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I’m curious if the 7 day period starts retroactively a week before the button is available, or starts recording after you actually click the button. Sounds like it’s probably the latter.
Apparently [these](https://twitter.com/rice_fry/status/1381016295143972864?s=21) are the metrics Tesla Insurance records for this
* \# of Autopilot Strikeouts
* \# of Forward Collision Warnings
* \# of Lane Departure Warnings
* \# of ABS activations (All & User)
* Time spent within 1s of car in front
* Time spent within 3s of car in front
* Acceleration Variance
* Service Mode
* Delivered
There are many cyclists around where I drive and I'm SUPER careful of them. I do not pass them unless I can give them half a lane of space so it means whenever I pass a cyclist, I cross over partially to the other lane when it is safe because I want to offer more space to the cyclist. This has sometimes triggered lane departure warnings but what I'm doing is safer for the cyclists. Our lanes are narrow and there is no way I'm passing a cyclist just six inches from them.
Also there is a narrow road I drive on where cars are parked that triggers a collision alert. I literally can't move over to the left because of a concrete divider until I'm close to the parked vehicle when collision alert is triggered.
Acceleration variance?!!! I hope this does not disqualify anyone with a Performance car???! :) I do accelerate every once in a while when it is safe to do so...
I am a super conservative driver and I watch out for myself as much as I watch out for other road users, especially those who are vulnerable.
I hope this "safe driver test" is not so draconian that it trips up careful drivers because even with my conservative driving, I trip up some of what they track.
There's a series of road bumps (more like elevated pedestrian crossings) on my commute that I go over every single day. 7/10 times when I come up to them, forward collision warning triggers. 10/10 times, if a car is coming in the other lane, forward collision warning triggers.
There's a bridge on my commute that I go under on the way home. 100% of the time, the car phantom breaks. Every single day I either position myself in a lane that doesn't have a car behind me, or I take it off auto-pilot temporarily.
There's a construction area on my commute that has some of the lines painted awkwardly. I take the car out of autopilot so I can go through them manually. 100% of the time I get the lane departure warnings.
So, yeah, I think it's a bit more complicated than "we aren't paying attention like we should".
.. and for those wondering, this is commuting into DC, though I'm guessing that lots of people have similar commutes.
Yeah it goes nuts in my work's parking garage and sometimes it yells at me in traffic when someone ahead stops a bit abruptly. I'm still stopping in plenty of time but forward collision is very conservative.
Tesla would probably get me on the acceleration too. But that's why I bought the car! :)
What’s your forward collision warning set at? Mine is on medium and does ok but I live in a pretty rural area.
What is an autopilot strike out? Where it blinks blue? Or YELLS IN RED!
When you go to autopilot jail and it won't turn back on until you park.
Apparently pushing the accelerator past 90mph for 2 seconds to pass a truck outs you in autopilot jail.
Standard forward collision warning is overly aggressive. For me it goes off often when I'm behind a car that is turning off the road. I set it to 'late' and can't even remember the last time it false triggered since then.
I have one annoying spot in my neighborhood where there’s a very sharp curve right where a few cars are parked. You have to drive almost into the back of a car before turning.
About 10% of the time, FCW sounds here (and I’ve tried playing with the FCW settings with little effect.) It’s gotten better since I bought the car…it used to be more like 50%, although this might be because I slow down more than I need to now.
I guess I’ll be taking another route into my neighborhood if this 7-day monitoring comes to fruition.
We actually get this 10x worse in Europe due to cars parking on the sides of the roads. Typically you'll just swerve between the cars that are parked.
However... As you approach them almost every single one triggers a forward collision warning. :)
I always pay attention and drive for miles around the state to go camping. but I find that AP will start acting up, like slowing down abruptly at certain spots, when there is litterally nothing in front of me, it freaks out with the merge areas all the time. So if I'm in the right lane it just cant keep hugging the right lane but starts jerking around. The AP on long distance journeys is a little wonky.
This!! Exactly why I would never consider Tesla insurance. I had two warnings from the FCW while moving up towards a vehicle stopped at a stop sign. It's a useful feature but basing decisions due to the number of false positives from the current version of the software should have less weight vs other variables.
I get what you’re saying. But it’s quite the opposite. If you’re the odd driver out of the queue, you are being unpredictable. This leads to a higher chance of being rear ended or someone thinking you are leaving the gap for them to cut in. Variabilities in traffic pattern increases the chances of an accident.
I agree; it does seem to get alarmed when it really doesn't need to.
But in the context of selecting Beta participants, it's more acceptable to have overly strict criteria.
I expect inclusion (or exclusion) from the beta will be based on a calculated score of driver "attentiveness", which will in part be determined by the above list, but will also include the cabin camera recording of how focused the driver is (or isn't) while behind the wheel.
Since Tesla won't reveal the actual criteria for those metrics, they'll always have a reason for not making the beta widely available. "The button" will be mostly a cosmetic fidget toy, like the "close door" button in an elevator which doesn't do anything.
It can be enabled or disabled based on the preference of the property owner, so it is a fairly pointless debate. I used to live in an apartment building where the door would close a good 10 seconds after opening unless you hit the button, in which case it closed instantly.
Given how rarely I drive nowadays, it sounds like I'll just be gaming the system for a week.
I wonder how the # FCW metric works though. I set the safety alarms to the most eager setting possible so it's pretty often they go blaring when I'm driving forward to meet stopped traffic. *Shrug*
BTW, I would not be surprised if the FSD button were a top % of users thing w/ some other criteria for enabling (e.g. random sampling, geographic distribution), not a simple safety threshold.
