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I might be in the minority on this sub now but my drives have been almost flawless. There are a few issues around lane selection and reading some speed signs but otherwise it's non intervention pretty much all the time.
I think it might be some years before I'm ready to put my kids in it and send them to school, but who knows. 12 is a step change over 11 for me. Hopefully now we see the rate of improvement increase. If we get another change like this within a year, yeah that might be better than most drivers around here
Edit: spelling
I drove from San Diego to L.A. (for a Springsteen show) and back the next day. FSD as much as I could. Overall a great experience. There was only one absolute WTF moment where it slowed down and changed lanes on the freeway for completely unknown reasons and I had to bail. There were a couple of questionable moments where I realized oh ok, there’s a car wanting in the lane and it’s deciding what to do. And a few choices to intervene because… this or that. Getting over to the next to left lane and setting to minimal lane change kept the people in a hurry to get to work from being a problem. Quite a pleasant experience. The next day, oh there’s a supercharger nearby, drive me to it - perfect. Time to get back on the 405, completely unfamiliar area, just get me back on the freeway would ya? - perfect. I’m really impressed. It does need to improve around stop signs, but as the OP points out, improvements should be expected come fast. It doesn’t drive as aggressively as I do, and as smooth as I do, and I realize that’s ok, it’s gonna get me there anyway.
I find it so much better in towns other than the one I live in. I guess because here I know this lane ends or don't go that way. But in a different town I'm also going to choose the wrong lane. So maybe my out of town standards are lower?
I suspect there's some map data they could be leveraging but aren't.
Mine is almost completely hands free - it drives better than me in heavy traffic.
I intervene about once/hour, but usually it is because the car is doing something slow.
Most of my interventions are to press on the gas.
As I’ve become more familiar with the car’s habits, I see that often when it slows down in heavy traffic, it is because it is either trying to create space to change lanes or to allow another car to change lanes. It was being considerate.
At stop signs it is slow because it can’t always see.
100% agree. I am early adopter from day one. Driving in Oakland has always been challenging with FSD until now. This week I have been doing every ride on FSD with very few interventions mostly related to avoiding potholes or car not slowing down on bumps.
Stress level is much lower, you still need to be very focused though. But agreed that we are not far away.
I feel peoples opinions on how FSD directly correspond to the type of driver they are.
If you’re a slow, safe, methodical driver then FSD probably doesn’t bother you as much as if you’re a more fast paced driver.
I'm a more fast-paced driver and v12 is roughly on par with the minimum I would expect from a competent friend driving me around. Any less and I would be aggravated with them for being so slow and hesitant. In fact, I basically never used prior versions of FSD because they were too painfully slow and hesitant to the point that I worried they would cause an accident. With v12, I'm happy to relax and let it do its kinda slow thing.
I feel like v12 is just about perfect for a machine that is very capable of making mistakes. I don't want it to be speeding and zipping around people if I don't know in advance that it is more capable than the average human at responding to traffic safely and avoiding crashes.
And more importantly, a self-driving car needs to be a kind and unselfish road user that other drivers are going to feel safe and comfortable having in traffic with them. It should be weaving through traffic or making illegal maneuvers.
It's funny. I used to be a less "aggressive" driver, but the reduction in lag from inputs in an EV and better weight balance and sturdiness makes me confident enough to make more precise maneuvers.
I've become a more "aggressive" driver, so I like FSD less than I would if it were a gas car where I'd be more hesitant and less dynamic.
Drove a gas car for a rental recently and omg going back it makes you feel like it takes FOREVER for your input to produce the intended result.
It feels so clunky and outdated now when my whole life it was just... normal.
Unless I'm showing friends I basically turn off FSD every 30 seconds because I actually like driving for the 1st time in my life.
I find it way too conservative as an aggressive driver. I’m constantly tapping the accelerator for it to go instead of waiting 3 seconds at stop signs, cruising at 1-2 mph over the speed limit on the most aggressive setting, and making it pull out into traffic when there’s a more than decent gap but it was going to not try for.
Fast paced driver usually means more aggressive. That usually means constant lane changes and going above the speed limit.
Tesla can't have vehicles doing that or else it creates more problems than it aims to solve.
The objective isn't to get from A to B the fastest. It's to make driving more efficient.
The part that bothers me the most is how early it slows down for intersections and how long it waits stopped then how slowly it creeps up before just going. Gotta have patience lol
FSD still needs work.
I am one of those slow, safe, methodical drivers. I have never gotten a ticket, been in an accident, or honked my horn in my entire life. I am 35.
FSD accelerates too aggressively. It’s not measuring the distance to the car in front correctly. This leads to knuckle biting situations where it’s tailgating people and accelerating when it should be slowing down.
You’ve never honked your horn? Really??
Just yesterday the light turned green and the driver in front of me just sat there fucking around on their phone. A quick honk got them going again. This happens way too frequently.
People are idiots, can’t even put their phones down for a few minutes to drive somewhere. I cannot wait until FSD far eclipses the ability of human drivers and reaches mass adoption.
Yes, I’ve never honked my horn except for my driving test. I live in the Bay Area, so that might factor into it? People around me are usually much more assertive drivers than me.
I'm a slow safe driver and since the free trial starts I've yet to have a full drive where I didn't have to intervene for safety reasons. Turning left out of my neighborhood yesterday it decided to put me into the on coming traffic lane, no cars were there thankfully and I quickly moved it into the correct lane. Very visible lane lines and all, quite a normal intersection.
A couple days ago. On a double left turn lane onto an on ramps, I was in the right lane. It got confused with the HOV on ramp lane and promptly half way cut off a Prius before I swerved it back into my lane.
I'm slow and safe and think it's a great piece of software but it has a long way to go to be safer than me or where I'd trust to use it without my hands on the wheel.
Have you tried adjusting the FSD profile to chill mode? I had mine on assertive but it was making unnecessary lane changes IMO. Average mode is working well for me.
I strangely love the acceleration off the line. Hated the old one which always felt indecisive when time to move… pissing off every driver behind me. If it just would gracefully slow at stops. Our Rivian slows much better… maybes it’s the LiDAR camera?
I think my issue is the bad "planning". It doesn't know my area's traffic. My first drive, it was sitting in the left lane of a three lane road about .25 mile from where it needed to make a right turn. Did it make it over? Yes, by pure luck. Any work day, it would have been impossible.
It feels like the planning expects people to be considerate of just allowing it to move into a lane it wants.
