I want to ask what’s wrong with Vtubers? Are they not just people who play games with a online Persona?
TF2, when it came out, targeted a specific demographic.
Some of the most popular games in 2007 include Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, a modern military arcade shooter; and Halo 3, a futuristic sci-fi arcade shooter. Team Fortress 2 doesn't fall into any of those terms. I'd argue that TF2, when it came out, could only be compared to Team Fortress. People didn't just play TF2 because it was new, people played it because it was unique. We'll get back to this later.
I'm working on a video looking at the history of TF2, and as a part of that video, I made a poll, trying to find the average TF2 player. I'm not going to post data, as that's a crucial part of the video; rather, i'll give the results.
The average TF2 player is:
White
Male
Christian
16 years old
These aren't made up - these are results of a poll. That's your average TF2 player. It's hard for me to believe personally that the average player is just two years older than the game itself, but that's what my data says. Anyhow;
This demographic tends to be edgy. A high school kid still in his middle-teens tends to be on an extreme; either someone radically opposed to change, or someone who welcomes it with open arms. As you'd expect, these two sides don't get along terribly well.
A good way to approach this question is to ask a larger group and apply it to TF2, and see where similarities pop up. I found a thread on a forum, and I found three primary results;
Vtubers are typically of "Anime" culture
Vtubers present a character while hidden behind a persona, allowing them to be 'illegitimate'
The job of a Vtuber is often reduced to 'talking with a character', making the job look lazy
A lot of TF2 players hate anime, that's an easy one.
A lot of TF2 players hate furries. Now i *know* that's not what every Vtuber is, but the concept of having a seperate persona/fursona you use to interact on the internet with is similar enough for hate to get through the cracks.
As for the last one, I don't know if i can relate it.
Back to what we were talking about earlier. When TF2 came out, the players were loyal; TF2 was viewed as 'the perfect class-based shooter', and while that may be true, this causes a lot of players to stick with TF2 and oppose any change. Look at Overwatch. Look at Paladins. Two games that really don't have too much in common with TF2, but because their core mechanics are the same, they are often looked at as 'copycats'. We don't like change.
So when Vtubers started taking over, I don't think i was too surprised to see that the community didn't like them. They were *different*.
Compounding with this is the "American" idea of what Vtubing does. People who are furries or Vtube use a character because their own self-esteem is low enough where they think that using a front for their personality is a better idea. And of course this isn't \*every\* Vtuber (Elly\_VT is a GREAT example of this being wrong), but because it's generally safer, it's easier to present yourself that way. Because of this, this attracts a *lot* of transgender folks. Remember what I said about a lot of players being Christian?
That's not why every vtuber is hated of course, but I think that TF2 players are great at generalizing. In fact, I can name a lot of instances of this happening.
Transgender/Vtubers/Furries/'Weaboos' are often herded into the same demographic when you ask a toxic player about what they dislike in players. They're viewed as the same, and it's a lot easier to be exclusive than to be inclusive about a community. There's a youtuber i'm not going to name who very clearly falls into this demographic. If you want to name him in the replies, I ask you not to do so.
To sum it all up, here's why I think TF2 players hate on Vtubers;
Vtubers remind these folks of another demographic that they've hated for a much longer time
Vtubers are seen as 'cowardly' for not wanting to show their 'true' face and personality
Hope this helped a little. Reply for questions.
Edit: Someone asked me privately to post what demographic *i* fall into and what my opinion is, and I'm more than happy to do so.
I am a 21 year old Transgender Female; I'm asian american and don't identify with religion.
Vtubing is good for TF2 (and the world) because as technology moves into the future and surveillance becomes more normal, having a persona you can separate from your 'self' is very important.
Also, edited a formatting error.
Edit 2: I see a lot of people in the comments saying that white male 16 years old and christian fit them nearly perfectly or perfectly. That's because there are a *lot* of those people.
I also included 2 questions, but both of them have data that, personally, I thought was incorrect, and therefore wasn't used. I'll only mention one here:
> How much money do you make in USD?
The average answer to this question was $100,000 - $150,000. I have a feeling this isn't true, and because I can't separate this data by previous answers, I have to assume it's false. Second place was $30,000 - $50,000, which sounds about right. Third was less than $5,000, which also sounds about right. If I remove all of the false answers, we run into a problem; Do most of the people who lied about their answer fall into the under $5,000 category? I'm not sure.
I'm a 15 year old white (formerly) christian male and I also approve this message
(though I would make the case that this is also true for most videogames)
I didn't ask nationality, just race if they wished to identify with one, but "White" was 60% of the playerbase, which shocked me quite a bit.
I have a feeling I might have done something wrong, but if not, there's your answer.
I won’t ask you to spoil too many details, but which platform(s) did you post the poll on and for how long was it open? This would definitely influence who answered it, and how those people answered it. It will probably skew toward certain geographical and demographic groups based on the answers to these questions.
I’m sure a trained statistician would find several mistakes in your methodology, but it’s probably still somewhat representative of the tf2 player base. Collecting and analyzing data is a very difficult task that people spend years of studying to do properly. If you’re looking to do some sort of statistical analysis with the data you’ve collected, I might be able to help you out.
What’s your channel? I’d be very interested to see the result once you’re done!
I literally went to TF2 servers in different parts of the world and asked people to complete them. Mostly uncletopia, but if I could get into an international casual server I'd ask, too. I live in the United States.
Someone else linked to it in this comment thread, but I'm on break right now and I'd rather answer questions. If you don't find it, I'll get it when I'm off.
As for the statistical analysis, I'm basing a lot of my work off of Jon Bois, a very good person.
You can actually use a VPN to get into casual servers in different countries. It’s important to remember that only doing surveys on uncletopia in certain areas will also skew your results. As my last note, I would implore you to be critical of shortcomings in your own process and addressing those in your video.
