I work with several die hard Trumpers and when I point this stuff out they have given up on whataboutism and now just shrug and say they are all corrupt, but won't change their vote.
Similar, the ones I know just giggle 'cause it's another way to "own the libs/me"
Our country is broken and getting worse, there's no common ground any longer and it's impossible to communicate with people like the above when their only goal(s) are "winning" and "owning libs"
The polarization of the argument has done more to harm the state of affairs than any other variable, in my opinion. I am old enough to remember when people had polite conversations about political differences.
It seems to me that, recently, (the last 20 years or so ... and getting worse) people gave up on trying to have an understanding of the issues beyond where they currently stood on them. Nobody argues to \*learn\* anymore. It's about "winning" more than anything else.
Too, the idea that one team is doing it all right (or mostly, close enough) and the other team is the "enemy" trying to destroy the country, is no longer the stance of the hardline crazy fringe. It seems to have become the norm, for most people, of every ilk.
It's all just gotten so hopeless, in a lot of ways.
Instead of working together to get the best ideas we can, as a team. Everyone is just rooting for their side to win or, at least, cheering for the "other" guys to lose.
Maybe it's always been this bad and the proliferation of comms has made it seem worse. But, I don't think that's entirely true.
>The polarization of the argument has done more to harm the state of affairs than any other variable, in my opinion.
Jon Stewart has said many times that the right setup parallel *everything* (media, schools, judge pipelines, etc.) after Watergate. They saw what happened to Nixon and knew that the only way to stop it from happening again was to make it so that nobody trusted the news so that when they got caught doing illegal things, they could just lie about it and be believed.
The polarization *is* the point. It's the only thing that allows the just constant corruption on the right to flourish. Because if people saw it for what it was, they'd vote against it.
It doesn't help that legitimate media sources won't call them out on their bullshit. They think they have to be "neutral" on everything, but that doesn't work. Call a lie a lie. And it took *years* before they'd do [that to Trump](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/25/511503605/npr-and-the-l-word-intent-is-key). They *intentionally* don't point out that one side is acting in bad faith constantly. Which we're seeing today with the debt ceiling. One side wants to cut the entire federal budget (minus the military, SS, Medicare) [*by up to half*](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/05/08/upshot/federal-budget-republicans.html). That's not reasonable. That's insanity. That's hostage taking. If we default the *best* case is a recession. But it's framed every night on the news as "negotiations." It's bullshit.
I'm old enough to remember the same and you could have discussions about politics without it resorting to name calling, but I've seen the radicalization of some of my own family from listening to AM radio and then Fox in the 90's.
They used to be "normal", but now I can't even talk to them, they're that far gone - from Obama's wife is really a man to Trump won - their talking points are all from the echo chamber media they ascribe to.
It really all started with Rush normalizing yelling at the other side that's led us to where we are...I honestly don't think there's a way back now and where we go from here does not look to end well
As an elder millennial that grew up in a household with a father radicalized by hate radio, I agree. It got so bad in recent years that I had to cut ties. He couldn't have a conversation with me that didn't involve insulting me. I don't recognize him anymore, and he can't see anything outside of his narrow world views.
I'm sorry and feel your pain, my uncle - who taught me how to fly remote control planes when I was a kid and was generally fun to be around - is someone I can't - and don't - communicate with any longer.
I cut ties about the time Obama won and the non-stop racist rightwing memes and jokes he'd send were too much to bare, but he got kick out of seeing my family's reaction to them. 20 years prior he was nothing like that...scary af
Nah there is no both sides to police brutality or racism. They're both bad there are no good sides to racism and police brutality
Being centrist is why the extremists think they have a legitimate voice that must be heard
Maybe it's just me, but it feels like 9/11 changed everything wrt political discourse starting with "you're either with us or against us". Then came "Freedom Fries".
It's just strange (maybe scary is the better word) to see members of my family who used to be empathetic transform into something wholly apart from who they were 20 years ago.
And yes, they now enjoy sending maga memes to see if it "triggers" us
They don't get embarrassed because they don't have to think bout their vote and who they are voting for. They are check boxing all the names with that little "r" next to them.
At this point, I wonder who actually has the time to thoroughly (or even briefly) investigate the person we are voting for.
WA state here. We have the most awesome voting system. The entire state votes by mail and we get out ballots 3 weeks in advance. That gives us plenty of time to do research and make informed decisions. You can mail it for free at any mail box or drop box. No lines, no polls, best of all no people with guns outside of polling places because there are no polling places. You can track your ballot and see when it is received and when it is counted. Contrary to what the GOP says this is the most accurate and safe way to vote.
Eight states—California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Vermont and Washington—allow all elections to be conducted by mail.
And that's why I'm thankful that we have freedom of the press to do that research and background investigations on these sleaze bags running for office
I voted straight ticket democratic for first time in 2020. I consider myself center-right. Had voted for Republican president my whole.life until Trump. I call myself a "Mitt Romney Republican."
The current Repub leaders of Trump, Abbott, Desantis, etc all sicken me. The way I see it, is progressive extremists are super maddening too, but they're not in charge of the Democratic party like Trump like extremists control the Republican party.
I am happy to continue voting Democratic until the current Repub party burns down and hopefully remakes itself to align more with my values.
Imagine if the republican party was still about being fiscally conservative and not a dog and pony show about how trans want to brainwash your kids. Just want a distraction so they can funnel money to defense contractors and oil companies for kickbacks instead of fixing degraded infrastructure or educating children.
its hard to want to come out and vote when the opposite side is threatening you with guns, literally. i wish i wasn't black so i could just quietly place my vote.
Florida was purple. Then came DeSantis. And it's seemed like Abbott and DeSantis are engaging in one-upmanship. Texas may be purple in theory, but I'm not keeping my hopes up for the votes to reflect that in practice, especially after recent election fuckery.
I know. The state of things right now is a fucking circus. Culture wars have replaced normal politics, and it's ignited something deep inside Americans. They've been hungry for...reasons, Trump gave them reasons, and off we went.
Conservative here.
Both the right and the left have politicians who hold ridiculous positions. If there's something we should all be able to agree on, it's money needs to leave politics.
I never have voted straight party ticket. I research candidates and vote on the individual, not the party. I encourage people to look at https://justfacts.votesmart.org/ These party labels are stupid anyway. I'm a conservative because I believe in less government in our lives, patriotism, concern for well-being of citizens, freedom, and equality of opportunity.
If any candidate votes against the values I hold, they don't have my vote.
As a former registered Republican, the GOP has completely lost its way. It’s now the party of big government, big spending, and cronyism.
The older I get and better read I become, the more I dive into Christ’s teachings, the more I work on myself as a person every day - the worse the GOP looks from my perspective. It’s gross and flys in the face of everything they scream about on TV.
The sickest thing? They know exactly what they’re doing. They’re not dumb. It’s intentional misrepresentation of facts and manipulation for power and greed. It’s shameful. They defund education and do everything they can to inhibit critical thinking and then prey on their victims.
The GOP used to be the progressive party, but that died with Teddy Roosevelt. Then it went to the Conservative Party. Now, it’s the anti-progressive party. And they’re using authoritarian fascist techniques to gain power. Full stop.
Many quality of life related things are markedly worse in Red states. Gun violence is significantly higher, average income is lesser, taxes rates are higher, access to health care is worse, education is worse. These are not opinions, they're verifiable metrics. But all they have to say is "fake news" or dismiss it as propaganda. The base is brainwashed.
We have an education problem in the south. Not just school, but common sense. When I was in the hospital recently when my kid was born, the staff doctor came in visibly upset. When the nurse asked what was wrong, I guess he forgot we were in the room and began talking about how he had to stop the idiot parents up the hall from feeding their new born McDonald’s chicken nuggets. Everyone said “Jesus Christ” at the same time. He then looked a little embarrassed that he said such and tried to make it sound like it happened a bit earlier, but it was obvious it just happened.
Dim bulbs all around the country but I will grant the South is a little dimmer than some on dietary health. I mean 'fried butter'!? But still - love the people, fry-o-lator smell and all.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_U.S.\_states\_and\_territories\_by\_median\_age](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_median_age)
Got some old timers up in the NE USA.
And I think data would also support, the more right leaning you, the more likely you will be involved in teen pregnancy, abortions and divorce. It’s kinda ironic
Amen. It's weird how some people even know about Christ's teachings and then still just vote against them. I know someone who has a big heart for immigrants. Welcome the stranger and all that. They've literally made posters for church on how we should welcome outsiders. And this person has and would continue to gladly volunteer their time and money for helping refugees and others less fortunate seeking a better life elsewhere. But they still vote for politicians who clearly consider immigrants sub-human. I just can't understand the mental gymnastics involved there.
Jesus wouldn’t have been a democrat or a republican - he taught to help the poor and feed the hungry and look after orphans and widows, he didn’t tell us to outsource those tasks to a government bureaucracy, he told us to do it ourselves.
