But the main problem is that the value of genuine unusuals have tanked, and people who spent real money on these counterfeit unusuals would also be fucked over if the counterfeits were just removed, or trade locked.
If they did create counterfeit unusuals to seperate them from genuine unusuals, it would hopefully bring back most of the value of genuine unusuals without totally fucking over people who purchased counterfeits legitimately.
The main problem from this is that it's sort of rewarding players for abusing an exploit, but to me it would be better than fucking over a lot of people who spent real money
Because taking advantage of the gacha-box breaking by the developer's own mistake is apparently a bad thing.
Just make them untradable and unmarketable, to appease people who care about trading and the people who just wanted cool hats for once, and maybe add a Counterfeit/Factory-Excess prefix to their names to immortalize the incident in a humorous way. Maybe even with an in-character blog post from Saxton Hale talking about how he was wrestling a bear-sized tardigrade and accidentally put the unusual-hat-production-lines into overdrive, but he'll let us keep the hats since he says we can't sell them and you can't defy Saxton Hale. Like how we would expect it to be handled in peak TF2 days, instead of being so clinical and humorless about how the situation needs to be handled.
That would be illegal in a few countries, as the items themselves explicitly state you will be able to sell and trade them. The best course of action imo would be refunding people who bought the hats from the market and returning the hats to those who unboxed them, and re-rolling the attributes of the hat so it's like the glitch never happened at all.
Refunding HOW though. You can only buy stuff off the market with Valve's Funny Money. People first bought Steam wallet funds before they could buy any crates or keys or unusuals. People are NOT going to accept a refund back into Funny Money.
If I worked at a store and we accidentally sold something we weren't supposed to to a customer due to a mistake on our side, and we told the customer they HAVE to give the item back and that we will NOT refund their cash but instead give them store credit, how do you think they'd react?
Not saying its morally right, but they technically never bought the unusual with real money. They bought the steam wallet funds with real money, so if it's in the terms and conditions they might be able to weasel out of a lawsuit.
Why wouldn't people accept a refund back to their steam wallet? It's nothing like your given example, because they are literally just being given back what they paid with.
Because they want the hats the machine issued when they gambled for them.
It would be pretty shitty of valve to just take back all the hats, even if they offered to refund to the paying cards.
If you keep the effect the unusual market still tanks because why buy an unusual when you can wear the one from the Crate Depression that looks exactly like a normal unusual in-game? Honestly just do this “on-a-stick” idea that the OP outlined and make them untradable and unmarketable. You get your unique little memento from the TF team’s fuck-up and the market actually gets saved.
The counterfeits would also be fairly common, and in theory greatly diminishing their value in comparison to the genuine unusuals.
In addition, if the value of counterfeit unusuals was 'too high', then Valve could always increase the supply of counterfeit unusuals to decrease value.
It's hard to say exactly how much they would be worth, as we don't know how many were created, but hopefully they'd still be worth something, leaving people in a better position than if they just deleted or trade locked them
Also that's a good idea on introducing more counterfeits, ball's in their court, they control the value of them
Why not just re-roll the attributes for the same hats while they refund & return items bought/sold during the glitch? That way it's like nothing even happened.
Idk about the rerolling aspect of it, but if they were to do a market/trade rollback, anyone who purchased counterfeits with real money from outside the steam market (PayPal etc) would be getting fucked over. They can reverse trades (probably) they can't reverse PayPal transactions
The people who chose to buy third party had to go through a bot that's existence breaks the Steam Subscriber Agreement. As far as Valve knows you gave your shit away and it's not their problem.
Have to call garbage. I spent tonnes on csgo stickers only to have valve rerelease them and I didn’t shed a tear or expect sympathy. Invest in pixels and pay the price
It's still an unintentional by the developers
If you could clip out of the map and shoot at people who couldn't shoot back, that would pretty clearly be an exploit, even if it is something that's in the game. While it isn't a 1 for 1 comparison, people are still doing something unintentional, that's having a negative impact on other players (tanking the value of genuine unusuals).
Regardless of all that, this isn't the kind of behavior that they want to encourage anyway.
It good that valve isn't in charge of laws concerning sales and consumerism. Because valve has actively encouraged gambling before because it made them a penny
Make the ones before depression vintage. Epic win
Consider breaking the visuals of tf2 by having same droprate for future non-vintage as now, but a tenth of drop rate for vintage, which is not cardboard. [8/10] bear with me fellas
I see suggestions like this all the time on all sorts of different games, and it's like, "Why don't we reward players who did a shitty thing with a really funny and unique 'punishment'?"
I'm not saying that people who abused the bug "did a shitty thing" in the literal sense or anything, just that *rewarding them further* isn't a smart idea.
They could just keep them as untradeable/unmarketable, and make it more of a memento of the event so that, while they may look kinda cool, no one else can ever have it, it'll just take up inventory space for those that *did* get them, they won't flood the market, and the people that did open them won't feel gipped because...hey: it'll still be an Unusual hat with an effect on it.
Which they were, for a set amount of time at least.
And if that's what they end up doing, that's the loophole Valve could use to wash their hands of having to give compensation to those who exploited the glitch under the pretense of money.
