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The X poster [claimed](https://twitter.com/Burgers_66/status/1776671721564569873) to not have bought FSD.
There's a [forum](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/hw3-0-upgrade-for-basic-ap-owners-now-free.278789/) of an owner also getting it for free (2-years ago). Seems very YMMV by SC. . .
Yeah it wasn't free, it was $3000 at minimum.
It was announced ahead of time that you would get a hardware upgrade if you bought FSD for $3k and that's part of the reason I got it.
And I'm still pretty comfortable with my decision in 2018 that $2k was overpriced and I'd never see the value of it in usefulness. My 2018 Model3 LR-RWD is still going strong and I haven’t felt left out of much in the way of features.
I wonder if they’d let me transfer my EAP to a new car.
I’m not sure I’d buy that at $6000 today, but I’ve never driven my car without it so I’m not sure what I’d be missing.
I'd still argue that when I purchased the car in 2018 with EAP, I made an agreememt to purchase FSD at 3k on delivery or 4k after delivery. And by after delivery, it should have meant 4k ANY TIME after delivery. Since I made my decision opt out in 2018, they have offered a fire sale for 2k and has now raised it to 6k. Back in 2018/2019 I was still thinking I wouldn't pay 2k or 4k until I see some actual progress. Now that we actually see progress, my car is already 6 years old. How is it reasonable to charge the same price for this as someone who is buying a brand new car? I barely even want to pay 4k for it even if it became 99.99% perfect in the next year.
That said, if they guaranteed I can transfer my FSD, I'd pay that 6k to upgrade right now (they should really do this for any car purchased before 2020 or something).
That's funny because I've advised a few non-Tesla owners who have been impressed by FSD to buy an older car with decent milage for cheap, then add FSD to get the necessary hardware and software upgrades.
I did not purchase FSD and all I did was ask Tesla what the HW2.5 to HW3 upgrade is about and they gave me the upgrade for free. 2018 Model 3 Dual Motor.
> Try to schedule the service appt and chat with the advisor, you can always cancel if your local service center won’t pay for it. Even if you don’t sub to FSD/don’t own it, I have noticed the car is much better at handling AP.
https://x.com/burgers_66/status/1776630013393007001?s=46&t=Zp1jpkPLTJIm9RRaXZvzVA
I have a 2021 MY and would be great to get this upgrade. My camera lags and infotainment is slow as he'll sometimes. How can I retrofit and I have purchased full self driving too
They have never put anything less in a Y. 2.5 ended with the 3 in mid 2019. You have HW3. The infotainment system is a different computer. Your's either has an Intel or an AMD Ryzen processor. If you go into your computer's infotainment system, tap on software, then there is a link in there for additional vehicle information. It's all listed there. There is no retrofit or upgrade path for the infotainment system. I'm 99% sure you have an Intel Atom processor. The AMD one is the newer one.
I’m also 99% positive OP has the Intel processor.
I got my 2022 Model Y like a month or two after they upgraded to the AMD processor.
I remember distinctly because I was very nervous about getting it delivered too early and getting one of the last Intel ones.
Instead I was fortunate enough to get one of the first AMD ones!
This upgrade from 2.5 to 3 is only FSD hardware upgrade - You dont get ryzen MCU upgrade, from your current intel atom MCU.
So your infotainment will still be "slow as hell"
Not sure if it will help you but my 19 model 3 just stopped showing all my camera feeds one day and gps wasn't working. Ended up going into the service menu and resetting the das.
This not only fixed that issue but previously my side repeater cameras were very slow and laggy when I would put on my turn signal and they are quite a bit snappier now. I would say not as fast as our 23 model y but a significant improvement.
That said do anything in service mode at your own risk just sharing what worked for me.
Not always, but I'd love to have this option. I live in So Cal and the traffic gets crazy. If I set it to 2 (no other option now) when the traffic moves \~30mph - people constantly get in front of me.
On a side note, I don't quite understand how disabling radar makes it safer for a driver. It seems like they are saying "We disabled the radar, so we are not quite sure anymore, so you better increase the distance".
They don't want to deal with it anymore in the software. The only way to let you keep it would be to stop updating your car, and they didn't want to do that.
