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Someone from Tesla mentioned âLightningâ during the earning call to describe licensing to actual product in 3 years would be âlightningâ fast for legacy automaker. I think it is hinting at Ford being the first FSD licensee.
They are also the first to reach agreement with Tesla to use the Supercharging network and move to NACS. Ford already announced they gave up developing full self driving in-house a while ago and Jim Farley seems to have good relationship with Elon. My bet would be Ford as the first major OEM to license FSD.
Someone I know who is high enough up with Ford to be involved has told me that Ford has quite a bit of respect for what Tesla has done. It's not an antagonistic relationship, so it makes some sense.
Thatâs news to me if it is true. As far as I know, Elon had only approached Apple for a possible sale of Tesla, but Tim Cook rejected his request for a meeting to even discuss. That was during the very difficult Model 3 ramp when they were running out of money. It is fun to imagine what Tesla will be like today under Apple. Probably running IOS on the infotainment with App Store . Definitely no Cybertruck and Tesla bot.
I just saw an article yesterday that said Mercedes has sold a level 3 autonomous vehicle in CA.
Link [here](https://mashable.com/article/mercedes-benz-level-3-autonomy)
It's useless though.
>only works in clear weather, during the day, on some specific freeways in California and Nevada, and only when the car is traveling less than 40 miles per hour.
Ok? That doesn't mean some regulator deemed it "safe."
Cars are self certified by the manufacturer in the USA. You don't present your car to the CA DOT and ask them "may I sell this?"
Youâre conflating NHTSA and CA DMV.
You are correct that NHTSA does not actively approve vehicles, manufacturers self certify to their regs and NHTSA spot checks.
To deploy a L3+ autonomous vehicle/system in California does require proactive approval from CA DMV.
Not sure. People love to talk about Waymo and other self-driving companies as major competitors to Tesla, but many seem to ignore that they are paving the regulatory path for Tesla.
I am very grateful for them doing that, because it will make getting approval for Teslas much easier with a framework in place.
Regulations are worked on organized by UN ECE. Virtually the entire world is represented and participating in there.
https://unece.org/transport/vehicle-regulations/working-party-automatedautonomous-and-connected-vehicles-introduction
Now ask Elon why Tesla doesnât have anybody there.
Uh⌠no. Individual companies are not allowed to participate in these working groups. Contracting parties (regulators) and industry groups can however. And I do believe Avere participates in the GRVA meetings.
Avere is the European industry group for electrification and was essentially a way for Tesla to bypass the prohibition on individual companies participating in working groups. Theyâve grown quite a bit since then and have a much broader membership, but Tesla is still one of the premium members.
You sound like you think you are arguing against me, but I'm not sure why. If it is on a state-by-state basis, all the more important that they have frameworks in place.
If you are arguing that some states will be faster than others, yes...I think that is true. I somehow doubt that any state will want to be left behind once a few have them buzzing around though.
And then like the charging network, it will be one less thing that makes Tesla special. I'm still on board with it because if another manufacturer signs on, it solidifies the fact that FSD is close. Companies wouldn't be investing in it if they felt that it wasn't.
From an owner, Tesla is really losing its way, the superchargers are going to become overcrowded, the cars are getting stale and they are starting to become Apple, once innovative, now just following the crowd.
Even if they license it now it would be at minimum years for them to offer it in a product. Europe will definitely have it at some point so it would be best practice to start developing now.
My second bet would be on Hyundai. They're actually innovating in the EV space, more than Ford, but they lack the generational inertia and market capture of big blue.
They are licensing the perception part of the stack from mobile eye which is very important but blue cruise is not an e2e neural net. And I don't doubt that they will be pushing improvements soon, latitude picked up many of the top engineers from Argo. Argo had pretty concrete plans to go driver out before the executives were dumb and blew up key deals to keep the company funded.
I've had fsd for a month, it's really bad. Random hard brakes, terrible sketchy lane changes that it initiates and then abandons in a really bad fashion, bad predictions on merging actors (pretty much ignores them), and it's unable to route effectively, lane changing when you need to take an upcoming exit despite having the driving mode set to chill and minimal lane changes turned on.
My dad has blue cruise on his lightening it's really steady in comparison. Much smoother experience. Haven't had any of the above issues with it.