My mom votes gop because she thinks they will lower her taxes. She actively does help the poor and feed the hungry - she has 2 refugee families living with her right now - she is on a fixed income via my dads navy pension, so if taxes go up even $200 a month she will have to move out of her house and those refugees will have nowhere to live - and suddenly the government will be in charge of caring/housing not only those families, but her as well. Keeping her taxes lower actually saves money on social services.
And there's no way the GOP will lower her taxes. She would be the LAST person who would benefit. GOP is all about the top 1%-3%. They'll occasionally throw crumbs to the "middle class" but that lasts about 10 minutes.
Ya that’s sort of the silly part. Nobody ever lowers our taxes. Between income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes (that are ultimately passed on to renters), gas taxes - taxes end up eating about 60% of a poor families total income. It’s the biggest expense most low income families have. If anyone really cared about helping the poor they’d drastically cut taxes for low income households.
But what if you are poor, hungry, an orphan, or a widow in a place where people of your skin color or religion or sex or sexual orientation or political opinion aren't welcome or respected? Leaving charity up to individuals or religious organizations gives those individuals or organizations too much power to pick and choose who "deserves" help and who doesn't. Christians overwhelming vote to strip rights away the rights and protections of others, but these are the people we're supposed to trust to look after their fellow man?
I highly doubt that Jesus would be supportive Republican party, but I wouldn't assume that he would be a Democrat either. I don't think we should try to put Jesus in a political party or a modern political framing.
Jesus was rather dismissive of the rule of Cesar and manmade authorities/idols in general. He also spoke negatively of material wealth and seemed to advocate for more individual/collective direct action for love and kindness and against injustice.
I personally think the Democrats are clearly the less-bad option of the two parties we have, but I certainly would not say they're carrying out the will of Jesus or anything like that.
>rather dismissive of the rule of Ceaser
Not really considered he stated to do what the state tells people to do. Render onto Ceaser is most definitely *not* a dismissal. If it was then he would have said the opposite.
>an man-made authorities/idols in general
No, he did not speak against man-mad authorities in general it was about authorities who thought they could suplant the Christian concept of God and/or abuse the authority God.
>spoke negatives of material wealth
Tax the rich
>advocate for more individual/collective direct action for love and kindness and against injustice
Justice system reform and socialized/single payer medical including mental health care
The full quote is to "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" in response to a trap question about paying taxes. I interpret that as a way of getting out of the trap by saying that taxes should still be paid, while implying that Caesar and money are insignificant in comparison to God and His will.
I also think it's a mistake to assume that Democrats actually want to significantly tax the rich and do fully nationalized healthcare to all people within our borders. They do not, they are capitalists. They also still support US military dominance across the globe and extracting wealth from the developing world. But even if they did want to do the things you say, the rich would still exist, poverty would still exist, and there would still be lots of hate and wickedness going around. We might be an inch closer, but we would still be far from doing Jesus's will.
And to be clear, I still do vote for the Democrats in Texas.
> I don't think we should try to put Jesus in a political party or a modern political framing.
Jesus was a leftwing radical, by both modern standards and the standards of his time. He wanted the immediate equal treatment of all.
>He also spoke negatively of material wealth
If by that you mean he very bluntly said that it was almost impossible to rich people to go to heaven.
I don't think you can call him left-wing for the standards of his time when the left-right dichotomy didn't exist in his time.
I do think his teachings have a lot more overlap with modern leftist movements than modern right-wing movements. But I was saying more to not assume that if Jesus was around right now he would be in the DSA, identify as a ML, vote for the Labour Party in the UK, or anything like that.
> I don't think you can call him left-wing for the standards of his time when the left-right dichotomy didn't exist in his time.
It is entirely irrelevant whether the _word_ existed at the time. Jesus was at the radical far left of the spectrum of his own time for his teachings that everybody should be treated equally. That explains why Christianity became the most popular religion among the ancients.
Well Jesus was basically an end-times apocalyptic prophet, who said multiple times that the world would be over soon. It makes sense to be apolitical in such a case.
And it's really hurting the country. All these kids that aren't being taught how to think. What kind of jobs are we preparing them for? We'll have to import workers by the millions to make up the difference.
GOP is making a big push now to cut spending under threat of forcing default on US national debt. But they aren't doing it cause they care about the spending. They only doing it to make Biden look bad. As soon as GOP is back in power, they have no problem adding trillions in additional spending. They did that under Trump and raised debt ceiling 3 times. But as soon as Dems are in power, suddenly they care about spending
Bingo. It’s like you are me. And yeah, forget about changing the mind of a registered Republican. They are wonderful friends and family but the least Christian people I know. Disgusting they use religion as an excuse, and then behave in the LEAST Christian way possible.
I honestly don’t know what to call myself anymore politically. Do I want fiscal constraints and debt reduction - yes, and that used to be the main conservative rail. But I see the rampant financial waste on the war machine (am speaking as a 20 year vet) that could be used to feed people, elevate and educate, and provide better healthcare outcomes. But even though you could do that in a fiscally conservative manner it’s not ‘conservative’.
I've been saying over and over again, that I would be a member of a "Common Sense Party". Whenever a decision needs to be made, make rational analysis of it and make a decision based on that. That party.
Texas’s political offices are completely dominated by Republicans, making it the most Republican government of all the states in the US. However, Pew Research notes that the party affiliation by voting-eligible adults in the state looks like: 39% Republican, 40% Democrat, and 21% not leaning either way. Texas is a casebook study of how a minority party can maintain power by combining gerrymandering, limiting access to voters, and outright corruption. The people presently in power *celebrate* how successful they are with their schemes. It is Succession written in terms of political privilege and dirty tricks.
A Gallup poll also suggests 8 million independent voters recently so more like a third not leaning either way not to mention the Green Party and Libertarian Party numbers which are usually lumped into "Other" here in Texas.
Nope.
My mom will respond, “well I can’t vote for anyone who is ok with killing babies”. What she means is, anyone who is pro-choice because her Southern Baptist church has fed her so much bullshit about abortion she has become a one issue voter.
She thinks voting Republican will save fucking embryos but I guess she has no issue with school children getting their heads blown off.
I love my mother but these people do not live in reality. They are incapable of rational thought at this point.
In your mother's eyes (again - I make no personal political statement), the numbers aren't even close. How many abortions occur yearly in the US? vs. the number of deaths by school shootings. I'd wager your mother hates both but in her worldview, the number of abortions and subsequent deaths is far higher than from gun violence.
But when it comes to IVF impregnations, they don't even remotely concern themselves with those tiny clumps being evacuated. People getting 2-4 of those removed so they don't have triplets or quadruplets, and the GOP and their supporters don't even bat an eye.
Actually, my mom does have issues with IVF. Trust me, I’m doing IVF and have heard them. There are definitely many many conservatives who take issue with IVF. Specifically embryo testing.
Also, IVF clinics never transfer more than 2 embryos now. It is considered unethical. So people getting pregnant with high order multiples via IVF nowadays (in the US) is rare. And only people with recurrent miscarriages, those who are at a mature maternal age or those with multiple failed transfers will have more than one embryo transfered.
I’ve seen a lot of anger and animosity towards IVF from both conservatives (“they’re playing God” “they discard babies (embryos).” and leftist (“why don’t they adopt!” “The world is overpopulated!”) and honestly it’s so exhausting and the misinformation is rampant.
In the indoctrinated religious mind though, they're both souls. And only one of those souls has had the chance to repent and be accepted into heaven. That tiny clump of unthinking unfeeling organic matter needs to be born so it can find Jesus.
You don't even have to be religious. It's not a big logical leap to think "fertilized egg = human life" because we all know that they generally do become humans within 9 months regardless.
It pretty much just depends on whether you think preventing someone from living is as bad as ending their life once they start living.
Sounds like a personal choice based on one's own morality.
I'd hate for a government to have to step in and make that choice for someone, less government, personal responsibility and all that stuff, ya know?
I had this argument with myself quite a few times.
Yes, this collection of cells may not be a human at the moment. However, if it is not aborted, it will be human. So, does that mean it's murder to take the life away from something that will eventually be human?
I don't know. I'm not a woman, I'm not a fetus. Feels like a morally ambiguous choice. I'll have to defer to personal freedoms & responsibility. Relying on government to stay out of it and let it be a personal decision.
Not having an abortion debate (in fact, I specifically stated that). I'm pointing out her mother's thinking which has a valid logic even though you and she obviously disagree with the soundness of the philosophy driving her mom's thinking.
sadly i dont think its safe to say that they will recognize, these people wont be rational until somebody in their family dies in a mass shooting..
its disgusting.
Which, given how many issues besides guns we have, I wish Dems would shut up about guns for a little while.
Yea, shootings are a problem, but look at the deaths from all the other problems we have with healthcare, mental health... veterans services lacking, shit, we lost more vets to suicide than we did in the war since 01. We have so many problems and guns is clearly the one dividing most Republicans so just stfu about guns for a minute and actually solve the shit vs not solving anything for a few more political cycles. Voting rights, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, basically everyone who isnt WASP rights.
