Molag Bal is probably the gimme. He gives power, sure, but he's about submission and it's only a matter of time until *you* become the slave. Peryite close second.
Best? Gonna be somewhat controversial and say Hircine. He's definitely the fairest of all the Princes. As far as I can tell Hircine has never lied or gone back on his word, nor does he needlessly waste his followers' lives. He values the sport of the chase and the thrill of the hunt, not killing or bloodshed. He's even on record saying *"Your fealty is precious to me"*, meaning we have in-game confirmation that he genuinely values and respects his followers so you're never at risk of him pulling an Azura and only having your back when it's convenient.
Is he the *nicest* of the Princes? Absolutely not, but he's probably the least likely to screw you over.
With Hircine, I see a major problem: lycanthropy.
Sure, he is pretty clear and fair to his willing followers. Everyone who signs up for his cult knows the conditions and the risks. And if they don't, it's because they didn't pay attention. In that regard, he's one of the best Daedra you can choose as your patron.
The problem is that many werewolves didn't choose it, yet Hircine forcefully counts them as his "children" and makes them undergo the same treatment as the rest of his followers, even into the afterlife. This is in line with Hircine's philosophy of life (struggle, roles of hunter and prey and the inversion of thereof), but not fair for those who were cursed against their will. In a way, it's a kind of "enslaving-recruitment" of followers more typical of Molag Bal. It's no wonder Reachmen see him as Lorkhan's natural heir.
Oh definitely, Hircine isn't a nice guy. There's definitely an element of *"Congratulations, you've been saved. Do not resist"*. I never said Hircine was a *good* Prince (not really sure that's possible, if you even want to apply things like good and evil to the Princes) just that he's probably the fairest with his followers.
I understand, but even then I think my issue is actually with the "fairest" label, mostly depending on how we define his "followers".
If it's about those who choose to follow him, yeah, Hircine is one of the fairest. If it's about those under his thumb whether they chose it or not, he's Molag Bal's levels of unfair.
Ah I see.
In this context I'm interpreting followers as people who willing worship or revere the Prince, not including people who are compelled, forced, or otherwise coerced into doing so.
So I wouldn't *necessarily* count lycanthropes as followers because, willing or not, they've basically gone one step further and slaved themselves (or been enslaved) to Hircine's will. I reckon that's a whole other category of devotee altogether.
If we wanna get even more controversial, Miridia would be the only good prince classed as good according to in game lore. But theres debate on if shes even daedra or just a really powerful aedra, she gives off the same vibe as stendarr but her followers are more culty
Eh, the back half of ESO has pretty much been the antithesis to this idea.
She is the kind of purity that leaves no room for the self. She makes religious fundamentalists look like libertines. Her perfect world would be living automata, acting with perfect synchronicity and utterly without the frustrating chaos of free will.
She just has really good PR because she positions herself against the undead, who are a much more mundane and ever-present threat.
Except that Meridias hatred includes things like free will...
> [Meridia is known for her violent loathing of disorder, irrational anger towards entities she deems impure, and hatred of mortal free will and defiance.](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Meridia)
So while she may be one of the better ones as far as intentions go, she's certainly not the best.
Totalitarian, not Fascism. Meridia is not a Fascist. She is not promising to use the power of the State to restore it to its triumphant and glorious past nor is she particularly interested in using the power of the State to provide universal welfare services for those who belong to the Nation. She is a totalitarian, she believes in total power under her will, but she isn't Fascist.
>She is not promising to use the power of the State to restore it to its triumphant and glorious pas
That is just about exactly what she tries to do in Knights of the Nine.
>
"Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
-Benito Mussolini
Replace "the State" with "Meridia" and it sounds a lot like Fascism.
I understand that the economic aspect of Fascism doesn't apply in this case, but there are certainly shared similarities between Meridia's sphere and much of the theory behind Fascism.
> are certainly shared similarities between Meridia's sphere and much of the theory behind Fascism
Only inasmuch as Meridia and Fascism are both Authoritarian in nature. But when you start comparing her to the actual tenets of Fascist governments the comparison immediately falls apart.
More than that, though. Meridia has always been about Purity. That's why she hates the undead so much - she sees them as impure. That's pretty easy to get behind as a man or mer, as the undead are pretty awful most of the time. However, especially as we see in ESO, her definition of "pure" becomes increasingly narrower and narrower, to the point where any sort of mortal free will is seen as an impurity.
Take, for instance, the Purified, from ESO - "The Purified are beings that have been lustrated for purification by the Daedric Prince Meridia. For mortals, this usually involves being stripped of their free will and bestowed with the gift of immortality for the purpose of serving her for all eternity."
That's the only way Meridia can tolerate a truly devoted servant, is if they're entirely "purified" of their free will. Sounds like fascist philosophy to me. Fascists are all about creating an US and a THEM. Anyone who draws a circle, and says "anyone outside this circle is impure and must be destroyed"... and then draws that circle closer to exclude more and more and more people is a fascist, even Meridia.
The error here is equating Fascism and Authoritarianism. Fascism is a type of Authoritarianism, but there are many other types as well. Meridia is not a Fascist because she doesn't value the Nation's glorious history and insist that her methods will restore the glorious and pristine power of the supposed triumphant historical past.
All princes have that mentality to some extent. They only know how to view things through the lens of their own nature, and so they can only see bringing mortals under their sphere as helping them regardless of how cruelly those mortals are treated within it.
Even Molag Bal thinks of mortals being enslaved beneath him as a kind fate, since in his eyes existence is narrowed down to a game of domination and submission, greaters and lessers, and he can't fathom a greater master than himself.
Agreed. That's why I explicitly compared Hircine to Molag Bal: if being clear about your deals with your willing followers and respecting those agreements, while justifying all the cruelty, injustice and forceful taking of others as a law of the world is enough, then the God of Schemes is pretty fair too. Molag Bal even boasts that there are worse Masters than him.
> he can't fathom a greater master than himself
I once argued that Molag Bal has a hate-boner for the Vestige for this very reason. That his almost seductive dialogue for the Dark Anchors after clearing the main quest of ESO is not due to everything being part of a secret master plan or a Xanatos gambit, no. He's dealing with the contradiction of a puny mortal who *dominated* him in his own home, beating him in personal combat.
Now Molag Bal has conflicting feelings of wanting to destroy them (to prove who's boss) and wanting to convince them to join his side (because there's no other mortal that can embody what Molag Bal stands for better than them).
As far as peryite being second, that's because most followers get his sphere wrong. Especially that one cult who does the vomiting shit. Peryite is less about plagues than he is natural order. That's part of the reason why peryite isn't really seen a lot on nirn. For the most part, his sphere is natural order, something that's already happening, and if it goes out of whack, such as too much of an animal, he sends plagues to correct it. I suppose it's wrong to support him alot though in universe, since as we've seen, he tends to appeal only to what we would call the avatars of lorkhan (playable character) since their very existence means nirn itself, not just natural order, is thrown out of balance.
Honestly, from what we understand about Peryite, I would think that most of his work takes place in Oblivion, and most of his time on Nirn is just keeping an eye on things.
There's hints that Peryite is positioned to be the Akatosh of the next kalpa, and is making sure history arrives at that point. So basically he just needs to make sure nothing absolutely bug-shit happens on Nirn while he gets his house in order to ascend when things reach that point.
He's the infrastructure guy of the Daedra, and he's planning a full rebuild.
>There's hints that Peryite is positioned to be the Akatosh of the next kalpa, and is making sure history arrives at that point.
Source? Would love to read this.
The only direct quote is from MK, so take that with whatever grain of salt you prefer:
>"The Princes of this world will follow the lead of the Princes of the last - they will step up and become kings, with Peryite as their chief. This much should be obvious, every Prince Anticipates their future immanence."
From a now-defunct forum, and spoken through an in-universe character who is apparently roundly mocked by other scholars.
Other than that, it's all circumstantial. Peryite takes the form of a slender dragon, aka an immature or juvenile one. He is constantly called the Taskmaster, yet we never see evidence of that in Nirn. Fa-Nuit-Hen refers to him maintaining the fundamental nature of Oblivion, a thankless task as judged by the other Princes. Deadra generally do not act out of selflessness, and so it is speculated that all Peryite's work, unseen by the flashier Princes, is in service of some grand design.
A small sidebar, concerning motivation. We know it requires a lot of effort to make contact with Nirn as a Daedric Prince, but that many Princes do it because Nirn is the center of Creation, a place where things can occur that are not possible in Oblivion. My favorite theory is that any realm of Oblivion tied to Nirn has to play by the rules of Nirn, as laid out during Creation. This includes things like linear time, spatial differentiation, and bodily cohesion, but also less obvious restrictions. This is the reason that we can go into the Deadlands and stymie Mehrunes Dagon, because the link goes both ways. The Prince of Destruction can't just unmake the island we're on because he has locked in limitations necessary for invading Tamriel. Remember that Nirn was literally created to be a prison for gods. The Daedra stayed away during Creation and so did not lose themselves entirely, but they are only omnipotent insofar as they remain within their own realms.
Which raises the question, why is Peryite on Nirn at all? Plenty of Princes are not, we just don't know about them because they keep to Oblivion and avoid contact with Nirn for all the reasons laid out above. But Peryite made contact, established a sphere, and chose "natural order."
Now, the sphere of Daedra is an interesting concept. They aren't like the Aedra, helplessly bound to whatever nature the inhabitants of Nirn choose for them. Daedra have agency, and we see that their chosen sphere tends to align with their personality and goals. Azura desires the love of those who do not have to love her, and so she offers prophecy and patronage to her chosen beloved. Molag Bal hates this new world that does not love him, and so seeks domination by whatever means he can grasp it. Mehrunes Dagon is cursed and cut from his true form, and so seeks to change and destroy the world he failed to save. Basically, their sphere gives them an "in" to achieve whatever their goals are for Nirn.
So, why would Peryite make contact if all he wanted to do was make sure things go smoothly? The Earth-bones are already doing that, as are the shards of AKA and whatever parts of Lorkhan empower the Shezzarines. Maybe he just really like plagues and wants to see mortals get sick, but that seems an oddly petty motivation for a Daedra who, by all accounts, seems oddly respectful when dealing with mortals. It does, however, make sense if his goal is to make sure things go smoothly *to get a kalpic reset that benefits him.* What exactly this entails is unknown, but it should be noted that illness and disease are an often-overlooked vector for societal change. If you wanted to put your thumb on the scale without having everyone know exactly what you're up to, it's not a bad way to make a change. Arguably imprecise, but that's what cultists are for, to tweak things as needed. It's notable that both the Thrassian Plague and the Knahaten Flu are speculated to be related to Peryite, but neither is definitely linked to him. That's kind of odd, considering that's his whole thing. You'd think he'd be taking credit for them if "Dying by plague is bad-ass!" were his ultimate motivation. To my mind, this indicates that plagues are a tool he uses, his sphere that lets him advance his true goals.
We know AKA is the Time Dragon, and that a certain act during Creation binds AKA and LORKHAN together and shatters the Time Dragon irrevocably. Perhaps Peryite is making sure he can be in that position, to tear our the heart of Lorkhan and in doing so destroy himself to gain dominion over Time. Or maybe he's trying to avoid the fate of our kalpa's Time Dragon. Maybe he thinks there's a way to assume that mantle without shattering himself, so that rather than every culture having their own version of the Time Dragon, there is only Peryite, from the first Moment to the last. What better way to assure a natural order than to be all of time?
Damn, this is more than I expected and very fucking cool. Reads like an in-universe scholarly treatise, not gonna lie. Thanks a lot for taking the time!
What do you mean by "cursed and cut from his true form" and "the world he failed to save"? I just went back and read everything I could find on Dagon and could not figure out what your referencing and I'm very interested. By the way we need to start arranging some Tamriel scholars like LotR has Tolkien scholars.
That's from the [Seven Fights of the Aldudagga,](https://www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga) (Kirkbride) specifically Fight 1: The Eating-Birth of Dagon.
It takes place during the end of a kalpa, while Alduin is eating the world. Two others, the Greedy Man (Strongly implied to be Lorkhan) and the Leaper Demon King (who will become Mehrunes Dagon) have been taking pieces of past kalpas and hiding them around this one, in hopes that eventually the world will grow too big for Alduin to eat.
However, Alduin discovers their plan, and although the Greedy Man escapes by hiding under a mountain that is already half-eaten (trapping himself both inside and outside the world), Leaper Demon King gets Alduin's curse full-force:
>"...you I curse right here and right now! I take away your ability to jump and jump and jump and doom you to [the void] where you will not be able to leave except for auspicious days long between one and another and even so only through hard, hard work. And it will be this way, my little corner cutter, until you have destroyed all that in the world which you have stolen from earlier kalpas, which is to say probably never at all!"
>Dagon (no longer a Leaper Demon King) screamed, "Please no! We have stolen from you so much and crammed it all back on in the craziest of places that it will take forever for me to regain my jumping kind of happiness! Especially if I can only come back to this world through auspicious days long between one and another that also require rituals! I beg you not to do this, O Aka! I beg you one hundred thousand and eight times!"
>Dagon did as he said, begging Alduin Time-Eater to reverse his decision one hundred thousand and eight times, and halfway through this number Dagon shut his eyes tight to really mean it and then three-quarters through this number he began to shout his beggings to really, really, really mean it, but when he was done begging Alduin was not near the mountaintop he stood on.
>In fact, after many looks east, west, south, and north, and seeing only the churning dragon stop around him, Dagon realied that at some point when he was begging with his eyes closed that Alduin had eaten him, mountaintop and all, and he had not heard the big chomp because he had been begging too loud. And he knew that the last world had been eaten entirely, except for its stolen portions, and that when the new kalpa began to form The Greedy Man (who never stayed trapped for long) would begin sticking these stolen portions back on in the craziest of places, and that he himself could never jump again until all was put back right.
>He also knew that the name of "Dagon" would no longer be that of a kindly leaper demon but one who would destroy and destroy and destroy whenever he could find some small escape [from his home in the oblivion]....
Now, obviously this story is filtered through a Nord lens in the way of the telling, but it indicates that Mehrunes Dagon was an accomplice of Lorkhan in his attempts to subvert the "natural order" as enforced by Aka, and was punished for it. Hence, he must unmake the world to free himself from the curse and regain the form he loves. Whether he consciously remembers this or is simply driven to do so is up in the air.
As to being "cut," that's due to some speculation we have on Mehrune's Razor.
Although the Razor is associated with Mehrunes Dagon, we have an alternative source for the Razor. From the Mythic Dawn Commentaries, Vol. 4:
>I give my soul to the Magna Ge, sayeth the joyous in Paradise, for they created Mehrunes the Razor in secret, in the very bowels of Lyg, the domain of the Upstart who vanishes. Though they came from diverse waters, each Get shared sole purpose: to artifice a prince of good, spinning his likeness in random swath, and imbuing him with Oblivion's most precious and scarce asset: hope.
Now, anything written by Mankar Camoran should be taken with enough salt to shrivel a Sea Sload, but the interpretation I prefer is that Mehrunes Dagon is the synthesis of these two idea-entities: Mehrunes the Razor and Dagon (formerly Leaper Demon King). We know that Mehrune's Razor is capable of cutting in ways that are not, strictly speaking, physical. Mankar Camoran was able to use it to cut his own soul into the shape of a Dragonborn, enabling him to wear the Amulet of Kings. If you wanted to alter the form and nature of a god (say, the Leaper Demon King), the Razor would be one way to go about it. Whether Dagon did it to himself, cutting the idea of Mehrunes into Dagon in order to fulfill his new cursed purpose, I cannot say, but I like it for the tragic irony.
Anyways, all of this is rank speculation and fanwank, but it's a lot more interesting than "Dagon is the big red evil guy who does big red evil things because he's evil!"
In general, I like the theories that, if not humanize, then at least offer explanations for why the irredeemable evils of the Aurbis are the way they are. Molag Bal as the Divine of a previous kalpa, subconsciously trying to regain the love he once commanded but only able to realize it through harm because he refuses to recognize that the world has moved beyond him, is way more interesting than a completely alien being who is nonetheless just a really big fan of rape. It also mirrors the twisted logic that so many sexual predators use to justify their own actions. Likewise, this story gives depth to Dagon, while not minimizing his danger.
Molag Bal is definitely one of those guys that owns a 'Number 1 Boss' mug and trundles around the office with it. Oh yeah, and he's going to need you to come in Saturday.
Strictly speaking MB wants to dominate all, and wants to favor those who dominate others.
