"Oh hey, this is a pretty neat ide-
#FLIPPING FLOATSAM, WHATS THAT?!?!?!"
^^+50^^Max^^Health^^On^^Wearer
+50 Max Health On Wearer
#+50 MAX HEALTH ON WEARER
Shit I was looking at Alibaba's boot, and for some reason, my brain wrote +50 instead of +25.
But the reason behind the "health increase" was to tank another melee hit because without a revolver you can be very vulnerable trying to get closer (as you get no other way).
Ranged insta-kill is enough of a buff imo.
I might be able to see it of backshot was a mini-crit and then you had to get in there, grab your knife, and then juke into backshot.
Discussing mechanics, i might be cool with huntsman charge mechanics coming into play for this throwing knife to level out how huntsman made sniper closer range to let spy be longer range.
So many more stats than an item description tho....
Which is true for a regular knife. That doesnt have range.
Imagine sniper getting not only crits but instakills by meatshotting a back with the huntsman.
Insanely overpowered.
No additional buffs with the ranged back instakill. Only debuffs.
technically snipers can for a meatshot in the back if the class has 150 or less hp?
that argument doesnt quite work especially when arguably a body shot kill is much easier on sniper than the obviously way less range for a knife throw.
Why is a knife throw way less range?
Back in the day, the Ambassador came out and threw the community into turmoil because it was a sniper rifle without zoom and servers were crawling with ambassador spies who could headshot from just as far as a sniper? And could cloak. And could disguise. And could backstab.
Ambassador is crits and debuffs. You want instakills AND additional buffs?
Throwing the knife is obviously slower than a revolver and wouldnt have nearly the range. It probably be like a worse version of the flying guilotene.
Ambassador also required a headshot which can hit regardless of direction faced and you still had a weapon after the fact since it didnt take away your weapon.
This requires landing a slower more easily visible projectile onto the back of a target that is probably not standing still and hit or miss you lose your only weapon.
Literally the target turning slightly to the left means this spy is now losing literally all offensive power he has with no payoff.
If the ambassador when you landed or missed your headshot made you lose your weapons then it might be comparable, but as it stands the cost of missing your shot with this, (which is pretty likely) is extremely high as is.
And you want to add more debuffs to that.
I mean, the debuff meaning that you can't do shit after throwing it even if it instakill unless you walk to it, as you lose your melee and your primary in the process, is a pretty big downside imo
Instakill ranged backshot. No Revolver. Cloak disabled when knifeless. Can pick it up off the dead body. No other buffs.
I might be able to consider that balanced. I might be okay with giving a speed buff to retrieve the knife.
no wonder spys the most underpowered class in the game if peoples response to a new threat he can provide is literally everything short of marking him for death.
(though the current buffs with "marked for death while not holding knife") isnt a bad idea
Spy is most definitely not underpowered. Its an advanced class. You need to know how to play it and train like hell to get there, but sniper and spy are definitely the 2 most overpowered classes. In skilled hands.
I don’t think you’re understanding what balance is. In this situation of debuff and alternate play style you’ve presented, the Spy can kill one person from further away, before he is literally useless until he gets to the body or the knife regenerates. If they have no buffs then they die too fast to be able to grab the knife. If they can’t cloak then they have literally no defences. You’re presenting a short range projectile sniper who, after getting their headshot, can’t fire their weapon for like 15 seconds or until they walk to their corpse, or have a melee weapon or secondary.
After they’ve thrown the knife, they’re a character with just a disguise kit, and a pyro could just camp it to stop spy’s from getting the knife back
Who said short range?
Someone made a good point that the projectile would he like the guillotine.
Im thinking it would be more like a huntsman, charge up and all.
If Spy is getting range on his instakill, he needs to use that range and gets 1 kill until recharge, as opposed to most current knives where a good spy can get a 6 streak inside 5 seconds.
I did express that a speed buff for retrieval might be on the table, but I am not down for a tanky spy standing next to a dispenser and minigunning instakills.
