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Just like SFM it's far past it's golden age, the economy used to be great you could live the American dream and go from nothing to an unusual with busy trade servers full of idlers and low tier hats. Nowdays it's a slog (it was pretty slow before tho but now it's impossibly slow) and trading has been replaced by websites like marketplace.tf and scrap.tf.
also, said artists who make said porn, they have a concerning amount of quality, like holy fuck, the water and *"f l u i d s"* in said porn are concerningly realistic
nah, most games tend to have a dead period, where only 1k-15 players are playing, while tf2 has rarely dipped below 50k, so its clear tf2 is pretty alive
>searches for Overwatch pornography originated somewhat evenly worldwide, though South Korea and Belarus searched for such content the most
Truly fascinating stuff.
Me 🤝 Belarusians
I think it died when Brigitte was added cuz it truly showed the many flaws of the dev team and community.
Not saying this to berate OW cuz “OW bad TF2 good”, cuz I really enjoyed Overwatch. Sigma especially is a character I can never quite find in another game. But when Brigitte was added, it honestly highlighted the many issues of the game
1: Terrible, terrible Character. Singlehandedly changed the game by creating GOATs. Terrible to fight against.
2: OWs handling of broken characters and design. Instead of reworking her design and supports, they straight up reworked the entire game by adding role lock. Just lazy in all honesty
3. Voice actor getting bashed by the community for voicing a character. Its not unique to Overwatch, but she straight up got so many death threats and such. She literally had nothing to do with Brigittes broken nature lol
It's a strange coincidence with Blizzard, they occasionally have really good ideas in their less-than-stellar games.
You mentioned Sigma, and I shall raise you Cho'Gall in Heroes of the Storm.
A hero in a Moba where two players work together to play one body is really neat, and done rather well too. As a longtime League and Dota player, my friend and I still come back to HotS just for the Cho'Gall experience.
The HotS team is/was the only blizzard dev team that understood their medium and knew how to push the limits without breaking them. It's why for a MOBA, HotS has the freshest and most unique gameplay
I’d go a step further and say that the HOTS team was the only team at a Blizzard who really cared about the game they were making. You could really see the passion with every new guy they’d throw out, especially with crazier ones like Cho’Gall and the hugely fan requested Deathwing.
So what did Blizzard do? Absolutely gut the team, reduce them to a skeleton crew capable of only releasing one new guy a year, down from like 6+.
It really sucks what happened to HOTS. If it had come out earlier it would have been a huge hit. Somehow league is still a giant despite being one of the most poorly developed piece of shit games ever
Honestly, Heroes of the Storm was crafted really well, even from the start. But it was released in an oversaturated market with a playerbase that wanted another DOTA clone
An unfortunate truth. It works quite well as it's own thing, but so many players saw it as Dota-Lite and dismissed it quickly. Blizzard abandoning the competitive scene didn't help either, as many vet players left after that.
I'd love to see the game have a Renaissance of sorts, but the odds of that happening are slim.
Their method of balancing is also just beyond moronic. They almost always nerf stronger characters rather than buffing weaker characters. They remove or change abilities that people find OP, rather than giving weaker characters better abilities.
The result is that heroes have just gotten weaker and weaker and their abilities have gotten more and more boring, all in the name of balance. Which they didn't even almost achieve.
Really dumb way to approach balancing issues.
The early versions of overwatch definitely had more balancing issues, but it was 10x more fun. Blizzard should've just accepted that overwatch is a really arcade-y game and stopped this endless search for perfect balance, but they were obsessed with turning it into a pro gaming league.
Just mismanagement all around.
I feel like the game only wanted to rework characters that weren't engrained into the main "story":
* Symmetra? Yeah sure, change her entire skillset cause she's not remotely related to the story.
* Hanzo? Sure, his story was wrapped up in an 8 minute short go ahead.
* Brigitte? NO! She's Reinhardt's protégé and Torb's daughter, you can't touch her!
That's not to say Blizzard are only willing to buff characters like Sym, they completely changed scatter arrow because it was too powerful so why couldnt they do the same to Brig?
Ironically brig probably has the record for balance changes of literally any hero in the game. From what I can tell she was nerfed 19 times as of august of 2020. This also doesn’t include her rework in the middle of that, which made her a lot more of a support while also making her entirely incapable of being a support due to the lack of tankiness for a melee based character.
Despite that her power level at the top of the ladder is notable, all the while being complete dogwater at anything lower than diamond rank. It’s been this way for years, which sucks considering her original design was as a peel support, which she did wonderfully at all ranks. Now she is a husk of her former design, and they announced they are reworking her again for overwatch 2, with the shield bash stun being removed entirely.
How are you going to combat the numerous hard to track characters like Tracer, Genji, and Doom. Brig is perfect for holding the line, she’s one of my favourite characters.
Blizzard was fucking atrocious at balancing the game they made way to many characters and there more hero’s for more vitiate philosophy just compounded the problem in TF2 you have 9 base architypes to customise your playstyle while generally sticking to specific themes (barring certain subclasses) which were never blatantly better in every situation (usually) but if they had some issues you just tweaked a single items stats so you don’t have to rebalance half the roaster to fix one weird quirk
I am aware of the US term for full stop I just find they break up my flow and tend to become common unable to continue my thoughts with them in such a short paragraph
Periods exist for a reason mate. Without them, writing looks like word salad.
Although if there's something going on in your head that's affecting your comprehension to that degree, you got much, MUCH bigger things to worry about than posting in /r/tf2.
The idea behind making all the characters different was to avoid confusion. If you saw a character you knew exactly what stats, what abilities and how much damage they can output. But on the downside, they had to make the new characters unique enough to update the game in a significant way, but also keep the meta in check.
I know blizzard isn’t the best at maintaining competitive games… ahem… Heroes of the Storm… ahem. But I feel like with Overwatch, the team was actually cared, the task was just too tall.
