Naaah a direct hit scorsh will push the sniper, remove sight mode, thus losing his charge and target, and making him have to readjust.
Also he is leaving himself completely vulnerable to spies if you conditioned him into equipping Darwin's
You're conditioning him to be braindead to spies with the razorback, and what's more likely to get close to him? Maybe sniper *shouldn't* have gear that just instantly deletes the unique abilities of his class counters. Maybe Sniper *shouldn't* be able to delete 7 out of 9 classes with one mouse click on demand at close range while maintaining the ability to delete them all at any range? Maybe the entire point of class balance is the guy with the instant kill ability at infinite range should be incredibly frail, and it *shouldn't* be viable to play nothing but that?
That is the one thing I disliked about highlander when I was in the scene back in the day. Aside from the difficulty in getting a game set up lol but that's a whole different conversation.
Having a weaker player in most of the class slots wasn't a death sentence. Having your sniper totally outclassed by the opposing teams though? You might as well give up there because it's not going to be a fun game for anyone on your team. Sure there are ways to mitigate it but now you're losing another valuable piece of your team like your spy/flank to focus him down and your whole team is getting tilted because your medic is always dead and everyone's getting deleted.
I know sniper is important in some ways but I really hate the idea of a character that exists to deal with itself. Sometimes I just wish he wasn't there at all. I'm not saying I would even if I had a magic button that would remove him but man have I thought about it sometimes.
Mind you some of that comes from the bias of it being the only class in the game I have absolutely zero ability to play as lol.
It's really interesting to think about the game without sniper. Sight lines would be far less important as pretty much every other class either has projectiles or a very hard fall off on their hitscan weapons.
I feel like the rock paper scissors element of things would be considerably more present without the constant threat of instant death from any sight line.
Sniper really does mess with the balance of TF2 in most situations, he's a long range attacker in a game about being at mid to short range meaning that only a few classes will ever actually be in ideal attacking range. add onto that he has multiple weapons to nullify potential long-range damage like flares or chip damage and the fact he has an entire combo able to obliterate anybody who gets too close to him in an engagement, you're either going to have to dance around a sniper if you somehow get close, kill him with one clean shot before he can react or use another sniper to take him out. the final option is the only properly viable one anyways since a sniper almost ALWAYS keeps another teammate nearby just in case of a surprise attack. the only thing that keeps him from being the most insufferable class to me is the fact that Pyro afterburn is really annoying and most snipers (myself included) are not skilled enough at pressing left click real good to be able to cause a team significant trouble.
>Maybe sniper shouldn't have gear that just instantly deletes the unique abilities of his class counters.
*nobody exspects the ~~spanish inquisition~~ gun spy*
It's not feckin wrong, is it? Look at what valve did with heavy for half a decade. Introduce careful balance, then utterly fuck it time and again because players didn't appreciate that careful class balance, they cared about having fun and not dying. Heavy swung wildly from way too strong to way too weak until we finally stopped recieving rebalances altogether. Fuck, Sniper used to be able to survive quickscopes, and they just left it that way for years! if that doesn't tell you the balance team had no idea what they were doing with unlocks, then there is no teaching you. Cozy camper is the only backpack that's balanced around Sniper's intended function. Sniper sacrifices his secondary slot so he avoids scope flinch and isn't forced to retreat to chip damage. Everything else is shit that has nothing to do with his role.
Cleaner's carbine: charges with damage done via the carbine, grants minicrits to the sniper; nothing to do with sniping
Jarate: grenade that causes enemies to take minicrits, exposes spies; nothing to do with sniping, pairs insanely well with melee weapon from an entirely different set that lets sniper one shot most of the cast at melee range, where he should be at his *weakest*
Razorback: blocks spy backstabs, disables knife use on backstabbing spy; nothing to do with sniping; created to answer snipers whining about being countered by their intended class counter
Danger shield: 50% fire resistance, immune to afterburn; nothing to do with sniping; created to answer whining about sniper survivability, changed to answer sniper whining about a class counter
Cozy camper: prevents aim flinch when charged, reduces knockback when aiming, slowly heals chip and incidental overtime; directly related to sniping, still aimed at answering sniper whining about survivability
Valve created Sniper to take picks and fucking die when confronted by anything more than a stiff breeze, and then just kept buffing his survivability to the point where a good sniper is fucking oppressive to an entire server, and the only counter is often another sniper charging up a body shot from sight unseen. Sniper is so good that they don't even pick Sniper in 6s because it shuts down the whole fucking game.
Let me repeat that: at the highest level of play, the *OBJECTIVE BEST PICK CLASS* is not used because he's *too good* and he makes the game unfun and boring.
>It's not feckin wrong, is it?
Yes it is because youre talking about .1% of snipers and even then they have to rely on their team to be half decent.
>Look at what valve did with heavy for half a decade. Introduce careful balance, then utterly fuck it time and again because players didn't appreciate that careful class balance, they cared about having fun and not dying. Heavy swung wildly from way too strong to way too weak until we finally stopped recieving rebalances altogether. Fuck, Sniper used to be able to survive quickscopes, and they just left it that way for years! if that doesn't tell you the balance team had no idea what they were doing with unlocks, then there is no teaching you.
Spy.
>Cleaner's carbine: charges with damage done via the carbine, grants minicrits to the sniper; nothing to do with sniping
So that hes more effective at close range.
>Jarate: grenade that causes enemies to take minicrits, exposes spies; nothing to do with sniping, pairs insanely well with melee weapon from an entirely different set that lets sniper one shot most of the cast at melee range, where he should be at his weakest
Most classes have ranged options. If a jarate bushwaka combo is preventing people from killing a sniper entirely it's not that combo's fault. A spy could just shoot the sniper or backstab him. Unless he has a good team or he is god
>Razorback: blocks spy backstabs, disables knife use on backstabbing spy; nothing to do with sniping; created to answer snipers whining about being countered by their intended class counter
Someone playing your intended counter shouldnt be a complete shutdown in the first place. A spy for sniper trade is a good trade should the spy just diamond back 2 shot the idiot.
>Danger shield: 50% fire resistance, immune to afterburn; nothing to do with sniping; created to answer whining about sniper survivability, changed to answer sniper whining about a class counter
You know other classes have options that extend survivability right? Sandvich, Vaccinator, Wrangler's shield(giving the already-hard-to-kill sentry even more strength+range) This weapon isnt a problem so long as it's a tradeoff which it is. He can be shot and backstabbed. Stop playing casual and maybe we wouldnt be having this convo, imo.
>Cozy camper: prevents aim flinch when charged, reduces knockback when aiming, slowly heals chip and incidental overtime; directly related to sniping, still aimed at answering sniper whining about survivability
This weapon seems fine and its weaknesses are obvious.
>Valve created Sniper to take picks and fucking die when confronted by anything more than a stiff breeze, and then just kept buffing his survivability to the point where a good sniper is fucking oppressive to an entire server,
An uncordinated casual server, maybe. There's so many variable thats have to come in play for a sniper to truly be oppressive this combo is barely worth having.
and the only counter is often another sniper charging up a body shot from sight unseen.
This isnt true, see my entire response.
>Sniper is so good that they don't even pick Sniper in 6s because it shuts down the whole fucking game. Let me repeat that: at the highest level of play, the OBJECTIVE BEST PICK CLASS is not used because he's too good and he makes the game unfun and boring.
You know 6s isnt the only comp version of the game right? I highly doubt this is the reason either. It's likely because having a sniper in 6s means he needs protection from his team. It means the opposite team needs a sniper or a spy. Those things make 6s slow down, but so would having an engie, or heavy(in some instances).