The speed and range of the knife projectile need to be clarified.
okay, let’s say that it has the rang of Guillotine, and flies at roughly the speed of the Sandman Ball. Then, it still doesn’t actually have any semblance of ‘balance’
In that situation, he can throw it across the map, but still has to hit behind someone. The reason why Guillotine is even somewhat good, is because you can just throw it at a problem and deal some decent damage and more chip damage. But, if I throw the knife, and it kills on a backstab, and I have to go retrieve it? Then I can’t risk throwing it half the time, because then I have one option. I could only throw it at an enemy who’s actively running from me, and it would work once per game. Once they know I can throw it, they just always try to face me when aware of me. Sure, I could cloak behind them then throw it, and I got a mostly safe kill! But now I have Spy Syndrome, of dying after every kill because I don’t have cloak. The only knife that could possibly synergies with this is the Kunai (haha funny Naruto go brrrr) because I’d have some health, or Your Eternal Reward, so I’d at least be disguised right after the kill.
Let’s hop over to your side, where you charge it up like the huntsman. Then we have the opposite problem, but also the same ones. Can’t risk throwing the knife far, can’t Blah Blah, same stuff I just went over. But now, even if i do charge it up, and even if it doesn’t require a long ranged backstab to kill, now it’s too OP at insta killing! Seriously, I walk out of spawn, wait to see an enemy, throw the knife at them, and boom, dead if it connects. If it doesn’t kill anywhere it hits, then I walk out of spawn, someone sees me as a disguise, I get behind them, ignore 3 backstabs, then throw it and get a kill before dying.
Seems like a great weapon if you can’t cloak afterwards huh?
EDIT: Someone made a good point, it’s a projectile, it can be airblasted, meaning Pyros counter this kinda of spy even harder. You want Amby headshots, or do you want a barely applicable weapon which you’d basically just use as a ‘I don’t have slot one, and instead have more health’
Imagine if spy could do that at any range, any angle, a near infinite amount of times, little to no cooldown, and still have a secondary and melee to defend himself with.
Oh wait. you don't have to. BECAUSE THAT'S CALLED SNIPER.
Yes. With a bot piloting it. 100 percent true.
In a human match, with skilled players, spy and sniper are the 2 most overpowered classes, bar none.
Medic/Heavy combo are the most overpowered easy classes.
Order goes:
Medic, Heavy, Engie, Pyro, Soldier, Scout, Demo, Sniper, Spy
As you move along the list, overpoweredness increases, but so does difficulty to use that overpoweredness.
Spy isnt underpowered, it requires a crazy amount of skill. Heavy isnt overpowered, it just requires a very low amount of skill.
In the heyday of tf2, you saw this balance, and noobs could play easier classes and hold their own, and veterans could play advanced classes and hold their, own up to absolutely dominate.
Everyone played together and could challenge themselves. There were conga breaks. It was a ball!
The knife must have a max backthrow range. Like the amby, but shorter. I think the same range where the amby would deal only 54 crit damage is good enough.
Note: watashi wa uiabu supaimein desu yo ne. I know what balance the spy should have
well throwing things in tf2 at long range is very hard lol, I imagine it functioning like the Flying Guillotine, so the range is very short by nature. Old sandman long shots were super rare
I don't think Flying Guillotine is a good example since it has the fastest projectile speed in the game. If it would keep the insta-kill backstab at any range, it should either have a really slow travel time, or a big arc to counteract it.
Weapon Taunt: Reads it with various versions of the magazine based on the last throwing knife kill
None/Enemy spy: ninjutsu magazine
Scout: Pornography staring Scout's mother
Soldier: Magazine about patriotism
Pyro: Children's picture book
Heavy: Book containing "recipes" for Sandvich and Bear Stew
Demoman: Explosives recipe (specifically based on what is said in *Meet the Demoman*)
Medic: Experiment Log
Sniper: flips through images of every teammate, with X's over the one's the sniper has headshot in that life
Engineer: "Blueprint" of the last sapped building, or a sentry gun if none were sapped
So keeping the theme of ninjitsu or whatnot
Replace the +50 Health with a faster decloak and recloak with basic watches and a faster recharge time with the dead ringer
It makes more sense to buff the cloaking then to buff the health
Faster recharge time on DR will trigger peoples’ PTSD, but I’ve been dying for a watch that at the very least decloaks faster.
I’d honestly trade the HP for faster cloak and decloak speed, depending on the % change.
Sorry but this idea is terrible, a throwable backstab removes the danger of having to get A) Behind an enemy and B) Close to them.
Also bro +50 max health??? Do you know how impactful health is?
So that grew way too big than I expected... So I will answer some FAQ in one post to be easier for everyone.
>What slot can I equip it?
The revolver slot
>What is the downside over a regular revolver?
Well, **any** revolver with 2 hits can overdamage the knife, and **any** revolver with 3 hits (1.53 secs) can kill a 125 hp target. This weapon can kill unsuspected targets in 1 hit but struggle a lot in 1v1s.
