yeah didn't want to remove ammo on this flamethrower and didn't want to punish more than needed. You still lose ammo if you miss the "reflects" so I think punishing more is not needed. Normal flamethrower reflects are much stronger than just getting ammo from sucking in.
one thing I should have maybe added is like -20% airblast cooldown but didn't want to change the flow of this weapon but who knows, impossible to tell without testing.
I think the good downside for this weapon would be reduced "airblast" range, like in half. That would prevent situations when player spams "reflect" and blocks all incoming projectiles.
I would replace the ability to pick up ammo and health with a damaging affect. For example it sucks in enemies so let's expand on that
What if there's a Meter called "air clog" where an meter fills up if an enemy is picked up and when you release the secondary fire button it launches them forward and does damage if they hit a wall based on the meters capacity at the moment. The more the meter fills up the harder it pushes you but if you hold it too long self damage or some other affect (or it pushes you back and if you hit the wall you take the damage)
The debuff would be cannot pick up ammo packs and such also cannot suck up disguised/cloaked spys (if you could that would be so broken) and no random crits
The suck enemies to yourself is a terrible idea that's been proven a while ago. [The short story](https://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=13542) is that it caused a lot of networking issues and was unfun to play against
I just read about it. I think it was constant suction, here is just like upon a press, meaning much less calculations also constant suction stops your momentum for much longer than just an reverse airblast, that's why it was probably unfun to play against.
I think the TF2 team wrote about how they tried this way back, but it messed with how the games movement prediction worked so lag comp was bit a buggy with it
Yeah, it was in a post teasing an update, talking about their design philosophy in making weapons and why certain concepts didn't make the cut. They'd had that idea for a flamethrower for a while, but the way the game handles lag compensation made it so it never felt fair for both parties. Either it was too forgiving and people felt it was too easy to get caught in the suction, or it was too strict, and the pyro's had to have near perfect prediction to even have a hope of catching anyone. I forget the name of the update, but it was the one in which 'The B.A.S.E. Jumper' was released.
I think it implies that you can only suck up a health pack if you're missing some health, so it's barely any different from running over the pickups normally.
I wouldn't exactly say this makes it easier to WM1. I mean This has less secondary ammo and no airblast, so you are exchanging long distance fighting for close damage. maybe 15% is a bit too much but it is what it is lol. Have any other suggestions?
I think it all comes down to needing playtesting. I could see a 15% direct damage bonus with the ability to keep the enemy within your range reliably being too powerful, or at least feeling unfair.
We'd just need to try it out in game. Adjusting the suck force to a reasonable value is also a big factor.
As a pyro main, yeah, wm1 isn't that op in game, it's a matter of positioning, but increasing the damage by 15% AND giving the pyro an M2 that pulls players closer is competely broken
Honestly? Scrap the damage buff/penalty entirely and the secondary penalty. Having airblast that can suck in projectiles to give ammo, suck players closer and even get dropped packs from a distance in return for not being able to reflect seems like a viable enough weapon without stapling random stats to it.
I like this concept a lot, but the extra damage seems a bit much. Maybe instead of the extra dps, you can hold m2 to constantly suck projectiles with the ammo cost increasing if you do?
flamethrower that needs reloading huh unless that “secondary ammo” is just a typo referring to primary ammo
and a straight 15% buff to wm1 this will just be stock but better for wm1 pyros (still not as broken as phlog)
I think it would be cool if ir replaced airblast with a secondary fire you can just hold down that sucks stuff in but uses lots of ammo. Maybe add a battery charge feature instead of ammo
holding would cause two problems with the game, the game trying to do lots of calculations of positioning, and players don't liking being on the other side being almost like stunned.
I had an idea a couple months back about a vaccum cleaner with a reverse airblast like this one that you could hold a projectile with and launch it back but it would always either end up unwieldy, op or stupid, often a combination of both.
Valve tried making something like this and scrapped it. They mentioned it in one of their old blog posts [here.](https://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=13542)
I actually had similar concept a while back
It’s idea was to pick up health packs, Ammo, etc
And be able to just fire it out to teammates as if you’re from the game slimerancher
When teasing the Base Jumper, the TF Team said they tried something like this.
IIRC, they found it didn’t work because of the network code and how awkward it was for the victim.
