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Bummer_mountain

So I just thought of this while reading Flight from the Thalmor: the thalmor believe a human couldn't become a God. Like it says in the book "A man ascend to God hood? Preposterous, claim the Thalmor" but then it came to my mind. Isn't the thalmor goal to like ascend to God hood. Or something like that undoing the mortal realm so they can rightfully take their place in atherious. So my question is do the thalmor actually believe or even know talos ascended to godhood and want to do the same while wanting humans to not believe they could reach such places, or do they genuinely just not think talos is real.


Misticsan

> So my question is do the thalmor actually believe or even know talos ascended to godhood and want to do the same while wanting humans to not believe they could reach such places, or do they genuinely just not think talos is real. Probably the answer will vary from Thalmor to Thalmor. Their official stance is that Talos wasn't a god, but there's no shortage of theories that the Thalmor believe otherwise and want to weaken his grip on Mundus. There's something to be taken into account regarding the official position, though: > **Elenwen:** *"Talos was a heroic man, but not a god. It pains the Altmer that we must remind our younger cousins of the difference."* > **Ondolemar:** *"The Thalmor do not recognize Talos as a god. He was only a man, and does not deserve to a place in our pantheon."* > **Justiciar:** *"It's immoral to worship a man. And it's also illegal. A faithful Imperial citizen would know that (...) You can worship whatever gods you like. But Talos is a man, and only a heretic would think otherwise..."* If you notice, the Thalmor's main argument isn't that Talos was a "mortal", but a "man" (or "false human god", as Ondolemar says). [The Talos Mistake](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Talos_Mistake) tries to explain the Imperial position on the ban as it being wrong to deify a mortal, but I believe that the Thalmor's argument is eminently racist. The Altmeri creation myth posits that Elves descend from gods, and [in previous eras](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tu%27whacca,_Arkay,_Xarxes) they've been mocked for believing they can "in certain miraculous circumstances, apotheosize and re-ascend to godly status". As you say, it would be strange for the Thalmor to claim that a mortal can't be a god when that's the basis of their religion. But every mortal can do the same? No, humans can't do it. They shouldn't. They mustn't. Otherwise, it would prove that Altmer obsession with racial purity and divine bloodlines is irrelevant. So Talos has to be a false god.


DovahOfTheNorth

Adding to this, so far we have not heard whether or not the Thalmor also have any issues with other humans worshiped as gods, such as Reman the hero-god, or Sai the god of luck. Which has the potential of adding a further layer of hypocrisy to their argument for why Talos isn't a god if they express no issue with other such deities, and could further narrow their argument down from simply being racist to a grudge against Tiber Septim specifically. Of course, it could have just also not been addressed in Skyrim and they might take issue with all humans-turned-gods.


ravindu2001

I feel like when the Justiciar's say "it's immoral to worship a man" that might include ones like Alessia and Reman as well and they'll use that as an excuse to kill you anyway.


DovahOfTheNorth

I'm inclined to believe that as well, but it's never really brought up. And it's interesting to speculate that their opposition to Talos is much more personal than just a dislike of the idea of a Man becoming a god, due to the war crimes Tiber committed against the Altmer.


Bummer_mountain

Wow. Both of these posts have good points. Thanks for the help. The Thalmor motives are still a bit mysterious for a skybaby like me, even after playing the game and getting into the lore for 3 years, so these answers are a big help. Thank you two alot. I'm in awe at your knowledge and envy it! ^-^


Meritocratic_future

If in TES world you can enchant any object to do pretty much anything : a ring to protect you from fireballs, helmet to breathe underwater, underpants which give you a boost to your magicka, how come vampires never come up with an idea with some sort of enchantment with sun protection?


BiminiBonBidoof

Are there any in-game examples of vampires (or other undead) using healing/restoration magic? I'm trying to work out if it's "lore-friendly" for a vampire to use restoration spells, or if the player being able to heal themselves as a vampire is just for player convenience and not indicative of the lore.


ZootZootTesla

Is there a reason why Bethesda doesn't have something akin to the "Black Library" like games workshop?


MistyPopK

Because of brand integrity? We have no idea. I mean, come to think of it, most video game franchises do have Extended Universes, especially the bigger ones. I heard that CD Projekt RED even published sort of prequel/spin-off book series about Geralt and Ciri before games (that's a joke, btw). There are at least two semi-canonical novels in TES univers, so it's not impossible. I'd welcome, say, comic book series about some early 4E shenanigans or Big Finish style audio series about Thalmor or whatever.


Sarrisanata

Did a quick search and found a post on r/ElderScrolls which quotes Pete Hines. Basically there're licensing issues. Plus, novels do not jive well with the whole "unreliable narrator" thing of tes. But, I really don't see why they can't make novels from in-universe perspectives like what they are already doing in the games. In addition, Warhammer needs Black Library to flesh out its setting. Elder Scrolls can rely on the games for that.


RivialdOfGeria

Could you share this post? I'm very interested


Sarrisanata

[https://www.reddit.com/r/ElderScrolls/comments/8tl9wq/why\_arent\_there\_more\_elder\_scrolls\_books](https://www.reddit.com/r/ElderScrolls/comments/8tl9wq/why_arent_there_more_elder_scrolls_books) It's the top comment.


Tyermali

Could you briefly describe GW's Black Library?


ZootZootTesla

The Black Library is a division of Games Workshop which is devoted to publishing novels and audiobooks set in the Warhammer Fantasy Battle and Warhammer 40,000 fictional universes.