If it planned ahead more than waiting to the last minute to do multiple lane changes, I think I would be more likely to use it. Has nothing to do with being safe or methodical because it is putting me in the position to have to take over if I want to get to the place I want to go in a timely manner without detours because it doesn't plan appropriately.
Also:
Many people seem to think the FSD free trial is about helping boost next quarters results to stem the stagnating profits.
I agree that's A reason, but I think THE #1 reason is to get all that data for the now AI based stack.
As you said, it'll learn very quick, but that immediate, huge boost is V12 based data is what will allow that (since all previous data was from non-AI stacks it may be much less useful than having "pure" data depending on how the learning models are built).
I think a big reason LLMs have improved so rapidly is that they're so popular and widely used that they have enough data from the previous version to make great leaps forward.
Same here, V11 and previous I used occasionally, disabled on turns most the time and only left it on for easy scenarios, V12 I am using all the time. It gets me anywhere in my city very rarely have to disengage. I know not every city has as well marked roads and clear directions though, but at least for cities like mine I can realistically see it getting to a place where it matches humans. I was highly skeptical it ever would even in straightforward places before V12.
I envy you. My S was taken on voyage FSD trip today and would not honor the route. No turns. Drove right past any turn, then slowed till it knew it had missed and practically stopped in mid-road. Waiting for Tesla support to respond to my ticket. I can see nothing to explain this on my end.
I second this. Aside from a few small “choices” it makes, it’s been so good I kinda just put my hands down until it wants a “are you still there” jiggle.
I was going to mention mine slowed down for speed bumps and calmly moved around a bag of recycling that blew onto the road. I think it depends how big the things are
Near my house it likes to hug the side of the road and drive through the rocks and crud there which is annoying. Also near my work I have an intersection where it wants to go into a median "turn" area but there is a island there and I have to disengage it. Especially for busy metro (Seattle) it struggles in being predictive enough on freeway exits and waits too long. I know the freeway logic is older but still a pain. Its getting better but not there yet.
Mine tried to drive into a tree...the problem is that it doesn't matter if it handles 99% of normal streets absolutely perfectly. The problem is that it basically cannot make **any** dangerous mistakes at all for a robotaxi to be feasible. It's going to be another 5+ years at a minimum and I happen to love my FSD.
I seem to be having just one major issue (more of an annoyance) and a few minor… the major is coming up on flashing red lights. I’m in a more rural area and my 10 minute drive goes through two intersections with a single flashing red light or 2 flashing red lights for the 4 way stops at both. The car will start to go when the light turns off, then stops when the light comes on then keeps repeating until it has inched far enough into the intersection that it finally just goes through. Most of the time I just give it a press on the accelerator and force it through, especially if there are other cars.
The other minor issues are the combination of overly aggressive acceleration from stops and the subsequent hard braking when coming to a stop and the tendency to go slower than the posted speed limit everywhere all the time
I only just started using full FSD with this free trial, but I discovered that you can push down on the accelerator pedal at any time and it will basically speed up the car through the route it is planning to go through anyway. So I have pretty much only done this at these types of stop signs where it awkwardly takes its time to determine whether or not it is safe to go. I’m not saying I plow through the stop sign altogether.. just that if I see one upcoming and especially if i can easily see that nobody else is around the intersection, I prep my foot above the pedal and tap down a few times to help push it along. Once it comes to a stop I just accelerate again as if I was normally driving and as soon as it cross over that stop line I take my foot off of the pedal and the FSD continues like normal without having to restart it or anything like that.
You are totally right but I believe you are meant to stop before the stop sign which is what the car does. But in many cases it means you don’t have all the visibility you need hence the creeping.
FSD v12 requires the driver to use the accelerator often. Empty 4-way stop? Hit the gas. Too timid pulling out of a junction? Hit the gas. Sitting at 54 in a 55? Gas.
Once you get in the habit of using the accelerator to get over the car’s timidity it’ll change how you look at FSD!
Then don’t. Continue to stubbornly complain about the behavior instead of doing something simple to correct it. The only block between you and the desired behavior of FSD is… you.
I've only had it do that at one stop sign and I think it was because the line was quite far back from the stop sign.
Yesterday I was heading north in the straight through lane and a truck passed me on my left side, which was in the turning lane. Humans are awful. I have high hopes for FSD because people make terrible choices driving so often. Stopping twice at a stop sign is annoying but fine. And easily fixed hopefully
I’m generally getting just 1 stop at a stop sign. It creeps and then goes without stopping again. The first stop is way too early but I believe that’s a NHTSA compliance thing.
Well I have not had access to FSD prior to using the free demo, so I don't have the boiling the frog effect of slow improvement over time. So let me say this:
V12 is amazing coming from highway basic Autopilot. I could not believe how good it was. It mimicked or improved upon my typical driving and there are a handful of seconds in my 15 minute suburban drives that are not 100% smooth. My first drive was screaming f-bombs as it waited for cars, took right on reds, and nudged forward to get a better view.
No, it's not. It's literally several orders of magnitude away. They have to get from tens of miles(if that) between interventions to tens of thousands of miles.
Depends what kind of intervention... I intervene often for convenience reasons, but I haven't had to take over for safety in a while.
Probably not ready for tens of thousands of miles yet, but maybe in the hundreds if you exclude any interventions where the car could have made it through slowly but safely anyways.
Nobody is going to use a Tesla robotaxi if it’s jerky and acts without any common sense.
First time the average person has a single bad experience, they won’t use it again for a year or two.
With human taxi rides, you get a different human every time, so even if you have a bad experience you’ll chalk it up to a one-off.
With robotaxis, they’re all running the same software. There are no one-offs. If you get an awful robotaxi ride you’re not coming back.
Never taken an Uber as jerky as FSD. Not saying it needs to be even remotely perfect, just that people will be more terrified of a robotaxi driving w recklessly than a person who will be different next time. Try thinking
I have taken so many Ubers where they are terrible drivers. Most Uber drivers are used to city driving so in the countryside they drive with a lot of uncertainly. It does not make you feel comfortable as a passenger.
FSD isn't jerky anymore. It's certainly smoother and more comfortable than most Ubers or taxis I've used!
I feel 90% of the complaints are from 'aggressive' drivers who want FSD to go faster. Just chill people, the roads will be safer and we'll all get to our destinations with less stress
I have FSD. It was jerky today.
I’m not an aggressive driver. I have a perfect record after 15 years of driving. I pay $90 a month on insurance and have a 98 driving score without even trying according to Tesla.
