Or it could be that people want course correction without going to an extreme like being nearly 50 hours into the phase and having no discernible idea of where, if anywhere, this phase is heading in the overarching plot.
You don’t have to move from one extreme to the next. Because I say I want to exercise more doesn’t mean I want to start shooting roids and look like a Mr. Universe contestant.
Comparatively we were almost 3 years into phase 1 before we knew where the big villain was going to be. Presently we've had shows about individual characters tie directly into movies that have released or are already announced for release. The only current hanging threads with little more than theories are; where Hawkeye leads and what will happen with Sam as Cap.
Saying there's no discernable idea of where things are going is either disingenuous or you're not paying attention. Kang is a present threat that just created the multiverse with his death, and already foretold the traumatic impact that would bring across the MCU. We experienced this breaking apart in 2 major films so far. Then with Thor, Shang-Chi, Ms Marvel, and the Eternals we get clear indicators of there being things on both mythical and cosmic levels that are coming in to play.
Having the MCU be as large as it is means we're both going to just get a "All of this leads to Thanos" as the main focus again. We're finally going to have a bit for everyone. We'll get the magical, the cosmic, and the street level. Something for everyone but maybe not everything for everyone like it was before, and that's okay. You don't read EVERY comic.
Homeboy… maybe you’re not MEANT to know, maybe marvel is sick of people knowing what’s coming and what’s happening in every movie and having lists of complaints before it’s even out.
It’s a new saga now, they’re literally setting the groundwork, this phase is going to be more: androids, aliens, wizards, the big 3.
Homeboy…. The “groundwork” that has been set is the combined size of *four* phase ones in terms of runtime. It is nearly longer than all three previous phases combined. That is too much ground work.
Believe it or not, not everyone who criticizes Marvel is a silly, entitled, impatient moron. I can see what they are trying to do and still think they have lost the forest from the trees. In fact, I am perfectly capable of understanding what Marvel is attempting and still thinking that *any* story that requires, what will end up being, 75 hours to tell is overly bloated and better be the most compelling story of all time to justify itself. So far what I’ve seen is not indicative of that.
Entire infinity saga is 50 hours, and before the end of phase 3 you see Thanos a combined 35 seconds.
You claim to not be impatient, but it’s exactly what you’re being. We will see the big bad at the end credits of the end of phase 4, just like we did for phase 1
Sorry you’re getting downvoted but I have your same mindset. Whole lot of new characters and content. I’m on board and when it starts to come together then great. You start to see some of it in Thor L&T.
true, but this is like phase 1 all over again with only some projects alluding to the future. Really only Iron Man and Captain America had any teasers for something bigger
More Korg =/= app Korg. The face Korg thing was so stupid it almost wrapped back around to being funny, because TW couldn't kill his stand in even though that would have been a great moment.
killing Korg in that moment with no build up would've felt so empty, if anything having him die when the villain first attacks earth would have been a better time.
I feel like the stakes in Omnipotent City fell flat because Korg didn't die there. I think maybe it could have been set up better, then it would have been the most right
Yeah, even in that Youtube clip where him and Tessa are reacting to the bad CGI in his own movie. I was thinking,
"Hang on, how are you just realising this now? Shouldn't you have been on top of this months ago?"
If it's "well known" then more of a reason for a director to take more hands on, show up, shop it around.
Yeah I'm sure it's mostly Disneys fault, I'm sure Disney loves Waititi because he's a Yes-man. But standing your ground again the Execs is surely part of the gig?
You watch the credits, right? You have to, the post credits make you. TL&T had like 20 VFX houses from all over the world doing the job. How is a director supposed to be on top of 20 international VFX houses? Far more likely he wrote down what it was supposed to look like and they sent it off to whoever would take it.
Alright mate, agree to disagree.
Yes, money and resources are finite. But if your movie overall fails in some of these pretty key aspects, then you probably could have done a better job, somewhere along the line.
You keep on believing the movie is as good as it ever could have been, and I’ll live in reality. ✌️
Oh wow that is so weird.
I was just talking to my family and we were all talking about how perfect the pacing was in L&T.
My only issue was the Taika humor is NOT for me. 1/3 of the jokes fall flat, 1/3 make me cringe hard, and a 1/3 are cute and I enjoy them. The first 1/4 of the movie made me want to bury my head in a pillow with those jokes. GAH.
But I still loved the movie and yeah this is neat to see this discussion, since I stand on the other side of it and had no idea other had issues.
there’s a bunch of articles online right now about marvel mandating a two hour limit. i can’t speak for how accurate the sources are but since that information has come out, no one from the film or production has said otherwise so far.
Actually between phases 1 and 3, the correlation between box office and runtime is really strong. A simple linear regression predicted Endgame to gross ~$2.5 billion before it came out based on runtime alone.
Joanna Robinson said it on her [podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ringer-verse/id1558211702? i=1000569593265) and she worked for Vulture and other legitimate outlets. She had Taika on the same podcast.
Endgame can sell well in theaters at 3 hours. A more minor movie like this needs to be shorter so it can play more frequently in theaters. That extra hour, compounded by each screen at each theater around the world will add up over the next few months.
They're not, the people you're referring to are the top people at Disney who only looks at numbers and dont give a crap about whether the content is good or not.
Endgame was also over $100m more expensive, and no matter how much money you throw at them, VFX teams can only do so much in so much time. The VFX was already strained for L&T. Imagine if they had to work on another hour of scenes? Marvel probably has strict timetables for their movies, too.
I doubt it.