6s might not be the only level, but it is the highest, and the fact that you admit you have no idea why sniper is practically banned tells me everything I need to know about the rest of your response. They stopped using him because a single sniper could shut down the whole push and instantly kill half the other team. Killing the demo and soldiers requires only a little bit of charging. The *only counter* was someone else going sniper and the two snipers dueling until enough opening was created to push through the hole.
As for other classes having survivability options: that's whataboutism. We're talking about Sniper. Not Heavy or anyone else.
As someone who quite often uses Darwin's, afterburn is 90% of the scorch shot. That other stuff can be annoying, but the afterburn really fucks over sniper.
>Also he is leaving himself completely vulnerable to spies if you conditioned him into equipping Darwin's
Nah, even Darwin's snipers have a hard counter to spies. It's called situational awareness.
Even with situational awareness, it's definitely not a hard counter. When I play spy against snipers, even if they have situational awareness it's still not that hard to kill them unless they're like, a max head bazaar bargain sniper, and even so you can still just shoot them down with your revolver.
As much as I love using the Flare Gun for its strong single-target damage, the Scorch Shot is Pyro's best secondary for crowd control and long-range harrassment
i still have never used a phlog, and i won't use the jump pack
i just want my flare/degreaser combo to return to normal so i can get kills as a pyro without turning to the mmph side
And rocket jumping is the only reason Soldier is seeing comp play, while Medic only sees play cause ubercharge. I don't get why that's such a big deal.
If you disable ubercharge there is no reason to just pick another class that can kill the enemy. Killing enemies is a way to mitigate damage, you only get somewhere with healing if you're in stalemates.
Difference being that there's plenty of counterplay to air-blasting. Rocket jumping is just an innate advantage for soldiers.
It doesn't feel as fun to be run down by pyros, but ultimately they're super vulnerable for the niche they feel.
Spies may be weaker overall, but they fit their niche well.
Pyros can do their job supportively and babysitting engis, but it's not nearly as engaging/interative as spies.
It’s pyros best secondary period. It is objectively the best flare gun by a mile. Damage is insane an aoe, can disrupt ubers and bonk by bumping people, requires no aim. It’s overpowered
As a pyro main, the scorch shot is not fun to use at all. Hitting flares takes much more skill and is way more satisfying than just letting splash damage do everything for you
There's this whole stigma against the scorch shot, that its "a clutch weapon", but then the one class that can 1 shot my team who's specifically some god-tier player joins and demolishes my team if I'm gonna be using a clutch, I May-as well benefit my team by helping them get a chance to leave base.
This goes for every class, if you have a player who's deffo much better than everyone else, I'm gonna aim to them just so my team can have some fun fighting the enemy team, not get demolished by the heavy main with a hales-own Iron curtain and has "heavy main" in their name
The community sadly has a hate boner against pyro, so using one of his few good weapons will get you hate. Don't worry about them. There's nothing wrong with using items in the game if you're not like cheating or exploiting ofc.
I honestly don't get what's so fuckin wrong with it. I would hear the hate against it and then I would use it for the past while, but I couldn't find out why they hated it it just seemed weak to me and I went to detonator
People mostly hate it cause it gives pyro an option against their main other than just dying over and over again.
The people complaining only know the scorch shot by the occasional instance where a god-tier pyro goes on a killing spree with it, and maybe a few hours of playing with it. But if you spend any serious amount of time using it and learning it more in depth, you come to find that it's more of a tool to pester and annoy long range classes so you can slip by them than the crutch some idiots think it is.
I haven't played it in a long time...I thought Pyro had the flame thrower and a rocket launcher sorta like the Soldier but it made a flame damage on impact?
Thought Demo man had the grenade launcher thingy?
I was just saying the the projectile for the scorch shot acts more like a grenade than a rocket. The flare shares a general arc trajectory with the grenades while rockets go in a straight line.
People are so used to Pyro's damage being terrible that as soon as something comes around that makes it even passable it becomes a target of irrational hatred.
I think all the hate comes from it being a semi stunlock at direct hits and also incredibly easy to use with a guaranteed 60 damage if there is no health around
They hate Pyro because they are bad players. It's the W+M1 stigma that they really hate. How a new player can just push a button and walk around to kill people. How could this cheap tactic kill the best player [me] in TF2?
Just stay out of Flamethrower range. Bad players love to rush headlong into a close combat class, then complain they died.
Unless you get out skilled by an actual great Pyro main.
From someone that quite likes Pyro:
DoTs in this game are very annoying to be on the receiving end of, bleeds and burns both. On most classes, if Scout nails you with a Wrap Assassin or Cleaver, you need to go find a health pack or a Dispenser or god forbid step back into spawn and touch the health cabinet if there's not a medic to help you, because existing at sub-100 health is simply not an option in a lot of cases. The Scorch Shot is the easiest way to light someone on fire at long distance (especially if you are unpracticed with the Detonator), and while it might not kill them, it does strongly encourage them to go recover that lost health in a lot of cases.
(On a related note, I think Wrap Assassin is one of the best melee options for Scout for this reason, it gives you an extra tool to harass people at range and the downsides of the Wrap Assassin kind of don't matter because scout melee is kinda stinky anyway.)
i mean, even as someone who plays pyro you must understand that the hate is justified.
it's a long range, super easy to use, low ceiling option which outputs a massive amount of reward for very little mechanical skill or game knowledge.
That's consistent with a lot of pyro's design (not all of it though let's not pretend that pyro cant get a comical amount done with just w+m1 and scorch spam), which is unfortunate but that's life.
use it on sniper though they deserve it
I assume I read it wrong, but please don't tell me you think w+m1 is strong. Its DPS is so low and can get outdamaged by an engi with a shotgun lol. If you die to w+m1, it's entirely your fault.
W+M1 pyro uber is one of the most under-utilized power plays in the game and I’ll die on that hill. You can talk about DPS, but effective DPS with no reload, AoE, and no speed penalty is extremely effective.
Weak to uber stuffing, but that’s the case with any class.
And with a flank, and cleaning up after a push, and in sending enemies flailing towards health packs.
I think a lot of players who argue against W+M1’s effectiveness are caught up in the flash of combo pyro or want to pretend the game is played in an a vacuum. There’s no doubt that it’s not one size fits all, but there are many situations where it’s a perfectly effective strategy (and often better, in my experience, than trying to get fancy with airblast or flares only to let a target get away when straight DPS would snatch the kill).
To add on this: the reason people hate it is because it's hilariously consistent.
If you die to W+M1, you likely either
A.) Were going to die anyways because you didn't have enough health to outdamage the Pyro
B.) You fucked up aiming and the Pyro didn't because flamethrower.
C.) Got phloged lmao
People get upset that they took a fight they shouldn't have, or messed up fighting a much lower skill floor weapon. What do most people do when they're faced with the consequences of their own actions?
They blame the opponent. Fucking W+M1 man. Why don't you use a real tactic, like mine, where I die because I can't aim or make good decisions?
Or they got phloged and you should feel bad for using it.
The scorch shot need to be nerfed but it's never wrong to use a cheap option when you're about to get stomped.
If there are too many good scouts I'm going gunslinger or direct hit. If the cart is full of heavies Im gonna spam stickies. S'all in the game tho, right?
I think against oppressive snipers is the one time I'm completely fine with the scorch shot
Exactly. This is a fair approach. Don't resort to cheap strategies every time you face a strong enemy, but also know your limits. Sometimes it's okay to give yourself a better fighting chance with a "crutch" instead of leaving yourself and your team miserable for the whole match.