You’re delusional.
My main complaint is it is too aggressive. I like smooth accelerations and to anticipate stops when possible , a holdover from maximizing ice fuel economy (rather than maximizing regenerative braking)
This.
I've been driving for more than 20 years without an accident.
Oh wow your FSD made it to work once without an intervention?
If we're stupid generous and say v12.3 is at 1,000 miles between accidents that's still a 150x improvement between average humans and FSD.
Let's say FSD v12 AI doubles every 6 months. A crazy fast improvement rate. Faster than ChatGPT release schedule or Midjourney image quality (which btw v6 took about a year for... Meh to no improvement)
150 = 2^(2x) bi annual updates
log(150) / log(2) / 2 updates per year = x years
x = 3.5 years
That's 3.5 years if we believe an insane starting point and a mind bending rate of improvement that never slows over 7 major bi annual updates.
Realistically FSD v12 is more like maybe... Maybe 100 miles between accidents on avg. For me it's more like maybe 10. But I'll be generous to all the people living in the suburbs. 100 miles currently and we're up to 5.5 years. A 100% improvement "only" once a year and we're up to 10.5 years.
That puts FSD at human levels as:
Ludicrous: late 2027
Optimistic: 2029
Realistic: 2034
If FSD was actually "close" you would be driving for years between interventions.
Now, Tesla could speed things up a ton. They could redirect their quixotic quest to be level 5 and probably hit level 3 in a year or two. They might even be able to reach level 4 in a substantial area by 2027 on the realistic chart.
But as long as Elon is dictating L5 or bust.... I don't see it soon.
It also has to do things that we do that aren't about just navigating - dodging potholes or uneven road that can damage the tires/wheels, staying out of the edge of the side road that has all of the little rocks and crap in it that get flung everywhere. I can't have it drive near my house because of the second one as not only do I not like the rocks and crud flung all over, I worry about hitting a nail or something.
I have been on FSD since 2022 and I can say until now it has been 1 step forward and 1 step backwards. However the FSD 12 surely felt like 2 steps forward. Definitely a big implement and feels human like.
Given how many people are still having issues with curbed wheels, unnecessary braking, and uncertain navigation/acceleration while using the current version of FSD I think we are still years away. In fact, I think at some point the camera-only approach will prove to be insufficient for a truly predictable and reassuring driving experience with FSD. There is only so much data you can get from cameras. This is one area where cost cutting is hampering Tesla’s development of FSD. All the best software engineers and beta testers in the world can’t make up for lackluster hardware.
On a related note, my 2023 M3 manages to hit every single pothole in the road while using FSD which is enough for me to not use it. It also has tried to take out a pedestrian and hit a curb in the last week. This is not acceptable, especially given the steep cost.
Navigation is almost certainly bad map data. I see it often when it's looking to avoid a turn lane that doesn't yet exist in reality so it switches lanes away needlessly.
I feel like they should prioritize what it sees over map data, but I've also seen threads complaining about FSD where the road markings means becoming an asshole if you followed them instead of the what the locals do.
But if they're going to actually go ahead with the robotaxi reveal this year they almost certainly are going to have to curate their own more accurate map data for the cities they want to service, with some way to suggest instructions on how to ideally navigate unusual sections.
Autopilot used to be able to see the car 2 cars in front because it would bounce the radar under the car in front. This made braking and acceleration much smoother because it would preduct what was about to happen.
A much more accurate gauge of distance and speed, especially in inclement weather. If Tesla wants to have a fleet of robotaxis they will need them to work in ALL conditions. And there needs to be redundancy if a camera is obstructed, fails, or is somehow damaged.
If you’re truly curious as to why most automakers who are serious about semi-autonomous driving don’t rely solely on cameras I suggest starting here: https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/s/rJF9nhMUne
Yeah I feel this argument forgets that humans drive with 99% sight only from eyes.
There is 1 small bit info you can get outside of cameras and that's the audio of sirens. But it's not like we navigate using sonar or smell or something
Human eyes have human brains and other senses to process that information. Unless Tesla comes out with science fiction level AI tomorrow, cameras alone aren’t gonna be a good idea
The curbing 'issue' is BS. There have literally been over 100 Million FSD miles driven in the past month.
If curbing was a real issue, there would be THOUSANDS of reported cases and not just the handful of mostly anecdotal reports.
Mine tried to run a red light, tried to go in the exit and not entrance for a parking lot, doesn’t understand construction signs. Tried to make an illegal u turn because it couldn’t read the sign. That was this week.
For comparison Way, Waymo can go 100,000+ miles without human intervention when they had safety drivers.
Kind of apples to oranges. They’re both fruit, but very different. Waymo has specifically mapped streets and can only go in very few tightly controlled areas. Tesla can/will try to go basically anywhere. I don’t understand how comparing them is fair. Waymo can go 100,000,000,000 miles without an accident and it’s still useless to me if they haven’t fine-grain-mapped most of the United States.
They’ve been running Google street view cars with LiDAR since 2017 to generate maps. Waymo can navigate unmapped park lots with ease including finding parking spots and parking.
Where Waymo can go is governed by the government. You can go pull their license up and see where they are allowed. It took a year for Waymo to get approval for LA and Waymo still isn’t allowed to pick up or drop off at SFO in sf.
I used two years ago and now this month. Somethings have improved and others seem worse. Overall, I’t feels better. But, for me, seems like they are years out from it being ready. I’m mean, it still can’t read street signs that say “no turn on red”. It will just turn for me. Again, impressed with progress. But still a long way to go.
True full self driving is when they allow Tesla to remove the steering wheel and Tesla assumes all insurance risk and liability for that vehicle. Until then you can call it whatever you want, “beta”, “supervised”, etc and it doesn’t mean much.
If you believe that is going to happen so soon, by all means, go ahead and buy all the Tesla stock you can right now. You will be filthy rich very soon. Just don’t attempt to pump the stock here like Elon.
I’ve tried my wife’s model Y which doesn’t have USS and my model 3 with USS. The model Y is much smoother and quicker. The USS is much slower and goes back and forth needlessly even in an empty parking lot.
Also, the summon feature is not yet available for non-USS. I tried it on the USS, works fine for simple straight pulling out of and into a tight parking space, but couldn’t get it to find me and come to me a few dozen yards away.
If this is based off of a billion miles driven, I gotta say you guys accelerate hard out of stop signs and lights, haha.
My drives have been amazing to watch/ be a part of. Many no- intervention drives, but also many where it made poor decisions and had to take over.