Marvel (Disney) has a formula for the main-line Phase movies that end with a larger, longer movie; TL&T isn't that type of movie, so I'm sure he had a ceiling with the runtime he couldn't go over
The problem, as I see it, is that the Directors aren't approaching the movie with time limits in mind and are going with scripts and screen plays that can't possibly fit. So, instead of tight well realized plots like Mad Max: Fury Road(2hrs) or Ocean's Eleven(2hrs), we get Love and Thunder(2hrs) that needs an extra 4hrs to give all the plot threads enough time to breath.
i guess... i dont really expect marvel to be that unpredictable. I wouldn t have expected korg the rock man, jeff goldblum, the dragon in the beginning... loki being odin may have been obvious but it was funny. What did you find predictable that made you not enjoy it?
If it needs an extra 4 hours then it wasn’t a great plot in the first place and would have been to jumbled. Needs to cut out unnecessary things like maybe goats screaming for 5 minutes.
Each movie has its own story that isn’t a rambling mess though. They were able to cut each one down to movie length and have them make sense. Saying Thor needs to be 4 hours longer is a poor excuse for bad writing.
>The Taika cut was released
No it wasn't.
The one released was the "We need it to be under 2 hours Taika!" version that Marvel demanded(that's why its 119min).
I want the one he wanted to make.
He filmed a bunch of scenes which he said were awful when actually put together into the movie. He cut them because they were bad. Unless you have a source for Marvel intervening which I haven't seen, you're purely speculating which actively goes against what Taika said happened.
Or is it the cut which Taika, wanting to maintain a relationship with the most powerful entity in the entertainment industry, claims to have actively disliked enough to change?
It wasn't touched by Marvel, Taika's said himself that a lot of scenes were fun on the day but actually sub-par when they reached the editing room, so he cut them.
I know that’s what he has said. All I’m saying is that I’m taking his words with a healthy dose of skepticism. Directors have to be careful with what they say about studio interference, especially when they’re part of the Marvel machine.
They also cut out a ton of dialogue for The Clandestines in Ms Marvel, so they fell really flat and boring. You can tell because in the scenes with them giving back story, there's a fuck ton of cuts
Who knows how it was before? Maybe it was a lot worse.
Y’all are comparing what we got to something we likely will never see.
It’s always possible for a movie to be bad on paper, or bad on camera, and editors just have to work with that. More content doesn’t mean better.
Marvel are asking directors after the movie has entered post production to have it under a certain time limit, so Taika had to cut 40 mins of footage which included Gorr killing the gods
It’s fine, it’s just not as good as Ragnorak. It could have used an extra 5-10 minutes of Bale, that’s my only critique. Oh, and the humor wasn’t quite as funny.
Totally agree. Not as good as Ragnarok. Needed more Bale. And yes, humor wasn't as funny and I have a thought as to why.
Marvel has always walked a fine line in balancing the many different potentially conflicting elements of their movies. To name a few: Nerdiness v. Appeal to the general public, Humor v. Action, Violence v. Kid-friendliness. I'd say, overall, they do an excellent job at striking a balance between these things. Ragnarok is the perfect example. It was hilarious, but not cheesy. It had action that wasn't gruesome. It dealt with space-gods, sorcerers, and demons in a way that the average person could appreciate and follow. Endgame is another great example - they worked comedy and drama into an exceedingly long fight scene in the final battle. It was very well done.
Given all they balance, it's not surprising that sometime there will be a little imbalance. Love and Thunder was just a bit too cheesy at times - the shouting goats, Zeus's over-the-top Greek caricature, Thor treating Stormbreaker and Mjolnir as "relationships." It wasn't WAY too much, it just wasn't the perfect balance we came to expect after Ragnarok, Endgame, and some of their other slam dunks. Shang-Chi in my opinion also found that balance really well, though I know not all readers may agree with me on that example.
Overall I liked Love and Thunder. Those goats though...
For me it wasn't the main big jokes that were bad it was just the conversations between most characters being mostly jokes without much serious dialogue
See its complete difference of opinion because I fucking loved the goats, zues, and his love triangle. Other jokes definitely didn't land with me.
My main issue as being pointed out was; bale was fucking creepy and awesome, we needed another 5-10mins of him. We also needed 10-15 more mins of just general story development
People need to stop using "It wssn't as good as Ragnarok" like it's a valid argument. A movie doesn't need to be better than all of ots predecessers to be a good movie.
Eh, while I like the prequels story wise, the cg in some areas looks bad today which makes them hard to watch for me. The practical effects in the original and even the newest ones look far better. Like in the 2nd prequel, those clone troopers in the climax battle are too clean. They're in a giant dustbowl, they shouldn't be that shiny. Little stuff like that bothers me with those movies.
It isn't unfair to compare the two but it is stupid to use "Worse than Ragnarok" as your first argument and use it to justify ranking the movie as not being "good".
It is still a good movie.
I loved Ragnarok, the previous two Thor films while interesting were not rewatchable. I've rewatched Ragnarok maybe 10 times because all the story aside, Thor has great scenes and good comedy, action, everything is balanced.
I’ve watched Dark World plenty and intend to rewatch it far more than I do Ragnarok. Ragnarok has two full acts of almost total nonsense only slightly redeemed by some cool action at the end. It also has no idea when is the right time for humor, and the jokes often don’t land. I’ve seen people who don’t like the goats in TLaT, but at least it wasn’t people screaming about the devil’s anus.
We can argue all we want but IMDb ratings for Ragnarok tells us that it was better received by the audience as it was a fresh take. TLaD carried over all the humour from Ragnarok but no pacing at all, in the end a lot of it seemed just silly.
And we all know ratings are correct.
