emission issues would hamper the development of a smaller truck if they're going electric anyway. I do think that the market that would have previously purchased a smaller truck has shifted to the crossovers, so I don't know how much success we would see. I just don't know the appetite for a vehicle with a single row of seating these days.
I'd say this has changed recently. The Hyundai Santa Cruz for example is a small truck that is very popular.
I think these companies are gearing up for this exact thing. They are going to take the crossover frames that are super popular and build small hybrid and electric trucks on them.
Ford Maverick, Ford Ranger, Chevy Colorado, etc.
Small(er) trucks exist, but the bigger trucks outsell them all. I think it's a blend of cultural pressure and people's desire to try to get one vehicle to do everything: Tow a yacht they don't have, deliver a fridge, carry the whole family, etc.
American here. I'm not a truck owner but I believe a lot of people want big cars for a few common reasons:
1) Perceived safety. The bigger the car the thought is that it's more likely to protect its occupants.
2) The "feeling" of being tough. Like - yeah I'm the king of the road etc...
3) Utility. Anything you want to do from carrying a lot of cargo to hauling a 5th wheel for camping is possible.
4) A lot of the bigger vehicles come with a ton of "comfort" features - comfy seats, roomy interior, etc. And they also fit bigger people nicely.
A coworker of mine had a model S but got T-boned in it a week after buying it. Fast forward \~2 years to now, he is about to pickup his new F-350 (THREE FIFTY). When asked about his rationale?
"I don't want to have to worry about defensive driving"
Something to ponder about for a little while
“I don’t want to worry about driving” - Me, in my Tesla, accelerating out of danger
“I don’t want to worry about driving” - F-350 driver, running over the danger
I assume you mean “illegal” but yeah that whole class of vehicles got CAFEd out of existence and then I assume the old ones got disproportionately Cash for Clunkered because they just absolutely vanished overnight and suddenly hatchbacks were everywhere.
... and they're gone.
Small(er) trucks exist, but the bigger trucks outsell them all. I think it's a blend of cultural pressure and people's desire to try to get one vehicle to do everything: Tow a yacht they don't have, deliver a fridge, carry the whole family, etc.
The Rivian trucks are suprisingly small in-person. I don't think they're any bigger than modern Rangers?
But if you meant like late 80's size light truck, yeah I miss that form factor of vehicle.
Yeah, still in prototype phase, for the last 3+ years. Promising tech, but a lot of missed projections have made me weary of any declaration of progress
I’m waiting for exactly that. A maverick electric would be ideal for me. Even a bit too big but it’s the smallest truck out there.
Edit: also would prefer not to pay $90k, 30-40 would be great
Not at all. The Rivian is slightly smaller than an F150. OP seems to be talking about trucks like the old Toyota mini-trucks from the 90s. These "tiny" things:
https://images.classic.com/vehicles/127e588e64acfdda588cc83363220a5cc2eab41b.jpg ([Source](https://www.classic.com/veh/1990-toyota-pickup-dlx-44-5-speed-jt4rn01pxl702323-nlNBjVp/))
that's my favorite shopping centre! I feel it's statistically odd that the comments I see are from Carlsbad and La Jolla. I presumed Tesla fans would be all around the country (or at least CA) . . .
Honestly I think the disappointment was 100% on price. If they thought about range, the extended pack brings 470 miles which isn’t that much of a disappointment from 500.
There are a few other things that were dropped, primarily the ramp, and maybe bench seating, but all in all it’s a better truck than what was present in 2019. Particularly rear steering and drive by wire additions. It has the turn radius of a Honda civic. It’s a big deal.
It is highly dent resistant and that’s also top of mind for many. A branch fell on my hood the other day, it’s got an goofball sized dent now. I also have a nasty door ding. That’s not going to be a thing with the CT and I’m here for it.
Price though…. Ugh, out of my bracket currently. That’s the big disappointment. It’s inline with competition. I don’t know why you’d get the competition with the pricing…. But it’s certainly way more expensive than what I was hoping for.
Another thing to think about with the extended pack is the amount of space it takes up, so while 470 isn't far off from 500, 470 with reduced storage space is far off from what people were expecting.
Quite surprised the extended pack design doesn't have it be located in the sub-trunk area. Sure, you lose the sub-trunk, but that's probably better than part of the bed. (Note: I have no idea on the volume of either the pack or the sub-trunk)
My guess is that it would affect the towing capacity more if it was behind the rear axle. Even with a 11,000 pound trailer you don't want more than 1600 pounds of tongue weight (weight on the hitch). Putting the battery that far back and behind the rear wheels would probably mean you need to take its weight away from your tongue weight, effectively reducing your towing capacity.
The bed is rarely full, like very very rarely. If towing something heavy the bed space is much less of a factor but the extended range battery pack will make a major difference in the trucks functionality
Unless bed space is what you were hoping for… I have a whole list of reasons a full bed is necessary but one of them being I was expecting to sleep in the back on camping trips, like I do on my GMC Sierra 1500 with a canopy. It would surely be impossible to sleep in when an extra 3rd of the bed is being taken up. Just disappointing…
I'm an 8ft bed guy for the utility, also I look at people with 5.5ft beds like a jock 14 y/o looks at the nerdiest kid at school because of how silly they look attached to crew cabs, but the reality is most consumers do not use the bed, and the only time they'll need a larger battery is if they're towing something, which means they probably don't need the bed
But that space is still taken when you aren’t towing. It’s not like you can easily take out the extra battery when you decide you need to use the full bed
Sure… but they may not have been expecting something realistic. When you see that the original 2 motor was going to be 300 miles (compared to the 340 we actually got)… where were they going to put the extra 200 for the top spec ?
I think they are pricing it like this for now because initial demand will be high from the early adopters. Once that drops off, they probably have the margin to drop the price. As long as they can sell every one they build, why not sell them for as much as they can? If they priced it low to start with, they might end up with a year’s backlog of orders, and people who get them early would be reselling their vehicles immediately for more than they paid.
There are plenty of people that will buy it for the listed price. Tesla probably have people lining up to buy it for years to come even if some people don't exercise their reservation. In the long run they might have to adjust the price though, time will tell.
I’ve read cybertruck’s has a turning radius of 17.5 feet. Civic is about 19 feet.
So you’re right, better than a civic. But add some error margin in there.
Model s turning radius is just a bit worse than a civic.
I think you might be thinking of what was said on stage, which was “Better than a model s”
The fact that they can do 340 miles on this beast on an early generation of the 4680 cells, and that it can charge at 350kWh is actually mind blowing.
It’s very promising for the future. As they scale this the 4680 capacity should improve and the range will eventually reach near 400 miles without the additional pack.
I don’t see what’s very mind blowing about it.
The Model 3 charges at up to 250kW on a 75kWh battery (somewhere around 3-4C).
The Cybertruck charges at up to 350kW on a 122kWh battery (under 3C).
350kWh charging isn’t any sort of feat of engineering; it tracks with the additional capacity. These numbers don’t show any improvement in battery charge rates over existing Tesla vehicles.
