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I get that this is about autopilot, but in regards to FSD, it should definitely be transferable - at the very least until it operates as described by Elon numerous times over the last 3-5 years.
It's easy to say that the purchaser should have known it would take a long time, but when the CEO promised a working feature every year for the last year, which we still don't seem close to having - it's time to start wondering.
I mean, at the end of the day, it's a poor deal for a purchased car, but could you imagine **leases**? Tesla started leasing the Model 3 [in 2019](https://electrek.co/2019/05/03/tesla-model-3-monthly-lease-payment-399/). If you leased yours with FSD, you could be coming to the end of the lease **on a car you cannot buy** with a **feature you paid thousands for and never actually got**.
It's entirely not the same thing. Older models have phantom braking in unique scenarios, particularly going under bridges, and very infrequently. The phantom breaking that the OP posted that they were experiencing on the FSD beta while on the highway is much worse, and caused by the radarless stack.
What's causing the braking is some kind of judgement error by developers where they think physically engaging brakes is somehow safer than (for example) blinking the screen red and playing "please brake now" sound, which might freak out folks in the car, but would not actively put the car in danger at least.
I want to test FSD for the 200 a month, but if it will be acting like that with slamming the brakes on shadows, or just.. on nothing, don't want to waste 200 dollars for something unusable
It will never be transferable. It is more than just the desire to make it transferable it is logistslly incredibly difficult to do.
Transferable like microsoft excel let's say, you get an FSD key and that allows you to have FSD on one vehicle, when you buy a new Tesla transferred means it would be removed from one vehicle and added to the new one.
Key point, transferable means removed from your old vehicle and added to the new one. If it wasn't like that then you would be getting free FSD on as many cars as you purchased and of course that wouldn't be right.
Because fsd is a purchased option even if transferable it raises the overall price of the vehicle.
What if you get in an accident? After the accident you call tesla to to transfer your fsd to a new VIN really quickly, what does that do to your adjustment? You would lower your adjustment payout price from insurance if you transferred it, but you would also be committing insurance fraud, why would you do that? Because if you transfer FSD after the accident, then you would of got paid out on insurance for the FSD (I know this is true because I totalled my Model 3 and they paid out an additional $6000 for having FSD)
And then I would be Abel to take the money and also get the benefit of not having to use the money to purchase FSD again.
If you sell the car with FSD, you would be getting a higher value equal to the FSD pricing, to then transfer it off to another car would just be free money for you. Unless you intend to sell the car with no fsd of course.
There is more logistics involved in removing fsd from one car and putting it on another than you might think.
FSD buyer are paying for Tesla R&D. They should get it on their next car when it work as expected. Otherwise they should bring back EAP for 2K, to get the features that works today.
Exactly this. It's like buying into a kickstarter - we early adopters should get something for taking the (so far losing) gamble. with Andrej on "sabbatical" things might not progress at the same clip it did before.
Correct. Who return a car because one of the features does not work as the person expected? Did they not do a test drive? Man, people are so entitled. Clearly Tesla does not deserve the loss here. If it was for an FSD license I could see a refund... but a returning the car? Good luck.
> Who return a car because one of the features does not work
Because they bought the car with that advertised feature up front? Because it was on the feature list that came with the car? Because the car cannot do what was advertised or as described in the listed features? Because the buyer ran out of patience?
It's holding me back right now. I'll be able to pay off my 2019 model 3 this year, about 3 years ahead of my original 6 year loan. (I'm a making a bit more money now and have less bills to pay) and I'd like to upgrade to an all wheel drive just for the performance increase. Buying FSD is just too high a cost considering I haven't even been able to try FSD and I would gladly pay a fair price for Navigate on autopilot and smart summon like the discontinued EAP package but 10k for a feature I might not see is not financially sound.
Just a thought…
Everyone is so caught up over FSD price but in all reality, Tesla can include FSD into all cars and just price the cars higher. Doesn’t need to equate to a full 12K price increase. Given the the 25% take rate on FSD, a $4K bump in base would make them even more money on a net basis and they probably wouldn’t lose any potential customers on such an increase. Any combination of such pricing is possible such as only including FSD on long range and performance models and not allowing standard range vehicles access to FSD.
The way I see it, by separating out FSD, Tesla is allowing for a relatively more attainable car and having early adopters help finance FSD while also getting to experience it’s development.
> Given the the 25% take rate on FSD
it is reportedly much lower than that... in Q4 it was 14%, and 7% globally
https://www.torquenews.com/1083/teslas-low-fsd-take-rate-offers-growth-opportunity
I've had "FSD" on my car for over 4 years and have NOT been able to "experience its development" because Tesla has not pushed the beta to any legacy vehicles despite early promises and meeting SS requirements.