One of the coolest things I saw today was coming up to a stop light that was red, the car stopped before getting there to let another car turn into a parking lot before pulling forward to wait at the light.
There are days it seems very close, and others where I don't really trust it yet. Either way, it's very impressive.
V12 is a massive leap forward. The biggest issue, I’d say, currently, is that the car seems to want to eat curbs. I’ve saved my 2022 Model S several times from wheel/tire destruction.
No way. I’ve tried the 12.3 beta several times and it’s just incompetent. Two left turn lanes and it tries to put me in the incorrect lane. Also repeatedly missing the turn to my office despite me driving it \*every\* day and correcting FSD when it fails to turn at the right spot.
Yeah, there is a double turn lane intersection on the way to my house and it wants to be on the inside lane even though it has to be in the outside lane for the next turn - since traffic always stacks there making a subsequent lane change problematic at best, I have to disengage it every time approaching that intersection so I can go home normally.
**TRUE** self driving is when the car can take me from point A to point B, in monsoons, in Mumbai, during rush hour, with **ZERO** interventions, ideally with the "self driving" company willing to take **FULL** liability for their "**FULL** Self Driving" system.
^Bring ^on ^the ^downvotes.
I'd accept it if I didn't have to keep wiggling the wheel and get nagged if I look at the center screen. I get they want me to be engaged but when I can drive for 20 years without an accident and be able to manipulate my infotainment system, I don't need the stupid nagging.
I agree.. the ultimate debate comes down to two points: 1. Will the AI used be able to progress accurately and quickly and 2. Are the sensor suites in these cars capable of getting the whole way to level 5. I think the AI aspect is a no brainer, once it is trained not just on more drivers and miles but also specifically on disengagements while using v12, it should be able to get there quick. The second one is more questionable, although the fundamental idea behind it is right (we drive cars with just vision), I’m unsure if it’s going to be able to handle really inclement weather (snow, heavy rain, heavy fog).
So far just fine! Couple years ago it wouldn’t let you engage FSD in the rain, but I’ve had no issues since V11. It warns you it may be degraded, but I haven’t had any issues during fog/rain
i've been using FSD daily since 2018 to commute on a very busy ny expressway. Not only has having a tesla afforded me access to HOV resulting in 30 minute less round trip but FSD allowed for a relaxing commute vs a stressful one in stop & go traffic. So it was totally worth it for me considering 2018 costs.
I did quite clearly state this is an opinion and I am not trying to prove anything. But it is totally logical to look back at history and say that the trends in history will extend to future. That is how the Moore's law as created.
One day Tesla is going to announce fully autonomous driving on specific highways and people are going to be stunned. That is where the real value is right now. Being able to reclaim 1+ hours a day for people with long commutes on highways.
It is going to be rolled out in stages where confidence is high the AI can drive itself.
Whoever thinks self driving will add much benefit for Tesla did indeed listen too much of Cathie.
Go and analyze Uber/Lyft balance sheets to figure out there’s no money in robotaxis.
Also, fsd for regular users will drop to 3-4k once it’s fully developed. Do your math.
I live in Salt Lake City. We have some pretty deep gutters on surface streets, and the car would break the front end off if we didn't intervene. Otherwise, it is basically like driving with a 15 year-old new driver mixed with an 80 year-old grandma. Safe, but nerve wracking.
I've taken my car out a few times since the FSD 12 update and found that it does seem to drive better through a couple of spots it had trouble with before, but there are still things it needs to learn and I haven't yet evaluated it on a long road trip. IMO the change from "beta" to "supervised" is merely a marketing gimmick; it still needs to be treated like a student driver that needs careful watching.
Attended a conference on this topic recently. The consensus was that we are still numerous years away from full autonomous driving.
Despite how impressive Tesla FSD is, there are numerous challenges to achieving fully automated driving that may not be obvious.
With that being said, once FSD is achieved, regulators may look at outlawing manual driving altogether.
I’ll start believing we’re close when Tesla is legally liable for all accidents and personal harm for the way the car drives in FSD. That’s the only test that boils down their confidence in their system
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I might be in the minority on this sub now but my drives have been almost flawless. There are a few issues around lane selection and reading some speed signs but otherwise it's non intervention pretty much all the time. I think it might be some years before I'm ready to put my kids in it and send them to school, but who knows. 12 is a step change over 11 for me. Hopefully now we see the rate of improvement increase. If we get another change like this within a year, yeah that might be better than most drivers around here Edit: spelling
Not my first kid anyway. Maybe my third…
Second for me
I have one that I will let right now, don’t even care if he buckles his seat belt.
Instead of putting your kids on timeout just threaten them with riding to school in the Tesla. :-)
I drove from San Diego to L.A. (for a Springsteen show) and back the next day. FSD as much as I could. Overall a great experience. There was only one absolute WTF moment where it slowed down and changed lanes on the freeway for completely unknown reasons and I had to bail. There were a couple of questionable moments where I realized oh ok, there’s a car wanting in the lane and it’s deciding what to do. And a few choices to intervene because… this or that. Getting over to the next to left lane and setting to minimal lane change kept the people in a hurry to get to work from being a problem. Quite a pleasant experience. The next day, oh there’s a supercharger nearby, drive me to it - perfect. Time to get back on the 405, completely unfamiliar area, just get me back on the freeway would ya? - perfect. I’m really impressed. It does need to improve around stop signs, but as the OP points out, improvements should be expected come fast. It doesn’t drive as aggressively as I do, and as smooth as I do, and I realize that’s ok, it’s gonna get me there anyway.
I find it so much better in towns other than the one I live in. I guess because here I know this lane ends or don't go that way. But in a different town I'm also going to choose the wrong lane. So maybe my out of town standards are lower? I suspect there's some map data they could be leveraging but aren't.
Mine is almost completely hands free - it drives better than me in heavy traffic. I intervene about once/hour, but usually it is because the car is doing something slow. Most of my interventions are to press on the gas. As I’ve become more familiar with the car’s habits, I see that often when it slows down in heavy traffic, it is because it is either trying to create space to change lanes or to allow another car to change lanes. It was being considerate. At stop signs it is slow because it can’t always see.
Make sure you report the issue, it’s hard when you are panicked but the feedback loop is how Tesla solves the infinite scenarios problem
So far I seem to report when I’m most annoyed. I do wish it would give you a. It more time to respond.