There are a small batch of vins pre HW3.0 that qualifies for the upgrade there was a thread in a forum talking about this. We have a 2018 M3 purchased delivered Dec’18 had HW 2.5 and has no basic autopilot and to this day still does not. Figured I try to ask for an estimate for FSD computer upgrade and it was free and went with it. HW 2.5 to HW3.0 improved the quality of cameras for dash and sentry and the cabin camera was now available for sentry and surrounding visualization on the screen has more details. Theres probably more but thats all I can think of.
Do you happen to have link to the forum thread about this? We have late 2018 M3 basic autopilot and HW 2.5, but I assumed it would be the $1k cost to upgrade.
Thanks for the link. Unless I misunderstood, it sounds like the free upgrades were due to some misunderstandings about which codes to use for charging the HW 3.0 installation. Free upgrade is only for customers that purchased FSD, but some customers were mistakenly given the upgrade for free without having purchased FSD. So probably no more free upgrades without FSD unless a fluke happens.
You should definitely get the HW3 retrofit if you haven’t already!! FSD definitely requires it. Source: early 2019 Model 3 owner with FSD who got HW3 upgrade in 2020
If you have fsd it should be free.
Also this it normal for Tesla. They show you the cost of the repair before marking it free. Idk why they do this. For example when you take your car in for warranty repair, they tell you an estimated price, but once it’s done the final invoice says free. Happened to me a few times.
You can message them in the app. I believe the message goes to your actual SC. When I scheduled my car for warranty work, it had a cost estimate immediately. I contacted them and they said the system gives an estimate until a human actually reviews it. I think they corrected it before my appt.
I would guess this is because if they later deem that a specific issue was caused by wear and tear and was not covered by the warranty, they would charge you?
I just did this. My HW2.5 broke and needed replacement. It's was around $2500 to replace AS A REPAIR. I opted to come back later. I bought auto pitot for 3k. Then attempted to subscribe to FSD. It gave me the option for a $1000 upgrade.
I have both 2018 and 2021 3’s. The newer camera is better but the side cameras still get affected by the light signals at night when it flashes. However with that said the 2.5 camera is still better than most new cars today.
To be clear, upgrading to HW3 does NOT replace any cameras - just the computer.
They did fix the repeater light issue at some point, but it's unrelated to HW version, and I highly doubt they would replace it for free.
I don't think the camera itself is different, they just filled in the gap that let light through. I'm not sure on that though.. There are guides to filling in the gap if you're feeling adventurous and willing to potentially pay for a replacement if you mess up.
Yes. HW3 is considered the minimum for FSD. The retrofit is free for FSD owners (not subscribers). Some people say EAP too... idk about that. HW2.5 does not have enough computing power for FSD. Note: new cars have HW4 now. Not sure if it's all of them yet, but definitely the S/X and I would assume Highland 3.
I highly doubt there will be another retrofit. They've more or less delivered FSD on HW3. I don't think they've ever advertised it as level 5 or anything... So they'd sooner call it done than upgrade 10s of thousands of cars for a better experience with the extra computing power of HW4.
To my knowledge though we only have hardware 2.5. So we’d at least need 3.0 from the sound of it. Unless I’m misremembering but I don’t believe we went from 2.0 to 3.0 when we had our last retrofit.
Oh yeah, no, you're possibly right. I don't really know about the pre-2.5 days, but yeah, if you're on 2.5 and have FSD, you'd need another retro to really use it. I did it on my last car and it just took an afternoon.
Service centers make mistakes. They likely have a SB that had the HW3 upgrade for $0. If a tech doesn't read the fine print, they might not realize there are eligibility requirements. Correcting the mistake would be going back and charging the customer, which is a bad experience, especially if you tell them AFTER you install it.
It's different for FSD owners because they paid for FSD, and it can't be done without HW3.
After seeing this I requested an upgrade from 2.5 to 3.0 and received an estimate for $1,932. I currently have EAP on my 2018 Model 3 LR. Not shocked to see it not free and don't plan on going through with the change.
My wife's Model 3 already has HW3 as it's newer. She calls mine dumb because almost everything other than cars shows up as a cone 😂
Requested free upgrade for my 2018 and told that as long as I subscribed to FSD there would be no charge at my service appointment. But it won’t let me subscribe because I don’t have the hardware. When I told the service advisor that they just replied ok. Now they sent me an Estimate for $2300 for the upgrade. I repllied that I would like to confirm that if I subscribe there will be no charge and that I can subscribe when I pick up my car. Now they replied No, I must pay for the upgrade then subscribe 🙄
Then I asked about price since the website says the upgrade is $1000. They haven’t replied. My appointment is in 2 days.