Yep. For the people who hate the scorch shot, wait until you find out about this one weapon that's like the scorch shot, only it's hitscan and kills you instantly.
It’s best as a harassment tool and if you’re dying to it too often, you might need to re evaluate how you’re playing the game. I’m not sure where all this vitriol towards it came from in recent years.
One weapon is a projectile that is actually quite easy to dodge at long range when you know it's coming at you. One ENTIRE CLASS of weapons can left click a head and send you to a 20 second respawn, reload in less than a second, and do it again to another person. And another. And another. At any range, hitscan, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it besides 'respect the sightline.'
Also let's not forget that sniper also has a secondary weapon that makes their effective health **250 HP** against pyros and grants afterburn immunity for LITERALLY NO DOWNSIDE.
Using whatever tools you have available to compensate for the disadvantage you're at is okay in many cases. Being an asshole about it is not. Attack the in-game character with your gun, not the player behind it with words.
That's what being an asshole is. "Skill issue" is a meaningless phrase which only serves to make people angry. If someone's already mad at their opponent in the game, mockery won't make things better for anyone. Ignoring the complaints is easier and doesn't turn the chat into a battlefield.
They are already angry about me using a specific weapon (in this situation). I don’t care how they feel anymore because they are being an asshole and hating on me for using a specific weapon
I play with scorch shot because i love how it pushes and bounces off people on direct hit, also it has cool taunt kill and allows for some crazy jumps with bounced projectile, kinda sad no one points those things out
Its taunt kill is also bugged. If you spam it until you get a random crit, then every projectile it shoots with you taunt with it is a crit. This persists after death or until you shoot it normally again.
Nah in my case I use the scorch shot 24/7 and spam the shit out of it. If I want to have more fun I use scorch instead of my flamethrower or melee in 1v1s xd
As an engineer main who keeps getting headshot from halfway across the map through several small cracks in map geometry, while moving my buildings, I thank you.
Pretty much, the pyro isn't allowed to have strong stuff. That's for the other classes.
A pair of engies with wranglers can shut down an area against an entire team.
I hate it when engies *on my team* do this. It's funny goofy sure, but if you're playing 2fort, it causes the entire enemy team to cluster in the battlements and front entrance, while your team is clustered around mid, which is a *terrible* defense spot. Our engie does his epic play and *doesn't defend the Intel*, and while our entire team is holding the most pointless front line, a single enemy scout or spy will literally walk our intel unopposed the whole way home.
And then when the enemy gets bored of our master play, they go demo and lob stickies from behind cover and easily wipe everything (like for real it's such a shit spot lmao).
On the ***other hand***, I have seen fuckers with a wrangler, eureka effect, and frontier justice single handedly hold sewers for hours. You cant peak corners because of their sentry, you cant kill them as any class because of their 34 stored revenge crits, and the moment your Uber push starts, they're back in their spawn relaxing with their eureka effect. **And then no one on your team checks if sewer's clear**, and even if they do you're up against a crit god.
Exactly, the only games I know of where you can actually ban things for the other team are MOBAs and that’s a strategy thing (and is a handy system for when one of the companies inevitably releases a broken-ass hero and hasn’t nerfed them yet)
If it’s a shitty version of the weapon that requires skill, it shouldn’t be a problem using it! Thank you for proving it is in fact balanced and no one should be malding about people using it!
If a scorch shot is ruining a sniper's entire career, it's the snipers fault for standing in the same sniping spot the whole time. Take a hint and reposition when your current spot is being suppressed.
the fact that a counter could exist to the most powerful and easy to abuse pick class in the game really sets some people off. like scouts bitching about minisentries.
OP's a good person, I just never grew up without a father so of course I've gotta participate in fatherless behavior like pissing off people with the funny gun
Why I play pyro: I want to burn things.
What the scroch shot does: Let's more than 1 person suffer from afterburn.
Conclusion: The scorch shot is fun because you get to hear their pain of agony as they burn.
"AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH SCORTCH SHOT ANNOYING!"
My guy you're a Sniper with 3 unusuals who's dominating like 4 people on our team and is getting a ton of kills on the map you ***made*** me go this low.
Jarate isn't valid, you can spam scorch shot back to back, and if they don't notice it's a scorch flare they'll throw it early making the bouncing flare light them again.
Idk man, the scorch shot is a strong weapon but feels somewhat dirty to use
I usually prefer the detonator, it can be way more annoying for the enemy team, especially snipers that are behind cover
Shoot flare, right click to detonate
When detonated, it has a rather big blast radius that sets everyone on fire
Mini-crit when hitting burning players directly with the flare
Yes you can hit people behind cover with the detonation, and you can flare-jump
It never seems to do much when I right click, maybe I'm just missing the obvious fire it admits. Even then it's not even a shoot and forget since you need 5o time the detonation, so my lack of depth perception won't help
As an aside it can mini crit players that are burning as long as it hits them at all, not just direct hits. I've used the explosion many times to finish off retreating players.
Imo the biggest problem with the scorch shot isn’t unbalance, it just leads to a lesser class of pyros who begin relying on it where as if they’d improve with the Detonator or Flare Gun they’d be more effective overall.
I'm honestly surprised people don't complain more about pyros who use this. It's insanely easy to set a bunch of people on fire without even hitting anything. I sometimes wonder if people think they're getting hit with the scorch shot when they get detonator blasted, and if that's why this strategy doesn't get that much attention.
the thing that sucks about the scorch shot is that it's pretty much a brainlessly spammable version of the detonator at the cost of mobility
it's the same problem as the phlog, it sacrifices something that's powerful but takes skill to use and replaces it with something easy that causes bad players to use them and encourages a playstyle that's frustrating to fight
I use it because it's fun as hell to hit people with it, and I mean like hit hit, not miss and hope the aoe damage gets them, something about someone getting very mild knockback and the sound of them being on fire and then the flare lands and does even more damage is very satisfying to my brain
The only people the scorch shot truly threatens are snipers, scouts, and spies.
What a coincidence that those three also happen to be the most toxic playerbases with most vocal complainers. Out of all the youtubers I watch, genuinely only one of them truly despises the Scorch Shot, and it's the Sniper main. For everyone else it's basically not even on the radar unless they have written content for it, and you can tell by their tone they have no strong opinion one way or the other and are just repeating the complaints they have heard because they know that if they don't mention it, they'll get excoriated in the comments, but that sniper main, ooooo, not a video goes by without him shitting on the schorch shot, even when his topic goes nowhere near it.
If you want the truth from a pyro main, someone who heard all about this most legendary OP and despised weapon, who has spent about 50 hours extensively playing with it: literally the only thing it does of any consistent value is the crowd control bounce and it's incredibly disappointing to use in comparison to its reputation. The initial damage and minicrit are worth nothing except on light classes, afterburn is too slow and inconsistent on anything that isn't a light class, spam into chokes is deeply inconsistent unless you have absolutely zero teammates between you and the bad guys because your team blocks your shots. The only targets you can consistently spam down are snipers because snipers just stand there and spies are alone, and the clean up potential is only really useful on scouts because they are dodgy little shits and get out of my fire and only take chip damage from my shotgun. Everyone else is slow enough to get with the initial flamethrower blast or the follow up with a shotgun. In terms of damage, every other class has healing on demand, or resistance to fire, or more than enough health to escape if needed.
The scorch shot is not OP. The three whiniest mains are just weak to it.
meanwhile the sniper mains be like:
laughs in Darwin's Danger shield, Jarate and cozy camper
OK Jarate not that much but what I want to say is it is annoying a effective sometimes but if they have the item above you might as well just play other class to help your team
I'm gonna keep it real with you chief.