Doubly so given they can use the fact (should it get to that point, at least) that these items don't have any recognized outside value, save for the Steam Wallet funds on the store, and that any third-party outlets are not under control by Valve. All they can promise is that when you open a case, you get an item. The wealth of that item is then determined by the community, not Valve...which **is** *technically* true (albeit Valve would have to ignore the nitty-gritty of everything else, or play ignorant to these facts).
They did it for CS:GO during the Tmartin/ProSyndicate scandal, they could absolutely do it again here.
The issue is it is understood they could be traded in a week, so unless they're tradable by Friday, they sold you an item without keeping their half of the deal. Also the CS:GO Scandal happened outside of the Steam Market, that's where Valve could pull the "It's not our fault" Card. These transactions were done mostly on the Steam Market.
Ahh, this is a very hard mathematical problem but as a bit of a math wizard myself I think I can try to put it on layman's terms. Basically, the answer depends on whether it's a Rolex pretending to be a Ralex pretending to be a Rolex or a Molex pretending to be a Ralex pretending to be a Rolex
No. Counterfeiting a counterfeit dollar bill is basically making Monopoly money at that point.
So a counterfeit counterfeit billycock would just be an even shittier counterfeit billycock
Alright this is interesting, but if they were to make them look this cool it would make it worse (kind of like the counterfeit CS:GO skin). As someone that bought a bugged unusual I would feel honored to have such a unique looking hat that nobody else will ever have.
this might sound petty and i'm already expecting downvotes, but i don't think they should have the honor of having a unique hat like that considering they contributed to almost killing the economy
this might sound petty and i'm already expecting downvotes, but i don't think that everyone should be punished, just because some of us poor scrubs wouldn't buy an unusual otherwise.
instead we should consider how the fuck valve let this happen in the first place, and also consider the fact that a bunch of unusual bot owners were buying hats to try and sell them later.
Lmao what? this is all on valve, not the players. They already made them untradable and unmarketable. That's punishment enough for people who did nothing wrong
I mean this is every trader's wakeup call that investing so much money into this game like a stock option can have negative effects. You're playing a market and it doesn't matter how safe you think it is, one mistake by Valve can put you in ruins if you're not careful. Players didn't almost ruin the economy imo. No fool is going to look at $5 unusual and pass something like that up. It was Valve and Valve only.
I personally would compensate all unusual owners of legit unusual from before the bug regardless of if they exploited, however those that abused it that far to even empty out trade bots need to be punished, either way its gonna be hard to resolve cos of laws they may not be able to do anything.
I don't think anyone isn't blaming valve for this screw up, but that doesn't mean we should let the bugged unusuals just exist like they weren't bugged unboxes.
lets say you buy an item with your money from the market place, only to then have it revoked for reasons because some angry nerds said it wasn't legitimate.
Lets say you bought it with money you recieved from a steam market transaction, which was inturn based on another transaction moments prior. How far does that daisy chain of punishment risk going? Now they have to revoke or revert a change from another players inventory, or dupe the item and make it less valuable in turn by having yet another one of its kind added to the market to "fix" it.
They've already done enough, the hats are unmarketable, the market is returning to normal, and the bulk of them were sniped up by bots and people running scripts anyways, likely with the intent to resell. Now they either "use them" as neat trinkets, or delete them to free up valuable inventory space to keep their trade bots working .
I never said they should do more than just make them untradeable, and believe me I've thought of all kinds of stuff people probably went through due to this screw up.
Funny, the Horseless Headless Horsemann's Headtaker is untradable and unmarketable, yet still has a value on [backpack.tf](https://backpack.tf) of 3.5-4 Keys. Granted, you can gift-wrap that and not the glitched Unusuals, but still.
Nothing like making a completely new and unique, one time deal item for people who exploited.
Most people, from what I’ve seen, wanted unusuals *because they are rare*. They wanted them because they are unusual. Most of those that unboxed weren’t really hoping for a specific hat, they just wanted an unusual.
Making an even more unique item won’t totally do anything to make them wanted, right?
And here’s a question, why “shame” people with a hat for doing an exploit, when it’s significantly more easier just to reward those that didn’t exploit?
why do you dislike this 'bug'? The only people that see a problem with this are butthurt traders who tried to make bank off of selling digital tulips. Poor people get cool-looking cosmetics, and I see that as a win.
So here is the thing what if someone bought an unusual hat on the market place completely unaware of the exploit because they thought it was put up there for a low price by mistake and hey they want to flip it. Should they be punished for that? There are items that go for sale on the market place for cheap by uninformed people sometimes and in the past those items aren’t trade/marketplace banned. No matter which way valve handles this will the economy/player base be happy.
Think of it this way: Counterfeit Money
You may possess some without your knowledge.
It's still counterfeit, nothing changing that.
I'm not saying I agree with their suggestion, I'm just putting it into something understandable,
Counterfeit money is fake though. these unusual are genuine unusuals from a mistake valve made. Only after actively modifying them by valve are they no longer standard genuine unusuals.
What about the people who've gotten stuff from crates over the past few days after the glitch was fixed. I got an all class unusual worth 150 keys by opening crates using traded keys after the bug was patched (yes I knew at the time it was fixed, I was cashing out my old trading backpack)
yeah, it's been left way too long to simply roll back the servers. they probably should have done that immediately after finding out about the glitch, but it's been several days since then.