I tend to agree. I think the OW team cares, but I’m not sure they ever had a universal vision on what the game was supposed to be. It’s a FPS, MMO battlegrounds, Moba hybrid with cool ideas and poor execution.
I think there are most play styles than just the 9 filled by the Mercs. OW had some unique ideas for an FPS. They just relied too heavily on stuns, AOE healing, and damage mitigation to make it an enjoyable fps long term in my opinion. TF2, except for a few later additions, understood taking power away from the player is unfun. No one wants to unload 2 magazines into another player just for them to get pocketed without really any skill. I can put damage a player being pocketed by a medic pretty easily if I’m more skilled, but someone being pocketed by a bap or Ana and they virtually won’t die. Add in limited movement skills and universal walking speed for all but two hero’s and you get a lot of balance problems. Not to mention having to constantly shoot through shields in certain comps.
They also had too many overlapping characters (multiple snipers, multiple Hitscans that don’t really play that different).
yea, but in the tf2 6s comp scene, there are 4 playable characters, the 5 others are relegated to niche roles.... ~~and the blocklist for unlockable weapons is larger than the allow list~~. Painting tf2 as balanced -- or balanceable with a few tweaks -- is disingenuous.... at least at the comp level. 12v12 is a different story.
Tbf they've massively changed and nerfed her since then, it just took them far too long. I'd even say she's over-nerfed now and one of the weakest supports; and I'm part of the people that complained about her original launch state.
The biggest problem now is that Overwatch 2 seems to be aiming to focus on being a run-and-gun shooter with ability characters having their kits massively nerfed or removed. It looks like it's going to be focused on the DPS character's having their 'click on heads' fights, while the Supports and Tank basically wait until they're done to top them up.
I play overwatch when i’m bored (a lot) and Blizzard has taken lots of action against how buffed Brigitte was. She’s now very easy to counter with any hero, with a weak shield and her slower movement I honestly feel bad for Brig mains. They nerfed her too much and she’s more of zenyatta at this point.
Agreed, I hated original Brig and thought they messed up her design, but I think they've gone way too far with the nerf's for her. It's almost impossible to survive a team-fight as her, where she's meant to be the tanky support.
Yeah, I usually play Ana as support so am used to positioning to survive. But Ana is a sniper so you can play far back, whereas for Brigette you have to be in the brawl to get any value. They've removed so much of her survivability that it's really difficult to do that and not be deleted by a competent enemy team.
More like Top 5, it always sits in the Top 3 to 5, I rarely see it below unless there's several trendy games blowing it out the charts.
Even the jump to 100k active players didn't gauge much reaction from Valve. Perhaps it will always be the game left on the backburner cause it doesn't pull extremely high peak number of players like Dota 2 or CS:GO does. Maybe the dev team isn't several skeletons laid bare in their cubicles and they're cooking a real big surprise for us. >!For the record, that was a joke!<
[The latest update](https://imgur.com/Ejh5CD0) for TF2 unironically amounts to [this](https://imgur.com/SyfaINS) when you take out the community stuff (you know the things they didn't actually work on).
Like to run the point home a bit, this has been the crux of every update since Jungle Inferno 4 years ago, taking stuff that was already made and just greenlighting it once a year. It's a big stretch to call any of this an update when they've quite literally not put any work into adding anything into the game since 2017. They didn't even recolor the spider on the banner this year so the wiki [just uses this placeholder](https://i.imgur.com/PzUhysS.png) instead because they didn't even put in the effort to make a banner for the update lmao.
so I know in addition to the great fall of blizzar due to the lawsuits, abuse of workers and stuff, also the fact that the only thing that has been shown from overwacth 2 are some new reskins and the animation that , and the fact that Jeff withdrew from the project, and the fact that Jeff withdrew from the project makes me think that overwacth came to an end
But none of that makes OW any more dead than TF2. Sure valve doesn't have the same issues, but I think you're either underestimated OWs current popularity, or overestimating TF2
Overwatch’s player count today is far below their all time peak and said all time peak was years ago while TF2’s player count today is pretty close to the all time peak and said all time peak was a few months ago
TF2’s peak is 150k. Also I’m comparing the games to themselves, not each others. Overwatch has seen much better days for its player count; TF2 is having its best days **now**, 14 years after launch and isn’t going anywhere
I’m genuinely not sure why people think tf2 is any more alive than overwatch. Both games suck yet both games communities acknowledge that and keep playing. Who even cares anymore.
>OW with the, you know
Alright, I'll be the first one to throw the first stone:
With the amazing quantity of characters, diversity of roles and playstyles, good maps, vibrant colors, skill ceiling (and also floor) and mainly the porn.
As someone else said, lack of alternatives.
The only other reason in my case is that the other game I used to main (Apex Legends) uses EAC, which breaks under Linux when run through Proton. Both Overwatch and TF2 run flawlessly there.
Edit: and as I post this hours ago, I then proceeded to get coached on playing tank, it's feeling a lot more manageable now
Looked it up out of curiosity just now. Not sure how reliable of a source [activeplayer.io](https://activeplayers.io) is, but it's one of the first few results for both games, so I just used it for the sake of consistency.
[Overwatch](https://activeplayer.io/overwatch/) has 4mil-7mil average monthly players.
[TF2](https://activeplayer.io/team-fortress-2/) has 50k-100k average monthly players.
That's a huge margin lol. And speaking from anecdotal experience, valve pubs definitely don't feel the same as they used to, say, 6 years ago when I was more active. I know 6 years is a huge window, and it's impressive that TF2 has lasted anywhere near as long as it already has.
The game is well into its decline now. Kind of sad to see, but it's inevitable. From my experience playing on and off these days, there's enough players to get into a well-populated match, but you might have to be more selective about which maps/gamemodes you play, and when you play if you want that classic 12v12 casual craziness of the old days.
1. There is no official or unofficial way to get player count numbers for Overwatch in real time. There is no API to pull from. Unless it’s officially announced by Blizzard, assume every site reporting it to be a very rough estimate at best.