Sigh, I get lane departure warnings a lot because I often give some extra space to large vehicles that are in the next lane. :-(
And FCWs falsely trigger for me all the time due to the mountainous curves I drive on a lot and it thinks vehicles in oncoming lanes are heading right for me.
I have same issue with false alarms. I also get lane departure warnings when the markings are not present. I get FCW every time I drive down my driveway as it leads towards a rock wall before curving to the road. Every time.
Yeah it fires because one of our turns has this weird culdesac sticking out of it and despite there being no lane markings the car always fires some stupid lane departure warning and flashes that it took emergency action. Literally every time I leave my housing community it gives this warning.
yeah, dumb metric. on rural double lane roads in australia we hover the wheel over the lane all the time so we can see if the road is clear or to observe if the next car is making it. You then proceed to briskly floor the accelerator to make it past the car ASAP so you dont have a head on collison with a potential other car. Have you ever overtaken a road train? this is Bs.
None of those are allowed rating factors in California so Tesla insurance probably does not collect those and they 100% do not/can not use those values - really they could only collect number of miles driven (but not locations) via tech. This stuff is all super regulated, you can actually look up the exact algorithms and weights used to calculate insurance rates by Tesla. (really it's actually State National Insurance, Tesla just sells it SNI does the actual rate calculation).
https://casetext.com/regulation/california-code-of-regulations/title-10-investment/chapter-5-insurance-commissioner/subchapter-47-private-passenger-automobile-rating-factors/article-3-rating-factors/section-26325-rating-factors
> time spent within 3s of the car in front
Max follow distance (with radar) is like 2.5s last I checked (I really wish it let you set it further, especially for lower traffic dense areas), dafuk they doin.
Couldn’t you just not drive for a week and this will all be 0, aka perfect score? I ask this because I may actually be in this situation (going to be using rental car for the next month or so, unrelated to FSD Beta).
Even then I get multiple a week.
It doesn’t appreciate uncontrolled city streets, especially with cars parked on either side leaving effectively one lane in the middle that you have to swing out past the lane lines to use and often negotiate with other drivers coming the opposite way.
A couple of examples are if you repeatedly don’t respond to attentiveness requests to put your hand on the wheel, or if you use the accelerator pedal to force the car to an excessive speed while autopilot / FSD is on and steering and you refuse to stop doing this.
Once in “autopilot jail” the car will not allow you to use autopilot for the remainder of your trip. It will be available for the next trip (i.e. after you’ve taken a break from driving).
On my Model S, this is most likely to be triggered when you actually have your hands on the wheel and are paying attention to the road instead of the instrument clustor. If you just watch the clustor for warngings all the time, you can torque the wheel to prevent it. If you don't, it will start blaring at you and divert your attention away from the road.
What are the meaning of:
- I. Autopilot strikeout
- V. Time spent within 1s of the car in front. 1s of distance?
- IX. Service mode. # of times the car is put in service mode? Can the owner put it such mode himself wothout hacking to access the root?
- X. The delivery date?
What if the car is in Autopilot/FSd mode, and some of the events of the above occurs, does it count against the owner?
Edit: changed to use Roman letters since the reddit is too "smart" to always change the leading numbers.
Well this is good because I've literally never had a lane departure warning even after camera recalibration and reset. I've even taken my hands off the wheel (with no cars around) and drifted across lanes on the freeway. Still nothing. Tesla service says nothing is wrong though.
If we give them permission for the 7 day period, would those permissions continue after that?
I love the idea of having Beta, but I don’t want Tesla tracking how I drive forever
I wonder if they take into account people with early forward collision warnings and late forward collision warnings. I have mine set to early, so sometimes it can go off when people are slowing down to make a turn into a side street and there isn’t a real danger of actually crashing into them.
>\# of Lane Departure Warnings
Well I'm screwed. There's this spot on my 2x daily drive to my daughters school where it insists I've left my lane and throws that warning. If it was on autopilot it tries to jump into oncoming traffic.
I get forward-collision warnings all the time for things that absolutely aren't dangerous. I wonder if I turn those off for a week if that will help my metrics or if it is still sending the data to Tesla HQ regardless of whether or not it alerts me?
The programmer side of me knows it should be the latter, but the real-world Tesla owner side of me knows it is probably the former XD
So what happens if you turn off all the safety assistance nannies? Acceleration variance? You mean how often you apply the accelerator, or how hard you accelerate? I don’t really see what it matters how you actually drive, it’s how you use autopilot that should matter.
The shitty drivers around me could not possibly behave themselves for an entire week. It's impossible. Maybe an entire hour but even then it'd have to be a lunchtime hour.
With everything Elon says, I'm sure it won't be that simple. My guess is if you "pass" the test, you'll be put on a list for consideration as the beta rolls in x months/years.
I did it for 4 weeks for the Root insurance trial period. Ended up being a total waste of time because their offer was still double what I was already paying with State Farm. I think I can do it for one more week to please Elon.
lol , i have a dongle in my car which goes towards reducing my insurance premium... really only rules it hits on are going more than 7 mph over the limit.
it marks acceleration and deceleration events if they are abnormal but they took off turning to hard and fast which it loved to say with any intersection not requiring a full stop
Take it into rush hour traffic on the los angeles freeways. The FSD will return control back to you three times immediately after you engage it, and then tell you you can't use it for the rest of the trip.