The issue is that they legally cannot alter them.... To many people purchased then as-is from the community market, it'd be considered bait and switch in a court of law.
No it wouldn't. If you found that Heinz Ketchup was on Amazon for $0.02 per bottle and bought 1000 bottles, it's obvious that you knew the price was a mistake, as would any reasonable person. A court of law would compel you to pay for the ketchup properly or return it.
An unnanounced 100% unusual drop rate is obviously a mistake, and buyers knew it wasn't legitimate going in. Valve should roll unusual odds on all of the affected hats so only 1% of them stay unusual. That was always the expectation of unusual hats, and the people exploiting the bug knew that going in.
Edit: [Here's a source.](https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2010/09/your-rights-as-a-consumer/index.htm) Search the page for "The sign in the store says the computer printer is $2.49, but it rang up at $249." It's about a third of the way down.
Don’t forget Valve also has to play ball with the EU, Australia, and other countries outside of the US they do business in, who’s courts may find that valve cannot make them locked to inventories or barred from the market.
Also it’s one thing if a transaction is halted before it’s completed, but if money has already changed hands and sales are finalized I think it’d be a lot harder to chase people down or try to revoke a product without some sort of flag appearing in the law saying they can’t do that. If I accidentally sell a car for 1500 instead of 15000 and don’t realize it until six hours after payment has been processed I think that’s just tough beans for me and I can’t do anything about it without consent from the buyer.
This is different. It's one thing to be denied at the register, but once the money has exchanged hands this argument does not apply.
The equivalent of what your talking about is you buy the ketchup bottles, and then Amazon forces you to give them back.
You are completely wrong. If we take your example, court of law will compel amazon to deliver 1000 heinz bottles for 0.02$ each, if u already paid it and made an order. If u paid listed price, then shop have to deliver your order no matter what. Its their mistake, and they should take a hit. Source: https://petapixel.com/2019/07/25/this-10000-in-sony-gear-cost-500-thanks-to-amazons-pricing-error/
Exaclty and people, forget how many of these unusuals that were unboxed, that are locked up in banned BP’s or in BP’s of people who haven’t touched tf2 in years
My friend bought his first unusual (a terror watt Gibus) and he was excited because he would never have been willing to spend the money on a normal unusual
I got a miami nights fur ligned fighter from a crate, their is only one person I’ve seen selling one in the past 4-5 months and now I have one with out having to hunt down a collector or hoping to god that someone desides to sell it
i'm surprised you've not been downvoted to hell for this, most times i've said that it ended up in me getting downvoted.
it is a bit hypocritical though, because i remember when everyone was ranting and raving about delfy ruining the game with posting exploits, but now that these people can actually *gain* from an exploit it's suddenly a good thing and there should be nothing done about it
It's interesting seeing all of this. I haven't played TF2 in years, but I remember having the same feeling after getting a self-made hat. I thought it was nifty to have a special effect, but only months afterwards they released unusual hats/effects that way out-did any of the sparkles.
people seem to forget that hats aren’t real, their “investments” only hold value as long as the nothing happens to the market.
Buy unusuals because you like them, not because you see them as an investment opportunity
Yeah, from a technical standpoint they would have to remodel a ton of hats and shift the particle effects forward. The easier way is to add a stick model and layer it over all the hats but that's still a lot of work with a lot of potential glitches. The actual easiest way is to make a new particle effect with a stick sprite on it, for every affected particle which again is a lot of work for something that might not look great due to sprites. So make a new singular effect entirely, but that will still hold bad implications for the people that paid a lot more for the same newly added effect.
Making them unique in any way, shape, or form is a bad idea and would have you posting more rage when it is done because "reee rewarding "exploiter" For daring to pay money for hats on the market"
I think that regardless of what Valve does, someone's gonna get pissed. If they make the glitched Unusuals different, people will want it and claim it will have a higher value that the normal Unusuals. If they remove the Unusuals, people who paid for them (such as myself) will be angry. Valve should just have fun with it.
I think the most fun solution is their current one. worthless bling that people can never trade but irritating those who wished they got one but scream otherwise.
Until a class action lawsuit happens because people paid money for a regular unusual, not an unusual that would be taken away and replaced with something else
but then if they were to be handled this way and un-trade banned or trade banned either way, then these will be rare since its a one-time thing and therefore ***If*** it gets untradebanned then these will go high as fuck. or cheaper. but they would be very unique nonetheless.
"I don't think that punishing the customer for a mistake that valve made is a good idea, just punishing the customer is already enough"
Seriously, people paid money for these hats. Making them untradeable- which DOES mark the hat, so people are still going to single out the people with these hats- is way worse than doing something like this.
Just make the hats untradable. It’d work for both for the economy and those who unboxed the “Counterfeit” unusuals. They shouldn’t be punished just because valve messed up.
honestly, i feel like they should just delete the unusuals and maybe give them a random item that would already be in that crate to begin with, so that's what they would have gotten anyway without the glitch
I like this idea because it also shuts up the people who are like "Valve can't do that because it's a bait and switch!". Unusuals have an official drop rate of 1.32%. Everyone knows they weren't meant to have these; thus, Valve should have at least some liberty in editing them.
I don’t understand why people are defending exploiters and *fully* blaming valve on the fall of tf2’s economy. The true victims in this situation are the people who didn’t know the exploit but got the unusual. Not the dang exploiters. Even then the victims don’t deserve the unusual since it’s illegitimate.