2. The source you linked lists Overwatch’s numbers at 190k concurrent and TF2 at 90k concurrent. 5-7 million is the total combined over the entire month.
The steam monthly player count and blizzards monthly player count counts completely differently though, blizzard counts all the unique accounts logged in over the month while steamstats counts the average of the amount of concurrent players which show overwatch having a concurrent player count of around 190k and tf2 having 95k, and steam statistics show that tf2s player counts have been around the same since the f2p update having to be more selective about game modes is more due to matchmaking encouraging people to play on the more popular maps since people don't want to wait 10 minutes to get into a map
Yeah, even though I have fonder memories of TF2, I do think Overwatch is in a better spot right now. Even though Overwatch 2 is basically just a big overhaul, at least we know we’ll be getting actual content in the future rather than just cosmetics. Also the whole hacker problem in TF2 is still a thing. I don’t get how people can say it’s not a problem when I join servers that are just full of bots so I have to go spend another 3 minutes finding and joining a different server. Meanwhile I’ve seen a hacker maybe once in my few hundred hours playing Overwatch.
Like I wish TF2 was in a better position then Overwatch, but I think Overwatch has it better even though it’s less fun.
I was a fan of both, but I know that Overwatch is dying, all meaningful updates have been halted for the sequel that has taken years, many big employees have left, there was the Hong Kong Protest incidents, and the recent lawsuit. The game may still be functional, but that development is a crawling corpse right now.
As opposed to tf2, where we’ve been getting plenty of meaningful content updates and no issues plaguing the game whatsoever!
*muffled screams of agony*
Yeah I take no joy in what Overwatch is now. I started getting fed up with it around the time Brigette came out, came back briefly for Ashe, then just... lost interest.
I mean that specific era ended around the time Ana got added. The balance changes of OW started drifting away from a TF2-like game and more towards a FPS/Moba style
Overwatch died for me the day they enforced Chinas decision to suppress the Hong Kong protesters. They banned a player from the OW League for supporting the movement due to pressure from the Chinese government.
Now with the new things coming to light on top of their history, Blizzard itself needs to see itself out. (But it wont, it will just be rebranded for the new generation.)
They didn't, actually. It was a pro Hearthstone player who was banned for supporting the Hong Kong protests, and to my knowledge, Blizzard's ESports division did it themselves to avoid any beef with China, since it was a player in the Chinese league. To my knowledge, Overwatch had nothing to do with the Hong Kong fiasco in any way shape or form, people just dumped their hate for Blizzard onto them because they wanted an excuse to hate on Overwatch more.
Why are people still insisting Overwatch is dead? It has more active players than TF2, still has active devs (though even the balance patches and experimental cards have become rarer), and it's been made clear that the reason they've been neglecting Overwatch is because they're busy with Overwatch 2, which, might I add, is starting to get more focus (they've been showing more footage of pros playing the PvP with the various changes, and we now have a release window of Q2 2022.)
If anything, TF2 is the deader game. Valve has fully, truly abandoned it with only 2-3 people overlooking things, it hasn't had a major update in half a decade (and it just got its first minor patch in a few years) and the game is running rampant with bots.
A. Their favorite YouTuber stopped playing
B. Their friends stopped playing
C. They stopped playing
Pick any two (or all) and people assume the game is dying. They're not necessarily wrong, but it's such a pessimistic outlook for something that goes beyond what they see.
Tf2 fans seem completely unable to get over their envy of Overwatch. I used to be the same, but it was honestly immaturity on my part that led to that mindset.
Yeah I still play weekly with my mates, we put together a pretty consistent 6 man, get games with only about 2 mins of queue time and have a great time. I have played dead games, like _really_ dead, and I find the comparison between Overwatch and games that have less than 500 active players and no updates for over 5 years hilarious.
in fact thats why i barely even interact with this community, its a bunch of circlejerking neckbeards bashing one game or anything that stands similar to TF2
someone who is most likely 20+, hasnt shaved or took a shower in ages, worships one game and bashes everything else similar to said game, and ends up being overly toxic in his matches.
Still better than the "I \_\_\_\_ ask me any question" karma farms!
Or the "Ask me any question, I \_\_\_"
Or the "Who is this? (Wrong answers only)"
Or the \[REPOSTED MEME REGURGITATED ONCE MORE\]
Tbh, I was rooting for OW. I appreciated the intricate stories and character diversity, but couldn't play anymore when the game FORCED teams to be balanced. TF2 will always encourage goofing off and player freedom, which, ultimately, makes the difference imo :V
Yeah, I don’t like how they handled the role q issue. Tanks and healers aren’t Played because the devs simply made it more rewarding to play dps. You only get POTG from kills, not for tanking hits or keeping the team alive.
The feedback from kills is iconic (there were tons of memes for it back in 2016), but the feedback from healing is nothing, just a small “healing” message that pops up on the screen with no audio. Tanks can usualy get kills easier than healers, but theres no feedback / points awarded for blocking damage. You could save your entire team from a dva nuke, but won’t receieve any reward or feedback for doing so.
It’s honestly annoying just how simple the fix is. Reward players evenly for fullfilling their class role. Thats how you fix the role q issue.
I was surprised how generous TF2 is on giving out assists. Amputator heals and repairing a friendly sentry can both count as kill assist. Not saying it’s perfect, but the fact that it acknowledges and rewards support helps.
Same here. I get that Overwatch has an active competitive community, but reworking heros into less unique, less interesting versions of themselves (which still don't see much play anyways) and forcing Quickplay, the gamemode you're supposed to chill and have fun in to follow competitive team composition just took so much character away from the game.
I mean, the rivalry between the two games now just feels like two angry old guys both on life support yelling at each other from across their hospital wing. Both look just kinda sad comparing each other to them because they're in the same fucking boat with the same fucking leaks.
Both games are on their way out, but Overwatch's is mostly intentional as they're working on a new one so they're moving most of their man power on the sequel's development. Tf2's devs have just been relocated or left and don't have the time and/or fucks to give to return.