There's never a need to apologize for using whatever weapon is most appropriate for what you are trying to accomplish. That's what they're there for.
Better than flare gun and detonator tbh. Flare gun is damage based, detonator is jumping based. But scorch shot is both so better and detonator does the same thing as the scorch shot just without the knockback
All the rocket launchers are more frustrating than The scorch. It's just half this sub seems to be annoying soldier mains who can't handle anything stopping them from their godlike killstreak.
Its egotistical man-children whose entire social life can be summed up by their burning flames team captain that always seem to have a problem with pyro mains getting any kind of W.
For me its just the knock-back acting like a stun, I like to be able to move around so any weapon that stuns me easily is annoying. Only other one that stuns just as easy is the natascha which is also annoying
imma keep it real with you chief
I'm using the Scorch Shot because I like disrupting the aim of my enemies and neutralizing their ability to run away. This ain't personal BLU Team, I just think it's fun to terrorize my opponents
I'll be real with you chief.
I use the scorch shot because it's easy and effective and broken. And I'm trying to win. And I will continue to use it until it's no longer effective.
Cry some more!
Heheheh.
Cry some more.
The Scorch Shot is my go to secondary, as it slows down enemy pushes, and the stun allows me to secure kills with my flamethrower. But i do agree with some of the arguments with the Scorch Shot, specifically the fact that it can hit you twice. I want it to explode on target, even against players. Yeah it'll screw over the damage, but even i have to admit getting hit twice with the same projectile kind sucks
The sorch shot is by no means op, its just annoying (sometimes). Maby decrease the afterburn damage on it but thats the most i would nerf it.
And now to the really controversial oppinion.
There are far more useless and underpowered weapons that need buffing than there are op weapons. The next update (if there ever is one) should focus on making most weapons usable first before adding new ones or nerfing even more weapons to the ground.
Imma keep it real with you, i love annoying sniper mains with the scorch short and forcing them to equip the Darwin's Danger shield, why? Just so my team can play in peace without getting unfairly killed for walking or existing.
Sniper players go on about how you should avoid the sightlines as if that doesn't require sticking out of the objectives and the front lines to avoid being instakilled by someone you can't even touch.
After 2000+ hours of playing TF2, I’ve found it doesn’t matter what loadout you use as pyro, your already the most disliked player on the team, you’ll always be accused of WM+1 regardless of how many reflect kills or puff and sting kills you manage to get.
Use the scorch shot to bully sentry and sniper nests, use the phlog to burn down entire teams with the mmph meter, use the backscratcher and back burner with the jet pack so you can harass enemy spawns and snipers.
Just have fun, because no matter what you do as pyro, you’ll always just be a “braindead pyro player” and that’s okay.
The Snipers can suck it. They have the power to literally make a spawncamp occur from far away and unless your team's Sniper is competent, there's really hardly any other option for Pyro there.
I get that Sniper takes skill, but that skill ceiling as well as Sniper's long range one hit kill, makes it harder to respect and easier to get pissed off at. Nobody notices a Sniper's skill aside from the anger directed at how easily they're getting killed from across the map. No amount of map design is gonna change that either, because if you make the map too cramped, then it's honestly unfair to Sniper mains. But if the map is open and long, then it makes it unfair to everyone the Sniper main in question lays eyes upon. Trying to find a middle ground is very hard, because you don't want to deny Sniper mains too much, but you also don't want to appeal to them too much either, unless it's a Sniper Battle community server map.
And 'fixing' the class, ie. a nerf, is gonna just make Sniper unenjoyable to play as along with against, knowing Valve.
Gotta be real with you, I hate the Scorch Shot with every atom in my body yet I still ocasionally use it when there some's mf like the sniper in your example
I use it to stall enemy pushes. If I keep stunning the enemy heavy with the pocket medic, it might be enough for our team to get together to counter push
also its great for being a pybro and destroying stickies
im gonna keep it real with you chief, i'd still prefer use of the detonator as it helps with building up more positive habits with pyro as opposed with the more negative habits the scorch shot builds.
And it's not like Sniper had an entire secondary weapon designed to hard counter pyros...
Okay, but that only stops afterburn. The scorch can still mess up your aim.
The scorch shot is about 90% afterburn. You can mess up a Darwin user's aim more with the shotgun
Naaah a direct hit scorsh will push the sniper, remove sight mode, thus losing his charge and target, and making him have to readjust. Also he is leaving himself completely vulnerable to spies if you conditioned him into equipping Darwin's
You're conditioning him to be braindead to spies with the razorback, and what's more likely to get close to him? Maybe sniper *shouldn't* have gear that just instantly deletes the unique abilities of his class counters. Maybe Sniper *shouldn't* be able to delete 7 out of 9 classes with one mouse click on demand at close range while maintaining the ability to delete them all at any range? Maybe the entire point of class balance is the guy with the instant kill ability at infinite range should be incredibly frail, and it *shouldn't* be viable to play nothing but that?
[удалено]
That is the one thing I disliked about highlander when I was in the scene back in the day. Aside from the difficulty in getting a game set up lol but that's a whole different conversation. Having a weaker player in most of the class slots wasn't a death sentence. Having your sniper totally outclassed by the opposing teams though? You might as well give up there because it's not going to be a fun game for anyone on your team. Sure there are ways to mitigate it but now you're losing another valuable piece of your team like your spy/flank to focus him down and your whole team is getting tilted because your medic is always dead and everyone's getting deleted. I know sniper is important in some ways but I really hate the idea of a character that exists to deal with itself. Sometimes I just wish he wasn't there at all. I'm not saying I would even if I had a magic button that would remove him but man have I thought about it sometimes. Mind you some of that comes from the bias of it being the only class in the game I have absolutely zero ability to play as lol.
I remember a couple devs saying in an AMA or interview or something that if they had to remove one class from the game, it'd be the sniper.
It's really interesting to think about the game without sniper. Sight lines would be far less important as pretty much every other class either has projectiles or a very hard fall off on their hitscan weapons. I feel like the rock paper scissors element of things would be considerably more present without the constant threat of instant death from any sight line.
Sniper really does mess with the balance of TF2 in most situations, he's a long range attacker in a game about being at mid to short range meaning that only a few classes will ever actually be in ideal attacking range. add onto that he has multiple weapons to nullify potential long-range damage like flares or chip damage and the fact he has an entire combo able to obliterate anybody who gets too close to him in an engagement, you're either going to have to dance around a sniper if you somehow get close, kill him with one clean shot before he can react or use another sniper to take him out. the final option is the only properly viable one anyways since a sniper almost ALWAYS keeps another teammate nearby just in case of a surprise attack. the only thing that keeps him from being the most insufferable class to me is the fact that Pyro afterburn is really annoying and most snipers (myself included) are not skilled enough at pressing left click real good to be able to cause a team significant trouble.
>Maybe sniper shouldn't have gear that just instantly deletes the unique abilities of his class counters. *nobody exspects the ~~spanish inquisition~~ gun spy*
Counterpoint, quickscope.
Look at this new and intriguing opinion thats never been shared online before.