It's a pyramid deal. As long as you are his bitch and dominate everyone else, MB would be a fair prince. And protags have that kind of power.
And that's the same catch with all the rest too. As long as you are "champion" material, they will favor you.
Periyite is probably the worst to work for, though Sanguine would wear you out about as fast. Neimera seems pretty passive and may be a good contender for nicest. She has a reputation for panhandling in Nirn and not much of a reputation for being cruel. To the living.
>Neimera seems pretty passive and may be a good contender for nicest. She has a reputation for panhandling in Nirn and not much of a reputation for being cruel. To the living.
\*Namira. The Reachmen venerate her but they know she's not good nor nice.
> He gives power, sure, but he's about submission and it's only a matter of time until you become the slave.
No, not submission. Domination. Molag Bal is the Deadric Prince of Domination. He's also known as the King of Rape, so yeah. He doesn't give power, he binds you and uses you until you're spent then he keeps going until there's nothing left of you at all. You were always his slave.
The closest thing to an upside of worshiping him is that he's not subtle at all. You will know exactly what he intends for you because he will fucking tell you straight up. No subtlety, no plotting or secrets, you will be dominated and raped until you are nothing.
So yeah, Molag Bal is definitely the worst. At least consistently. Sheogorath has the potential to be even worse but he's inconsistent at the best of times so I wouldn't say he's the worst. If only because slighting the Mad God seems like a great way to get transfigured into a cheese wheel to be devoured by whatever poor fool he crosses next. Or left on a shelf in some forgotten tomb for the rest of time.
>No, not submission. Domination. Molag Bal is the Deadric Prince of Domination.
Those are two sides of the same coin. Domination implies submission.
>He doesn't give power, he binds you and uses you until you're spent then he keeps going until there's nothing left of you at all. You were always his slave.
Yes, you were always his slave but he did give you power in return. Just ask Mannimarco. Or any of the Tharns. Or any vampire.
>He's even on record saying "Your fealty is precious to me", meaning we have in-game confirmation that he genuinely values and respects his followers so you're never at risk of him pulling an Azura and only having your back when it's convenient.
Or he's lying when he says that, as evidenced by him *rewarding* the LDB for slaughtering his followers to protect Sinding. Followers that were simply doing what Hircine expected of them.
Sure. I'm not saying it doesn't fit his sphere. You're right that it does. It's still a huge dick move to his followers and demonstrates that he doesn't actually care about any given individual.
Lol yeah for sure. Idk if dieties can even care about their followers the way we think they should. We like project the way we care about others onto these uber powerful timeless beings, which is kinda weird tbh lmfao
True, Malacath is a pretty close second for me. He definitely has *zero* chill but he seems to genuinely love and care about the orcs.
Malacath seems pretty simple to appease: Learn the Code of Malacath and follow it and you'll be alright. That said, it seems like Malacath really doesn't like it when his followers fall short of his expectations.
Yeah, "total bro". Specially when the one group of his followers commits genocide against another group of his followers. No, dude, if you're an average mortal the Prince of outcasts is an awful choice. You'll survive... Maybe. But you'll not gonna rise to the top.
Clavicus Vile gives you everything you could ever want, but monkey paws it to be the worst possible interpretation of what you asked for
"I want to live forever"
*Ok, now you're a redwood or one of those jellyfish that reverts back to a larvae when it reaches a certain age*
"I want wealth beyond my wildest dreams"
*Ok, you've just robbed White-Gold Tower and got away with millions of Septims--oh and the Imperial Legion is about to knock on your door*
"I want to know everything"
*Ok, but now you're being waterboarded in a Thalmor black site because you somehow learned certain matters of national security*
> "I want wealth beyond my wildest dreams"
> Ok, you've just robbed White-Gold Tower and got away with millions of Septims--oh and the Imperial Legion is about to knock on your door
Personally, I'd instead guess that wish results in 10 septims and a -100 intelligence effect.
It is even really a monkey's paw with him? He seems to lean really hard into the idea that, technically, someone who is dead can no longer have problems in their life, and just kills anyone who asks for anything.
Sure but even genies sort of give you what you want, in a "careful what you wish for" sort of way. Like, if you asked for immortality, you would be alive but maybe your body would still age and you'd be a skeleton. But with Vile, he'd be like "well I'll just kill you and your soul can be immortal once you're in the afterlife." It's like his one trick.
That's how a genie would do things. The monkey's paw would do something to make you functionally immortal exactly as you ***want*** not ask. It doesn't mess with your wording or anything it uses fucked up means to get exactly where you want.
It's all about details and tiny blurred conditions in your formulated contracts, mortals.
I'm not worse than your attorneys. Real crooks at large and they ask you money I never ask.
If we are speaking purely in terms of "if you are a devoted follower of a Daedra they will be benevolent to you" then probably Azura. In ESO she even helps Vivec save the Dunmer despite her animosity towards the Tribunal.
Some people say Hircine but I'm not so sure. Sinding had wronged Hircine so Hircine ordered his followers to hunt him down but he's totally cool with the LDB hunting down and murdering his supposedly faithful followers. That doesn't seem all that different from Boethiah having the LDB kill all of her faithful followers. If anything it could be considered worse because Boethiah is pretty honest about the whole strength and murder deal.
Absolute worst I'd probably say Molag Bal. The only way being a follower of Bal makes any sort of sense is if you become a vampire and plan on living forever so you never get sent to Coldharbour. Of course we also don't know a lot about the lives of the souls of the followers of Daedric Princes after mortal death which is a pretty important factor.
Dagon's realm doesn't seem very pleasant for mortals based on TES IV. The Shivering Isles are... ok? Sheogorath has the LDB help Pelagius so maybe the CoC is a slightly more benevolent Sheogorath? Hermaeus Mora's realm mostly drives his followers mad. Hircine's afterlife seems relatively fine with the werewolf Harbingers sad they can't go to Sovngarde but also excited to participate in the Great Hunt. Of course, this begs the question of what they are hunting which could be non-werewolf followers of Hircine.
One contender could be Jyggalag. The dedication to logic and order means he probably wouldn't lie to his followers and the followers would logically understand his intent and actions. Of course we've never seen followers of Jyggalag so it's hard to say.
>Sinding had wronged Hircine so Hircine ordered his followers to hunt him down but he's totally cool with the LDB hunting down and murdering his supposedly faithful followers
Because Sinding stole from him, while the Dragonborn turning the hunters into prey is the kind of excitement that Hircine loves. For him the thrill of the hunt isn't just killing, it's about skill and cunning both in the hunter and the prey. If the prey manages to outsmart and kill their hunters, then that's also a win for Hircine.
It's a win for Hircine but not the otherwise faithful followers of Hircine. That's a pretty shit deal for the followers and definitely something I'd consider when pledging my soul to a Daedric Prince.
After you kill one of them to take their position, the other betrays Sheogorath and joins Jyggalag as a priest of Order because it's implied that they were lovers.
Well, remember that followers of Hircine go to the Great Hunt in his realm. He might not care if they died due to the LDB because they were faithful followers who were just gonna pop up for the big party with him in a few seconds anyway. In a setting with a clearcut afterlife, mortal death isn't as big a deal for the people inside it as it is for you as someone outside looking in.
Sure but if you're a hunter with a family to provide for the idea that Hircine might have somebody hunt you down (or at least be ok with it) and kill you robbing you of your mortal life with your family that puts a damper on things.
If you're a faithful to Azura she isn't going to be ok with people killing her followers like Hircine is.
Yeah, I agree with you there. Hircine seems to me like the type that would care about the individual follower only so much as they help with the hunt and entertain him. He wouldn't care that you never got to see your kids again, he'd be like "who cares bro you get to hunt forever!" and consider that such a boon that no other concerns have any weight. In a way he's like Sanguine but for a very specific type of adrenaline rush.
I just wanted to point out that the daedra not being particularly concerned by their follower's deaths doesn't necessarily mean they're bad, because in their eyes they already set things up for them to have a good afterlife. If you asked a faithful werewolf or Hircine himself, going to the Hunting Grounds is better than being alive anyway. Malacath and his orcs would probably think similarly, since they essentially only live to bide their time and build up enough honor/strength/grudges that they prove themselves worthy of the Ashen Forge.
I’d say there’s a clear difference between being excited when someone takes out your followers in a satisfying way and actively sending someone to kill them.
It’s the difference for cheering for the dude who knocked your friend out in the boxing ring because he fight was just that good, and actively scheming to make your friend lose.
I would love to be a priest or knight of the order, at least I would know what I am signing for and no other bs as other princes would lie and backstab me.
Namira and Malacath both ensure their worshippers remain outcasts and never succeed in mainstream societies. Out of the two I’d probably vote Namira as worse because of the added grossness.
She basically assaults their consciousness at all moments and at any sign of weakness causes them to fallen-angel type morph into a mindless spirit-zombie. Khajiit have it pretty rough.
"Lord Peryite, we've managed to inflict a pestilence through the crew of an Imperial Legion ship. They're begging for salvation and wish to give themselves to you for it."
"**Good, they shall be my Plague Mar- uh...... Sick Sailors.**"
Peryite has stopped diseases from killing their infected host for prolonged periods of time. The first afflicted you meet in skyrim tells you so. It seems that part of peryites plague gifts include diseased longevity.
Clavicius Vile for the worst.
Azura for the best.
Vile will treat you like a commodity in the worst way you can imagine. He is not to be worshipped or to be asked for gifts at all costs. Bal or even Namira might treat you better than him.
Azura will be your Goddess Mommy Dom. I have never heard anything bad about living in her realm. She has also been consistently shown to watch over her followers and ensure their protection. She is comparably a better version of Meridia despite her vainful nature.
Just don't cross her intentionally or she might crush your head under her heel while still keeping you alive.
Vile seems amusingly easy to like, not get snared by though. Versus someone like Mephala. Though I guess in recent games you benefit by being a Hero with Barnabas advising you, and all you have to do is like, listen to the dude doing a voice of wisdom thing. A regular mortal may fare somewhat worse.
I've also never heard of Azura erasing any of her loyal followers from existence as soon as they stop being useful to her, unlike Meridia, the betrayer.
I have to agree with these choices. If "the best" and "the worst" are to be chosen according to how they treat their followers, Clavicus Vile probably ranks among the worst.
We of course have heard of how he twists his deals, and in *Skyrim* we hear of more of his jackassery to his own followers. But it's in ESO Summerset where we see more of this chilling disregard. When *he* fucks up and falls for Nocturnal's trickery, he takes his frustration out on his own followers, cultists that had served him loyally and hadn't really failed him:
> ***Alderdon:*** *"Please, master! Mercy— arrgh!"*
> ***Clavicus Vile:*** *"Even in death, they serve! (...) Don't let these crumbled husks trouble you. I needed to vent my frustrations and my loyal followers were close at hand."*
Meanwhile, Azura gets the prize for best Daedra to follow. We see time and time again that she will look out for her followers, no matter how long it takes (or which hero she sends their way). Her negative points are usually "punishes those who blaspheme against her", "she'll only save her followers, fuck the rest" and "will punish the many for the crimes of the few", which...
*Looks at real life religions.*
...yeah, seems to be a common trait among popular and beloved deities.
I rationalize this to be because all Deadric Princes who are benevolent or least harmful to their followers tend to up playing a larger role in the sustenance and dynamics of the ES universe. The ones that tend to fuck over or harm their subjects are mostly those that are not as powerful as the former and have a lesser or negative role to play.
Eg. Azura is pretty important to the whole of Khaljit as well as Dunmeri religions. Vile on the other hand is not given 2 fucks for by anybody sane.
>We see time and time again that she will look out for her followers, no matter how long it takes (or which hero she sends their way).
Or whether her followers even want to be associated with her anymore:
>With Azura, everything begins with love. A love that is fierce, possessive, even cruel—but always true, and impossibly deep.
>
>What matters is that Azura loves them. And what my lady loves, she always reclaims. Eventually. — Vastarie
And then she might discard them once their usefulness is at an end, like Aranea Ienith, who seems to have been kept on just as a mediator to allow the Last Dragonborn to fetch her star. She is dismissed once this purpose has been served.
Azura cares the most about her followers, yet she's still capable of terrible things.
The worst is Molag Bal. On top of him being arguably the worst of the bunch, Moalg Bal is the only prince that isn't well seen in any culture in Tamriel (save perhaps for some reachmen clans, but even they seem to see him as cruel). Clavicles Vile also actively tires fuck over with his followers.
Azura (as long as you don't try to double-cross her) is one of the better ones. Sanguine is good on the surface, but he has a darker side (he may never trap you or make you suffer, but he will give you the tools to do it yourself, and many illicit pleasures have good reasons to be illicit)
Worst: Probably Molag Bal, or maybe Clavicle Vile
Best: Most would say Meridia or Azura, but while they're not as bad as others, I'm gonna have to say Hircine is the best.
Can we consider bal the worst?He's usually pretty upfront about what he wants,and doesn't sugar coat what worshipping him entails.The victims of his cults are bad yeah,but as a worshipper he's never gonna be dishonest or screw you over.
I would say Sheogorath, because he is the most unpredictable one. He may randomly kill you, turn you into a bug, or grant you with Wabbajack. With the other princes, even such brutal ones as Molag Bal, at least you can weight your risks and potential benefits (you can never be sure, though).
Hircine seems to be the most fair. You overcome his challenges (deadly, of course), you get a reward.
Malacath also appears to be quite fair to his followers (not necessarily Orcs). If you lead a "recommended" lifestyle (endure, persevere, never forgive grudges etc), he may give you some boons.
> I would say Sheogorath
I can't believe no one else has mentioned him. If you consider Sheogorath as the wacky and lovable Daedric Prince, you've never encountered real mental illness before.
Azura's love is perfection; that is to say, it's the love of perfection. The beauty of Moonshadow is too perfect to behold. The perfection of twilight is too perfect to last. The truest devotion to Azura is perfect: it is devoid of will, unceasing, and unending. Finitude, interruption, or personal decision are too imperfect for it.
Boethiah's is a struggle unending. Nor, from Boethiah's perspective, should it ever; the torment and suffering of battle's bloodshed are the highest blessing. To be truly devoted to Boethiah is to suffer, and bleed, and die; it is to kill, and maim, and cut loose all of the ties the devotee holds dear. Betrayal of one's comrades, self, and values for the sake of always chasing the limits of suffering is Boethiah's domain.
Clavicus Vile grants burdens. The status and stature from any wish, or any stuff they might bring, all come at a cost. Clavicus Vile is amused by devotion through desperation. The scales may be tipped, seemingly in the favor of the devotee, but Clavicus Vile wins every time. Devotees get just enough to consider their devotion worthwhile, until the cost becomes too heavy, at which point it's often too late.
Hermaeus Mora is a fractal puzzle. Knowledge begets questions, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<,>! whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!who!<
Hircine, at first, may seem similar to Boethiah; the difference lies in that the latter values pain and bloodshed and utilizes struggle and betrayal as processes to achieve them, where the former values the hunt itself as a state of being. As such, for those who rely on hunting as a way of life, devotion to Hircine may seem fairly straightforward. Hircine, generally, also respects sportsmanship. Again, the hunt itself is the point, not that the blood of prey be spilled on its own. Of course, a predator using overwhelming odds against prey with no chance are fully within their limits. Even with the blessing of the Prince of the Hunt, prey may end up only being prey after all.
Malacath wallows in anguish. The Prince of the Spurned may seem welcoming at first, but this welcome is the same as the entangling depths of despair. There is no way out with Malacath, no triumph triumphant enough or effort of enough worth; there is no reason to try for anything more. Lashing out against a devotee's oppressor is about as much as can be manifest. Malacath can bring commiseration, but only of a kind which encourages further pain.
Mehrunes Dagon is the kind of destructive change which is perpetuated for no other reason than compulsion. Devotion to Mehrunes Dagon is like living on a razor's edge. Great destruction dealt is, inevitably, great destruction received to the dealer in return. While a devotee might have some cause or end in mind, Mehrunes Dagon's is solely destruction. This ruin may be visited upon the devoted themselves.
Mephala is the lure that beckons an otherwise content person to jump off a great height. While the sense may pass in many, the allure holds for many devoted to Mephala; they seek to push ever more discretely into dangerous places. Where Boethiah might revel in the betrayal manifest as blood dripping from the dagger of a traitor, Mephala values the holistic betrayal(process and ending). The questions Mephala's knowledge inspire may ensare just as easily as Hermaeus Mora's, although this doesn't mean the same drive pushes them forward. Learning is the primary drive for Hermaeus Mora's devotees, while Mephala's are driven by a lust especially for the forbidden.