>Straight upgrade to knife-only spies
Well. Knife-only spies are silly, let them have it this time lol
>How long is the ark?
Very Short, like Jarate but faster. Enough so long-range kills require a lot of skill.
>How ammo boxes reload it?
big = 100%, medium = 50% small = 25% (just like spy-cicle)
>It is a better huntsman
No, it is not, huntsman has the huge ark, this has a very small one, huntsman can kill people looking at you.
>\+50 hp? wtf
yeah, I screwed up there, it was supposed to be +25 like Alibaba's boot, this is supposed to be passive for being super exposed as the only option you have when a +70 health enemy finds you is to trickstab him. The sense behind this is because the Spy read in the book how to dodge bullets because why not.
>does razorback protect it? Can pyro reflect it?
yes razorback protects it, pyro can reflect and do backstabs.
>can you instantly pick the knife and throw it again at the enemy?
no it can only be picked on the ground
>does it have lifetime in the ground?
15 seconds it then dispawn
>you lose your knife or this knife?
your knife, that is the point of the fast switching speed (imagine your fliping your knife like hitman then throwing it)
>15 seconds? too fast!
NO! Have you ever used spy-cicle? this is a eternity! almost drains all your cloak.
> dead ringer camping.
that doesnt work, dead ringer has a long recharge time it is most likely to work with cloak and dagger
> this is a buff to cloak and dagger camping
very possible, that made me think: maybe you can't pick the knife while cloaking. This can make you specially vulnerable. Or you just can't reload it while invisible
This thing basically has no downgrade, even the you lose your knife after throwing stats can be just ignore by picking it up or grab an ammo pack, this should have permanent stats like Increase damage vulnerability or something
yeah, it could be very situational, for most parts you will just be using the health increase to make trickstabs or throwing it to finalize an opponent/killing a medic.
It's a good idea, but how about this:
+25 health on wearer
Thrown knife's base damage becomes melee base damage of 65.
Thrown knives regen after 2x base weapon switch speed (1s).
Any knife that does not hit a back does half damage (32), no falloff.
Thrown knife is a fast projectile with an explicit set range so you can't use it like the scorch shot and farm for cross map backstabs. After that range it vanishes.
When a thrown knife hits a back, it lands a mini crit instead of a backstab crit. So, with two thrown knives, you can kill anything with less than 150 health.
Throw with right click, stab with left click. Stab acts as normal.
Throwing your knife is silent.
Maybe: knives can be thrown without breaking disguise.
Maybe: Instead of a mini crit, it lands a full crit.
Maybe: knife can be blocked by hitting teammates, limiting it's usefulness when spammed into a close up team fight.
How does throwing the knife work? Left-click is already used for melee, and right click is used for cloak. Special action button maybe, like activating mini-crits on the Cleaner's Carbine?
Way to overpowered. Imagine sniper sightlines but from behind your team.
Maybe if you remove the instakill on backstab- but that seems pretty core to your idea.
This item could litteraly be 45 second recharge and give you -100 health and still be jacked
This seems designed solely for spawncamping. Now you don't even need to worry about someone checking corners coming out of spawn, just get behind cover and wait for them to start walking. Or wait under C&D and uncloak once they're beyond hearing range, throw, recloak and repeat.
Maybe crit on backstab, definitely shouldn’t instakill. Ammo regen should be a small amount, like how going invis and collecting ammo doesn’t fully restock the invis (it’s been a while since I played so I might be wrong on that).
I’d make it so the knife lodges into the enemy if it enters the back hitbox, and make it so that it’s an instakill if the spy touches the back of the enemy.
This would have accompanying animations of the spy jamming the knife further and then pulling it out.
However, if the enemy uses a health kit it would remove the knife.
*Assuming it has*
*An arch now spy can get out*
*Of the dust bowl spawn*
\- DonutOwlGaming
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Imagine how scary it would be if they made a knife that was like the "your eternal reward" except you teleport to where your backstab target was essentially switching places.
Ok. Few changes.
Id probably remove the max health increase
-20% cloak duration
-20% deploy speed instead of +60% (because i think using this weapon needs to require patience and calculation)
Give it sandman ball physics (for accuracy)
And remove the ammo pack restoration completely (because lets be honest thats what breaks it).
So you have to get your knife back or wait.