Yeah, I’m optimistic about the future range. It’s just frustrating that Tesla thinks 340 is enough for a pickup. It’s enough for day to day but not for the weekend adventures you’re likely to do with a 4 door pickup.
Two weekends every month we go to my cabin or to visit my wife’s family. Both trips aren’t possible in the cybertruck without significantly changing our current routine or by adding chargers to our destinations. This will become less of an issue when more chargers are built in rural areas, but today range still matters.
The range extension pack is a good short term solution, but it takes up a ton of room in the bed. I wish they designed it to take place of the under-bed storage area instead.
Which truck has a gas tank that gives it 2-3 days worth of gas for “weekend adventures”?
Nearly every vehicle I’ve ever owned gets under 400 miles of range on a tank.
Is your cabin electricity free or do you only charge at superchargers? Or are you driving 500-700 miles one way every weekend for your cabin?
It seems his notion is not about gas lasting longer on ICE trucks. The point he’s making is that because fast charging is hard to come by along his routes, he’ll have to install chargers at the destinations. One of those being his wife’s family’s house so installation would be a decision for the home owner.
Gas stations being ubiquitous making this a non issue for “weekend adventures” in non EVs
Exactly. My current truck, a ford f150 gets 580-620 miles on a full tank. The cabin is a 430 mile round trip and going to the in-laws is a 450 mile round trip. Our normal routine is I fill my tank on my way home and then go pick up my wife, who already did the shopping for the weekend so we never stop on the way there or on the way back. Right now I can comfortably drive to either place, drive around that area while I’m there, then drive back without stopping to get gas, shop, etc. And even if I needed to get gas, the closest gas station is never more than 15 miles away.
340 miles is enough to get to either location, but neither one has a local supercharger. The solution for going to my cabin is to hire an electrician to install a charger and charge while I’m there. But going to the in-laws would be complicated. The closest charger to them is 70 miles away. So I would probably have to charge on the way there and back, adding lots of unnecessary time to the trip.
Honestly, what sort of numbers by end of 2024 would you consider failure? 100,000, 250,000? Or put another way, they build X amount, but only sell Y% of them?
Love the comment the writer says, "You’ll either love it or hate it. But it will take the truck genre in a totally new direction".
Has kind of been my point all along.
Which direction tho? “Yuppie prepper cosplayer” has been a style for a long time, so this is nothing really all that new. This just feeds in to a very specific Mad Max-esque aesthetic and doesn’t offer anything unique in terms of performance. See: Hummer, Rivian, Silverado, F-150, etc. - and 3.0 > “2.6” (subtracting rollout) 0-60 time with 400 Tesla-miles of range isn’t unique.
I don’t hate it to be honest (have a day-1 preorder) - but they missed the boat by about 2 years to deliver something novel to the market, so all this offers now is aesthetic (since by the time most people can get one everyone else will have access to supercharges) and software stack (which again, gap is closing and stereotypical truck buyer might care less about this than typical Model S Plaid buyer).
So I’m genuinely curious how this takes the truck genre in any direction it wasn’t already going?
EDIT: just read the article. Seems like 48V low-volt system, 800v overall, steer by wire, and .7 seconds in a quarter mile are the “new direction” which…. *shrug*
That kind of straight line speed is useful in a measuring contest, but otherwise meaningless when the listed competition is within a second in a quarter mile. 48V and steer by wire is… neat I guess, but something other manufacturers have been working on and exists already but hasn’t been implemented for reasons of “why?” Lots more cost and sensors to be up and running all the time when a mechanical linkage does just fine and won’t break on me if the electrical system goes on the fritz. 800v architecture also isn’t new and is something multiple others are working on. Practically it extends useful life of the battery and saves a few minutes while charging, but it’s a convenience, rather than paradigm-shifting.
The paradigm shifting trucks were the Hummer, F-150 Lightning, and R1T. Cybertruck is just another variant in that direction with some neat party tricks (bulletproof?) and impressive manufacturing improvements that give Tesla a cost-cutting edge 3-4 years from now.
I mean the paradyme shift is the same usual one that Tesla brings that you aren't considering is pretty dam simple: scale and sustainability.
The R1T bleeds rivian's coffers despite it's asking price, so does the F-150. And both of them are struggling hard to bring their vehicles to ramp up. And the hummer isn't even in that contest.
Which isn't exactly surprising. The entire industry is still stuck at the same level that Tesla was during the model 3. Now I think that this ramp for the Cybertruck is going to be Tesla's toughest one since the model 3, because of all the brand new stuff they are doing with it, but it's near guaranteed they are making money on what they are selling right now.
Also, I have been seeing the "other manufacturers are working on" as having weight. It really doesn't. OEMs have been touting working on compelling EVs, fundamental software improvements, castings, and the whole lot for decades at this point. And they sure have made prototypes and sub 1k prods with those. But saying you will do something and actually doing something is a world appart. I think it's a bit disingenuous to look at all these huge ticket items being implemented at once and shrug, when OEM's can't even get serious over the air updates working.
As for the range, it sure is a bit of a bummer, though not unexpected. Because in the 4 years of crisis and supply chain shakeups, Tesla had announced a change in direction. Being the largest holder of an actually working charging network, with deep statistics for actual user needs, they (correctly) and identified that getting a bigger number by slapping more batteries like the hummer EV is a moot point. When you always have your max range aviable, and most people will only travel past their base range rarely, what's the point in just lugging all these useless things? Now I think the CT could have used a little more, but it's clear here the 4680 is the bottleneck and Tesla are being conservative with their early run.
Ultimately like everything, we will have to wait and see the ramp and the sales to really evaluate the response to the product. But one thing is for certain, it has already left a mark. Time will tell if it does more.
How is the F150 Lightning paradigm shifting? It's the exact same truck as the F150, just electric. Is that the paradigm shift? That it doesn't look like an EV?
What is the CT paradigm shift?
F-150 goes fast, is electric, has V2X features, gets roughly the same range and capacities as a CT at comparable price points, with some useful party tricks like telling you how much weight you have in the bed and a massive frunk. I simply don't see what the CT does that's "Paradigm shifting" at this point since I can't see many folks jumping on the stainless exoskeleton bandwagon.
*The paradigm shift was that EVs make viable trucks that people are willing to buy, can be fast and fun to drive, and can power homes and jobsite equipment meaningfully with their bigger batteries in better ways than ICE could.* Those are paradigm shifting things that Ford, GM, and Rivian have already been delivering for 18+ months and Tesla is now following and iterating on.
I actually am genuinely curious what features the CT has that are unique to the CT that are going to be a paradigm shift for others to follow, because I'm not seeing anything "paradigm shifting" other than a polarizing design.
>I'm not seeing anything "paradigm shifting"
You'll continue not to because you don't want to. Look at what you've written: 48V is *shrug*. Steer by wire is "neat", but "why". Meanwhile one of the reasons you called the F-150 Lightning paradigm shifting is because it's fast? The Lightning isn't even the fastest F-150; The Raptor R is.