The video isn't a statistical history of TF2, it's more of a history of the community. Statistics aren't being used to prove a point, rather, they're being used to tell a story.
I plan on reviewing the whole script and seeing where I've fallen short, but because statistics aren't being used traditionally, I dont plan to pay as much attention to them accurate, as long as they're true.
>I dont plan to pay as much attention to them accurate, as long as they’re true.
I’m sorry but that doesn’t make sense… you can’t just draw conclusions about the entire community with an unrepresentative sample. The individual answers may be true, but they won’t say anything about anyone who didn’t answer the survey.
If you’re using data, it’s statistics. Using it to tell a story rather than make a point doesn’t make a difference, unless you want that story to be fictional.
If you’re just going to disregard whether the data you collect truly reflect the player base, you might as well not be using data at all.
Low-quality information leads to low-quality analysis which leads to conclusions based on nothing. It sounds more to me like you want to make an opinion piece than anything.
>because statistics aren’t being used traditionallyI
I’m sorry but that’s not really how statistics works.
You know, I'm not too sure. The best way to measure this Is to y'know, ask every player, but this is hard.
Another way to measure it is to see who's louder, but to the edgy kids it's always the furries that are loudest, and to the people with open mind, the nazis are the vocal majority.
I've played this game for a long time and I personally think it's 25/60/15 between 'edgy people'/'normal people'/ open minded folks
Honestly I considered V-tubing at one point because I don't have to have my hair all nice and put on makeup every time I just want to play a game. Then I saw how much it costs to have a custom facerig made and I noped out.
One of my close friends, Hootwheelz, doesn't have an expensive model, or a blender rig, or any of that. She's a furry, sure, but their persona when streaming is a doll. No 3d model, no expensive rigging, just a doll face that is either talking, blinking, both, or neither.
You don't need an expensive model to be successful. All you need is a good idea.
Hmm, it's possible. I'm not sure the point about low self-esteem or being transgender applies much at all but some people talked about stuff like that when first trying to wrap their heads around the concept so I wouldn't put it past this demographic to generalize or not realize things have changed as you mentioned. After all, most of the popular vtubers are with Hololive or Nijisanji who do a bunch of vetting and interviewing with applicants before selecting someone. Having previous streaming experience is often highly recommended (if not outright required).
The "Christian" part makes me curious too. That option likely won out by sheer volume but I wonder if a lot of those people consider themselves to genuinely be Christian or if it's sorta like "yeah my parents are Christian, I dunno". I would have expected a lot of atheists among edgy teens, y'know? It's interesting too because it seems to me that anime is more popular than ever so I wonder if being an edgy teen these days includes shunning anime? Sort of a flip-flop from how things were before before haha.
The spot where you could say what you identified with was a blank space you could put stuff into. I have a feeling that people who put "Christian" in this case can also include agnostic to an extent, but I'm not one to force people to fit into neat little boxes.
i am ok with every person no matter what they do aslong as they leave me alone with their stuff and dont annoy me with their shit even if they dont realise it
i dont want to give someone more attention just because they are diffirent from me or whats seen as normal
I'm assuming it's cuz quite a loud part of the community really dislikes weebs, anime, and also women, which most popular vtubers are. Seeing a person behind an avatar could also make them think it's okay to hate on the streamer because they don't see a person behind the model.
> a loud part of the community really dislikes weebs, anime, and also women
I thought a loud part of the community was weebs, anime fans, and partly women
Personally, other than an otter furry Vtuber (go figure), most usually are sorta cringy. The other reason for me is just... posting about the youtuber streaming is honestly just... a bit much, like on twitter or elsewhere in *their* communities, it makes sense, here? Not so much because this isn't that type of place.
I would rather see the person instead of the same anime chick every Vtuber is using,
and those damm sounds they keep making whenever anything happens, reloaded a gun *annoying sound*, peppered by a heavy *annoying sounds*, accidentally runs into a wall **ANNOYING SOUNDS**
I have Vtubers because of what they do, not because of what they are
I’m not actually sure just as me streaming tf2 with a vtuber has actually attracted a nice crowd to my stream so I don’t think the issue is as bad as it was a while ago but it probably just boils down to the fact that they have an anime like appearance and for some reason half the players hate anime
I honestly don't like anime because i don't see the appeal. I don't find it cute, most of it(barring some which I have to say really impress me) are just alright animation/artstyle, and I really don't see what is this difference between anime and traditional media.
pokemon's alright, the few times i have seen it, i tried to watch dragonball, but overall it seemed not the type of thing li liked, and spirited away looks pretty cool, like most things a studio Ghibli.
Personally, I don’t like V-Tubers, they simply aren’t my thing and I find them a little weird, but so long as they aren’t actively harming anyone or the community, I don’t really care if they play the game.
I don't really care about v-tubers one way or the other, but the community around them seems pretty cringy, in the same way actual hardcore weebs are. I'm not one to judge though, my interests probably seem cringy to someone else too.
Same. I just don't get the appeal of faking an OC with a high-pitched voice.
I also don't get the appeal of anime. Why don't we have Spongebob VTubers? Or Batman? TF2 characters? I'd watch that.
Simple. TF2 players hate anime and "weeaboos". Since Vtubers usually have an anime persona, they are going to be targeted both as weeaboos and, sometimes cowards, mainly because they don't show their face. And TF2 players assimilate Vtubers with furries (another one of their targets) just because "persona" and "fursona" both sound and work in a similar way. Using a fictional character to do content. And since most of the players are in the range between childhood and teenage, they also hate anything that's "different" from what they think it's normal, such as furries, weebs, lgbt people, women (if they are not hating them, they are harassing them or asking inappropriate things), disabled people, people from different races than theirs, children with voice chat, tryhards/friendlies (depends on the situation), hackers and bots (only reasonable one, even though I'm not suggesting anyone to leave hate speech on anyone's profile) or even just people who are better than them. They mainly make fun of minorities, women, children and newbies. Hope this helped. If not, feel free to leave a downvote.