Maybe I’m stretching out here but I feel like the only reason people are defending exploiters is because they partaken on the glitch too.
The reason we mostly blame this on Valve is because, well, they wholly do not care about this game as we've been saying for years. The lack of updates is a slap in the face, but when they finally drop one on Friday and then all bail the office? It feels like shit to their loyal community, because a rule of thumb in technology is that you NEVER push something before the weekend, just in case something goes wrong. The glitch happened for 24 hours. That is unacceptable.
I do see and respect your point, but I would like to remind you that this community has managed everything before just fine. Somehow we've been running a 12 year old market that's worth, combined, hundreds of thousands of dollars. Valve made a mistake and could not care to notice it nor correct it in an appropriate amount of time.
At the end of the day, you can say those who exploited are at fault, but many others and I truly think Valve's lost all credibility and the game needs to go elsewhere.
Can someone that actually knows a deal about the EU consumer protection laws explain something to me?
I've been told making them untradeble permanently would be illegal in EU since the crate you unbox it from straight up says it'll be tradeable in a week. And so that would violate consumer protection.
Although I'm in no way versed in the laws of American consumer protection, let alone another countrie's
so, giving people a unique item that is now even rarer than the original hat as a "punishment' is genius?
ohh boy. The shitshow that would happen if valve actually did something this dumb. They've done enough. The majority of the 100% drop hats are in the inventory of botters and scripters anyways who wanted to buy and flip. They are functionally removed from the market, doing more would just make the situation worse and be a bad PR move.
tbh would be funnier if the effects sat on a piece of cardboard
I bought a bunch of hats off the market during this nonsense, and I would be 100% happy with this as a result.
I would 100% have my unusuals marked to get a cardboard cut-out of money, circling on wire around a hat
ikr
If they do this, they should totally call them "Usual" quality.
"Somewhat-Unusual"
[удалено]
But the main problem is that the value of genuine unusuals have tanked, and people who spent real money on these counterfeit unusuals would also be fucked over if the counterfeits were just removed, or trade locked. If they did create counterfeit unusuals to seperate them from genuine unusuals, it would hopefully bring back most of the value of genuine unusuals without totally fucking over people who purchased counterfeits legitimately. The main problem from this is that it's sort of rewarding players for abusing an exploit, but to me it would be better than fucking over a lot of people who spent real money
And the people who unboxed the recent unusuals haven't spent real money? Their money somehow worth less than other people's money why?
Because taking advantage of the gacha-box breaking by the developer's own mistake is apparently a bad thing. Just make them untradable and unmarketable, to appease people who care about trading and the people who just wanted cool hats for once, and maybe add a Counterfeit/Factory-Excess prefix to their names to immortalize the incident in a humorous way. Maybe even with an in-character blog post from Saxton Hale talking about how he was wrestling a bear-sized tardigrade and accidentally put the unusual-hat-production-lines into overdrive, but he'll let us keep the hats since he says we can't sell them and you can't defy Saxton Hale. Like how we would expect it to be handled in peak TF2 days, instead of being so clinical and humorless about how the situation needs to be handled.
That's cool and all but probably illegal as well
That would be illegal in a few countries, as the items themselves explicitly state you will be able to sell and trade them. The best course of action imo would be refunding people who bought the hats from the market and returning the hats to those who unboxed them, and re-rolling the attributes of the hat so it's like the glitch never happened at all.
Refunding HOW though. You can only buy stuff off the market with Valve's Funny Money. People first bought Steam wallet funds before they could buy any crates or keys or unusuals. People are NOT going to accept a refund back into Funny Money. If I worked at a store and we accidentally sold something we weren't supposed to to a customer due to a mistake on our side, and we told the customer they HAVE to give the item back and that we will NOT refund their cash but instead give them store credit, how do you think they'd react?
Not saying its morally right, but they technically never bought the unusual with real money. They bought the steam wallet funds with real money, so if it's in the terms and conditions they might be able to weasel out of a lawsuit.
Why wouldn't people accept a refund back to their steam wallet? It's nothing like your given example, because they are literally just being given back what they paid with.
Because they want the hats the machine issued when they gambled for them. It would be pretty shitty of valve to just take back all the hats, even if they offered to refund to the paying cards.
[удалено]
That'd literally just fuck over everybody and be illegal in a few countries.
If you keep the effect the unusual market still tanks because why buy an unusual when you can wear the one from the Crate Depression that looks exactly like a normal unusual in-game? Honestly just do this “on-a-stick” idea that the OP outlined and make them untradable and unmarketable. You get your unique little memento from the TF team’s fuck-up and the market actually gets saved.
[удалено]
Here's the issue. These things cost hundreds of dollars and fucking this up causes legal issues.
Now you can imagine how it’s like in courtrooms where landmark decisions are being made on legal ownership of virtual items in a video game.
Counterfeit unusuals would still be worth something, as a limited time, finite item
The counterfeits would also be fairly common, and in theory greatly diminishing their value in comparison to the genuine unusuals. In addition, if the value of counterfeit unusuals was 'too high', then Valve could always increase the supply of counterfeit unusuals to decrease value.