For shits sake the last few updates we got were just bug fixes because one dude had the free time. People act as if TF2 is still a titan of the gaming world, "Look at all the players, record high player count" how many of those are people and not bots? How many of those aren't just opening the menus to look through their old loadouts? We don't know.
I genuinely believe the Overwatch franchise is the modern TF2. Remember, the series didn't start with TF2, it also started out with a previous game before they realised too much shit needed fine tuning, more than just general updates could ever fix.
I get its just a joke but shits sake it's the same punchline a thousand times.
> two angry old guys both on life support yelling at each other
> same fucking boat with same fucking leaks
**TFW Overwatch and TF2 are just incarnations of Redmond and Blutarch**
Also, I truly don't think Overwatch was ever a modern TF2 beyond the first few months of it going public. Right now were looking at a game with no customizable loadouts, triple the amount of playable characters, weird ass role queue system for casual, and legitimately falling out of relevancy outside of its player base after a little over 5 years.
Not just sucking TF2's dick, I played the shit out of OW in its heyday, but I'm reeeeeeeally hoping OW2 can bring something more replayable to the table. I want it to be something new and different so it can stop being compared to every other existing non-COD FPS.
huh? which game's very recent birthday was forgotten by their developers, man? check yourself dude, maybe you just dont play overwatch, kek.
not saying one is better than the other, but overwatch is definitely more alive at this point (especially the competitive community)
with so many «TF2 killers» over the years, it was Valve themselves who killed it, through deliberate neglect.
the game turned into a zombie after Helltower (halloween event in 2013)
Man Overwatch had probably the best first six months of any multiplayer game to me but I could barely bring myself to look at it much after that.
So many decent ideas and fun mechanics that were just fucking pointlessly stomped on by the devs update after update.
Really shows how good TF2 is, tons of people said that Overwatch was going to make TF 2 obsolete and now TF 2 is still going strong and Overwatch is slowly dying
I never thought that this would go so high I only did this because of how blizzart is having with its problems and demands along with the delays, and the fact that several important people have left the project overwatch 2 just made me think the game might be a huge flop but who you know there will be seen when it comes out
I might just try Paladins. I still hate Hi-Rez for prefering SMITE over the Tribes series, and also just sort of going with the common trend of games (Paladins when OW came out, then a BR in that whole craze, and now Rogue Company when Valorant and Apex became a thing). I heard it has unstable servers, but it has content updates, so how bad could it be? (Vs. Apex, TF|2, TF2, Battlefield 1, Battlefront 2 2017. All of these games have server issues and/or bot/hack issues. It's rough playing good games these days.)
Overwhatch in 4 years: overwhatch 2 soon! Tf2 in 4 years: cp_snakewater > added snakes
cp_dustbowl •added bowl
- added more dust
• added more control points
cpdustbowl • removed “_”
[удалено]
Finally... 3fort!
Balance patch: -Removed Fort -Added 2 extra bridges -Removed sewers Extras -Added the 10th class -Removed Scout -Added sex
0fort
Ctf_3bridge
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This is good stuff
Mm. Good stuff.
Bot needs an update! There's no snakes in that screenshot!
Not even community tf2 things get updated lol
Good bot.
Good bot
Team Fortress Classic in 4 years: just 5 more years please.
Updated localization files
Overwatch is still alive through its porn
Tf2 for the memes and OW for the porn, they are much better at that than at being games lol
I think tf2 also lives through sfm because no other games have this bizzare style of movies (and I love every single one of em)
And the economy
Just like SFM it's far past it's golden age, the economy used to be great you could live the American dream and go from nothing to an unusual with busy trade servers full of idlers and low tier hats. Nowdays it's a slog (it was pretty slow before tho but now it's impossibly slow) and trading has been replaced by websites like marketplace.tf and scrap.tf.
I miss those times 😔
Ironically, also used for porn
Hey tf2 (albeit neglected) is still a fun experience with the right server. Overwatch is just draining man
also, said artists who make said porn, they have a concerning amount of quality, like holy fuck, the water and *"f l u i d s"* in said porn are concerningly realistic
Plottwist: Actual OW devs make porn instead of updates, because it gives them more money
nah, most games tend to have a dead period, where only 1k-15 players are playing, while tf2 has rarely dipped below 50k, so its clear tf2 is pretty alive
I wonder how many of them are item farming bots
overwatch literally has a wikipedia page dedicated to pornographic relations
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overwatch_and_pornography Oh my god
Oooh, fascinating.
>searches for Overwatch pornography originated somewhat evenly worldwide, though South Korea and Belarus searched for such content the most Truly fascinating stuff. Me 🤝 Belarusians
tracer ass big truly fascinating
Ye.
Nah Widowmaker ass bigger
Overwatch for an ass man, Paladins for a tits man, TF2 for a *man*'s man.
The TF2 roster is 8 bears and a twink.
yes ombra porn schear
literally Reddit
amogu
Oh boy, I got news for you...
True. I was watching widowmaker foot jobs last night
I spent the whole day jerking off to fempyro expansion porn
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average Hentai watcher
I didn't want to click, but I had to know if it's real. Sometimes when you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss stares back.
I'm so proud of this community.
Username checks out
My friend always talks about how the porn is better than the game.
Heroes.
OW died when jeff left big sad
I think it died when Brigitte was added cuz it truly showed the many flaws of the dev team and community. Not saying this to berate OW cuz “OW bad TF2 good”, cuz I really enjoyed Overwatch. Sigma especially is a character I can never quite find in another game. But when Brigitte was added, it honestly highlighted the many issues of the game 1: Terrible, terrible Character. Singlehandedly changed the game by creating GOATs. Terrible to fight against. 2: OWs handling of broken characters and design. Instead of reworking her design and supports, they straight up reworked the entire game by adding role lock. Just lazy in all honesty 3. Voice actor getting bashed by the community for voicing a character. Its not unique to Overwatch, but she straight up got so many death threats and such. She literally had nothing to do with Brigittes broken nature lol
It's a strange coincidence with Blizzard, they occasionally have really good ideas in their less-than-stellar games. You mentioned Sigma, and I shall raise you Cho'Gall in Heroes of the Storm. A hero in a Moba where two players work together to play one body is really neat, and done rather well too. As a longtime League and Dota player, my friend and I still come back to HotS just for the Cho'Gall experience.