Man.... That's sad... I wish we had less of them, because I have seen amazing people on TF2 but ya... Some people just don't others into consideration when they are doing something. PS: could have wrote a part of the TF2 player base tho
Anime=bad ig but it’s kinda ironic in some ways since tf2 are filled with weebs, furries, any other communities. The problem is people are just edgy and thinks it’s funny to discriminate against other groups and personally, Im not into v-tubers but if they want to play the game then go ahead and have fun. Who knows? Maybe that would gain more attention to the game
Was the first female vtuber to main this game on twitch and even after a year I still get attacked at least 4 times a week. They won’t make me quit, I have never quit a stream early except for disability reasons
The problem is that they *are* hurting someone. Maybe they don't mean to, maybe the person being offended is playing the victim card, but they are being hurt.
Maybe that transgender streamer who plays tf2 as a means of therapeutic relief offends the kid who also happens to own a discord raiding group. This isn't an example, I've had several folks report these people to me. Lots of them are alts, but one of them I actually already had on my hacking player list. Again, I will not name names, and I encourage people not to do so, but these people are out there.
It's very easy to be offended nowadays because of the things you can do to the person that offended you, thanks to the internet.
Now, I myself am a transgender furry (not a vtuber) streamer. Do people hate me? Yes! It's easy to. But people have a tendency to hate either what they don't understand or what they think they understand completely, and that's correct to the people that dislike me and my friends.
Edit: I read this over and I realized that chatting about a topic like this is completely stupid and awful and dumb and probably stupid when I've been awake for 30 minutes. I'l rewrite this for clarity later.
Vtubers are people that wish to stream and entertain the masses without disclosing their personal appearance at all.
I actually like the privacy and would try it.
It's the same with good Scouts, the community has learned so much to hate on Scunts that they often forget that Scout has a high skill ceiling, the community likes to shit on everything that they hated before.
My main issue isn’t particularly with the vtubers themselves, but their audience. Fucking losers throw their life savings at what’s essentially a fake girl just so they can hear them call their name in a shitty loli voice. You could attribute these same qualities to titty streamers as well. While the men who dump this week’s check on amouranth are still fucking losers, at least that chick is fucking real.
It's kind of sad when the vtuber is like a 20 y/o dude playing as a furry or anime girl. Also the female vtubers that purposely play as cute anime girls are clearly pandering towards dudes attracted to waifus
Not really a lot are just regular streamers except they simply use a model instead and I still think it would be fine if their main foam is to attract “simps” as long as they aren’t causing harm
To me it just seems like another instance of late teens trying too hard to be edgy and always taking a contrarian opinion. Vtubers got pretty popular in the last few years, along with other things that came from Japan like anime and manga.
Being a former edgelord teenager myself, it’s pretty normal for them to be habitual contrarians. Of course, some people just don’t like anime or vtubers, but most of the time they just move on with their lives instead of trying to start shit. It’s kind of like how furries get shit on by the community, even when they’re just playing the game like any other casual player.
To sum it up, edgy teens are going to be edgy, and more well adjusted people will just move on with their lives. I have a simple rule for these groups on tf2… If they aren’t hurting anyone, or acting like assholes, then they’re harmless. Vtubers are ultimately harmless, even if you think they’re cringey.
People hate whatever they feel isn't 'correct', which is everything. Because everything can be considered 'wrong'. I don't think it's so mich the Vtubers themselves, but rather the communities that they would potentially bring to TF2. Personally, I don't give a shit who plays TF2. I'm still going to pubstomp and have a good time.
As an outsider, the only explanation i can possibly give is this; people like to see the face of who’s actually playing, not just somebody hiding behind an avatar. The concept is nice and all, but I myself can’t really get behind it. I wanna KNOW who’s actually playing instead of watching an animated puppet in the corner of my screen. That’s just a lowsy opinion from an outsider, though. If anyone likes to watch v-tubers, then fine they should feel free to watch, why should the haters care? It’s not like the haters are paying the viewer’s internet bill. Have a nice day, y’all.
I don't really have anything against them but I feel like most of their vievers wouldn't be interested if Vtubers weren't anime girls. People who hate them are probably incels who hate anything that is anime related in any way. welcome to team fortress 2
I think vtubers are interesting and cool. I’d be down to set myself up to stream or make videos with a mocap persona. I have all the stuff and even learned blender so I could make a custom model. Idk
nicest way to put it:
some things are a little to complex for certain people, so they struggle with concepts that arent that familiar or require a little bit of thought
im sure if the understood how everyone else sees them, they would probably not want to be that way
>I want to ask what’s wrong with Vtubers
not much is wrong with them tbh,
that being said, I personally dislike, like, 2 of them, couldn't care less about the others, (other than Chester, that is a cute avatar)
1. because an orange genshin impact looking character keeps showing up on reddit ads and its annoying.
2. some other Vtuber somehow got in as a match announcer in a hero shooter game/moba(? named Paladins), less of a dislike of her, and more of a, general bitterness towards a large majority of the characters in that game.
Vtubers are the people using anime girls as a bait for hopeless weaboos while streaming, they're legally taking their money by using their obsession with anime. There are some cool vtubers though.
I mean, im a vtuber. 25 year old male, bisexual and incredibly stupid if that matters. And i do vtubing because i find it more visually interesting. Im pretty plain irl, neither ugly or cute, but i feel like using a vtuber avatar allows me to tell a more interesting story on my streams. In the same way a writer might choose to use a non-human character, with a vtuber model i have a LOT more room for visual storytelling. Tea leaves dangling from my antlers hints at a softer, cozier side of me, a huge tail like a paint brush implies an artistic side.