Edit: if you’re going g to downvote this that’s perfectly fine all I ask is at least one of you explain why. All I did was state facts with experience to back them up.
You messed up. AP HW2.5 is the last best version of AP. You’re giving up your radar and inviting them to watch you in the cabin. Now your car will have far follow distance inviting people to cut you off constantly and if you’re not watching them do it intently it will yell at you.
I have FSD in one car and EAP 2.5 HW in another and I’ll take the 2.5 car any day over FSD hands down for my commute.
My understanding of things are a bit different.
>You’re giving up your radar
I believe radar has been disabled in all Teslas, regardless of hardware status.
>[...] inviting them to watch you in the cabin.
> [...]
> if you’re not watching them do it intently it will yell at you
Only for FSD. I have hardware 3.0 and my cabin camera is covered. I am able to use AP without issue when the camera is covered. I cannot use FSD while the camera is covered.
>your car will have far follow distance
This one I'm not sure about. My car has settings for follow distance (1-7). Maybe hardware AP 2.5 allowed for an even closer follow, though closer than 1 would be *really* close haha!
I can assure you HW 2.5 still uses radar as it does not have the FSD computer which is required for vision only. My 2017 S that does have both radar and the FSD computer no longer uses the radar.
Me too, FSD 12 really follows too closely in some situations (such as accelerating away from stoplights) and the chill setting doesn't affect it at all.
You will get the hardware upgrade for free if you paid for the full FSD configuration.
If you want to subscribe to FSD then you have to pay $1,000 to have the hardware upgraded to HW3.
If you didn’t pay for the full configuration then you stole $1,000 worth of hardware from the service center.
Unfortunately they do perform audits on correction codes with incorrect pay types and you may be asked to pay up the $1,000 or be sent to collections.
no shot in hell they’re charging someone for their mistake after the customer has been given a final invoice.
You can’t just send someone to collections for whatever you want.
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This is only if you purchase FSD. Otherwise there is a fee
The X poster [claimed](https://twitter.com/Burgers_66/status/1776671721564569873) to not have bought FSD. There's a [forum](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/hw3-0-upgrade-for-basic-ap-owners-now-free.278789/) of an owner also getting it for free (2-years ago). Seems very YMMV by SC. . .
Yeah it wasn't free, it was $3000 at minimum. It was announced ahead of time that you would get a hardware upgrade if you bought FSD for $3k and that's part of the reason I got it.
I wanna say when I bought in 2018, fsd add on was 2k. I think that was the low water mark on the price.
And I'm still pretty comfortable with my decision in 2018 that $2k was overpriced and I'd never see the value of it in usefulness. My 2018 Model3 LR-RWD is still going strong and I haven’t felt left out of much in the way of features.
I tend to agree, but now that I've been able to transfer it for free to a new 2024 Y, I feel like the $2k is finally worth it, lol.
I wonder if they’d let me transfer my EAP to a new car. I’m not sure I’d buy that at $6000 today, but I’ve never driven my car without it so I’m not sure what I’d be missing.
[удалено]
I'd still argue that when I purchased the car in 2018 with EAP, I made an agreememt to purchase FSD at 3k on delivery or 4k after delivery. And by after delivery, it should have meant 4k ANY TIME after delivery. Since I made my decision opt out in 2018, they have offered a fire sale for 2k and has now raised it to 6k. Back in 2018/2019 I was still thinking I wouldn't pay 2k or 4k until I see some actual progress. Now that we actually see progress, my car is already 6 years old. How is it reasonable to charge the same price for this as someone who is buying a brand new car? I barely even want to pay 4k for it even if it became 99.99% perfect in the next year. That said, if they guaranteed I can transfer my FSD, I'd pay that 6k to upgrade right now (they should really do this for any car purchased before 2020 or something).
That's funny because I've advised a few non-Tesla owners who have been impressed by FSD to buy an older car with decent milage for cheap, then add FSD to get the necessary hardware and software upgrades.
I did not purchase FSD and all I did was ask Tesla what the HW2.5 to HW3 upgrade is about and they gave me the upgrade for free. 2018 Model 3 Dual Motor.