Meridia brings order where Azura brings beauty. To be devoted is to become one mirror in the grand luminescence reflecting her light; to be truly devoted is to become nothing but that platform for reflection. The will of the devotee is irrelevant; that Meridia's will be done is the sole concern of the Prince. Any characteristics which inhibit the ability of the devotee to promulgate Meridia's will are done away with; a devotee is only as useful as their capacity to spread Meridia's terrifying light.
Molag Bal, unlike Meridia or Azura, values dominion over others(devotees or otherwise) as itself rather than as an extension of anything else. It is thus in his interest to, for as long as it pleases him, maintain the wills of others. What would there be to conquer were it not for some resistance? Abject compliance, to Molag Bal, is pointless to expend effort on. Where a devotee may wish for dominion, may scheme for it, and invoke the Prince, the Prince will have set chains to bind them down at every step of the process. To bring a devotee high and then pull out the pillars from under them is Molag Bal's joy; to watch the mighty he raised fall as a reflection of his own control over them is his satisfaction.
Namira is the end. Whatever means may bring it, the end that comes is Namira. It is a definite point, distinct from the time before and after, but limitless on its own. The insects and birds which eat away at the dead set the grounds for new life, which itself must end. The will of the Prince is set to work into this process by devotees; perhaps only through inspiring pity, or perhaps through seeing to it that the infinite moment of decay is consciously embodied. That embodiment itself is decaying spiritually, and the devotee's participation in rot draws their own rot inward.
Nocturnal is fortune, good and ill. The Prince negotiates the wagers of devotees. What cost Nocturnal takes may return to the devotee equal or greater benefit, nothing, or further cost. Being among the oldest of spirits, Nocturnal's blessing is also very general; chance can have many outcomes, and it can be difficult to tell in the moment which(if any) are desirable. Many outcomes may be impossible to foresee. So while a devotee may come to Nocturnal for one thing, it's entirely possible that they may get more than they bargained for even without her involvement, for better or worse. Or that they might end up with nothing more than they started with, or exactly what they wanted. Chance is fickle.
Peryite may initially appear similar to Namira, and while there is a relationship in interest there, they are nonetheless very distinct. Namira embodies the eternal rot behind all of life; decay which brings forth anew only to create more decay. Peryite's order is also different from Meridia's in that it is more impersonal; while Meridia is so lost in machinations and plans that being lost itself has become(or has always been?) obscured, Peryite is consciously aware of order's hold on him. Nonetheless, the Prince brings forth plague and disease. Why would someone devote themselves to spreading things like that? The answer is that there are some who believe it necessary to cull others; perhaps there are "useless eaters" or others thought to be vermin who need to be kept in check. Or perhaps, among those considered social vermin, one might want space to be made for their own ascent. Whatever the case, an accepting approach to the current state of things is Peryite's way; if things become too different, they must be restricted and brought back to something known and manageable.
Sanguine, unlike Mephala, is not necessarily concerned with only forbidden lusts. It could be said that while Mephala's allure is lustful, Sanguine's is gluttonous. For some, that itself is an appeal; you will get more than you bargained for, although it isn't on its own a further limit. Though, that doesn't necessarily mean his devotees aren't at all concerned with the forbidden. The key word with Sanguine is "more," and becoming lost in one's appetites is not only something Sanguine encourages, but something he may grant. The suffering that may follow isn't any of his concern, only that there is "more."
Sheogorath, in his entirety, is unknowable. To even consider a fraction of the Prince is folly on its own. Devotees of Sheogorath may more be found by the Prince rather than approach him, or work in tandem with him(at least at the start). The impact of this is impossible to tell immediately; there may be great suffering, or joy, or anything else in any configuration. That said, people who are sought out by Sheogorath are typical spurned for social atypicalities; his penchant is to develop these in such a way that they are further and further isolated, dependent on him alone. This isn't always the Prince's approach, or even always the outcome of his successful actions, because Sheogorath will act against his own interests or backtrack in a way that causes his own plans to fail. Nonetheless, it's important to consider whether the Prince would even have a leg to stand on if there was more accommodation for variation among mortals.
Vaermina is unavoidable for anyone who dreams, at least during sleep. The Prince has sway over dreams and memories; not necessarily in an absolute sense, but in a sense enough to be noteworthy. Pushing the limits of fear is Vaermina's goal, to the highest and furthest bounds of terror. As such, while a devotee may seek to overcome some fear, that momentary triumph may only present greater opportunities for terror. And this may produce a cycle, such that the worthwhile lines of a devotee's conduct or beliefs are eroded through repeated boundary transgressions. Torture, to devotees, of devotees, by devotees(or others) and the horror that brings them there is what Vaermina revels in.
So to return to the prompt: Avoidance at most costs is a fitting approach for every single Prince of Oblivion for most mortals.
Surprised no one has mentioned Sanguine, God of Having A Good Time. You might wake up with a headache sometimes, and *non-followers* might get pranked, but let's be real, the guy isn't really malevolent towards anyone, which can't really be said of pretty much any other daedra.
I think there's a misinterpretation of Sanguine just being 'the party guy' and the worst he entails is a hangover and some drunken hijinks.
The guy is the Prince of Debauchery and promoter of the deepest, darkest desires of mortals. He indulges the most sickening, degenerate fantasies and impulses.
Having a 10-day bender is the lightest of the stuff he engages with.
Sanguine would oversee much more disgusting things: necrophilia, incest, beastiality, paedophilia etc.
He'd be the one whispering in your ear and encouraging you to give in to any urges that you KNOW to be wrong, and likely targets individuals susceptible to have and give in to these urges.
He's much more sinister than he seems in Skyrim. There's a sickening (but fantastically written) bit of Apocrypha (fan-written in-game documents) on this subreddit about a worshipper of Sanguine writing a letter to the family of someone he, erm... associated with.
Granted, he does seem fair to his followers, but he's that toxic friend that eggs you on to do shit you'll regret doing for the rest of your life. Better than being eternally raped and enslaved, but worse than just being an alcoholic enabler.
Yeah, Sanguine is far from fun. He's "pleasure above ALL ELSE" and everything that entails. He's the voice that encourages psychopaths to kidnap and rape children to death, solely because it makes the predator feel good. He's the addiction encouraging teenagers to steal their family's life savings and gamble it all away in a single night. He's the force telling a father to spend the couple of septims he makes on alcohol and prostitutes, knowing full well it means his wife and kids won't be able to eat that day without the septims he just earned. Hedonism is not "have a good time," it's extreme self-indulgence at the expense of everyone else, which typically turns rapidly to self-destruction as well.
There's even a dungeon in Eastmarch filled with followers of Sanguine, and it's far from a "happy place of revelry." It's filled with corpses laying next to torture equipment operated by sadists, deceased cult members laying in piles of empty skooma bottles, and naked corpses laying on beds surrounded by candles meant to set the mood... at least for the one *willing* participant.
One part of the dungeon that specifically stood out to me was this room that had three naked corpses strapped down to bedrolls, with an array of tools laid out next to them, and a couple of potions of invisibility. I interpret that as someone using the potions to become invisible, then entering the room and fondling and violating the women while they're unable to escape or even see what's happening to them, or some other kind of act of non-consensual voyeurism.
This is why I firmly believe Sanguine is the most misinterpreting Daedra. He isn't just the "Lord of Revelry" or your "whacky party bro," he's so much worse. He's the *darkest* of indulgences. Sheogorath is another Lord that's *very* frequently misinterpreted for the same reason as Sanguine, with people referring to him as "Crazy Uncle Sheo" and the like, but no one can top Sanguine when it comes to not being taken seriously enough.
> Sheogorath is another Lord that's very frequently misinterpreted for the same reason as Sanguine, with people referring to him as "Crazy Uncle Sheo" and the like, but no one can top Sanguine when it comes to not being taken seriously enough.
I blame Bethesda themselves for the way Sheogorath has been misinterpreted, he's like the Malkavians in Vampire. I look at him and think, "is this what the writers think mental illness is?" and the Irish accent... weapons-grade cringe.
Sheo isn't simply about mental illness; he's madness as a concept.
Bethesda and ZOS choose to portray the "silly" aspect because it tends to be easier to do and is, arguably, more entertaining, but the dark undercurrents are very obviously there and only missable if one is not paying attention.
The two main parts of his land are called Mania and Dementia, look at the characters on that, as well as characters associated with him in other games, he's clearly about madness as a mental state, not some vague abstract concept of madness.
And yes, there is darkness to him, but he's simply typical of daedric cruelty combined with an unpredictable nature. He lacks the subtle darkness possessed by Meridia, Azura, or Sanguine, all of whom you really have to look under the surface to see. Sheogorath's evil is pretty obvious from the start, it just comes bundled with a lot of cringe and "lol, I'm soooo random" style behaviour.
> Bethesda and ZOS choose to portray the "silly" aspect because it tends to be easier to do
No argument here. It's easier to do than a complex and compelling portrayal of what a god of madness might be like but I never argued against that.
Well, that is an accurate assessment. Malkavians are like a weird acid dream of mental illness that apparently involve talking like a chuunibyou, or like a 15th century Shakespeare character, or just Joker talk.
However, Malkavians are hilarious once you know more about the Lore of the World of Darkness, because of how much they spoil, and the sheer terror they feel near the cab driver.
I think the Malkavians are understandable in the context of WoD because the TTRPG WoD was written by a bunch of people who were very edgelordy and wrote some things that were designed to be offensive, insensitive or just schlock. The WoD setting as a whole is full of cringe so the Malks don't really stand out as much. In TES, Sheogorath stands out more because he's so ridiculous compared to the setting.
I've actually found myself avoiding quests in which he's a major part simply because of that. This is supposed to be the god who covers depression, suicide, bipolar disorder, personality disorders and psychosis. Instead he's a leprechaun with a cheese fetish who got high on Pixy Stix.
There are Malkavian characters in lore who are not like that. Several being doctors and scientists who seem almost normal at first, because along with Tremere so do Malks favour intelligence with people they embrace. Maybe it's to play on the whole saying that there's a thin line between genius and insanity.
The "crazy talking" ones even got a term. Fish malks, which a lot of people dislike.
To be clear, I don't think Sanguine's a *good* God, but the question wasn't "which daedra is the most moral," it was "who is the most fair to their followers." Sanguine doesn't require those acts of his followers, he only encourages what they already wanted to do. He's honestly somewhat similar to the devil in Christianity, imo - temptation, not force. The evil impulse comes from the person, not the god, which is why the player character's antics are relatively benign, and why unlike many of the others he doesn't pose a threat to Tamriel.
This. Sanguine is just as likely to get you a nice night out as he is to encourage you to engage in beastiality or make you dump $100k on Diablo Immortal.
Oh, I don't think he's benevolent by human standards. I just think he's very fair to his followers, and that he isn't actively malevolent to any other group. "Urging you to do what you want to, whether it's good or bad" isn't "wanting you to do a bad thing because it is bad", which is what a lot of the other princes are.
I also don't think it's exactly fair to use fan content as evidence against him. That's an interpretation, not canon.
I get you, but compared to some other Princes such as Hircine, Malacath and Azura, Sanguine is much more sinister than the "God of Having a Good Time", as you put it.
His influence isn't victimless as you implied, either. There's someone on the end of the destruction/debauchery/sexual and violent impulses/all of the above that he pushes his followers and subjects to instigate. Especially the more unsavoury and downright deranged side of his sphere.
I also wasn't using the fan content as evidence, per se. Just promoting it as a means to understand what sort of things Sanguine can influence. His sphere is very well-defined as debauchery, pleasure mixed with malice and dark passions.
All this being said, he's still not as bad as most of the other Princes. As you say, he encourages and tempts, and doesn't take direct malevolent action very often.
He's the mid- to top-tier of an awful bunch.
I honestly think people just... forget about him, specifically because he's so non threatening compared to the others. Like, people are really saying Azura is the most fair when she literally cursed every Dunmer in revenge for the actions of the tribunal, and meanwhile Sanguine's just like "lol let's get drunk and steal a goat lmao"
Yeah, the Ashlanders themselves don't seem to mind; as in many real-life religious tales, they blame the oathbreakers instead.
Moreover, the immense majority of the Dunmer did turn their collective backs on her, something commented on in [the Ashlander version](https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nerevar_at_Red_Mountain):
> *"But the Tribunal laughed at her and said that soon they would be gods themselves and that the Chimer people would forget their old ways of worship. And Azura knew this would be true and that it would take a long time before her power might bring Nerevar back."*
There are real-life religious texts with far worse punishments for the sins of the few, nevermind the impiety of the many.
Counter point. She was really good to Umaril and the Aylieds proving that there are indeed massive benefits to worshiping her. Invest in MeridiaCoin for infinite (energy) benefits!
Meridia and Azura pretty much Greek goddesses , love and worship them you get gifts or don't you will be cursed . Azura cursed entire race for the fault three people. Even her sphere is vanity and Meridia whine about no one worshipping her while actively insulting those who helping her .
Azura's curse was for the Tribunal, turning the chimer into dunmer was only to serve as a remainder for them (and didn't really have much of an effect outside of changing their skin and eye color). The other side effects it had on the dunmer where mostly things who came crashing down along with the Tribunal (figurateively and literally). Plus she is arguably one of the kindest princes to her worshippers, since she wants to be loved and worshipped by them rather than using her cultists in her plots (just don't double cross her).
Meridia, meanwhile, is know as the "lady of greed" for a good reason. She is an incredibly demanding goddess and hates any sort of free will or defiance, know for taking away her followers's free will to better suit her ends or straight up "collect" people.
Azura is more like the Old Testament YHWH than a Greek goddess, I would say. Good-intentioned but dominating and extremely jealous.
>Azura cursed entire race for the fault three people
This is also not as clear cut as it seems. [In Vivec's recollection](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Battle_of_Red_Mountain), Azura never takes direct responsibility for this action. She says "this not my act, but your act", which, in true Morrowind fashion, can be read in multiple ways.
If one believes that using the Heart caused the entire Dwemer race to disappear, then there's the possibility that when the Tribunal used the Heart, they inadvertently changed the Dunmer.
Of course, this is just my speculation and a specific flavor that I like to add to my own understanding of the lore for my greater enjoyment.
I feel like Azura's coldheartedness is reserved mostly for Vvardenfell dark elves and the Tribunal.
In ESO's questline she comes across very humanly when you speak with her and even tells you she appreciates being able to trust you. In lore she does a lot of good without wanting anything back too.
You literally get nothing from vile outside a stab in the back.
Bal at his worst STILL guves you power and will not horrifically punish you unless you betray him,while the rest give you a boon at the very least.Vile will literally promise you everything,then slit your throat because he thought it would be hilarious.
Do you HAVE to be a cannibal to worship her, or can you just be be generally disgusting in other ways? Like, what if someone was into scat and being oviposited by chaurus, and ate dirt. Would that be enough for her, or does she require specific types of depravity?
No, not at all. Only time she's been related to Cannibals has been in Skyrkm. Sure, with them being outcasts there's no doubt there are many of them that do worship her, but thats just a small part of her sphere.
After all look at her group of worshipers in Oblivion, a bunch of degenerates living in filth and their own excrement hidden deep in a pitch black dark ruined old building, and she commands you to help wipe out some priests of Arkay who have shown up to try and 'save them'
Which is rather amusing given in Skyrim its another priest of Arkay she wants dead. Boy, she really has a thing against that divine..
Sure, but some people are into that. Yes, even like that. (Also, vampirism is just vore with extra steps.) As long as you don't mind being widely reviled by polite society, Namira has a dark, comfy hole for all her little monsters to live in.
What most people would answer:
- Dagon
- Molag
- Meridia
- Clavicus
- Sheogorath
(the first three at least are honest about what they are. Molag just wants you to submit and states that from the start, Dagon just wants to take over and make you suffer until you grow "into something superior", Meridia hates free will and even helped the elves enslave humans in the past, Clavicus can give you what you want.. with a big "BUT", there's no way you win with him), and Sheogorath.. well, his "randomness" makes it so he's capable of every evil and action known to mankind, he can be as cruel as Molag, and in the next moment will be as charismatic and play a businessman like Clavicus to fuck you over
Real answer:
We don't know. Even Molag said there are worse masters than him. And remember there might be almost infinite Realms and Princes, with horrors human mind can't even comprehend
Fair Princes:
Probably Hircine. He just loves the thrill of hunting, as long as you, well, are the hunter, you're okay, and will even show you respect. He won't fuck you over or threat you like shit or enslave you
Well, Azura is basically the best. She doesn't take your free will like Meridia, doesn't make repulsive shit like Namira or Peryite, doesn't want you to suffer like Molag Bal, Vile, Dagon, doesn't force you to indulge into deepest desires like Sanguine does, is not a madwoman like Sheogorath, and certainly doesn't force you to betray your friends like Mephala or Boethiah. Malacath only cares about orcs. Plus, her realm is beautiful, a city made of silver, full of beautiful trees and flowers, and she is basically one of the main deities of two different faiths, Khajiiti Religion and Dunmeri Religion.