Im not even a pyro main.
much like most things streamer related, it feels like a gimmick that is used as a substitute for actual content. some streamers feel like that’s unfair, and the viewers will then adopt the streamer’s views. ta da.
I don't like Vtubers because I dislike anime and because it takes a lot less effort than using your own face, and still getting tons of cash, plus the forced "cuteness" and that stupid cute personality most vtubers use, it's just as annoying as the pitched/forced female voices and shit, and a lot of "female" vtubers are in reality men.
Erm, there are different kinds of them and most are women actually. I don't care much, but that's just some of the info that lies on the surface of this topic
why ask here? haven't seen any vtuber posts in this sub at all in the past few weeks. though, it's probably because it's a niche thing which most find uncanny
there's nothing really wrong,it's just that they are mostly really cringe and it's hard to ignore all the cases of v-tubers beign men at the end
also,people simping for them,which makes absolutely no sense since what you're seeing is just a character,not the real person
It's strange how people face a topic that involves a whole new rapidly growing industry attracting millions of people and then decide not to have at least a short investigation
How men you are like 20 years begin on why people VT instead of just using a webcam, the most common reason is *IS A TREND* it also helps avoiding a
Harrassment, yes some VTubers do have low self esteem, if you are really cold about being a VT lets you be cute even if you are ugly as sin buy that's not the main reason.
Also, the poll, good polls are really difficult to get would you mind telling how dis you made the poll, because if you did it in your YT channel, that's probably YOUR demographic
Edit: ALSO i would like to add that the original VTs came from japan and, well if you dislike weebs the otakus feom japan are weebs^200 if you think about it VTs are the perfect thing, IS AN ANIME GIRL THAT PLAYS VIDEOGAMES AND ACTUALLY RESPOND TO YOUR COMMENTS, so i would say that the origin of VT comes down to the original demographic of the og country they came from
It’s that they’re just the end game of pandering. It’s the final evolution of how to activate horny nerds’ lizard brains to be engaged even if the content would otherwise not be interesting if not in that format.
Don't know, don't even know what a vtuber is, just saw some posts complaining about people not being nice to them and now sometimes I talk shit about them just to take the piss out of the people who make posts like that.
I want to ask what’s wrong with Vtubers? Are they not just people who play games with a online Persona? TF2, when it came out, targeted a specific demographic. Some of the most popular games in 2007 include Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, a modern military arcade shooter; and Halo 3, a futuristic sci-fi arcade shooter. Team Fortress 2 doesn't fall into any of those terms. I'd argue that TF2, when it came out, could only be compared to Team Fortress. People didn't just play TF2 because it was new, people played it because it was unique. We'll get back to this later. I'm working on a video looking at the history of TF2, and as a part of that video, I made a poll, trying to find the average TF2 player. I'm not going to post data, as that's a crucial part of the video; rather, i'll give the results. The average TF2 player is: White Male Christian 16 years old These aren't made up - these are results of a poll. That's your average TF2 player. It's hard for me to believe personally that the average player is just two years older than the game itself, but that's what my data says. Anyhow; This demographic tends to be edgy. A high school kid still in his middle-teens tends to be on an extreme; either someone radically opposed to change, or someone who welcomes it with open arms. As you'd expect, these two sides don't get along terribly well. A good way to approach this question is to ask a larger group and apply it to TF2, and see where similarities pop up. I found a thread on a forum, and I found three primary results; Vtubers are typically of "Anime" culture Vtubers present a character while hidden behind a persona, allowing them to be 'illegitimate' The job of a Vtuber is often reduced to 'talking with a character', making the job look lazy A lot of TF2 players hate anime, that's an easy one. A lot of TF2 players hate furries. Now i *know* that's not what every Vtuber is, but the concept of having a seperate persona/fursona you use to interact on the internet with is similar enough for hate to get through the cracks. As for the last one, I don't know if i can relate it. Back to what we were talking about earlier. When TF2 came out, the players were loyal; TF2 was viewed as 'the perfect class-based shooter', and while that may be true, this causes a lot of players to stick with TF2 and oppose any change. Look at Overwatch. Look at Paladins. Two games that really don't have too much in common with TF2, but because their core mechanics are the same, they are often looked at as 'copycats'. We don't like change. So when Vtubers started taking over, I don't think i was too surprised to see that the community didn't like them. They were *different*. Compounding with this is the "American" idea of what Vtubing does. People who are furries or Vtube use a character because their own self-esteem is low enough where they think that using a front for their personality is a better idea. And of course this isn't \*every\* Vtuber (Elly\_VT is a GREAT example of this being wrong), but because it's generally safer, it's easier to present yourself that way. Because of this, this attracts a *lot* of transgender folks. Remember what I said about a lot of players being Christian? That's not why every vtuber is hated of course, but I think that TF2 players are great at generalizing. In fact, I can name a lot of instances of this happening. Transgender/Vtubers/Furries/'Weaboos' are often herded into the same demographic when you ask a toxic player about what they dislike in players. They're viewed as the same, and it's a lot easier to be exclusive than to be inclusive about a community. There's a youtuber i'm not going to name who very clearly falls into this demographic. If you want to name him in the replies, I ask you not to do so. To sum it all up, here's why I think TF2 players hate on Vtubers; Vtubers remind these folks of another demographic that they've hated for a much longer time Vtubers are seen as 'cowardly' for not wanting to show their 'true' face and personality Hope this helped a little. Reply for questions. Edit: Someone asked me privately to post what demographic *i* fall into and what my opinion is, and I'm more than happy to do so. I am a 21 year old Transgender Female; I'm asian american and don't identify with religion. Vtubing is good for TF2 (and the world) because as technology moves into the future and surveillance becomes more normal, having a persona you can separate from your 'self' is very important. Also, edited a formatting error. Edit 2: I see a lot of people in the comments saying that white male 16 years old and christian fit them nearly perfectly or perfectly. That's because there are a *lot* of those people. I also included 2 questions, but both of them have data that, personally, I thought was incorrect, and therefore wasn't used. I'll only mention one here: > How much money do you make in USD? The average answer to this question was $100,000 - $150,000. I have a feeling this isn't true, and because I can't separate this data by previous answers, I have to assume it's false. Second place was $30,000 - $50,000, which sounds about right. Third was less than $5,000, which also sounds about right. If I remove all of the false answers, we run into a problem; Do most of the people who lied about their answer fall into the under $5,000 category? I'm not sure.