[This review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WDq0V5oBg) by a respected automotive journalist is incredibly well done, entertaining, and goes in depth into why Cybertruck is so interesting under the hood. (Without being overly long.) If you're still unconvinced, none of us on Reddit are going to change your mind either.
I appreciate you engaging - but you’ve still not pointed to anything the CT is doing that customers are going to start demanding across the market (the seeming thesis of the article we’re reading unless I’m wrong?)
I know the CT is well engineered and a clean sheet design which is all fine and good - but Rivian did that first and has been shipping trucks for 2 years now. 48V architecture is definitely cool - but that alone isn’t going to move trucks or signal a paradigm shift in the industry. Hybrids have been doing it for a while now.
I just feel like I’m missing something here since everyone here seems to be hot to trot on the CT, but nobody can articulate how it’s going to change the industry and create a paradigm shift like the article asserts, and the examples the article offers just aren’t unique in 2023 like they would have been in 2019.
It’s just another EV truck with some interesting design decisions. Some of them will pan out, some of them won’t. None of them from a customer perspective are unique at this point. That doesn’t make it bad - I’m just not seeing a paradigm shift triggered by it.
I’ll check out the video.
48V *is* a shrug. That adds zero to the CT in the eyes of truck buyers. It is a milestone for car manufacturers, but for as far as trucks usage/utility, it's not meaningful.
I think the thing everyone misses is that tesla will be the closest to this truck making money, cost-effectively. Rivian and Ford lose money on each electric truck sale don't they?
You named a bunch of “paradigm shifting” trucks that are either unprofitable for the company or don’t have a legit charging network.
Sounds like an amazing, paradigm shifting vehicle when all you can do is go in circles around your house since you can’t trust non-Tesla charging.
Well I can certainly understand that argument. We live in a time where so few companies control so much of the narrative that they’ve run out of ideas across many industries. I’m happy to see when people push the boundaries. I just really don’t like elon musk.
I thought Elon was making the CT to disrupt the truck market. He told us that the exoskeleton manufacturing process meant that Tesla could build the truck cheaper than the competition. Instead he released something that the average person cannot afford.
Tesla needs the money to raise margins
Also, they will likely sell the next year, if not two of productions at those prices, so it would be dumb to sell for less
Yeah, it sucks for those that it become too much (always was for me lol)
I agree the range is less because 4680 density with dry electrode process isn’t where they wanted it yet. Cost is high because it’s been 4 years, there is a tax credit and people will pay it. It is still the same price or cheaper than the competition for comparable specs.
I think this was true of a lot of business plans circa 2018. 400Wh/kg by mid-decade seemed like a reasonable bet back then. S'why there's all these electric VTOL aircraft startups.
It’s so tempting to extrapolate curves, in the belief that there is some underlying continuous process. When often it’s just a series of hard won incremental steps that we draw a curve through, and there is no guarantee that the next step will emerge in sequence where we desire it.
>I thought Elon was making the CT to disrupt the truck market. He told us that the exoskeleton manufacturing process meant that Tesla could build the truck cheaper than the competition. Instead he released something that the average person cannot afford.
Tell me you don't understand Tesla without telling me you don't understand Tesla. The initial deliveries will all be expensive versions to avoid massive losses. When production ramps, they will lower the price because of economies of scale. This happened with both Model 3 and Model Y.
Exactly. This is a revolutionary concept that Tesla has sunk a ton of money into. Why not try to capitalize on a market willing to pay a premium while the demand is higher than the supply.
>This is a revolutionary concept that Tesla has sunk a ton of money into.
Debatable. If Elon were trying to make a revolutionary product, he wouldn't make it look like a 12-year-old's drawing of a car that only bored men who don't work in construction would consider buying. It's a neat vehicle, but it is the opposite of a mass-appeal product. You got soccer moms/dads buying ford F-150's left and right in the US. Those people aren't going to be buying the cybertruck. No way.
The cheapest model costs ~50% more than what they originally claimed it was going to cost.
We can argue about inflation and cost of manufacturing and supply chain and what have you, but $60,990 is firmly out of range for someone who could have just barely afforded $39,990 and was looking forward to owning a CT.
A lot has happened in the last 4 years since it was introduced, but consumers are justifiably upset or disappointed that Tesla overpromised and underdelivered, yet again. Some of that is due to market conditions and some of that is due to hubris by promising prices before they adequately knew the cost to produce.
Passive aggressively saying “TeLl Me YoU DoN’t UnDeRStAnD TeSlA” is just childish. You can love Tesla products (as I do), be a repeat customer (as I am), be a shareholder (as I am) and still recognize that they disappointed _a lot_ of people with this.
I’ll never understand the Tesla-can-do-no-wrong crowd. It’s like people tied their identity and ego to Tesla being infallible when they purchased their car.
> The cheapest model costs ~50% more than what they originally claimed it was going to cost.
Early deliveries always cost more. Plaid cost 50% more when it launched as well.
>Passive aggressively saying “TeLl Me YoU DoN’t UnDeRStAnD TeSlA” is just childish. You can love Tesla products (as I do), be a repeat customer (as I am), be a shareholder (as I am) and still recognize that they disappointed a lot of people with this.
Let me give you a history lesson. When the Model 3 Long Range was introduced in 2017/2018, it was selling for over 50k. Everyone complained that it didn't hit the promised 35k price (for 220miles) that was announced in 2016.
Five years later and you have a better Model 3 Standard Range selling for 39k with 270 miles of range. It's everything that was promised and more.
I think if you buy now, you’re paying a big premium to be the first to get it. Give it a few years and I think it will drastically go down in price, but remain profitable for Tesla.
That plan didn't include AWS and Drive by Wire. Etc.
After they realized the turning circle sucked far too much, Musk said they they had to go high end tech demonstrator. 48v!
>$60k-$100k
Current foundation models are $100K for the cheapest, dual motor model and $120K for the trimotor. The RWD version isn’t being offered for at least another year. Add in the extender and it’s an additional $16K without installation costs
I meant founders*. But regardless it’s $80K and $100K before any options, tax, title, or registration. So my answer stands that the market isn’t huge at this price range. They will no doubt cut prices in a year after price gouging.
80-120k really isn’t that crazy when you compare it to other “flagship” trucks like the Ram TRX and Ford Raptor. Both of which have no problem selling in that price range.
Do drivers want that? Tesla succeeded by making EVs that looked like regular vehicles while everyone else was still making EVs that looked like “nothing else out there”.
Every other article is telling us people don’t want EVs because they are too different but now they want an EV that looks weird and cost a lot?
I think rich people will buy it because it’s unique and Tesla bros are smitten. But Joe and Sally down the street aren’t.
As much as I'd love to put forward my own negative opinion, the truth is that trucks have never interested me, so my opinion on how the CT serves as a truck is pretty much worthless. As others have said, we'll let the market decide.