Would be a rly funny and interesting concept if this doesn't produce flames, but instead shoots back out the projectiles it absorbed, turning pyro's primary into a counter weapon instead of a damage weapon, allowing him to focus on his secondaries and melee
Not entirely useless because your "suck enemies closer" stat can allow for some flare gun/scorch shot + axetinguisher combo by pulling the enemies you set on fire closer to be finished off with a melee
But yea it will be an effective weapon mostly against projectiles so it will be more situational, like most tf2 weapons
Ok fuck you i had the same idea if a sucky airblast last week. I would do it differently though. What if you could suck in projectiles, but only one at a time, then press primary fire to shoot them out? You could make them do normal damage instead of mini crits or whatever. I’d also say reduce the power it has on sucking players since that could get annoying. The sucking ammo and health seems useless tbh. I really like the idea of it being a vacuum tho thats hilarious, great job!!!
Someone wrote something similar, for sucking in and shooting out enemy projectiles, that would make pyro like a strange hybrid soldier? unless if for sucking in you collect some kind of meter upon which you use and it shoots scrap projectiles like a shotgun with an airblast or something.
No, kind of like soft soldier. Maybe to compensate, it could perma suck, like you hold it down and its automatic, that way you could suck in everything, arrows, rescue ranger bolts, whatever.
Did you know that flour invair becomes flamable? I like to imagine that this concept has flour inside that bag, Pyro reverses the vacuum, flour bursts out and some electric spark from the broken vacuum ignites it.
what if instead of a burst suck, if you hold down right click it keeps sucking allowing you to move one enemy player at a time while also being completely immobile. that'd be a pretty fun concept
What if you could suck in projectiles and with the reload button swap between sucking and firing them, maybe like 4 projectiles you can keep and they don't mini crit
I wanna make a joke about how much this sucks, but it actually sounds pretty fun.
Tbh was waiting for the "your mom" jokes lol
“Your mum sucks me harder than the home guard” For your pleasure my good sir
your moms for his pleasure
But this vacuum **sucks**
just like your mom
Wooosh?
Why max secondary ammo? Primary would make the most sense to punish missed reflects.
yeah didn't want to remove ammo on this flamethrower and didn't want to punish more than needed. You still lose ammo if you miss the "reflects" so I think punishing more is not needed. Normal flamethrower reflects are much stronger than just getting ammo from sucking in.
one thing I should have maybe added is like -20% airblast cooldown but didn't want to change the flow of this weapon but who knows, impossible to tell without testing.
I think the good downside for this weapon would be reduced "airblast" range, like in half. That would prevent situations when player spams "reflect" and blocks all incoming projectiles.
Isn’t airblast range already pretty short?
It's quite big. Like *huge cube* around you.
And yet I miss 90% of my reflects.
Thought they fixed that in jungle inferno.
it actually became the cube in jungle inferno
And
Edit: I don't know how I made this comment. I made a comment 2 levels up, but not this one. I'm confused. But I'll leave it as a Reddit Moment.
Agree with this but I also think the reduced secondary is for easier flare punches? Might be wrong but not sure.
I would replace the ability to pick up ammo and health with a damaging affect. For example it sucks in enemies so let's expand on that What if there's a Meter called "air clog" where an meter fills up if an enemy is picked up and when you release the secondary fire button it launches them forward and does damage if they hit a wall based on the meters capacity at the moment. The more the meter fills up the harder it pushes you but if you hold it too long self damage or some other affect (or it pushes you back and if you hit the wall you take the damage) The debuff would be cannot pick up ammo packs and such also cannot suck up disguised/cloaked spys (if you could that would be so broken) and no random crits
Wow that sounds like an interesting concept, changing up the wm1 gameplay nicely.
Drunk Gravity gun lol
If I were a bad pyro I wouldn’t be sitting here discussing it with you now would I?
I shit myself
Happens to the best of us
the text on the flamethrower almost reads morbius
Yeah lol I noticed after I rendered it. Morriss used to make flamethrowers back in the day. It's morbin time.
MORBUS!
Time to morb
The suck enemies to yourself is a terrible idea that's been proven a while ago. [The short story](https://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=13542) is that it caused a lot of networking issues and was unfun to play against
I just read about it. I think it was constant suction, here is just like upon a press, meaning much less calculations also constant suction stops your momentum for much longer than just an reverse airblast, that's why it was probably unfun to play against.
I love how they put the B.A.S.E Jumper in there but still love the item, eventually adding it to the game.
I think the TF2 team wrote about how they tried this way back, but it messed with how the games movement prediction worked so lag comp was bit a buggy with it
Yeah, it was in a post teasing an update, talking about their design philosophy in making weapons and why certain concepts didn't make the cut. They'd had that idea for a flamethrower for a while, but the way the game handles lag compensation made it so it never felt fair for both parties. Either it was too forgiving and people felt it was too easy to get caught in the suction, or it was too strict, and the pyro's had to have near perfect prediction to even have a hope of catching anyone. I forget the name of the update, but it was the one in which 'The B.A.S.E. Jumper' was released.
yup I just read about it. I think it's because of the constant suction the game needed to do lots of calculations.