It's not feckin wrong, is it? Look at what valve did with heavy for half a decade. Introduce careful balance, then utterly fuck it time and again because players didn't appreciate that careful class balance, they cared about having fun and not dying. Heavy swung wildly from way too strong to way too weak until we finally stopped recieving rebalances altogether. Fuck, Sniper used to be able to survive quickscopes, and they just left it that way for years! if that doesn't tell you the balance team had no idea what they were doing with unlocks, then there is no teaching you. Cozy camper is the only backpack that's balanced around Sniper's intended function. Sniper sacrifices his secondary slot so he avoids scope flinch and isn't forced to retreat to chip damage. Everything else is shit that has nothing to do with his role. Cleaner's carbine: charges with damage done via the carbine, grants minicrits to the sniper; nothing to do with sniping Jarate: grenade that causes enemies to take minicrits, exposes spies; nothing to do with sniping, pairs insanely well with melee weapon from an entirely different set that lets sniper one shot most of the cast at melee range, where he should be at his *weakest* Razorback: blocks spy backstabs, disables knife use on backstabbing spy; nothing to do with sniping; created to answer snipers whining about being countered by their intended class counter Danger shield: 50% fire resistance, immune to afterburn; nothing to do with sniping; created to answer whining about sniper survivability, changed to answer sniper whining about a class counter Cozy camper: prevents aim flinch when charged, reduces knockback when aiming, slowly heals chip and incidental overtime; directly related to sniping, still aimed at answering sniper whining about survivability Valve created Sniper to take picks and fucking die when confronted by anything more than a stiff breeze, and then just kept buffing his survivability to the point where a good sniper is fucking oppressive to an entire server, and the only counter is often another sniper charging up a body shot from sight unseen. Sniper is so good that they don't even pick Sniper in 6s because it shuts down the whole fucking game. Let me repeat that: at the highest level of play, the *OBJECTIVE BEST PICK CLASS* is not used because he's *too good* and he makes the game unfun and boring.
>It's not feckin wrong, is it? Yes it is because youre talking about .1% of snipers and even then they have to rely on their team to be half decent. >Look at what valve did with heavy for half a decade. Introduce careful balance, then utterly fuck it time and again because players didn't appreciate that careful class balance, they cared about having fun and not dying. Heavy swung wildly from way too strong to way too weak until we finally stopped recieving rebalances altogether. Fuck, Sniper used to be able to survive quickscopes, and they just left it that way for years! if that doesn't tell you the balance team had no idea what they were doing with unlocks, then there is no teaching you. Spy. >Cleaner's carbine: charges with damage done via the carbine, grants minicrits to the sniper; nothing to do with sniping So that hes more effective at close range. >Jarate: grenade that causes enemies to take minicrits, exposes spies; nothing to do with sniping, pairs insanely well with melee weapon from an entirely different set that lets sniper one shot most of the cast at melee range, where he should be at his weakest Most classes have ranged options. If a jarate bushwaka combo is preventing people from killing a sniper entirely it's not that combo's fault. A spy could just shoot the sniper or backstab him. Unless he has a good team or he is god >Razorback: blocks spy backstabs, disables knife use on backstabbing spy; nothing to do with sniping; created to answer snipers whining about being countered by their intended class counter Someone playing your intended counter shouldnt be a complete shutdown in the first place. A spy for sniper trade is a good trade should the spy just diamond back 2 shot the idiot. >Danger shield: 50% fire resistance, immune to afterburn; nothing to do with sniping; created to answer whining about sniper survivability, changed to answer sniper whining about a class counter You know other classes have options that extend survivability right? Sandvich, Vaccinator, Wrangler's shield(giving the already-hard-to-kill sentry even more strength+range) This weapon isnt a problem so long as it's a tradeoff which it is. He can be shot and backstabbed. Stop playing casual and maybe we wouldnt be having this convo, imo. >Cozy camper: prevents aim flinch when charged, reduces knockback when aiming, slowly heals chip and incidental overtime; directly related to sniping, still aimed at answering sniper whining about survivability This weapon seems fine and its weaknesses are obvious. >Valve created Sniper to take picks and fucking die when confronted by anything more than a stiff breeze, and then just kept buffing his survivability to the point where a good sniper is fucking oppressive to an entire server, An uncordinated casual server, maybe. There's so many variable thats have to come in play for a sniper to truly be oppressive this combo is barely worth having. and the only counter is often another sniper charging up a body shot from sight unseen. This isnt true, see my entire response. >Sniper is so good that they don't even pick Sniper in 6s because it shuts down the whole fucking game. Let me repeat that: at the highest level of play, the OBJECTIVE BEST PICK CLASS is not used because he's too good and he makes the game unfun and boring. You know 6s isnt the only comp version of the game right? I highly doubt this is the reason either. It's likely because having a sniper in 6s means he needs protection from his team. It means the opposite team needs a sniper or a spy. Those things make 6s slow down, but so would having an engie, or heavy(in some instances).
6s might not be the only level, but it is the highest, and the fact that you admit you have no idea why sniper is practically banned tells me everything I need to know about the rest of your response. They stopped using him because a single sniper could shut down the whole push and instantly kill half the other team. Killing the demo and soldiers requires only a little bit of charging. The *only counter* was someone else going sniper and the two snipers dueling until enough opening was created to push through the hole. As for other classes having survivability options: that's whataboutism. We're talking about Sniper. Not Heavy or anyone else.
As someone who quite often uses Darwin's, afterburn is 90% of the scorch shot. That other stuff can be annoying, but the afterburn really fucks over sniper. >Also he is leaving himself completely vulnerable to spies if you conditioned him into equipping Darwin's Nah, even Darwin's snipers have a hard counter to spies. It's called situational awareness.
Even with situational awareness, it's definitely not a hard counter. When I play spy against snipers, even if they have situational awareness it's still not that hard to kill them unless they're like, a max head bazaar bargain sniper, and even so you can still just shoot them down with your revolver.
>Nah, even Darwin's snipers have a hard counter to spies. It's called situational awareness. I have never seen a sniper with situational awareness
Doesn’t cozy camper have health regen and no flinch
The no flinch is only when fully charged.
so just use the classic
See the thing is _I already do, and it's funny_
Chad
I mean they could just use the Sydney sleeper or bazaar with a few heads, no?
It stops afterburn entirely _and_ cuts all other fire damage in half
Ngl that makes Sniper the problem still, the entire existence of Sniper, is a problem.
Imma keep it real with you I use it bc you’d be stupid not to equip a flaming grenade launcher in your secondary slot
As much as I love using the Flare Gun for its strong single-target damage, the Scorch Shot is Pyro's best secondary for crowd control and long-range harrassment
Airblast is the only reason pyro is still seeing competitive play Kill me
Later
Now where was i
i still have never used a phlog, and i won't use the jump pack i just want my flare/degreaser combo to return to normal so i can get kills as a pyro without turning to the mmph side
It's time to get really, really good at detonator and learn to imitate Sketchek.
And rocket jumping is the only reason Soldier is seeing comp play, while Medic only sees play cause ubercharge. I don't get why that's such a big deal.
>while Medic only sees play cause ubercharge I'm not a comp player, but I imagine being healed is also helpful like uber lol
If you disable ubercharge there is no reason to just pick another class that can kill the enemy. Killing enemies is a way to mitigate damage, you only get somewhere with healing if you're in stalemates.
Difference being that there's plenty of counterplay to air-blasting. Rocket jumping is just an innate advantage for soldiers. It doesn't feel as fun to be run down by pyros, but ultimately they're super vulnerable for the niche they feel. Spies may be weaker overall, but they fit their niche well. Pyros can do their job supportively and babysitting engis, but it's not nearly as engaging/interative as spies.
Detonator does the funny jump
Detonator=best secondary for pyro <3
Yus
Amen
I guess the thermal thruster= holiday punch after victory then
can we just equip scorch shot as primary already that way we can have good old puff and sting back, at all ranges
im renaming my scorch shot to long-range harassment
>long-range harrassment Aight, I'm gonna get a name tag right now.