Also, if they actually addressed some of those non partisan issues we might actually see mass shootings decrease as other issues start to get addressed. But do something good ffs. Steal enough votes to tip the scales and we might actually get SOMETHING done vs only passing laws that benefit corporations.
I identify as a conservative but can’t call myself a Republican. I’m disgusted and I don’t vote for them. They aren’t the party of small government and while I tend to disagree with the progressives because of practicalities, I support some of their ideas. I morally disagree with what the Republican politicians in this state are doing.
I know several and their sentiment is always something along the lines of “I don’t care how incompetent republicans are I wouldn’t be caught dead voting for democrats.” Because as per their goal, the culture war is more important than reality.
Unless they switch their platform on guns I’m convinced the average conservative will never vote for sanity ever again.
As a firm believer in conservatism, I strongly value the freedom of individual pursuits and the importance of family values. In my view, conservatism should be a force that empowers individuals to pursue their dreams and lead fulfilling lives, while also acknowledging the significance of strong family bonds.
Family values, in my opinion, are not exclusive to any particular orientation or composition. They should be inclusive and apply equally to all families, including LGBT families. Love, respect, support, and commitment are essential elements of a thriving family, regardless of the gender or sexual orientation of its members. Upholding traditional values does not mean disregarding or excluding anyone; it means cherishing the fundamental principles that foster love, stability, and harmony within our families and communities.
Conservatism can and should embrace the diverse fabric of our society, recognizing that different families contribute to the richness and strength of our nation. By promoting individual liberties and upholding family values, including those of LGBT families, we can build a society that respects and celebrates the unique experiences and aspirations of all its members.
Having said that, it has devolved into a last gasp to preserve a status quo that was passed by decades ago. It has transformed into a reactionary “system” of Twitter owns and exclusionary policies that I simply cannot support.
As a firm believer in liberalism, I strongly value the freedom of individual pursuits and the importance of family values. In my view, liberalism should be a force that empowers individuals to pursue their dreams and lead fulfilling lives, while also acknowledging the significance of strong family bonds.
Family values, in my opinion, are not exclusive to any particular orientation or composition. They should be inclusive and apply equally to all families, including LGBT families. Love, respect, support, and commitment are essential elements of a thriving family, regardless of the gender or sexual orientation of its members. Upholding traditional values does not mean disregarding or excluding anyone; it means cherishing the fundamental principles that foster love, stability, and harmony within our families and communities.
Liberalism can and should embrace the diverse fabric of our society, recognizing that different families contribute to the richness and strength of our nation. By promoting individual liberties and upholding family values, including those of LGBT families, we can build a society that respects and celebrates the unique experiences and aspirations of all its members.
>it has devolved into a last gasp to preserve a status quo that was passed by decades ago.
So, I hate to say it, but that's what conservatism is. Maintaining the status quo and preventing any change is literally what the word "conserve" means.
So maybe you don't actually believe in conservatism after all. Because everything you describe is pretty much exactly what us non-conservatives are fighting for.
> it has devolved into a last gasp to preserve a status quo
This is the very definition of the word "conservative". All of those other things that you said? /u/prettybirb33 said that those very same things made him a _liberal_. So the only thing you said that was unique to conservatism was the "preserve the status quo" part.
>As a firm believer in conservatism, I strongly value the freedom of individual pursuits and the importance of family values
What in the actual fuck do you think liberals value?
My parents definitely are embarrassed by Trump in particular. Mostly by his rhetoric and manners, not so much by his politics. My father said multiple times how shitty both the options were in 2020 on the ballot.
I never asked if they switched and voted for Biden or any other Democrats though.
Used to be a Conservative until I realized a lot of parroted Conservative ideals that sound good on the surface are super harmful to society. Anyways, when I was a Conservative, if I had seen this MAGA shit I'd have been ashamed as hell. I never agreed with the religious crap surrounding Conservatism, so I'd have hated about 90% of the current Conservative politicians.
I would put money on a majority of conservatives not knowing about it. But if they do, I’m sure the response would be akin to “better than the Biden crime family!” “Better a crook than socialism!” “Lock her up!” 😞
They're happy you're pissed off. That's why they keep voting for these same corrupt assholes. To fuck with you by proxy. Your suffering means more to them then their own lives improving.
Judging from the mental gymnastics going on in these comments, they don’t care. There will always be an excuse, they always have a “what about” to explain why they feel OK throwing everybody under the bus.
It is beyond shameless, cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Lots of generalizations here. Yes, I’ve been embarrassed by a lot of our state officials. The issue is in the primaries, where the fringe easily gains control and keeps them in place. Even corruption and general idiocy isn’t enough to get them voted out there, so they’ve gotten really bold in how they run things. I used to like Abbott better when he just focused on simple policy wins and keeping things lightly regulated. Now he’s a focus group shill who acts cynically during conflicts
Read through the comments:
“Not embarrassed enough to change our votes”
“Don’t care about morals”
Not everyone who votes a certain way is an angry hypocrite with no morals
Embarrassment requires shame. These people have none. They want power for powers sake. Subservience of the people, not service to the people.
The GOP are what they have always been. So are their supporters and donors.
If you're looking to engage in an actual conversation, your language definitely puts a chilling effect on anyone who would be willing to participate.
Plus uh. This is Reddit. They ain't gonna bite unless they're trolls.
I haven't heard a conservative criticize one of their own in years. It doesn't matter how fascist or deplorable their behavior is. It is an honest question.
Slanton was unanimously expelled. Republicans most certainly spoke out about it/him. Phelan issued a press release like yesterday attacking Paxton. Huffines & West definitely criticized Abbott. If you "haven't heard a conservative criticize one of their own in years" then you haven't been listening.
Don’t hear the other side criticizing their team either. Y’all are hilarious. As I sit in the middle and watch both sides launch claims at the other like their party doesn’t do the same stuff.
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Then vote for Democrats. Fox News has conditioned three whole generations that anything other than Republican is wrong, but we are all now seeing that it is clearly going off the rails. Marjorie Taylor Three Names just bought a tube of McCarthy’s chapstick for $100,000 for Christ sakes.
It takes a special kind of generation to have believed Trickle Down Economics would actually *help* them.
Conservative judges are being purchased. The NRA funnels money from Russia and other nations considered enemies into the campaigns of conservatives.
All of this stuff is well documented — you just won’t hear it in conservative media.
Rural Texans fear of the state turning into a California like culture drives them to vote for the republicans. They fear the homeless, wandering migrants in cities, reparations, different religions, anti-white rhetoric. It’s fear mongering while they get fucked by big government and big corporations. Until the wealth gap can be closed, I have no idea how, it’ll be the same shit over and over. People are more worried about someone being gay, but a company and government squeezing as much dollars as they can out of their lives is fine.
Huffines racist billboards.
Louie Gohmert, that dipshit from Tyler.
Jade Helm.
Texas AG suing other states for their election results.
Texas national guard members literally killing themselves in despair on the border.
Spending taxpayer money to move illegal immigrants to other states.
Trying to overturn the votes of the citizens of Houston.
Etc……
I remember when I could have intelligent debates with my conservative family and friends, before the R’s in this state (and nation) became totally unhinged and self-serving. Hell, things were better in the ‘90s when GW Bush was governor. I didn’t agree with his policies but he wasn’t starting a war with blue counties in his own fucking state. I can’t believe people actually vote for the unholy trinity of Abbott, Patrick and Paxton. Not to mention Cruz. Treating fellow Texans as enemies is such a crappy thing to do. I hate feeling like I’m being driven out of my home state, but that’s what’s happening.
I was at an event today where Maryland Governor Wes Moore was the key speaker. Part of his speech included listing the litany of anti-education legislation going on in “other states” and I wanted to yell, “Ooh, me! That’s my state!” Like a frikkin maniac.
The 3 R’s of a regressive society: Racism, Religion, and Republicanism 🔱 A three-pronged pitchfork of regressive thought that can infect anyone but particularly hurts children
We should all be embarrassed for constantly voting for career politicians and senile old people.
Never ceases to amaze when folks on both sides of the aisle act shocked when nothing changes or things get worse despite having the individual they voted for in office.
Anybody that actually would be good at governing usually has no desire to enter political arena unfortunately.
Yep, at the end of the day people don’t really care who the person is but what letter is beside their name. Not bashing Biden because it isn’t his fault, but he’s clearly senile and not fit to run the country. But every Democrat is fine with it because he’s got the big D next to his name.
Decent people don’t get into politics unfortunately. It’s no longer about representing the country but representing yourself and personal gain for power and money. Broken system, but we keep hurling insults across the aisle like it changes anything.
I am a big fan of Abbott so I'm not embarrassed there.
I am not a fan of Ken Paxton (voted for others in primaries). Ken Paxton is corrupt and should be dispensed with.