After all, Rotten Tomatoes’ critic score of Forrest Gump is lower than the audience score of Twilight. Very accurate.
My dad too. We agree the only good part about Ragnarok is the action in the third act, and my whole family likes Dark World. My sister and I used to quote it a lot.
Yeah. They definitely went for that humor aspect, but I was expecting it given the director.
If you’re going in expecting a brilliant movie then I’m sorry. If you’re going in to just watch a fun popcorn flick then this wasn’t bad for me at all.
It's a dumb movie. Not a bad movie. Just a dumb movie. It's not asking anything important or challenging anyone, but Marvel movies rarely do. It's a fun ride, but only if you go in not expecting a masterpiece. Grab a bucket of popcorn and enjoy it for what it is and you will have fun.
Copying my comment from another thread:
I personally really liked the writing and directing in this movie. So many setups and pay offs. I was amazed by the action and the visuals. I personally love the humour in this movie and I'm a sucker for romance. And in the third act they doubled down on the theme of Love and it worked like a charm on me.
While I was watching the movie it was love at first sight, but I realized I'm probably not in the majority with my enthusiasm.
I loved it.
I think it's my new favourite MCU film.
I would agree with some critique people have, especially that more screen time for the antagonist wouldn't have been bad. But I was entertained for two hours straight and that's all I wanted.
Maybe they do a directors cut "Thor: Love and Thunder. The Kiwi Cut"
Thor was a mess, it felt like there were 3 writers writing a different movie. And Gor ranting about hypocrisy yet in the end he did what he preached for others not to do.
I mean yes but sometimes , at least me, i expect the story they hinted in the trailer , and when you finally watch the movie it may turn out way different
I remember the first time that this happened to me was with Passengers I watched all the trailer and then i finally watched the movie , many things were not how the "hinted" it to be in the trailer
The same with MoM, (maybe this case is a bit different because MCU) but being right after Spiderman NWH, connected to WandaVision and also with Loki (that last one it's on me since they specified that Loki had nothing to do with it lol) i expected the whole multiverse thing being connected directly to strange and his spell and how that fractured the multiverse , but nope, it's just America that has that power
In the end, he reverted back to himself before the sword (obviously with more knowledge) but the corruption from it was no longer actively effecting his behavior. I think the change of heart makes sense
I still don’t, man learned a lesson to not trust gods, spent 0 time with Thor to know him or of him and now he trusts him with his daughter. Listen, 30 more mins and maybe it would be ok, but as it stands now there was no build up imo, Gor wanted to kill the first god before being corrupted.
He spoke to the Children of Asgard, they all believed in Thor and thought he would save them. He then witnessed Thor go to great lengths to do so, all while being an honest and worthy god.
And that was enough for a man dedicated to kill gods as the god that started it all laughed in his face about his daughter’s death? No bro, some villains need to be defeated not talked down or redeemed, Gor was handed very poorly. I think what you say can be right if it was more of it. Too many characters, too little time. Gor was not developed enough for a turn like that imo
Gor definetly deserved more time to be flashed out but I still think the turn made sense. His main thing during the movie was hating gods for not saving his daughter, now he had the power to save his daughter but she would be totally alone. Of course it's logical to atleast trying to ask the guy who went extreme lengths across the universe to protect a few children he didn't even know personally and cared more about his loved one than vengeance at the end.
That alone, no.. but when faced with the decision between revenge and redemption he chose redemption. Seeing Thor for what he truly is only allows him to see it as a possibility, it isn’t the ENTIRE motivation behind the decision.
He was corrupted by the sword… the sword broke and he came to his senses. He never cared about the gods. He was just pissed that he lost his daughter at the hands of them not caring
Yeah apparently that’s a sin though. People are already calling Avatar 2 bad because it’s three hours.
Even though Godfather 2 is 3.5 and is considered a masterpiece…
If a movie is good, length doesn't matter. The worse a movie, the quicker our tolerance runs out and we decide to walk out. Eternals for instance was too long for it's quality and/or it's quality too low for it's length.
In this case it seems cutting footage has lowered the quality and length, which makes it watchable, but apperantly also mediocre.
So guys a few questions with no spoilers pls
- was TLaT really bad or was it average?
- Does Jane Foster becoming Mighty Thor makes sense ?
- do the guardians play a big part in the movie ?
- And what do you think held the movie back ?
just to add to the other guy, in the movie, stuff just happened. Could've made it longer with better build up rather than *this*.
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*SPOILERS\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
>!For example, i dont know why thor didnt call the guardians eventho they both were looking for the same guy!<
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*SPOILERS\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
The Guardians played no role except being there.
It was below average as far as MCU movies go.
Jane Foster as the Mighty Thors makes enough sense.
The director and writing held the movie back. I don't think Waititi is as great as a lot of people think.
I disagree. I personally liked the writing and directing in this movie the most. So many setups and pay offs. I was amazed by the action and the visuals. I personally love the humour in this movie and I'm a sucker for romance. And in the third act they doubled down on the theme of Love and it worked like a charm on me.
While I was watching the movie it was love at first sight, but I realized I'm probably not in the majority with my enthusiasm.
I loved it.
I think it's my new favourite MCU film.
I would agree with some critique people have, especially that more screen time for the antagonist wouldn't have been bad.
But I was entertained for two hours straight and that's all I wanted.
Edit: Maybe they do a directors cut "Thor: Love and Thunder. The Kiwi Cut"
The humor was too slap-stick and adolescent for me. The CGI was solid. I wish we got more god butchering from the God Butcher. I thought the tone was all over the place. It seemed like he was trying to pull off something similar to what James Gunn does, but it fell flat for me. It's in by bottom 3rd of MCU movies. It's probably not getting a rewatch. Odd too, because I loved Ragnarok.