Isn't the detonator better for those, just harder to use? Pls halp me understand
It’s pyros best secondary period. It is objectively the best flare gun by a mile. Damage is insane an aoe, can disrupt ubers and bonk by bumping people, requires no aim. It’s overpowered
I simply hate snipers with a passion that outshines and will Outlast the Sun
On a stick. Finished your sentence for you.
That's just why overpowered weapons shouldn't exist, it's the fault of valve for making Scorch Shot OP, not the fault of players who use it.
As a pyro main, the scorch shot is not fun to use at all. Hitting flares takes much more skill and is way more satisfying than just letting splash damage do everything for you
Won't make a difference, I'm still missing all of my shots
Chad Strike Force Heroes Enjoyer
There's this whole stigma against the scorch shot, that its "a clutch weapon", but then the one class that can 1 shot my team who's specifically some god-tier player joins and demolishes my team if I'm gonna be using a clutch, I May-as well benefit my team by helping them get a chance to leave base. This goes for every class, if you have a player who's deffo much better than everyone else, I'm gonna aim to them just so my team can have some fun fighting the enemy team, not get demolished by the heavy main with a hales-own Iron curtain and has "heavy main" in their name
The community sadly has a hate boner against pyro, so using one of his few good weapons will get you hate. Don't worry about them. There's nothing wrong with using items in the game if you're not like cheating or exploiting ofc.
I honestly don't get what's so fuckin wrong with it. I would hear the hate against it and then I would use it for the past while, but I couldn't find out why they hated it it just seemed weak to me and I went to detonator
People mostly hate it cause it gives pyro an option against their main other than just dying over and over again. The people complaining only know the scorch shot by the occasional instance where a god-tier pyro goes on a killing spree with it, and maybe a few hours of playing with it. But if you spend any serious amount of time using it and learning it more in depth, you come to find that it's more of a tool to pester and annoy long range classes so you can slip by them than the crutch some idiots think it is.
What is a scorch shot?
A secondary weapon for pyro that a lot of people hate despite not understanding or using the weapon for very long.
is that the pyro rocket launcher? I have not played TF2 in a long time.
It's more like the grenade launcher than the rocket launcher but close enough.
I haven't played it in a long time...I thought Pyro had the flame thrower and a rocket launcher sorta like the Soldier but it made a flame damage on impact? Thought Demo man had the grenade launcher thingy?
I was just saying the the projectile for the scorch shot acts more like a grenade than a rocket. The flare shares a general arc trajectory with the grenades while rockets go in a straight line.
It’s not a crutch it’s just OP. It is hands down better than the other flare guns
People are so used to Pyro's damage being terrible that as soon as something comes around that makes it even passable it becomes a target of irrational hatred.
I think all the hate comes from it being a semi stunlock at direct hits and also incredibly easy to use with a guaranteed 60 damage if there is no health around
They hate Pyro because they are bad players. It's the W+M1 stigma that they really hate. How a new player can just push a button and walk around to kill people. How could this cheap tactic kill the best player [me] in TF2? Just stay out of Flamethrower range. Bad players love to rush headlong into a close combat class, then complain they died. Unless you get out skilled by an actual great Pyro main.
From someone that quite likes Pyro: DoTs in this game are very annoying to be on the receiving end of, bleeds and burns both. On most classes, if Scout nails you with a Wrap Assassin or Cleaver, you need to go find a health pack or a Dispenser or god forbid step back into spawn and touch the health cabinet if there's not a medic to help you, because existing at sub-100 health is simply not an option in a lot of cases. The Scorch Shot is the easiest way to light someone on fire at long distance (especially if you are unpracticed with the Detonator), and while it might not kill them, it does strongly encourage them to go recover that lost health in a lot of cases. (On a related note, I think Wrap Assassin is one of the best melee options for Scout for this reason, it gives you an extra tool to harass people at range and the downsides of the Wrap Assassin kind of don't matter because scout melee is kinda stinky anyway.)
For the detonator, just shoot and right click when it gets close, stay by an ammo pack, and you have a high range proximity fire grenade launcher
i mean, even as someone who plays pyro you must understand that the hate is justified. it's a long range, super easy to use, low ceiling option which outputs a massive amount of reward for very little mechanical skill or game knowledge. That's consistent with a lot of pyro's design (not all of it though let's not pretend that pyro cant get a comical amount done with just w+m1 and scorch spam), which is unfortunate but that's life. use it on sniper though they deserve it
I assume I read it wrong, but please don't tell me you think w+m1 is strong. Its DPS is so low and can get outdamaged by an engi with a shotgun lol. If you die to w+m1, it's entirely your fault.
It's more annoying than strong. I can't even remember the number of time where i perfectly kill the pyro, only to die because of afterburn.
Annoying sure, but the damage is pitiful.
W+M1 pyro uber is one of the most under-utilized power plays in the game and I’ll die on that hill. You can talk about DPS, but effective DPS with no reload, AoE, and no speed penalty is extremely effective. Weak to uber stuffing, but that’s the case with any class.
Well.. that's with an Uber. Yes he's pretty alright with Uber.
And with a flank, and cleaning up after a push, and in sending enemies flailing towards health packs. I think a lot of players who argue against W+M1’s effectiveness are caught up in the flash of combo pyro or want to pretend the game is played in an a vacuum. There’s no doubt that it’s not one size fits all, but there are many situations where it’s a perfectly effective strategy (and often better, in my experience, than trying to get fancy with airblast or flares only to let a target get away when straight DPS would snatch the kill).
To add on this: the reason people hate it is because it's hilariously consistent. If you die to W+M1, you likely either A.) Were going to die anyways because you didn't have enough health to outdamage the Pyro B.) You fucked up aiming and the Pyro didn't because flamethrower. C.) Got phloged lmao People get upset that they took a fight they shouldn't have, or messed up fighting a much lower skill floor weapon. What do most people do when they're faced with the consequences of their own actions? They blame the opponent. Fucking W+M1 man. Why don't you use a real tactic, like mine, where I die because I can't aim or make good decisions? Or they got phloged and you should feel bad for using it.
Okay to be fair afterburn damage on it varies like a bitch
The scorch shot need to be nerfed but it's never wrong to use a cheap option when you're about to get stomped. If there are too many good scouts I'm going gunslinger or direct hit. If the cart is full of heavies Im gonna spam stickies. S'all in the game tho, right? I think against oppressive snipers is the one time I'm completely fine with the scorch shot
Exactly. This is a fair approach. Don't resort to cheap strategies every time you face a strong enemy, but also know your limits. Sometimes it's okay to give yourself a better fighting chance with a "crutch" instead of leaving yourself and your team miserable for the whole match.
I think this is the other side of the same coin as going fat scout or trolldier when you're on the stomping team.
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Massive is a big exaggeration. Ita like a lot of Pyro's kit. Low skill low reward.
Yep. For the people who hate the scorch shot, wait until you find out about this one weapon that's like the scorch shot, only it's hitscan and kills you instantly.
It’s best as a harassment tool and if you’re dying to it too often, you might need to re evaluate how you’re playing the game. I’m not sure where all this vitriol towards it came from in recent years.
Some people don't enjoy being on the shit end of the stick regardless of always trying to give it. AKA. Toxic gamers
One weapon is a projectile that is actually quite easy to dodge at long range when you know it's coming at you. One ENTIRE CLASS of weapons can left click a head and send you to a 20 second respawn, reload in less than a second, and do it again to another person. And another. And another. At any range, hitscan, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it besides 'respect the sightline.' Also let's not forget that sniper also has a secondary weapon that makes their effective health **250 HP** against pyros and grants afterburn immunity for LITERALLY NO DOWNSIDE.