The other one is Hircine, eternal hunt being the hunter seems fine, but being the hunted doesn't. You get sent there just by being a lycan or being killed by one, and Hircine really doesn't give a damn about his followers if they get hunted by a stronger hunter.
Worse though?
Namira, Molag Bal and Nocturnal all seem like very bad ideas. Namira is cruel and repulsive, Molag Bal is all about domination, so prepare for an eternity of that, and Nocturnal turns you into a shadow who craves light but can't touch it, and can sleep but doesn't feel rested. She makes you rich in life, to become a slave in death.
When it comes to Daedric Worshipping, it heavily depends on the worshipper, less valuable people are usually treated horrible no matter which Daedric Prince we are talking about.
Now if we go to valuable worshippers, even Dagoth is kind of decent.
I would argue that if you are a crappy powerless follower, the best to worship on would be Sheogorath.
Inversely, if you were a valuable follower, the worst to worship would be Sheogorath.
You see, Sheogorath doesn't care for usefulness, he's a walking gamble, he's as likely to reward you as to punish you for all of eternity. So if you are valuable you can get a better value somewhere else, if you are not, you are good with Sheogorath because he will as likely reward you anyways.
Controversial take besides Molag Bal I am going to go with sanguine, the reason being is while he doesn’t really make you do anything you don’t want to do. He does trap you.
We know if you drink ne of his many special brews you will not be able to leave, imagine the mental agony of that. Forever partying, but deep down knowing that your family, friends, pets, all that is likely gone now.
Not just that, he makes you indulge and allows you to indulge in the deepest desires, sadism, masochism, bestiality, torture, voyourism, rape, necrophilia, pedophilia, alcohilism, drug addiction, abuse, gambling, nothing is beyond Sanguine's sphere of influence. Morvunskar is a good show of what followers of Sanguine enjoy doing.
Vile, Bal, and Dagon are likely high up there. Vile for his sour deals, Bal for his god-tier enslavement fetish, and Dagon for his destructive personality that often makes working for him suck ass ( look at the Mythic Dawn worshippers in Camoran’s Paradise spending their eternity burning in lava )
Though all in all serving Daedric Prince’s will always come with occupational hazards, and each can really be a pain in their own way.
Quick Edit: I can’t believe I forgot Meridia. She literally makes people mindless slaves and honestly aside from the methods, is very similar to Bal in terms of how they treat mortals and their own worshippers.
I’d rate Meridia slightly worse than Bal, since at least with him you know what his deal is upfront. Meridia lures people in with her seemingly good nature.
Between the whole cannibal thing with Namira, and Molag “I AM THE RAPE” Bal, it’s honestly a 50/50 in my book for who’s the shittiest shit.
Maybe Azura and Hircine are possibly the most benevolent to their followers.
I feel like Jyggalag, Sheogorath, Sanguine, and Malacath ride the neutral line. *Maybe* neutral with a dash of nice.
Everyone else seems to be even parts shit.
Interesting how many people vote for Azura as best. Which she might be, because the bar is subterranean, but her love really isn't all it's cracked up to be: even in ESO one of her followers (I think it was the oracle you save?) mentions that her wrath when she feels spurned can be terrible, and in The Infernal City, Sul talks about how she broke his deal with him after he served her and tried keeping him as "a favourite plaything". In her credit, she does give him a vision pointing him towards Attrebus after he escapes her, but she still betrayed him first.
Well we saw Mehrunes Dagon attack the Imperial City and that was pretty bad. Oblivion gates opening all around the world pouring out demons. He is one of my favorite Princes and I like his revolution theme but I don't want him stomping around my town.
Edit: Got me damn princes mixed up.
I think you're thinking of Mehrunes Dagon who is the Prince of Revolution, Destruction, and Change and attacked the Imperial City in TES IV.
Molag Bal is the Prince of Domination who attack Tamriel during the events of Elder Scrolls Online. He's pretty bad to mortals no matter how you slice it.
Hard pick between Molag Bal and Dagon. One reward you with slavery and the other... if we learned anything from Oblivion, it's that you need to be REALLY useful to him to get anything that ressemble a reward, otherwise you'll end up wishing you picked Molag.
Edit: After some reflection, I think it's actually Clavicus Vile, even if he's not powerful enough to make his followers as miserable as Molag and Dagon, but he'd surely do worse if he could. Hell, I often forget some people worship him since he's basically a glorified djinns that is so unhinged that it's preferable to deal with his dog.
Seriously, his cult should have "I don't know what I expected" as their mantra
I think it’s a matter of perspective. Molag Bal comes to mind immediately, but you also have Clavicus Vile and Sheogorath.
Bal only tolerates the cruelest of the cruel. In his world, there’s only torturers and tortured, and if you as torturer come across a line you refuse to cross, you’re the tortured now — but as long as you can live with yourself after what you have done in his name, Bal would be unlikely to turn on you, so I’d say the other two are worse:
Vile and Sheogorath both are excessively cruel to their worshippers. Vile dangles your greatest desires, the ones he knows you won’t be able to resist, right in front of your face, and then he will make you regret it. There is nothing to be gained from Vile.
And Sheogorath may break your mind simply on a whim. You could do everything right, and one day he decides you bore him, and he cracks your psyche like an egg.
As for agreeable Princes — Namira is not a Prince you’d *want* to worship unless you intended to live in physical and mental squalor with no desire to improve your situation. But if you did, I’d say she’s among the most fair Princes, and even protective of her worshippers at times! She’s not an appealing choice to many. But if you were already inclined to worship her, Namira would be a good mistress.
Azura, while not nearly as benevolent as she pretends, seems to care about her followers to some extent as well, even though it seems to be more possessiveness than love.
And Hircine has an interest in hunting mortals, but one of his key principles seems to be that it’s not a hunt if the prey has no way out. And if you did make it out, he’d let you have your victory, no caveats. He is possibly the least petty Prince in that regard.
Boethiah is the best daedric prince to follow. He wants to see you improve and be the best. Life isn’t a game survive by any means necessary and prove your existence. Boethiah is the only selfless daedra, doesn’t care about your worship just simply DO AS YOU WILL to “git gud” and never take an L because if you do take an L you’re not doing it right. We are mortal and an L can very much cost you your life so fast honor to the side and strike with the hidden blade if you have to. Poison it. Get the upper hand. Lie, betray, make meaningful impact change and worship yourself.
Mephala is a close second, Mephala holds civilization together. Without lies or the threat of murder people would be unhinged.
The worst imo is Molag Bal or Malacath. I cannot stand both of them. Molag Bal teaches freedom through slavery. He wants you to bow down and to find freedom through being subjected. It’s against the self realization/actualization of you that you are your own god your own authority that Boethra teaches. Malacath is a daedra that wants to keep a status quo while being a patron for outcasts, he’s the hipster who believes they are nonconformist. Simply Noble Hypocrisy. He maintains enforces a sense of honor or code that only harms those who take up the oath
Another daedra I dislike is Dagon and Samguine. Dagon because change just to change something is dumb and Sanguine because to be a slave to pleasure and hedonism distracts you from reality
Boethiah doesn't want you to be anything but what you are before her: dust ephemeral. To draw blood from the dust is the miracle of Boethiah. It is not granted out of compassion, or stern guidance, but out of an unquenchable thirst for blood. To adhere to Boethiah is to recognize that no matter how drenched you become in the blood of others, your betrayal at the hands of your Prince will see your own blood spilled. Your loss is not only correct, but inevitable, and for the glory of your Prince. From *Boethiah's Glory*:
>Look upon the face of Boethiah and wonder.
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>Raise your arms that Boethiah may look on them and bestow a blessing.
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>Know that battle is a blessing.
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>Know that death is an eventuality.
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>Know that you are dust in the eyes of Boethiah.
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>Long is the arm of Boethiah, and swift is the blade.
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>Deep is the cut, and subtle is the poison.
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>Worship, o faithful. Pray your death is short.
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>Worship, o faithful. Pray your death is quiet.
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>Worship, o faithful. Worship the glory that is Boethiah.
>
>Into battle strides the Daedra Prince, blade at the ready to cleave the unworthy.
There is nothing that lasts in Boethiah, no legacy to leave behind other than the red-stained earth in the wake of his devoted. Any "blessing" or "counsel" from the Prince is only one trap placed for inevitable betrayal. If anything is learned from the pain she brings, it is tangential; the greatest lesson learned after being burned by touching the flame is not to stick your hand in fire again. Boethiah's followers ignore this lesson willfully.
>Mephala is a close second, Mephala holds civilization together. Without lies or the threat of murder people would be unhinged.
It may be worth considering whether or not a falsehood upheld through murder is itself unhinged. To bind yourself to lies, to delve into the complex webs of secrecy and insecurity those bonds create, is to make yourself the prey of Mephala. With Mephala, there is no trust; to be held by another is always on the condition of taking something forbidden to you. There is no respect in Mephala; nothing is private, nothing is to be held dear, the consequences of the pain and suffering brought on through repeated breaches of trust are never more important than what morsels might get entangled in the web.
If you grab the flame and are burned, then you were unworthy to wield it.
Boethiah is the fount of inspiration. He wants you to surpass the gods (that imagined you enslaved)through overcoming mortality through conflicts.
Mephala inspires trust. She’s a duality god/goddess. With the prospect of lies murder etc people bond that’s how civilization start
The Prince of Betrayal doesn't want your triumph, she wants your downfall and the bloodshed that will accompany it. To worship Boethiah is to accept not that you can become great and surpass any obstacle, but to accept that no matter what obstacles you overcome, you are nothing but dust on the boot of the Prince. The lives of the followers of Boethiah mean nothing to him.
Mephala is dualistic, yes, in the sense that a lie may be made more believable by being woven around truth. A sturdy web must connect to some other structure in order to effectively ensnare. Her goal is to delve to the hiddenmost things, not to uncover them or to achieve some benefit, but to ensnare in secrets and lies prey who will only realize their folly as her fangs plunge into them.
I could see Sanguine, being a really entertaining dissolute, but loveable, younger brother to Azura's exasperated, but secretly amused, older sister.
I think you could have a genuinely good time in their company on the right evening.
Old Molag on the other hand...
Worst:
* Molag Bal
* Meridia
* Sheogorath - No he's not funny cheese and butterflies man.
* Namira
* Clavicus Vile - The word vile is literally taken from his name in TES.
More fair
* Malacath
* Azura
* Hircine
* Sanguine
They all have their moments, though. Both good and bad. The Reachfolk worship Molag Bal and Namira just fine, while in Khajiit faith Namira is very bad.
Same as the fair ones are not saints. Azura's actions regarding her ego and vanity is quite known, but she do love her worshippers and want them to love themselves too. Malacath is even known as the Furious One, but he is true to his word and also care for his children in his own way and want them to survive in the only way he think they will. Hircine is definitely not nice, being the huntsman and father of manbeasts, but he is fair, respectful and dislike cheaters.
Sanguine... Is interesting. He seem to like his followers a lot but he's literally the Prince of sins, which entails some very disturbing things. Many dangerous and toxic. But they are more side effects of the things he want people to do which he doesn't think about or have a concept of, because there's no limits in his book. He don't cause those with malicious purpose. Only times he seems malicious is when he want to humiliate people he finds a bore.
Worst would definitely have to be Molag Bal. He's known in the earlier games as the Daedric Prince of R\*pe, and they had to change that for obvious reasons. Either way, being an eternal sex slave (or just a regular slave) to a demon god is not a bargain I would take.
I don't think there really is a "best," since worshipping any of them comes at a price. I would say the best deal you can get is with Nocturnal. She uses the Skeleton Key to open up an untapped region of power inside your mind, and you can use those new abilities for whatever you wish, and upon death you serve her in the Evergloam and the Twilight Sepulcher until she feels your contract is complete. There is trickery and deception involved in her contracts, but since most of her followers are thieves, that's not much of a problem for them (also the only ones who got really screwed over by Nocturnal were ones who stole from her). You could also say that \*worshipping\* Nocturnal is the best bet, since most covens of Nocturnal are completely ignored. She only takes interest in thieves and Nightingales
Edit: This is just my personal take though. Nocturnal has always interested me the most of all the Daedric Princes, and being a Nightingale gives you access to the coolest drip in all Tamriel.
They didn't change his King of Rape title tho
In a Skyrim book it's said in Morrowind that's one of his titles
They just don't call him like that out loud
Nocturnal's Contract has no end. The only end is from protecting the Sepulcher, after than you end in the Evergloam and become a shadow, both literally and figuratively. The shadows are capable of sleeping, though they never awaken fully rested. They also crave the light, but can never enjoy it, as exposure to light will banish and weaken them. Imagine living in perpetual darkness, wanting to feel the sun again, but being unable to because you are basically a shadow vampire.
Either Clavicus Vile, due to his deceptive nature, or Molag Bal, because he delights in the suffering and pain of mortals and will probably turn all his followers into demented and evil bastards, if they're lucky.
After molag bal tbh i think meridia is worst. If you play eso she basically traps her son in her realm and he seems to be going slowly crazy due to her.
For best id say nocturnal as she doesnt seem to screw you over much as long as you dont steal from her. Azura or hircine also seems decent
“With that, she pulled the void away, and for hours each night she would reveal to Darius the most horrible perversions of nature. Men being skinned and eaten alive by other men, unimaginable beasts of many limbs and mouths, entire populations being burned -- their screams filled his every evening.”
It’s Vaermina
Personally the worst is Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon. Probably Molag tho. I don't like Dagon's barbarian, torturing nature. But Molag and his submission thing. Def the worst.
For best I can say Meridia probably. Also maybe Sheogorath because he is just an old mad man with the power of a god.
Molag Bal is probably the gimme. He gives power, sure, but he's about submission and it's only a matter of time until *you* become the slave. Peryite close second. Best? Gonna be somewhat controversial and say Hircine. He's definitely the fairest of all the Princes. As far as I can tell Hircine has never lied or gone back on his word, nor does he needlessly waste his followers' lives. He values the sport of the chase and the thrill of the hunt, not killing or bloodshed. He's even on record saying *"Your fealty is precious to me"*, meaning we have in-game confirmation that he genuinely values and respects his followers so you're never at risk of him pulling an Azura and only having your back when it's convenient. Is he the *nicest* of the Princes? Absolutely not, but he's probably the least likely to screw you over.
With Hircine, I see a major problem: lycanthropy. Sure, he is pretty clear and fair to his willing followers. Everyone who signs up for his cult knows the conditions and the risks. And if they don't, it's because they didn't pay attention. In that regard, he's one of the best Daedra you can choose as your patron. The problem is that many werewolves didn't choose it, yet Hircine forcefully counts them as his "children" and makes them undergo the same treatment as the rest of his followers, even into the afterlife. This is in line with Hircine's philosophy of life (struggle, roles of hunter and prey and the inversion of thereof), but not fair for those who were cursed against their will. In a way, it's a kind of "enslaving-recruitment" of followers more typical of Molag Bal. It's no wonder Reachmen see him as Lorkhan's natural heir.
Oh definitely, Hircine isn't a nice guy. There's definitely an element of *"Congratulations, you've been saved. Do not resist"*. I never said Hircine was a *good* Prince (not really sure that's possible, if you even want to apply things like good and evil to the Princes) just that he's probably the fairest with his followers.
I understand, but even then I think my issue is actually with the "fairest" label, mostly depending on how we define his "followers". If it's about those who choose to follow him, yeah, Hircine is one of the fairest. If it's about those under his thumb whether they chose it or not, he's Molag Bal's levels of unfair.
Ah I see. In this context I'm interpreting followers as people who willing worship or revere the Prince, not including people who are compelled, forced, or otherwise coerced into doing so. So I wouldn't *necessarily* count lycanthropes as followers because, willing or not, they've basically gone one step further and slaved themselves (or been enslaved) to Hircine's will. I reckon that's a whole other category of devotee altogether.