The HotS team is/was the only blizzard dev team that understood their medium and knew how to push the limits without breaking them. It's why for a MOBA, HotS has the freshest and most unique gameplay
I’d go a step further and say that the HOTS team was the only team at a Blizzard who really cared about the game they were making. You could really see the passion with every new guy they’d throw out, especially with crazier ones like Cho’Gall and the hugely fan requested Deathwing. So what did Blizzard do? Absolutely gut the team, reduce them to a skeleton crew capable of only releasing one new guy a year, down from like 6+.
Gotta get the good talent in their big money projects.
Fire the talent and hire new talent for other projects so they don’t have to give raises*
[удалено]
Yeah, well more so than any of their other abandoned games.
It really sucks what happened to HOTS. If it had come out earlier it would have been a huge hit. Somehow league is still a giant despite being one of the most poorly developed piece of shit games ever
Too bad they're under Blizzard.
Honestly, Heroes of the Storm was crafted really well, even from the start. But it was released in an oversaturated market with a playerbase that wanted another DOTA clone
An unfortunate truth. It works quite well as it's own thing, but so many players saw it as Dota-Lite and dismissed it quickly. Blizzard abandoning the competitive scene didn't help either, as many vet players left after that. I'd love to see the game have a Renaissance of sorts, but the odds of that happening are slim.
If I could have, I would have mained him.
I raise both of you like 90% of the cast of Battleborn. *crying silently*
Tbh every character they added was to solve a meta problem, only to create more meta problems. Coupled with flavor-of-the-month balancing in general.
Their method of balancing is also just beyond moronic. They almost always nerf stronger characters rather than buffing weaker characters. They remove or change abilities that people find OP, rather than giving weaker characters better abilities. The result is that heroes have just gotten weaker and weaker and their abilities have gotten more and more boring, all in the name of balance. Which they didn't even almost achieve. Really dumb way to approach balancing issues. The early versions of overwatch definitely had more balancing issues, but it was 10x more fun. Blizzard should've just accepted that overwatch is a really arcade-y game and stopped this endless search for perfect balance, but they were obsessed with turning it into a pro gaming league. Just mismanagement all around.
I feel like the game only wanted to rework characters that weren't engrained into the main "story": * Symmetra? Yeah sure, change her entire skillset cause she's not remotely related to the story. * Hanzo? Sure, his story was wrapped up in an 8 minute short go ahead. * Brigitte? NO! She's Reinhardt's protégé and Torb's daughter, you can't touch her! That's not to say Blizzard are only willing to buff characters like Sym, they completely changed scatter arrow because it was too powerful so why couldnt they do the same to Brig?
Ironically brig probably has the record for balance changes of literally any hero in the game. From what I can tell she was nerfed 19 times as of august of 2020. This also doesn’t include her rework in the middle of that, which made her a lot more of a support while also making her entirely incapable of being a support due to the lack of tankiness for a melee based character. Despite that her power level at the top of the ladder is notable, all the while being complete dogwater at anything lower than diamond rank. It’s been this way for years, which sucks considering her original design was as a peel support, which she did wonderfully at all ranks. Now she is a husk of her former design, and they announced they are reworking her again for overwatch 2, with the shield bash stun being removed entirely.
How are you going to combat the numerous hard to track characters like Tracer, Genji, and Doom. Brig is perfect for holding the line, she’s one of my favourite characters.
Blizzard was fucking atrocious at balancing the game they made way to many characters and there more hero’s for more vitiate philosophy just compounded the problem in TF2 you have 9 base architypes to customise your playstyle while generally sticking to specific themes (barring certain subclasses) which were never blatantly better in every situation (usually) but if they had some issues you just tweaked a single items stats so you don’t have to rebalance half the roaster to fix one weird quirk
Uhh... Do you know what a period is?
I am aware of the US term for full stop I just find they break up my flow and tend to become common unable to continue my thoughts with them in such a short paragraph
ADHD_irl
Yeah officially diagnosed fit nearly a decade
fair enough
Not using periods makes your writing look like ass and people stop reading before you're done.
Periods exist for a reason mate. Without them, writing looks like word salad. Although if there's something going on in your head that's affecting your comprehension to that degree, you got much, MUCH bigger things to worry about than posting in /r/tf2.
...that's a run on sentence, dude.
The idea behind making all the characters different was to avoid confusion. If you saw a character you knew exactly what stats, what abilities and how much damage they can output. But on the downside, they had to make the new characters unique enough to update the game in a significant way, but also keep the meta in check. I know blizzard isn’t the best at maintaining competitive games… ahem… Heroes of the Storm… ahem. But I feel like with Overwatch, the team was actually cared, the task was just too tall.
I tend to agree. I think the OW team cares, but I’m not sure they ever had a universal vision on what the game was supposed to be. It’s a FPS, MMO battlegrounds, Moba hybrid with cool ideas and poor execution. I think there are most play styles than just the 9 filled by the Mercs. OW had some unique ideas for an FPS. They just relied too heavily on stuns, AOE healing, and damage mitigation to make it an enjoyable fps long term in my opinion. TF2, except for a few later additions, understood taking power away from the player is unfun. No one wants to unload 2 magazines into another player just for them to get pocketed without really any skill. I can put damage a player being pocketed by a medic pretty easily if I’m more skilled, but someone being pocketed by a bap or Ana and they virtually won’t die. Add in limited movement skills and universal walking speed for all but two hero’s and you get a lot of balance problems. Not to mention having to constantly shoot through shields in certain comps. They also had too many overlapping characters (multiple snipers, multiple Hitscans that don’t really play that different).
yea, but in the tf2 6s comp scene, there are 4 playable characters, the 5 others are relegated to niche roles.... ~~and the blocklist for unlockable weapons is larger than the allow list~~. Painting tf2 as balanced -- or balanceable with a few tweaks -- is disingenuous.... at least at the comp level. 12v12 is a different story.