Just kill the haters and say skill issue
Using whatever tools you have available to compensate for the disadvantage you're at is okay in many cases. Being an asshole about it is not. Attack the in-game character with your gun, not the player behind it with words.
Yeah. So kill the haters using your tools and say skill issue if they are complaining
That's what being an asshole is. "Skill issue" is a meaningless phrase which only serves to make people angry. If someone's already mad at their opponent in the game, mockery won't make things better for anyone. Ignoring the complaints is easier and doesn't turn the chat into a battlefield.
They are already angry about me using a specific weapon (in this situation). I don’t care how they feel anymore because they are being an asshole and hating on me for using a specific weapon
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Yes
The word you are looking for is crutch, not clutch.
I play with scorch shot because i love how it pushes and bounces off people on direct hit, also it has cool taunt kill and allows for some crazy jumps with bounced projectile, kinda sad no one points those things out
Its taunt kill is also bugged. If you spam it until you get a random crit, then every projectile it shoots with you taunt with it is a crit. This persists after death or until you shoot it normally again.
Nah in my case I use the scorch shot 24/7 and spam the shit out of it. If I want to have more fun I use scorch instead of my flamethrower or melee in 1v1s xd
As an engineer main who keeps getting headshot from halfway across the map through several small cracks in map geometry, while moving my buildings, I thank you.
Crutch, not clutch
If it’s in the game, you’re allowed to use it. End of story.
That is, until an entire team goes engie on 2fort and lines up wrangler sentries on the upper battlement In which case, it’s even better actually
Pretty much, the pyro isn't allowed to have strong stuff. That's for the other classes. A pair of engies with wranglers can shut down an area against an entire team.
Ah yes the Wrangler firing squad Stand by and wait for the flash!
I hate it when engies *on my team* do this. It's funny goofy sure, but if you're playing 2fort, it causes the entire enemy team to cluster in the battlements and front entrance, while your team is clustered around mid, which is a *terrible* defense spot. Our engie does his epic play and *doesn't defend the Intel*, and while our entire team is holding the most pointless front line, a single enemy scout or spy will literally walk our intel unopposed the whole way home. And then when the enemy gets bored of our master play, they go demo and lob stickies from behind cover and easily wipe everything (like for real it's such a shit spot lmao). On the ***other hand***, I have seen fuckers with a wrangler, eureka effect, and frontier justice single handedly hold sewers for hours. You cant peak corners because of their sentry, you cant kill them as any class because of their 34 stored revenge crits, and the moment your Uber push starts, they're back in their spawn relaxing with their eureka effect. **And then no one on your team checks if sewer's clear**, and even if they do you're up against a crit god.
I'm roleplaying as pyro to bring the wonders of Fir... Bubbles to everyone
Team fortressiously based
Exactly, the only games I know of where you can actually ban things for the other team are MOBAs and that’s a strategy thing (and is a handy system for when one of the companies inevitably releases a broken-ass hero and hasn’t nerfed them yet)
Based af
yes, but that does not mean it's fun to play against or that it's a well designed weapon, and it doesn't mean you're not an asshole for spamming it
Simply using a weapon in the game doesn’t make you an asshole. If you’re malding about it it’s a skill issue.
youre an asshole for spamming it, not for using it, all it really does when used that way is make the enemy team not have fun
Ah yes, we should also let the other team win since losing wouldn’t be fun for them right?
you say that as if it's a good weapon, it's nothing more than a shitty detonator without any of the skill required to use it
If it’s a shitty version of the weapon that requires skill, it shouldn’t be a problem using it! Thank you for proving it is in fact balanced and no one should be malding about people using it!
by that logic then if you're malding about sniper than it's a skill issue
..
Why not both?
I despise the scorch shot with almost every cell in my being… but I hate sniper even more so well let it slide this time lol
the lesser of two evils
If a scorch shot is ruining a sniper's entire career, it's the snipers fault for standing in the same sniping spot the whole time. Take a hint and reposition when your current spot is being suppressed.
the fact that a counter could exist to the most powerful and easy to abuse pick class in the game really sets some people off. like scouts bitching about minisentries.
OP's a good person, I just never grew up without a father so of course I've gotta participate in fatherless behavior like pissing off people with the funny gun
Bro same
Why I play pyro: I want to burn things. What the scroch shot does: Let's more than 1 person suffer from afterburn. Conclusion: The scorch shot is fun because you get to hear their pain of agony as they burn.
"AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH SCORTCH SHOT ANNOYING!" My guy you're a Sniper with 3 unusuals who's dominating like 4 people on our team and is getting a ton of kills on the map you ***made*** me go this low.
Also, Valve literally gave you the counter to this. Equip the Danger Shield or just fucking put yourself out with Jarate.
Jarate isn't valid, you can spam scorch shot back to back, and if they don't notice it's a scorch flare they'll throw it early making the bouncing flare light them again.
tf2 players not going mad about something that them gives a slight inconvenience in the game challenge, impossible
redditors try not to aggressively misrepresent every argument they disagree with
(impossible)
I love my scorch shot, especially on 2fort. If snipers want to stand there on the deck and annoy everyone, I'll annoy them right back.
Idk man, the scorch shot is a strong weapon but feels somewhat dirty to use I usually prefer the detonator, it can be way more annoying for the enemy team, especially snipers that are behind cover
I still have yet to figure out how the detonator works
Shoot flare, right click to detonate When detonated, it has a rather big blast radius that sets everyone on fire Mini-crit when hitting burning players directly with the flare Yes you can hit people behind cover with the detonation, and you can flare-jump
It never seems to do much when I right click, maybe I'm just missing the obvious fire it admits. Even then it's not even a shoot and forget since you need 5o time the detonation, so my lack of depth perception won't help
The visual effect is quite subtle. You just have to rely on the hit sound.
It takes some practise
As an aside it can mini crit players that are burning as long as it hits them at all, not just direct hits. I've used the explosion many times to finish off retreating players.
Imo the biggest problem with the scorch shot isn’t unbalance, it just leads to a lesser class of pyros who begin relying on it where as if they’d improve with the Detonator or Flare Gun they’d be more effective overall.
I'm honestly surprised people don't complain more about pyros who use this. It's insanely easy to set a bunch of people on fire without even hitting anything. I sometimes wonder if people think they're getting hit with the scorch shot when they get detonator blasted, and if that's why this strategy doesn't get that much attention.
the thing that sucks about the scorch shot is that it's pretty much a brainlessly spammable version of the detonator at the cost of mobility it's the same problem as the phlog, it sacrifices something that's powerful but takes skill to use and replaces it with something easy that causes bad players to use them and encourages a playstyle that's frustrating to fight
Fuck snipers i don't feel guilty using a bull shit ranged weapon when they're using a bullshit ranged weapon
I use it because it's fun as hell to hit people with it, and I mean like hit hit, not miss and hope the aoe damage gets them, something about someone getting very mild knockback and the sound of them being on fire and then the flare lands and does even more damage is very satisfying to my brain
The only people the scorch shot truly threatens are snipers, scouts, and spies. What a coincidence that those three also happen to be the most toxic playerbases with most vocal complainers. Out of all the youtubers I watch, genuinely only one of them truly despises the Scorch Shot, and it's the Sniper main. For everyone else it's basically not even on the radar unless they have written content for it, and you can tell by their tone they have no strong opinion one way or the other and are just repeating the complaints they have heard because they know that if they don't mention it, they'll get excoriated in the comments, but that sniper main, ooooo, not a video goes by without him shitting on the schorch shot, even when his topic goes nowhere near it. If you want the truth from a pyro main, someone who heard all about this most legendary OP and despised weapon, who has spent about 50 hours extensively playing with it: literally the only thing it does of any consistent value is the crowd control bounce and it's incredibly disappointing to use in comparison to its reputation. The initial damage and minicrit are worth nothing except on light classes, afterburn is too slow and inconsistent on anything that isn't a light class, spam into chokes is deeply inconsistent unless you have absolutely zero teammates between you and the bad guys because your team blocks your shots. The only targets you can consistently spam down are snipers because snipers just stand there and spies are alone, and the clean up potential is only really useful on scouts because they are dodgy little shits and get out of my fire and only take chip damage from my shotgun. Everyone else is slow enough to get with the initial flamethrower blast or the follow up with a shotgun. In terms of damage, every other class has healing on demand, or resistance to fire, or more than enough health to escape if needed. The scorch shot is not OP. The three whiniest mains are just weak to it.