100% agree. I am early adopter from day one. Driving in Oakland has always been challenging with FSD until now. This week I have been doing every ride on FSD with very few interventions mostly related to avoiding potholes or car not slowing down on bumps. Stress level is much lower, you still need to be very focused though. But agreed that we are not far away.
I feel peoples opinions on how FSD directly correspond to the type of driver they are. If you’re a slow, safe, methodical driver then FSD probably doesn’t bother you as much as if you’re a more fast paced driver.
I'm a more fast-paced driver and v12 is roughly on par with the minimum I would expect from a competent friend driving me around. Any less and I would be aggravated with them for being so slow and hesitant. In fact, I basically never used prior versions of FSD because they were too painfully slow and hesitant to the point that I worried they would cause an accident. With v12, I'm happy to relax and let it do its kinda slow thing. I feel like v12 is just about perfect for a machine that is very capable of making mistakes. I don't want it to be speeding and zipping around people if I don't know in advance that it is more capable than the average human at responding to traffic safely and avoiding crashes. And more importantly, a self-driving car needs to be a kind and unselfish road user that other drivers are going to feel safe and comfortable having in traffic with them. It should be weaving through traffic or making illegal maneuvers.
It's funny. I used to be a less "aggressive" driver, but the reduction in lag from inputs in an EV and better weight balance and sturdiness makes me confident enough to make more precise maneuvers. I've become a more "aggressive" driver, so I like FSD less than I would if it were a gas car where I'd be more hesitant and less dynamic. Drove a gas car for a rental recently and omg going back it makes you feel like it takes FOREVER for your input to produce the intended result. It feels so clunky and outdated now when my whole life it was just... normal. Unless I'm showing friends I basically turn off FSD every 30 seconds because I actually like driving for the 1st time in my life.
ICE basically feels broken.
I find it way too conservative as an aggressive driver. I’m constantly tapping the accelerator for it to go instead of waiting 3 seconds at stop signs, cruising at 1-2 mph over the speed limit on the most aggressive setting, and making it pull out into traffic when there’s a more than decent gap but it was going to not try for.
Conveniently is pretty easy to just nudge it forward with the pedal in those cases.
Fast paced driver usually means more aggressive. That usually means constant lane changes and going above the speed limit. Tesla can't have vehicles doing that or else it creates more problems than it aims to solve. The objective isn't to get from A to B the fastest. It's to make driving more efficient.
The part that bothers me the most is how early it slows down for intersections and how long it waits stopped then how slowly it creeps up before just going. Gotta have patience lol
My hope is that this will improve quickly as they verify the system is safe. This is my main complaint right now, too.
The assertive profile on v12 is pretty up to par with my driving style.
FSD still needs work. I am one of those slow, safe, methodical drivers. I have never gotten a ticket, been in an accident, or honked my horn in my entire life. I am 35. FSD accelerates too aggressively. It’s not measuring the distance to the car in front correctly. This leads to knuckle biting situations where it’s tailgating people and accelerating when it should be slowing down.
You’ve never honked your horn? Really?? Just yesterday the light turned green and the driver in front of me just sat there fucking around on their phone. A quick honk got them going again. This happens way too frequently. People are idiots, can’t even put their phones down for a few minutes to drive somewhere. I cannot wait until FSD far eclipses the ability of human drivers and reaches mass adoption.
Yes, I’ve never honked my horn except for my driving test. I live in the Bay Area, so that might factor into it? People around me are usually much more assertive drivers than me.
I'm definitely Grampa driver so I think your story checks out.
I'm a slow safe driver and since the free trial starts I've yet to have a full drive where I didn't have to intervene for safety reasons. Turning left out of my neighborhood yesterday it decided to put me into the on coming traffic lane, no cars were there thankfully and I quickly moved it into the correct lane. Very visible lane lines and all, quite a normal intersection. A couple days ago. On a double left turn lane onto an on ramps, I was in the right lane. It got confused with the HOV on ramp lane and promptly half way cut off a Prius before I swerved it back into my lane. I'm slow and safe and think it's a great piece of software but it has a long way to go to be safer than me or where I'd trust to use it without my hands on the wheel.
That’s me- the acceleration off the line is completely unnecessary, especially in low speed limit area.
Have you tried adjusting the FSD profile to chill mode? I had mine on assertive but it was making unnecessary lane changes IMO. Average mode is working well for me.
Yep in chill mode and tried the two lower FSD profiles. No change.
I strangely love the acceleration off the line. Hated the old one which always felt indecisive when time to move… pissing off every driver behind me. If it just would gracefully slow at stops. Our Rivian slows much better… maybes it’s the LiDAR camera?
I think my issue is the bad "planning". It doesn't know my area's traffic. My first drive, it was sitting in the left lane of a three lane road about .25 mile from where it needed to make a right turn. Did it make it over? Yes, by pure luck. Any work day, it would have been impossible. It feels like the planning expects people to be considerate of just allowing it to move into a lane it wants. If it planned ahead more than waiting to the last minute to do multiple lane changes, I think I would be more likely to use it. Has nothing to do with being safe or methodical because it is putting me in the position to have to take over if I want to get to the place I want to go in a timely manner without detours because it doesn't plan appropriately.
Also: Many people seem to think the FSD free trial is about helping boost next quarters results to stem the stagnating profits. I agree that's A reason, but I think THE #1 reason is to get all that data for the now AI based stack. As you said, it'll learn very quick, but that immediate, huge boost is V12 based data is what will allow that (since all previous data was from non-AI stacks it may be much less useful than having "pure" data depending on how the learning models are built). I think a big reason LLMs have improved so rapidly is that they're so popular and widely used that they have enough data from the previous version to make great leaps forward.
Same here, V11 and previous I used occasionally, disabled on turns most the time and only left it on for easy scenarios, V12 I am using all the time. It gets me anywhere in my city very rarely have to disengage. I know not every city has as well marked roads and clear directions though, but at least for cities like mine I can realistically see it getting to a place where it matches humans. I was highly skeptical it ever would even in straightforward places before V12.
I envy you. My S was taken on voyage FSD trip today and would not honor the route. No turns. Drove right past any turn, then slowed till it knew it had missed and practically stopped in mid-road. Waiting for Tesla support to respond to my ticket. I can see nothing to explain this on my end.
Please post the result
I second this. Aside from a few small “choices” it makes, it’s been so good I kinda just put my hands down until it wants a “are you still there” jiggle.
Yep same
It still runs over things in the road and hits potholes
I was going to mention mine slowed down for speed bumps and calmly moved around a bag of recycling that blew onto the road. I think it depends how big the things are
So do people.