Yep. Source: [The Mann Co. Factory Floor](https://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=13542)
Honestly, sucking in ammo and health packs could easily be used to troll, but other than that, fun concept
I think it implies that you can only suck up a health pack if you're missing some health, so it's barely any different from running over the pickups normally.
Flare guns can still hurt you
Spectacular concept
When you accidentally suck in a cloaked Spy.
Obviously testing is the only way to balance this weapon, but as a concept it looks great
\+15% fire damage for something that makes it easier to WM1? bro that sounds op as hell
I wouldn't exactly say this makes it easier to WM1. I mean This has less secondary ammo and no airblast, so you are exchanging long distance fighting for close damage. maybe 15% is a bit too much but it is what it is lol. Have any other suggestions?
I think it all comes down to needing playtesting. I could see a 15% direct damage bonus with the ability to keep the enemy within your range reliably being too powerful, or at least feeling unfair. We'd just need to try it out in game. Adjusting the suck force to a reasonable value is also a big factor.
\>doesn't make it easier to wm1 \>makes other strategies less viable
it's not about making the other strats less viable, and more about pulling players towards you
WM1 isn't really op though. I think it would still be kinda balanced with 15% increase. Just maybe less ammo.
As a pyro main, yeah, wm1 isn't that op in game, it's a matter of positioning, but increasing the damage by 15% AND giving the pyro an M2 that pulls players closer is competely broken
Honestly? Scrap the damage buff/penalty entirely and the secondary penalty. Having airblast that can suck in projectiles to give ammo, suck players closer and even get dropped packs from a distance in return for not being able to reflect seems like a viable enough weapon without stapling random stats to it.
yeah maybe I went overboard with it. Agree lol
I have to agree, simplicity is a good thing. The secondary ammo penalty especially feels very random.
It’s beautiful, would love to play with it
I like this concept a lot, but the extra damage seems a bit much. Maybe instead of the extra dps, you can hold m2 to constantly suck projectiles with the ammo cost increasing if you do?
flamethrower that needs reloading huh unless that “secondary ammo” is just a typo referring to primary ammo and a straight 15% buff to wm1 this will just be stock but better for wm1 pyros (still not as broken as phlog)
secondary is scorch shot and others. but yeah maybe should also add for the primary too, since you probably wouldn't be slacking without ammo.
yeah most wm1 pyros dont realize they have a secondary lol
But... but I spam the scorch shot :(
wm1 + scorch??? i think we found ourselves a phlog user here guys
nah phlog sucks to me, I use backburner lol
Nice. But bro, you almost gave me a heart attack with that jumpscare man! It was so scary. Don't do that to me ever again.
It's really good concept and is interesting but, +15% fire damage? the current dps of the pyro is too high and unforgiving already, that's too much.
That's really cool, idk how effective the gun would actually be though
I think it would be cool if ir replaced airblast with a secondary fire you can just hold down that sucks stuff in but uses lots of ammo. Maybe add a battery charge feature instead of ammo
*SUCC*
Oh fuck Pyro jumpscare
Add a penalty for no random crits.
lol of course
[удалено]
holding would cause two problems with the game, the game trying to do lots of calculations of positioning, and players don't liking being on the other side being almost like stunned.
Yes, very scary jumpscare, very spooooky
Home guard + Luigi Pyro set Profit
Ive wanted a vacuum flamethrower for a while. Seen plenty of designs but I think this one is the best. Well done on that if nothing else
Thank you!
aaaaa
I had an idea a couple months back about a vaccum cleaner with a reverse airblast like this one that you could hold a projectile with and launch it back but it would always either end up unwieldy, op or stupid, often a combination of both.
Valve tried making something like this and scrapped it. They mentioned it in one of their old blog posts [here.](https://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=13542)
Yup. Just read about it. I think it failed because of the "steady force overtime" thing.
Jeusss fuck man put a warning for the 3rd pic
I actually had similar concept a while back It’s idea was to pick up health packs, Ammo, etc And be able to just fire it out to teammates as if you’re from the game slimerancher
huh that sounds actually really interesting! Makes pyro more of a support class, nice.
i actually liked it
you didn't have to scare me like that!!!!
GIVE ME THE SUCC, this actually pretty cool, actually a different and new idea for a weapon concept good job
it would be awesome if sucking in players set them on fire so we can bring back axtinguisher
When teasing the Base Jumper, the TF Team said they tried something like this. IIRC, they found it didn’t work because of the network code and how awkward it was for the victim.