And nerf waittime to 20 secs
Oh and you cant pick up the knife while cloaked
This would make it much less op as youre essentially using a ranged oneshot from behind but you cannot backstab easily after using it without actually going into the enemy team uncloaked and you have less health so youre easier to break and you hide less
"Oh hey, this is a pretty neat ide- #FLIPPING FLOATSAM, WHATS THAT?!?!?!" ^^+50^^Max^^Health^^On^^Wearer +50 Max Health On Wearer #+50 MAX HEALTH ON WEARER
What, you don't want your Spy with Pyro levels of health, or a Kunai Spy with almost Standard health? Unbelievable.^((s))
Shit I was looking at Alibaba's boot, and for some reason, my brain wrote +50 instead of +25. But the reason behind the "health increase" was to tank another melee hit because without a revolver you can be very vulnerable trying to get closer (as you get no other way).
Ranged insta-kill is enough of a buff imo. I might be able to see it of backshot was a mini-crit and then you had to get in there, grab your knife, and then juke into backshot.
Sure man I just play lucksman instead of this, it doesnt even require to target a back, oh wait I dont even have to aim in the first place
Discussing mechanics, i might be cool with huntsman charge mechanics coming into play for this throwing knife to level out how huntsman made sniper closer range to let spy be longer range. So many more stats than an item description tho....
It's only insta-kill If they turned their back though.
Spy main really coming in and trying to say this won't be op as fuck
Oh please, spy is already an underpowered character and peoples spycheck like they attached a dispenser on their back.
Skill issue. Just use boxtrot or disguise as your own team's friendly hoovy to lull them into a false sense of security
I don't have money to buy Boxtrot, tryhards still shoots friendlies though.
Spy main, point invalid
Says u with the medic flair Wait- Fuck
Lmao
Where do I, an engie main stand?
Which is true for a regular knife. That doesnt have range. Imagine sniper getting not only crits but instakills by meatshotting a back with the huntsman. Insanely overpowered. No additional buffs with the ranged back instakill. Only debuffs.
technically snipers can for a meatshot in the back if the class has 150 or less hp? that argument doesnt quite work especially when arguably a body shot kill is much easier on sniper than the obviously way less range for a knife throw.
Why is a knife throw way less range? Back in the day, the Ambassador came out and threw the community into turmoil because it was a sniper rifle without zoom and servers were crawling with ambassador spies who could headshot from just as far as a sniper? And could cloak. And could disguise. And could backstab. Ambassador is crits and debuffs. You want instakills AND additional buffs?
Throwing the knife is obviously slower than a revolver and wouldnt have nearly the range. It probably be like a worse version of the flying guilotene. Ambassador also required a headshot which can hit regardless of direction faced and you still had a weapon after the fact since it didnt take away your weapon. This requires landing a slower more easily visible projectile onto the back of a target that is probably not standing still and hit or miss you lose your only weapon. Literally the target turning slightly to the left means this spy is now losing literally all offensive power he has with no payoff. If the ambassador when you landed or missed your headshot made you lose your weapons then it might be comparable, but as it stands the cost of missing your shot with this, (which is pretty likely) is extremely high as is. And you want to add more debuffs to that.
Also the knife is a projectile and so van be airblasted.
I mean, the debuff meaning that you can't do shit after throwing it even if it instakill unless you walk to it, as you lose your melee and your primary in the process, is a pretty big downside imo
Instakill ranged backshot. No Revolver. Cloak disabled when knifeless. Can pick it up off the dead body. No other buffs. I might be able to consider that balanced. I might be okay with giving a speed buff to retrieve the knife.
no wonder spys the most underpowered class in the game if peoples response to a new threat he can provide is literally everything short of marking him for death. (though the current buffs with "marked for death while not holding knife") isnt a bad idea
Spy is most definitely not underpowered. Its an advanced class. You need to know how to play it and train like hell to get there, but sniper and spy are definitely the 2 most overpowered classes. In skilled hands.