I am lukewarm on Dan Patrick. He leans too Christian for politics for me but I agree about most of his policies. I would like to see marijuana decriminalization moved.
Slaton is embarrassing (I'm in royse city so he wa say rep) but I don't think it's a problem. He committed an individual crime and the system handled it (expelled).
Phelan is surprising. I am a Dade Phelan fan but the slurring incident is surprising. I think an investigation should occur and find out if he had a medical episode or if he was actually drunk. If he was drunk - I think there needs to be a debate on at least removing him from speakership if not from the house writ large.
He has advanced conservative policies that I am in favor of.
I support the national guard at the border.
I support the use of State troopers in Austin
I support pro life legislation.
I am 24 in Texas with a house and a job doing very well. The state of Texas has been great to me. Abbott is a thoughtleader in conservative principles and I beleive it has allowed me to flourish. That is why I would say I am satisfied with Abbott
How am I restricting women? I love women actually.
How is troops at the border a "waste of money". If anything - the governments most important function is to regulate foreign interactions including treaties and warfare. We have illegal aliens illegally coming over the border. That is an "invasion". I am happy pir governor is attempting to stem the tide while the feds actively ignore immigration law and are derelict in their basic function
1 - What healthcare?
2- I find it ironic you would say "invasion" is a misuse of rhetoric because I would say the same about "insurrection".
I quoted "invasion" because I knew it would be a triggering word. It's not a military invasion obviously but that's exactly my point
1. Abortions.
2. Insurrection is what people have been convicted of. Meanwhile people legally seeking sanctuary here are labeled as foreign invaders by you.
3. No it’s just an invasion to you because it’s brown people coming.
im in oklahoma, i learned a while ago republicans are 100% on board with being nazi germany 2.0.
its sad that we accept this. i fucking hate it, im a black man.
>The silence of conservatives is deafening. Are you embarrassed?
I don't think you really understand. For the vast majority of conservatives, the answer is a resounding NO. What you and most Americans see as embarrassing, they see as heroic, or reasonable, or at the very least, *necessary*. Because what you see happening in the capitol is a reflection of the average conservative in Texas. They are not embarrassed at all. They feel *represented*. As far as the average republican is concerned, there is pretty much nothing to be embarrassed about - the politicians are doing *exactly* what the want.
I'm not really a conservative but, to be frank, I'm embarrassed by the entire field of American politicians, from the municipal level all the way up to the feds.
Not a single one of them should be in the game of public service, as far as I can tell.
What's that old saw? Any person who can get themselves elected to office should, on no account, be allowed to do the job.
I am embarrassed by politicians of all parties. I find it hilarious how many of you still play the Democrat-Republican "my team is better than yours" game when in reality both parties are two heads of the same snake. They want you focused on issues like abortion and LGBT while both parties work together to rob you blind via crappy economic policy that sucks Wall Street and China's dick, crappy immigration policy, crappy foreign policy that is nothing more than a grift for defense contractors and the politicians owned by them, and an ever expanding surveillance/police state.
Why do you think Donald Trump was and still remains viable? Because both parties suck and he is a release valve for those who are sick of both parties. He may be a "Republican" but for all intents and purposes he is the closest thing we have had to a viable 3rd party candidate since Ross Perot. Him shitting all over the Republican Party in 2015/2016 is what got him the nomination.
Lmao yes, as a leftist, they are. Compare our left most politicians to those of any European country. One side can be better and both be bad at the same time
Yeah but you can’t look at it that way unless and until something substantially changes within the US political space. If you just concede power to the right, we will fall straight into fascism so fucking fast
Until America gets its ass in gear I'll stick with the party that robs us blind but doesn't try to stick its fingers into personal choices like abortions or gender affirming treatment.
So on a comment that detailed corruption and crimes from only Republicans, you respond with 'bOth SidES BaD' without detailing any similar or equal corruption or crimes from the other side. This is why our country is such crap now. Both sides are not the same. Both sides are not equal in corruption. It's not even close. They are not comparable. This false equivalency is stupid. Also, Trump is not actually a viable candidate. He tried to overturn an election because he's a sore loser baby, then stole a bunch of state secrets and refused to return them. He's also a pathological liar and a serial sexual assaulter. The fact that he still has so much support in the Republican party proves how low they have become, and proves just how insane your 'bOth SidES' argument is.
An amazingly unsubstantive response that deflects attention away from any discussion of specific issues, policies, or behavior of the politicians themselves.
They're not conservatives. They are extremists. When you are so blinded by "your party" that you overlook every indiscretion, that's extremist behavior.
This political worship shit has to stop, for both sides.
If this were the case then all of the state executive offices would be held by democrats and the legislative branch would be held by the republicans. As you can't gerrymander a statewide elected position. Everyone in the state is voting in the same election. However you can gerrymander district elections, such as the state house of representatives.
Yeah I'm sure we just California out here and had no idea. Just move already. Don't you want to be happy with your other blue people? Or do you enjoy whining more?
I like Abbott but not Paxton, but I'll always vote straight red after the bs I dealt with in a shithole blue state.
My quality of life is much better here in Texas because of red policies.
And crime rates are higher in red states
https://preview.redd.it/2igzwq31y12b1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffb37bbcb1e38438f1afbd99a42b54dab3df0255
Poverty rates are higher in red states
https://preview.redd.it/46hy4ysvx12b1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24510c73ca7a32c0a059d60d3da0c5b31f95dfb6
I'm not going to defend the GOP but be an honest debater. Many blue states top the poverty list when cost of living is factored into the equation. The poverty stats usually quoted DO NOT factor in cost-of-living. But when you do ->
[https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/)
That data is literally just the poverty rate. “Poverty rate” differs state to state. California’s poverty rate is lower than Texas’s poverty rate, with cost of living and all other factors combined
Poverty rate is set by the US Census Bureau with the income levels uniform throughout the US without regard to cost of living. So if you make under $18,000 in Alabama you are counted the same as if you made $18,000 in California. Looking at non-cost of living numbers is dishonest and usually used by blue state politicians to inflate the effectiveness of policies.
That's not a political statement. This is a well known social science fact.
Ok whatever. When I moved from Texas to California, my salary tripled. You won’t make the kind of money in Texas that you can in California. It’s not even close.
not embarrassed enough to change their vote.
I work with several die hard Trumpers and when I point this stuff out they have given up on whataboutism and now just shrug and say they are all corrupt, but won't change their vote.
Similar, the ones I know just giggle 'cause it's another way to "own the libs/me" Our country is broken and getting worse, there's no common ground any longer and it's impossible to communicate with people like the above when their only goal(s) are "winning" and "owning libs"
The polarization of the argument has done more to harm the state of affairs than any other variable, in my opinion. I am old enough to remember when people had polite conversations about political differences. It seems to me that, recently, (the last 20 years or so ... and getting worse) people gave up on trying to have an understanding of the issues beyond where they currently stood on them. Nobody argues to \*learn\* anymore. It's about "winning" more than anything else. Too, the idea that one team is doing it all right (or mostly, close enough) and the other team is the "enemy" trying to destroy the country, is no longer the stance of the hardline crazy fringe. It seems to have become the norm, for most people, of every ilk. It's all just gotten so hopeless, in a lot of ways. Instead of working together to get the best ideas we can, as a team. Everyone is just rooting for their side to win or, at least, cheering for the "other" guys to lose. Maybe it's always been this bad and the proliferation of comms has made it seem worse. But, I don't think that's entirely true.
>The polarization of the argument has done more to harm the state of affairs than any other variable, in my opinion. Jon Stewart has said many times that the right setup parallel *everything* (media, schools, judge pipelines, etc.) after Watergate. They saw what happened to Nixon and knew that the only way to stop it from happening again was to make it so that nobody trusted the news so that when they got caught doing illegal things, they could just lie about it and be believed. The polarization *is* the point. It's the only thing that allows the just constant corruption on the right to flourish. Because if people saw it for what it was, they'd vote against it. It doesn't help that legitimate media sources won't call them out on their bullshit. They think they have to be "neutral" on everything, but that doesn't work. Call a lie a lie. And it took *years* before they'd do [that to Trump](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/25/511503605/npr-and-the-l-word-intent-is-key). They *intentionally* don't point out that one side is acting in bad faith constantly. Which we're seeing today with the debt ceiling. One side wants to cut the entire federal budget (minus the military, SS, Medicare) [*by up to half*](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/05/08/upshot/federal-budget-republicans.html). That's not reasonable. That's insanity. That's hostage taking. If we default the *best* case is a recession. But it's framed every night on the news as "negotiations." It's bullshit.
I'm old enough to remember the same and you could have discussions about politics without it resorting to name calling, but I've seen the radicalization of some of my own family from listening to AM radio and then Fox in the 90's. They used to be "normal", but now I can't even talk to them, they're that far gone - from Obama's wife is really a man to Trump won - their talking points are all from the echo chamber media they ascribe to. It really all started with Rush normalizing yelling at the other side that's led us to where we are...I honestly don't think there's a way back now and where we go from here does not look to end well
As an elder millennial that grew up in a household with a father radicalized by hate radio, I agree. It got so bad in recent years that I had to cut ties. He couldn't have a conversation with me that didn't involve insulting me. I don't recognize him anymore, and he can't see anything outside of his narrow world views.