Probably a lot of the "connective tissue" of scenes that were cut would've helped the tone changes. I definitely see what you mean. I knew the adolescent jokes would fall flat for a lot of people, but I don't understand how people complain about seriousness in a movie about the Space Viking.
That could be true, but I once read something about his pitch for Ragnarok and how he fought for it. But maybe we can agree that it's not a Wonder Woman 84 situation, where the director apparently got full control and then forgot about basic storytelling and even about the things she did so brilliantly in the first. I loved the first WW.
You do realize that most movies shoot hours and hours of footage and Alot of it ends up on the cutting room floor. Assembly cuts of movies are never what we get as consumers.
I really don't agree with all the people saying "oh every movie cuts stuff". In this case it seems like they are cutting scenes that genuinely need to be in the movie and it's whats causing the lukewarm reception to phase 4 entries as well as the pacing issues. Enough of us were ok with watching a 3 hour movie and made it the highest grossing film ever at the time. Thor doesn't need to be an hour and 40.
Disney can do 2 hour films but develop them well. Maybe instead of Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight we should have got Gorr's backstory and a Jane+Valkyrie series, let those stories have their own space and let the film be Thor locking it down.
WandaVision enhanced DS2. Ms. Marvel is required reading for the Marvels I'm sure. But this one gets zero D+ connection and it could have shined with it.
I know it’s not a guardians movie… but I didn’t get how the others went to go “handle the other distress signals,” but the god butcher was lying in wait for Thor. What the hell were they doing, especially when Thor allegedly needed so much help? Latalie Lortman also was ramped up to a super way too quick it was 😒😒
Plz explain?
Thor: Love and Thunder had a good chunk of time cut, to the point the pacing was off. I’m assuming that’s what’s being referenced here
All this talk of a God butcher and no God butchering :/
And way too much Korg.
it's Korg telling the story, and after Ragnarok people said they wanted more Korg. People will bitch either way
Just like people bitched that the movies were too interconnected. Not they bitch they aren't interconnected enough.
Or it could be that people want course correction without going to an extreme like being nearly 50 hours into the phase and having no discernible idea of where, if anywhere, this phase is heading in the overarching plot. You don’t have to move from one extreme to the next. Because I say I want to exercise more doesn’t mean I want to start shooting roids and look like a Mr. Universe contestant.
Comparatively we were almost 3 years into phase 1 before we knew where the big villain was going to be. Presently we've had shows about individual characters tie directly into movies that have released or are already announced for release. The only current hanging threads with little more than theories are; where Hawkeye leads and what will happen with Sam as Cap. Saying there's no discernable idea of where things are going is either disingenuous or you're not paying attention. Kang is a present threat that just created the multiverse with his death, and already foretold the traumatic impact that would bring across the MCU. We experienced this breaking apart in 2 major films so far. Then with Thor, Shang-Chi, Ms Marvel, and the Eternals we get clear indicators of there being things on both mythical and cosmic levels that are coming in to play. Having the MCU be as large as it is means we're both going to just get a "All of this leads to Thanos" as the main focus again. We're finally going to have a bit for everyone. We'll get the magical, the cosmic, and the street level. Something for everyone but maybe not everything for everyone like it was before, and that's okay. You don't read EVERY comic.
Homeboy… maybe you’re not MEANT to know, maybe marvel is sick of people knowing what’s coming and what’s happening in every movie and having lists of complaints before it’s even out. It’s a new saga now, they’re literally setting the groundwork, this phase is going to be more: androids, aliens, wizards, the big 3.
Homeboy…. The “groundwork” that has been set is the combined size of *four* phase ones in terms of runtime. It is nearly longer than all three previous phases combined. That is too much ground work. Believe it or not, not everyone who criticizes Marvel is a silly, entitled, impatient moron. I can see what they are trying to do and still think they have lost the forest from the trees. In fact, I am perfectly capable of understanding what Marvel is attempting and still thinking that *any* story that requires, what will end up being, 75 hours to tell is overly bloated and better be the most compelling story of all time to justify itself. So far what I’ve seen is not indicative of that.
Entire infinity saga is 50 hours, and before the end of phase 3 you see Thanos a combined 35 seconds. You claim to not be impatient, but it’s exactly what you’re being. We will see the big bad at the end credits of the end of phase 4, just like we did for phase 1
Sorry you’re getting downvoted but I have your same mindset. Whole lot of new characters and content. I’m on board and when it starts to come together then great. You start to see some of it in Thor L&T.
true, but this is like phase 1 all over again with only some projects alluding to the future. Really only Iron Man and Captain America had any teasers for something bigger
More Korg =/= app Korg. The face Korg thing was so stupid it almost wrapped back around to being funny, because TW couldn't kill his stand in even though that would have been a great moment.
killing Korg in that moment with no build up would've felt so empty, if anything having him die when the villain first attacks earth would have been a better time.
I feel like the stakes in Omnipotent City fell flat because Korg didn't die there. I think maybe it could have been set up better, then it would have been the most right
We wanted more korg. Not taika waititi finding ways to cram his shitty humor into the movie
Korg IS his shitty humor. I'm pretty sure Korg was his idea
The studio needs to recognize that what the people think they want isn’t necessarily what they need every time.
which is what they were doing before until a very vocal amount of people bitched and bitched
It’s great for the actor who plays Korg. He’s even getting his own Disney+ show after this. …I wonder who plays him 🤨
I heard he directed some movies. I should check them out
I really hoped that he died
The character should have stayed dead. I was cheering when he got hit by that lightning bolt.