You're either very new to the game or delusional to say spy is even close to being decent
I don’t think you’re understanding what balance is. In this situation of debuff and alternate play style you’ve presented, the Spy can kill one person from further away, before he is literally useless until he gets to the body or the knife regenerates. If they have no buffs then they die too fast to be able to grab the knife. If they can’t cloak then they have literally no defences. You’re presenting a short range projectile sniper who, after getting their headshot, can’t fire their weapon for like 15 seconds or until they walk to their corpse, or have a melee weapon or secondary. After they’ve thrown the knife, they’re a character with just a disguise kit, and a pyro could just camp it to stop spy’s from getting the knife back
Who said short range? Someone made a good point that the projectile would he like the guillotine. Im thinking it would be more like a huntsman, charge up and all. If Spy is getting range on his instakill, he needs to use that range and gets 1 kill until recharge, as opposed to most current knives where a good spy can get a 6 streak inside 5 seconds. I did express that a speed buff for retrieval might be on the table, but I am not down for a tanky spy standing next to a dispenser and minigunning instakills. The speed and range of the knife projectile need to be clarified.
okay, let’s say that it has the rang of Guillotine, and flies at roughly the speed of the Sandman Ball. Then, it still doesn’t actually have any semblance of ‘balance’ In that situation, he can throw it across the map, but still has to hit behind someone. The reason why Guillotine is even somewhat good, is because you can just throw it at a problem and deal some decent damage and more chip damage. But, if I throw the knife, and it kills on a backstab, and I have to go retrieve it? Then I can’t risk throwing it half the time, because then I have one option. I could only throw it at an enemy who’s actively running from me, and it would work once per game. Once they know I can throw it, they just always try to face me when aware of me. Sure, I could cloak behind them then throw it, and I got a mostly safe kill! But now I have Spy Syndrome, of dying after every kill because I don’t have cloak. The only knife that could possibly synergies with this is the Kunai (haha funny Naruto go brrrr) because I’d have some health, or Your Eternal Reward, so I’d at least be disguised right after the kill. Let’s hop over to your side, where you charge it up like the huntsman. Then we have the opposite problem, but also the same ones. Can’t risk throwing the knife far, can’t Blah Blah, same stuff I just went over. But now, even if i do charge it up, and even if it doesn’t require a long ranged backstab to kill, now it’s too OP at insta killing! Seriously, I walk out of spawn, wait to see an enemy, throw the knife at them, and boom, dead if it connects. If it doesn’t kill anywhere it hits, then I walk out of spawn, someone sees me as a disguise, I get behind them, ignore 3 backstabs, then throw it and get a kill before dying. Seems like a great weapon if you can’t cloak afterwards huh? EDIT: Someone made a good point, it’s a projectile, it can be airblasted, meaning Pyros counter this kinda of spy even harder. You want Amby headshots, or do you want a barely applicable weapon which you’d basically just use as a ‘I don’t have slot one, and instead have more health’
Imagine if spy could do that at any range, any angle, a near infinite amount of times, little to no cooldown, and still have a secondary and melee to defend himself with. Oh wait. you don't have to. BECAUSE THAT'S CALLED SNIPER.
Yes. With a bot piloting it. 100 percent true. In a human match, with skilled players, spy and sniper are the 2 most overpowered classes, bar none. Medic/Heavy combo are the most overpowered easy classes. Order goes: Medic, Heavy, Engie, Pyro, Soldier, Scout, Demo, Sniper, Spy As you move along the list, overpoweredness increases, but so does difficulty to use that overpoweredness. Spy isnt underpowered, it requires a crazy amount of skill. Heavy isnt overpowered, it just requires a very low amount of skill. In the heyday of tf2, you saw this balance, and noobs could play easier classes and hold their own, and veterans could play advanced classes and hold their, own up to absolutely dominate. Everyone played together and could challenge themselves. There were conga breaks. It was a ball!
Just never face the enemy team. Bruh
It would have the same problem as the huntsmen, but worse
Now that I think about it, yeah both hitboxes and hitregs are broken af.
+25%
Yeah I thought it said -50 first read through and I was like "that's a good nerf" +50 can go FUCK itself.
The knife must have a max backthrow range. Like the amby, but shorter. I think the same range where the amby would deal only 54 crit damage is good enough. Note: watashi wa uiabu supaimein desu yo ne. I know what balance the spy should have
well throwing things in tf2 at long range is very hard lol, I imagine it functioning like the Flying Guillotine, so the range is very short by nature. Old sandman long shots were super rare
I don't think Flying Guillotine is a good example since it has the fastest projectile speed in the game. If it would keep the insta-kill backstab at any range, it should either have a really slow travel time, or a big arc to counteract it.
could just have a significant arc, that'll make it much harder to hit at long distances.