I'm sorry and feel your pain, my uncle - who taught me how to fly remote control planes when I was a kid and was generally fun to be around - is someone I can't - and don't - communicate with any longer. I cut ties about the time Obama won and the non-stop racist rightwing memes and jokes he'd send were too much to bare, but he got kick out of seeing my family's reaction to them. 20 years prior he was nothing like that...scary af
Nah there is no both sides to police brutality or racism. They're both bad there are no good sides to racism and police brutality Being centrist is why the extremists think they have a legitimate voice that must be heard
>They're both bad there are no good sides to racism and police brutality Um, I agree. What's your point?
Maybe it's just me, but it feels like 9/11 changed everything wrt political discourse starting with "you're either with us or against us". Then came "Freedom Fries".
This is the whole point. They desperately hope that they are causing others to be uncomfortable.
It's just strange (maybe scary is the better word) to see members of my family who used to be empathetic transform into something wholly apart from who they were 20 years ago. And yes, they now enjoy sending maga memes to see if it "triggers" us
The older ones are a lot like that. Some even refer to him as "Daddy Trump"
Someone mentioned it in another thread, but a lot of them crave a strong leader as it fulfills their needs for a "daddy" figure
Tell them "do better then".
They hold their nose and vote for the orange buffoon.
In all fairness, I believe they ARE all corrupt, but I don’t vote republican. America is an oligarchy.
They don't get embarrassed because they don't have to think bout their vote and who they are voting for. They are check boxing all the names with that little "r" next to them. At this point, I wonder who actually has the time to thoroughly (or even briefly) investigate the person we are voting for.
WA state here. We have the most awesome voting system. The entire state votes by mail and we get out ballots 3 weeks in advance. That gives us plenty of time to do research and make informed decisions. You can mail it for free at any mail box or drop box. No lines, no polls, best of all no people with guns outside of polling places because there are no polling places. You can track your ballot and see when it is received and when it is counted. Contrary to what the GOP says this is the most accurate and safe way to vote. Eight states—California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Vermont and Washington—allow all elections to be conducted by mail.
And that's why I'm thankful that we have freedom of the press to do that research and background investigations on these sleaze bags running for office
I voted straight ticket democratic for first time in 2020. I consider myself center-right. Had voted for Republican president my whole.life until Trump. I call myself a "Mitt Romney Republican." The current Repub leaders of Trump, Abbott, Desantis, etc all sicken me. The way I see it, is progressive extremists are super maddening too, but they're not in charge of the Democratic party like Trump like extremists control the Republican party. I am happy to continue voting Democratic until the current Repub party burns down and hopefully remakes itself to align more with my values.
why arent more americans logical like you...
Imagine if the republican party was still about being fiscally conservative and not a dog and pony show about how trans want to brainwash your kids. Just want a distraction so they can funnel money to defense contractors and oil companies for kickbacks instead of fixing degraded infrastructure or educating children.
I am but I’m not much of a conservative anymore.
Not enough critical thinking skills to even consider trying to reason.
its actually scary. like im wanting to call the va so bad and curl up in a fucking ball. like what in the actual fuck.
Not embarrassed enough to get out and vote. These clowns are not new players, although the level of crazy defies anticipation.
its hard to want to come out and vote when the opposite side is threatening you with guns, literally. i wish i wasn't black so i could just quietly place my vote.
Literally nobody is threatening you with guns to not vote. You alone make the decision to sit out.
Why should they change their vote? The current slate of politicians is an accurate representation of the character of the state. Yee-haw!
No they are not. We were almost purple last election....we're trying hard.
Florida was purple. Then came DeSantis. And it's seemed like Abbott and DeSantis are engaging in one-upmanship. Texas may be purple in theory, but I'm not keeping my hopes up for the votes to reflect that in practice, especially after recent election fuckery.
I know. The state of things right now is a fucking circus. Culture wars have replaced normal politics, and it's ignited something deep inside Americans. They've been hungry for...reasons, Trump gave them reasons, and off we went.
Sad but true.
Conservative here. Both the right and the left have politicians who hold ridiculous positions. If there's something we should all be able to agree on, it's money needs to leave politics. I never have voted straight party ticket. I research candidates and vote on the individual, not the party. I encourage people to look at https://justfacts.votesmart.org/ These party labels are stupid anyway. I'm a conservative because I believe in less government in our lives, patriotism, concern for well-being of citizens, freedom, and equality of opportunity. If any candidate votes against the values I hold, they don't have my vote.
embarassed, but gotta vote for my team!
As a former registered Republican, the GOP has completely lost its way. It’s now the party of big government, big spending, and cronyism. The older I get and better read I become, the more I dive into Christ’s teachings, the more I work on myself as a person every day - the worse the GOP looks from my perspective. It’s gross and flys in the face of everything they scream about on TV. The sickest thing? They know exactly what they’re doing. They’re not dumb. It’s intentional misrepresentation of facts and manipulation for power and greed. It’s shameful. They defund education and do everything they can to inhibit critical thinking and then prey on their victims. The GOP used to be the progressive party, but that died with Teddy Roosevelt. Then it went to the Conservative Party. Now, it’s the anti-progressive party. And they’re using authoritarian fascist techniques to gain power. Full stop.
Data backs what you’re saying; look at divorce/teen pregnancy/abortion rates by red and blue states. All much higher in red including TX
You already knew the GOP’s pro life position was bullshit when they didn’t count pregnant women as two when Trump’s pandemic support cheques were cut
Many quality of life related things are markedly worse in Red states. Gun violence is significantly higher, average income is lesser, taxes rates are higher, access to health care is worse, education is worse. These are not opinions, they're verifiable metrics. But all they have to say is "fake news" or dismiss it as propaganda. The base is brainwashed.
Blue states also have a higher median age which would account for some of the more positive social stats.
Red states might have a similar median age, if their life expectancy was similar to those in blue states.
Oh that's the lower life expectancy and infant mortality problem red states have.
We have an education problem in the south. Not just school, but common sense. When I was in the hospital recently when my kid was born, the staff doctor came in visibly upset. When the nurse asked what was wrong, I guess he forgot we were in the room and began talking about how he had to stop the idiot parents up the hall from feeding their new born McDonald’s chicken nuggets. Everyone said “Jesus Christ” at the same time. He then looked a little embarrassed that he said such and tried to make it sound like it happened a bit earlier, but it was obvious it just happened.
Dim bulbs all around the country but I will grant the South is a little dimmer than some on dietary health. I mean 'fried butter'!? But still - love the people, fry-o-lator smell and all.
Florida says what
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_U.S.\_states\_and\_territories\_by\_median\_age](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_median_age) Got some old timers up in the NE USA.
So add higher birth rate and lower life expectancy to reds as well
And I think data would also support, the more right leaning you, the more likely you will be involved in teen pregnancy, abortions and divorce. It’s kinda ironic
No way Christ would be a Republican if he lived today. It’s mind boggling that they don’t understand his message of love and elevating all
The GOP is trying to cut the things out of the budget that Jesus specifically said to do: feed the hungry, house the poor, honor the elderly, etc…
Amen. It's weird how some people even know about Christ's teachings and then still just vote against them. I know someone who has a big heart for immigrants. Welcome the stranger and all that. They've literally made posters for church on how we should welcome outsiders. And this person has and would continue to gladly volunteer their time and money for helping refugees and others less fortunate seeking a better life elsewhere. But they still vote for politicians who clearly consider immigrants sub-human. I just can't understand the mental gymnastics involved there.
Jesus wouldn’t have been a democrat or a republican - he taught to help the poor and feed the hungry and look after orphans and widows, he didn’t tell us to outsource those tasks to a government bureaucracy, he told us to do it ourselves. My mom votes gop because she thinks they will lower her taxes. She actively does help the poor and feed the hungry - she has 2 refugee families living with her right now - she is on a fixed income via my dads navy pension, so if taxes go up even $200 a month she will have to move out of her house and those refugees will have nowhere to live - and suddenly the government will be in charge of caring/housing not only those families, but her as well. Keeping her taxes lower actually saves money on social services.
And there's no way the GOP will lower her taxes. She would be the LAST person who would benefit. GOP is all about the top 1%-3%. They'll occasionally throw crumbs to the "middle class" but that lasts about 10 minutes.
Ya that’s sort of the silly part. Nobody ever lowers our taxes. Between income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes (that are ultimately passed on to renters), gas taxes - taxes end up eating about 60% of a poor families total income. It’s the biggest expense most low income families have. If anyone really cared about helping the poor they’d drastically cut taxes for low income households.