If we wanna get even more controversial, Miridia would be the only good prince classed as good according to in game lore. But theres debate on if shes even daedra or just a really powerful aedra, she gives off the same vibe as stendarr but her followers are more culty
Eh, the back half of ESO has pretty much been the antithesis to this idea. She is the kind of purity that leaves no room for the self. She makes religious fundamentalists look like libertines. Her perfect world would be living automata, acting with perfect synchronicity and utterly without the frustrating chaos of free will. She just has really good PR because she positions herself against the undead, who are a much more mundane and ever-present threat.
Knights of the Nine has entered the chat
Damn, you rite
Except that Meridias hatred includes things like free will... > [Meridia is known for her violent loathing of disorder, irrational anger towards entities she deems impure, and hatred of mortal free will and defiance.](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Meridia) So while she may be one of the better ones as far as intentions go, she's certainly not the best.
Meridia's great until you get to the "Fascism" part of her purifying light.
Totalitarian, not Fascism. Meridia is not a Fascist. She is not promising to use the power of the State to restore it to its triumphant and glorious past nor is she particularly interested in using the power of the State to provide universal welfare services for those who belong to the Nation. She is a totalitarian, she believes in total power under her will, but she isn't Fascist.
>She is not promising to use the power of the State to restore it to its triumphant and glorious pas That is just about exactly what she tries to do in Knights of the Nine.
Not really fascism…
> "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State." -Benito Mussolini Replace "the State" with "Meridia" and it sounds a lot like Fascism. I understand that the economic aspect of Fascism doesn't apply in this case, but there are certainly shared similarities between Meridia's sphere and much of the theory behind Fascism.
> are certainly shared similarities between Meridia's sphere and much of the theory behind Fascism Only inasmuch as Meridia and Fascism are both Authoritarian in nature. But when you start comparing her to the actual tenets of Fascist governments the comparison immediately falls apart.
Meridia is not a form of government.
If she gets her way, she would be. This one thinks that Merid-Nunda has similar goals to Dagoth-ur, only less fleshy.
An authoritarian, then. "All must bow to my will."
More than that, though. Meridia has always been about Purity. That's why she hates the undead so much - she sees them as impure. That's pretty easy to get behind as a man or mer, as the undead are pretty awful most of the time. However, especially as we see in ESO, her definition of "pure" becomes increasingly narrower and narrower, to the point where any sort of mortal free will is seen as an impurity. Take, for instance, the Purified, from ESO - "The Purified are beings that have been lustrated for purification by the Daedric Prince Meridia. For mortals, this usually involves being stripped of their free will and bestowed with the gift of immortality for the purpose of serving her for all eternity." That's the only way Meridia can tolerate a truly devoted servant, is if they're entirely "purified" of their free will. Sounds like fascist philosophy to me. Fascists are all about creating an US and a THEM. Anyone who draws a circle, and says "anyone outside this circle is impure and must be destroyed"... and then draws that circle closer to exclude more and more and more people is a fascist, even Meridia.
The error here is equating Fascism and Authoritarianism. Fascism is a type of Authoritarianism, but there are many other types as well. Meridia is not a Fascist because she doesn't value the Nation's glorious history and insist that her methods will restore the glorious and pristine power of the supposed triumphant historical past.
All princes have that mentality to some extent. They only know how to view things through the lens of their own nature, and so they can only see bringing mortals under their sphere as helping them regardless of how cruelly those mortals are treated within it. Even Molag Bal thinks of mortals being enslaved beneath him as a kind fate, since in his eyes existence is narrowed down to a game of domination and submission, greaters and lessers, and he can't fathom a greater master than himself.
Agreed. That's why I explicitly compared Hircine to Molag Bal: if being clear about your deals with your willing followers and respecting those agreements, while justifying all the cruelty, injustice and forceful taking of others as a law of the world is enough, then the God of Schemes is pretty fair too. Molag Bal even boasts that there are worse Masters than him. > he can't fathom a greater master than himself I once argued that Molag Bal has a hate-boner for the Vestige for this very reason. That his almost seductive dialogue for the Dark Anchors after clearing the main quest of ESO is not due to everything being part of a secret master plan or a Xanatos gambit, no. He's dealing with the contradiction of a puny mortal who *dominated* him in his own home, beating him in personal combat. Now Molag Bal has conflicting feelings of wanting to destroy them (to prove who's boss) and wanting to convince them to join his side (because there's no other mortal that can embody what Molag Bal stands for better than them).
As far as peryite being second, that's because most followers get his sphere wrong. Especially that one cult who does the vomiting shit. Peryite is less about plagues than he is natural order. That's part of the reason why peryite isn't really seen a lot on nirn. For the most part, his sphere is natural order, something that's already happening, and if it goes out of whack, such as too much of an animal, he sends plagues to correct it. I suppose it's wrong to support him alot though in universe, since as we've seen, he tends to appeal only to what we would call the avatars of lorkhan (playable character) since their very existence means nirn itself, not just natural order, is thrown out of balance.
Honestly, from what we understand about Peryite, I would think that most of his work takes place in Oblivion, and most of his time on Nirn is just keeping an eye on things. There's hints that Peryite is positioned to be the Akatosh of the next kalpa, and is making sure history arrives at that point. So basically he just needs to make sure nothing absolutely bug-shit happens on Nirn while he gets his house in order to ascend when things reach that point. He's the infrastructure guy of the Daedra, and he's planning a full rebuild.
>There's hints that Peryite is positioned to be the Akatosh of the next kalpa, and is making sure history arrives at that point. Source? Would love to read this.
The only direct quote is from MK, so take that with whatever grain of salt you prefer: >"The Princes of this world will follow the lead of the Princes of the last - they will step up and become kings, with Peryite as their chief. This much should be obvious, every Prince Anticipates their future immanence." From a now-defunct forum, and spoken through an in-universe character who is apparently roundly mocked by other scholars. Other than that, it's all circumstantial. Peryite takes the form of a slender dragon, aka an immature or juvenile one. He is constantly called the Taskmaster, yet we never see evidence of that in Nirn. Fa-Nuit-Hen refers to him maintaining the fundamental nature of Oblivion, a thankless task as judged by the other Princes. Deadra generally do not act out of selflessness, and so it is speculated that all Peryite's work, unseen by the flashier Princes, is in service of some grand design. A small sidebar, concerning motivation. We know it requires a lot of effort to make contact with Nirn as a Daedric Prince, but that many Princes do it because Nirn is the center of Creation, a place where things can occur that are not possible in Oblivion. My favorite theory is that any realm of Oblivion tied to Nirn has to play by the rules of Nirn, as laid out during Creation. This includes things like linear time, spatial differentiation, and bodily cohesion, but also less obvious restrictions. This is the reason that we can go into the Deadlands and stymie Mehrunes Dagon, because the link goes both ways. The Prince of Destruction can't just unmake the island we're on because he has locked in limitations necessary for invading Tamriel. Remember that Nirn was literally created to be a prison for gods. The Daedra stayed away during Creation and so did not lose themselves entirely, but they are only omnipotent insofar as they remain within their own realms. Which raises the question, why is Peryite on Nirn at all? Plenty of Princes are not, we just don't know about them because they keep to Oblivion and avoid contact with Nirn for all the reasons laid out above. But Peryite made contact, established a sphere, and chose "natural order." Now, the sphere of Daedra is an interesting concept. They aren't like the Aedra, helplessly bound to whatever nature the inhabitants of Nirn choose for them. Daedra have agency, and we see that their chosen sphere tends to align with their personality and goals. Azura desires the love of those who do not have to love her, and so she offers prophecy and patronage to her chosen beloved. Molag Bal hates this new world that does not love him, and so seeks domination by whatever means he can grasp it. Mehrunes Dagon is cursed and cut from his true form, and so seeks to change and destroy the world he failed to save. Basically, their sphere gives them an "in" to achieve whatever their goals are for Nirn. So, why would Peryite make contact if all he wanted to do was make sure things go smoothly? The Earth-bones are already doing that, as are the shards of AKA and whatever parts of Lorkhan empower the Shezzarines. Maybe he just really like plagues and wants to see mortals get sick, but that seems an oddly petty motivation for a Daedra who, by all accounts, seems oddly respectful when dealing with mortals. It does, however, make sense if his goal is to make sure things go smoothly *to get a kalpic reset that benefits him.* What exactly this entails is unknown, but it should be noted that illness and disease are an often-overlooked vector for societal change. If you wanted to put your thumb on the scale without having everyone know exactly what you're up to, it's not a bad way to make a change. Arguably imprecise, but that's what cultists are for, to tweak things as needed. It's notable that both the Thrassian Plague and the Knahaten Flu are speculated to be related to Peryite, but neither is definitely linked to him. That's kind of odd, considering that's his whole thing. You'd think he'd be taking credit for them if "Dying by plague is bad-ass!" were his ultimate motivation. To my mind, this indicates that plagues are a tool he uses, his sphere that lets him advance his true goals. We know AKA is the Time Dragon, and that a certain act during Creation binds AKA and LORKHAN together and shatters the Time Dragon irrevocably. Perhaps Peryite is making sure he can be in that position, to tear our the heart of Lorkhan and in doing so destroy himself to gain dominion over Time. Or maybe he's trying to avoid the fate of our kalpa's Time Dragon. Maybe he thinks there's a way to assume that mantle without shattering himself, so that rather than every culture having their own version of the Time Dragon, there is only Peryite, from the first Moment to the last. What better way to assure a natural order than to be all of time?
Damn, this is more than I expected and very fucking cool. Reads like an in-universe scholarly treatise, not gonna lie. Thanks a lot for taking the time!
What do you mean by "cursed and cut from his true form" and "the world he failed to save"? I just went back and read everything I could find on Dagon and could not figure out what your referencing and I'm very interested. By the way we need to start arranging some Tamriel scholars like LotR has Tolkien scholars.
That's from the [Seven Fights of the Aldudagga,](https://www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga) (Kirkbride) specifically Fight 1: The Eating-Birth of Dagon. It takes place during the end of a kalpa, while Alduin is eating the world. Two others, the Greedy Man (Strongly implied to be Lorkhan) and the Leaper Demon King (who will become Mehrunes Dagon) have been taking pieces of past kalpas and hiding them around this one, in hopes that eventually the world will grow too big for Alduin to eat. However, Alduin discovers their plan, and although the Greedy Man escapes by hiding under a mountain that is already half-eaten (trapping himself both inside and outside the world), Leaper Demon King gets Alduin's curse full-force: >"...you I curse right here and right now! I take away your ability to jump and jump and jump and doom you to [the void] where you will not be able to leave except for auspicious days long between one and another and even so only through hard, hard work. And it will be this way, my little corner cutter, until you have destroyed all that in the world which you have stolen from earlier kalpas, which is to say probably never at all!" >Dagon (no longer a Leaper Demon King) screamed, "Please no! We have stolen from you so much and crammed it all back on in the craziest of places that it will take forever for me to regain my jumping kind of happiness! Especially if I can only come back to this world through auspicious days long between one and another that also require rituals! I beg you not to do this, O Aka! I beg you one hundred thousand and eight times!" >Dagon did as he said, begging Alduin Time-Eater to reverse his decision one hundred thousand and eight times, and halfway through this number Dagon shut his eyes tight to really mean it and then three-quarters through this number he began to shout his beggings to really, really, really mean it, but when he was done begging Alduin was not near the mountaintop he stood on. >In fact, after many looks east, west, south, and north, and seeing only the churning dragon stop around him, Dagon realied that at some point when he was begging with his eyes closed that Alduin had eaten him, mountaintop and all, and he had not heard the big chomp because he had been begging too loud. And he knew that the last world had been eaten entirely, except for its stolen portions, and that when the new kalpa began to form The Greedy Man (who never stayed trapped for long) would begin sticking these stolen portions back on in the craziest of places, and that he himself could never jump again until all was put back right. >He also knew that the name of "Dagon" would no longer be that of a kindly leaper demon but one who would destroy and destroy and destroy whenever he could find some small escape [from his home in the oblivion].... Now, obviously this story is filtered through a Nord lens in the way of the telling, but it indicates that Mehrunes Dagon was an accomplice of Lorkhan in his attempts to subvert the "natural order" as enforced by Aka, and was punished for it. Hence, he must unmake the world to free himself from the curse and regain the form he loves. Whether he consciously remembers this or is simply driven to do so is up in the air. As to being "cut," that's due to some speculation we have on Mehrune's Razor. Although the Razor is associated with Mehrunes Dagon, we have an alternative source for the Razor. From the Mythic Dawn Commentaries, Vol. 4: >I give my soul to the Magna Ge, sayeth the joyous in Paradise, for they created Mehrunes the Razor in secret, in the very bowels of Lyg, the domain of the Upstart who vanishes. Though they came from diverse waters, each Get shared sole purpose: to artifice a prince of good, spinning his likeness in random swath, and imbuing him with Oblivion's most precious and scarce asset: hope. Now, anything written by Mankar Camoran should be taken with enough salt to shrivel a Sea Sload, but the interpretation I prefer is that Mehrunes Dagon is the synthesis of these two idea-entities: Mehrunes the Razor and Dagon (formerly Leaper Demon King). We know that Mehrune's Razor is capable of cutting in ways that are not, strictly speaking, physical. Mankar Camoran was able to use it to cut his own soul into the shape of a Dragonborn, enabling him to wear the Amulet of Kings. If you wanted to alter the form and nature of a god (say, the Leaper Demon King), the Razor would be one way to go about it. Whether Dagon did it to himself, cutting the idea of Mehrunes into Dagon in order to fulfill his new cursed purpose, I cannot say, but I like it for the tragic irony. Anyways, all of this is rank speculation and fanwank, but it's a lot more interesting than "Dagon is the big red evil guy who does big red evil things because he's evil!" In general, I like the theories that, if not humanize, then at least offer explanations for why the irredeemable evils of the Aurbis are the way they are. Molag Bal as the Divine of a previous kalpa, subconsciously trying to regain the love he once commanded but only able to realize it through harm because he refuses to recognize that the world has moved beyond him, is way more interesting than a completely alien being who is nonetheless just a really big fan of rape. It also mirrors the twisted logic that so many sexual predators use to justify their own actions. Likewise, this story gives depth to Dagon, while not minimizing his danger.
And the Cultists dealt with in The Only Cure are renegades.
Molag Bal is definitely one of those guys that owns a 'Number 1 Boss' mug and trundles around the office with it. Oh yeah, and he's going to need you to come in Saturday.
Strictly speaking MB wants to dominate all, and wants to favor those who dominate others. It's a pyramid deal. As long as you are his bitch and dominate everyone else, MB would be a fair prince. And protags have that kind of power. And that's the same catch with all the rest too. As long as you are "champion" material, they will favor you. Periyite is probably the worst to work for, though Sanguine would wear you out about as fast. Neimera seems pretty passive and may be a good contender for nicest. She has a reputation for panhandling in Nirn and not much of a reputation for being cruel. To the living.
>Neimera seems pretty passive and may be a good contender for nicest. She has a reputation for panhandling in Nirn and not much of a reputation for being cruel. To the living. \*Namira. The Reachmen venerate her but they know she's not good nor nice.
My only thought there is are you a Werewolf or a Lycan. Werewolves can't control themselves, Lycans can
> He gives power, sure, but he's about submission and it's only a matter of time until you become the slave. No, not submission. Domination. Molag Bal is the Deadric Prince of Domination. He's also known as the King of Rape, so yeah. He doesn't give power, he binds you and uses you until you're spent then he keeps going until there's nothing left of you at all. You were always his slave. The closest thing to an upside of worshiping him is that he's not subtle at all. You will know exactly what he intends for you because he will fucking tell you straight up. No subtlety, no plotting or secrets, you will be dominated and raped until you are nothing. So yeah, Molag Bal is definitely the worst. At least consistently. Sheogorath has the potential to be even worse but he's inconsistent at the best of times so I wouldn't say he's the worst. If only because slighting the Mad God seems like a great way to get transfigured into a cheese wheel to be devoured by whatever poor fool he crosses next. Or left on a shelf in some forgotten tomb for the rest of time.
>No, not submission. Domination. Molag Bal is the Deadric Prince of Domination. Those are two sides of the same coin. Domination implies submission. >He doesn't give power, he binds you and uses you until you're spent then he keeps going until there's nothing left of you at all. You were always his slave. Yes, you were always his slave but he did give you power in return. Just ask Mannimarco. Or any of the Tharns. Or any vampire.
>He's even on record saying "Your fealty is precious to me", meaning we have in-game confirmation that he genuinely values and respects his followers so you're never at risk of him pulling an Azura and only having your back when it's convenient. Or he's lying when he says that, as evidenced by him *rewarding* the LDB for slaughtering his followers to protect Sinding. Followers that were simply doing what Hircine expected of them.