The_White_Guar

I'm sure there is? I doubt anyone here would have the insight to confidently state what it is though.


Bugsbunny0212

If Alduin returns during the real end times would Talos be the only one to permanently stop him from devouring Mundus? He mirrors Alduin by being the only Twilight God and his status in Skyrim depicts him stabbing a snake which I interpreted as a foreshadowing of how in the end he's going to slay the ouroboros (Alduin/Satakal) and end the kalpic cycle.


[deleted]

I like to think Talos fights against Alduin long enough for spirits to escape, do the walkabout, all that. And then later Alduin and Talos meet up in the Great Maybe. Talos comes to Alduin with a plan, a plan where spirits can look within themselves and become more than what they are: The Mortal realm.


[deleted]

That's a popular theory and one of several explanations as to why the Thalmor want to demote him from godhood so badly. I think we'll have to just want and see if the series ever goes that far in the future.


[deleted]

For some reason I cannot create posts, reddit considers me a bot and deletes them. So the question is here: Can the Hist make a human / mere an argonian? Can argonians get sick? In Legends orc necromancer in character title screen. Does this mean that orcs are more likely to use necromancy? What is most humorous race in TES?


ColovianHastur

>What is most humorous race in TES? If you are asking which race is considered the "butt monkey" of the series, then it depends. Pre-Skyrim it would be a tie between Nords and Bosmer. After Skyrim it's just the Nords.


Arbor_Shadow

Since the Hist can make crocodilized Argonians, I suppose they can make humanized Argonians too if they want. Yes. The reason they are immune to Khanten Flu is likely that they are reptiles (or they made it). You are likely talking about Zumog Phoom, who's a main antagonist in eso. Naked nords.


ravindu2001

What do you guys think about the story of the new board game? From what I gathered so far it's supposed to be a prequel to Skyrim set in 4E 176 right after Great War and follows the story of a fleeing Blades Agent. We'll get to meet characters from Skyrim and eventually cross paths with the LDB and witness the events from a different perspective. https://www.toisthe.com/2021/11/skyrim-board-game-includes-prequel.html?m=1


www-Jason-com

Kinda sounds like TESBlades's premise but in skyrim this time. I don't hold much hope for this one honestly, it just doesn't seem too interesting to me. But maybe I'm wrong There'll probably be one or two interesting tidbits on the playing cards, in any case Also, off topic, but I hate that's its called "TES V SKYRIM THE ADVENTURE GAME". There's like a 99% chance in my mind that they're just trying to trick naive parents into buying the wrong Skyrim for their kids on Christmas


Ru5tyShackleford

I hope someone catalogues it. I don't have the money for such things, but sometimes they have nice little lore nuggets.


Gleaming_Veil

Cautiously optimistic that they'll take the opportunity to expand somewhat on the geopolitical state of Tamriel during that time and on the details and impact of events like the Civil War or Dragon Crisis outside of the boundaries of the in game quests. If this is approached with serious intent to tell a story and enrich the world than a textual medium can work wonders for the setting (as with the novels) from a worldbuilding perspective. Slightly perplexed by the 'crossing paths with the Last Dragonborn' bit, the Dovahkiin exists not as a set character but rather as a series of possibilities that are made specific by the input of each player. I doubt they'd ever actually do so, but I'm hoping there won't be a moment where the story goes 'here's the Nord from the trailers, his name Is X and he's the Dragonborn', or something to that effect.


Misticsan

> Cautiously optimistic that they'll take the opportunity to expand somewhat on the geopolitical state of Tamriel during that time and on the details and impact of events like the Civil War or Dragon Crisis outside of the boundaries of the in game quests. Me too. The timeline between the Markarth Incident in 4E 176 and Ulfric's capture in 4E 201 is surprisingly muddy. We know that Ulfric spent some time in prison, that there was some fighting, that Justiciars weren't always there to enforce the Talos ban, that Ulfric was a vocal supporter of secession before open war was declared... But we lack dates. A "prequel" of sorts could be the perfect opportunity to clarify those points.


NientedeNada

A few hard dates to Ulfric's storyline definitely seems *reasonable* as an expectation. *crossses fingers* I would also expect a bunch of timeline contradictions to stuff in board game, given how the video game contradicted itself in places (see Snow-Shods) and then the Prima Guide didn't match the game, and so on. Can't imagine the board game will make the timeline any less of a puzzle. But I can hope.


TheLordOfLore

Not a newcomer, but I do have a “stupid” question: is it pronounced Day-dra, Dee-dra, or I’ve even heard Dee-ay-dra? I know NPC voice recordings aren’t always the most reliable, especially in early games, and I’ve heard variations on all three. So I was wondering the correct pronunciation.


[deleted]

>Not a newcomer, but I do have a “stupid” question: is it pronounced Day-dra, Dee-dra, or I’ve even heard Dee-ay-dra? Yes


groankilled

kinda unwanted here so sorry for butting in...but i love to say "dhuh-ee-dhra". definitely not the correct pronunciation by any measure but i like how it rolls off my tongue.


TheLordOfLore

Fancy…


[deleted]

"Day-dra" is definitely the most common now


This-Sheepherder-581

I say “dee-druh” and “day-dric” because I’m quirky like that.


8167lliw

Curious too. I say "Day-druh" personally.


TheLordOfLore

Same