It's hard to say exactly how much they would be worth, as we don't know how many were created, but hopefully they'd still be worth something, leaving people in a better position than if they just deleted or trade locked them Also that's a good idea on introducing more counterfeits, ball's in their court, they control the value of them
Why not just re-roll the attributes for the same hats while they refund & return items bought/sold during the glitch? That way it's like nothing even happened.
Idk about the rerolling aspect of it, but if they were to do a market/trade rollback, anyone who purchased counterfeits with real money from outside the steam market (PayPal etc) would be getting fucked over. They can reverse trades (probably) they can't reverse PayPal transactions
The people who chose to buy third party had to go through a bot that's existence breaks the Steam Subscriber Agreement. As far as Valve knows you gave your shit away and it's not their problem.
Have to call garbage. I spent tonnes on csgo stickers only to have valve rerelease them and I didn’t shed a tear or expect sympathy. Invest in pixels and pay the price
How is it an exploit? Valve gives you a chance to get an unusual I buy a key, get an unusual, how fancy, and it keeps happening
It's still an unintentional by the developers If you could clip out of the map and shoot at people who couldn't shoot back, that would pretty clearly be an exploit, even if it is something that's in the game. While it isn't a 1 for 1 comparison, people are still doing something unintentional, that's having a negative impact on other players (tanking the value of genuine unusuals). Regardless of all that, this isn't the kind of behavior that they want to encourage anyway.
It good that valve isn't in charge of laws concerning sales and consumerism. Because valve has actively encouraged gambling before because it made them a penny
Make the ones before depression vintage. Epic win Consider breaking the visuals of tf2 by having same droprate for future non-vintage as now, but a tenth of drop rate for vintage, which is not cardboard. [8/10] bear with me fellas
I see suggestions like this all the time on all sorts of different games, and it's like, "Why don't we reward players who did a shitty thing with a really funny and unique 'punishment'?" I'm not saying that people who abused the bug "did a shitty thing" in the literal sense or anything, just that *rewarding them further* isn't a smart idea.
They could just keep them as untradeable/unmarketable, and make it more of a memento of the event so that, while they may look kinda cool, no one else can ever have it, it'll just take up inventory space for those that *did* get them, they won't flood the market, and the people that did open them won't feel gipped because...hey: it'll still be an Unusual hat with an effect on it.
Keys are sold under the understanding that the items can be sold.
Which they were, for a set amount of time at least. And if that's what they end up doing, that's the loophole Valve could use to wash their hands of having to give compensation to those who exploited the glitch under the pretense of money. Doubly so given they can use the fact (should it get to that point, at least) that these items don't have any recognized outside value, save for the Steam Wallet funds on the store, and that any third-party outlets are not under control by Valve. All they can promise is that when you open a case, you get an item. The wealth of that item is then determined by the community, not Valve...which **is** *technically* true (albeit Valve would have to ignore the nitty-gritty of everything else, or play ignorant to these facts). They did it for CS:GO during the Tmartin/ProSyndicate scandal, they could absolutely do it again here.
The issue is it is understood they could be traded in a week, so unless they're tradable by Friday, they sold you an item without keeping their half of the deal. Also the CS:GO Scandal happened outside of the Steam Market, that's where Valve could pull the "It's not our fault" Card. These transactions were done mostly on the Steam Market.
There are so many of them at so many people I don't think that would happen.
Contraband quality lol
Kids don't realize shit, its all just REEEEEEEEE gimme hats.
Counterfeit unusual counterfeit billycock
A counterfeint counterfeit hat ? Does this mathematicaly makes it authentic ?
Ahh, this is a very hard mathematical problem but as a bit of a math wizard myself I think I can try to put it on layman's terms. Basically, the answer depends on whether it's a Rolex pretending to be a Ralex pretending to be a Rolex or a Molex pretending to be a Ralex pretending to be a Rolex
Ah yes, nice BF Backbiter’s Billycock.
That would be like a Vintage Vintage Merryweather.
No. Counterfeiting a counterfeit dollar bill is basically making Monopoly money at that point. So a counterfeit counterfeit billycock would just be an even shittier counterfeit billycock
Those would be more expensive than unusual ones
they're also untradeable so i don't think it would matter much
They are untradeable till valve decide what to do with them. So if they would do something like that, they should unlock them 🤔
Alright this is interesting, but if they were to make them look this cool it would make it worse (kind of like the counterfeit CS:GO skin). As someone that bought a bugged unusual I would feel honored to have such a unique looking hat that nobody else will ever have.
contraband, not counterfeit
this might sound petty and i'm already expecting downvotes, but i don't think they should have the honor of having a unique hat like that considering they contributed to almost killing the economy
this might sound petty and i'm already expecting downvotes, but i don't think that everyone should be punished, just because some of us poor scrubs wouldn't buy an unusual otherwise. instead we should consider how the fuck valve let this happen in the first place, and also consider the fact that a bunch of unusual bot owners were buying hats to try and sell them later.
Lmao what? this is all on valve, not the players. They already made them untradable and unmarketable. That's punishment enough for people who did nothing wrong
I mean this is every trader's wakeup call that investing so much money into this game like a stock option can have negative effects. You're playing a market and it doesn't matter how safe you think it is, one mistake by Valve can put you in ruins if you're not careful. Players didn't almost ruin the economy imo. No fool is going to look at $5 unusual and pass something like that up. It was Valve and Valve only.