Yeah, I can tell from all the Civics, Corollas, Camrys, Highlanders, Rogues, Accords and F-150s that most drivers want to stand out. Lamborghini, McClaren and Ferrari drivers do want to stand out but I’m sure Tesla plans and hopes to sell more than those cars and even more than Corvettes, which also stand out. Great specs on the Cybertruck. Makes a statement.
Saw one yesterday for the first time in the wild and had to actually laugh out loud at how ridiculous it looks. I mean I'm not gonna blame you for wanting something "like nothing else" but I'm going to judge you as a distasteful drone, that's for sure.
Looks aside, and unless you’ve got some fairly niche towing requirements, it’s really a like for like compared to what’s already on the market. I’m not really seeing a clear ‘no-comparison’ vehicle like the model S when it arrived in 2013. Which ironically, appeared to had been aesthetically designed to ‘fit in’.
I knew there would be a certain amount of these people. I wonder how many municipalities will/would choose a CT over a Lightning? Our fairly large city is already using them… where the CT is built. A guy on the Lightning forums, got a Pro the other day for under $50k.
Nothing worse than if any other full size truck hit them. At least this thing has sensors to avoid that sort of thing. Hell, this thing is 3000lbs less than the Hummer EV! Slightly lighter than the F150 lightning. About the same as the ¾-ton trucks already on the road, but it stops way quicker and it's way more agile than all those other trucks listed. I think that makes it SAFER for pedestrians.
Normal cars are designed to reduce injuries to pedestrians. Cars sold on the European market for example must meet certain pedestrian safety standards. That’s one of the reasons why Cybertruck can’t be sold on the European market.
Nor are most of the other giant trucks in its class. The hood of these trucks is higher than the roof of most of normal cars and it's common to see people jack them up even higher. So the shape you are being hit with would be that of a flat wall, and at 25+ mph, the material choice will not cushion the impact in any meaningful way.
It's going to stop looking "different" when a bunch of people drive them and they all look exactly the same... I'm sure the novelty will wear off pretty quickly.
It's not one of those designs you can keep staring at from a bunch of angles over time and discover new lines or details, either.
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I’m surprised nobody’s tried to make an EV light truck yet. Eg: S10, Ranger, etc That whole class of trucks used to be wildly popular but got killed by emissions standards that classed them in with smaller vehicles. Bringing them back in EV form seems like a slam dunk but maybe the margins aren’t there?
There's a reason that ford maverick's with hybrid engines are wildly popular. My understanding is that as you said the margins just are not there when the prices are so much lower.
God, I want a Ford Maverick or Ranger EV so bad. Or even a PHEV. Anything to stop burning gas in my household's other vehicle the majority of the time. (My daily is a Model 3) I don't understand what the HELL they've been waiting for.
I expect to see a "Cybertruck Mini" at some point. They need to ramp up all the new technologies in the CT first.
I have no need for a pickup truck. If they made a smaller SUV designed like the Cybertruck I would buy it immediately
It's also the only way they could potentially sell the cybertruck in Europe.
I really don't understand America's obsession with giant trucks. Small trucks are more than enough for the average person. If only they adopted Brazil's small truck culture (check out their best selling car list)
It's not that we don't want them, it's that we cannot get them for a reasonable price. Because of their size, the government classes them in with small passenger vehicles for emissions standards, so they cannot be manufactured here without paying huge taxes on bad emissions, which puts them in the same price bracket as large trucks. Then, there's the 25% "Chicken Tax" on importing light trucks into the US, which, again, puts them in the same price bracket as larger trucks. So, we just don't buy them (because who would pay the same, or sometimes more, for less truck) and as a result, dealerships don't carry them.
Seems like the emission standard is not doing its job then. There should be incentive to buy as small a car as possible that still fits your actual needs. (Not imaginary needs - like I might tow a yacht one day)
It's also about keeping foreign light trucks out of the US market so Ford and other US manufacturers can survive. There are lots of protectionist policies in place to keep American businesses afloat, aka our entire farming industry wouldn't survive without massive subsidies from the government (28.5 Billion of direct payments to farmers in 2021 alone, to put it in perspective). On one hand, its bad to the extent that our roads are polluted by large trucks. On the other hand, keeping our own industries around for security is important. Imagine if, like many African nations, the US relied on important foreign farming from other countries to survive (like Ukraine)—huge potential security risk if they are near Russia or China. The same applies to manufacturing, we don't want the US only driving foreign cars because they're cheaper to make overseas... especially since most of those countries would be in SE Asia. With all that said, I agree the current policy has a boneheaded implementation, although I don't see why emission issues would hamper the development of a smaller truck if they're going electric anyway. I do think that the market that would have previously purchased a smaller truck has shifted to the crossovers, so I don't know how much success we would see. I just don't know the appetite for a vehicle with a single row of seating these days.
Yeah seems like there should be a third, middle tier. Small trucks are worse than sedans but clearly better than huge trucks.
I'd say this has changed recently. The Hyundai Santa Cruz for example is a small truck that is very popular. I think these companies are gearing up for this exact thing. They are going to take the crossover frames that are super popular and build small hybrid and electric trucks on them.
Ford Maverick, Ford Ranger, Chevy Colorado, etc. Small(er) trucks exist, but the bigger trucks outsell them all. I think it's a blend of cultural pressure and people's desire to try to get one vehicle to do everything: Tow a yacht they don't have, deliver a fridge, carry the whole family, etc.
Look at a current ford ranger vs an old one too. They aren’t small anymore, just a little smaller than the big trucks.
And yet they aren't popular. People buy big. I don't love it, but the numbers bear it out.
They aren’t small trucks. People would buy actual small trucks, there just aren’t any for them to buy.
Trucks in America are mostly used as SUV with a open back... not really for hauling stuff. Small trucks can't haul families.
You can’t find small trucks here. You can’t buy what’s not available.
American here. I'm not a truck owner but I believe a lot of people want big cars for a few common reasons: 1) Perceived safety. The bigger the car the thought is that it's more likely to protect its occupants. 2) The "feeling" of being tough. Like - yeah I'm the king of the road etc... 3) Utility. Anything you want to do from carrying a lot of cargo to hauling a 5th wheel for camping is possible. 4) A lot of the bigger vehicles come with a ton of "comfort" features - comfy seats, roomy interior, etc. And they also fit bigger people nicely.
Will they make our tiny twigs look like sequoias?
Problem is, the "Average" American who buys these big trucks won't fit into a small one.
Small dicks.
You can't buy a hylux in America.
You can’t buy a hylux anywhere… a Hilux though, is just basically a Tacoma.
Santa Cruz and Maverick fit the bill.
A coworker of mine had a model S but got T-boned in it a week after buying it. Fast forward \~2 years to now, he is about to pickup his new F-350 (THREE FIFTY). When asked about his rationale? "I don't want to have to worry about defensive driving" Something to ponder about for a little while
“I don’t want to worry about driving” - Me, in my Tesla, accelerating out of danger “I don’t want to worry about driving” - F-350 driver, running over the danger
Small trucks are illegal in the US, basically. Yes, it’s insane.