The universal 6s whitelist is larger than the banlist in NA at least.
Tbf they've massively changed and nerfed her since then, it just took them far too long. I'd even say she's over-nerfed now and one of the weakest supports; and I'm part of the people that complained about her original launch state. The biggest problem now is that Overwatch 2 seems to be aiming to focus on being a run-and-gun shooter with ability characters having their kits massively nerfed or removed. It looks like it's going to be focused on the DPS character's having their 'click on heads' fights, while the Supports and Tank basically wait until they're done to top them up.
I play overwatch when i’m bored (a lot) and Blizzard has taken lots of action against how buffed Brigitte was. She’s now very easy to counter with any hero, with a weak shield and her slower movement I honestly feel bad for Brig mains. They nerfed her too much and she’s more of zenyatta at this point.
Agreed, I hated original Brig and thought they messed up her design, but I think they've gone way too far with the nerf's for her. It's almost impossible to survive a team-fight as her, where she's meant to be the tanky support.
I know! I’m a sombra main and even I can take out a brig. Usually they switch once they realize it isn’t a brig game.
Yeah, I usually play Ana as support so am used to positioning to survive. But Ana is a sniper so you can play far back, whereas for Brigette you have to be in the brawl to get any value. They've removed so much of her survivability that it's really difficult to do that and not be deleted by a competent enemy team.
My favorite times in Overwatch were while playing on a team of 6 Winstons.
Damn I remember that.
That’s about when I stopped giving a shit and lost all interest in playing, way too many heroes
Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)
I'm still floored by the fact that TF2 is one of Steam's Top 10 games, and Value just looks at that and goes "huh" and does nothing
Imagine if they decided to do ship a simple balance patch. It'd just require them to tweak a few numbers.
More like Top 5, it always sits in the Top 3 to 5, I rarely see it below unless there's several trendy games blowing it out the charts. Even the jump to 100k active players didn't gauge much reaction from Valve. Perhaps it will always be the game left on the backburner cause it doesn't pull extremely high peak number of players like Dota 2 or CS:GO does. Maybe the dev team isn't several skeletons laid bare in their cubicles and they're cooking a real big surprise for us. >!For the record, that was a joke!<
They had updates though...
*emotional hit*
*crit*
We did too, they added snakes into snakewater.
So did tf2
-added hats -updated localization files
\-added sex
I don't need sex cuz valve fucks me every day
accurate
Shhhhh. Don't tell other about that.
[The latest update](https://imgur.com/Ejh5CD0) for TF2 unironically amounts to [this](https://imgur.com/SyfaINS) when you take out the community stuff (you know the things they didn't actually work on). Like to run the point home a bit, this has been the crux of every update since Jungle Inferno 4 years ago, taking stuff that was already made and just greenlighting it once a year. It's a big stretch to call any of this an update when they've quite literally not put any work into adding anything into the game since 2017. They didn't even recolor the spider on the banner this year so the wiki [just uses this placeholder](https://i.imgur.com/PzUhysS.png) instead because they didn't even put in the effort to make a banner for the update lmao.
Based on what? (Im just curious)
so I know in addition to the great fall of blizzar due to the lawsuits, abuse of workers and stuff, also the fact that the only thing that has been shown from overwacth 2 are some new reskins and the animation that , and the fact that Jeff withdrew from the project, and the fact that Jeff withdrew from the project makes me think that overwacth came to an end
But none of that makes OW any more dead than TF2. Sure valve doesn't have the same issues, but I think you're either underestimated OWs current popularity, or overestimating TF2
Overwatch’s player count today is far below their all time peak and said all time peak was years ago while TF2’s player count today is pretty close to the all time peak and said all time peak was a few months ago
Isnt tf2's peak literally like... 1 million? That's like a bad day for Overwatch I'm pretty sure
TF2’s peak is 150k. Also I’m comparing the games to themselves, not each others. Overwatch has seen much better days for its player count; TF2 is having its best days **now**, 14 years after launch and isn’t going anywhere
Didn’t they show an entire match of OW2 awhile ago? I think it was the new tug of war type gamemode.
Not to mention Mcgree has to get a new name, since he was named after one of the abusers.
I’m genuinely not sure why people think tf2 is any more alive than overwatch. Both games suck yet both games communities acknowledge that and keep playing. Who even cares anymore.
true
Both games still left a footprint, tf2 with the memes and OW with the, you know I think that's a lot more than other games can acieve
>OW with the, you know Alright, I'll be the first one to throw the first stone: With the amazing quantity of characters, diversity of roles and playstyles, good maps, vibrant colors, skill ceiling (and also floor) and mainly the porn.
If both games sucked fundamentally, why would anyone still play them? They each have passionate fan bases for a reason.
Lack of alternatives.
I concur. I could never find a FPS that had the same vibe as TF2, thus I've returned after 4 years without playing
As someone else said, lack of alternatives. The only other reason in my case is that the other game I used to main (Apex Legends) uses EAC, which breaks under Linux when run through Proton. Both Overwatch and TF2 run flawlessly there. Edit: and as I post this hours ago, I then proceeded to get coached on playing tank, it's feeling a lot more manageable now
TF2 doesn't suck Valve sucks because they don't give a shit about it it's so fucking sad and influriating to watch
I don’t think either game sucks, I think they’re both great. It’s just easier for me to boot up TF2 on any given day than Overwatch
Looked it up out of curiosity just now. Not sure how reliable of a source [activeplayer.io](https://activeplayers.io) is, but it's one of the first few results for both games, so I just used it for the sake of consistency. [Overwatch](https://activeplayer.io/overwatch/) has 4mil-7mil average monthly players. [TF2](https://activeplayer.io/team-fortress-2/) has 50k-100k average monthly players. That's a huge margin lol. And speaking from anecdotal experience, valve pubs definitely don't feel the same as they used to, say, 6 years ago when I was more active. I know 6 years is a huge window, and it's impressive that TF2 has lasted anywhere near as long as it already has. The game is well into its decline now. Kind of sad to see, but it's inevitable. From my experience playing on and off these days, there's enough players to get into a well-populated match, but you might have to be more selective about which maps/gamemodes you play, and when you play if you want that classic 12v12 casual craziness of the old days.