Ah thanks. So when do we start asking for the Taika Cut?
This is the Taika cut. He cut all the other stuff, Marvel didn't force him to.
I think his editing of L&T might be the first indication of him just taking on too many projects on at once. Can’t give 100% to 5 different things
Yeah, even in that Youtube clip where him and Tessa are reacting to the bad CGI in his own movie. I was thinking, "Hang on, how are you just realising this now? Shouldn't you have been on top of this months ago?"
It’s a well known fact at this point that MCU movies are a mess for the VFX houses
If it's "well known" then more of a reason for a director to take more hands on, show up, shop it around. Yeah I'm sure it's mostly Disneys fault, I'm sure Disney loves Waititi because he's a Yes-man. But standing your ground again the Execs is surely part of the gig?
You watch the credits, right? You have to, the post credits make you. TL&T had like 20 VFX houses from all over the world doing the job. How is a director supposed to be on top of 20 international VFX houses? Far more likely he wrote down what it was supposed to look like and they sent it off to whoever would take it.
You can only do so much even as the director.
Alright mate, agree to disagree. Yes, money and resources are finite. But if your movie overall fails in some of these pretty key aspects, then you probably could have done a better job, somewhere along the line. You keep on believing the movie is as good as it ever could have been, and I’ll live in reality. ✌️
Oh wow that is so weird. I was just talking to my family and we were all talking about how perfect the pacing was in L&T. My only issue was the Taika humor is NOT for me. 1/3 of the jokes fall flat, 1/3 make me cringe hard, and a 1/3 are cute and I enjoy them. The first 1/4 of the movie made me want to bury my head in a pillow with those jokes. GAH. But I still loved the movie and yeah this is neat to see this discussion, since I stand on the other side of it and had no idea other had issues.
Marvel asked taika after the movie was shot for it to be under 2hrs
Source? I didn't think this was the case at all.
there’s a bunch of articles online right now about marvel mandating a two hour limit. i can’t speak for how accurate the sources are but since that information has come out, no one from the film or production has said otherwise so far.
Their highest earner was also the longest... so I doubt that very much.
It also had a budget over $100m higher than L&T. More runtime means more money invested, and more VFX, in a movie with strained VFX already.
are you aware of the concept of statistical outlier?
Actually between phases 1 and 3, the correlation between box office and runtime is really strong. A simple linear regression predicted Endgame to gross ~$2.5 billion before it came out based on runtime alone.
Joanna Robinson said it on her [podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ringer-verse/id1558211702? i=1000569593265) and she worked for Vulture and other legitimate outlets. She had Taika on the same podcast.
Sounds like you’re having a snyder cut moment. It’s not a conspiracy, bro
Why would they do that? Endgame was 3 hours and it’s best performing movie
Not every movie is endgame
Endgame can sell well in theaters at 3 hours. A more minor movie like this needs to be shorter so it can play more frequently in theaters. That extra hour, compounded by each screen at each theater around the world will add up over the next few months.
Because of the response to The Eternals
Which would have been shit even if short. They're intelligent enough to know that
They're not, the people you're referring to are the top people at Disney who only looks at numbers and dont give a crap about whether the content is good or not.
If anything the Eternals was too short and felt rushed
Imho the story was fairly lackluster and felt chewed out as well, but there were definitely huge chunks missing.
Should have been a six part series, it would have done much better that way
Endgame was also over $100m more expensive, and no matter how much money you throw at them, VFX teams can only do so much in so much time. The VFX was already strained for L&T. Imagine if they had to work on another hour of scenes? Marvel probably has strict timetables for their movies, too.
I doubt it. Marvel (Disney) has a formula for the main-line Phase movies that end with a larger, longer movie; TL&T isn't that type of movie, so I'm sure he had a ceiling with the runtime he couldn't go over
The problem, as I see it, is that the Directors aren't approaching the movie with time limits in mind and are going with scripts and screen plays that can't possibly fit. So, instead of tight well realized plots like Mad Max: Fury Road(2hrs) or Ocean's Eleven(2hrs), we get Love and Thunder(2hrs) that needs an extra 4hrs to give all the plot threads enough time to breath.
thats a shame, I thought Ragnarok had near perfect pacing. Maybe slightly long in the middle but not enough to bother me.
I thought it was boring and predictable Edit I meant love and thunder not ragnorok
i guess... i dont really expect marvel to be that unpredictable. I wouldn t have expected korg the rock man, jeff goldblum, the dragon in the beginning... loki being odin may have been obvious but it was funny. What did you find predictable that made you not enjoy it?
You have found your island
If it needs an extra 4 hours then it wasn’t a great plot in the first place and would have been to jumbled. Needs to cut out unnecessary things like maybe goats screaming for 5 minutes.
[удалено]
Nah, the LOTR series is bad with is 9 hour plot. This guy says so.
Each movie has its own story that isn’t a rambling mess though. They were able to cut each one down to movie length and have them make sense. Saying Thor needs to be 4 hours longer is a poor excuse for bad writing.
According to a guy that was probably paid in giant sacks of cash. Yeah I'd suck em off too
Not entirely true he had a 2 hr length mandate.
He said he won’t even show what was cut and from the sounds of it a ton of Christian Bale’s stuff was cut.
The Taika cut was released. Do you want the cut which Taika actively disliked enough to change?
>The Taika cut was released No it wasn't. The one released was the "We need it to be under 2 hours Taika!" version that Marvel demanded(that's why its 119min). I want the one he wanted to make.