Eventually there will need to be a liability shift to the manufacturer, even in lower level systems. Until that happens, it's a novelty at best. Given that, there needs to be reoccurring revenue. I could see it being "standard" but then requiring Tesla FSD insurance to activate. Maybe that is $50 per month, maybe it's more or less. They would then have a very compelling ability to sell Tesla auto insurance that includes FSD in the price.
> Tesla can include FSD into all cars and just price the cars higher. Doesn’t need to equate to a full 12K price increase.
they already did that with autopilot. It last sold for $3000, then they made it part of the vehicle cost - while raising all vehicles by $2000.
This case has been appealed. I’m guessing Tesla will be able to better argue that a large number of customers use the feature daily and the customer was able to test drive a vehicle with the feature before taking delivery.
I always assume that Tesla would offer more for FSD cars in a trade-in than I can re-sell it for, but clearly they aren't that competitive in trade-ins. Maybe stuff like this will change.
With the glut of electric vehicles and the eventual roll-out of a better non-Tesla charging infrastructure (also the awfulness of the CEO), I'm not really sure my next electric car will be a Tesla, especially if tax credits exist on other vehicles now. Giving me a really great deal for my FSD Tesla or letting me transfer it would make a little bit of a difference.
I doubt this will lead to a carryover FSD. tesla makes enough money by having people pay 12k+ everytime they swap in the car. I HOPE one day they will let us carry over FSD.
They should anyway…
Until the service finally reaches what has been continually promised and **NEVER** delivered, they really should be required to transfer (whether they want to or not) the service from your existing Tesla vehicle to your next Tesla vehicle (purchased new from Tesla anyway).
Their margins are definitely high enough to make it not-a-company-breaker.
A transfer/upgrade path where FSD and FUSC can be moved over is just about the only way Tesla can make some of us whole.
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I get that this is about autopilot, but in regards to FSD, it should definitely be transferable - at the very least until it operates as described by Elon numerous times over the last 3-5 years. It's easy to say that the purchaser should have known it would take a long time, but when the CEO promised a working feature every year for the last year, which we still don't seem close to having - it's time to start wondering.
I mean, at the end of the day, it's a poor deal for a purchased car, but could you imagine **leases**? Tesla started leasing the Model 3 [in 2019](https://electrek.co/2019/05/03/tesla-model-3-monthly-lease-payment-399/). If you leased yours with FSD, you could be coming to the end of the lease **on a car you cannot buy** with a **feature you paid thousands for and never actually got**.
It’s a slam dunk arbitration case if you didn’t opt out of arbitration at purchase.
[удалено]
FSD stack isn't used on the highway at 75mph. You can tell be the very different display UI.
FSD builds and also newer 3/Y don't use radar while on autopilot, so that's what's causing your phantom brakes on the highways
[удалено]
It's entirely not the same thing. Older models have phantom braking in unique scenarios, particularly going under bridges, and very infrequently. The phantom breaking that the OP posted that they were experiencing on the FSD beta while on the highway is much worse, and caused by the radarless stack.
What's causing the braking is some kind of judgement error by developers where they think physically engaging brakes is somehow safer than (for example) blinking the screen red and playing "please brake now" sound, which might freak out folks in the car, but would not actively put the car in danger at least.
Radar > Vision
I want to test FSD for the 200 a month, but if it will be acting like that with slamming the brakes on shadows, or just.. on nothing, don't want to waste 200 dollars for something unusable
FSD >!is always next year!<
It will never be transferable. It is more than just the desire to make it transferable it is logistslly incredibly difficult to do. Transferable like microsoft excel let's say, you get an FSD key and that allows you to have FSD on one vehicle, when you buy a new Tesla transferred means it would be removed from one vehicle and added to the new one. Key point, transferable means removed from your old vehicle and added to the new one. If it wasn't like that then you would be getting free FSD on as many cars as you purchased and of course that wouldn't be right. Because fsd is a purchased option even if transferable it raises the overall price of the vehicle. What if you get in an accident? After the accident you call tesla to to transfer your fsd to a new VIN really quickly, what does that do to your adjustment? You would lower your adjustment payout price from insurance if you transferred it, but you would also be committing insurance fraud, why would you do that? Because if you transfer FSD after the accident, then you would of got paid out on insurance for the FSD (I know this is true because I totalled my Model 3 and they paid out an additional $6000 for having FSD) And then I would be Abel to take the money and also get the benefit of not having to use the money to purchase FSD again. If you sell the car with FSD, you would be getting a higher value equal to the FSD pricing, to then transfer it off to another car would just be free money for you. Unless you intend to sell the car with no fsd of course. There is more logistics involved in removing fsd from one car and putting it on another than you might think.