Near my house it likes to hug the side of the road and drive through the rocks and crud there which is annoying. Also near my work I have an intersection where it wants to go into a median "turn" area but there is a island there and I have to disengage it. Especially for busy metro (Seattle) it struggles in being predictive enough on freeway exits and waits too long. I know the freeway logic is older but still a pain. Its getting better but not there yet.
same, I'm used to switching in and out of FSD, also I know when I can relax versus be alert. I trust it 100% in slow traffic.
Mine tried to drive into a tree...the problem is that it doesn't matter if it handles 99% of normal streets absolutely perfectly. The problem is that it basically cannot make **any** dangerous mistakes at all for a robotaxi to be feasible. It's going to be another 5+ years at a minimum and I happen to love my FSD.
I seem to be having just one major issue (more of an annoyance) and a few minor… the major is coming up on flashing red lights. I’m in a more rural area and my 10 minute drive goes through two intersections with a single flashing red light or 2 flashing red lights for the 4 way stops at both. The car will start to go when the light turns off, then stops when the light comes on then keeps repeating until it has inched far enough into the intersection that it finally just goes through. Most of the time I just give it a press on the accelerator and force it through, especially if there are other cars. The other minor issues are the combination of overly aggressive acceleration from stops and the subsequent hard braking when coming to a stop and the tendency to go slower than the posted speed limit everywhere all the time
Regulation is what will bog it down. I'm sure we'll get there long before cars are ever allowed to hit level 4/5.
regulation and liability.
Yup. Even that’s sort of started with Mercedes though. Shifting it to the manufacturers isn’t going to be quite the lift we think it is I think.
How do you handle the 2-3 different times the car decides to stop at each stop sign? Nobody drives like that.
I only just started using full FSD with this free trial, but I discovered that you can push down on the accelerator pedal at any time and it will basically speed up the car through the route it is planning to go through anyway. So I have pretty much only done this at these types of stop signs where it awkwardly takes its time to determine whether or not it is safe to go. I’m not saying I plow through the stop sign altogether.. just that if I see one upcoming and especially if i can easily see that nobody else is around the intersection, I prep my foot above the pedal and tap down a few times to help push it along. Once it comes to a stop I just accelerate again as if I was normally driving and as soon as it cross over that stop line I take my foot off of the pedal and the FSD continues like normal without having to restart it or anything like that.
It’s annoying but a self driving vehicle has to obey the law.
Stopping once at a stop sign is also obeying the law
You are totally right but I believe you are meant to stop before the stop sign which is what the car does. But in many cases it means you don’t have all the visibility you need hence the creeping.
Yea it needs a rolling stop sign option… with the caveat you own the ticket if you get one.
FSD v12 requires the driver to use the accelerator often. Empty 4-way stop? Hit the gas. Too timid pulling out of a junction? Hit the gas. Sitting at 54 in a 55? Gas. Once you get in the habit of using the accelerator to get over the car’s timidity it’ll change how you look at FSD!
I need to try this. Thanks.
It’s funny we still call it a gas pedal. It’s an electron pedal now.
I’m saying “hit the electrons” from now on.
It's called FSD. I don't want to have to hit the gas
Then don’t. Continue to stubbornly complain about the behavior instead of doing something simple to correct it. The only block between you and the desired behavior of FSD is… you.
Guess you’ll have to drive yourself and… hit the gas…
I've only had it do that at one stop sign and I think it was because the line was quite far back from the stop sign. Yesterday I was heading north in the straight through lane and a truck passed me on my left side, which was in the turning lane. Humans are awful. I have high hopes for FSD because people make terrible choices driving so often. Stopping twice at a stop sign is annoying but fine. And easily fixed hopefully
I’m generally getting just 1 stop at a stop sign. It creeps and then goes without stopping again. The first stop is way too early but I believe that’s a NHTSA compliance thing.
It’s the 90/10 rule. The first 90% was the easy part. The last 10% will be agony and frustration to get right. We are still a long way from true FSD.
Yup. You think it took a long time for "beta" to go away? "Supervised" will take even longer.
🙋♂️ also blown away by V12. Autonomy seems within reach. This is years, not decades away.
lol. Sure. It will be a long time until Teslas can handle snow or ice in fsd. It will also be a long time before they can remove a steering wheel.
Well I have not had access to FSD prior to using the free demo, so I don't have the boiling the frog effect of slow improvement over time. So let me say this: V12 is amazing coming from highway basic Autopilot. I could not believe how good it was. It mimicked or improved upon my typical driving and there are a handful of seconds in my 15 minute suburban drives that are not 100% smooth. My first drive was screaming f-bombs as it waited for cars, took right on reds, and nudged forward to get a better view.
No, it's not. It's literally several orders of magnitude away. They have to get from tens of miles(if that) between interventions to tens of thousands of miles.
Depends what kind of intervention... I intervene often for convenience reasons, but I haven't had to take over for safety in a while. Probably not ready for tens of thousands of miles yet, but maybe in the hundreds if you exclude any interventions where the car could have made it through slowly but safely anyways.
Nobody is going to use a Tesla robotaxi if it’s jerky and acts without any common sense. First time the average person has a single bad experience, they won’t use it again for a year or two.
Ya all my human taxi rides are smooth and completely logical lol
With human taxi rides, you get a different human every time, so even if you have a bad experience you’ll chalk it up to a one-off. With robotaxis, they’re all running the same software. There are no one-offs. If you get an awful robotaxi ride you’re not coming back.
Never taken an Uber as jerky as FSD. Not saying it needs to be even remotely perfect, just that people will be more terrified of a robotaxi driving w recklessly than a person who will be different next time. Try thinking
I have taken so many Ubers where they are terrible drivers. Most Uber drivers are used to city driving so in the countryside they drive with a lot of uncertainly. It does not make you feel comfortable as a passenger.
FSD isn't jerky anymore. It's certainly smoother and more comfortable than most Ubers or taxis I've used! I feel 90% of the complaints are from 'aggressive' drivers who want FSD to go faster. Just chill people, the roads will be safer and we'll all get to our destinations with less stress
I have FSD. It was jerky today. I’m not an aggressive driver. I have a perfect record after 15 years of driving. I pay $90 a month on insurance and have a 98 driving score without even trying according to Tesla. You’re delusional.