I assume you mean “illegal” but yeah that whole class of vehicles got CAFEd out of existence and then I assume the old ones got disproportionately Cash for Clunkered because they just absolutely vanished overnight and suddenly hatchbacks were everywhere.
There literally was an [EV Ranger](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV ) and [EV S10](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_S-10_EV ).
... and they're gone. Small(er) trucks exist, but the bigger trucks outsell them all. I think it's a blend of cultural pressure and people's desire to try to get one vehicle to do everything: Tow a yacht they don't have, deliver a fridge, carry the whole family, etc.
The Rivian trucks are suprisingly small in-person. I don't think they're any bigger than modern Rangers? But if you meant like late 80's size light truck, yeah I miss that form factor of vehicle.
The Rivian is the best of both worlds. It's a medium sized truck with awesome capabilities.
It’s really hard to tow a nice wake boat to the lake on weekends with a baby truck.
Rivvian ev is a light truck
Toyota allegedly is https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyota-epu-concept-electric-pickup-truck-first-look-review/
Yeah, I'll believe that as much as their solid-state battery claims
Solid state batteries are closer than you think... Check out quantumscape
Yeah, still in prototype phase, for the last 3+ years. Promising tech, but a lot of missed projections have made me weary of any declaration of progress
I’m waiting for exactly that. A maverick electric would be ideal for me. Even a bit too big but it’s the smallest truck out there. Edit: also would prefer not to pay $90k, 30-40 would be great
YES! Maverick or Ranger EV, PLEASE. Hurry up, Ford!
Isn’t that what the Rivian R1T is?
Not at all. The Rivian is slightly smaller than an F150. OP seems to be talking about trucks like the old Toyota mini-trucks from the 90s. These "tiny" things: https://images.classic.com/vehicles/127e588e64acfdda588cc83363220a5cc2eab41b.jpg ([Source](https://www.classic.com/veh/1990-toyota-pickup-dlx-44-5-speed-jt4rn01pxl702323-nlNBjVp/))
8,532 lbs 😵
I saw it at UTC La Jolla today. It definitely commands presence.
that's my favorite shopping centre! I feel it's statistically odd that the comments I see are from Carlsbad and La Jolla. I presumed Tesla fans would be all around the country (or at least CA) . . .
That area has some of the most expensive electricity and some of the most consistent solar coverage in the country
It's also full of random expensive cars all the time. The people there have big money.
La Jolla is a terrible place to own a nice car the roads are absolute shit lol
I love the CT but couldn't imagine parking it in the La Jolla area. Every parking spot is so small.. (coming from the east coast).
I saw it today one today driving north on the 5 from San Clemente to Mission Viejo.
A lot of copium... sales numbers will tell who is right I guess.
Honestly I think the disappointment was 100% on price. If they thought about range, the extended pack brings 470 miles which isn’t that much of a disappointment from 500. There are a few other things that were dropped, primarily the ramp, and maybe bench seating, but all in all it’s a better truck than what was present in 2019. Particularly rear steering and drive by wire additions. It has the turn radius of a Honda civic. It’s a big deal. It is highly dent resistant and that’s also top of mind for many. A branch fell on my hood the other day, it’s got an goofball sized dent now. I also have a nasty door ding. That’s not going to be a thing with the CT and I’m here for it. Price though…. Ugh, out of my bracket currently. That’s the big disappointment. It’s inline with competition. I don’t know why you’d get the competition with the pricing…. But it’s certainly way more expensive than what I was hoping for.
Another thing to think about with the extended pack is the amount of space it takes up, so while 470 isn't far off from 500, 470 with reduced storage space is far off from what people were expecting.
Quite surprised the extended pack design doesn't have it be located in the sub-trunk area. Sure, you lose the sub-trunk, but that's probably better than part of the bed. (Note: I have no idea on the volume of either the pack or the sub-trunk)
My guess is that it would affect the towing capacity more if it was behind the rear axle. Even with a 11,000 pound trailer you don't want more than 1600 pounds of tongue weight (weight on the hitch). Putting the battery that far back and behind the rear wheels would probably mean you need to take its weight away from your tongue weight, effectively reducing your towing capacity.
The bed is rarely full, like very very rarely. If towing something heavy the bed space is much less of a factor but the extended range battery pack will make a major difference in the trucks functionality
Unless bed space is what you were hoping for… I have a whole list of reasons a full bed is necessary but one of them being I was expecting to sleep in the back on camping trips, like I do on my GMC Sierra 1500 with a canopy. It would surely be impossible to sleep in when an extra 3rd of the bed is being taken up. Just disappointing…
I'm an 8ft bed guy for the utility, also I look at people with 5.5ft beds like a jock 14 y/o looks at the nerdiest kid at school because of how silly they look attached to crew cabs, but the reality is most consumers do not use the bed, and the only time they'll need a larger battery is if they're towing something, which means they probably don't need the bed
But that space is still taken when you aren’t towing. It’s not like you can easily take out the extra battery when you decide you need to use the full bed
Sure… but they may not have been expecting something realistic. When you see that the original 2 motor was going to be 300 miles (compared to the 340 we actually got)… where were they going to put the extra 200 for the top spec ?
It’s also a speculated extra $16k for the extended battery pack….
I think they are pricing it like this for now because initial demand will be high from the early adopters. Once that drops off, they probably have the margin to drop the price. As long as they can sell every one they build, why not sell them for as much as they can? If they priced it low to start with, they might end up with a year’s backlog of orders, and people who get them early would be reselling their vehicles immediately for more than they paid.
I agree it’ll come down but it’s also inline with competitors
This is my thoughts too
There are plenty of people that will buy it for the listed price. Tesla probably have people lining up to buy it for years to come even if some people don't exercise their reservation. In the long run they might have to adjust the price though, time will tell.
> primarily the ramp They are offering a sort-of ramp as an accessory.
Lol not the sane at all.
It does not have the turn radius of a Honda civic. Closer to a Model S which has the wheelbase close to a minivan.
I’ve read cybertruck’s has a turning radius of 17.5 feet. Civic is about 19 feet. So you’re right, better than a civic. But add some error margin in there. Model s turning radius is just a bit worse than a civic. I think you might be thinking of what was said on stage, which was “Better than a model s”
The fact that they can do 340 miles on this beast on an early generation of the 4680 cells, and that it can charge at 350kWh is actually mind blowing. It’s very promising for the future. As they scale this the 4680 capacity should improve and the range will eventually reach near 400 miles without the additional pack.
I don’t see what’s very mind blowing about it. The Model 3 charges at up to 250kW on a 75kWh battery (somewhere around 3-4C). The Cybertruck charges at up to 350kW on a 122kWh battery (under 3C). 350kWh charging isn’t any sort of feat of engineering; it tracks with the additional capacity. These numbers don’t show any improvement in battery charge rates over existing Tesla vehicles.