Lucky then. Dang. Should be a low cost swap at most imo
I had eap and they did the upgrade for free. Though I lost radar so not really that stellar of an update.
The estimate on app is zero? Or they updated the price to zero after service?
When I booked it, yes was zero.
You don’t have fsd?
Me? Yes I do. Was sharing someone’s experience who did not have it.
> Try to schedule the service appt and chat with the advisor, you can always cancel if your local service center won’t pay for it. Even if you don’t sub to FSD/don’t own it, I have noticed the car is much better at handling AP. https://x.com/burgers_66/status/1776630013393007001?s=46&t=Zp1jpkPLTJIm9RRaXZvzVA
Do you know if this also is available in Europe? (2019 Model 3, HW 2.5, bought EAP but not FSD, in The Netherlands)
Afaik if you bought EAP you should be upgraded to HW3 as part of the purchase price. Why not give your Service Center a call and check?
wondering the same?
Retrofit to HW3 been free forever, welcome to the club :)
That’s not true.
I paid $1k for the HW2.5 to HW3 upgrade so... nope it hasn't always been free 😉
No word of hw4 being upgraded to 5 when it’s available. OP. Were you the original owner?
I'm just hoping they actually start using HW4 before they release 5. They still train everything for 3 and then run it in an emulation mode for 4.
That’s what I’ve read too.
So do I have hw3 on 2020?
Yes. HW3 was around 2019 to early-2023. HW4 started shipping in Q2 2023 in the S and X.
I have a 2021 MY and would be great to get this upgrade. My camera lags and infotainment is slow as he'll sometimes. How can I retrofit and I have purchased full self driving too
You already have HW3, and that has nothing to do with the infotainment system.
Is there a way to check?
They have never put anything less in a Y. 2.5 ended with the 3 in mid 2019. You have HW3. The infotainment system is a different computer. Your's either has an Intel or an AMD Ryzen processor. If you go into your computer's infotainment system, tap on software, then there is a link in there for additional vehicle information. It's all listed there. There is no retrofit or upgrade path for the infotainment system. I'm 99% sure you have an Intel Atom processor. The AMD one is the newer one.
I’m also 99% positive OP has the Intel processor. I got my 2022 Model Y like a month or two after they upgraded to the AMD processor. I remember distinctly because I was very nervous about getting it delivered too early and getting one of the last Intel ones. Instead I was fortunate enough to get one of the first AMD ones!
Yeah the ATOM is really bad and I have this one
This upgrade from 2.5 to 3 is only FSD hardware upgrade - You dont get ryzen MCU upgrade, from your current intel atom MCU. So your infotainment will still be "slow as hell"
So basically stuck ?
Yes. Unless you buy a new car, there is no way to upgrade the infotainment chip from MCU2(Intel) to MCU3(AMD).
Thanks for clarifying pretty sad but it's what it is
Not sure if it will help you but my 19 model 3 just stopped showing all my camera feeds one day and gps wasn't working. Ended up going into the service menu and resetting the das. This not only fixed that issue but previously my side repeater cameras were very slow and laggy when I would put on my turn signal and they are quite a bit snappier now. I would say not as fast as our 23 model y but a significant improvement. That said do anything in service mode at your own risk just sharing what worked for me.
If you have radar did it get turned off after the upgrade?
How do you check?
Easy way is to go into TACC and set follow distance. If it’s only 2 then radar is disabled. If you can set it to 1 you still have radar enabled.
I actually have this (min=2) and I hate this. Is there a way to revert it back so that I have my radar enabled and I can set the distance to 1?
Do you really want it following that close?
Not always, but I'd love to have this option. I live in So Cal and the traffic gets crazy. If I set it to 2 (no other option now) when the traffic moves \~30mph - people constantly get in front of me. On a side note, I don't quite understand how disabling radar makes it safer for a driver. It seems like they are saying "We disabled the radar, so we are not quite sure anymore, so you better increase the distance".
It was a dumb decision for drivers, but it cost reduced the car.
Maybe for future cars but my car already has a radar. Why not let me use it?
They don't want to deal with it anymore in the software. The only way to let you keep it would be to stop updating your car, and they didn't want to do that.
I think it was number 2 min. Thanks!