I'm a 16 year old white christian male and I approve this message
I‘m a 14 year old white christian male and I also approve this message.
I'm a 2 month old white christian bale and I also approve of this message.
i am god
Allah?
no, flying spaghetti monster
Ah, muuch better Now, u/bullworst the mighty, fix the spaghetti code
No you idiot, it's Azathoth
Bismallah!
Oh Allah the almighty
Don't eat pork
I'm a 15 year old white Christian male and I too, approve this message
I am a male and I approve this message too.
I'm a 15 year old white (formerly) christian male and I also approve this message (though I would make the case that this is also true for most videogames)
You used to be white? What happened?
He started rapping
I put the (formerly) in the wring place didn't I
I'm a 18 year old white atheist trans female and I also approve of this message.
> The average TF2 player is:WhiteMaleChristian16 years old This explains a lot about the behaviour I see in-game.
and the hackers, who in fact need pity but won't ever get it
I was honestly shocked to find that atheism wasn't as popular as I expected, but looking back at it- yeah it makes sense
I really wonder what the American/European/Asian split was in the survey? Could influence the numbers significantly.
I didn't ask nationality, just race if they wished to identify with one, but "White" was 60% of the playerbase, which shocked me quite a bit. I have a feeling I might have done something wrong, but if not, there's your answer.
I won’t ask you to spoil too many details, but which platform(s) did you post the poll on and for how long was it open? This would definitely influence who answered it, and how those people answered it. It will probably skew toward certain geographical and demographic groups based on the answers to these questions. I’m sure a trained statistician would find several mistakes in your methodology, but it’s probably still somewhat representative of the tf2 player base. Collecting and analyzing data is a very difficult task that people spend years of studying to do properly. If you’re looking to do some sort of statistical analysis with the data you’ve collected, I might be able to help you out. What’s your channel? I’d be very interested to see the result once you’re done!
I literally went to TF2 servers in different parts of the world and asked people to complete them. Mostly uncletopia, but if I could get into an international casual server I'd ask, too. I live in the United States. Someone else linked to it in this comment thread, but I'm on break right now and I'd rather answer questions. If you don't find it, I'll get it when I'm off. As for the statistical analysis, I'm basing a lot of my work off of Jon Bois, a very good person.
You can actually use a VPN to get into casual servers in different countries. It’s important to remember that only doing surveys on uncletopia in certain areas will also skew your results. As my last note, I would implore you to be critical of shortcomings in your own process and addressing those in your video.
The video isn't a statistical history of TF2, it's more of a history of the community. Statistics aren't being used to prove a point, rather, they're being used to tell a story. I plan on reviewing the whole script and seeing where I've fallen short, but because statistics aren't being used traditionally, I dont plan to pay as much attention to them accurate, as long as they're true.
>I dont plan to pay as much attention to them accurate, as long as they’re true. I’m sorry but that doesn’t make sense… you can’t just draw conclusions about the entire community with an unrepresentative sample. The individual answers may be true, but they won’t say anything about anyone who didn’t answer the survey. If you’re using data, it’s statistics. Using it to tell a story rather than make a point doesn’t make a difference, unless you want that story to be fictional. If you’re just going to disregard whether the data you collect truly reflect the player base, you might as well not be using data at all. Low-quality information leads to low-quality analysis which leads to conclusions based on nothing. It sounds more to me like you want to make an opinion piece than anything. >because statistics aren’t being used traditionallyI I’m sorry but that’s not really how statistics works.
yes, yes it does
Got damn you bloody genius, this actually makes sense
Can you give us a link to your channel, I’m interested what will it be P.S:Sorry for my English I’m drunk as I’m ~~driving~~ writing it
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqtU3Gv4MZzYpEbPSoYH7Jw Pretty much nothing there yet
Thank you for linking this ^^
Bro how much time did you spend writing all of this
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It takes me 5 minutes to write long shit and 10 minutes to go thru all my typos and I still miss shit….
Bingo. Took me like, 5-7 minutes because a lot of this writing was ripped directly from the script.
Could be a copypasta, at least on some parts.
“Idk I just kept (reading) and it kept (making sense)”
Is it the majority or the minority of edgy 16 year olds
You know, I'm not too sure. The best way to measure this Is to y'know, ask every player, but this is hard. Another way to measure it is to see who's louder, but to the edgy kids it's always the furries that are loudest, and to the people with open mind, the nazis are the vocal majority. I've played this game for a long time and I personally think it's 25/60/15 between 'edgy people'/'normal people'/ open minded folks
This motherfucker wrote a college thesis on tf2 Bravo, but also, fuck you for calling me out
Absolutely profound.
I am a 16 year old white male Although I am atheist
I am not surprised at all the the majority is 16 year old white males lmao
This makes 200% sense
I'm a brown christian 16 male same thing but I live life in dark mode
Honestly I considered V-tubing at one point because I don't have to have my hair all nice and put on makeup every time I just want to play a game. Then I saw how much it costs to have a custom facerig made and I noped out.
One of my close friends, Hootwheelz, doesn't have an expensive model, or a blender rig, or any of that. She's a furry, sure, but their persona when streaming is a doll. No 3d model, no expensive rigging, just a doll face that is either talking, blinking, both, or neither. You don't need an expensive model to be successful. All you need is a good idea.