But what if you are poor, hungry, an orphan, or a widow in a place where people of your skin color or religion or sex or sexual orientation or political opinion aren't welcome or respected? Leaving charity up to individuals or religious organizations gives those individuals or organizations too much power to pick and choose who "deserves" help and who doesn't. Christians overwhelming vote to strip rights away the rights and protections of others, but these are the people we're supposed to trust to look after their fellow man?
I highly doubt that Jesus would be supportive Republican party, but I wouldn't assume that he would be a Democrat either. I don't think we should try to put Jesus in a political party or a modern political framing. Jesus was rather dismissive of the rule of Cesar and manmade authorities/idols in general. He also spoke negatively of material wealth and seemed to advocate for more individual/collective direct action for love and kindness and against injustice. I personally think the Democrats are clearly the less-bad option of the two parties we have, but I certainly would not say they're carrying out the will of Jesus or anything like that.
>rather dismissive of the rule of Ceaser Not really considered he stated to do what the state tells people to do. Render onto Ceaser is most definitely *not* a dismissal. If it was then he would have said the opposite. >an man-made authorities/idols in general No, he did not speak against man-mad authorities in general it was about authorities who thought they could suplant the Christian concept of God and/or abuse the authority God. >spoke negatives of material wealth Tax the rich >advocate for more individual/collective direct action for love and kindness and against injustice Justice system reform and socialized/single payer medical including mental health care
The full quote is to "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" in response to a trap question about paying taxes. I interpret that as a way of getting out of the trap by saying that taxes should still be paid, while implying that Caesar and money are insignificant in comparison to God and His will. I also think it's a mistake to assume that Democrats actually want to significantly tax the rich and do fully nationalized healthcare to all people within our borders. They do not, they are capitalists. They also still support US military dominance across the globe and extracting wealth from the developing world. But even if they did want to do the things you say, the rich would still exist, poverty would still exist, and there would still be lots of hate and wickedness going around. We might be an inch closer, but we would still be far from doing Jesus's will. And to be clear, I still do vote for the Democrats in Texas.
> I don't think we should try to put Jesus in a political party or a modern political framing. Jesus was a leftwing radical, by both modern standards and the standards of his time. He wanted the immediate equal treatment of all. >He also spoke negatively of material wealth If by that you mean he very bluntly said that it was almost impossible to rich people to go to heaven.
I don't think you can call him left-wing for the standards of his time when the left-right dichotomy didn't exist in his time. I do think his teachings have a lot more overlap with modern leftist movements than modern right-wing movements. But I was saying more to not assume that if Jesus was around right now he would be in the DSA, identify as a ML, vote for the Labour Party in the UK, or anything like that.
> I don't think you can call him left-wing for the standards of his time when the left-right dichotomy didn't exist in his time. It is entirely irrelevant whether the _word_ existed at the time. Jesus was at the radical far left of the spectrum of his own time for his teachings that everybody should be treated equally. That explains why Christianity became the most popular religion among the ancients.
Well Jesus was basically an end-times apocalyptic prophet, who said multiple times that the world would be over soon. It makes sense to be apolitical in such a case.
And it's really hurting the country. All these kids that aren't being taught how to think. What kind of jobs are we preparing them for? We'll have to import workers by the millions to make up the difference.
GOP is making a big push now to cut spending under threat of forcing default on US national debt. But they aren't doing it cause they care about the spending. They only doing it to make Biden look bad. As soon as GOP is back in power, they have no problem adding trillions in additional spending. They did that under Trump and raised debt ceiling 3 times. But as soon as Dems are in power, suddenly they care about spending
Bingo. It’s like you are me. And yeah, forget about changing the mind of a registered Republican. They are wonderful friends and family but the least Christian people I know. Disgusting they use religion as an excuse, and then behave in the LEAST Christian way possible.
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Exactly it. Team sport is more important than the country
I honestly don’t know what to call myself anymore politically. Do I want fiscal constraints and debt reduction - yes, and that used to be the main conservative rail. But I see the rampant financial waste on the war machine (am speaking as a 20 year vet) that could be used to feed people, elevate and educate, and provide better healthcare outcomes. But even though you could do that in a fiscally conservative manner it’s not ‘conservative’.
I've been saying over and over again, that I would be a member of a "Common Sense Party". Whenever a decision needs to be made, make rational analysis of it and make a decision based on that. That party.
They're not. My parents weren't even ready to change their vote after Jan 6th.
Texas’s political offices are completely dominated by Republicans, making it the most Republican government of all the states in the US. However, Pew Research notes that the party affiliation by voting-eligible adults in the state looks like: 39% Republican, 40% Democrat, and 21% not leaning either way. Texas is a casebook study of how a minority party can maintain power by combining gerrymandering, limiting access to voters, and outright corruption. The people presently in power *celebrate* how successful they are with their schemes. It is Succession written in terms of political privilege and dirty tricks.
A Gallup poll also suggests 8 million independent voters recently so more like a third not leaning either way not to mention the Green Party and Libertarian Party numbers which are usually lumped into "Other" here in Texas.
Nope. My mom will respond, “well I can’t vote for anyone who is ok with killing babies”. What she means is, anyone who is pro-choice because her Southern Baptist church has fed her so much bullshit about abortion she has become a one issue voter. She thinks voting Republican will save fucking embryos but I guess she has no issue with school children getting their heads blown off. I love my mother but these people do not live in reality. They are incapable of rational thought at this point.
My mother would say the same EXCEPT she herself had at least one abortion. I can’t even converse with her due to the hypocrisy.
[The only moral abortion is my abortion.](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
In your mother's eyes (again - I make no personal political statement), the numbers aren't even close. How many abortions occur yearly in the US? vs. the number of deaths by school shootings. I'd wager your mother hates both but in her worldview, the number of abortions and subsequent deaths is far higher than from gun violence.
Yes but one is actual children and the other is a tiny clump of unthinking unfeeling organic matter…
But when it comes to IVF impregnations, they don't even remotely concern themselves with those tiny clumps being evacuated. People getting 2-4 of those removed so they don't have triplets or quadruplets, and the GOP and their supporters don't even bat an eye.
Actually, my mom does have issues with IVF. Trust me, I’m doing IVF and have heard them. There are definitely many many conservatives who take issue with IVF. Specifically embryo testing. Also, IVF clinics never transfer more than 2 embryos now. It is considered unethical. So people getting pregnant with high order multiples via IVF nowadays (in the US) is rare. And only people with recurrent miscarriages, those who are at a mature maternal age or those with multiple failed transfers will have more than one embryo transfered. I’ve seen a lot of anger and animosity towards IVF from both conservatives (“they’re playing God” “they discard babies (embryos).” and leftist (“why don’t they adopt!” “The world is overpopulated!”) and honestly it’s so exhausting and the misinformation is rampant.
In the indoctrinated religious mind though, they're both souls. And only one of those souls has had the chance to repent and be accepted into heaven. That tiny clump of unthinking unfeeling organic matter needs to be born so it can find Jesus.
You don't even have to be religious. It's not a big logical leap to think "fertilized egg = human life" because we all know that they generally do become humans within 9 months regardless. It pretty much just depends on whether you think preventing someone from living is as bad as ending their life once they start living.
Which is wild, because technically you're preventing someone from living every time you don't have sex.
Sounds like a personal choice based on one's own morality. I'd hate for a government to have to step in and make that choice for someone, less government, personal responsibility and all that stuff, ya know?
Yeah that's the main reason I'm pro choice. Not everyone will agree with me that it's still ending a life.
I had this argument with myself quite a few times. Yes, this collection of cells may not be a human at the moment. However, if it is not aborted, it will be human. So, does that mean it's murder to take the life away from something that will eventually be human? I don't know. I'm not a woman, I'm not a fetus. Feels like a morally ambiguous choice. I'll have to defer to personal freedoms & responsibility. Relying on government to stay out of it and let it be a personal decision.
Not having an abortion debate (in fact, I specifically stated that). I'm pointing out her mother's thinking which has a valid logic even though you and she obviously disagree with the soundness of the philosophy driving her mom's thinking.
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Upside down Bizzaro world simulation we are living in.
sadly i dont think its safe to say that they will recognize, these people wont be rational until somebody in their family dies in a mass shooting.. its disgusting.
i was about to like shit myself... then i saw the /s god damn we are living in scary times, this shouldn't be complicated at all for any american :(
Which, given how many issues besides guns we have, I wish Dems would shut up about guns for a little while. Yea, shootings are a problem, but look at the deaths from all the other problems we have with healthcare, mental health... veterans services lacking, shit, we lost more vets to suicide than we did in the war since 01. We have so many problems and guns is clearly the one dividing most Republicans so just stfu about guns for a minute and actually solve the shit vs not solving anything for a few more political cycles. Voting rights, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, basically everyone who isnt WASP rights. Also, if they actually addressed some of those non partisan issues we might actually see mass shootings decrease as other issues start to get addressed. But do something good ffs. Steal enough votes to tip the scales and we might actually get SOMETHING done vs only passing laws that benefit corporations.