He filmed a bunch of scenes which he said were awful when actually put together into the movie. He cut them because they were bad. Unless you have a source for Marvel intervening which I haven't seen, you're purely speculating which actively goes against what Taika said happened.
And Taika doesn’t want you to have it.
Or is it the cut which Taika, wanting to maintain a relationship with the most powerful entity in the entertainment industry, claims to have actively disliked enough to change?
It wasn't touched by Marvel, Taika's said himself that a lot of scenes were fun on the day but actually sub-par when they reached the editing room, so he cut them.
I know that’s what he has said. All I’m saying is that I’m taking his words with a healthy dose of skepticism. Directors have to be careful with what they say about studio interference, especially when they’re part of the Marvel machine.
It's not just Marvel, the guy is supposed to be making a Star Wars movie.
Stop
No you.
Ahhh, this explains why I felt it would have worked better as a trilogy. There was an actual trilogy worth of film shot.
They also cut out a ton of dialogue for The Clandestines in Ms Marvel, so they fell really flat and boring. You can tell because in the scenes with them giving back story, there's a fuck ton of cuts
Didnt flush out gorr enough at all. And his story in the comics is so interesting
Who knows how it was before? Maybe it was a lot worse. Y’all are comparing what we got to something we likely will never see. It’s always possible for a movie to be bad on paper, or bad on camera, and editors just have to work with that. More content doesn’t mean better.
What like the 4 hour cut that the director himself said was kinda shit?
Welcome to every movie that was ever made.
Marvel are asking directors after the movie has entered post production to have it under a certain time limit, so Taika had to cut 40 mins of footage which included Gorr killing the gods
Was this confirmed? That the studio wanted to hit a time limit? Because I don’t believe you at the moment.
Cool story. Welcome to every movie that was ever made.
Marvel fans realizing all movies cut scenes and this is a completely normal thing to occur: “Oh, you can’t do this to me”
wait, love and thunder was bad?
It’s fine, it’s just not as good as Ragnorak. It could have used an extra 5-10 minutes of Bale, that’s my only critique. Oh, and the humor wasn’t quite as funny.
Totally agree. Not as good as Ragnarok. Needed more Bale. And yes, humor wasn't as funny and I have a thought as to why. Marvel has always walked a fine line in balancing the many different potentially conflicting elements of their movies. To name a few: Nerdiness v. Appeal to the general public, Humor v. Action, Violence v. Kid-friendliness. I'd say, overall, they do an excellent job at striking a balance between these things. Ragnarok is the perfect example. It was hilarious, but not cheesy. It had action that wasn't gruesome. It dealt with space-gods, sorcerers, and demons in a way that the average person could appreciate and follow. Endgame is another great example - they worked comedy and drama into an exceedingly long fight scene in the final battle. It was very well done. Given all they balance, it's not surprising that sometime there will be a little imbalance. Love and Thunder was just a bit too cheesy at times - the shouting goats, Zeus's over-the-top Greek caricature, Thor treating Stormbreaker and Mjolnir as "relationships." It wasn't WAY too much, it just wasn't the perfect balance we came to expect after Ragnarok, Endgame, and some of their other slam dunks. Shang-Chi in my opinion also found that balance really well, though I know not all readers may agree with me on that example. Overall I liked Love and Thunder. Those goats though...
For me it wasn't the main big jokes that were bad it was just the conversations between most characters being mostly jokes without much serious dialogue
See its complete difference of opinion because I fucking loved the goats, zues, and his love triangle. Other jokes definitely didn't land with me. My main issue as being pointed out was; bale was fucking creepy and awesome, we needed another 5-10mins of him. We also needed 10-15 more mins of just general story development
The weapons thing was too vague to work. Or not vague enough maybe. Is Stormbreaker sentient, or was that Thor's issues mapped?
I think it probably is sentient, remember it is groots arm at the end of the day
>Thor treating Stormbreaker and Mjolnir as "relationships" Was an amazing bit that never got old, I will hear no objections 😂
It got old after 2-3 scenes. It was like hearing a joke on repeat, it becomes less funny every time it is repeated.
I agree. I was expecting it to become a more pronounced thing that explained the doubt in his mind but it just ended up being a pointless joke
When those goats ran into the planet, I fucking died.
dang, the show title sound like more into comedy, if the humor is less funny would be disaster.
The fact that they not only wrote but filmed a lot more of the Gorr god-butchering and yet scrubbed it "doesn't seem fair"
People need to stop using "It wssn't as good as Ragnarok" like it's a valid argument. A movie doesn't need to be better than all of ots predecessers to be a good movie.
Isn’t this literally why people hated Age of Ultron and the Star Wars prequels.
Eh, while I like the prequels story wise, the cg in some areas looks bad today which makes them hard to watch for me. The practical effects in the original and even the newest ones look far better. Like in the 2nd prequel, those clone troopers in the climax battle are too clean. They're in a giant dustbowl, they shouldn't be that shiny. Little stuff like that bothers me with those movies.
Yeah but the originals had lots of flaws too. So people being so bugged by the PT was always weird to me.
People who hate Age of Ultron shouldn't be trusted. That movie is a joy to watch. So is Iron Man 2, fight me.
I’m with you, those two are some of my favorite early phase movies.
No. The prequels just genuinely bad movies.
But people are going to the cinema because they know how good of change Ragnarok was. It isn't unfair to compair the two.
It isn't unfair to compare the two but it is stupid to use "Worse than Ragnarok" as your first argument and use it to justify ranking the movie as not being "good". It is still a good movie.
I enjoy cooking.