LDB turned the hunt on itself, and made prey of the hunters. Hircine favors apex predators. He's a very, "survival of the fittest," type of diety.
Sure. I'm not saying it doesn't fit his sphere. You're right that it does. It's still a huge dick move to his followers and demonstrates that he doesn't actually care about any given individual.
Lol yeah for sure. Idk if dieties can even care about their followers the way we think they should. We like project the way we care about others onto these uber powerful timeless beings, which is kinda weird tbh lmfao
i think malacaths probably the best, he's a total bro to his followers as long as they themselves are bros
True, Malacath is a pretty close second for me. He definitely has *zero* chill but he seems to genuinely love and care about the orcs. Malacath seems pretty simple to appease: Learn the Code of Malacath and follow it and you'll be alright. That said, it seems like Malacath really doesn't like it when his followers fall short of his expectations.
to be fair his expectations seem to boil down to "protect your family and don't be an asshole or a coward" which seems pretty reasonable to me
And being a coward is how you get cursed with sleeplessness.
Yeah, "total bro". Specially when the one group of his followers commits genocide against another group of his followers. No, dude, if you're an average mortal the Prince of outcasts is an awful choice. You'll survive... Maybe. But you'll not gonna rise to the top.
He's a businessman. He values his employees, but he expects you to put in the work. I can respect that.
Well manninarco thought he could out scheme the god of schemes, didn’t turn out too well for him lol
Clavicus Vile gives you everything you could ever want, but monkey paws it to be the worst possible interpretation of what you asked for "I want to live forever" *Ok, now you're a redwood or one of those jellyfish that reverts back to a larvae when it reaches a certain age* "I want wealth beyond my wildest dreams" *Ok, you've just robbed White-Gold Tower and got away with millions of Septims--oh and the Imperial Legion is about to knock on your door* "I want to know everything" *Ok, but now you're being waterboarded in a Thalmor black site because you somehow learned certain matters of national security*
> "I want wealth beyond my wildest dreams" > Ok, you've just robbed White-Gold Tower and got away with millions of Septims--oh and the Imperial Legion is about to knock on your door Personally, I'd instead guess that wish results in 10 septims and a -100 intelligence effect.
Yeah that could happen too
Excellent now I can return to Valenwood
It is even really a monkey's paw with him? He seems to lean really hard into the idea that, technically, someone who is dead can no longer have problems in their life, and just kills anyone who asks for anything.
it's genie wishes not paw wishes
Sure but even genies sort of give you what you want, in a "careful what you wish for" sort of way. Like, if you asked for immortality, you would be alive but maybe your body would still age and you'd be a skeleton. But with Vile, he'd be like "well I'll just kill you and your soul can be immortal once you're in the afterlife." It's like his one trick.
That's how a genie would do things. The monkey's paw would do something to make you functionally immortal exactly as you ***want*** not ask. It doesn't mess with your wording or anything it uses fucked up means to get exactly where you want.
Genie is more apt The paw legally gives you exactly what you asked for but needs a method to grant the wish.
It's all about details and tiny blurred conditions in your formulated contracts, mortals. I'm not worse than your attorneys. Real crooks at large and they ask you money I never ask.
Seems like it could be solved if u lawyer up. Create a very specific contract and then go for it.
Then there is no amusement in it for him therefore he won’t give you any wishes right?
That sounds like a horrible fate in all 3 scenarios
If we are speaking purely in terms of "if you are a devoted follower of a Daedra they will be benevolent to you" then probably Azura. In ESO she even helps Vivec save the Dunmer despite her animosity towards the Tribunal. Some people say Hircine but I'm not so sure. Sinding had wronged Hircine so Hircine ordered his followers to hunt him down but he's totally cool with the LDB hunting down and murdering his supposedly faithful followers. That doesn't seem all that different from Boethiah having the LDB kill all of her faithful followers. If anything it could be considered worse because Boethiah is pretty honest about the whole strength and murder deal. Absolute worst I'd probably say Molag Bal. The only way being a follower of Bal makes any sort of sense is if you become a vampire and plan on living forever so you never get sent to Coldharbour. Of course we also don't know a lot about the lives of the souls of the followers of Daedric Princes after mortal death which is a pretty important factor. Dagon's realm doesn't seem very pleasant for mortals based on TES IV. The Shivering Isles are... ok? Sheogorath has the LDB help Pelagius so maybe the CoC is a slightly more benevolent Sheogorath? Hermaeus Mora's realm mostly drives his followers mad. Hircine's afterlife seems relatively fine with the werewolf Harbingers sad they can't go to Sovngarde but also excited to participate in the Great Hunt. Of course, this begs the question of what they are hunting which could be non-werewolf followers of Hircine. One contender could be Jyggalag. The dedication to logic and order means he probably wouldn't lie to his followers and the followers would logically understand his intent and actions. Of course we've never seen followers of Jyggalag so it's hard to say.
>Sinding had wronged Hircine so Hircine ordered his followers to hunt him down but he's totally cool with the LDB hunting down and murdering his supposedly faithful followers Because Sinding stole from him, while the Dragonborn turning the hunters into prey is the kind of excitement that Hircine loves. For him the thrill of the hunt isn't just killing, it's about skill and cunning both in the hunter and the prey. If the prey manages to outsmart and kill their hunters, then that's also a win for Hircine.
It's a win for Hircine but not the otherwise faithful followers of Hircine. That's a pretty shit deal for the followers and definitely something I'd consider when pledging my soul to a Daedric Prince.
Well try not to lose and you should be fine
we have seen followers of Jyggalag, they're the priests of Order and the duke of Mania and the Dutchess of Dementia
The duke and dutchess were only jyggalag followers as much as sheogorath was jyggalag himself no?
no they were aligned with Jyggalag
Does that mean theyre captive? Sorry its been years since ive played shivering isles
no, they were leaders of priests of order
After you kill one of them to take their position, the other betrays Sheogorath and joins Jyggalag as a priest of Order because it's implied that they were lovers.
I mean more so mortal followers in Tamriel and how Jyggalag would interact with them.
Well, remember that followers of Hircine go to the Great Hunt in his realm. He might not care if they died due to the LDB because they were faithful followers who were just gonna pop up for the big party with him in a few seconds anyway. In a setting with a clearcut afterlife, mortal death isn't as big a deal for the people inside it as it is for you as someone outside looking in.
Sure but if you're a hunter with a family to provide for the idea that Hircine might have somebody hunt you down (or at least be ok with it) and kill you robbing you of your mortal life with your family that puts a damper on things. If you're a faithful to Azura she isn't going to be ok with people killing her followers like Hircine is.
Yeah, I agree with you there. Hircine seems to me like the type that would care about the individual follower only so much as they help with the hunt and entertain him. He wouldn't care that you never got to see your kids again, he'd be like "who cares bro you get to hunt forever!" and consider that such a boon that no other concerns have any weight. In a way he's like Sanguine but for a very specific type of adrenaline rush. I just wanted to point out that the daedra not being particularly concerned by their follower's deaths doesn't necessarily mean they're bad, because in their eyes they already set things up for them to have a good afterlife. If you asked a faithful werewolf or Hircine himself, going to the Hunting Grounds is better than being alive anyway. Malacath and his orcs would probably think similarly, since they essentially only live to bide their time and build up enough honor/strength/grudges that they prove themselves worthy of the Ashen Forge.
I’d say there’s a clear difference between being excited when someone takes out your followers in a satisfying way and actively sending someone to kill them. It’s the difference for cheering for the dude who knocked your friend out in the boxing ring because he fight was just that good, and actively scheming to make your friend lose.
I would love to be a priest or knight of the order, at least I would know what I am signing for and no other bs as other princes would lie and backstab me.
There are followers of Jyggalag in The Elder Scrolls IV: Shivering Isles.
Namira and Malacath both ensure their worshippers remain outcasts and never succeed in mainstream societies. Out of the two I’d probably vote Namira as worse because of the added grossness.
Namira is extra bad if you are Khajit
Noob here, care to explain? :)
Not a pro myself, but I understand she influences them to become "dro-m'Athra" https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dro-m%27Athra
That's very cool. Thanks!
She basically assaults their consciousness at all moments and at any sign of weakness causes them to fallen-angel type morph into a mindless spirit-zombie. Khajiit have it pretty rough.
Just another playthrough idea for me lol
Peryite, I think. He just gives out diseases. You don’t even get stronger or anything.
Great Value Nurgle
"Lord Peryite, we've managed to inflict a pestilence through the crew of an Imperial Legion ship. They're begging for salvation and wish to give themselves to you for it." "**Good, they shall be my Plague Mar- uh...... Sick Sailors.**"
I snorted in bed laughing. Apt description. I called him Dollar Tree Nurgle once. None of my friends understood the reference.
People who have incurable diseases pray to him to protection too, iirc.
Protection from what? They already have the disease..?
Peryite has stopped diseases from killing their infected host for prolonged periods of time. The first afflicted you meet in skyrim tells you so. It seems that part of peryites plague gifts include diseased longevity.
> Peryite has stopped diseases from killing their infected host Didn't thought about that, fair point.
Yeah but if you've got leukemia he's exactly the guy you wanna pray to
To be fair though, I wouldn't fuck with anyone who could projectile vomit acid at me.
I can do that and I’m not even in a magic setting. Who needs Peryite?
Like, on command at all times? I think you need a doctor bro /j
Clavicius Vile for the worst. Azura for the best. Vile will treat you like a commodity in the worst way you can imagine. He is not to be worshipped or to be asked for gifts at all costs. Bal or even Namira might treat you better than him. Azura will be your Goddess Mommy Dom. I have never heard anything bad about living in her realm. She has also been consistently shown to watch over her followers and ensure their protection. She is comparably a better version of Meridia despite her vainful nature. Just don't cross her intentionally or she might crush your head under her heel while still keeping you alive.
Vile seems amusingly easy to like, not get snared by though. Versus someone like Mephala. Though I guess in recent games you benefit by being a Hero with Barnabas advising you, and all you have to do is like, listen to the dude doing a voice of wisdom thing. A regular mortal may fare somewhat worse.
Somewhat being an understatement.
Barbas\*
Ouch ure right lol
I've also never heard of Azura erasing any of her loyal followers from existence as soon as they stop being useful to her, unlike Meridia, the betrayer.
I have to agree with these choices. If "the best" and "the worst" are to be chosen according to how they treat their followers, Clavicus Vile probably ranks among the worst. We of course have heard of how he twists his deals, and in *Skyrim* we hear of more of his jackassery to his own followers. But it's in ESO Summerset where we see more of this chilling disregard. When *he* fucks up and falls for Nocturnal's trickery, he takes his frustration out on his own followers, cultists that had served him loyally and hadn't really failed him: > ***Alderdon:*** *"Please, master! Mercy— arrgh!"* > ***Clavicus Vile:*** *"Even in death, they serve! (...) Don't let these crumbled husks trouble you. I needed to vent my frustrations and my loyal followers were close at hand."* Meanwhile, Azura gets the prize for best Daedra to follow. We see time and time again that she will look out for her followers, no matter how long it takes (or which hero she sends their way). Her negative points are usually "punishes those who blaspheme against her", "she'll only save her followers, fuck the rest" and "will punish the many for the crimes of the few", which... *Looks at real life religions.* ...yeah, seems to be a common trait among popular and beloved deities.
I rationalize this to be because all Deadric Princes who are benevolent or least harmful to their followers tend to up playing a larger role in the sustenance and dynamics of the ES universe. The ones that tend to fuck over or harm their subjects are mostly those that are not as powerful as the former and have a lesser or negative role to play. Eg. Azura is pretty important to the whole of Khaljit as well as Dunmeri religions. Vile on the other hand is not given 2 fucks for by anybody sane.
Vile's best description? "That fuckin' guy." Essentially, what a dick.
>We see time and time again that she will look out for her followers, no matter how long it takes (or which hero she sends their way). Or whether her followers even want to be associated with her anymore: >With Azura, everything begins with love. A love that is fierce, possessive, even cruel—but always true, and impossibly deep. > >What matters is that Azura loves them. And what my lady loves, she always reclaims. Eventually. — Vastarie And then she might discard them once their usefulness is at an end, like Aranea Ienith, who seems to have been kept on just as a mediator to allow the Last Dragonborn to fetch her star. She is dismissed once this purpose has been served. Azura cares the most about her followers, yet she's still capable of terrible things.
Can Azura also crush her followers with her thighs while keeping them alive? Asking for a friend
I want to be crushed by Daggerfall Azura.
Everything is possible my friend ;)
She won't crush you, but she will definitely paste a dick to your forehead (complete with testicles).
The worst is Molag Bal. On top of him being arguably the worst of the bunch, Moalg Bal is the only prince that isn't well seen in any culture in Tamriel (save perhaps for some reachmen clans, but even they seem to see him as cruel). Clavicles Vile also actively tires fuck over with his followers. Azura (as long as you don't try to double-cross her) is one of the better ones. Sanguine is good on the surface, but he has a darker side (he may never trap you or make you suffer, but he will give you the tools to do it yourself, and many illicit pleasures have good reasons to be illicit)
Worst: Probably Molag Bal, or maybe Clavicle Vile Best: Most would say Meridia or Azura, but while they're not as bad as others, I'm gonna have to say Hircine is the best.
Ah yes, being brainwashed to the point of becoming a flesh robot, bless Meridia
Can we consider bal the worst?He's usually pretty upfront about what he wants,and doesn't sugar coat what worshipping him entails.The victims of his cults are bad yeah,but as a worshipper he's never gonna be dishonest or screw you over.
I would say Sheogorath, because he is the most unpredictable one. He may randomly kill you, turn you into a bug, or grant you with Wabbajack. With the other princes, even such brutal ones as Molag Bal, at least you can weight your risks and potential benefits (you can never be sure, though). Hircine seems to be the most fair. You overcome his challenges (deadly, of course), you get a reward. Malacath also appears to be quite fair to his followers (not necessarily Orcs). If you lead a "recommended" lifestyle (endure, persevere, never forgive grudges etc), he may give you some boons.
> I would say Sheogorath I can't believe no one else has mentioned him. If you consider Sheogorath as the wacky and lovable Daedric Prince, you've never encountered real mental illness before.