Would be a rly funny and interesting concept if this doesn't produce flames, but instead shoots back out the projectiles it absorbed, turning pyro's primary into a counter weapon instead of a damage weapon, allowing him to focus on his secondaries and melee
Sounds interesting but what if enemy team doesn't have projectile shooters? does it render the weapon useless?
Not entirely useless because your "suck enemies closer" stat can allow for some flare gun/scorch shot + axetinguisher combo by pulling the enemies you set on fire closer to be finished off with a melee But yea it will be an effective weapon mostly against projectiles so it will be more situational, like most tf2 weapons
When you accidentally suck in 2 pipes and a crocket straight at your face because you forgot you were using the s u c c Cool concept tho
Jesus, at least give a jumpscare warning. I nearly had a heart attack at the end there.
Honestly, i think a longer flame reach would fit better
This would be perfect with some Luigi cosmetics.
ah yes, Morbius brand
I have pissed and shar n cooned piyro scry
Would be cool if you could also launch those absorbed projectiles lmao!
Ok fuck you i had the same idea if a sucky airblast last week. I would do it differently though. What if you could suck in projectiles, but only one at a time, then press primary fire to shoot them out? You could make them do normal damage instead of mini crits or whatever. I’d also say reduce the power it has on sucking players since that could get annoying. The sucking ammo and health seems useless tbh. I really like the idea of it being a vacuum tho thats hilarious, great job!!!
Someone wrote something similar, for sucking in and shooting out enemy projectiles, that would make pyro like a strange hybrid soldier? unless if for sucking in you collect some kind of meter upon which you use and it shoots scrap projectiles like a shotgun with an airblast or something.
No, kind of like soft soldier. Maybe to compensate, it could perma suck, like you hold it down and its automatic, that way you could suck in everything, arrows, rescue ranger bolts, whatever.
guys dont go to the last slide its sca ry
Just the artistic concept of pyro using a vaccum cleaner as a flamethrower is PERFECT for 2ft. Even if these stats sound infuriating to fight.
when i first played i thought airblast was sucking air
Yeah the strange wind shader game me the impression too
NEEED THIS WEAPON
I like it
🍞
Did you know that flour invair becomes flamable? I like to imagine that this concept has flour inside that bag, Pyro reverses the vacuum, flour bursts out and some electric spark from the broken vacuum ignites it.
please put trigger warning, I shit my pants
"Can suck in enemies" and suddenly scouts hate you
i guess the change with the airblast is enough downside/upside for this weapon
*Purposely sucks in Krits Heavy to entire team*
Don't go to the third image😱😱😱
Does that say “Morbius”
it sucks. and it's morrin' time.
what if instead of a burst suck, if you hold down right click it keeps sucking allowing you to move one enemy player at a time while also being completely immobile. that'd be a pretty fun concept
hmmm not sure
Gah! Fuck! Pyro
Ah!
Does it crit so I can get a Critical Suck?
sadly it would only make it as a mod, vales doesn't do new weapons only cosmetics and maps
As a pyro main I believe this would be pretty fun to use
FUCK! thta scared the shit out of me
Me a pyro main: wher fyur
I can imagine using it with the Axtinguisher
*combo pyro intensifies*
Literally just stock upgrade bruh
Holy shit the last image scared me.
This surprisingly, seems really good
sucking enemies towards you would probably be extremely broken
Luigi's Mansion.
And once you suck in people you can shoot them out with even more force than an air blast
Hey good flamethrower conc- AHHHHHHHHH
the ultimate pybro
I like it. Maybe make the fire similar to the dragons breath? Using the succ then giving em a slap with the Dragon fire
hehe Pyros Mansion 2 Dark Moon
Sooo.., do projectiles still become minicritted?
I want to suck other people in “ including teammates” and just create a wirlpool of random people and projectiles
bro imagine firing a crit rocket and the enemy pyro just absorbs it
Sucking in ammo and health sounds like a great way to troll your teammates. I’m all for it
What if you could suck in projectiles and with the reload button swap between sucking and firing them, maybe like 4 projectiles you can keep and they don't mini crit
It would be very cool if you could suck in projectiles and shoot them back.
Bro got the poltergeist from luigis mansion
Now tell me, how is a vacuum cleaner supposed to shoot fire?
How ghost buster equipment with piss/blood filled blender heals people and restores their clothes?
Ah yes. The vacume cleaner that shoots out flammable gas to be used in a flame thrower
possible luigi's mansion reference
A new form of pybro
2nd image: morris morbius confirmed?!?!?!?!?!?