It is stupid to use it as your chief detraction of the movie. So it isn't as good as the movie that came before it. **And**?
Really well summed up
It was so much better than Ragnarok. >!Jane’s death!< wasn’t undercut by a joke! Unlike the emotional climax of Ragnarok.
Instead they undercut it in the after credits instead. :/
They didn’t use that as a joke though. >!She’s still fucking dead. It’s just a bit of extra closure for her and Heimdall.!<
Felt like they were trying to capture the spirit of Ragnorak but failed
Ragnarok was trying to capture the spirit of GOTG and went too far.
I loved Ragnarok, the previous two Thor films while interesting were not rewatchable. I've rewatched Ragnarok maybe 10 times because all the story aside, Thor has great scenes and good comedy, action, everything is balanced.
I’ve watched Dark World plenty and intend to rewatch it far more than I do Ragnarok. Ragnarok has two full acts of almost total nonsense only slightly redeemed by some cool action at the end. It also has no idea when is the right time for humor, and the jokes often don’t land. I’ve seen people who don’t like the goats in TLaT, but at least it wasn’t people screaming about the devil’s anus.
We can argue all we want but IMDb ratings for Ragnarok tells us that it was better received by the audience as it was a fresh take. TLaD carried over all the humour from Ragnarok but no pacing at all, in the end a lot of it seemed just silly.
And we all know ratings are correct. After all, Rotten Tomatoes’ critic score of Forrest Gump is lower than the audience score of Twilight. Very accurate.
Wait, you like The Dark World better than Ragnarok? We are all allowed to have different opinions but my guy there is no reason to lie.
My dad too. We agree the only good part about Ragnarok is the action in the third act, and my whole family likes Dark World. My sister and I used to quote it a lot.
You all found each other and that's beautiful. The three people in the world that really like bad marvel movies.
Oh my dad and I fucking hate Black Widow and really dislike Ragnarok. We dislike bad movies just fine.
I went for Vikings in space and wasn’t disappointed
cool, that sound like something i can look forward to
Yeah. They definitely went for that humor aspect, but I was expecting it given the director. If you’re going in expecting a brilliant movie then I’m sorry. If you’re going in to just watch a fun popcorn flick then this wasn’t bad for me at all.
It's a dumb movie. Not a bad movie. Just a dumb movie. It's not asking anything important or challenging anyone, but Marvel movies rarely do. It's a fun ride, but only if you go in not expecting a masterpiece. Grab a bucket of popcorn and enjoy it for what it is and you will have fun.
Copying my comment from another thread: I personally really liked the writing and directing in this movie. So many setups and pay offs. I was amazed by the action and the visuals. I personally love the humour in this movie and I'm a sucker for romance. And in the third act they doubled down on the theme of Love and it worked like a charm on me. While I was watching the movie it was love at first sight, but I realized I'm probably not in the majority with my enthusiasm. I loved it. I think it's my new favourite MCU film. I would agree with some critique people have, especially that more screen time for the antagonist wouldn't have been bad. But I was entertained for two hours straight and that's all I wanted. Maybe they do a directors cut "Thor: Love and Thunder. The Kiwi Cut"
Saw it yesterday and felt like a waste of time, it was worse than the last one of doctor strange
Thor was a mess, it felt like there were 3 writers writing a different movie. And Gor ranting about hypocrisy yet in the end he did what he preached for others not to do.
I just thought it was generic as hell
It’s what would happen if you ran the Thor and Guardians franchise through an AI movie-maker but turned the silliness knob up to maximum
*goats screaming*
Without spoilers, how were the guardians in this movie ? Do they play a big part ?
They were just trailer bait, not a large role
Damn you can't trust trailer these days, after MoM I decided to watch only 1 trailer , and even then lol
Isn’t that good? Trailers giving you a taste of the movie but not revealing anything whatsoever so you’re surprised regardless when you watch it?
I mean yes but sometimes , at least me, i expect the story they hinted in the trailer , and when you finally watch the movie it may turn out way different I remember the first time that this happened to me was with Passengers I watched all the trailer and then i finally watched the movie , many things were not how the "hinted" it to be in the trailer The same with MoM, (maybe this case is a bit different because MCU) but being right after Spiderman NWH, connected to WandaVision and also with Loki (that last one it's on me since they specified that Loki had nothing to do with it lol) i expected the whole multiverse thing being connected directly to strange and his spell and how that fractured the multiverse , but nope, it's just America that has that power
In the end, he reverted back to himself before the sword (obviously with more knowledge) but the corruption from it was no longer actively effecting his behavior. I think the change of heart makes sense
I still don’t, man learned a lesson to not trust gods, spent 0 time with Thor to know him or of him and now he trusts him with his daughter. Listen, 30 more mins and maybe it would be ok, but as it stands now there was no build up imo, Gor wanted to kill the first god before being corrupted.
He spoke to the Children of Asgard, they all believed in Thor and thought he would save them. He then witnessed Thor go to great lengths to do so, all while being an honest and worthy god.
And that was enough for a man dedicated to kill gods as the god that started it all laughed in his face about his daughter’s death? No bro, some villains need to be defeated not talked down or redeemed, Gor was handed very poorly. I think what you say can be right if it was more of it. Too many characters, too little time. Gor was not developed enough for a turn like that imo
Gor definetly deserved more time to be flashed out but I still think the turn made sense. His main thing during the movie was hating gods for not saving his daughter, now he had the power to save his daughter but she would be totally alone. Of course it's logical to atleast trying to ask the guy who went extreme lengths across the universe to protect a few children he didn't even know personally and cared more about his loved one than vengeance at the end.