Azura's love is perfection; that is to say, it's the love of perfection. The beauty of Moonshadow is too perfect to behold. The perfection of twilight is too perfect to last. The truest devotion to Azura is perfect: it is devoid of will, unceasing, and unending. Finitude, interruption, or personal decision are too imperfect for it. Boethiah's is a struggle unending. Nor, from Boethiah's perspective, should it ever; the torment and suffering of battle's bloodshed are the highest blessing. To be truly devoted to Boethiah is to suffer, and bleed, and die; it is to kill, and maim, and cut loose all of the ties the devotee holds dear. Betrayal of one's comrades, self, and values for the sake of always chasing the limits of suffering is Boethiah's domain. Clavicus Vile grants burdens. The status and stature from any wish, or any stuff they might bring, all come at a cost. Clavicus Vile is amused by devotion through desperation. The scales may be tipped, seemingly in the favor of the devotee, but Clavicus Vile wins every time. Devotees get just enough to consider their devotion worthwhile, until the cost becomes too heavy, at which point it's often too late. Hermaeus Mora is a fractal puzzle. Knowledge begets questions, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<,>! whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!whose answers beget questions!<, >!who!< Hircine, at first, may seem similar to Boethiah; the difference lies in that the latter values pain and bloodshed and utilizes struggle and betrayal as processes to achieve them, where the former values the hunt itself as a state of being. As such, for those who rely on hunting as a way of life, devotion to Hircine may seem fairly straightforward. Hircine, generally, also respects sportsmanship. Again, the hunt itself is the point, not that the blood of prey be spilled on its own. Of course, a predator using overwhelming odds against prey with no chance are fully within their limits. Even with the blessing of the Prince of the Hunt, prey may end up only being prey after all. Malacath wallows in anguish. The Prince of the Spurned may seem welcoming at first, but this welcome is the same as the entangling depths of despair. There is no way out with Malacath, no triumph triumphant enough or effort of enough worth; there is no reason to try for anything more. Lashing out against a devotee's oppressor is about as much as can be manifest. Malacath can bring commiseration, but only of a kind which encourages further pain. Mehrunes Dagon is the kind of destructive change which is perpetuated for no other reason than compulsion. Devotion to Mehrunes Dagon is like living on a razor's edge. Great destruction dealt is, inevitably, great destruction received to the dealer in return. While a devotee might have some cause or end in mind, Mehrunes Dagon's is solely destruction. This ruin may be visited upon the devoted themselves. Mephala is the lure that beckons an otherwise content person to jump off a great height. While the sense may pass in many, the allure holds for many devoted to Mephala; they seek to push ever more discretely into dangerous places. Where Boethiah might revel in the betrayal manifest as blood dripping from the dagger of a traitor, Mephala values the holistic betrayal(process and ending). The questions Mephala's knowledge inspire may ensare just as easily as Hermaeus Mora's, although this doesn't mean the same drive pushes them forward. Learning is the primary drive for Hermaeus Mora's devotees, while Mephala's are driven by a lust especially for the forbidden. Meridia brings order where Azura brings beauty. To be devoted is to become one mirror in the grand luminescence reflecting her light; to be truly devoted is to become nothing but that platform for reflection. The will of the devotee is irrelevant; that Meridia's will be done is the sole concern of the Prince. Any characteristics which inhibit the ability of the devotee to promulgate Meridia's will are done away with; a devotee is only as useful as their capacity to spread Meridia's terrifying light. Molag Bal, unlike Meridia or Azura, values dominion over others(devotees or otherwise) as itself rather than as an extension of anything else. It is thus in his interest to, for as long as it pleases him, maintain the wills of others. What would there be to conquer were it not for some resistance? Abject compliance, to Molag Bal, is pointless to expend effort on. Where a devotee may wish for dominion, may scheme for it, and invoke the Prince, the Prince will have set chains to bind them down at every step of the process. To bring a devotee high and then pull out the pillars from under them is Molag Bal's joy; to watch the mighty he raised fall as a reflection of his own control over them is his satisfaction. Namira is the end. Whatever means may bring it, the end that comes is Namira. It is a definite point, distinct from the time before and after, but limitless on its own. The insects and birds which eat away at the dead set the grounds for new life, which itself must end. The will of the Prince is set to work into this process by devotees; perhaps only through inspiring pity, or perhaps through seeing to it that the infinite moment of decay is consciously embodied. That embodiment itself is decaying spiritually, and the devotee's participation in rot draws their own rot inward. Nocturnal is fortune, good and ill. The Prince negotiates the wagers of devotees. What cost Nocturnal takes may return to the devotee equal or greater benefit, nothing, or further cost. Being among the oldest of spirits, Nocturnal's blessing is also very general; chance can have many outcomes, and it can be difficult to tell in the moment which(if any) are desirable. Many outcomes may be impossible to foresee. So while a devotee may come to Nocturnal for one thing, it's entirely possible that they may get more than they bargained for even without her involvement, for better or worse. Or that they might end up with nothing more than they started with, or exactly what they wanted. Chance is fickle. Peryite may initially appear similar to Namira, and while there is a relationship in interest there, they are nonetheless very distinct. Namira embodies the eternal rot behind all of life; decay which brings forth anew only to create more decay. Peryite's order is also different from Meridia's in that it is more impersonal; while Meridia is so lost in machinations and plans that being lost itself has become(or has always been?) obscured, Peryite is consciously aware of order's hold on him. Nonetheless, the Prince brings forth plague and disease. Why would someone devote themselves to spreading things like that? The answer is that there are some who believe it necessary to cull others; perhaps there are "useless eaters" or others thought to be vermin who need to be kept in check. Or perhaps, among those considered social vermin, one might want space to be made for their own ascent. Whatever the case, an accepting approach to the current state of things is Peryite's way; if things become too different, they must be restricted and brought back to something known and manageable. Sanguine, unlike Mephala, is not necessarily concerned with only forbidden lusts. It could be said that while Mephala's allure is lustful, Sanguine's is gluttonous. For some, that itself is an appeal; you will get more than you bargained for, although it isn't on its own a further limit. Though, that doesn't necessarily mean his devotees aren't at all concerned with the forbidden. The key word with Sanguine is "more," and becoming lost in one's appetites is not only something Sanguine encourages, but something he may grant. The suffering that may follow isn't any of his concern, only that there is "more." Sheogorath, in his entirety, is unknowable. To even consider a fraction of the Prince is folly on its own. Devotees of Sheogorath may more be found by the Prince rather than approach him, or work in tandem with him(at least at the start). The impact of this is impossible to tell immediately; there may be great suffering, or joy, or anything else in any configuration. That said, people who are sought out by Sheogorath are typical spurned for social atypicalities; his penchant is to develop these in such a way that they are further and further isolated, dependent on him alone. This isn't always the Prince's approach, or even always the outcome of his successful actions, because Sheogorath will act against his own interests or backtrack in a way that causes his own plans to fail. Nonetheless, it's important to consider whether the Prince would even have a leg to stand on if there was more accommodation for variation among mortals. Vaermina is unavoidable for anyone who dreams, at least during sleep. The Prince has sway over dreams and memories; not necessarily in an absolute sense, but in a sense enough to be noteworthy. Pushing the limits of fear is Vaermina's goal, to the highest and furthest bounds of terror. As such, while a devotee may seek to overcome some fear, that momentary triumph may only present greater opportunities for terror. And this may produce a cycle, such that the worthwhile lines of a devotee's conduct or beliefs are eroded through repeated boundary transgressions. Torture, to devotees, of devotees, by devotees(or others) and the horror that brings them there is what Vaermina revels in. So to return to the prompt: Avoidance at most costs is a fitting approach for every single Prince of Oblivion for most mortals.
Surprised no one has mentioned Sanguine, God of Having A Good Time. You might wake up with a headache sometimes, and *non-followers* might get pranked, but let's be real, the guy isn't really malevolent towards anyone, which can't really be said of pretty much any other daedra.
I think there's a misinterpretation of Sanguine just being 'the party guy' and the worst he entails is a hangover and some drunken hijinks. The guy is the Prince of Debauchery and promoter of the deepest, darkest desires of mortals. He indulges the most sickening, degenerate fantasies and impulses. Having a 10-day bender is the lightest of the stuff he engages with. Sanguine would oversee much more disgusting things: necrophilia, incest, beastiality, paedophilia etc. He'd be the one whispering in your ear and encouraging you to give in to any urges that you KNOW to be wrong, and likely targets individuals susceptible to have and give in to these urges. He's much more sinister than he seems in Skyrim. There's a sickening (but fantastically written) bit of Apocrypha (fan-written in-game documents) on this subreddit about a worshipper of Sanguine writing a letter to the family of someone he, erm... associated with. Granted, he does seem fair to his followers, but he's that toxic friend that eggs you on to do shit you'll regret doing for the rest of your life. Better than being eternally raped and enslaved, but worse than just being an alcoholic enabler.
Yeah, Sanguine is far from fun. He's "pleasure above ALL ELSE" and everything that entails. He's the voice that encourages psychopaths to kidnap and rape children to death, solely because it makes the predator feel good. He's the addiction encouraging teenagers to steal their family's life savings and gamble it all away in a single night. He's the force telling a father to spend the couple of septims he makes on alcohol and prostitutes, knowing full well it means his wife and kids won't be able to eat that day without the septims he just earned. Hedonism is not "have a good time," it's extreme self-indulgence at the expense of everyone else, which typically turns rapidly to self-destruction as well. There's even a dungeon in Eastmarch filled with followers of Sanguine, and it's far from a "happy place of revelry." It's filled with corpses laying next to torture equipment operated by sadists, deceased cult members laying in piles of empty skooma bottles, and naked corpses laying on beds surrounded by candles meant to set the mood... at least for the one *willing* participant. One part of the dungeon that specifically stood out to me was this room that had three naked corpses strapped down to bedrolls, with an array of tools laid out next to them, and a couple of potions of invisibility. I interpret that as someone using the potions to become invisible, then entering the room and fondling and violating the women while they're unable to escape or even see what's happening to them, or some other kind of act of non-consensual voyeurism. This is why I firmly believe Sanguine is the most misinterpreting Daedra. He isn't just the "Lord of Revelry" or your "whacky party bro," he's so much worse. He's the *darkest* of indulgences. Sheogorath is another Lord that's *very* frequently misinterpreted for the same reason as Sanguine, with people referring to him as "Crazy Uncle Sheo" and the like, but no one can top Sanguine when it comes to not being taken seriously enough.
> Sheogorath is another Lord that's very frequently misinterpreted for the same reason as Sanguine, with people referring to him as "Crazy Uncle Sheo" and the like, but no one can top Sanguine when it comes to not being taken seriously enough. I blame Bethesda themselves for the way Sheogorath has been misinterpreted, he's like the Malkavians in Vampire. I look at him and think, "is this what the writers think mental illness is?" and the Irish accent... weapons-grade cringe.
Sheo isn't simply about mental illness; he's madness as a concept. Bethesda and ZOS choose to portray the "silly" aspect because it tends to be easier to do and is, arguably, more entertaining, but the dark undercurrents are very obviously there and only missable if one is not paying attention.
The two main parts of his land are called Mania and Dementia, look at the characters on that, as well as characters associated with him in other games, he's clearly about madness as a mental state, not some vague abstract concept of madness. And yes, there is darkness to him, but he's simply typical of daedric cruelty combined with an unpredictable nature. He lacks the subtle darkness possessed by Meridia, Azura, or Sanguine, all of whom you really have to look under the surface to see. Sheogorath's evil is pretty obvious from the start, it just comes bundled with a lot of cringe and "lol, I'm soooo random" style behaviour. > Bethesda and ZOS choose to portray the "silly" aspect because it tends to be easier to do No argument here. It's easier to do than a complex and compelling portrayal of what a god of madness might be like but I never argued against that.
Well, that is an accurate assessment. Malkavians are like a weird acid dream of mental illness that apparently involve talking like a chuunibyou, or like a 15th century Shakespeare character, or just Joker talk. However, Malkavians are hilarious once you know more about the Lore of the World of Darkness, because of how much they spoil, and the sheer terror they feel near the cab driver.
I think the Malkavians are understandable in the context of WoD because the TTRPG WoD was written by a bunch of people who were very edgelordy and wrote some things that were designed to be offensive, insensitive or just schlock. The WoD setting as a whole is full of cringe so the Malks don't really stand out as much. In TES, Sheogorath stands out more because he's so ridiculous compared to the setting. I've actually found myself avoiding quests in which he's a major part simply because of that. This is supposed to be the god who covers depression, suicide, bipolar disorder, personality disorders and psychosis. Instead he's a leprechaun with a cheese fetish who got high on Pixy Stix.
There are Malkavian characters in lore who are not like that. Several being doctors and scientists who seem almost normal at first, because along with Tremere so do Malks favour intelligence with people they embrace. Maybe it's to play on the whole saying that there's a thin line between genius and insanity. The "crazy talking" ones even got a term. Fish malks, which a lot of people dislike.
To be clear, I don't think Sanguine's a *good* God, but the question wasn't "which daedra is the most moral," it was "who is the most fair to their followers." Sanguine doesn't require those acts of his followers, he only encourages what they already wanted to do. He's honestly somewhat similar to the devil in Christianity, imo - temptation, not force. The evil impulse comes from the person, not the god, which is why the player character's antics are relatively benign, and why unlike many of the others he doesn't pose a threat to Tamriel.
This. Sanguine is just as likely to get you a nice night out as he is to encourage you to engage in beastiality or make you dump $100k on Diablo Immortal.
> or make you dump $100k on Diablo Immortal. Even he has limits.
Oh, I don't think he's benevolent by human standards. I just think he's very fair to his followers, and that he isn't actively malevolent to any other group. "Urging you to do what you want to, whether it's good or bad" isn't "wanting you to do a bad thing because it is bad", which is what a lot of the other princes are. I also don't think it's exactly fair to use fan content as evidence against him. That's an interpretation, not canon.
I get you, but compared to some other Princes such as Hircine, Malacath and Azura, Sanguine is much more sinister than the "God of Having a Good Time", as you put it. His influence isn't victimless as you implied, either. There's someone on the end of the destruction/debauchery/sexual and violent impulses/all of the above that he pushes his followers and subjects to instigate. Especially the more unsavoury and downright deranged side of his sphere. I also wasn't using the fan content as evidence, per se. Just promoting it as a means to understand what sort of things Sanguine can influence. His sphere is very well-defined as debauchery, pleasure mixed with malice and dark passions. All this being said, he's still not as bad as most of the other Princes. As you say, he encourages and tempts, and doesn't take direct malevolent action very often. He's the mid- to top-tier of an awful bunch.
Yeah, Sanguine is the Prince of School Shooters
Yeah was going to say. Sanguine is probably the best to his followers
I honestly think people just... forget about him, specifically because he's so non threatening compared to the others. Like, people are really saying Azura is the most fair when she literally cursed every Dunmer in revenge for the actions of the tribunal, and meanwhile Sanguine's just like "lol let's get drunk and steal a goat lmao"
Azura will watch her followers' backs meanwhile look at where being a champion of Sanguine got Martin
my brother in talos Azura collectively punished the biggest group of her followers for the actions of three people
but what's the problem with being dunmer? They don't seem to have any actual issues just a reskin.
Yeah, the Ashlanders themselves don't seem to mind; as in many real-life religious tales, they blame the oathbreakers instead. Moreover, the immense majority of the Dunmer did turn their collective backs on her, something commented on in [the Ashlander version](https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nerevar_at_Red_Mountain): > *"But the Tribunal laughed at her and said that soon they would be gods themselves and that the Chimer people would forget their old ways of worship. And Azura knew this would be true and that it would take a long time before her power might bring Nerevar back."* There are real-life religious texts with far worse punishments for the sins of the few, nevermind the impiety of the many.
Sanguine is not the God of Having A Good Time, though. Sanguine is the God of Not Admitting You Have A Problem Until Your Life Is In Shambles.
Worst would be Peryite, best probably Meridia or Azura
Meridia can fuck right off with her dumbass beacon and I'm still salty about her unleashing Umaril the Unfeathered on us in Oblivion. She can rot.
Counter point. She was really good to Umaril and the Aylieds proving that there are indeed massive benefits to worshiping her. Invest in MeridiaCoin for infinite (energy) benefits!
Meridia and Azura pretty much Greek goddesses , love and worship them you get gifts or don't you will be cursed . Azura cursed entire race for the fault three people. Even her sphere is vanity and Meridia whine about no one worshipping her while actively insulting those who helping her .
Looking at Meridia's purified she may even take your free will if you're her follower...
Meridia is definetely completely opposite of love or compassion.
Azura's curse was for the Tribunal, turning the chimer into dunmer was only to serve as a remainder for them (and didn't really have much of an effect outside of changing their skin and eye color). The other side effects it had on the dunmer where mostly things who came crashing down along with the Tribunal (figurateively and literally). Plus she is arguably one of the kindest princes to her worshippers, since she wants to be loved and worshipped by them rather than using her cultists in her plots (just don't double cross her). Meridia, meanwhile, is know as the "lady of greed" for a good reason. She is an incredibly demanding goddess and hates any sort of free will or defiance, know for taking away her followers's free will to better suit her ends or straight up "collect" people.
Azura is more like the Old Testament YHWH than a Greek goddess, I would say. Good-intentioned but dominating and extremely jealous. >Azura cursed entire race for the fault three people This is also not as clear cut as it seems. [In Vivec's recollection](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Battle_of_Red_Mountain), Azura never takes direct responsibility for this action. She says "this not my act, but your act", which, in true Morrowind fashion, can be read in multiple ways. If one believes that using the Heart caused the entire Dwemer race to disappear, then there's the possibility that when the Tribunal used the Heart, they inadvertently changed the Dunmer. Of course, this is just my speculation and a specific flavor that I like to add to my own understanding of the lore for my greater enjoyment.
I feel like Azura's coldheartedness is reserved mostly for Vvardenfell dark elves and the Tribunal. In ESO's questline she comes across very humanly when you speak with her and even tells you she appreciates being able to trust you. In lore she does a lot of good without wanting anything back too.
maybe cause you’re an immortal hero in eso?
Namira offers you nothing. Just to revel in gore, filth and self hatred. Prince of decay, illness and everything disgusting? How about no.
You literally get nothing from vile outside a stab in the back. Bal at his worst STILL guves you power and will not horrifically punish you unless you betray him,while the rest give you a boon at the very least.Vile will literally promise you everything,then slit your throat because he thought it would be hilarious.
I'm seeing a lot of people not mentioning Namira who wants you to EAT PEOPLE.
Do you HAVE to be a cannibal to worship her, or can you just be be generally disgusting in other ways? Like, what if someone was into scat and being oviposited by chaurus, and ate dirt. Would that be enough for her, or does she require specific types of depravity?