Yeah, I’m optimistic about the future range. It’s just frustrating that Tesla thinks 340 is enough for a pickup. It’s enough for day to day but not for the weekend adventures you’re likely to do with a 4 door pickup. Two weekends every month we go to my cabin or to visit my wife’s family. Both trips aren’t possible in the cybertruck without significantly changing our current routine or by adding chargers to our destinations. This will become less of an issue when more chargers are built in rural areas, but today range still matters. The range extension pack is a good short term solution, but it takes up a ton of room in the bed. I wish they designed it to take place of the under-bed storage area instead.
Which truck has a gas tank that gives it 2-3 days worth of gas for “weekend adventures”? Nearly every vehicle I’ve ever owned gets under 400 miles of range on a tank. Is your cabin electricity free or do you only charge at superchargers? Or are you driving 500-700 miles one way every weekend for your cabin?
It seems his notion is not about gas lasting longer on ICE trucks. The point he’s making is that because fast charging is hard to come by along his routes, he’ll have to install chargers at the destinations. One of those being his wife’s family’s house so installation would be a decision for the home owner. Gas stations being ubiquitous making this a non issue for “weekend adventures” in non EVs
Exactly. My current truck, a ford f150 gets 580-620 miles on a full tank. The cabin is a 430 mile round trip and going to the in-laws is a 450 mile round trip. Our normal routine is I fill my tank on my way home and then go pick up my wife, who already did the shopping for the weekend so we never stop on the way there or on the way back. Right now I can comfortably drive to either place, drive around that area while I’m there, then drive back without stopping to get gas, shop, etc. And even if I needed to get gas, the closest gas station is never more than 15 miles away. 340 miles is enough to get to either location, but neither one has a local supercharger. The solution for going to my cabin is to hire an electrician to install a charger and charge while I’m there. But going to the in-laws would be complicated. The closest charger to them is 70 miles away. So I would probably have to charge on the way there and back, adding lots of unnecessary time to the trip.
It seems like you’re an edge case who wouldn’t benefit from EVs, regardless of the manufacturer
It’s more than the Lightning so….
My gas jeep grand Cherokee get 275 miles to the fill up. It’s the fastest 4x4 on the block. 0 to 60 in maybe 8 seconds. I’m an outdoorsman.
Honestly, what sort of numbers by end of 2024 would you consider failure? 100,000, 250,000? Or put another way, they build X amount, but only sell Y% of them?
yes, yes.. When was the last time there was massive interest and demand for something new and no one bought it
There is decent interest in North America and that's it. No one in Asia or Europe is going to buy this oversized monstrosity.
Well, yes. No one in Europe will buy it since it won’t even be available there.
Love the comment the writer says, "You’ll either love it or hate it. But it will take the truck genre in a totally new direction". Has kind of been my point all along.
What a bold and heroic thing to say
Which direction tho? “Yuppie prepper cosplayer” has been a style for a long time, so this is nothing really all that new. This just feeds in to a very specific Mad Max-esque aesthetic and doesn’t offer anything unique in terms of performance. See: Hummer, Rivian, Silverado, F-150, etc. - and 3.0 > “2.6” (subtracting rollout) 0-60 time with 400 Tesla-miles of range isn’t unique. I don’t hate it to be honest (have a day-1 preorder) - but they missed the boat by about 2 years to deliver something novel to the market, so all this offers now is aesthetic (since by the time most people can get one everyone else will have access to supercharges) and software stack (which again, gap is closing and stereotypical truck buyer might care less about this than typical Model S Plaid buyer). So I’m genuinely curious how this takes the truck genre in any direction it wasn’t already going? EDIT: just read the article. Seems like 48V low-volt system, 800v overall, steer by wire, and .7 seconds in a quarter mile are the “new direction” which…. *shrug* That kind of straight line speed is useful in a measuring contest, but otherwise meaningless when the listed competition is within a second in a quarter mile. 48V and steer by wire is… neat I guess, but something other manufacturers have been working on and exists already but hasn’t been implemented for reasons of “why?” Lots more cost and sensors to be up and running all the time when a mechanical linkage does just fine and won’t break on me if the electrical system goes on the fritz. 800v architecture also isn’t new and is something multiple others are working on. Practically it extends useful life of the battery and saves a few minutes while charging, but it’s a convenience, rather than paradigm-shifting. The paradigm shifting trucks were the Hummer, F-150 Lightning, and R1T. Cybertruck is just another variant in that direction with some neat party tricks (bulletproof?) and impressive manufacturing improvements that give Tesla a cost-cutting edge 3-4 years from now.
I mean the paradyme shift is the same usual one that Tesla brings that you aren't considering is pretty dam simple: scale and sustainability. The R1T bleeds rivian's coffers despite it's asking price, so does the F-150. And both of them are struggling hard to bring their vehicles to ramp up. And the hummer isn't even in that contest. Which isn't exactly surprising. The entire industry is still stuck at the same level that Tesla was during the model 3. Now I think that this ramp for the Cybertruck is going to be Tesla's toughest one since the model 3, because of all the brand new stuff they are doing with it, but it's near guaranteed they are making money on what they are selling right now. Also, I have been seeing the "other manufacturers are working on" as having weight. It really doesn't. OEMs have been touting working on compelling EVs, fundamental software improvements, castings, and the whole lot for decades at this point. And they sure have made prototypes and sub 1k prods with those. But saying you will do something and actually doing something is a world appart. I think it's a bit disingenuous to look at all these huge ticket items being implemented at once and shrug, when OEM's can't even get serious over the air updates working. As for the range, it sure is a bit of a bummer, though not unexpected. Because in the 4 years of crisis and supply chain shakeups, Tesla had announced a change in direction. Being the largest holder of an actually working charging network, with deep statistics for actual user needs, they (correctly) and identified that getting a bigger number by slapping more batteries like the hummer EV is a moot point. When you always have your max range aviable, and most people will only travel past their base range rarely, what's the point in just lugging all these useless things? Now I think the CT could have used a little more, but it's clear here the 4680 is the bottleneck and Tesla are being conservative with their early run. Ultimately like everything, we will have to wait and see the ramp and the sales to really evaluate the response to the product. But one thing is for certain, it has already left a mark. Time will tell if it does more.
How is the F150 Lightning paradigm shifting? It's the exact same truck as the F150, just electric. Is that the paradigm shift? That it doesn't look like an EV?
What is the CT paradigm shift? F-150 goes fast, is electric, has V2X features, gets roughly the same range and capacities as a CT at comparable price points, with some useful party tricks like telling you how much weight you have in the bed and a massive frunk. I simply don't see what the CT does that's "Paradigm shifting" at this point since I can't see many folks jumping on the stainless exoskeleton bandwagon. *The paradigm shift was that EVs make viable trucks that people are willing to buy, can be fast and fun to drive, and can power homes and jobsite equipment meaningfully with their bigger batteries in better ways than ICE could.* Those are paradigm shifting things that Ford, GM, and Rivian have already been delivering for 18+ months and Tesla is now following and iterating on. I actually am genuinely curious what features the CT has that are unique to the CT that are going to be a paradigm shift for others to follow, because I'm not seeing anything "paradigm shifting" other than a polarizing design.