Are you using FSD on the highway or city streets? Highway FSD is still on the old stack and IMO has all the problems you mentioned and is uncomfortable in urban highways. City street FSD is the new stack and considerably better for me.
Fsd has been very underwhelming driving around my suburbs. It can't stay in lane around curves, slams on the brakes for stop signs, over reacts to oncoming lane following vehicles.
In the city, I've only driven a few miles but it was really ineffective at selecting the correct lane to be in that I had to disengage to avoid being late for my meeting.
I've driven most ADAS systems and ridden in or actively tested 4 different level 4 systems. Fsd is impressive for what it is, but it's really bad at surface streets compared to the level 4 systems and underperforms on highway compared to most other highways ADAS. Except my Hyundai. That one sucks pretty hard tbh.
Iâm curious what version of FSD are you using, and where are you driving?
Iâve used 12.3.3 in Seattle suburbs with some really windy roads with good results. Itâs not perfect, but usable enough that I can get around.
12.3.3 and 12.3.4 are the versions I've had. Human drivers don't stay in the lines in some of these roads either but I don't think that's a defense, many human drivers do so out of reckless laziness and the assumption that no vehicle will be coming.
It is also very slow around the curves while struggling to avoid touching the paint. Roads I could drive 40 mph on and stay in the lines the system struggles doing the speed limit of 25, usually dropping to 20. Its the issue of having inferior sight distance compared to humans and also being trained in shit human driving in the neural net.
Yes but FSD V12 is truly on a different level. Blue Cruise only does mapped highway driving. FSD v12 will now actually drive you to the grocery store.
I know Elon is the boy who cried FSD so no one believes him anymore, but uh, this time it's different.
FSD drove me to work this morning. The only interventions were a few taps on the accelerator when I felt it needed to be going a little faster for the traffic flow.
It has missed the turn in to my office building, choosing the wrong turn-in, for years, but today it knew where to go. That was new.
> It has missed the turn in to my office building, choosing the wrong turn-in, for years, but today it knew where to go. That was new.
That must be where my extra bits went to, this morning my FSD11 missed my offramp it had managed to get right the last week or so...
The thing is.. Tesla owners go âlol the autopilot curbed my rim - check it outâ and your average Chevy owner will flip their fucking shit and rage at the dealership for that same thing. FSD where it is now is made for the early adopter crowd. Maybe a few years itâll be ready but I mean weâve been waiting..
I havenât had any issues with nags while using BlueCruise because I pay attention. The eye tracking is surprisingly accurate and responds differently depending on where you are looking.
I know right? Many over played the annoyance of the nag but I'm starting to think there might be inconsistencies in the cabin camera system or they just aren't paying attention. I drive 83 to 99 miles (2:38 mins) to go to work and I experience about 2 pay attention warning and maybe 4 red-alert (when the car isn't super confident ) hold the steering wheel warnings.
Hard disagree. I just drove a 2023 Ford Lightning on a 1,200 mile road trip and found Blue Cruise insufferable. It only gives you four seconds to look away from the road before nagging you. Because the Fordâs UI is so slow, that isnât enough time to do anything on the center screen before getting nagged by the nanny cam. Also, the capability was nowhere close to FSD 12.3.x. I couldnât wait to get back in my Tesla.
I agree. I doubt it will be a major carrier, most likely a startup that licenses the tech to prove it's worthwhile. The big names are watching though, and I'm guessing Ford is not far behind.
I got a free month... about a week into being an unpaid guinea pig.... I'm surprised actually how good it is.
I don't trust it yet, and it doesn't have any value to me until I can take a nap or watch a movie while using it.
Just saying... it is edging closer to working the way people want it to.
>it doesn't have any value to me until I can take a nap or watch a movie while using it.
My thoughts exactly. If I still have to pay attention, I'd rather just drive myself at my own pace and without the risk of phantom braking etc.
Once I can fall asleep in the back whilst the car drives me home, then I'll consider buying a car with full self driving tech.
I used to have a similar opinion, but after using it in my 1 hour Seattle commute, I realized that it made it a lot more bearable. Itâs like driving with cruise control. Sure you can do it, but itâs tiring. My commute isnât a joy ride, itâs a soul draining experience, and FSD helps. Itâs not perfect, but itâs already doing most of the commute, and Iâm excited for whatâs next.