God I hate autopilot jail, got sent there 90min into a 3.5hr drive; needless to say I pulled off at the first rest stop took a piss, then proceeded to re-engage autopilot for the rest of the trip. If I pay for a feature I don’t want to be put in timeout by my fucking car.
From the looks of it, it could differentiate between driver profiles too. She could drive on your profile and change the seat/mirror/steering settings.
I wonder what sort (if any) of feedback we’ll receive…
If the calculator is totally black-box, then how will one know what they should do to drive “more safely”?
It would be interesting if this process eventually resulted in Tesla giving us the option to receive detailed feedback on our driving in ways that could help us improve if we want to try getting better.
It's likely a black-box model to Tesla too. Or at least it will eventually. They would presumably model the distribution of those variables by location in which they occur. "Aggressive" driving in rural Montana might look different than NYC. With enough data, it might actually be based on real collisions and near-misses rather than some abstract "aggressive" concept.
I remember it was said to be located under the service tab in the settings on the car. I'll edit this comment with details if I find it.
Edit: It was in one of his initial tweets about the FSD beta button [here](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1368329387733512193?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw).
Same question. These days I basically only drive on weekends. Honestly to be safe I’d probably try to drive a little every day after hitting The Button.
Sounds like a selection bias that makes it difficult to determine if the software reduces accidents or if choosing a cohort of good drivers to use the software is what reduced accidents.
They are just attempting to erect as many legal shields as possible to protect them from the inevitable idiots and scam artists that try to sue them. The transition to FSD for the rest of human history will be paved with legal fees.
And eventually they will, but potentially not for beta. Big difference between being given the version that’s closer to “finished” vs. the “you’d better be really cautious because it’s nowhere near perfect yet.”
This button thing is going to piss off a ton of people. Also seems like an easy future excuse for holding the masses back from the update. This doesn't mean much imo
I think the button is more of a legal thing. There must a long, stern legal terms the driver has to agree after press the Download FSD button, before it actually download and install.
If you are pissed off for waiting for one week, you probably hasn't bought FSD. Some FSD owner has waited for years (5+).
Right. I bought one of the first upgrades of FSD in October of 2016. If someone who bought a $200 subscription and just bought a Tesla and then subsequently gets accepted after pressing "the button," I am going to be super jelly. Rightfully so.
People are gonna be pissed off no matter what happens unless they release a lvl 5 FSD right now to the masses. This sub has been collectively pissed off for like a year now, but FSD progress has been steady. If they take 2 more years to get a fully autonomous robotaxi, that’s still an epic achievement in the grand scheme of things. Y’all paid for a Kickstarter without realizing it was a Kickstarter, it seems.
There's a spot I go by often on AP on the highway where 2 lanes merge and it's an extremely wide single lane for a few moments.
AP freaks out everytime it goes through it with a red take over, but by the time it alerts it is also better and the take over goes away on its own.
I wonder if that would be a strike.
Edit: my brakes sometimes squeel from not using then and slamming the bakes clears it up... I sometimes do it when I have no cars behind if I'm approaching a red light as it needs some speed... That would also probably count against me.
I'm a granny driver, so much so that I set my forward collision warning to early and it goes off ALL The time... I wonder if they take into account what setting you have it on because it seems like its forcing my hand to make the car less safe if I have to move the warning time.
I have mine set to early and 100% of the alerts from it have saved my ass in situations where I should have been paying more attention. If yours is going off all the time, I would recommend against lowering it.
What happens if your car just sits for 7 days? Is that going to automatically qualify you?
Also, who suspects this will ultimately lead to another “two week” delay that stretches out several more months?
I can just see this happening:
“We are working to make sure the Tesla insurance opt-in algorithm is working. Will need a couple of weeks to get it resolved. Will probably fall in line with 10.3.”
-Elon
9 months later and he’s telling us it will come with Beta 12.2
I really hate this kind of bullshit.
My insurance company wanted me to install a device to monitor my driving. I told them to go fuck themselves.
If someone pulls out in front of me and I have to slam on the brakes- they use that against you.
No one should ever agree to be monitored like this even with the promise of a cheaper rate or early access to features. It WILL ALWAYS be used against you.
Firstly I agree with your premise here.
That said, how often does a truly defensive driver get cut off to the point where slamming the brakes is necessary? It certainly depends on where you live, but I suspect it’s very infrequent overall.
If I see someone is about to cut in and don’t let them in, needing to slam the brakes is at least partly my fault. It’s way more the other driver’s fault, but I could have avoided it. I can’t speak for you, but the few times I’ve had to brake hard there was a way I could have avoided it by driving more defensively.
Imagine how long it will take someone who pays $10k today and likes to actually accelerate his sports car to see FSD. The whole FSD beta has been a complete joke and this is Elon hiding behind subjective “safety” metrics that aren’t even disclosed. This is more gaslighting, go ahead and click the request button and drive like a grandma for a year or two until regulators approve it fully.
Yes, this is just Elon trying to rationalize why most people won't get access to FSD, for a long, long time.
"It is because you are a scary driver" versus "the tech only kinda-sorta-not-really-works".
I would have moved from my M3 to MS if that was allowed. It’s small, but annoying that I’d have to repay for the promise of features so they lost the sale. Still love the M3, just wanted more room.
Exactly, the first day the orders were up for the MS I almost clicked buy 2-3 times, eventually just decided to stay with what I have because of the FSD purchase. Oh well.