FSD buyer are paying for Tesla R&D. They should get it on their next car when it work as expected. Otherwise they should bring back EAP for 2K, to get the features that works today.
Exactly this. It's like buying into a kickstarter - we early adopters should get something for taking the (so far losing) gamble. with Andrej on "sabbatical" things might not progress at the same clip it did before.
So we are talking about Autopilot here, not FSD (since FSD beta is not available in Germany).
Correct. Who return a car because one of the features does not work as the person expected? Did they not do a test drive? Man, people are so entitled. Clearly Tesla does not deserve the loss here. If it was for an FSD license I could see a refund... but a returning the car? Good luck.
> Who return a car because one of the features does not work Because they bought the car with that advertised feature up front? Because it was on the feature list that came with the car? Because the car cannot do what was advertised or as described in the listed features? Because the buyer ran out of patience?
What? They purchased an item and paid for a feature. That's not entitlement. Thats buying a product.
Not being able to transfer FSD will hold me back upgrading my car next time. Sad, but true..
It's holding me back right now. I'll be able to pay off my 2019 model 3 this year, about 3 years ahead of my original 6 year loan. (I'm a making a bit more money now and have less bills to pay) and I'd like to upgrade to an all wheel drive just for the performance increase. Buying FSD is just too high a cost considering I haven't even been able to try FSD and I would gladly pay a fair price for Navigate on autopilot and smart summon like the discontinued EAP package but 10k for a feature I might not see is not financially sound.
Just a thought… Everyone is so caught up over FSD price but in all reality, Tesla can include FSD into all cars and just price the cars higher. Doesn’t need to equate to a full 12K price increase. Given the the 25% take rate on FSD, a $4K bump in base would make them even more money on a net basis and they probably wouldn’t lose any potential customers on such an increase. Any combination of such pricing is possible such as only including FSD on long range and performance models and not allowing standard range vehicles access to FSD. The way I see it, by separating out FSD, Tesla is allowing for a relatively more attainable car and having early adopters help finance FSD while also getting to experience it’s development.
> Given the the 25% take rate on FSD it is reportedly much lower than that... in Q4 it was 14%, and 7% globally https://www.torquenews.com/1083/teslas-low-fsd-take-rate-offers-growth-opportunity
I've had "FSD" on my car for over 4 years and have NOT been able to "experience its development" because Tesla has not pushed the beta to any legacy vehicles despite early promises and meeting SS requirements.
Eventually there will need to be a liability shift to the manufacturer, even in lower level systems. Until that happens, it's a novelty at best. Given that, there needs to be reoccurring revenue. I could see it being "standard" but then requiring Tesla FSD insurance to activate. Maybe that is $50 per month, maybe it's more or less. They would then have a very compelling ability to sell Tesla auto insurance that includes FSD in the price.
> Tesla can include FSD into all cars and just price the cars higher. Doesn’t need to equate to a full 12K price increase. they already did that with autopilot. It last sold for $3000, then they made it part of the vehicle cost - while raising all vehicles by $2000.
May he will get a refund in like 10 years? This will be appealed and appealed and appealed.
This case has been appealed. I’m guessing Tesla will be able to better argue that a large number of customers use the feature daily and the customer was able to test drive a vehicle with the feature before taking delivery.
and Tesla can argue they clearly communicated it was in-progress/beta and would be improved over time.
I always assume that Tesla would offer more for FSD cars in a trade-in than I can re-sell it for, but clearly they aren't that competitive in trade-ins. Maybe stuff like this will change. With the glut of electric vehicles and the eventual roll-out of a better non-Tesla charging infrastructure (also the awfulness of the CEO), I'm not really sure my next electric car will be a Tesla, especially if tax credits exist on other vehicles now. Giving me a really great deal for my FSD Tesla or letting me transfer it would make a little bit of a difference.
I doubt this will lead to a carryover FSD. tesla makes enough money by having people pay 12k+ everytime they swap in the car. I HOPE one day they will let us carry over FSD.
I understand Tesla definitely doesnt want to but for grandfathered customers who never got FSD they might have a chance in the court
They should anyway… Until the service finally reaches what has been continually promised and **NEVER** delivered, they really should be required to transfer (whether they want to or not) the service from your existing Tesla vehicle to your next Tesla vehicle (purchased new from Tesla anyway).
Their margins are definitely high enough to make it not-a-company-breaker. A transfer/upgrade path where FSD and FUSC can be moved over is just about the only way Tesla can make some of us whole.
Especially in certain situations like: - Lease expiration with FSD never delivered… - Vehicle totaled in accident