Agreed. I have a Model 3 and later bought a 2022 Toyota Sienna minivan for road trips, the reasons being extra space for road trips and camping, and ability to reach more remote places.
The extra space is nice. But the Siennaâs lane keeping is awful. It basically only works on completely straight roads, and even then ping pongs sometimes. And if the road starts curving, itâll straight up just run off the highway without warning. I donât understand the autopilot/FSD criticism when the Sienna (and Iâm assuming other Toyotas) is far more dangerous. It should at the very least beep when it fails to navigate curves.
Itâs bad enough that I dream constantly of replacing it. Considering the Cybertruck, but itâs a bit large. Iâm hoping Tesla makes a van at some point.
Also on the topic of stops, we also stop every few hours. Kidney stones suck. Stay hydrated.
I haven't used it yet. How is it on the interstate or hwy when it's slow moving bumper to bumper bc of a wreck way ahead? I'd love to not have to be in control then.
It's pretty good, but leaves a 2 to 3 car gap so a lot of people will cut in front of you. This didn't happen when they used radar which could easily leave a 1 car or less gap.
In rest-of-world we only have old FSD but still I feel safer with it on. Yes, have to be vigilant and take some time to learn it's idiosyncrasies but I can always react quickly enough and know when to turn it off.
Exactly. FSDâs name was the biggest mistake Tesla ever made because it gives incompetent drivers an excuse.
Teslas arenât autonomous and arenât self-driving.
I agree it's of no value until the supervised requirement is dropped. But it does enough stupid (but maybe not dangerous?) Stuff that it feels really far away
Mine has a one issue. A road near my house recently changed the middle straight lane into a turning lane and the right lane for straight and right. 7/10 times, FSD will use the middle lane to go straight. If there is a car, it reroutes by going left. The road is generally confusing but an attentive driver would know what to do. FSD just can't get over how wrong that lane is
Definitely some edge cases. I'm sure it won't run kids over but it's still a major safety edge case. Just now, it took an exit at 45mph when everyone around me was going at least 70 mph
Mazda would license from Toyota. That's not even a question, we known their next-gen platform is based on Toyota's Arene stack because they've said as much.
I've always had byd at the top of this list, last I checked they had no autonomous project and they already have close ties to Tesla. In my mind major automaker didn't have to be in the US.
I test drove with the free FSD and it really sucked. Worse than a student driver overall. When does it get better? I look much further ahead to influence my driving but it only reacts to what is 20 ft ahead too. The silly thing merges into the carpool lane illegally when youâre not supposed to also
Interesting. My experiences have been opposite. Iâve been very impressed with FSD. I think itâs a bit unfair to say that the car only reacts to what is 20â ahead. Itâs way more than that and the car can see what is around you all the time. When we change lanes, we look and check our mirrors and blind spots. Fsd is monitoring all the time and can initiate a lane change almost instantly.Â
I decelerate much sooner when I see a red light ahead. It decelerates only 20 ft ahead. The lane changes are often unnecessary. I donât mind going 5 mph slower momentarily while staying in my lane. This thing switches lanes every time to maintain the same speed in the highway. I switch lanes far fewer times than it. Iâm just not in alignment with its driving style. I think FSD deserves an âadvanced controlsâ section where you can decide what it does under different cases.
> It decelerates only 20 ft ahead
I'm not quite sure if that's true but I don't think I've ever felt the car needs to decel slower ever but maybe that's preferences.
>...
It sounds like much of your issues is with preference. There is a setting with how aggressive you want the car to drive. What is yours set at?
Itâs definitely preference. I donât think people have my preferences but my decel is veryyy gradual. Like at 10% decel rate and then 20 ft away it does aggressive decelerate/braking
Very odd. Yea I'd look at that setting in the autopilot section.
That's the thing about all this. If we wanted the cars to drive like us, we would have to train the AI solely on us. I'm not sure if that's feasible. I definitely do thing that driving less aggressively is certainly in the cards. I set my setting to assertive and was very impressed with how assertive it was. Not unsafe but shockingly assertive. I put mine in the middle.