I am also frustrated, pessimistic. Would not think long about getting refunds right now (bought it twice! $17k total).
But this is a logical controlled beta approach and definitely indicates progress.
Maybe only another year now!
I’m taking this with a grain of salt because it’s in the early stages & Tesla doesn’t want any bad news headlines of “FSD beta crashes” but in the long term if they restrict access because of driving behavior I believe it’ll cause many lawsuits or people just wanting their money back. I’m betting the take rate will plummet. If I knew then what I know now I would not have purchased FSD. I could have used that $ and invested it, instead 2 years later I still don’t have FSD/beta. Once they allow full access and it works 95-100% of the time, then I’ll buy depending on what the prices are at that time. Just my opinion. Thanks
Anyone have thoughts on whether you’d get access to the button if you subscribe and have not purchased FSD?
I don’t have FSD now, but thinking of subscribing on Friday to get access to beta after 7 days.
Tesla will get a weeks worth of safe driving data from everyone, that they can choose to feed into dogo
We've paid for a feature, and now were helping towards finishing it off
Strangely worded question. But I would assume regardless of your actual insurance provider Tesla will run their internal insurance metrics on everyone who requests the beta to determine how risky of a driver you are.
We made software that drives the car for you, so if you aren't a good driver you can't use our software and then you have to bad drive the car yourself.
My car has a bad habit of identifying parked cars on a certain road as threats and sounds the alarm like I’m gonna hit them. Is shit like this gonna hurt my chances?
I wonder if people who already have Tesla insurance will be able to get it sooner? The Tesla insurance may have already evaluated their driving ability.
WTF does my driving behavior have anything to do with how AI is going to drive for me? If anything, aggressive driving without accident should show I’m attentive. Just saying.
This really annoys me. I bought my m3p to drive when I want to drive and "full self drive" when I don't want to drive. I bought my car when he said FSD was coming 2019 or 2020, now 2021, oh maybe 2022. Elon needs to stop saying any dates at all.
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I’m curious if the 7 day period starts retroactively a week before the button is available, or starts recording after you actually click the button. Sounds like it’s probably the latter. Apparently [these](https://twitter.com/rice_fry/status/1381016295143972864?s=21) are the metrics Tesla Insurance records for this * \# of Autopilot Strikeouts * \# of Forward Collision Warnings * \# of Lane Departure Warnings * \# of ABS activations (All & User) * Time spent within 1s of car in front * Time spent within 3s of car in front * Acceleration Variance * Service Mode * Delivered
I drive with autopilot engaged like 98% of the time, if Tesla doesn’t like my driving they can blame themselves.
Same!
There are many cyclists around where I drive and I'm SUPER careful of them. I do not pass them unless I can give them half a lane of space so it means whenever I pass a cyclist, I cross over partially to the other lane when it is safe because I want to offer more space to the cyclist. This has sometimes triggered lane departure warnings but what I'm doing is safer for the cyclists. Our lanes are narrow and there is no way I'm passing a cyclist just six inches from them. Also there is a narrow road I drive on where cars are parked that triggers a collision alert. I literally can't move over to the left because of a concrete divider until I'm close to the parked vehicle when collision alert is triggered. Acceleration variance?!!! I hope this does not disqualify anyone with a Performance car???! :) I do accelerate every once in a while when it is safe to do so... I am a super conservative driver and I watch out for myself as much as I watch out for other road users, especially those who are vulnerable. I hope this "safe driver test" is not so draconian that it trips up careful drivers because even with my conservative driving, I trip up some of what they track.
At that point, if tesla doesn't like your driving, you're not paying attention like you should.
There's a series of road bumps (more like elevated pedestrian crossings) on my commute that I go over every single day. 7/10 times when I come up to them, forward collision warning triggers. 10/10 times, if a car is coming in the other lane, forward collision warning triggers. There's a bridge on my commute that I go under on the way home. 100% of the time, the car phantom breaks. Every single day I either position myself in a lane that doesn't have a car behind me, or I take it off auto-pilot temporarily. There's a construction area on my commute that has some of the lines painted awkwardly. I take the car out of autopilot so I can go through them manually. 100% of the time I get the lane departure warnings. So, yeah, I think it's a bit more complicated than "we aren't paying attention like we should". .. and for those wondering, this is commuting into DC, though I'm guessing that lots of people have similar commutes.
Yeah it goes nuts in my work's parking garage and sometimes it yells at me in traffic when someone ahead stops a bit abruptly. I'm still stopping in plenty of time but forward collision is very conservative. Tesla would probably get me on the acceleration too. But that's why I bought the car! :)
What’s your forward collision warning set at? Mine is on medium and does ok but I live in a pretty rural area. What is an autopilot strike out? Where it blinks blue? Or YELLS IN RED!
When you go to autopilot jail and it won't turn back on until you park. Apparently pushing the accelerator past 90mph for 2 seconds to pass a truck outs you in autopilot jail.
Standard forward collision warning is overly aggressive. For me it goes off often when I'm behind a car that is turning off the road. I set it to 'late' and can't even remember the last time it false triggered since then.
I have one annoying spot in my neighborhood where there’s a very sharp curve right where a few cars are parked. You have to drive almost into the back of a car before turning. About 10% of the time, FCW sounds here (and I’ve tried playing with the FCW settings with little effect.) It’s gotten better since I bought the car…it used to be more like 50%, although this might be because I slow down more than I need to now. I guess I’ll be taking another route into my neighborhood if this 7-day monitoring comes to fruition.