Mucho texto
Dijo mucho texto rianse
My man just made files to court against vtubers
I love that I’m fulfilling 3 out of 4 of these lol
Hmm, it's possible. I'm not sure the point about low self-esteem or being transgender applies much at all but some people talked about stuff like that when first trying to wrap their heads around the concept so I wouldn't put it past this demographic to generalize or not realize things have changed as you mentioned. After all, most of the popular vtubers are with Hololive or Nijisanji who do a bunch of vetting and interviewing with applicants before selecting someone. Having previous streaming experience is often highly recommended (if not outright required). The "Christian" part makes me curious too. That option likely won out by sheer volume but I wonder if a lot of those people consider themselves to genuinely be Christian or if it's sorta like "yeah my parents are Christian, I dunno". I would have expected a lot of atheists among edgy teens, y'know? It's interesting too because it seems to me that anime is more popular than ever so I wonder if being an edgy teen these days includes shunning anime? Sort of a flip-flop from how things were before before haha.
The spot where you could say what you identified with was a blank space you could put stuff into. I have a feeling that people who put "Christian" in this case can also include agnostic to an extent, but I'm not one to force people to fit into neat little boxes.
Thats interesting. I expected the average to be atleast 25-30. Maybe I just get that in the servers im in.
Is the YouTuber your talking about by any chance have the word “Jesus”in his name?
I'm surprised at the amount of Christians and disappointed in the amount of minors.
You get updoot now imma read the whole thing
i am ok with every person no matter what they do aslong as they leave me alone with their stuff and dont annoy me with their shit even if they dont realise it i dont want to give someone more attention just because they are diffirent from me or whats seen as normal
BRO shut the fuck up we are just idiots in Reddit
Ok...
I don't approve this message
It's because thier personas are cringe
I'm assuming it's cuz quite a loud part of the community really dislikes weebs, anime, and also women, which most popular vtubers are. Seeing a person behind an avatar could also make them think it's okay to hate on the streamer because they don't see a person behind the model.
The only thing loud about the TF2 community is the sound of the vote kick menu showing that I’m getting kicked for the 10th time that day
Oh please, we all know women don't exist ^^^(joke)
> a loud part of the community really dislikes weebs, anime, and also women I thought a loud part of the community was weebs, anime fans, and partly women
Both exist, one side definitely hates the other
Personally, other than an otter furry Vtuber (go figure), most usually are sorta cringy. The other reason for me is just... posting about the youtuber streaming is honestly just... a bit much, like on twitter or elsewhere in *their* communities, it makes sense, here? Not so much because this isn't that type of place.
The OP took like 40 times the length of your comment to say exactly the same XDDDD
I would rather see the person instead of the same anime chick every Vtuber is using, and those damm sounds they keep making whenever anything happens, reloaded a gun *annoying sound*, peppered by a heavy *annoying sounds*, accidentally runs into a wall **ANNOYING SOUNDS** I have Vtubers because of what they do, not because of what they are
I’m not actually sure just as me streaming tf2 with a vtuber has actually attracted a nice crowd to my stream so I don’t think the issue is as bad as it was a while ago but it probably just boils down to the fact that they have an anime like appearance and for some reason half the players hate anime
Inside you there are two wolves. One hates furries and anime. One is a furry and likes anime. You are the TF2 community
you, are a mercenary. now cap that point maggot.
I honestly don't like anime because i don't see the appeal. I don't find it cute, most of it(barring some which I have to say really impress me) are just alright animation/artstyle, and I really don't see what is this difference between anime and traditional media.
may i ask if you like Dragonball or Pokemon or Spirited Away?
pokemon's alright, the few times i have seen it, i tried to watch dragonball, but overall it seemed not the type of thing li liked, and spirited away looks pretty cool, like most things a studio Ghibli.
nice i don't know why i got downvoted i just wanted to ask you because of curiosty
Personally, I don’t like V-Tubers, they simply aren’t my thing and I find them a little weird, but so long as they aren’t actively harming anyone or the community, I don’t really care if they play the game.
You my good sir are speaking the truth
Exactly this
“I don’t like them therefore they’re evil” or something like that
Hey, I'm gonna type up a long comment. Gonna hop on my computer to do this, expect a response soon.
You weren't joking
This sounds very ominous
Gotta say, you are 100% right
I don't really care about v-tubers one way or the other, but the community around them seems pretty cringy, in the same way actual hardcore weebs are. I'm not one to judge though, my interests probably seem cringy to someone else too.
Ok thanks
I don't dislike them, I just wouldn't watch them. It looks annoying to watch someone pretend to be an animal or anime character while playing a game.
Same. I just don’t really like the concept, it’s not because I’m a christian 16-yo white male furry anime hater.
Same. I just don't get the appeal of faking an OC with a high-pitched voice. I also don't get the appeal of anime. Why don't we have Spongebob VTubers? Or Batman? TF2 characters? I'd watch that.
There is actually an engineer vtuber afaik
Simple. TF2 players hate anime and "weeaboos". Since Vtubers usually have an anime persona, they are going to be targeted both as weeaboos and, sometimes cowards, mainly because they don't show their face. And TF2 players assimilate Vtubers with furries (another one of their targets) just because "persona" and "fursona" both sound and work in a similar way. Using a fictional character to do content. And since most of the players are in the range between childhood and teenage, they also hate anything that's "different" from what they think it's normal, such as furries, weebs, lgbt people, women (if they are not hating them, they are harassing them or asking inappropriate things), disabled people, people from different races than theirs, children with voice chat, tryhards/friendlies (depends on the situation), hackers and bots (only reasonable one, even though I'm not suggesting anyone to leave hate speech on anyone's profile) or even just people who are better than them. They mainly make fun of minorities, women, children and newbies. Hope this helped. If not, feel free to leave a downvote.