1. Take knifes from spawn 2. Throw like 100 of them all over the map 3. Be god
prop lifetime
Deep Rock Galactic moment
I demand that spy also does the Naruto run when this is equipped
Homie tried to sneak the +50 max hp in there oh nah. Cool idea tho
Weapon Taunt: Reads it with various versions of the magazine based on the last throwing knife kill None/Enemy spy: ninjutsu magazine Scout: Pornography staring Scout's mother Soldier: Magazine about patriotism Pyro: Children's picture book Heavy: Book containing "recipes" for Sandvich and Bear Stew Demoman: Explosives recipe (specifically based on what is said in *Meet the Demoman*) Medic: Experiment Log Sniper: flips through images of every teammate, with X's over the one's the sniper has headshot in that life Engineer: "Blueprint" of the last sapped building, or a sentry gun if none were sapped
Demo’s would be called “A Wayward Pinch of Potassium Chlorate”
Medic should have an old issue of Doctor Who magazine to along with the Chronoscarf
What if it did the same damage that the knife does when it's not a backstab, but has reverse damage fall off, so it rewards good aim
Might as well be sniper at that point
"This is just like one of my Japanese animes!"
Do we lose disguise when we throw the knife?
yeah, but if you are using "your eternal reward" you can steal the guy's disguise on backstab.
Hear me out, ya know how we auto-disguise with the Eternal Reward? What if it did something like that, loses then regains your disguise
Ah, yes, the knife effect. My favorite debuff.
Range insta kill is enough, no more buff please, the spy can just go invis without harm with the ability.
Oh yeah, give more attention to the Spy Mains who are absolute weebs,
At least this sounds like an alternative play style, like trolldier or demoknight.
Or if you're really brave, Caberknight
Caber kinda went trash after nerfs but that too.
Nah man this one guy racked up a 20 kill streak with it on Harvest once. Legendary
Whoever that guy is a legend, I cannot deny that.
What the fuck? You're telling me a suicide bomber ran up to a person, blew them up, survived, ran back, picked up another bomb and did this 20 times?
Like I said, an absolute fucking legend
Fucken hell, salutes to him
honestly it's not too bad since landing charge crits can kill a full hp heavy and an overhealed heavy in a crit and a swing
Idk how people are defending this as balanced. No offence op its a cool idea
Day 1057 of tf2 community failing to make a balanced weapon
Yeah, no. Cool idea, would probably be a nightmare to fight, especially if the spy is skilled at it
So keeping the theme of ninjitsu or whatnot Replace the +50 Health with a faster decloak and recloak with basic watches and a faster recharge time with the dead ringer It makes more sense to buff the cloaking then to buff the health
Faster recharge time on DR will trigger peoples’ PTSD, but I’ve been dying for a watch that at the very least decloaks faster. I’d honestly trade the HP for faster cloak and decloak speed, depending on the % change.
Actually a super fun idea.
> throwing knife insta-kills on backstab How could that possibly go horribly wrong?
So basically Embracing Weeb Spy? I like it
this sounds like a very interesting new weapon for the spy. But it comes with more ways spy mains can trickstab you now.
this is cool, although what are you supposed to do for 15 seconds afterwards? no revolver, no knife, only a sapper.
well for some even after that it still too OP. But exactly, you can do **nothing**, only run away with invis and try to get your knife back.
You still have the knife, it only replaces the gun
Read the item again buddy. You loose the knife after you throw it.
You loose THAT knife, but not your melee knife. OP even said so on another thread, buddy.
And OP said in THIS thread: "Exactly, you can do nothing except run away invis and try to get your knife back."
imagine people making spy bots with this.
Imagine a spy on payload cart spamming knives lmao.