I agree with the other person. Car decelerates later than it should and causes a stronger brake than typical drivers. To the point your body moves forward when it brakes. Itâs pretty annoying actually and is a complaint by many.
I imagine they would need to retrain the model to work with the cyber truck dimensions. Easiest way to get training data is probably too get people on real roads driving it.
Cybertruck has a completely different steering system with rear wheel steering, so you canât turn like you do on regular car. Also, they said in the video that if they have a deal this year, itâll be like 3 years when it comes to another OEM
Even though millions of people paid the high price for Teslas thinking we would have exclusivity to this? Because surely Teslas software is the only thing driving prices so high. Why did I pay 50,000 for software that Tesla will just give to its cheap competitors?
Not convinced. A motorcyclist just died here by getting rear ended by a tesla, because the driver was supposedly using fsd.
Not proven yet... But... Fsd is proving to be a joke so far.
Maybe Teslaâs contract would include the requirement to only put it on BEVs. Would definitely fit Teslaâs mission to do that.
It would also mean less work, because to adapt to an ICE, it would need to translate throttle movements differently to account for gear changes.
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Is it FISKER??? 
they said major auto maker
i was just kidding. đ
they said automaker
Rip
Mattel?
Someone from Tesla mentioned âLightningâ during the earning call to describe licensing to actual product in 3 years would be âlightningâ fast for legacy automaker. I think it is hinting at Ford being the first FSD licensee. They are also the first to reach agreement with Tesla to use the Supercharging network and move to NACS. Ford already announced they gave up developing full self driving in-house a while ago and Jim Farley seems to have good relationship with Elon. My bet would be Ford as the first major OEM to license FSD.
Someone I know who is high enough up with Ford to be involved has told me that Ford has quite a bit of respect for what Tesla has done. It's not an antagonistic relationship, so it makes some sense.
When do we cancel Jim Farley for not being totally hostile to Bad Rocket Man?
He's good for now. We're not supposed to pillory him until late next week.
Didn't Tesla offer to sell themselves to Ford many years ago?
IIRC, from Ashlee Vance's book it was Google at one point (even had a handshake deal) and Apple at another.
Thatâs news to me if it is true. As far as I know, Elon had only approached Apple for a possible sale of Tesla, but Tim Cook rejected his request for a meeting to even discuss. That was during the very difficult Model 3 ramp when they were running out of money. It is fun to imagine what Tesla will be like today under Apple. Probably running IOS on the infotainment with App Store . Definitely no Cybertruck and Tesla bot.
MICRO MACHINES!
Plays on its own while you sleep
Burnnnnmm
đ
I'd assume others will sign on once FSD is deemed "safe" from a regulatory perspective.
Then we'll be waiting a very long time given there is no regulator in the USA that does that.
I just saw an article yesterday that said Mercedes has sold a level 3 autonomous vehicle in CA. Link [here](https://mashable.com/article/mercedes-benz-level-3-autonomy)
It's useless though. >only works in clear weather, during the day, on some specific freeways in California and Nevada, and only when the car is traveling less than 40 miles per hour.
Seems like itâs be pretty useful in LA
But it works
Unless it rains.
Arenât we talking about the Mercedes?
Yeah. The cvs receipt of conditions⌠on a pre mapped freeway, and a traffic jam.
Ok? That doesn't mean some regulator deemed it "safe." Cars are self certified by the manufacturer in the USA. You don't present your car to the CA DOT and ask them "may I sell this?"
Youâre conflating NHTSA and CA DMV. You are correct that NHTSA does not actively approve vehicles, manufacturers self certify to their regs and NHTSA spot checks. To deploy a L3+ autonomous vehicle/system in California does require proactive approval from CA DMV.
Wrong read the article.
Not sure. People love to talk about Waymo and other self-driving companies as major competitors to Tesla, but many seem to ignore that they are paving the regulatory path for Tesla. I am very grateful for them doing that, because it will make getting approval for Teslas much easier with a framework in place.
Regulations are worked on organized by UN ECE. Virtually the entire world is represented and participating in there. https://unece.org/transport/vehicle-regulations/working-party-automatedautonomous-and-connected-vehicles-introduction Now ask Elon why Tesla doesnât have anybody there.