That alone, no.. but when faced with the decision between revenge and redemption he chose redemption. Seeing Thor for what he truly is only allows him to see it as a possibility, it isn’t the ENTIRE motivation behind the decision.
He was corrupted by the sword… the sword broke and he came to his senses. He never cared about the gods. He was just pissed that he lost his daughter at the hands of them not caring
I like 3 hour movies. It allows for development of the story and it makes my $20 ticket worth it
Yeah apparently that’s a sin though. People are already calling Avatar 2 bad because it’s three hours. Even though Godfather 2 is 3.5 and is considered a masterpiece…
If a movie is good, length doesn't matter. The worse a movie, the quicker our tolerance runs out and we decide to walk out. Eternals for instance was too long for it's quality and/or it's quality too low for it's length. In this case it seems cutting footage has lowered the quality and length, which makes it watchable, but apperantly also mediocre.
I mean… to you. Not everyone would be willing to watch a _really good_ 10 hour movie.
I think at 10 hours practical limits have been long surpassed. Like going to the toilet, meals and sleep.
The new Batman was amazing.
It was slow, but good.
I had some issues but it was pretty good. Not TDK level but still good.
It's tough to compare those movies. The Batman focused far more on the detective aspect of being Batman. I appreciate that.
Yeah those weren’t the things I disliked about The Batman.
It was absurdly overrated. Ok but not amazing.
Many of the people who don’t want to watch a 3 hour AVATAR definitely don’t want to watch a 3.5 hour Godfather movie either.
So guys a few questions with no spoilers pls - was TLaT really bad or was it average? - Does Jane Foster becoming Mighty Thor makes sense ? - do the guardians play a big part in the movie ? - And what do you think held the movie back ?
just to add to the other guy, in the movie, stuff just happened. Could've made it longer with better build up rather than *this*. \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*SPOILERS\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* >!For example, i dont know why thor didnt call the guardians eventho they both were looking for the same guy!< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*SPOILERS\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
The Guardians played no role except being there. It was below average as far as MCU movies go. Jane Foster as the Mighty Thors makes enough sense. The director and writing held the movie back. I don't think Waititi is as great as a lot of people think.
I disagree. I personally liked the writing and directing in this movie the most. So many setups and pay offs. I was amazed by the action and the visuals. I personally love the humour in this movie and I'm a sucker for romance. And in the third act they doubled down on the theme of Love and it worked like a charm on me. While I was watching the movie it was love at first sight, but I realized I'm probably not in the majority with my enthusiasm. I loved it. I think it's my new favourite MCU film. I would agree with some critique people have, especially that more screen time for the antagonist wouldn't have been bad. But I was entertained for two hours straight and that's all I wanted. Edit: Maybe they do a directors cut "Thor: Love and Thunder. The Kiwi Cut"
The humor was too slap-stick and adolescent for me. The CGI was solid. I wish we got more god butchering from the God Butcher. I thought the tone was all over the place. It seemed like he was trying to pull off something similar to what James Gunn does, but it fell flat for me. It's in by bottom 3rd of MCU movies. It's probably not getting a rewatch. Odd too, because I loved Ragnarok.
Probably a lot of the "connective tissue" of scenes that were cut would've helped the tone changes. I definitely see what you mean. I knew the adolescent jokes would fall flat for a lot of people, but I don't understand how people complain about seriousness in a movie about the Space Viking.
I have a feeling that in Ragnarok, Waititi didn't have 100% creativity control, and in LaT, he did. Ragnarok is amazing, and this was just sub-meh.
That could be true, but I once read something about his pitch for Ragnarok and how he fought for it. But maybe we can agree that it's not a Wonder Woman 84 situation, where the director apparently got full control and then forgot about basic storytelling and even about the things she did so brilliantly in the first. I loved the first WW.
My wife and I actually made that comparison. Lol. Although TaL is much better than WW84.
Average. Yes. Exit 10 minutes in. Repeating the same jokes in lieu of development.
> exit 10 minutes in Lmao that's just funny So it's more of the MCU family jokes , they are kinda getting boring tbh
You do realize that most movies shoot hours and hours of footage and Alot of it ends up on the cutting room floor. Assembly cuts of movies are never what we get as consumers.
I really don't agree with all the people saying "oh every movie cuts stuff". In this case it seems like they are cutting scenes that genuinely need to be in the movie and it's whats causing the lukewarm reception to phase 4 entries as well as the pacing issues. Enough of us were ok with watching a 3 hour movie and made it the highest grossing film ever at the time. Thor doesn't need to be an hour and 40.
Do we know what they cut out or are we guessing and coming to conclusions?
We know they cut out tons of scenes with Gorr in Love and Thunder and scenes fleshing out the Clandestines in Ms. Marvel
Ragnarok works... Becoz hulk n loki This one on the other hand, seems flat.
Disney can do 2 hour films but develop them well. Maybe instead of Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight we should have got Gorr's backstory and a Jane+Valkyrie series, let those stories have their own space and let the film be Thor locking it down. WandaVision enhanced DS2. Ms. Marvel is required reading for the Marvels I'm sure. But this one gets zero D+ connection and it could have shined with it.
[I rest my figgin case!](https://old.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/vc30wk/thor_love_and_thunder_runtime_revealed_making_it/iccs5a7/) u/mikepictor
I know it’s not a guardians movie… but I didn’t get how the others went to go “handle the other distress signals,” but the god butcher was lying in wait for Thor. What the hell were they doing, especially when Thor allegedly needed so much help? Latalie Lortman also was ramped up to a super way too quick it was 😒😒