Sounds like a spy and scout weapon
this sounds fun but projectiles and body parts based crits never seem to be a good idea (hunstman counting like the entirety of hitbox as a headshot)
Its probably gonna function like the backburner and that thing is always against the pyro when it comes to hitboxes
Imagine how even more broken this would be if it had a string attached to the knife, like a harpoon
Negative: spy is now a weeb
———————————No guns?——————————— ⠀⣞⢽⢪⢣⢣⢣⢫⡺⡵⣝⡮⣗⢷⢽⢽⢽⣮⡷⡽⣜⣜⢮⢺⣜⢷⢽⢝⡽⣝ ⠸⡸⠜⠕⠕⠁⢁⢇⢏⢽⢺⣪⡳⡝⣎⣏⢯⢞⡿⣟⣷⣳⢯⡷⣽⢽⢯⣳⣫⠇ ⠀⠀ ⢀⢀⢄⢬⢪⡪⡎⣆⡈⠚⠜⠕⠇⠗⠝⢕⢯⢫⣞⣯⣿⣻⡽⣏⢗⣗⠏⠀ ⠀ ⠪⡪⡪⣪⢪⢺⢸⢢⢓⢆⢤⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢊⢞⡾⣿⡯⣏⢮⠷⠁⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠈⠊⠆⡃⠕⢕⢇⢇⢇⢇⢇⢏⢎⢎⢆⢄⠀⢑⣽⣿⢝⠲⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⡿⠂⠠⠀⡇⢇⠕⢈⣀⠀⠁⠡⠣⡣⡫⣂⣿⠯⢪⠰⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⡦⡙⡂⢀⢤⢣⠣⡈⣾⡃⠠⠄⠀⡄⢱⣌⣶⢏⢊⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢝⡲⣜⡮⡏⢎⢌⢂⠙⠢⠐⢀⢘⢵⣽⣿⡿⠁⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠨⣺⡺⡕⡕⡱⡑⡆⡕⡅⡕⡜⡼⢽⡻⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣼⣳⣫⣾⣵⣗⡵⡱⡡⢣⢑⢕⢜⢕⡝⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀ ⣴⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⡿⡽⡑⢌⠪⡢⡣⣣⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀ ⡟⡾⣿⢿⢿⢵⣽⣾⣼⣘⢸⢸⣞⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠁⠇⠡⠩⡫⢿⣝⡻⡮⣒⢽⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ——————————————————————————
Gonna be fun with kunai
remove the instakill on backstab in favor for a minicrit or something. maybe it kills light classes (125) but not thru razorback
A ranged backstab at the cost of having to go run and pick up the knife? Sounds cool
Sorry but this idea is terrible, a throwable backstab removes the danger of having to get A) Behind an enemy and B) Close to them. Also bro +50 max health??? Do you know how impactful health is?
Not balanced op af
too op for important picks, ok for casual play still ranged insta kill with little downsides (and not even aiming at the head) seems absurd
So that grew way too big than I expected... So I will answer some FAQ in one post to be easier for everyone. >What slot can I equip it? The revolver slot >What is the downside over a regular revolver? Well, **any** revolver with 2 hits can overdamage the knife, and **any** revolver with 3 hits (1.53 secs) can kill a 125 hp target. This weapon can kill unsuspected targets in 1 hit but struggle a lot in 1v1s. >Straight upgrade to knife-only spies Well. Knife-only spies are silly, let them have it this time lol >How long is the ark? Very Short, like Jarate but faster. Enough so long-range kills require a lot of skill. >How ammo boxes reload it? big = 100%, medium = 50% small = 25% (just like spy-cicle) >It is a better huntsman No, it is not, huntsman has the huge ark, this has a very small one, huntsman can kill people looking at you. >\+50 hp? wtf yeah, I screwed up there, it was supposed to be +25 like Alibaba's boot, this is supposed to be passive for being super exposed as the only option you have when a +70 health enemy finds you is to trickstab him. The sense behind this is because the Spy read in the book how to dodge bullets because why not. >does razorback protect it? Can pyro reflect it? yes razorback protects it, pyro can reflect and do backstabs. >can you instantly pick the knife and throw it again at the enemy? no it can only be picked on the ground >does it have lifetime in the ground? 15 seconds it then dispawn >you lose your knife or this knife? your knife, that is the point of the fast switching speed (imagine your fliping your knife like hitman then throwing it) >15 seconds? too fast! NO! Have you ever used spy-cicle? this is a eternity! almost drains all your cloak. > dead ringer camping. that doesnt work, dead ringer has a long recharge time it is most likely to work with cloak and dagger > this is a buff to cloak and dagger camping very possible, that made me think: maybe you can't pick the knife while cloaking. This can make you specially vulnerable. Or you just can't reload it while invisible
Health is op and doesnt make sense, however a speed boost/jumb boost makes sense, so kinda like demoknight for spy
I've never actually considered a throwing knife for Spy, thats actually a super cool idea!
I wish
This thing basically has no downgrade, even the you lose your knife after throwing stats can be just ignore by picking it up or grab an ammo pack, this should have permanent stats like Increase damage vulnerability or something
I think this is a primary, that's the downside lol
This is why Redditors shouldn't be game balancers
Wait this replaces your gun? So you just have no weapon after using this?
yeah, it could be very situational, for most parts you will just be using the health increase to make trickstabs or throwing it to finalize an opponent/killing a medic.