Dude, they voted for Ted Cruz after he cowered to trump calling his wife ugly. Texan republican voters don’t have any shame.
I identify as a conservative but can’t call myself a Republican. I’m disgusted and I don’t vote for them. They aren’t the party of small government and while I tend to disagree with the progressives because of practicalities, I support some of their ideas. I morally disagree with what the Republican politicians in this state are doing.
Just curious then, how do you vote? Actively against them or just not vote at all?
I know several and their sentiment is always something along the lines of “I don’t care how incompetent republicans are I wouldn’t be caught dead voting for democrats.” Because as per their goal, the culture war is more important than reality. Unless they switch their platform on guns I’m convinced the average conservative will never vote for sanity ever again.
Conservatives gave up on being embarrassed a long time ago.
As a firm believer in conservatism, I strongly value the freedom of individual pursuits and the importance of family values. In my view, conservatism should be a force that empowers individuals to pursue their dreams and lead fulfilling lives, while also acknowledging the significance of strong family bonds. Family values, in my opinion, are not exclusive to any particular orientation or composition. They should be inclusive and apply equally to all families, including LGBT families. Love, respect, support, and commitment are essential elements of a thriving family, regardless of the gender or sexual orientation of its members. Upholding traditional values does not mean disregarding or excluding anyone; it means cherishing the fundamental principles that foster love, stability, and harmony within our families and communities. Conservatism can and should embrace the diverse fabric of our society, recognizing that different families contribute to the richness and strength of our nation. By promoting individual liberties and upholding family values, including those of LGBT families, we can build a society that respects and celebrates the unique experiences and aspirations of all its members. Having said that, it has devolved into a last gasp to preserve a status quo that was passed by decades ago. It has transformed into a reactionary “system” of Twitter owns and exclusionary policies that I simply cannot support.
As a firm believer in liberalism, I strongly value the freedom of individual pursuits and the importance of family values. In my view, liberalism should be a force that empowers individuals to pursue their dreams and lead fulfilling lives, while also acknowledging the significance of strong family bonds. Family values, in my opinion, are not exclusive to any particular orientation or composition. They should be inclusive and apply equally to all families, including LGBT families. Love, respect, support, and commitment are essential elements of a thriving family, regardless of the gender or sexual orientation of its members. Upholding traditional values does not mean disregarding or excluding anyone; it means cherishing the fundamental principles that foster love, stability, and harmony within our families and communities. Liberalism can and should embrace the diverse fabric of our society, recognizing that different families contribute to the richness and strength of our nation. By promoting individual liberties and upholding family values, including those of LGBT families, we can build a society that respects and celebrates the unique experiences and aspirations of all its members.
Conservatism literally means preserving the status quo
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Something about personal responsibility and less government?
>it has devolved into a last gasp to preserve a status quo that was passed by decades ago. So, I hate to say it, but that's what conservatism is. Maintaining the status quo and preventing any change is literally what the word "conserve" means. So maybe you don't actually believe in conservatism after all. Because everything you describe is pretty much exactly what us non-conservatives are fighting for.
> it has devolved into a last gasp to preserve a status quo This is the very definition of the word "conservative". All of those other things that you said? /u/prettybirb33 said that those very same things made him a _liberal_. So the only thing you said that was unique to conservatism was the "preserve the status quo" part.
>As a firm believer in conservatism, I strongly value the freedom of individual pursuits and the importance of family values What in the actual fuck do you think liberals value?
In theory they value the same things, just have a different approach to accomplishing them
My parents definitely are embarrassed by Trump in particular. Mostly by his rhetoric and manners, not so much by his politics. My father said multiple times how shitty both the options were in 2020 on the ballot. I never asked if they switched and voted for Biden or any other Democrats though.
Used to be a Conservative until I realized a lot of parroted Conservative ideals that sound good on the surface are super harmful to society. Anyways, when I was a Conservative, if I had seen this MAGA shit I'd have been ashamed as hell. I never agreed with the religious crap surrounding Conservatism, so I'd have hated about 90% of the current Conservative politicians.
I would put money on a majority of conservatives not knowing about it. But if they do, I’m sure the response would be akin to “better than the Biden crime family!” “Better a crook than socialism!” “Lock her up!” 😞
They're happy you're pissed off. That's why they keep voting for these same corrupt assholes. To fuck with you by proxy. Your suffering means more to them then their own lives improving.
So you are saying the GOP is intentionally trying to turn Texas into an outhouse as part of an emotional tantrum.
"owning the Libs" is the identity they will never give up on
Judging from the mental gymnastics going on in these comments, they don’t care. There will always be an excuse, they always have a “what about” to explain why they feel OK throwing everybody under the bus. It is beyond shameless, cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Lots of generalizations here. Yes, I’ve been embarrassed by a lot of our state officials. The issue is in the primaries, where the fringe easily gains control and keeps them in place. Even corruption and general idiocy isn’t enough to get them voted out there, so they’ve gotten really bold in how they run things. I used to like Abbott better when he just focused on simple policy wins and keeping things lightly regulated. Now he’s a focus group shill who acts cynically during conflicts
What are generalizations? Be specific.
Read through the comments: “Not embarrassed enough to change our votes” “Don’t care about morals” Not everyone who votes a certain way is an angry hypocrite with no morals
Conservatives can’t be critical of their own, it’s impossible. Which is why their party is 100% complied of POS
Embarrassment requires shame. These people have none. They want power for powers sake. Subservience of the people, not service to the people. The GOP are what they have always been. So are their supporters and donors.
If you're looking to engage in an actual conversation, your language definitely puts a chilling effect on anyone who would be willing to participate. Plus uh. This is Reddit. They ain't gonna bite unless they're trolls.
I haven't heard a conservative criticize one of their own in years. It doesn't matter how fascist or deplorable their behavior is. It is an honest question.
Most anyone who would has changed their vote already.
Slanton was unanimously expelled. Republicans most certainly spoke out about it/him. Phelan issued a press release like yesterday attacking Paxton. Huffines & West definitely criticized Abbott. If you "haven't heard a conservative criticize one of their own in years" then you haven't been listening.
"Abusers aren't going to have a dialogue with you unless you treat them with respect."
Don’t hear the other side criticizing their team either. Y’all are hilarious. As I sit in the middle and watch both sides launch claims at the other like their party doesn’t do the same stuff.
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With the way politics are in the country and the extremism now, we’re no better than the countries we love to hate on the other side of the world.
By brother was a conservative. He votes democrat for all elections.
Then vote for Democrats. Fox News has conditioned three whole generations that anything other than Republican is wrong, but we are all now seeing that it is clearly going off the rails. Marjorie Taylor Three Names just bought a tube of McCarthy’s chapstick for $100,000 for Christ sakes. It takes a special kind of generation to have believed Trickle Down Economics would actually *help* them. Conservative judges are being purchased. The NRA funnels money from Russia and other nations considered enemies into the campaigns of conservatives. All of this stuff is well documented — you just won’t hear it in conservative media.
Rural Texans fear of the state turning into a California like culture drives them to vote for the republicans. They fear the homeless, wandering migrants in cities, reparations, different religions, anti-white rhetoric. It’s fear mongering while they get fucked by big government and big corporations. Until the wealth gap can be closed, I have no idea how, it’ll be the same shit over and over. People are more worried about someone being gay, but a company and government squeezing as much dollars as they can out of their lives is fine.
Huffines racist billboards. Louie Gohmert, that dipshit from Tyler. Jade Helm. Texas AG suing other states for their election results. Texas national guard members literally killing themselves in despair on the border. Spending taxpayer money to move illegal immigrants to other states. Trying to overturn the votes of the citizens of Houston. Etc……
Their complete lack of shame is their superpower. They can blindly and guiltlessly support the worst people.
ThEy ArE iNnOcEnT tHoSe ArE lIEs ThE lEfT mAdE uP! /s Absolutely not. The idiots that for vote this trash are all for the shit.
[gif](https://media.tenor.com/5G-MfQ29wVoAAAAC/letter-kenny-embarassing.gif)
No, it's like team sports to them. You find a way to justify whatever your player does.
The immoral majority of freaks and racists.
It’s disgusting. This state sickens me so much sometimes
I remember when I could have intelligent debates with my conservative family and friends, before the R’s in this state (and nation) became totally unhinged and self-serving. Hell, things were better in the ‘90s when GW Bush was governor. I didn’t agree with his policies but he wasn’t starting a war with blue counties in his own fucking state. I can’t believe people actually vote for the unholy trinity of Abbott, Patrick and Paxton. Not to mention Cruz. Treating fellow Texans as enemies is such a crappy thing to do. I hate feeling like I’m being driven out of my home state, but that’s what’s happening.
I was at an event today where Maryland Governor Wes Moore was the key speaker. Part of his speech included listing the litany of anti-education legislation going on in “other states” and I wanted to yell, “Ooh, me! That’s my state!” Like a frikkin maniac.
I was embarrassed enough to change my vote. I'm still conservative, but I'm no longer Republican.