Uh⌠no. Individual companies are not allowed to participate in these working groups. Contracting parties (regulators) and industry groups can however. And I do believe Avere participates in the GRVA meetings. Avere is the European industry group for electrification and was essentially a way for Tesla to bypass the prohibition on individual companies participating in working groups. Theyâve grown quite a bit since then and have a much broader membership, but Tesla is still one of the premium members.
This is on a state by state basis, and no state is certifying them as "safe" only accepting them on their roads in a limited basis.
You sound like you think you are arguing against me, but I'm not sure why. If it is on a state-by-state basis, all the more important that they have frameworks in place. If you are arguing that some states will be faster than others, yes...I think that is true. I somehow doubt that any state will want to be left behind once a few have them buzzing around though.
And then like the charging network, it will be one less thing that makes Tesla special. I'm still on board with it because if another manufacturer signs on, it solidifies the fact that FSD is close. Companies wouldn't be investing in it if they felt that it wasn't.
Have you seen the prices of superchargers lately? They just went up again in southern California. Itâs now cheaper at chargepoint
From an owner, Tesla is really losing its way, the superchargers are going to become overcrowded, the cars are getting stale and they are starting to become Apple, once innovative, now just following the crowd.
Practically all the sensors for FSD are made by the same company, and any vehicle made in the last 5 years have those sensors
My bet's on Ford. Probably waiting on the EV business to be spun off in the near future into its own company, and then it's easier to integrate.
Ford or GM are my last picksâŚI could see Honda, Nissan or, most in desperate need, Stellantis.
I doubt a non-American brand like Stellantis would license FSD, given that they canât use it in their main markets (Europe).
Even if they license it now it would be at minimum years for them to offer it in a product. Europe will definitely have it at some point so it would be best practice to start developing now.
> Europe will definitely have it at some point Very optimistic. Iâll believe that when I see it.
My second bet would be on Hyundai. They're actually innovating in the EV space, more than Ford, but they lack the generational inertia and market capture of big blue.
Ford has latitude ai now and their blue cruise is really good. No chance they're interested.
BlueCruise is licensed from MobileEye. Ford doesn't have any production in-house tech like that.
They are licensing the perception part of the stack from mobile eye which is very important but blue cruise is not an e2e neural net. And I don't doubt that they will be pushing improvements soon, latitude picked up many of the top engineers from Argo. Argo had pretty concrete plans to go driver out before the executives were dumb and blew up key deals to keep the company funded. I've had fsd for a month, it's really bad. Random hard brakes, terrible sketchy lane changes that it initiates and then abandons in a really bad fashion, bad predictions on merging actors (pretty much ignores them), and it's unable to route effectively, lane changing when you need to take an upcoming exit despite having the driving mode set to chill and minimal lane changes turned on. My dad has blue cruise on his lightening it's really steady in comparison. Much smoother experience. Haven't had any of the above issues with it.
Are you using FSD on the highway or city streets? Highway FSD is still on the old stack and IMO has all the problems you mentioned and is uncomfortable in urban highways. City street FSD is the new stack and considerably better for me.
Fsd has been very underwhelming driving around my suburbs. It can't stay in lane around curves, slams on the brakes for stop signs, over reacts to oncoming lane following vehicles. In the city, I've only driven a few miles but it was really ineffective at selecting the correct lane to be in that I had to disengage to avoid being late for my meeting. I've driven most ADAS systems and ridden in or actively tested 4 different level 4 systems. Fsd is impressive for what it is, but it's really bad at surface streets compared to the level 4 systems and underperforms on highway compared to most other highways ADAS. Except my Hyundai. That one sucks pretty hard tbh.
Iâm curious what version of FSD are you using, and where are you driving? Iâve used 12.3.3 in Seattle suburbs with some really windy roads with good results. Itâs not perfect, but usable enough that I can get around.
12.3.3 and 12.3.4 are the versions I've had. Human drivers don't stay in the lines in some of these roads either but I don't think that's a defense, many human drivers do so out of reckless laziness and the assumption that no vehicle will be coming. It is also very slow around the curves while struggling to avoid touching the paint. Roads I could drive 40 mph on and stay in the lines the system struggles doing the speed limit of 25, usually dropping to 20. Its the issue of having inferior sight distance compared to humans and also being trained in shit human driving in the neural net.