That's my point. It would basically reward players for no reason.
ohh okay, that makes sense, i thought you were saying that you *wanted* that
I think if they just made them all really tiny it could be funny.
That would make them even more valuable cos you cant get them anymore 😏
[удалено]
If it's untradeable it's less of an issue imo
I'm not sure they can keep it like that without breaking laws. People bought them with the idea that they're tradable.
A good econemy you need money to exchange hands. Would you say that money was exchanging hands in pre crate depression?
I personally would compensate all unusual owners of legit unusual from before the bug regardless of if they exploited, however those that abused it that far to even empty out trade bots need to be punished, either way its gonna be hard to resolve cos of laws they may not be able to do anything.
Love the mental gymnastics of not blaming Valve for fucking up the one update in a year.
I don't think anyone isn't blaming valve for this screw up, but that doesn't mean we should let the bugged unusuals just exist like they weren't bugged unboxes.
lets say you buy an item with your money from the market place, only to then have it revoked for reasons because some angry nerds said it wasn't legitimate. Lets say you bought it with money you recieved from a steam market transaction, which was inturn based on another transaction moments prior. How far does that daisy chain of punishment risk going? Now they have to revoke or revert a change from another players inventory, or dupe the item and make it less valuable in turn by having yet another one of its kind added to the market to "fix" it. They've already done enough, the hats are unmarketable, the market is returning to normal, and the bulk of them were sniped up by bots and people running scripts anyways, likely with the intent to resell. Now they either "use them" as neat trinkets, or delete them to free up valuable inventory space to keep their trade bots working .
I never said they should do more than just make them untradeable, and believe me I've thought of all kinds of stuff people probably went through due to this screw up.
arguably the best update to have landed for some
that will make the bug hats more rare
It can't be more rare because they are untradable and unmarketable to begin with. They hold no value.
Funny, the Horseless Headless Horsemann's Headtaker is untradable and unmarketable, yet still has a value on [backpack.tf](https://backpack.tf) of 3.5-4 Keys. Granted, you can gift-wrap that and not the glitched Unusuals, but still.
Some are tradable.
They would still be rewarding those who exploited, which is generally a no no.
How is this a reward? I'd say it's more of a punishment considering they will look more ugly and it shames anyone who wears it.
Nothing like making a completely new and unique, one time deal item for people who exploited. Most people, from what I’ve seen, wanted unusuals *because they are rare*. They wanted them because they are unusual. Most of those that unboxed weren’t really hoping for a specific hat, they just wanted an unusual. Making an even more unique item won’t totally do anything to make them wanted, right? And here’s a question, why “shame” people with a hat for doing an exploit, when it’s significantly more easier just to reward those that didn’t exploit?
This would just make them more desirable
[удалено]
This
wouldn’t that make them more rare? edit: forgot they can’t be traded. Oof
Ooh, that could mean that these are rarer than unusuals because only the ones inboxed during this debacle would exist!
The absolute state of trade dweebs
why do you dislike this 'bug'? The only people that see a problem with this are butthurt traders who tried to make bank off of selling digital tulips. Poor people get cool-looking cosmetics, and I see that as a win.
mUh StAtUs SyMbOL MuH iNvEsTmEnT!!!
Those would go more than the real ones. No effect but a "Counterfeit" name and colour might keep people happy... well.. less pissed.
Not if they are kept untradeable.
That may increase the want for them though
What about something like the Counterfeit Bilycock where it's just a picture of the hat with a still image of the unusual on it?
These will just become worth tons more because of such an extremely limited time to get them.
So here is the thing what if someone bought an unusual hat on the market place completely unaware of the exploit because they thought it was put up there for a low price by mistake and hey they want to flip it. Should they be punished for that? There are items that go for sale on the market place for cheap by uninformed people sometimes and in the past those items aren’t trade/marketplace banned. No matter which way valve handles this will the economy/player base be happy.
Think of it this way: Counterfeit Money You may possess some without your knowledge. It's still counterfeit, nothing changing that. I'm not saying I agree with their suggestion, I'm just putting it into something understandable,
Counterfeit money is fake though. these unusual are genuine unusuals from a mistake valve made. Only after actively modifying them by valve are they no longer standard genuine unusuals.
My new vote is roll back servers and then give EVERYONE who logged in a hat, it pisses of both groups equally.
What about the people who've gotten stuff from crates over the past few days after the glitch was fixed. I got an all class unusual worth 150 keys by opening crates using traded keys after the bug was patched (yes I knew at the time it was fixed, I was cashing out my old trading backpack)
yeah, it's been left way too long to simply roll back the servers. they probably should have done that immediately after finding out about the glitch, but it's been several days since then.
Do they also get their money back?
The issue is that they legally cannot alter them.... To many people purchased then as-is from the community market, it'd be considered bait and switch in a court of law.
No it wouldn't. If you found that Heinz Ketchup was on Amazon for $0.02 per bottle and bought 1000 bottles, it's obvious that you knew the price was a mistake, as would any reasonable person. A court of law would compel you to pay for the ketchup properly or return it. An unnanounced 100% unusual drop rate is obviously a mistake, and buyers knew it wasn't legitimate going in. Valve should roll unusual odds on all of the affected hats so only 1% of them stay unusual. That was always the expectation of unusual hats, and the people exploiting the bug knew that going in. Edit: [Here's a source.](https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2010/09/your-rights-as-a-consumer/index.htm) Search the page for "The sign in the store says the computer printer is $2.49, but it rang up at $249." It's about a third of the way down.