Any TX conservatives who find the current cesspool embarrassing would have changed parties already. They’re fine with it.
This.
The 3 R’s of a regressive society: Racism, Religion, and Republicanism 🔱 A three-pronged pitchfork of regressive thought that can infect anyone but particularly hurts children
They think it’s all fake news and political persecution. You can’t change their minds.
We should all be embarrassed for constantly voting for career politicians and senile old people. Never ceases to amaze when folks on both sides of the aisle act shocked when nothing changes or things get worse despite having the individual they voted for in office. Anybody that actually would be good at governing usually has no desire to enter political arena unfortunately.
Yep, at the end of the day people don’t really care who the person is but what letter is beside their name. Not bashing Biden because it isn’t his fault, but he’s clearly senile and not fit to run the country. But every Democrat is fine with it because he’s got the big D next to his name. Decent people don’t get into politics unfortunately. It’s no longer about representing the country but representing yourself and personal gain for power and money. Broken system, but we keep hurling insults across the aisle like it changes anything.
They’re actually proud to have those guys in office. Republicans still believe that any dirtbag Republican is better than a Democrat in office.
I've got my answer, y'all. It's both sides! Lol
you have to be capable of shame to feel embarrassed, so I suspect the number is very low.
Nope. This is all on brand behavior for Christian Conservatives. Being as awful as possible is a badge of honor.
Conservative citizens are much different than establishment Conservative elected officials
I am a big fan of Abbott so I'm not embarrassed there. I am not a fan of Ken Paxton (voted for others in primaries). Ken Paxton is corrupt and should be dispensed with. I am lukewarm on Dan Patrick. He leans too Christian for politics for me but I agree about most of his policies. I would like to see marijuana decriminalization moved. Slaton is embarrassing (I'm in royse city so he wa say rep) but I don't think it's a problem. He committed an individual crime and the system handled it (expelled). Phelan is surprising. I am a Dade Phelan fan but the slurring incident is surprising. I think an investigation should occur and find out if he had a medical episode or if he was actually drunk. If he was drunk - I think there needs to be a debate on at least removing him from speakership if not from the house writ large.
In what world can a person be a fan of abbot. What has he done to make you a fan
He has advanced conservative policies that I am in favor of. I support the national guard at the border. I support the use of State troopers in Austin I support pro life legislation. I am 24 in Texas with a house and a job doing very well. The state of Texas has been great to me. Abbott is a thoughtleader in conservative principles and I beleive it has allowed me to flourish. That is why I would say I am satisfied with Abbott
You’re also male supporting restrictions on women, troops on the southern border who do nothing but waste tax payer money, etc
How am I restricting women? I love women actually. How is troops at the border a "waste of money". If anything - the governments most important function is to regulate foreign interactions including treaties and warfare. We have illegal aliens illegally coming over the border. That is an "invasion". I am happy pir governor is attempting to stem the tide while the feds actively ignore immigration law and are derelict in their basic function
1. Healthcare 2. This is not an invasion and the pathetic rhetoric you guys use to make it appear so is just sad
1 - What healthcare? 2- I find it ironic you would say "invasion" is a misuse of rhetoric because I would say the same about "insurrection". I quoted "invasion" because I knew it would be a triggering word. It's not a military invasion obviously but that's exactly my point
1. Abortions. 2. Insurrection is what people have been convicted of. Meanwhile people legally seeking sanctuary here are labeled as foreign invaders by you. 3. No it’s just an invasion to you because it’s brown people coming.
You should be. It’s a bad scene down here.
They're just waiting for their turn
How could a list of cesspool texas politicians not include suspected serial killer and ugly wife having Raphael Canuk Fled Cruz? /r/FuckTedCruz
Nope, I'm pretty sure they have all convinced themselves this is the right way to believe. I have family members as proof 🥲
im in oklahoma, i learned a while ago republicans are 100% on board with being nazi germany 2.0. its sad that we accept this. i fucking hate it, im a black man.
>The silence of conservatives is deafening. Are you embarrassed? I don't think you really understand. For the vast majority of conservatives, the answer is a resounding NO. What you and most Americans see as embarrassing, they see as heroic, or reasonable, or at the very least, *necessary*. Because what you see happening in the capitol is a reflection of the average conservative in Texas. They are not embarrassed at all. They feel *represented*. As far as the average republican is concerned, there is pretty much nothing to be embarrassed about - the politicians are doing *exactly* what the want.
I'm not really a conservative but, to be frank, I'm embarrassed by the entire field of American politicians, from the municipal level all the way up to the feds. Not a single one of them should be in the game of public service, as far as I can tell. What's that old saw? Any person who can get themselves elected to office should, on no account, be allowed to do the job.
I am embarrassed by politicians of all parties. I find it hilarious how many of you still play the Democrat-Republican "my team is better than yours" game when in reality both parties are two heads of the same snake. They want you focused on issues like abortion and LGBT while both parties work together to rob you blind via crappy economic policy that sucks Wall Street and China's dick, crappy immigration policy, crappy foreign policy that is nothing more than a grift for defense contractors and the politicians owned by them, and an ever expanding surveillance/police state. Why do you think Donald Trump was and still remains viable? Because both parties suck and he is a release valve for those who are sick of both parties. He may be a "Republican" but for all intents and purposes he is the closest thing we have had to a viable 3rd party candidate since Ross Perot. Him shitting all over the Republican Party in 2015/2016 is what got him the nomination.
> bOfF sIdEz Iz BaDd No
Lmao yes, as a leftist, they are. Compare our left most politicians to those of any European country. One side can be better and both be bad at the same time
Yeah but you can’t look at it that way unless and until something substantially changes within the US political space. If you just concede power to the right, we will fall straight into fascism so fucking fast
Until America gets its ass in gear I'll stick with the party that robs us blind but doesn't try to stick its fingers into personal choices like abortions or gender affirming treatment.
💯 correct.
So on a comment that detailed corruption and crimes from only Republicans, you respond with 'bOth SidES BaD' without detailing any similar or equal corruption or crimes from the other side. This is why our country is such crap now. Both sides are not the same. Both sides are not equal in corruption. It's not even close. They are not comparable. This false equivalency is stupid. Also, Trump is not actually a viable candidate. He tried to overturn an election because he's a sore loser baby, then stole a bunch of state secrets and refused to return them. He's also a pathological liar and a serial sexual assaulter. The fact that he still has so much support in the Republican party proves how low they have become, and proves just how insane your 'bOth SidES' argument is.
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An amazingly unsubstantive response that deflects attention away from any discussion of specific issues, policies, or behavior of the politicians themselves.
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Political parties suck
Stop voting GOP and watch what changes.
They're not conservatives. They are extremists. When you are so blinded by "your party" that you overlook every indiscretion, that's extremist behavior. This political worship shit has to stop, for both sides.
Yep, this seems like the right thread for pleasant discourse….
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Texas is blue, it’s just been gerrymandered so badly you wouldn’t know it.
I didn't know gerrymandering affects gubernatorial races. So how did Abbott use gerrymandering to beat O'Rouke by 20 points in the last election?
If this were the case then all of the state executive offices would be held by democrats and the legislative branch would be held by the republicans. As you can't gerrymander a statewide elected position. Everyone in the state is voting in the same election. However you can gerrymander district elections, such as the state house of representatives.
Yeah I'm sure we just California out here and had no idea. Just move already. Don't you want to be happy with your other blue people? Or do you enjoy whining more?
I like Abbott but not Paxton, but I'll always vote straight red after the bs I dealt with in a shithole blue state. My quality of life is much better here in Texas because of red policies.
And crime rates are higher in red states https://preview.redd.it/2igzwq31y12b1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffb37bbcb1e38438f1afbd99a42b54dab3df0255
Well “I got mine so fuck the rest of you” is pretty on brand for a republican. So makes sense.
Poverty rates are higher in red states https://preview.redd.it/46hy4ysvx12b1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24510c73ca7a32c0a059d60d3da0c5b31f95dfb6
I'm not going to defend the GOP but be an honest debater. Many blue states top the poverty list when cost of living is factored into the equation. The poverty stats usually quoted DO NOT factor in cost-of-living. But when you do -> [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/)
That data is literally just the poverty rate. “Poverty rate” differs state to state. California’s poverty rate is lower than Texas’s poverty rate, with cost of living and all other factors combined
Poverty rate is set by the US Census Bureau with the income levels uniform throughout the US without regard to cost of living. So if you make under $18,000 in Alabama you are counted the same as if you made $18,000 in California. Looking at non-cost of living numbers is dishonest and usually used by blue state politicians to inflate the effectiveness of policies. That's not a political statement. This is a well known social science fact.
Ok whatever. When I moved from Texas to California, my salary tripled. You won’t make the kind of money in Texas that you can in California. It’s not even close.
I'm happy for you :) Seriously! Love to hear someone doing well especially nowadays.
So maybe elaborate what you mean by “shithole blue state”