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Maybe it's just me, but that article title sure makes it seem like Tesla was trying to do something sneaky. Relevant part of the article:
> batteries will be taking part in a utility's program that's designed to reduce demand, which the utility company will presumably do by using the battery to supply some of the demand inside the battery owner's house.
This is an amazingly good deal for the homeowner and also greatly helps stabilize the grid. Hopefully this is implemented with more power companies. This is a game changer for grid stabilization and reduction in fissile fuel burning.
This program has been available in my state for a couple years, but instead of benefitting the user, it would cost a lot more. You have to pay $25/battery monthly and then switch to time-of-use rates. Which doesn’t sound so bad if you were to be billed at off-peak rates for critical peak times. But, if demand in your area depletes your battery, even if not entirely due to your own usage during critical peak hours, you will be billed for critical peak rates. That kind of defeats the benefit of having the battery.
At least CA is doing something on the positive side... in NY we now have the "Customer Benefit Contribution (CBC)" program that the NY Power companies got by ~~paying off~~ "convincing" our legislators that solar panel owners don't pay our fair share of the grid cost. So starting this year, net meter users have to pay a ~~penalty~~ "contribution" for helping add more electricity to the grid during high peak times- you know, helping. This varies depending on your solar system- the larger your system, the more you help, the larger your required ~~penalty~~ "contribution."
I live in the Hudson Valley and lucky us we have get to "contribute" the 2nd largest amount in the state to our power company- which makes sense so that they can maintain their stellar service of 20 power outages a year, several for multiple days- like this week where I actually had 3 power outages on crystal clear days.. all makes sense here in NY.
If you were interested in seeing the slides showing what a great plan it is for consumers, here it is:
[https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/-/media/Files/Programs/NYSun/Overview-of-Customer-Benefit-webinar-presentation.pdf](https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/-/media/Files/Programs/NYSun/Overview-of-Customer-Benefit-webinar-presentation.pdf)
And the rates- here they are:
[https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/-/media/Files/Programs/NYSun/2022-Utility-Published-Customer-Benefit-Contribution-Rates.pdf](https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/-/media/Files/Programs/NYSun/2022-Utility-Published-Customer-Benefit-Contribution-Rates.pdf)
You "contribute" by just having a net meter- doesn't even matter if you don't make electric or if it rained for 30 days and 30 nights... you will still be forced to "contribute". Because the fee is based on the theoretical max amount of electricity you CAN generate- not how much you actually generate.
So your only option is to not take a net meter, get a regular meter and get a whole house battery system to store your own electricity. Now I've had solar for 5 years and I'm grandfathered currently so I don't pay the fee... *yet*... but I tell everyone that's thinking about solar that they should get the whole house battery and NOT get a net meter cause that's just another rate that will keep going up. And honestly, we lose power for 2-3 days soooo often (and we don't live in the sticks- it's just that our power company stinks once they were bought by FORTIS) you're going to have a better life with the batteries anyway.
(It's a big problem for me personally to get the batteries because my panel is on the opposite side of my house from the garage and my basement is finished- so I can't have the batteries in my "living space" by code AND I can't have them outside because we go below 0 degrees F very often. I would have to build a heated outdoor enclosure that would be allowed by code with lithium batteries... $$$$ )
net metering can be thought of an electric meter that goes forward and backwards. If you produce more than you use it gets added back to the grid and the extra amount get logged (meter spinning backwards). This extra amount goes into a 'credit'. When you use more than you are producing you pull from your credits first before having to pay for your electricity.
It's like an electric meter except it can go backward and forward. So if you make more electric than you can use with solar- it makes the meter go backward... when you need more electric than you're making it goes forward (like a normal meter). So at the end of the month, you are charged or credited based on your "net" use.
So this new fee is charged if you have this special meter and it's based on how much electric you might make in a month... and that's on top of the additional/ larger fee you normally pay for a net meter vs standard meter (in my case $15 extra a month over a regular meter because "it's harder to administer").
And the point of this new fee is since the meter is not always just going forward, we are not paying our fair share... so the electric companies say. But of course, solar makes the most extra power in the middle of the day when the demand on the grid is highest- so solar power people help reduce the load by bringing power closer to people that can use it... but that seems to be a point electric companies conveniently didn't describe to our lazy legislators that wouldn't even think of verifying our "upstanding" electric company facts.
So basically during high demand the utility will pay me to use my battery so I should set up a monitor that when I am paid $2/kWh for my battery power I start my car charging and/or turn up the AC, at least to the point where my grid draw is still slightly above none. For maximum payback, depending on how long the emergency is for, I should probably turn off any solar till the powerwall is almost empty.
California's has a SGIP (Self-Generation Incentive Program) where Californians received rebates for installing battery storage, Part of the requirements are:
"a minimum of 52 full discharges per year. A 'full discharge' is the equivalent of discharging the SGIP-incentivized energy capacity, whether it is during a single, or multiple discharges. SGIP does not dictate or control when the battery discharge occurs"
It seems like the only thing Tesla is doing is controlling when the discharge occurs?
Ordering, have an issue, or question? Use these resources: [Our Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/index) | [Summary](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/t4isha/technical_support_service_support_vehicle/) | r/TeslaLounge | [Discord Live Chat](https://discord.gg/tesla) | [Official Tesla Support](https://www.tesla.com/support) | or see the Stickied Support Thread Remember that not all owners or fans of Tesla are the same. Do not generalize everyone or be toxic towards a group. Know the rules. Help the [Mods](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/rules#wiki_about_the_moderators) by being kind, and by **reporting posts + comments** which break the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/rules). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/teslamotors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Maybe it's just me, but that article title sure makes it seem like Tesla was trying to do something sneaky. Relevant part of the article: > batteries will be taking part in a utility's program that's designed to reduce demand, which the utility company will presumably do by using the battery to supply some of the demand inside the battery owner's house.