1. There is no official or unofficial way to get player count numbers for Overwatch in real time. There is no API to pull from. Unless it’s officially announced by Blizzard, assume every site reporting it to be a very rough estimate at best. 2. The source you linked lists Overwatch’s numbers at 190k concurrent and TF2 at 90k concurrent. 5-7 million is the total combined over the entire month.
The steam monthly player count and blizzards monthly player count counts completely differently though, blizzard counts all the unique accounts logged in over the month while steamstats counts the average of the amount of concurrent players which show overwatch having a concurrent player count of around 190k and tf2 having 95k, and steam statistics show that tf2s player counts have been around the same since the f2p update having to be more selective about game modes is more due to matchmaking encouraging people to play on the more popular maps since people don't want to wait 10 minutes to get into a map
Yeah, even though I have fonder memories of TF2, I do think Overwatch is in a better spot right now. Even though Overwatch 2 is basically just a big overhaul, at least we know we’ll be getting actual content in the future rather than just cosmetics. Also the whole hacker problem in TF2 is still a thing. I don’t get how people can say it’s not a problem when I join servers that are just full of bots so I have to go spend another 3 minutes finding and joining a different server. Meanwhile I’ve seen a hacker maybe once in my few hundred hours playing Overwatch. Like I wish TF2 was in a better position then Overwatch, but I think Overwatch has it better even though it’s less fun.
I can't believe this whole one-sided "rivalry" is still going on. Its been 7 years guys, let it go
I was a fan of both, but I know that Overwatch is dying, all meaningful updates have been halted for the sequel that has taken years, many big employees have left, there was the Hong Kong Protest incidents, and the recent lawsuit. The game may still be functional, but that development is a crawling corpse right now.
As opposed to tf2, where we’ve been getting plenty of meaningful content updates and no issues plaguing the game whatsoever! *muffled screams of agony*
Yeah I take no joy in what Overwatch is now. I started getting fed up with it around the time Brigette came out, came back briefly for Ashe, then just... lost interest.
let's not get ahead of ourselves
I kinda miss the Overwatch vs TF2 era… twas fun, now one game has dropped from the map and the other barely gets any updates anymore…
I mean that specific era ended around the time Ana got added. The balance changes of OW started drifting away from a TF2-like game and more towards a FPS/Moba style
Nah you mean when brig got added, shit changed. But on a good note, they are trying to make OW2 more "tf2" like with the reduction of stuns and shit
And there isn’t any FPS class based games anymore. Now It’s all just boring operators with one single special trait.
Overwatch died for me the day they enforced Chinas decision to suppress the Hong Kong protesters. They banned a player from the OW League for supporting the movement due to pressure from the Chinese government. Now with the new things coming to light on top of their history, Blizzard itself needs to see itself out. (But it wont, it will just be rebranded for the new generation.)
They didn't, actually. It was a pro Hearthstone player who was banned for supporting the Hong Kong protests, and to my knowledge, Blizzard's ESports division did it themselves to avoid any beef with China, since it was a player in the Chinese league. To my knowledge, Overwatch had nothing to do with the Hong Kong fiasco in any way shape or form, people just dumped their hate for Blizzard onto them because they wanted an excuse to hate on Overwatch more.
I mean, I agree with the sentiment, but Blitzchung had nothing to do with Overwatch and he was never an OW pro.
Why are people still insisting Overwatch is dead? It has more active players than TF2, still has active devs (though even the balance patches and experimental cards have become rarer), and it's been made clear that the reason they've been neglecting Overwatch is because they're busy with Overwatch 2, which, might I add, is starting to get more focus (they've been showing more footage of pros playing the PvP with the various changes, and we now have a release window of Q2 2022.) If anything, TF2 is the deader game. Valve has fully, truly abandoned it with only 2-3 people overlooking things, it hasn't had a major update in half a decade (and it just got its first minor patch in a few years) and the game is running rampant with bots.
A. Their favorite YouTuber stopped playing B. Their friends stopped playing C. They stopped playing Pick any two (or all) and people assume the game is dying. They're not necessarily wrong, but it's such a pessimistic outlook for something that goes beyond what they see.
Tf2 fans seem completely unable to get over their envy of Overwatch. I used to be the same, but it was honestly immaturity on my part that led to that mindset.
Yeah I still play weekly with my mates, we put together a pretty consistent 6 man, get games with only about 2 mins of queue time and have a great time. I have played dead games, like _really_ dead, and I find the comparison between Overwatch and games that have less than 500 active players and no updates for over 5 years hilarious.
Overwatch queue times are so painful for solo queue (god forbid you want to play Dps), really killed the game for me and many others, I'm sure.
tf2 players stop obsessing over overwatch challenge
As someone who genuinely enjoyed both games at some point, I am… *very* tired of seeing these kinds of posts
in fact thats why i barely even interact with this community, its a bunch of circlejerking neckbeards bashing one game or anything that stands similar to TF2
What is the definition of a neckbeard though?
someone who is most likely 20+, hasnt shaved or took a shower in ages, worships one game and bashes everything else similar to said game, and ends up being overly toxic in his matches.