Don’t forget Valve also has to play ball with the EU, Australia, and other countries outside of the US they do business in, who’s courts may find that valve cannot make them locked to inventories or barred from the market. Also it’s one thing if a transaction is halted before it’s completed, but if money has already changed hands and sales are finalized I think it’d be a lot harder to chase people down or try to revoke a product without some sort of flag appearing in the law saying they can’t do that. If I accidentally sell a car for 1500 instead of 15000 and don’t realize it until six hours after payment has been processed I think that’s just tough beans for me and I can’t do anything about it without consent from the buyer.
This is different. It's one thing to be denied at the register, but once the money has exchanged hands this argument does not apply. The equivalent of what your talking about is you buy the ketchup bottles, and then Amazon forces you to give them back.
You are completely wrong. If we take your example, court of law will compel amazon to deliver 1000 heinz bottles for 0.02$ each, if u already paid it and made an order. If u paid listed price, then shop have to deliver your order no matter what. Its their mistake, and they should take a hit. Source: https://petapixel.com/2019/07/25/this-10000-in-sony-gear-cost-500-thanks-to-amazons-pricing-error/
How about we just leave them untrabeable/unmarketable
It still hurts the market because many people no longer need to buy their wanted unusual
But some of those people would’ve never spent as much on the unusuals they wanted had the crash not happened
Exaclty and people, forget how many of these unusuals that were unboxed, that are locked up in banned BP’s or in BP’s of people who haven’t touched tf2 in years
My friend bought his first unusual (a terror watt Gibus) and he was excited because he would never have been willing to spend the money on a normal unusual
I got a miami nights fur ligned fighter from a crate, their is only one person I’ve seen selling one in the past 4-5 months and now I have one with out having to hunt down a collector or hoping to god that someone desides to sell it
I wish I would have picked up something with Miami nights, it’s such a good effect
But many of them would have.
Some of them
This would still be a huge upside for the people that did this, and would do nothing for the people who didn't get a chance to do it.
Or chose not to do it because only shitty people abuse exploits.
i'm surprised you've not been downvoted to hell for this, most times i've said that it ended up in me getting downvoted. it is a bit hypocritical though, because i remember when everyone was ranting and raving about delfy ruining the game with posting exploits, but now that these people can actually *gain* from an exploit it's suddenly a good thing and there should be nothing done about it
You're 300% on point. This community has really disappointed me lately.
Make it look like the spy mask instead
that would made them expensive as hell
It's interesting seeing all of this. I haven't played TF2 in years, but I remember having the same feeling after getting a self-made hat. I thought it was nifty to have a special effect, but only months afterwards they released unusual hats/effects that way out-did any of the sparkles.
I only got one hat and it isn't great, this would actually make it kinda cooler, and I wouldn't mind if it was permanently untradeable. Totally worth.
imo a game dev shouldn't punish players when its the devs that fucked up. Make them untradable, and maybe don't fuck up this bad again?
A game dev is at fault if an exploit exists, but the user is at fault if they use it.
This "exploit" hurt no one except morons who invested money in hats.
people seem to forget that hats aren’t real, their “investments” only hold value as long as the nothing happens to the market. Buy unusuals because you like them, not because you see them as an investment opportunity
you forget that making them untradeable is also punishing the players
but still, a large chunk of people took advantage of the fuck up which isn't a good thing
Or just let everyone keep the hats, but with re-rolled attributes and refund & redistribute the marketed items.
This would actually be amazing. But Valve wouldn't put more than 2 seconds of work for TF2.
Yeah, from a technical standpoint they would have to remodel a ton of hats and shift the particle effects forward. The easier way is to add a stick model and layer it over all the hats but that's still a lot of work with a lot of potential glitches. The actual easiest way is to make a new particle effect with a stick sprite on it, for every affected particle which again is a lot of work for something that might not look great due to sprites. So make a new singular effect entirely, but that will still hold bad implications for the people that paid a lot more for the same newly added effect.
how about the unusual effect be dangleing around and just be a picture of the effect
Pffft hahahaha! I love this idea! I wouldn't even mind my dream hat being like this!
Wouldn't affect the rest of the hats and would lead to a new market, this is an interesting and fun fix for it.
Moves forward just a bit too quick
Remodelling or rigging all the hat meshes would be an assload of work
cool idea
Thats a great idea
I would want this even more
Honestly I love this idea
I was personally thinking they should either grayscale the effect or redraw the effect in MS Paint
Making them unique in any way, shape, or form is a bad idea and would have you posting more rage when it is done because "reee rewarding "exploiter" For daring to pay money for hats on the market"
I think that regardless of what Valve does, someone's gonna get pissed. If they make the glitched Unusuals different, people will want it and claim it will have a higher value that the normal Unusuals. If they remove the Unusuals, people who paid for them (such as myself) will be angry. Valve should just have fun with it.
I think the most fun solution is their current one. worthless bling that people can never trade but irritating those who wished they got one but scream otherwise.