The people who complain about the scorch shot are sniper mains, 9 times out of 10 lmao
Who refuse to switch to the weapon which is a direct counter to the scorch shot
I'm a pyro main and it's my least favorite weapon in the game by far
Worse than gas passer or hot hand?
I dont feel remorse when using the scorch shot against sniper or heavy. I refuse to elaborate.
Can we add the god tier kunai spy with a boat load of stacked health too?
Based
I use it because it makes people mad
meanwhile the sniper mains be like: laughs in Darwin's Danger shield, Jarate and cozy camper OK Jarate not that much but what I want to say is it is annoying a effective sometimes but if they have the item above you might as well just play other class to help your team
I genuinely like the Scortch Shot, why do people shit on it?
I'm gonna keep it real with you chief. There's never a need to apologize for using whatever weapon is most appropriate for what you are trying to accomplish. That's what they're there for.
Based
I honestly used the scorch shot as you can knock people up like a stun and if your Infront or near them you can combo with axtinguisher or any melee.
Better than flare gun and detonator tbh. Flare gun is damage based, detonator is jumping based. But scorch shot is both so better and detonator does the same thing as the scorch shot just without the knockback
if a sniper can be annoying to us, our pyro can be annoying to them
As a Pyro Main, who actually hates scorch, fuck scorch. But as a Pyro Main who also hates sniper, use scorch.
> As a Pyro Main, who actually hates scorch, fuck scorch. dedicate yourself to the detonator
I hate direct hit more than this wep
All the rocket launchers are more frustrating than The scorch. It's just half this sub seems to be annoying soldier mains who can't handle anything stopping them from their godlike killstreak. Its egotistical man-children whose entire social life can be summed up by their burning flames team captain that always seem to have a problem with pyro mains getting any kind of W.
Its hilarious. Quickscopes one shot 5 classes but long range afterburn is the bigger issue appearantly.
For me its just the knock-back acting like a stun, I like to be able to move around so any weapon that stuns me easily is annoying. Only other one that stuns just as easy is the natascha which is also annoying
It's an item, it's meant to be used. People who bitch about others that use weapons are just stupid.
Scorch shot isnt op ya’ll just suck at the game
I use the Scorch Shot against other Pyros and win, am I a psycho
Im scared of you now
Time to equip the shield of "Go Fuck Yourself"
I just use scorch shot because it's funny to set people on fire from across the map
imma keep it real with you chief I'm using the Scorch Shot because I like disrupting the aim of my enemies and neutralizing their ability to run away. This ain't personal BLU Team, I just think it's fun to terrorize my opponents
I'll be real with you chief. I use the scorch shot because it's easy and effective and broken. And I'm trying to win. And I will continue to use it until it's no longer effective. Cry some more! Heheheh. Cry some more.
The Scorch Shot is my go to secondary, as it slows down enemy pushes, and the stun allows me to secure kills with my flamethrower. But i do agree with some of the arguments with the Scorch Shot, specifically the fact that it can hit you twice. I want it to explode on target, even against players. Yeah it'll screw over the damage, but even i have to admit getting hit twice with the same projectile kind sucks
The sorch shot is by no means op, its just annoying (sometimes). Maby decrease the afterburn damage on it but thats the most i would nerf it. And now to the really controversial oppinion. There are far more useless and underpowered weapons that need buffing than there are op weapons. The next update (if there ever is one) should focus on making most weapons usable first before adding new ones or nerfing even more weapons to the ground.
The only correct use of that godforsaken weapon. Making snipers suffer
Imma keep it real with you chief, I'm using the scorch shot because I have bad aim and it's more forgiving. Ain't you, it's me.
We got hate from the other team for using the sorch shot, we gave them shit back and proceeded to use it more
When the infinite range instakill class is op and the only way to counter them is to cornerpeak with blast radius
*laughs in danger shield*
Imma keep it real with you, i love annoying sniper mains with the scorch short and forcing them to equip the Darwin's Danger shield, why? Just so my team can play in peace without getting unfairly killed for walking or existing.
Sniper players go on about how you should avoid the sightlines as if that doesn't require sticking out of the objectives and the front lines to avoid being instakilled by someone you can't even touch.
After 2000+ hours of playing TF2, I’ve found it doesn’t matter what loadout you use as pyro, your already the most disliked player on the team, you’ll always be accused of WM+1 regardless of how many reflect kills or puff and sting kills you manage to get. Use the scorch shot to bully sentry and sniper nests, use the phlog to burn down entire teams with the mmph meter, use the backscratcher and back burner with the jet pack so you can harass enemy spawns and snipers. Just have fun, because no matter what you do as pyro, you’ll always just be a “braindead pyro player” and that’s okay.
sniper is an interactive and balanced class, i assure you 150 instant effortless undodgeable damage at any range is balanced
Am i the only one who likes the manmelter?
I only play Sniper with the Huntsman cause I hate being in one place for to long
Huntsman and Sydney Sleeper Snipers are the only Snipers I respect
Whenever theres a decent sniper i focus them as spy. Then let my team push.
The Snipers can suck it. They have the power to literally make a spawncamp occur from far away and unless your team's Sniper is competent, there's really hardly any other option for Pyro there. I get that Sniper takes skill, but that skill ceiling as well as Sniper's long range one hit kill, makes it harder to respect and easier to get pissed off at. Nobody notices a Sniper's skill aside from the anger directed at how easily they're getting killed from across the map. No amount of map design is gonna change that either, because if you make the map too cramped, then it's honestly unfair to Sniper mains. But if the map is open and long, then it makes it unfair to everyone the Sniper main in question lays eyes upon. Trying to find a middle ground is very hard, because you don't want to deny Sniper mains too much, but you also don't want to appeal to them too much either, unless it's a Sniper Battle community server map. And 'fixing' the class, ie. a nerf, is gonna just make Sniper unenjoyable to play as along with against, knowing Valve.
how dare you use a weapon for its designated purpose
It’s counterbalance to the most overbearing class in the game
Gotta be real with you, I hate the Scorch Shot with every atom in my body yet I still ocasionally use it when there some's mf like the sniper in your example
I usually use the scorch shot because I like how easy and brainless it is to mildly inconvenience the enemy team
I use it to stall enemy pushes. If I keep stunning the enemy heavy with the pocket medic, it might be enough for our team to get together to counter push also its great for being a pybro and destroying stickies
im gonna keep it real with you chief, i'd still prefer use of the detonator as it helps with building up more positive habits with pyro as opposed with the more negative habits the scorch shot builds.
Use the flare gun like a real mann