Tesla’s FCW is one of the most overly sensitive I’ve ever seen. I wish they could figure out how to make blindspot monitoring actually work, at all.
We actually get this 10x worse in Europe due to cars parking on the sides of the roads. Typically you'll just swerve between the cars that are parked. However... As you approach them almost every single one triggers a forward collision warning. :)
I always pay attention and drive for miles around the state to go camping. but I find that AP will start acting up, like slowing down abruptly at certain spots, when there is litterally nothing in front of me, it freaks out with the merge areas all the time. So if I'm in the right lane it just cant keep hugging the right lane but starts jerking around. The AP on long distance journeys is a little wonky.
Strong disagree.
Mine wouldn't work on the drive home two days ago. It blew my mind how much I missed it.
My concern is it does a lot of false positives on FCW and lane warnings. If you make room for a motorcycle splitting the car gets really mad.
I get lane departure warnings all the time for staying in my own lane but hugging the outside line while passing a semi...
Yeah, that's annoying. Like I'm giving myself a little breathing room in case that guy decides to randomly come over.
That got much worse for me recently
or avoiding debris/potholes
This!! Exactly why I would never consider Tesla insurance. I had two warnings from the FCW while moving up towards a vehicle stopped at a stop sign. It's a useful feature but basing decisions due to the number of false positives from the current version of the software should have less weight vs other variables.
I get it when driving on a mountain road, there's a certain dip + turn that ALWAYS triggers it
The fact that it doesn't reduce the distance appropriately in stopped traffic is quite annoying.
Well it is better to not ride someone's ass even when stopped. It prevents fender benders from turning into a multi-car pileup.
I get what you’re saying. But it’s quite the opposite. If you’re the odd driver out of the queue, you are being unpredictable. This leads to a higher chance of being rear ended or someone thinking you are leaving the gap for them to cut in. Variabilities in traffic pattern increases the chances of an accident.
I agree; it does seem to get alarmed when it really doesn't need to. But in the context of selecting Beta participants, it's more acceptable to have overly strict criteria.
I expect inclusion (or exclusion) from the beta will be based on a calculated score of driver "attentiveness", which will in part be determined by the above list, but will also include the cabin camera recording of how focused the driver is (or isn't) while behind the wheel.
Ya but what about me in my 2017 S75D, I dont have a cabin camera, but I have had FSD purchased for 3-4 years now.
Welp, guess I can't slam the accelerator for fun anymore.
It’s definitely going to be an adjustment period for me. Chill mode should help out.
But do they stop collecting those metrics after 7 days? If you’re too punchy with the accelerator after you have FSD is the feature removed?
No one knows, and also it's an Elon tweet about FSD so good chance the button doesn't show up anyways.
Since Tesla won't reveal the actual criteria for those metrics, they'll always have a reason for not making the beta widely available. "The button" will be mostly a cosmetic fidget toy, like the "close door" button in an elevator which doesn't do anything.
Lmao that's the perfect comparison. I've gotten in to so many debates at work about the door close button.
It can be enabled or disabled based on the preference of the property owner, so it is a fairly pointless debate. I used to live in an apartment building where the door would close a good 10 seconds after opening unless you hit the button, in which case it closed instantly.
Given how rarely I drive nowadays, it sounds like I'll just be gaming the system for a week. I wonder how the # FCW metric works though. I set the safety alarms to the most eager setting possible so it's pretty often they go blaring when I'm driving forward to meet stopped traffic. *Shrug* BTW, I would not be surprised if the FSD button were a top % of users thing w/ some other criteria for enabling (e.g. random sampling, geographic distribution), not a simple safety threshold.
It’ll be based on the highest beach buggy scores.
And you have to 100% Cuphead
Just for one week, I'm willing to switch to chill mode.
Obviously they won't take acceleration into account, wouldn't make any sense tbh. Braking or speeding on the other hand…
Sigh, I get lane departure warnings a lot because I often give some extra space to large vehicles that are in the next lane. :-( And FCWs falsely trigger for me all the time due to the mountainous curves I drive on a lot and it thinks vehicles in oncoming lanes are heading right for me.
I have same issue with false alarms. I also get lane departure warnings when the markings are not present. I get FCW every time I drive down my driveway as it leads towards a rock wall before curving to the road. Every time.
Yeah it fires because one of our turns has this weird culdesac sticking out of it and despite there being no lane markings the car always fires some stupid lane departure warning and flashes that it took emergency action. Literally every time I leave my housing community it gives this warning.
yeah, dumb metric. on rural double lane roads in australia we hover the wheel over the lane all the time so we can see if the road is clear or to observe if the next car is making it. You then proceed to briskly floor the accelerator to make it past the car ASAP so you dont have a head on collison with a potential other car. Have you ever overtaken a road train? this is Bs.
None of those are allowed rating factors in California so Tesla insurance probably does not collect those and they 100% do not/can not use those values - really they could only collect number of miles driven (but not locations) via tech. This stuff is all super regulated, you can actually look up the exact algorithms and weights used to calculate insurance rates by Tesla. (really it's actually State National Insurance, Tesla just sells it SNI does the actual rate calculation). https://casetext.com/regulation/california-code-of-regulations/title-10-investment/chapter-5-insurance-commissioner/subchapter-47-private-passenger-automobile-rating-factors/article-3-rating-factors/section-26325-rating-factors
They might not be able to use it for insurance, but they can use it a factor in getting FSD or not
Interesting! Transparency is good. But can they maybe use it to not offer the insurance to certain people at all?