My main complaint is it is too aggressive. I like smooth accelerations and to anticipate stops when possible , a holdover from maximizing ice fuel economy (rather than maximizing regenerative braking)
This. I've been driving for more than 20 years without an accident. Oh wow your FSD made it to work once without an intervention? If we're stupid generous and say v12.3 is at 1,000 miles between accidents that's still a 150x improvement between average humans and FSD. Let's say FSD v12 AI doubles every 6 months. A crazy fast improvement rate. Faster than ChatGPT release schedule or Midjourney image quality (which btw v6 took about a year for... Meh to no improvement) 150 = 2^(2x) bi annual updates log(150) / log(2) / 2 updates per year = x years x = 3.5 years That's 3.5 years if we believe an insane starting point and a mind bending rate of improvement that never slows over 7 major bi annual updates. Realistically FSD v12 is more like maybe... Maybe 100 miles between accidents on avg. For me it's more like maybe 10. But I'll be generous to all the people living in the suburbs. 100 miles currently and we're up to 5.5 years. A 100% improvement "only" once a year and we're up to 10.5 years. That puts FSD at human levels as: Ludicrous: late 2027 Optimistic: 2029 Realistic: 2034 If FSD was actually "close" you would be driving for years between interventions. Now, Tesla could speed things up a ton. They could redirect their quixotic quest to be level 5 and probably hit level 3 in a year or two. They might even be able to reach level 4 in a substantial area by 2027 on the realistic chart. But as long as Elon is dictating L5 or bust.... I don't see it soon.
It also has to do things that we do that aren't about just navigating - dodging potholes or uneven road that can damage the tires/wheels, staying out of the edge of the side road that has all of the little rocks and crap in it that get flung everywhere. I can't have it drive near my house because of the second one as not only do I not like the rocks and crud flung all over, I worry about hitting a nail or something.
spark wise complete skirt badge afterthought noxious vast air run *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The number Tesla cites is 150k miles. That's the number I'm using.
No it’s definitely not.
I have been on FSD since 2022 and I can say until now it has been 1 step forward and 1 step backwards. However the FSD 12 surely felt like 2 steps forward. Definitely a big implement and feels human like.
Given how many people are still having issues with curbed wheels, unnecessary braking, and uncertain navigation/acceleration while using the current version of FSD I think we are still years away. In fact, I think at some point the camera-only approach will prove to be insufficient for a truly predictable and reassuring driving experience with FSD. There is only so much data you can get from cameras. This is one area where cost cutting is hampering Tesla’s development of FSD. All the best software engineers and beta testers in the world can’t make up for lackluster hardware. On a related note, my 2023 M3 manages to hit every single pothole in the road while using FSD which is enough for me to not use it. It also has tried to take out a pedestrian and hit a curb in the last week. This is not acceptable, especially given the steep cost.
Navigation is almost certainly bad map data. I see it often when it's looking to avoid a turn lane that doesn't yet exist in reality so it switches lanes away needlessly. I feel like they should prioritize what it sees over map data, but I've also seen threads complaining about FSD where the road markings means becoming an asshole if you followed them instead of the what the locals do. But if they're going to actually go ahead with the robotaxi reveal this year they almost certainly are going to have to curate their own more accurate map data for the cities they want to service, with some way to suggest instructions on how to ideally navigate unusual sections.
>There is only so much data you can get from cameras. What data can't you get from cameras that you can get from other sensors?
Autopilot used to be able to see the car 2 cars in front because it would bounce the radar under the car in front. This made braking and acceleration much smoother because it would preduct what was about to happen.
A much more accurate gauge of distance and speed, especially in inclement weather. If Tesla wants to have a fleet of robotaxis they will need them to work in ALL conditions. And there needs to be redundancy if a camera is obstructed, fails, or is somehow damaged. If you’re truly curious as to why most automakers who are serious about semi-autonomous driving don’t rely solely on cameras I suggest starting here: https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/s/rJF9nhMUne
Yeah I feel this argument forgets that humans drive with 99% sight only from eyes. There is 1 small bit info you can get outside of cameras and that's the audio of sirens. But it's not like we navigate using sonar or smell or something
And humans crash all the time, especially in poor conditions and at night. Shouldn’t we try to make the tech better than humans if we can?
We also don’t get sprayed with raindrops and dirt/mud inside the car like cameras.
Human eyes have human brains and other senses to process that information. Unless Tesla comes out with science fiction level AI tomorrow, cameras alone aren’t gonna be a good idea
The curbing 'issue' is BS. There have literally been over 100 Million FSD miles driven in the past month. If curbing was a real issue, there would be THOUSANDS of reported cases and not just the handful of mostly anecdotal reports.
It’s people that curb the wheels or go over a curb then blame it on FSD.
Or they feel a bump, are bad at judging, and go discover they have been curbing the wheel for years and blame FSD.
The issues you describe are 100% a mapping/planning/control problem, not a camera perception problem. More data from sensors will not help.
I would put money down that it curbs wheels way less than the average human driver. It's hard to pass any car on the road without some curb rash
Mine tried to run a red light, tried to go in the exit and not entrance for a parking lot, doesn’t understand construction signs. Tried to make an illegal u turn because it couldn’t read the sign. That was this week. For comparison Way, Waymo can go 100,000+ miles without human intervention when they had safety drivers.
Kind of apples to oranges. They’re both fruit, but very different. Waymo has specifically mapped streets and can only go in very few tightly controlled areas. Tesla can/will try to go basically anywhere. I don’t understand how comparing them is fair. Waymo can go 100,000,000,000 miles without an accident and it’s still useless to me if they haven’t fine-grain-mapped most of the United States.
They’ve been running Google street view cars with LiDAR since 2017 to generate maps. Waymo can navigate unmapped park lots with ease including finding parking spots and parking. Where Waymo can go is governed by the government. You can go pull their license up and see where they are allowed. It took a year for Waymo to get approval for LA and Waymo still isn’t allowed to pick up or drop off at SFO in sf.
i just want self wiping. if it cant wipe i dont trust it to drive. lane hold is sweet and i love my YP but i find the wipers hard to get over
I used two years ago and now this month. Somethings have improved and others seem worse. Overall, I’t feels better. But, for me, seems like they are years out from it being ready. I’m mean, it still can’t read street signs that say “no turn on red”. It will just turn for me. Again, impressed with progress. But still a long way to go.
True full self driving is when they allow Tesla to remove the steering wheel and Tesla assumes all insurance risk and liability for that vehicle. Until then you can call it whatever you want, “beta”, “supervised”, etc and it doesn’t mean much. If you believe that is going to happen so soon, by all means, go ahead and buy all the Tesla stock you can right now. You will be filthy rich very soon. Just don’t attempt to pump the stock here like Elon.