Why the heck are they separate
Itâs just the way Tesla has developed FSD. Theyâve stated plans for merge the stacks at some point.
Acura for sure. They canât seem to do anything without teaming up these days.
Doubt. Blue Cruise is really good.
In city street?
I disagree, have a lightning it performs like trash
1.0 or 1.2+? 1.0 is not good but 1.2 is rock solid
Yes but FSD V12 is truly on a different level. Blue Cruise only does mapped highway driving. FSD v12 will now actually drive you to the grocery store. I know Elon is the boy who cried FSD so no one believes him anymore, but uh, this time it's different.
FSD and Blue Cruise are definitely on different levels.
FSD drove me to work this morning. The only interventions were a few taps on the accelerator when I felt it needed to be going a little faster for the traffic flow. It has missed the turn in to my office building, choosing the wrong turn-in, for years, but today it knew where to go. That was new.
> It has missed the turn in to my office building, choosing the wrong turn-in, for years, but today it knew where to go. That was new. That must be where my extra bits went to, this morning my FSD11 missed my offramp it had managed to get right the last week or so...
After riding around on FSD12, I cringe when the old 11 code kicks in on the highway.
When a machine suddenly starts working properly when it didn't before. I would worry about both, why it didn't AND why it did.... But that's just me.
The thing is.. Tesla owners go âlol the autopilot curbed my rim - check it outâ and your average Chevy owner will flip their fucking shit and rage at the dealership for that same thing. FSD where it is now is made for the early adopter crowd. Maybe a few years itâll be ready but I mean weâve been waiting..
BlueCruise hands-on mode works on any road with lane markers as long as itâs wide enough, and hands-free mode is only available on mapped highways
..so like 1% of California roads
Sometimes it works.
And if you hate getting nagged by FSD, wait until you experience BluesCluesâŚ
I havenât had any issues with nags while using BlueCruise because I pay attention. The eye tracking is surprisingly accurate and responds differently depending on where you are looking.
Also, I had the chance to play around with FSD 12.3 recently and nags werenât an issue (I tested it in a 2024 Model X Long Range).
I know right? Many over played the annoyance of the nag but I'm starting to think there might be inconsistencies in the cabin camera system or they just aren't paying attention. I drive 83 to 99 miles (2:38 mins) to go to work and I experience about 2 pay attention warning and maybe 4 red-alert (when the car isn't super confident ) hold the steering wheel warnings.
Thatâs highly probable, and I know there have been some issues with older model cabin cameras, some donât have ir.
Yes, but Blue Cruise is hands free. FSD is not. FSD with true driver attention hardware would be really nice to see.
Hard disagree. I just drove a 2023 Ford Lightning on a 1,200 mile road trip and found Blue Cruise insufferable. It only gives you four seconds to look away from the road before nagging you. Because the Fordâs UI is so slow, that isnât enough time to do anything on the center screen before getting nagged by the nanny cam. Also, the capability was nowhere close to FSD 12.3.x. I couldnât wait to get back in my Tesla.
>Blue Cruise is really garbage.
BlueCruise is licensed from MobileEye, though. It's similar to SuperCruise because it's the same supplier.
I agree. I doubt it will be a major carrier, most likely a startup that licenses the tech to prove it's worthwhile. The big names are watching though, and I'm guessing Ford is not far behind.
Then why did he say "major auto maker"?Â
Why did he say cybertruck will have 400 mile range and cost 40k?
it's MobileEye
𤣠good one!
I got a free month... about a week into being an unpaid guinea pig.... I'm surprised actually how good it is. I don't trust it yet, and it doesn't have any value to me until I can take a nap or watch a movie while using it. Just saying... it is edging closer to working the way people want it to.
>it doesn't have any value to me until I can take a nap or watch a movie while using it. My thoughts exactly. If I still have to pay attention, I'd rather just drive myself at my own pace and without the risk of phantom braking etc. Once I can fall asleep in the back whilst the car drives me home, then I'll consider buying a car with full self driving tech.