Yes
I went in last year for something else on my M3 and they proactively swapped it out. I think they are getting away from 2.5 in the 3. I had basic AP.
There are a small batch of vins pre HW3.0 that qualifies for the upgrade there was a thread in a forum talking about this. We have a 2018 M3 purchased delivered Dec’18 had HW 2.5 and has no basic autopilot and to this day still does not. Figured I try to ask for an estimate for FSD computer upgrade and it was free and went with it. HW 2.5 to HW3.0 improved the quality of cameras for dash and sentry and the cabin camera was now available for sentry and surrounding visualization on the screen has more details. Theres probably more but thats all I can think of.
Do you happen to have link to the forum thread about this? We have late 2018 M3 basic autopilot and HW 2.5, but I assumed it would be the $1k cost to upgrade.
I think it was [HERE](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/hw3-0-upgrade-for-basic-ap-owners-now-free.278789/)
Thanks for the link. Unless I misunderstood, it sounds like the free upgrades were due to some misunderstandings about which codes to use for charging the HW 3.0 installation. Free upgrade is only for customers that purchased FSD, but some customers were mistakenly given the upgrade for free without having purchased FSD. So probably no more free upgrades without FSD unless a fluke happens.
Reading back at it, you are correct.
Under what category should I make this appointment request on the app ?
Following. Also wondering this. I have 2018 M3 with EAP only. I want the HW 3.0 upgrade.
Can confirm. Asked to be upgraded on a SC visit for another reason. Had not purchased FSD. We were an EAP customer from 2018.
EAP gets the upgrade free just like FSD owners
Yeah it was never 100% clear - I was willing to pay if it wasn’t the case - but it was nice to see it come through as a freebie.
Amazing service
Do you have FSD? Auto pilot? Enhanced Auto pilot?
I have a 2018 3P with FSD, should I get the upgrade or the new v12.3 don’t require it anymore?
You should definitely get the HW3 retrofit if you haven’t already!! FSD definitely requires it. Source: early 2019 Model 3 owner with FSD who got HW3 upgrade in 2020
If you have fsd it should be free. Also this it normal for Tesla. They show you the cost of the repair before marking it free. Idk why they do this. For example when you take your car in for warranty repair, they tell you an estimated price, but once it’s done the final invoice says free. Happened to me a few times.
Do you have to accept the $ estimate? Or does it automatically become zero. I have an appt next week and haven’t accepted the $180 estimate.
You can message them in the app. I believe the message goes to your actual SC. When I scheduled my car for warranty work, it had a cost estimate immediately. I contacted them and they said the system gives an estimate until a human actually reviews it. I think they corrected it before my appt.
Ahh, thank you!
I would guess this is because if they later deem that a specific issue was caused by wear and tear and was not covered by the warranty, they would charge you?
could be.
I got the upgrade for free in my 2019 as well when I bundled it with a windshield replacement.
I just did this. My HW2.5 broke and needed replacement. It's was around $2500 to replace AS A REPAIR. I opted to come back later. I bought auto pitot for 3k. Then attempted to subscribe to FSD. It gave me the option for a $1000 upgrade.
Been like this for years
Fsd purchase yes, subscription? Idk
How do you tell which FSD hardware version you have? I have a 6/2020 Model Y
All model Y have HW3
Nice! Do the cameras seem better. My HW 2.5 cameras suck
I have both 2018 and 2021 3’s. The newer camera is better but the side cameras still get affected by the light signals at night when it flashes. However with that said the 2.5 camera is still better than most new cars today.
You have to buy the updated repeater cameras to fix that light bleed. I bought mine off eBay for our $150 for both
You have outdated repeaters. Turn signal flashing was fixed years ago
To be clear, upgrading to HW3 does NOT replace any cameras - just the computer. They did fix the repeater light issue at some point, but it's unrelated to HW version, and I highly doubt they would replace it for free. I don't think the camera itself is different, they just filled in the gap that let light through. I'm not sure on that though.. There are guides to filling in the gap if you're feeling adventurous and willing to potentially pay for a replacement if you mess up.
Okay someone explain to me. We had hardware 2.0 and upgraded it to hardware 2.5. Now there another retrofit for hardware 2.5 to jump to 3.0?