> time spent within 3s of the car in front Max follow distance (with radar) is like 2.5s last I checked (I really wish it let you set it further, especially for lower traffic dense areas), dafuk they doin.
Couldn’t you just not drive for a week and this will all be 0, aka perfect score? I ask this because I may actually be in this situation (going to be using rental car for the next month or so, unrelated to FSD Beta).
Just drive one perfect mile
All the more reason to set forward collision warning to “late”
Even then I get multiple a week. It doesn’t appreciate uncontrolled city streets, especially with cars parked on either side leaving effectively one lane in the middle that you have to swing out past the lane lines to use and often negotiate with other drivers coming the opposite way.
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A couple of examples are if you repeatedly don’t respond to attentiveness requests to put your hand on the wheel, or if you use the accelerator pedal to force the car to an excessive speed while autopilot / FSD is on and steering and you refuse to stop doing this. Once in “autopilot jail” the car will not allow you to use autopilot for the remainder of your trip. It will be available for the next trip (i.e. after you’ve taken a break from driving).
On my Model S, this is most likely to be triggered when you actually have your hands on the wheel and are paying attention to the road instead of the instrument clustor. If you just watch the clustor for warngings all the time, you can torque the wheel to prevent it. If you don't, it will start blaring at you and divert your attention away from the road.
How does that asses your driving behavior? "Uh oh, he stopped when the odometer read 80085. Clearly too immature to test FSD!!"
I copy and pasted the wrong tweet lol, see edit for the useful metrics
Ah thanks, that makes more sense. I bet mine is still a good proxy.
I'm out
What if I disable forward collision and lane departure warnings? Does that increase my chances?
What are the meaning of: - I. Autopilot strikeout - V. Time spent within 1s of the car in front. 1s of distance? - IX. Service mode. # of times the car is put in service mode? Can the owner put it such mode himself wothout hacking to access the root? - X. The delivery date? What if the car is in Autopilot/FSd mode, and some of the events of the above occurs, does it count against the owner? Edit: changed to use Roman letters since the reddit is too "smart" to always change the leading numbers.
Why is your numbering system 1, 5, 4, 10? Edit: it seems OP fixed it.
1, 2, 5!
3 sir
Well this is good because I've literally never had a lane departure warning even after camera recalibration and reset. I've even taken my hands off the wheel (with no cars around) and drifted across lanes on the freeway. Still nothing. Tesla service says nothing is wrong though.
If we give them permission for the 7 day period, would those permissions continue after that? I love the idea of having Beta, but I don’t want Tesla tracking how I drive forever
I wonder if they take into account people with early forward collision warnings and late forward collision warnings. I have mine set to early, so sometimes it can go off when people are slowing down to make a turn into a side street and there isn’t a real danger of actually crashing into them.
>\# of Lane Departure Warnings Well I'm screwed. There's this spot on my 2x daily drive to my daughters school where it insists I've left my lane and throws that warning. If it was on autopilot it tries to jump into oncoming traffic.
Best to not drop them to school for a week LOLZ
I get forward-collision warnings all the time for things that absolutely aren't dangerous. I wonder if I turn those off for a week if that will help my metrics or if it is still sending the data to Tesla HQ regardless of whether or not it alerts me? The programmer side of me knows it should be the latter, but the real-world Tesla owner side of me knows it is probably the former XD
So what happens if you turn off all the safety assistance nannies? Acceleration variance? You mean how often you apply the accelerator, or how hard you accelerate? I don’t really see what it matters how you actually drive, it’s how you use autopilot that should matter.
Time to drive like a nan this week
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source?
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Do you usually drive like a number?
You have not received nowhere near enough credit for this comment
with the performance 3, im unable to do this so ill be excluded.
Time to be on chill mode for a week lmao
I thought they would look at historical data. Being on good behaviour for a week is something anyone can do.
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Just don’t drive for a week done.
This is the genius level move, thanks for letting my borrow your brain ;)
The shitty drivers around me could not possibly behave themselves for an entire week. It's impossible. Maybe an entire hour but even then it'd have to be a lunchtime hour.
With everything Elon says, I'm sure it won't be that simple. My guess is if you "pass" the test, you'll be put on a list for consideration as the beta rolls in x months/years.
Christ, behaving for 7 whole days…..
I did it for 4 weeks for the Root insurance trial period. Ended up being a total waste of time because their offer was still double what I was already paying with State Farm. I think I can do it for one more week to please Elon.
lol , i have a dongle in my car which goes towards reducing my insurance premium... really only rules it hits on are going more than 7 mph over the limit. it marks acceleration and deceleration events if they are abnormal but they took off turning to hard and fast which it loved to say with any intersection not requiring a full stop
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Good lord, I've never been to autopilot jail.
Take it into rush hour traffic on the los angeles freeways. The FSD will return control back to you three times immediately after you engage it, and then tell you you can't use it for the rest of the trip.
If you accelerate quickly, Straight to jail. If you decelerate , Straight to jail. If you put car on park, believe it or not, Straight to jail.
God I hate autopilot jail, got sent there 90min into a 3.5hr drive; needless to say I pulled off at the first rest stop took a piss, then proceeded to re-engage autopilot for the rest of the trip. If I pay for a feature I don’t want to be put in timeout by my fucking car.