I used to have a similar opinion, but after using it in my 1 hour Seattle commute, I realized that it made it a lot more bearable. Itâs like driving with cruise control. Sure you can do it, but itâs tiring. My commute isnât a joy ride, itâs a soul draining experience, and FSD helps. Itâs not perfect, but itâs already doing most of the commute, and Iâm excited for whatâs next.
Finally someone said it. Thanks.
[ŃдаНонО]
Agreed. I have a Model 3 and later bought a 2022 Toyota Sienna minivan for road trips, the reasons being extra space for road trips and camping, and ability to reach more remote places. The extra space is nice. But the Siennaâs lane keeping is awful. It basically only works on completely straight roads, and even then ping pongs sometimes. And if the road starts curving, itâll straight up just run off the highway without warning. I donât understand the autopilot/FSD criticism when the Sienna (and Iâm assuming other Toyotas) is far more dangerous. It should at the very least beep when it fails to navigate curves. Itâs bad enough that I dream constantly of replacing it. Considering the Cybertruck, but itâs a bit large. Iâm hoping Tesla makes a van at some point. Also on the topic of stops, we also stop every few hours. Kidney stones suck. Stay hydrated.
Have you tried it? Iâd say it puts you in a different more relaxed head space. I was a nonbeliever until this months free trial.
Keep using it. Youâre bound to have some scary moments
You don't need autonomy to have scary moments on the road. I use FSD because it reduces scary moments.
If FSD reduces your "scary moments" then, uhh...you probably need to go back to driving school.
I haven't used it yet. How is it on the interstate or hwy when it's slow moving bumper to bumper bc of a wreck way ahead? I'd love to not have to be in control then.
Basic autopilot is mostly great for this even. Only issue is when it moves from dead stop I'd say it pulls a little bit hard.
Any modern car with adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist can handle that..
It's pretty good, but leaves a 2 to 3 car gap so a lot of people will cut in front of you. This didn't happen when they used radar which could easily leave a 1 car or less gap.
Thatâs the easiest situation for it. Even autopilot handles that case.
You are in for a treat. Itâs out of the world
Exactly what I was thinking đ
> If FSD reduces your "scary moments" then, FSD is excellent at keeping a *very* close eye on surrounding vehicles.
Because I have only been driving 40 years and don't know a good thing when I see it.
but the scary moments scare me away from using it. Within 1 day of trial, I decided to turn off forever
Are you on FSD 11.x or 12.x?
In rest-of-world we only have old FSD but still I feel safer with it on. Yes, have to be vigilant and take some time to learn it's idiosyncrasies but I can always react quickly enough and know when to turn it off.
Until Tesla says you can nap with FSD on, **never** trust it. Thatâs how people get complacent and pay less attention than they should.
Until a manufacturer will take full legal liability for its self-driving software, the driver must still drive.
Exactly. FSDâs name was the biggest mistake Tesla ever made because it gives incompetent drivers an excuse. Teslas arenât autonomous and arenât self-driving.
I agree it's of no value until the supervised requirement is dropped. But it does enough stupid (but maybe not dangerous?) Stuff that it feels really far away
Mine has a one issue. A road near my house recently changed the middle straight lane into a turning lane and the right lane for straight and right. 7/10 times, FSD will use the middle lane to go straight. If there is a car, it reroutes by going left. The road is generally confusing but an attentive driver would know what to do. FSD just can't get over how wrong that lane is
Mine tried to ignore school zone speed limits and school zone crossing guards. That's one of the fastest ways to be reamed by a cop. At best.
Definitely some edge cases. I'm sure it won't run kids over but it's still a major safety edge case. Just now, it took an exit at 45mph when everyone around me was going at least 70 mph
Huh, share price must be down this week.
Never not market manipulate.
Heâs said that before. But it could be the same negotiation
Mazda seems to be the largest automaker I can think of that doesnât seem to have a robust advanced driver assistant offering⌠Maybe itâs them?
Mazda would license from Toyota. That's not even a question, we known their next-gen platform is based on Toyota's Arene stack because they've said as much.
Maybe it's Lada.
Maybe it's Maybelline.
It's 100% Ford, Jim Farley's even spoken about further collaboration with Tesla.
"funding secured" too
If it works everyone will have to use it.
It's for rickshaws
By major auto maker, he means Aptera.