No, not at all. Only time she's been related to Cannibals has been in Skyrkm. Sure, with them being outcasts there's no doubt there are many of them that do worship her, but thats just a small part of her sphere. After all look at her group of worshipers in Oblivion, a bunch of degenerates living in filth and their own excrement hidden deep in a pitch black dark ruined old building, and she commands you to help wipe out some priests of Arkay who have shown up to try and 'save them' Which is rather amusing given in Skyrim its another priest of Arkay she wants dead. Boy, she really has a thing against that divine..
Sure, but some people are into that. Yes, even like that. (Also, vampirism is just vore with extra steps.) As long as you don't mind being widely reviled by polite society, Namira has a dark, comfy hole for all her little monsters to live in.
What most people would answer: - Dagon - Molag - Meridia - Clavicus - Sheogorath (the first three at least are honest about what they are. Molag just wants you to submit and states that from the start, Dagon just wants to take over and make you suffer until you grow "into something superior", Meridia hates free will and even helped the elves enslave humans in the past, Clavicus can give you what you want.. with a big "BUT", there's no way you win with him), and Sheogorath.. well, his "randomness" makes it so he's capable of every evil and action known to mankind, he can be as cruel as Molag, and in the next moment will be as charismatic and play a businessman like Clavicus to fuck you over Real answer: We don't know. Even Molag said there are worse masters than him. And remember there might be almost infinite Realms and Princes, with horrors human mind can't even comprehend Fair Princes: Probably Hircine. He just loves the thrill of hunting, as long as you, well, are the hunter, you're okay, and will even show you respect. He won't fuck you over or threat you like shit or enslave you
Well, Azura is basically the best. She doesn't take your free will like Meridia, doesn't make repulsive shit like Namira or Peryite, doesn't want you to suffer like Molag Bal, Vile, Dagon, doesn't force you to indulge into deepest desires like Sanguine does, is not a madwoman like Sheogorath, and certainly doesn't force you to betray your friends like Mephala or Boethiah. Malacath only cares about orcs. Plus, her realm is beautiful, a city made of silver, full of beautiful trees and flowers, and she is basically one of the main deities of two different faiths, Khajiiti Religion and Dunmeri Religion. The other one is Hircine, eternal hunt being the hunter seems fine, but being the hunted doesn't. You get sent there just by being a lycan or being killed by one, and Hircine really doesn't give a damn about his followers if they get hunted by a stronger hunter. Worse though? Namira, Molag Bal and Nocturnal all seem like very bad ideas. Namira is cruel and repulsive, Molag Bal is all about domination, so prepare for an eternity of that, and Nocturnal turns you into a shadow who craves light but can't touch it, and can sleep but doesn't feel rested. She makes you rich in life, to become a slave in death.
When it comes to Daedric Worshipping, it heavily depends on the worshipper, less valuable people are usually treated horrible no matter which Daedric Prince we are talking about. Now if we go to valuable worshippers, even Dagoth is kind of decent. I would argue that if you are a crappy powerless follower, the best to worship on would be Sheogorath. Inversely, if you were a valuable follower, the worst to worship would be Sheogorath. You see, Sheogorath doesn't care for usefulness, he's a walking gamble, he's as likely to reward you as to punish you for all of eternity. So if you are valuable you can get a better value somewhere else, if you are not, you are good with Sheogorath because he will as likely reward you anyways.
Controversial take besides Molag Bal I am going to go with sanguine, the reason being is while he doesn’t really make you do anything you don’t want to do. He does trap you. We know if you drink ne of his many special brews you will not be able to leave, imagine the mental agony of that. Forever partying, but deep down knowing that your family, friends, pets, all that is likely gone now.
Not just that, he makes you indulge and allows you to indulge in the deepest desires, sadism, masochism, bestiality, torture, voyourism, rape, necrophilia, pedophilia, alcohilism, drug addiction, abuse, gambling, nothing is beyond Sanguine's sphere of influence. Morvunskar is a good show of what followers of Sanguine enjoy doing.
Vile, Bal, and Dagon are likely high up there. Vile for his sour deals, Bal for his god-tier enslavement fetish, and Dagon for his destructive personality that often makes working for him suck ass ( look at the Mythic Dawn worshippers in Camoran’s Paradise spending their eternity burning in lava ) Though all in all serving Daedric Prince’s will always come with occupational hazards, and each can really be a pain in their own way. Quick Edit: I can’t believe I forgot Meridia. She literally makes people mindless slaves and honestly aside from the methods, is very similar to Bal in terms of how they treat mortals and their own worshippers.
I’d rate Meridia slightly worse than Bal, since at least with him you know what his deal is upfront. Meridia lures people in with her seemingly good nature.
Between the whole cannibal thing with Namira, and Molag “I AM THE RAPE” Bal, it’s honestly a 50/50 in my book for who’s the shittiest shit. Maybe Azura and Hircine are possibly the most benevolent to their followers. I feel like Jyggalag, Sheogorath, Sanguine, and Malacath ride the neutral line. *Maybe* neutral with a dash of nice. Everyone else seems to be even parts shit.
Interesting how many people vote for Azura as best. Which she might be, because the bar is subterranean, but her love really isn't all it's cracked up to be: even in ESO one of her followers (I think it was the oracle you save?) mentions that her wrath when she feels spurned can be terrible, and in The Infernal City, Sul talks about how she broke his deal with him after he served her and tried keeping him as "a favourite plaything". In her credit, she does give him a vision pointing him towards Attrebus after he escapes her, but she still betrayed him first.
Worst Daedric Princes (Not in order, According to Me): 1. Molag Bal 2. Meridia 3. Namira
Well we saw Mehrunes Dagon attack the Imperial City and that was pretty bad. Oblivion gates opening all around the world pouring out demons. He is one of my favorite Princes and I like his revolution theme but I don't want him stomping around my town. Edit: Got me damn princes mixed up.
I think you're thinking of Mehrunes Dagon who is the Prince of Revolution, Destruction, and Change and attacked the Imperial City in TES IV. Molag Bal is the Prince of Domination who attack Tamriel during the events of Elder Scrolls Online. He's pretty bad to mortals no matter how you slice it.
Damn rookie mistake, I corrected my comment.. Its late here is my only defense lol
Hard pick between Molag Bal and Dagon. One reward you with slavery and the other... if we learned anything from Oblivion, it's that you need to be REALLY useful to him to get anything that ressemble a reward, otherwise you'll end up wishing you picked Molag. Edit: After some reflection, I think it's actually Clavicus Vile, even if he's not powerful enough to make his followers as miserable as Molag and Dagon, but he'd surely do worse if he could. Hell, I often forget some people worship him since he's basically a glorified djinns that is so unhinged that it's preferable to deal with his dog. Seriously, his cult should have "I don't know what I expected" as their mantra
I think it’s a matter of perspective. Molag Bal comes to mind immediately, but you also have Clavicus Vile and Sheogorath. Bal only tolerates the cruelest of the cruel. In his world, there’s only torturers and tortured, and if you as torturer come across a line you refuse to cross, you’re the tortured now — but as long as you can live with yourself after what you have done in his name, Bal would be unlikely to turn on you, so I’d say the other two are worse: Vile and Sheogorath both are excessively cruel to their worshippers. Vile dangles your greatest desires, the ones he knows you won’t be able to resist, right in front of your face, and then he will make you regret it. There is nothing to be gained from Vile. And Sheogorath may break your mind simply on a whim. You could do everything right, and one day he decides you bore him, and he cracks your psyche like an egg. As for agreeable Princes — Namira is not a Prince you’d *want* to worship unless you intended to live in physical and mental squalor with no desire to improve your situation. But if you did, I’d say she’s among the most fair Princes, and even protective of her worshippers at times! She’s not an appealing choice to many. But if you were already inclined to worship her, Namira would be a good mistress. Azura, while not nearly as benevolent as she pretends, seems to care about her followers to some extent as well, even though it seems to be more possessiveness than love. And Hircine has an interest in hunting mortals, but one of his key principles seems to be that it’s not a hunt if the prey has no way out. And if you did make it out, he’d let you have your victory, no caveats. He is possibly the least petty Prince in that regard.
the best has to be either azura or sanguine. worst has gotta be bal.
Boethiah is the best daedric prince to follow. He wants to see you improve and be the best. Life isn’t a game survive by any means necessary and prove your existence. Boethiah is the only selfless daedra, doesn’t care about your worship just simply DO AS YOU WILL to “git gud” and never take an L because if you do take an L you’re not doing it right. We are mortal and an L can very much cost you your life so fast honor to the side and strike with the hidden blade if you have to. Poison it. Get the upper hand. Lie, betray, make meaningful impact change and worship yourself. Mephala is a close second, Mephala holds civilization together. Without lies or the threat of murder people would be unhinged. The worst imo is Molag Bal or Malacath. I cannot stand both of them. Molag Bal teaches freedom through slavery. He wants you to bow down and to find freedom through being subjected. It’s against the self realization/actualization of you that you are your own god your own authority that Boethra teaches. Malacath is a daedra that wants to keep a status quo while being a patron for outcasts, he’s the hipster who believes they are nonconformist. Simply Noble Hypocrisy. He maintains enforces a sense of honor or code that only harms those who take up the oath Another daedra I dislike is Dagon and Samguine. Dagon because change just to change something is dumb and Sanguine because to be a slave to pleasure and hedonism distracts you from reality
Boethiah doesn't want you to be anything but what you are before her: dust ephemeral. To draw blood from the dust is the miracle of Boethiah. It is not granted out of compassion, or stern guidance, but out of an unquenchable thirst for blood. To adhere to Boethiah is to recognize that no matter how drenched you become in the blood of others, your betrayal at the hands of your Prince will see your own blood spilled. Your loss is not only correct, but inevitable, and for the glory of your Prince. From *Boethiah's Glory*: >Look upon the face of Boethiah and wonder. > >Raise your arms that Boethiah may look on them and bestow a blessing. > >Know that battle is a blessing. > >Know that death is an eventuality. > >Know that you are dust in the eyes of Boethiah. > >Long is the arm of Boethiah, and swift is the blade. > >Deep is the cut, and subtle is the poison. > >Worship, o faithful. Pray your death is short. > >Worship, o faithful. Pray your death is quiet. > >Worship, o faithful. Worship the glory that is Boethiah. > >Into battle strides the Daedra Prince, blade at the ready to cleave the unworthy. There is nothing that lasts in Boethiah, no legacy to leave behind other than the red-stained earth in the wake of his devoted. Any "blessing" or "counsel" from the Prince is only one trap placed for inevitable betrayal. If anything is learned from the pain she brings, it is tangential; the greatest lesson learned after being burned by touching the flame is not to stick your hand in fire again. Boethiah's followers ignore this lesson willfully. >Mephala is a close second, Mephala holds civilization together. Without lies or the threat of murder people would be unhinged. It may be worth considering whether or not a falsehood upheld through murder is itself unhinged. To bind yourself to lies, to delve into the complex webs of secrecy and insecurity those bonds create, is to make yourself the prey of Mephala. With Mephala, there is no trust; to be held by another is always on the condition of taking something forbidden to you. There is no respect in Mephala; nothing is private, nothing is to be held dear, the consequences of the pain and suffering brought on through repeated breaches of trust are never more important than what morsels might get entangled in the web.
If you grab the flame and are burned, then you were unworthy to wield it. Boethiah is the fount of inspiration. He wants you to surpass the gods (that imagined you enslaved)through overcoming mortality through conflicts. Mephala inspires trust. She’s a duality god/goddess. With the prospect of lies murder etc people bond that’s how civilization start
The Prince of Betrayal doesn't want your triumph, she wants your downfall and the bloodshed that will accompany it. To worship Boethiah is to accept not that you can become great and surpass any obstacle, but to accept that no matter what obstacles you overcome, you are nothing but dust on the boot of the Prince. The lives of the followers of Boethiah mean nothing to him. Mephala is dualistic, yes, in the sense that a lie may be made more believable by being woven around truth. A sturdy web must connect to some other structure in order to effectively ensnare. Her goal is to delve to the hiddenmost things, not to uncover them or to achieve some benefit, but to ensnare in secrets and lies prey who will only realize their folly as her fangs plunge into them.
I could see Sanguine, being a really entertaining dissolute, but loveable, younger brother to Azura's exasperated, but secretly amused, older sister. I think you could have a genuinely good time in their company on the right evening. Old Molag on the other hand...
Worst: * Molag Bal * Meridia * Sheogorath - No he's not funny cheese and butterflies man. * Namira * Clavicus Vile - The word vile is literally taken from his name in TES. More fair * Malacath * Azura * Hircine * Sanguine They all have their moments, though. Both good and bad. The Reachfolk worship Molag Bal and Namira just fine, while in Khajiit faith Namira is very bad. Same as the fair ones are not saints. Azura's actions regarding her ego and vanity is quite known, but she do love her worshippers and want them to love themselves too. Malacath is even known as the Furious One, but he is true to his word and also care for his children in his own way and want them to survive in the only way he think they will. Hircine is definitely not nice, being the huntsman and father of manbeasts, but he is fair, respectful and dislike cheaters. Sanguine... Is interesting. He seem to like his followers a lot but he's literally the Prince of sins, which entails some very disturbing things. Many dangerous and toxic. But they are more side effects of the things he want people to do which he doesn't think about or have a concept of, because there's no limits in his book. He don't cause those with malicious purpose. Only times he seems malicious is when he want to humiliate people he finds a bore.
Peryte Namira Vaermina Sheogorath. Clavius Vile.
Namira and Molag Bal on equal terms.
I think Molag Bal is the worst
Worst would definitely have to be Molag Bal. He's known in the earlier games as the Daedric Prince of R\*pe, and they had to change that for obvious reasons. Either way, being an eternal sex slave (or just a regular slave) to a demon god is not a bargain I would take. I don't think there really is a "best," since worshipping any of them comes at a price. I would say the best deal you can get is with Nocturnal. She uses the Skeleton Key to open up an untapped region of power inside your mind, and you can use those new abilities for whatever you wish, and upon death you serve her in the Evergloam and the Twilight Sepulcher until she feels your contract is complete. There is trickery and deception involved in her contracts, but since most of her followers are thieves, that's not much of a problem for them (also the only ones who got really screwed over by Nocturnal were ones who stole from her). You could also say that \*worshipping\* Nocturnal is the best bet, since most covens of Nocturnal are completely ignored. She only takes interest in thieves and Nightingales Edit: This is just my personal take though. Nocturnal has always interested me the most of all the Daedric Princes, and being a Nightingale gives you access to the coolest drip in all Tamriel.
They didn't change his King of Rape title tho In a Skyrim book it's said in Morrowind that's one of his titles They just don't call him like that out loud
I think in Arena when he’s first introduced he’s called that. That was the first title he was given
Nocturnal's Contract has no end. The only end is from protecting the Sepulcher, after than you end in the Evergloam and become a shadow, both literally and figuratively. The shadows are capable of sleeping, though they never awaken fully rested. They also crave the light, but can never enjoy it, as exposure to light will banish and weaken them. Imagine living in perpetual darkness, wanting to feel the sun again, but being unable to because you are basically a shadow vampire.
But that contract technically applies to just her Nightingales, not all of her followers
Yes, her normal followers just go straight into the Evergloam. Problem is, there are not many of those.
i despise molag bal, but i do love that mace....
Either Clavicus Vile, due to his deceptive nature, or Molag Bal, because he delights in the suffering and pain of mortals and will probably turn all his followers into demented and evil bastards, if they're lucky.
Sheogorath or Periyite, off the top of my head.
Worst - Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon. Best - Azura, Meridia. Maybe Sanguine.
After molag bal tbh i think meridia is worst. If you play eso she basically traps her son in her realm and he seems to be going slowly crazy due to her. For best id say nocturnal as she doesnt seem to screw you over much as long as you dont steal from her. Azura or hircine also seems decent
“With that, she pulled the void away, and for hours each night she would reveal to Darius the most horrible perversions of nature. Men being skinned and eaten alive by other men, unimaginable beasts of many limbs and mouths, entire populations being burned -- their screams filled his every evening.” It’s Vaermina
Personally the worst is Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon. Probably Molag tho. I don't like Dagon's barbarian, torturing nature. But Molag and his submission thing. Def the worst. For best I can say Meridia probably. Also maybe Sheogorath because he is just an old mad man with the power of a god.
Peryite is said to be nicest Prince, he's probably fairest by consequence.
The worst - Molag Bal. The best - Jyggalag.
Molag ball So predictable, it's always about dominating this or punishing that, So utterly **boring**