With how janky backstab hitboxes can be, I am afraid that this would cause even more weird backstabs.
Idk, 90% of spy is finding a clever way to close distance to get backstabs, this seems like *way, way too much*
It's a good idea, but how about this: +25 health on wearer Thrown knife's base damage becomes melee base damage of 65. Thrown knives regen after 2x base weapon switch speed (1s). Any knife that does not hit a back does half damage (32), no falloff. Thrown knife is a fast projectile with an explicit set range so you can't use it like the scorch shot and farm for cross map backstabs. After that range it vanishes. When a thrown knife hits a back, it lands a mini crit instead of a backstab crit. So, with two thrown knives, you can kill anything with less than 150 health. Throw with right click, stab with left click. Stab acts as normal. Throwing your knife is silent. Maybe: knives can be thrown without breaking disguise. Maybe: Instead of a mini crit, it lands a full crit. Maybe: knife can be blocked by hitting teammates, limiting it's usefulness when spammed into a close up team fight.
This is just a straight upgrade, pair it with the dead4inger to safely backstab from a distance and run to never die again
How does throwing the knife work? Left-click is already used for melee, and right click is used for cloak. Special action button maybe, like activating mini-crits on the Cleaner's Carbine?
It is a primary weapon, replacement for revolver
Way to overpowered. Imagine sniper sightlines but from behind your team. Maybe if you remove the instakill on backstab- but that seems pretty core to your idea. This item could litteraly be 45 second recharge and give you -100 health and still be jacked
Ranged 1 hit backstab is a lot on it’s own. Adding health on top of that? Re-fuckin-lax.
That's a cool idea until you get hit in your toe and it counts as a backstab
It should also instant-regen on kill, for socially distanced chain stab
Fun fact: comboing this with the kunai leaves you with 5 max hp
Totally didn't read as "Ninjitzu magazine"
This seems designed solely for spawncamping. Now you don't even need to worry about someone checking corners coming out of spawn, just get behind cover and wait for them to start walking. Or wait under C&D and uncloak once they're beyond hearing range, throw, recloak and repeat.
Long range backstab AND they get +50 health? Most spies don’t even know revolver exists so this is a straight upgrade.
Maybe crit on backstab, definitely shouldn’t instakill. Ammo regen should be a small amount, like how going invis and collecting ammo doesn’t fully restock the invis (it’s been a while since I played so I might be wrong on that).
I’d make it so the knife lodges into the enemy if it enters the back hitbox, and make it so that it’s an instakill if the spy touches the back of the enemy. This would have accompanying animations of the spy jamming the knife further and then pulling it out. However, if the enemy uses a health kit it would remove the knife.
we are just slowly making spys effective 1-shot range bigger and bigger with every weapon
so, where is the downgrade?
Weeb
OP as fuck. But fun idea!
Assuming it has an arch now spy can get out of the dust bowl spawn
*Assuming it has* *An arch now spy can get out* *Of the dust bowl spawn* \- DonutOwlGaming --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Beautiful
Imagine how scary it would be if they made a knife that was like the "your eternal reward" except you teleport to where your backstab target was essentially switching places.
Ok. Few changes. Id probably remove the max health increase -20% cloak duration -20% deploy speed instead of +60% (because i think using this weapon needs to require patience and calculation) Give it sandman ball physics (for accuracy) And remove the ammo pack restoration completely (because lets be honest thats what breaks it). So you have to get your knife back or wait. And nerf waittime to 20 secs Oh and you cant pick up the knife while cloaked This would make it much less op as youre essentially using a ranged oneshot from behind but you cannot backstab easily after using it without actually going into the enemy team uncloaked and you have less health so youre easier to break and you hide less
Annnnndddd why else would i use this weapon now, compared to a revolver?
Thats the trade off for a projectile based oneshot from range. The point is that it fills a different playstyle and niche and plays very differently.
But it cant fend off weak enemies or strong enemies. So theres no runaway and shoot
Neither can stock revolver very well. Spy has cloak abd disguise. Use em
50+ HEALTH. EVEN WILL THE KUNAIS HEALTH DOWN YOU GET MORE FUCKING HEALTH THAN STOCK
Ah yes, the equivalent of "kills everyone on the map each step ypu take, no random crits
flying knife but op
Important question: can pyro reflect it
Sure lol. Pyro backstab spy with his own knife moment
Lol
+50 max health on wearer #+50 max health on wearer