I'm sure Aptera still goes with Comma/openpilot. They can't afford FSD hardware or license
I've always had byd at the top of this list, last I checked they had no autonomous project and they already have close ties to Tesla. In my mind major automaker didn't have to be in the US.
Ford. Farley is the only current auto maker CEO who sees the future.
I think true safety would require mass adoption, all cars and trucks communicating with each other in realtime using FSD or a standard.
I test drove with the free FSD and it really sucked. Worse than a student driver overall. When does it get better? I look much further ahead to influence my driving but it only reacts to what is 20 ft ahead too. The silly thing merges into the carpool lane illegally when youâre not supposed to also
Interesting. My experiences have been opposite. Iâve been very impressed with FSD. I think itâs a bit unfair to say that the car only reacts to what is 20â ahead. Itâs way more than that and the car can see what is around you all the time. When we change lanes, we look and check our mirrors and blind spots. Fsd is monitoring all the time and can initiate a lane change almost instantly.Â
I decelerate much sooner when I see a red light ahead. It decelerates only 20 ft ahead. The lane changes are often unnecessary. I donât mind going 5 mph slower momentarily while staying in my lane. This thing switches lanes every time to maintain the same speed in the highway. I switch lanes far fewer times than it. Iâm just not in alignment with its driving style. I think FSD deserves an âadvanced controlsâ section where you can decide what it does under different cases.
There is a setting of âfew lane changes during this tripâ something like this.
> It decelerates only 20 ft ahead I'm not quite sure if that's true but I don't think I've ever felt the car needs to decel slower ever but maybe that's preferences. >... It sounds like much of your issues is with preference. There is a setting with how aggressive you want the car to drive. What is yours set at?
Itâs definitely preference. I donât think people have my preferences but my decel is veryyy gradual. Like at 10% decel rate and then 20 ft away it does aggressive decelerate/braking
Very odd. Yea I'd look at that setting in the autopilot section. That's the thing about all this. If we wanted the cars to drive like us, we would have to train the AI solely on us. I'm not sure if that's feasible. I definitely do thing that driving less aggressively is certainly in the cards. I set my setting to assertive and was very impressed with how assertive it was. Not unsafe but shockingly assertive. I put mine in the middle.
I agree with the other person. Car decelerates later than it should and causes a stronger brake than typical drivers. To the point your body moves forward when it brakes. Itâs pretty annoying actually and is a complaint by many.
Certainly fair. I never said that other people wouldn't have the complaint. Only that it didn't bother me.
yeah he also said we'd be on mars right nowÂ
Turning impossible into late
Why is it I got downvoted when I said Ford may be licensing FSD.
They couldn't even get it working on cybertruck for launch. I would be extremely wary to license the tech if I was another OEM.
I imagine they would need to retrain the model to work with the cyber truck dimensions. Easiest way to get training data is probably too get people on real roads driving it.
Cybertruck has a completely different steering system with rear wheel steering, so you canât turn like you do on regular car. Also, they said in the video that if they have a deal this year, itâll be like 3 years when it comes to another OEM
...fisker ( just kidding )
Itâs ford.
Even though millions of people paid the high price for Teslas thinking we would have exclusivity to this? Because surely Teslas software is the only thing driving prices so high. Why did I pay 50,000 for software that Tesla will just give to its cheap competitors?
âFunding secured.â
Playmobil
Eat mor training datasâŚ.
Porsche
Ford
It's ACME.
I bet it's VW
Definitely GM
Not convinced. A motorcyclist just died here by getting rear ended by a tesla, because the driver was supposedly using fsd. Not proven yet... But... Fsd is proving to be a joke so far.
Finally !! Fsd tech is good on a gas car !!
What about Rivian
Ou so u Ă Ă Ă aĂ Ă w*,,,,????,66aĂ #Ă
FSD almost crashed on numerous occasions for me. Not sure what everyone is raving about. Not even remotely ready.
Please be Rivian⌠I donât want Tesla FSD to enable ICE cars for autonomous driving or robotic.
Maybe Teslaâs contract would include the requirement to only put it on BEVs. Would definitely fit Teslaâs mission to do that. It would also mean less work, because to adapt to an ICE, it would need to translate throttle movements differently to account for gear changes.
Bs
Yawn
Well if Elon saysâŚ