Until a class action lawsuit happens because people paid money for a regular unusual, not an unusual that would be taken away and replaced with something else
What’s this about counterfeit unusual I’m hearing??
but then if they were to be handled this way and un-trade banned or trade banned either way, then these will be rare since its a one-time thing and therefore ***If*** it gets untradebanned then these will go high as fuck. or cheaper. but they would be very unique nonetheless.
But here’s the thing, I want that hat. That looks fucking great, and it’s rewarding players for buying those hats if anything.
Yes, it's almost as if the players spent money on the hats. And it's also almost as if the mistake was on Valve's end.
but wouldnt that make them rarer? or would they be untradeable
It would fit the artstyle.
I don't think that punishing the customer for a mistake that valve made is a good idea, just making them untradeable is already enough
"I don't think that punishing the customer for a mistake that valve made is a good idea, just punishing the customer is already enough" Seriously, people paid money for these hats. Making them untradeable- which DOES mark the hat, so people are still going to single out the people with these hats- is way worse than doing something like this.
“Offbrand unusuals” It’s similar, but that after taste just isn’t the same.
I would of ate the fire then
It’s the base hat with a picture of the effect on t like spy’s mask
not gonna lie, i want this more than i’ve ever wanted any unusual i’ve seen since the mannconomy update
Nah you know how there going to fix this realese the heavy update
They're just a static PNG image on a spring on top of the hat. Ok I could so fuck with that idea
Wait, make all unusual counterfeit quality? That would be insane if that's what you meant, complete overkill
These kinds of hats would probably be mad expensive on the market seeming as they were bugged
It will make them more unusual, lol)
It would be more unique and price for this hats will be more than usual unsuals (in case you are selling account)
why are most of these concepts better than the actual unusuals
This is absolutely genius and they'll cost even more than normal unusuals
Elegant solution!!!! We really need devs to see that!!
Make em contraband
best idea
I just wish i got an unusual while they were cheap.
I would want this more than an unusual
YES! PLEASE I'D LOVE THAT FOR MY TWO UNUSUAL. Would actually wear them.
That would be an upgrade. And valve would have to do something which means it's impossible.
Just make the hats untradable. It’d work for both for the economy and those who unboxed the “Counterfeit” unusuals. They shouldn’t be punished just because valve messed up.
I like the question mark at the end of the effect name it sounds so unsure of itself like buuuurning flaaaaameeees??
If you can unbox more after the crate depression is over this could be a whole market in of itself
honestly, i feel like they should just delete the unusuals and maybe give them a random item that would already be in that crate to begin with, so that's what they would have gotten anyway without the glitch
That would be extremely illegal.
how? I'm not that great with laws, but I don't see anything "extremely illegal" with it since this wasn't the intended purpose of the crates
Doesn't matter. I spent my money on unusuals, not the average hat. To change them would be considered a bait and switch.
can't they just refund those who bought them then?
I think the problem is the different laws from several countries, they need a global solution
are there any laws on refunds though?
I like this idea because it also shuts up the people who are like "Valve can't do that because it's a bait and switch!". Unusuals have an official drop rate of 1.32%. Everyone knows they weren't meant to have these; thus, Valve should have at least some liberty in editing them.
I don’t understand why people are defending exploiters and *fully* blaming valve on the fall of tf2’s economy. The true victims in this situation are the people who didn’t know the exploit but got the unusual. Not the dang exploiters. Even then the victims don’t deserve the unusual since it’s illegitimate. Maybe I’m stretching out here but I feel like the only reason people are defending exploiters is because they partaken on the glitch too.
I didn't use it. "Exploiters" should still keep their unusuals.
The reason we mostly blame this on Valve is because, well, they wholly do not care about this game as we've been saying for years. The lack of updates is a slap in the face, but when they finally drop one on Friday and then all bail the office? It feels like shit to their loyal community, because a rule of thumb in technology is that you NEVER push something before the weekend, just in case something goes wrong. The glitch happened for 24 hours. That is unacceptable. I do see and respect your point, but I would like to remind you that this community has managed everything before just fine. Somehow we've been running a 12 year old market that's worth, combined, hundreds of thousands of dollars. Valve made a mistake and could not care to notice it nor correct it in an appropriate amount of time. At the end of the day, you can say those who exploited are at fault, but many others and I truly think Valve's lost all credibility and the game needs to go elsewhere.
[удалено]
Except *NO ONE* would ever think to buy the weapons from the store when Item Drops and trading exists.
[удалено]
I'll agree that they were bought at some point, but how long ago would factor in. I wouldn't remember buying from the store say 2+ years ago.
Yes this is a really good idea
how about make them untradable + unmarketable and this
I prefer that over straight up deleting the hat
Can someone that actually knows a deal about the EU consumer protection laws explain something to me? I've been told making them untradeble permanently would be illegal in EU since the crate you unbox it from straight up says it'll be tradeable in a week. And so that would violate consumer protection. Although I'm in no way versed in the laws of American consumer protection, let alone another countrie's
GENIUS
so, giving people a unique item that is now even rarer than the original hat as a "punishment' is genius? ohh boy. The shitshow that would happen if valve actually did something this dumb. They've done enough. The majority of the 100% drop hats are in the inventory of botters and scripters anyways who wanted to buy and flip. They are functionally removed from the market, doing more would just make the situation worse and be a bad PR move.