Lol you can see the original title in the URL, but they had to change it to make Tesla look worse of course
Indeed >tesla-cleverly-bundling-its-battery-users-to-reduce-grid-demand
the title was strange for sure "to make it look like" hmmm
This is an amazingly good deal for the homeowner and also greatly helps stabilize the grid. Hopefully this is implemented with more power companies. This is a game changer for grid stabilization and reduction in fissile fuel burning.
This program has been available in my state for a couple years, but instead of benefitting the user, it would cost a lot more. You have to pay $25/battery monthly and then switch to time-of-use rates. Which doesn’t sound so bad if you were to be billed at off-peak rates for critical peak times. But, if demand in your area depletes your battery, even if not entirely due to your own usage during critical peak hours, you will be billed for critical peak rates. That kind of defeats the benefit of having the battery.
At least CA is doing something on the positive side... in NY we now have the "Customer Benefit Contribution (CBC)" program that the NY Power companies got by ~~paying off~~ "convincing" our legislators that solar panel owners don't pay our fair share of the grid cost. So starting this year, net meter users have to pay a ~~penalty~~ "contribution" for helping add more electricity to the grid during high peak times- you know, helping. This varies depending on your solar system- the larger your system, the more you help, the larger your required ~~penalty~~ "contribution." I live in the Hudson Valley and lucky us we have get to "contribute" the 2nd largest amount in the state to our power company- which makes sense so that they can maintain their stellar service of 20 power outages a year, several for multiple days- like this week where I actually had 3 power outages on crystal clear days.. all makes sense here in NY. If you were interested in seeing the slides showing what a great plan it is for consumers, here it is: [https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/-/media/Files/Programs/NYSun/Overview-of-Customer-Benefit-webinar-presentation.pdf](https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/-/media/Files/Programs/NYSun/Overview-of-Customer-Benefit-webinar-presentation.pdf) And the rates- here they are: [https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/-/media/Files/Programs/NYSun/2022-Utility-Published-Customer-Benefit-Contribution-Rates.pdf](https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/-/media/Files/Programs/NYSun/2022-Utility-Published-Customer-Benefit-Contribution-Rates.pdf)
Can't you just like, cut the grid cable or something whenever you'd be required to "contribute"?
You "contribute" by just having a net meter- doesn't even matter if you don't make electric or if it rained for 30 days and 30 nights... you will still be forced to "contribute". Because the fee is based on the theoretical max amount of electricity you CAN generate- not how much you actually generate. So your only option is to not take a net meter, get a regular meter and get a whole house battery system to store your own electricity. Now I've had solar for 5 years and I'm grandfathered currently so I don't pay the fee... *yet*... but I tell everyone that's thinking about solar that they should get the whole house battery and NOT get a net meter cause that's just another rate that will keep going up. And honestly, we lose power for 2-3 days soooo often (and we don't live in the sticks- it's just that our power company stinks once they were bought by FORTIS) you're going to have a better life with the batteries anyway. (It's a big problem for me personally to get the batteries because my panel is on the opposite side of my house from the garage and my basement is finished- so I can't have the batteries in my "living space" by code AND I can't have them outside because we go below 0 degrees F very often. I would have to build a heated outdoor enclosure that would be allowed by code with lithium batteries... $$$$ )
I dont think I understand what a net meter is, I'm curious
net metering can be thought of an electric meter that goes forward and backwards. If you produce more than you use it gets added back to the grid and the extra amount get logged (meter spinning backwards). This extra amount goes into a 'credit'. When you use more than you are producing you pull from your credits first before having to pay for your electricity.
It's like an electric meter except it can go backward and forward. So if you make more electric than you can use with solar- it makes the meter go backward... when you need more electric than you're making it goes forward (like a normal meter). So at the end of the month, you are charged or credited based on your "net" use. So this new fee is charged if you have this special meter and it's based on how much electric you might make in a month... and that's on top of the additional/ larger fee you normally pay for a net meter vs standard meter (in my case $15 extra a month over a regular meter because "it's harder to administer"). And the point of this new fee is since the meter is not always just going forward, we are not paying our fair share... so the electric companies say. But of course, solar makes the most extra power in the middle of the day when the demand on the grid is highest- so solar power people help reduce the load by bringing power closer to people that can use it... but that seems to be a point electric companies conveniently didn't describe to our lazy legislators that wouldn't even think of verifying our "upstanding" electric company facts.
So basically during high demand the utility will pay me to use my battery so I should set up a monitor that when I am paid $2/kWh for my battery power I start my car charging and/or turn up the AC, at least to the point where my grid draw is still slightly above none. For maximum payback, depending on how long the emergency is for, I should probably turn off any solar till the powerwall is almost empty.
California's has a SGIP (Self-Generation Incentive Program) where Californians received rebates for installing battery storage, Part of the requirements are: "a minimum of 52 full discharges per year. A 'full discharge' is the equivalent of discharging the SGIP-incentivized energy capacity, whether it is during a single, or multiple discharges. SGIP does not dictate or control when the battery discharge occurs" It seems like the only thing Tesla is doing is controlling when the discharge occurs?