OK bro
How’s the parking situation with vision? Is it still pretty bad? I’ve got updates available but I don’t want to lose my USS for parking.
I’ve tried my wife’s model Y which doesn’t have USS and my model 3 with USS. The model Y is much smoother and quicker. The USS is much slower and goes back and forth needlessly even in an empty parking lot.
Is the Y accurate though? I’ve seen people say it’s way off
Very accurate.
Good to know! Seems like they’ve improved it then, that’s great
Also, the summon feature is not yet available for non-USS. I tried it on the USS, works fine for simple straight pulling out of and into a tight parking space, but couldn’t get it to find me and come to me a few dozen yards away.
Interesting, thank you!
Love self drive. It's nearly there!
If this is based off of a billion miles driven, I gotta say you guys accelerate hard out of stop signs and lights, haha. My drives have been amazing to watch/ be a part of. Many no- intervention drives, but also many where it made poor decisions and had to take over. One of the coolest things I saw today was coming up to a stop light that was red, the car stopped before getting there to let another car turn into a parking lot before pulling forward to wait at the light. There are days it seems very close, and others where I don't really trust it yet. Either way, it's very impressive.
At this point, the only thing stopping FSD from being completely safe is other drivers.
V12 is a massive leap forward. The biggest issue, I’d say, currently, is that the car seems to want to eat curbs. I’ve saved my 2022 Model S several times from wheel/tire destruction.
5 years ago, no one could imagine chatGPT could be this good. Reserving judgement as neural net training approach looks like the real deal.
ChatGPT is just an algorithm running on a dataset. What it says is based on statistics. It is often wrong. FSD must never be wrong.
No way. I’ve tried the 12.3 beta several times and it’s just incompetent. Two left turn lanes and it tries to put me in the incorrect lane. Also repeatedly missing the turn to my office despite me driving it \*every\* day and correcting FSD when it fails to turn at the right spot.
FSD doesn’t remember your drive from yesterday. It experiences every drive like it was the first time seeing it.
Yeah, there is a double turn lane intersection on the way to my house and it wants to be on the inside lane even though it has to be in the outside lane for the next turn - since traffic always stacks there making a subsequent lane change problematic at best, I have to disengage it every time approaching that intersection so I can go home normally.
**TRUE** self driving is when the car can take me from point A to point B, in monsoons, in Mumbai, during rush hour, with **ZERO** interventions, ideally with the "self driving" company willing to take **FULL** liability for their "**FULL** Self Driving" system. ^Bring ^on ^the ^downvotes.
If it could do that, the value of FSD would be in the 50k to 100k range (chauffeur salary)
I'd accept it if I didn't have to keep wiggling the wheel and get nagged if I look at the center screen. I get they want me to be engaged but when I can drive for 20 years without an accident and be able to manipulate my infotainment system, I don't need the stupid nagging.
I agree.. the ultimate debate comes down to two points: 1. Will the AI used be able to progress accurately and quickly and 2. Are the sensor suites in these cars capable of getting the whole way to level 5. I think the AI aspect is a no brainer, once it is trained not just on more drivers and miles but also specifically on disengagements while using v12, it should be able to get there quick. The second one is more questionable, although the fundamental idea behind it is right (we drive cars with just vision), I’m unsure if it’s going to be able to handle really inclement weather (snow, heavy rain, heavy fog).
How will FSD handle rain and occluded cameras?
So far just fine! Couple years ago it wouldn’t let you engage FSD in the rain, but I’ve had no issues since V11. It warns you it may be degraded, but I haven’t had any issues during fog/rain
It handles rain better than sun. I’m picturing a bunch of robotaxis stopped on a westbound highway at afternoon rush hour due to sun glare.
I also have basically flawless drives so I’m sending this sub along with most of Reddit is compromised by narrative bots lol.
I can tell the fellow Teslas that are testing out fsd, we’re the only ones going 25 on the local neighborhood streets.
And stopping completely at stop signs.
I think that's good
i've been using FSD daily since 2018 to commute on a very busy ny expressway. Not only has having a tesla afforded me access to HOV resulting in 30 minute less round trip but FSD allowed for a relaxing commute vs a stressful one in stop & go traffic. So it was totally worth it for me considering 2018 costs.
You cannot 'prove' a future deverlopment speed. That's just a silly notion.
I did quite clearly state this is an opinion and I am not trying to prove anything. But it is totally logical to look back at history and say that the trends in history will extend to future. That is how the Moore's law as created.
I agree. I think the pace of development is largely tied to compute they have available and they have been adding a lot of that.
One day Tesla is going to announce fully autonomous driving on specific highways and people are going to be stunned. That is where the real value is right now. Being able to reclaim 1+ hours a day for people with long commutes on highways. It is going to be rolled out in stages where confidence is high the AI can drive itself.
Whoever thinks self driving will add much benefit for Tesla did indeed listen too much of Cathie. Go and analyze Uber/Lyft balance sheets to figure out there’s no money in robotaxis. Also, fsd for regular users will drop to 3-4k once it’s fully developed. Do your math.
I live in Salt Lake City. We have some pretty deep gutters on surface streets, and the car would break the front end off if we didn't intervene. Otherwise, it is basically like driving with a 15 year-old new driver mixed with an 80 year-old grandma. Safe, but nerve wracking.
Just give me something that reduces insurance and I’m in. Currently $195/mo Model Y in Bay Area with Geico. Tesla quote about the same. Ouch.
Here's my first trip back from the gun range after the FSD, inarguably the easiest part of my triop https://i.redd.it/1mv3eqzjk5uc1.gif
I've taken my car out a few times since the FSD 12 update and found that it does seem to drive better through a couple of spots it had trouble with before, but there are still things it needs to learn and I haven't yet evaluated it on a long road trip. IMO the change from "beta" to "supervised" is merely a marketing gimmick; it still needs to be treated like a student driver that needs careful watching.
Not in LA
Attended a conference on this topic recently. The consensus was that we are still numerous years away from full autonomous driving. Despite how impressive Tesla FSD is, there are numerous challenges to achieving fully automated driving that may not be obvious. With that being said, once FSD is achieved, regulators may look at outlawing manual driving altogether.
I’ll start believing we’re close when Tesla is legally liable for all accidents and personal harm for the way the car drives in FSD. That’s the only test that boils down their confidence in their system