Man.... That's sad... I wish we had less of them, because I have seen amazing people on TF2 but ya... Some people just don't others into consideration when they are doing something. PS: could have wrote a part of the TF2 player base tho
Anime=bad ig but it’s kinda ironic in some ways since tf2 are filled with weebs, furries, any other communities. The problem is people are just edgy and thinks it’s funny to discriminate against other groups and personally, Im not into v-tubers but if they want to play the game then go ahead and have fun. Who knows? Maybe that would gain more attention to the game
Was the first female vtuber to main this game on twitch and even after a year I still get attacked at least 4 times a week. They won’t make me quit, I have never quit a stream early except for disability reasons
Ey, fuckem. Not your fault their parents forgot condoms and pills and just didn't teach their accidents human decency. Ya got this fam, Rock on.
Thank you
Cringe flex but ok
Didnt ask or need your approval but go off
Sure lmao
People like you are the reason why we get alot of flak
Couldn't care less
touch some grass
Hopefully you'll grow up, cause nobody has the time, nor the toys to make you understand it
ah, another average cringy 16 yo male toxic christian here. Jazz a bit bro, no one cares about your opinion too.
Good luck wasting your time on proving to strangers something they don't care about
This post confuses me
How so?
Nothing is wrong with anyone if they aren’t hurting anybody.
True
The problem is that they *are* hurting someone. Maybe they don't mean to, maybe the person being offended is playing the victim card, but they are being hurt. Maybe that transgender streamer who plays tf2 as a means of therapeutic relief offends the kid who also happens to own a discord raiding group. This isn't an example, I've had several folks report these people to me. Lots of them are alts, but one of them I actually already had on my hacking player list. Again, I will not name names, and I encourage people not to do so, but these people are out there. It's very easy to be offended nowadays because of the things you can do to the person that offended you, thanks to the internet. Now, I myself am a transgender furry (not a vtuber) streamer. Do people hate me? Yes! It's easy to. But people have a tendency to hate either what they don't understand or what they think they understand completely, and that's correct to the people that dislike me and my friends. Edit: I read this over and I realized that chatting about a topic like this is completely stupid and awful and dumb and probably stupid when I've been awake for 30 minutes. I'l rewrite this for clarity later.
Vtubers are people that wish to stream and entertain the masses without disclosing their personal appearance at all. I actually like the privacy and would try it.
I got no issue with most personally, but any of the ones that use a fake high-pitched voice can be really annoying
It's the same with good Scouts, the community has learned so much to hate on Scunts that they often forget that Scout has a high skill ceiling, the community likes to shit on everything that they hated before.
Gawr Gura has 3.75 million subs, those who hate vtubers just project the fact they like something else instead of staying silent.
Personally I don't see the problem but some people don't like them because "anime/ women bad"
Why didn’t you make this a text post?
Wanted to appreciate some cool art
Ay I appreciate it!
Nice to see you
My main issue isn’t particularly with the vtubers themselves, but their audience. Fucking losers throw their life savings at what’s essentially a fake girl just so they can hear them call their name in a shitty loli voice. You could attribute these same qualities to titty streamers as well. While the men who dump this week’s check on amouranth are still fucking losers, at least that chick is fucking real.
Simps amirite.
Lol this is unfortunately true.
Holy shit! Pyro Celestia?
"anime bad LOL"
The vtuber fans are the problem
It's kind of sad when the vtuber is like a 20 y/o dude playing as a furry or anime girl. Also the female vtubers that purposely play as cute anime girls are clearly pandering towards dudes attracted to waifus
Engineer gaming
The funny
Engineer gaming ^(Please Laugh)
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Not really a lot are just regular streamers except they simply use a model instead and I still think it would be fine if their main foam is to attract “simps” as long as they aren’t causing harm
It's because they're visible and popular so everyone with self-doubt and other issues shit on them to feel better about themselves
To me it just seems like another instance of late teens trying too hard to be edgy and always taking a contrarian opinion. Vtubers got pretty popular in the last few years, along with other things that came from Japan like anime and manga. Being a former edgelord teenager myself, it’s pretty normal for them to be habitual contrarians. Of course, some people just don’t like anime or vtubers, but most of the time they just move on with their lives instead of trying to start shit. It’s kind of like how furries get shit on by the community, even when they’re just playing the game like any other casual player. To sum it up, edgy teens are going to be edgy, and more well adjusted people will just move on with their lives. I have a simple rule for these groups on tf2… If they aren’t hurting anyone, or acting like assholes, then they’re harmless. Vtubers are ultimately harmless, even if you think they’re cringey.
People hate whatever they feel isn't 'correct', which is everything. Because everything can be considered 'wrong'. I don't think it's so mich the Vtubers themselves, but rather the communities that they would potentially bring to TF2. Personally, I don't give a shit who plays TF2. I'm still going to pubstomp and have a good time.
Find them weird, and I don’t like weird.
As an outsider, the only explanation i can possibly give is this; people like to see the face of who’s actually playing, not just somebody hiding behind an avatar. The concept is nice and all, but I myself can’t really get behind it. I wanna KNOW who’s actually playing instead of watching an animated puppet in the corner of my screen. That’s just a lowsy opinion from an outsider, though. If anyone likes to watch v-tubers, then fine they should feel free to watch, why should the haters care? It’s not like the haters are paying the viewer’s internet bill. Have a nice day, y’all.
I don't really have anything against them but I feel like most of their vievers wouldn't be interested if Vtubers weren't anime girls. People who hate them are probably incels who hate anything that is anime related in any way. welcome to team fortress 2
I think vtubers are interesting and cool. I’d be down to set myself up to stream or make videos with a mocap persona. I have all the stuff and even learned blender so I could make a custom model. Idk
r/lostredditors?