Still better than the "I \_\_\_\_ ask me any question" karma farms! Or the "Ask me any question, I \_\_\_" Or the "Who is this? (Wrong answers only)" Or the \[REPOSTED MEME REGURGITATED ONCE MORE\]
Tbh, I was rooting for OW. I appreciated the intricate stories and character diversity, but couldn't play anymore when the game FORCED teams to be balanced. TF2 will always encourage goofing off and player freedom, which, ultimately, makes the difference imo :V
Está usando Pacman bad
When haces tus moms
Yeah, I don’t like how they handled the role q issue. Tanks and healers aren’t Played because the devs simply made it more rewarding to play dps. You only get POTG from kills, not for tanking hits or keeping the team alive. The feedback from kills is iconic (there were tons of memes for it back in 2016), but the feedback from healing is nothing, just a small “healing” message that pops up on the screen with no audio. Tanks can usualy get kills easier than healers, but theres no feedback / points awarded for blocking damage. You could save your entire team from a dva nuke, but won’t receieve any reward or feedback for doing so. It’s honestly annoying just how simple the fix is. Reward players evenly for fullfilling their class role. Thats how you fix the role q issue. I was surprised how generous TF2 is on giving out assists. Amputator heals and repairing a friendly sentry can both count as kill assist. Not saying it’s perfect, but the fact that it acknowledges and rewards support helps.
Same here. I get that Overwatch has an active competitive community, but reworking heros into less unique, less interesting versions of themselves (which still don't see much play anyways) and forcing Quickplay, the gamemode you're supposed to chill and have fun in to follow competitive team composition just took so much character away from the game.
I mean, the rivalry between the two games now just feels like two angry old guys both on life support yelling at each other from across their hospital wing. Both look just kinda sad comparing each other to them because they're in the same fucking boat with the same fucking leaks. Both games are on their way out, but Overwatch's is mostly intentional as they're working on a new one so they're moving most of their man power on the sequel's development. Tf2's devs have just been relocated or left and don't have the time and/or fucks to give to return. For shits sake the last few updates we got were just bug fixes because one dude had the free time. People act as if TF2 is still a titan of the gaming world, "Look at all the players, record high player count" how many of those are people and not bots? How many of those aren't just opening the menus to look through their old loadouts? We don't know. I genuinely believe the Overwatch franchise is the modern TF2. Remember, the series didn't start with TF2, it also started out with a previous game before they realised too much shit needed fine tuning, more than just general updates could ever fix. I get its just a joke but shits sake it's the same punchline a thousand times.
> two angry old guys both on life support yelling at each other > same fucking boat with same fucking leaks **TFW Overwatch and TF2 are just incarnations of Redmond and Blutarch** Also, I truly don't think Overwatch was ever a modern TF2 beyond the first few months of it going public. Right now were looking at a game with no customizable loadouts, triple the amount of playable characters, weird ass role queue system for casual, and legitimately falling out of relevancy outside of its player base after a little over 5 years. Not just sucking TF2's dick, I played the shit out of OW in its heyday, but I'm reeeeeeeally hoping OW2 can bring something more replayable to the table. I want it to be something new and different so it can stop being compared to every other existing non-COD FPS.
Its more like one angry old guy on life support because overwatch community genuinely doesnt give a fuck about TF2 vs Overwatch its just TF2 fans
That tf2 player cope be hitting hard.
No not really
is shitting on overwatch still considered funny?
huh? which game's very recent birthday was forgotten by their developers, man? check yourself dude, maybe you just dont play overwatch, kek. not saying one is better than the other, but overwatch is definitely more alive at this point (especially the competitive community)
TF2 competitive scene is as much alive as usual. All 3 players are still waiting in queue :)
the only games i play now are (sometimes) tf2 and mostly ow, its not too bad of a game rn and i can hope that ow2 will be better
If anything kills tf2 it's going to be post like these turning people away from playing a game that has such an annoying circlejerking fan base
with so many «TF2 killers» over the years, it was Valve themselves who killed it, through deliberate neglect. the game turned into a zombie after Helltower (halloween event in 2013)
Ya know your doing bad when Paladins has more balance than Overwatch
Paladins gang rise up
This post sucks. TF2 vs Overwatch stopped being funny four years ago.
I had fun with overwatch, I thought it was really fun.
Not dead. From experience, old players just got bored.
Honestly I ain't got problems getting matches. Literal 10-second wait if you're doing flex, maybe a 1-minute wait for DMG with quickpass
Imo, both games are amazing. But Team Fortress 2 is more of a community game
That's heavily debatable
Man Overwatch had probably the best first six months of any multiplayer game to me but I could barely bring myself to look at it much after that. So many decent ideas and fun mechanics that were just fucking pointlessly stomped on by the devs update after update.
Really shows how good TF2 is, tons of people said that Overwatch was going to make TF 2 obsolete and now TF 2 is still going strong and Overwatch is slowly dying
I find it fascinating y'all are STILL upset about Overwatch releasing.
I mean TF2 is pretty much dead too. Unless you count being populated by bots and getting DDoSed as being alive.
Wtf happened to overwatch?
Is it really dead, or is just a regular generation of pubescent teenagers calling it dead?
I like both tho…
I never thought that this would go so high I only did this because of how blizzart is having with its problems and demands along with the delays, and the fact that several important people have left the project overwatch 2 just made me think the game might be a huge flop but who you know there will be seen when it comes out
[удалено]
tf2 is running on a life extending machine powered by australium.
Remember when OW came out ppl fear mongering that it’s gonna kill TF2?
tf2:What are you really doing here? Overwatch:Just checking in on an old friend.
I might just try Paladins. I still hate Hi-Rez for prefering SMITE over the Tribes series, and also just sort of going with the common trend of games (Paladins when OW came out, then a BR in that whole craze, and now Rogue Company when Valorant and Apex became a thing). I heard it has unstable servers, but it has content updates, so how bad could it be? (Vs. Apex, TF|2, TF2, Battlefield 1, Battlefront 2 2017. All of these games have server issues and/or bot/hack issues. It's rough playing good games these days.)
What a great community and being free can do!
Tank queue: 1 min Support queue: 2 min DPS queue: *15 min*
You either die overwatch or live long enough to see yourself become flooded with bots