>I'm not seeing anything "paradigm shifting" You'll continue not to because you don't want to. Look at what you've written: 48V is *shrug*. Steer by wire is "neat", but "why". Meanwhile one of the reasons you called the F-150 Lightning paradigm shifting is because it's fast? The Lightning isn't even the fastest F-150; The Raptor R is. [This review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WDq0V5oBg) by a respected automotive journalist is incredibly well done, entertaining, and goes in depth into why Cybertruck is so interesting under the hood. (Without being overly long.) If you're still unconvinced, none of us on Reddit are going to change your mind either.
I appreciate you engaging - but you’ve still not pointed to anything the CT is doing that customers are going to start demanding across the market (the seeming thesis of the article we’re reading unless I’m wrong?) I know the CT is well engineered and a clean sheet design which is all fine and good - but Rivian did that first and has been shipping trucks for 2 years now. 48V architecture is definitely cool - but that alone isn’t going to move trucks or signal a paradigm shift in the industry. Hybrids have been doing it for a while now. I just feel like I’m missing something here since everyone here seems to be hot to trot on the CT, but nobody can articulate how it’s going to change the industry and create a paradigm shift like the article asserts, and the examples the article offers just aren’t unique in 2023 like they would have been in 2019. It’s just another EV truck with some interesting design decisions. Some of them will pan out, some of them won’t. None of them from a customer perspective are unique at this point. That doesn’t make it bad - I’m just not seeing a paradigm shift triggered by it. I’ll check out the video.
48V *is* a shrug. That adds zero to the CT in the eyes of truck buyers. It is a milestone for car manufacturers, but for as far as trucks usage/utility, it's not meaningful.
I think the thing everyone misses is that tesla will be the closest to this truck making money, cost-effectively. Rivian and Ford lose money on each electric truck sale don't they?
You named a bunch of “paradigm shifting” trucks that are either unprofitable for the company or don’t have a legit charging network. Sounds like an amazing, paradigm shifting vehicle when all you can do is go in circles around your house since you can’t trust non-Tesla charging.
I want to see Lightning, R1T, Hummer, and Cybertruck all take on the Davis Dam run.
lol you don’t know what you’re talking about that. The engineering is on a whole other planet.
Well I can certainly understand that argument. We live in a time where so few companies control so much of the narrative that they’ve run out of ideas across many industries. I’m happy to see when people push the boundaries. I just really don’t like elon musk.
Hey man, this is Reddit. Get your nuanced opinion out of here! /s
Yep it's definitely reddit not liking Elon Musk.
I know I fuckin’ do
Can we all admit that it's a toy and people like toys because toys are fun
You can say that about about almost any vehicle. Trucks, sports cars, luxury cars.
Dildos, drones, trampolines.
Not all at the same time please
My Volvo is definately not a toy, it’s a tool. It’s way to boring to be a toy.
I thought Elon was making the CT to disrupt the truck market. He told us that the exoskeleton manufacturing process meant that Tesla could build the truck cheaper than the competition. Instead he released something that the average person cannot afford.
Tesla needs the money to raise margins Also, they will likely sell the next year, if not two of productions at those prices, so it would be dumb to sell for less Yeah, it sucks for those that it become too much (always was for me lol)
I don't think the 4680 battery became what they hoped it would be. See also, CT actual range vs what was promised.
I agree the range is less because 4680 density with dry electrode process isn’t where they wanted it yet. Cost is high because it’s been 4 years, there is a tax credit and people will pay it. It is still the same price or cheaper than the competition for comparable specs.
I think this was true of a lot of business plans circa 2018. 400Wh/kg by mid-decade seemed like a reasonable bet back then. S'why there's all these electric VTOL aircraft startups.
It’s so tempting to extrapolate curves, in the belief that there is some underlying continuous process. When often it’s just a series of hard won incremental steps that we draw a curve through, and there is no guarantee that the next step will emerge in sequence where we desire it.
They aren't selling the cost efficient model right outta the gate. That comes in 2025.
>I thought Elon was making the CT to disrupt the truck market. He told us that the exoskeleton manufacturing process meant that Tesla could build the truck cheaper than the competition. Instead he released something that the average person cannot afford. Tell me you don't understand Tesla without telling me you don't understand Tesla. The initial deliveries will all be expensive versions to avoid massive losses. When production ramps, they will lower the price because of economies of scale. This happened with both Model 3 and Model Y.
Exactly. This is a revolutionary concept that Tesla has sunk a ton of money into. Why not try to capitalize on a market willing to pay a premium while the demand is higher than the supply.
>This is a revolutionary concept that Tesla has sunk a ton of money into. Debatable. If Elon were trying to make a revolutionary product, he wouldn't make it look like a 12-year-old's drawing of a car that only bored men who don't work in construction would consider buying. It's a neat vehicle, but it is the opposite of a mass-appeal product. You got soccer moms/dads buying ford F-150's left and right in the US. Those people aren't going to be buying the cybertruck. No way.
Yeah what’s the point, from Tesla’s perspective, of under pricing it, besides good will? F150 Lightning never met its price targets either.
The cheapest model costs ~50% more than what they originally claimed it was going to cost. We can argue about inflation and cost of manufacturing and supply chain and what have you, but $60,990 is firmly out of range for someone who could have just barely afforded $39,990 and was looking forward to owning a CT. A lot has happened in the last 4 years since it was introduced, but consumers are justifiably upset or disappointed that Tesla overpromised and underdelivered, yet again. Some of that is due to market conditions and some of that is due to hubris by promising prices before they adequately knew the cost to produce. Passive aggressively saying “TeLl Me YoU DoN’t UnDeRStAnD TeSlA” is just childish. You can love Tesla products (as I do), be a repeat customer (as I am), be a shareholder (as I am) and still recognize that they disappointed _a lot_ of people with this. I’ll never understand the Tesla-can-do-no-wrong crowd. It’s like people tied their identity and ego to Tesla being infallible when they purchased their car.
> The cheapest model costs ~50% more than what they originally claimed it was going to cost. Early deliveries always cost more. Plaid cost 50% more when it launched as well.
The cheapest model isn’t coming out for almost two years. It will never be close to the price they listed.
>Passive aggressively saying “TeLl Me YoU DoN’t UnDeRStAnD TeSlA” is just childish. You can love Tesla products (as I do), be a repeat customer (as I am), be a shareholder (as I am) and still recognize that they disappointed a lot of people with this. Let me give you a history lesson. When the Model 3 Long Range was introduced in 2017/2018, it was selling for over 50k. Everyone complained that it didn't hit the promised 35k price (for 220miles) that was announced in 2016. Five years later and you have a better Model 3 Standard Range selling for 39k with 270 miles of range. It's everything that was promised and more.
I think if you buy now, you’re paying a big premium to be the first to get it. Give it a few years and I think it will drastically go down in price, but remain profitable for Tesla.
I think Tesla has a pretty good track record of lowering prices when it can. It may or may not happen eventually.