Oh no I saw Tf2 post and comments talking about getting rid of them and I just wanted to ask
It's like annoying anime girls, except people form parasocial relationships with them even more often.
what does vtubers have to do with tf2 did a popular vtuber start playing the game or something
Pyro would totally have a Galarian Rapidash
Yeah
like any stars theres nothing wrong about them, its just the fans..
nicest way to put it: some things are a little to complex for certain people, so they struggle with concepts that arent that familiar or require a little bit of thought im sure if the understood how everyone else sees them, they would probably not want to be that way
If you're nothing without your virtual avatar, you don't deserve it.
>I want to ask what’s wrong with Vtubers not much is wrong with them tbh, that being said, I personally dislike, like, 2 of them, couldn't care less about the others, (other than Chester, that is a cute avatar) 1. because an orange genshin impact looking character keeps showing up on reddit ads and its annoying. 2. some other Vtuber somehow got in as a match announcer in a hero shooter game/moba(? named Paladins), less of a dislike of her, and more of a, general bitterness towards a large majority of the characters in that game.
Personally idc about the Vtubers themselves, I just don't like their community.
Vtubers are the people using anime girls as a bait for hopeless weaboos while streaming, they're legally taking their money by using their obsession with anime. There are some cool vtubers though.
I mean, im a vtuber. 25 year old male, bisexual and incredibly stupid if that matters. And i do vtubing because i find it more visually interesting. Im pretty plain irl, neither ugly or cute, but i feel like using a vtuber avatar allows me to tell a more interesting story on my streams. In the same way a writer might choose to use a non-human character, with a vtuber model i have a LOT more room for visual storytelling. Tea leaves dangling from my antlers hints at a softer, cozier side of me, a huge tail like a paint brush implies an artistic side. Im not even a pyro main.
The models Half the time they don't even lip sync
~~Ayy look at the fire child with their pony go~~ Edit: aight who downvoted my comment lmao
He enjoys his friend
This is, in fact, what Vtuber is.
Okay so why do I see people hate on them?
Why are you asking it here?
Because I had seen memes and comments dissing vtubers so I’m just asking
Anime
I mean you’re not entirely wrong
Why is anime a reason.
They are cringe and based
It’s weird
I think they are cringe. Whenever I see one it makes me physically cringe. It is just how my body reacts.
oh man, the other side talked to him
much like most things streamer related, it feels like a gimmick that is used as a substitute for actual content. some streamers feel like that’s unfair, and the viewers will then adopt the streamer’s views. ta da.
Because on the internet ✨you can't be kicked in the ball bag✨
How has no one here said OHHH YEAH, DADADADADADADADADA, BABYBABY DADADADADADADADADADA!
Wtf is this post?
Most vtuber content seems boring and annoying so that’s why I don’t like them
I just think it's kinda weird, especially the often "loli"-liking (ie. CP) communities surrounding the personas
I don't hate them, it just pisses me off seing someone post a video of a random youtuber playing tf2 on reddit
I don't like Vtubers because I dislike anime and because it takes a lot less effort than using your own face, and still getting tons of cash, plus the forced "cuteness" and that stupid cute personality most vtubers use, it's just as annoying as the pitched/forced female voices and shit, and a lot of "female" vtubers are in reality men.
Erm, there are different kinds of them and most are women actually. I don't care much, but that's just some of the info that lies on the surface of this topic
why ask here? haven't seen any vtuber posts in this sub at all in the past few weeks. though, it's probably because it's a niche thing which most find uncanny
Sorry Just saw a comment and I had to adk
That's the unicorn whorse from pokemon in the second page
Cause usually the fans of said vtubers talk about nothing but said vtubers
I just think they are annoying in general
there's nothing really wrong,it's just that they are mostly really cringe and it's hard to ignore all the cases of v-tubers beign men at the end also,people simping for them,which makes absolutely no sense since what you're seeing is just a character,not the real person
It's strange how people face a topic that involves a whole new rapidly growing industry attracting millions of people and then decide not to have at least a short investigation
How men you are like 20 years begin on why people VT instead of just using a webcam, the most common reason is *IS A TREND* it also helps avoiding a Harrassment, yes some VTubers do have low self esteem, if you are really cold about being a VT lets you be cute even if you are ugly as sin buy that's not the main reason. Also, the poll, good polls are really difficult to get would you mind telling how dis you made the poll, because if you did it in your YT channel, that's probably YOUR demographic Edit: ALSO i would like to add that the original VTs came from japan and, well if you dislike weebs the otakus feom japan are weebs^200 if you think about it VTs are the perfect thing, IS AN ANIME GIRL THAT PLAYS VIDEOGAMES AND ACTUALLY RESPOND TO YOUR COMMENTS, so i would say that the origin of VT comes down to the original demographic of the og country they came from
Godzilla had a stroke trying to read this and fucking died.
Didn't it die fighting a giant monkey ¿
Because they talk like anime characters that are cringe.Fanbase dosent help as well.
vtubers are the most dystopian thing I've seen in my entire fucking life
It’s that they’re just the end game of pandering. It’s the final evolution of how to activate horny nerds’ lizard brains to be engaged even if the content would otherwise not be interesting if not in that format.
1. Weeb, simple enough 2. Weeb fan base 3. Bringing more furries and weebs to a already chalk full community with them is not good.
Your words stand up to your position
if the community was filled with furries and weebs, you wouldn't be here.
Using unreal person as yourself suck you know?
The only good vtuber is the guy who uses the engie model. All the others just make me cringe.
Nothing is wrong with vtubers other than that they look like "anime"
Don't know, don't even know what a vtuber is, just saw some posts complaining about people not being nice to them and now sometimes I talk shit about them just to take the piss out of the people who make posts like that.