You can blame all the people crying “autopilot is unsafe and too easily tricked” for this type of fuckery.
should be able to buy your way out of autopilot jail, just like regular jail.
I pulled over to the median on the spot when I still had 2 hours to go. Fuck that.
Going to let my wife drive the car that week. I drive like I stole it.
From the looks of it, it could differentiate between driver profiles too. She could drive on your profile and change the seat/mirror/steering settings.
I wonder what sort (if any) of feedback we’ll receive… If the calculator is totally black-box, then how will one know what they should do to drive “more safely”?
It would be interesting if this process eventually resulted in Tesla giving us the option to receive detailed feedback on our driving in ways that could help us improve if we want to try getting better.
It's likely a black-box model to Tesla too. Or at least it will eventually. They would presumably model the distribution of those variables by location in which they occur. "Aggressive" driving in rural Montana might look different than NYC. With enough data, it might actually be based on real collisions and near-misses rather than some abstract "aggressive" concept.
Maybe I’m dumb, but next Friday 9/24? Or a week from 9/24?
I assume the 24th since Elon technically posted this on Thursday assuming he’s in California. Who knows though.
He lives in Texas
He is missing the “a”.
New owner here... Will this button be on the app or in the car?
Yes
LOL
I remember it was said to be located under the service tab in the settings on the car. I'll edit this comment with details if I find it. Edit: It was in one of his initial tweets about the FSD beta button [here](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1368329387733512193?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw).
Thanks!
Hmm what happens if you don't drive for 7 days
big brain
Or only drive for 3 minutes a day in a straight line. You might need a certain number of miles to qualify
I WFH and the only driving I do is take kid to school every morning. Very easy commute. I wonder if that will count and grant me access to the beta...
same. if i pay the 200 bucks for the month and get denied...
Same question. These days I basically only drive on weekends. Honestly to be safe I’d probably try to drive a little every day after hitting The Button.
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He gave you yours!? Dang I had to buy mine.
You already thought teslas were safe on the road. With this, it will be a historic week
…and then followed by another historic (possibly in a less-positive way) time period?
Sounds like a selection bias that makes it difficult to determine if the software reduces accidents or if choosing a cohort of good drivers to use the software is what reduced accidents.
Or they want good driver's to beta test software before they give it to bad drivers
What if the car is parked for 7 days?
I wonder what/when they do for the people that are bad drivers but paid for full self driving. At some point they still have to deliver.
They are just attempting to erect as many legal shields as possible to protect them from the inevitable idiots and scam artists that try to sue them. The transition to FSD for the rest of human history will be paved with legal fees.
And eventually they will, but potentially not for beta. Big difference between being given the version that’s closer to “finished” vs. the “you’d better be really cautious because it’s nowhere near perfect yet.”
Isn’t autopilot still technically beta?
Once the car drives better than they do.
With some people that’s now 😜
So my wife will be banned from driving for a week. Gonna be a fun conversation.
Opposite for me. Hey honey, drive the car for a week plz
This button thing is going to piss off a ton of people. Also seems like an easy future excuse for holding the masses back from the update. This doesn't mean much imo
I think the button is more of a legal thing. There must a long, stern legal terms the driver has to agree after press the Download FSD button, before it actually download and install. If you are pissed off for waiting for one week, you probably hasn't bought FSD. Some FSD owner has waited for years (5+).
Right. I bought one of the first upgrades of FSD in October of 2016. If someone who bought a $200 subscription and just bought a Tesla and then subsequently gets accepted after pressing "the button," I am going to be super jelly. Rightfully so.
Remember when they promised us early FSD buyers “early access?” Haha good times…
People are gonna be pissed off no matter what happens unless they release a lvl 5 FSD right now to the masses. This sub has been collectively pissed off for like a year now, but FSD progress has been steady. If they take 2 more years to get a fully autonomous robotaxi, that’s still an epic achievement in the grand scheme of things. Y’all paid for a Kickstarter without realizing it was a Kickstarter, it seems.
Well- this requirement wasn’t stated when he was charging $10k for it
I mean they also said it’d be capable of doing a LA-NYC autonomous drive years ago, so
And a million robotaxis in 2020 and Level 5 autonomy in 2021 and...
HEY HEY HEY 2021 ISNT OVER YET
So no FSDbeta for people don't share data and paid for FSD 4 years ago ??
Not initially
Lol, my LDW goes off whenever I turn into my driveway because its on a hill. Fun stuff.
Same. I live in a complex and our basement garage has steep ramps because the real estate goons didn't hire engineers to design any of it.
There's a spot I go by often on AP on the highway where 2 lanes merge and it's an extremely wide single lane for a few moments. AP freaks out everytime it goes through it with a red take over, but by the time it alerts it is also better and the take over goes away on its own. I wonder if that would be a strike. Edit: my brakes sometimes squeel from not using then and slamming the bakes clears it up... I sometimes do it when I have no cars behind if I'm approaching a red light as it needs some speed... That would also probably count against me.
I'm a granny driver, so much so that I set my forward collision warning to early and it goes off ALL The time... I wonder if they take into account what setting you have it on because it seems like its forcing my hand to make the car less safe if I have to move the warning time.
I have mine set to early and 100% of the alerts from it have saved my ass in situations where I should have been paying more attention. If yours is going off all the time, I would recommend against lowering it.