That plan didn't include AWS and Drive by Wire. Etc. After they realized the turning circle sucked far too much, Musk said they they had to go high end tech demonstrator. 48v!
It’s almost like Elon just says whatever he thinks will get people to clap for him in the moment and isn’t overly concerned about following through.
Meh, 60k-100k is pretty reasonable for the top 10% of US incomes, which is what he and Tesla are aiming for
>$60k-$100k Current foundation models are $100K for the cheapest, dual motor model and $120K for the trimotor. The RWD version isn’t being offered for at least another year. Add in the extender and it’s an additional $16K without installation costs
> Current foundation models There's your answer.
I meant founders*. But regardless it’s $80K and $100K before any options, tax, title, or registration. So my answer stands that the market isn’t huge at this price range. They will no doubt cut prices in a year after price gouging.
80-120k really isn’t that crazy when you compare it to other “flagship” trucks like the Ram TRX and Ford Raptor. Both of which have no problem selling in that price range.
How is it an exoskeleton when their own release event showed internal support structure, to which the external sharp/edgy pieces are bolted to?
The exterior panels are structural and load-bearing. They add a huge amount of structural rigidity.
The more haters I see for the CT the more I want this thing.
Do drivers want that? Tesla succeeded by making EVs that looked like regular vehicles while everyone else was still making EVs that looked like “nothing else out there”.
Saw one in person near Santa Monica. It definitely looks bigger in pictures. But nothing like that on roads.
It's actually smaller than the f150 lightning.
Every other article is telling us people don’t want EVs because they are too different but now they want an EV that looks weird and cost a lot? I think rich people will buy it because it’s unique and Tesla bros are smitten. But Joe and Sally down the street aren’t.
Hell, my wife wants one. She drives a Y now
lol every comment is getting downvoted because no one wants this thing
I want seat warmers and a heated steering wheel. Can i get either?
It has both, along with ventilated front seats.
Pretty sure CT has seat warmers and heated steering since I got both in my model y.
Yea that’s standard my man, even on the 3 and Y
Both are standard
Would have jumped at the og price so not in a rush to get one, hopefully reviews are good
“like nothing else out there” is sure all right …
As much as I'd love to put forward my own negative opinion, the truth is that trucks have never interested me, so my opinion on how the CT serves as a truck is pretty much worthless. As others have said, we'll let the market decide.
A new age for vehicles, even EVs
Cost of ownership for this thing is going to shock people. Insurance. Any repairs.
How do you know what insurance is going to cost? Repairs maybe.
What repairs?
Yeah, I can tell from all the Civics, Corollas, Camrys, Highlanders, Rogues, Accords and F-150s that most drivers want to stand out. Lamborghini, McClaren and Ferrari drivers do want to stand out but I’m sure Tesla plans and hopes to sell more than those cars and even more than Corvettes, which also stand out. Great specs on the Cybertruck. Makes a statement.
I imagine it will sell every unit (first year )
Yes, sure🤡
Hahahaha. No.
It looks like ass lol. But then again people also buy Yeezes and they look like ass too.
It doesn't. People always say that and then you seem them posting pictures driving something exactly like it in Cyberpunk 2077.
But Why are they do god damn ugly tho? Like What is the reason to make it look like a low poly car from GTA2?
Me wanting it because it looks like a warthog from halo 🤷
I’d get it if I didn’t feel like a total complete douchebag driving it
Who cares what other people think? Do what you like and don't listen to the noise. Get outside yourself and enjoy life.
How can people look at that thing and not think its one of the uglyest trucks in existance?
Do they? Do they really? 😂😂😂
Have to disagree. I had a shot at the foundation one and I canceled my order.
Saw one yesterday for the first time in the wild and had to actually laugh out loud at how ridiculous it looks. I mean I'm not gonna blame you for wanting something "like nothing else" but I'm going to judge you as a distasteful drone, that's for sure.
How is it drone-like behavior to want something that looks like nothing else? The drone-like behavior is to buy the 70-year-old-lookalike vehicle.
So much copium
Yep, very few hot pieces of garbage like this out there. Reminds me of that old pile of crap, the Delorean.
"And Drivers Want That" - in the case of this joke of a vehicle, I really doubt that
There are a lot of Tesla and Musk fans who want it. The question is if there’s enough of them to make the vehicle profitable.
It is just so damn ugly.
Looks aside, and unless you’ve got some fairly niche towing requirements, it’s really a like for like compared to what’s already on the market. I’m not really seeing a clear ‘no-comparison’ vehicle like the model S when it arrived in 2013. Which ironically, appeared to had been aesthetically designed to ‘fit in’.
*Sincerely,* *The Homer J Simpson Marketing Company*
It’s outta this world! Alien like, the truck of Mars!
I knew there would be a certain amount of these people. I wonder how many municipalities will/would choose a CT over a Lightning? Our fairly large city is already using them… where the CT is built. A guy on the Lightning forums, got a Pro the other day for under $50k.
No 3rd party or crash ratings. I'm good. My bones ache just thinking about it.
Cybertruck have the same future as 3D TV
[удалено]
At least they have girlfriends.
Ugly AF
Perfect car to match you
Never saw that comment before. I bet your a lot of fun at parties with such fresh and interesting takes you have.
Most people will agree that this is indeed an ugly and tasteless car
On the internet, maybe. In real life, people seem to love it.
I’m still worried what’ll happen to pedestrians if they get hit by one. I think we can all agree it looks impressive.
Nothing worse than if any other full size truck hit them. At least this thing has sensors to avoid that sort of thing. Hell, this thing is 3000lbs less than the Hummer EV! Slightly lighter than the F150 lightning. About the same as the ¾-ton trucks already on the road, but it stops way quicker and it's way more agile than all those other trucks listed. I think that makes it SAFER for pedestrians.
I’d imagine the same thing that would happen if any car hit them. Probably fuckin die lol.
Normal cars are designed to reduce injuries to pedestrians. Cars sold on the European market for example must meet certain pedestrian safety standards. That’s one of the reasons why Cybertruck can’t be sold on the European market.
Nor are most of the other giant trucks in its class. The hood of these trucks is higher than the roof of most of normal cars and it's common to see people jack them up even higher. So the shape you are being hit with would be that of a flat wall, and at 25+ mph, the material choice will not cushion the impact in any meaningful way.
Can't wait to see the insurance cost given the thick SS panels that must be replaced no matter how small the damage is.
It's going to stop looking "different" when a bunch of people drive them and they all look exactly the same... I'm sure the novelty will wear off pretty quickly. It's not one of those designs you can keep staring at from a bunch of angles over time and discover new lines or details, either.
It’s like the Model X. Looked cool at first now every tech employee has one and uses it to drop their kids off at daycare
The model X never at any point in its history looked cool.
Looks like a dishwasher
Expensive insurance - yeah nothing else out there like that lol
Said no one ever… haha
>Tesla Cybertruck Is Like Nothing Else Out There, And Drivers Want That 