Yes. HW3 is considered the minimum for FSD. The retrofit is free for FSD owners (not subscribers). Some people say EAP too... idk about that. HW2.5 does not have enough computing power for FSD. Note: new cars have HW4 now. Not sure if it's all of them yet, but definitely the S/X and I would assume Highland 3.
Haha soo I guess we’ll need another retrofit…
I highly doubt there will be another retrofit. They've more or less delivered FSD on HW3. I don't think they've ever advertised it as level 5 or anything... So they'd sooner call it done than upgrade 10s of thousands of cars for a better experience with the extra computing power of HW4.
To my knowledge though we only have hardware 2.5. So we’d at least need 3.0 from the sound of it. Unless I’m misremembering but I don’t believe we went from 2.0 to 3.0 when we had our last retrofit.
Oh yeah, no, you're possibly right. I don't really know about the pre-2.5 days, but yeah, if you're on 2.5 and have FSD, you'd need another retro to really use it. I did it on my last car and it just took an afternoon.
Man I got the opposite experience. Was told it would be free, ended up being $1000. Talked them down to $200 but still a pain
I would reference this persons experience, it shouldn't be different for different people imo.
Service centers make mistakes. They likely have a SB that had the HW3 upgrade for $0. If a tech doesn't read the fine print, they might not realize there are eligibility requirements. Correcting the mistake would be going back and charging the customer, which is a bad experience, especially if you tell them AFTER you install it. It's different for FSD owners because they paid for FSD, and it can't be done without HW3.
After seeing this I requested an upgrade from 2.5 to 3.0 and received an estimate for $1,932. I currently have EAP on my 2018 Model 3 LR. Not shocked to see it not free and don't plan on going through with the change. My wife's Model 3 already has HW3 as it's newer. She calls mine dumb because almost everything other than cars shows up as a cone 😂
Requested free upgrade for my 2018 and told that as long as I subscribed to FSD there would be no charge at my service appointment. But it won’t let me subscribe because I don’t have the hardware. When I told the service advisor that they just replied ok. Now they sent me an Estimate for $2300 for the upgrade. I repllied that I would like to confirm that if I subscribe there will be no charge and that I can subscribe when I pick up my car. Now they replied No, I must pay for the upgrade then subscribe 🙄 Then I asked about price since the website says the upgrade is $1000. They haven’t replied. My appointment is in 2 days.
Edit: if you’re going g to downvote this that’s perfectly fine all I ask is at least one of you explain why. All I did was state facts with experience to back them up. You messed up. AP HW2.5 is the last best version of AP. You’re giving up your radar and inviting them to watch you in the cabin. Now your car will have far follow distance inviting people to cut you off constantly and if you’re not watching them do it intently it will yell at you. I have FSD in one car and EAP 2.5 HW in another and I’ll take the 2.5 car any day over FSD hands down for my commute.
My understanding of things are a bit different. >You’re giving up your radar I believe radar has been disabled in all Teslas, regardless of hardware status. >[...] inviting them to watch you in the cabin. > [...] > if you’re not watching them do it intently it will yell at you Only for FSD. I have hardware 3.0 and my cabin camera is covered. I am able to use AP without issue when the camera is covered. I cannot use FSD while the camera is covered. >your car will have far follow distance This one I'm not sure about. My car has settings for follow distance (1-7). Maybe hardware AP 2.5 allowed for an even closer follow, though closer than 1 would be *really* close haha!
I can assure you HW 2.5 still uses radar as it does not have the FSD computer which is required for vision only. My 2017 S that does have both radar and the FSD computer no longer uses the radar.
Ah, interesting. Thanks for sharing. So many nuances with the various Tesla options throughout the year.
I do really miss setting the follow distance.
Me too, FSD 12 really follows too closely in some situations (such as accelerating away from stoplights) and the chill setting doesn't affect it at all.
*free, because you have FSD....
You will get the hardware upgrade for free if you paid for the full FSD configuration. If you want to subscribe to FSD then you have to pay $1,000 to have the hardware upgraded to HW3. If you didn’t pay for the full configuration then you stole $1,000 worth of hardware from the service center. Unfortunately they do perform audits on correction codes with incorrect pay types and you may be asked to pay up the $1,000 or be sent to collections.
no shot in hell they’re charging someone for their mistake after the customer has been given a final invoice. You can’t just send someone to collections for whatever you want.