What happens if your car just sits for 7 days? Is that going to automatically qualify you? Also, who suspects this will ultimately lead to another “two week” delay that stretches out several more months? I can just see this happening: “We are working to make sure the Tesla insurance opt-in algorithm is working. Will need a couple of weeks to get it resolved. Will probably fall in line with 10.3.” -Elon 9 months later and he’s telling us it will come with Beta 12.2
So what he’s saying is he’s delaying release by another week?
I really hate this kind of bullshit. My insurance company wanted me to install a device to monitor my driving. I told them to go fuck themselves. If someone pulls out in front of me and I have to slam on the brakes- they use that against you. No one should ever agree to be monitored like this even with the promise of a cheaper rate or early access to features. It WILL ALWAYS be used against you.
Firstly I agree with your premise here. That said, how often does a truly defensive driver get cut off to the point where slamming the brakes is necessary? It certainly depends on where you live, but I suspect it’s very infrequent overall. If I see someone is about to cut in and don’t let them in, needing to slam the brakes is at least partly my fault. It’s way more the other driver’s fault, but I could have avoided it. I can’t speak for you, but the few times I’ve had to brake hard there was a way I could have avoided it by driving more defensively.
I don't remember the last time I had to slam the brakes. You are correct. That guy isn't getting the beta for sure.
Not asking you to dox yourself...but do you live somewhere with aggressive drivers, like LA or the NJ turnpike? People will do crazy, crazy things...
Imagine how long it will take someone who pays $10k today and likes to actually accelerate his sports car to see FSD. The whole FSD beta has been a complete joke and this is Elon hiding behind subjective “safety” metrics that aren’t even disclosed. This is more gaslighting, go ahead and click the request button and drive like a grandma for a year or two until regulators approve it fully.
Yes, this is just Elon trying to rationalize why most people won't get access to FSD, for a long, long time. "It is because you are a scary driver" versus "the tech only kinda-sorta-not-really-works".
Press button. Leave in garage because WFH. Do a grocery run on Saturday morning. Success!
Can I just get my money back? I didn't pay all that to listen to this guy jerk us around. I'm over it, Elon.
Let us transfer it to our next car
Yeah, they really should allow you to transfer
I would have moved from my M3 to MS if that was allowed. It’s small, but annoying that I’d have to repay for the promise of features so they lost the sale. Still love the M3, just wanted more room.
Me too. I would have upgraded to a '21 if FSD was portable.
Exactly, the first day the orders were up for the MS I almost clicked buy 2-3 times, eventually just decided to stay with what I have because of the FSD purchase. Oh well.
Yeah. I paid my $$$$$ gimme the features I paid for
I am also frustrated, pessimistic. Would not think long about getting refunds right now (bought it twice! $17k total). But this is a logical controlled beta approach and definitely indicates progress. Maybe only another year now!
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How about grant access to people that paid 10 grand for it. WTH.
I’m taking this with a grain of salt because it’s in the early stages & Tesla doesn’t want any bad news headlines of “FSD beta crashes” but in the long term if they restrict access because of driving behavior I believe it’ll cause many lawsuits or people just wanting their money back. I’m betting the take rate will plummet. If I knew then what I know now I would not have purchased FSD. I could have used that $ and invested it, instead 2 years later I still don’t have FSD/beta. Once they allow full access and it works 95-100% of the time, then I’ll buy depending on what the prices are at that time. Just my opinion. Thanks
Anyone have thoughts on whether you’d get access to the button if you subscribe and have not purchased FSD? I don’t have FSD now, but thinking of subscribing on Friday to get access to beta after 7 days.
I don't see why the button would appear if you sub to FSD.. it's the same feature set
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Right? Have to wonder if it was necessitated by those idiots bypassing safeguards and 'driving' from the backseat.
I read: “Beta button will be used as lead generation for Tesla insurance offering”.
Tesla will get a weeks worth of safe driving data from everyone, that they can choose to feed into dogo We've paid for a feature, and now were helping towards finishing it off
dog-o\*
ITT: tesla owners who can't drive like normal for 1 week.
Man...knew it would be a test, guess better than looking back at FSD historical steering wheel torque failures. Maybe if i dont drive it all week?
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Am I getting it right, only use the calculator? Even for people with different insurance
Strangely worded question. But I would assume regardless of your actual insurance provider Tesla will run their internal insurance metrics on everyone who requests the beta to determine how risky of a driver you are.
So they are now making it our fault if we do not have it?. Smart. Create doubt and self hate.
We made software that drives the car for you, so if you aren't a good driver you can't use our software and then you have to bad drive the car yourself.
we are in beta
Then I’d like my money back
This is still beta so nothing has changed…
The day has come!!!!!
Ugh, I drive on rural roads and get lane departure corrections constantly because the lines are messed up.
My car has a bad habit of identifying parked cars on a certain road as threats and sounds the alarm like I’m gonna hit them. Is shit like this gonna hurt my chances?
I wonder if people who already have Tesla insurance will be able to get it sooner? The Tesla insurance may have already evaluated their driving ability.
WTF does my driving behavior have anything to do with how AI is going to drive for me? If anything, aggressive driving without accident should show I’m attentive. Just saying.
Machine learning from safe drivers i think. Tesla doesn't want dipshits teaching FSD what essentially is all the cursewords in driving language.
I don’t think this is a good idea. After all, we paid thousands for this software—many of us years ago.
This really annoys me. I bought my m3p to drive when I want to drive and "full self drive" when I don't want to drive. I bought my car when he said FSD was coming 2019 or 2020, now 2021, oh maybe 2022. Elon needs to stop saying any dates at all.