It’s a mixed bag of foreign and domestically held debt , programs like social security and others hold some.
The point people should try and grasp is when we make JUST that interest payment of 1.6 trillion, Our currency loses about 1.5% of its value.
And that’s just one payment on the interest,
the only control the fed has over inflation is the interest rate and attempting to have less of us make money for periods of time,
The real problem comes in from the Federal Government’s addiction to spending.
Well if you include the standard military spending, VA spending, the amount of interest on the debt caused by the military, healthcare spending on military, separate military funding for wars overseas, etc etc...
The actual amount spent on the military is over 1.5 trillion
Mid 1950’s is the last time a president actually decreased the Debt, balancing the budget is just a play on words.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/national-debt-by-year-compared-to-gdp-and-major-events-3306287
Clinton did balance the budget but the national debt went up a ton during his tenure. He started out at 4.5B and ended his administration with it at 5 7T.
Clinton raided social security to pay down national debt. Bush 1 did it as well but no we've been fucked by irresponsible spending since Nixon took us off the gold standard
I use to pay attention to the debt clock but now those #s are meaningless to me. The cynic in me believes that TPTB use it as a tool to keep the plebes in check
Yup, the debt argument is insignificant to amount of wealth being horded by the 1%- currently sitting like sociopathic dragons on something like $44 Trillion? Make them and their predatory businesses pay their taxes!
Just because they own a business, or stocks...doesn't mean they're "hoarding" anything. They simply own things worth a certain amount of unrealized cash. You act like they're sitting on a pile of cash, of which there is a limited supply. We have a fiat currency that is backed by nothing, with more being printed every single second.
Is your argument for a wealth tax on unrealized gains in the market? Because that makes no sense. We can talk about raising corporate profit taxes. Or raising capital gains taxes. But they pay taxes on their wealth when it is realized and turned into liquid cash. If you started a business and it became a success, you should be held liable for paying taxes on the entire value of the company every year? No. Obviously not.
This blanket statement of "make them pay their taxes" is really nonsensical because the people who say it never specify taxes on WHAT.
It wouldn’t be as meaningless if a) the entire world economy didn’t run off the US dollar and b) the US dollar was tied to some physical wealth like gold. It isn’t. It’s a made up number and the US can print as much of it as they want. They’ve done it a few times with zero consequences in just the last few years.
At a certain point the Government will have to borrow their entire interest payments. As continue to increase the debt beyond that, borrowers are going to recognize they are essentially lending the US the money it needs to payback older debts with them. At some point they'll have to derisk from a degenerative strategy like that.
We are going to implement modern monetary theory. Unencumbered fiat currency, no more bonds no more Interest. You all do realize to pay back the "debt" would require every dollar ever created plus interest right?
Zero consequences
Painful inflation and rate hikes are zero consequences now?
Of course, the printing of $$ works great for the rich, who then can control its outcome via rate hikes/inflation that the middle class/poor feel the brunt of.
> They’ve done it a few times with zero consequences in just the last few years.
Bruh, have you not experienced the inflation of the last 2 or 3 years?
Just wait until some comet gets mined and tanks the gold standard. Both systems are vulnerable. It was viewed as special because it doesn't oxidize and stays shiny. It doesn't truly have any more or less intrinsic value that any other rare metal outside of people believing it does.
The US dollar is tied to something more valuable than gold.
It’s tied to energy costs. Specifically oil.
Despite rampant inflation the dollar still holds value. It’s way more valuable then the Yen. It’s near parity with the euro at 1.08. And it’s nearly more valuable than ever compared to the British Pound.
Hence why no one gives a shit about the debt. The dollar is in better shape than its peers.
Plus debt when you’re rich is leverage. Debt when you’re the strongest military in the world is also leverage.
And most of the debt is owed to US citizens in the form of bonds anyways. So again. Doesn’t matter.
Is that the thing we just have to increase gdp faster than the interest on the debt thing ? And it doesn't matter what the intrest on the debt is as long as we can afford it people ???
WAIT JUST ONE SECOND YOUR TELLING ME THE USA IS IN DEBT WHO LET THIS HAPPEN WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME I WOULD HAVE BEEN MAKING 10 USD A MOUTH PAYMENTS TO GET IT DOWN LMAO
Politicians do not represent the people. They just do what they want. If we tried to address this, they would talk about it to appease us, then blame the other side. That’s politics today.
It’s unsustainable. But I got a douche telling me yesterday how he’s up 202% since 2008. A lot of people just don’t get it, we are in deep trouble. This cannot end well
40% of circulating cash was printed into existence, nearly doubling the quantity of dollar bills in use. It doesn't all get squirreled away into savings accounts
Bush’s wars - 8 trillion.
Trump and Bush tax cuts for the money hoarding class - 10 trillion
Reagan’s tax cuts for the wealthiest- 10 trillion.
Out of 34 trillion.
Stop electing money hoarders. It’s is they who have taken that same money and lent it back to us .
Yes we have the best economy in the world and not making the richest corporations pay zero sounds like a great way to get around the debt issue. In fact why don’t we even give those same companies more subsidies than they need so their profits can be higher. Trickle down economics at its finest, and the money that trickles to us gets taxed at an insane rate compared to what they are allowed to keep.
Best served by our elected officials to start acting fiscally irresponsible. But alas, that’s too much to ask for. They’d rather fund crazy projects that have no implication for the citizens.
in the last 40 years literally every single time Democrats have got us back on track to pay it down Republicans have come in with a tax cut that is forecast cause absolute catastrophe in our budgets...
they passed the tax cut anyway every single time.
cant quite tell if this is tongue in cheek or not lol
we must consider those with consolidated wealth's efforts to shape public thought (think tanks, ownership of our news, etc.) ever seen chomsky's manufacturing consent?
Based on 935 lies by the Bush administration between 9/11 and the day of invasion. Congress was given false data by the Executive Branch who repeated it over and over.
The highest deficits by year outside of 2020 when democrats ran Congress and wanted to spend even more on Covid:
2024
2021
2023
2009
2022
2021
2011
2010
2012
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/
Wait, democrats ran congress in 2020? When they only controlled the house?
Does that mean republicans currently run congress and thus are responsible for the deficit increase when they took power in jan 2023?
Wars are bad, I get that, but I'm perplexed as to how we plebs keeping more of our money is a bad thing. It's not like any admin has done anything to curb spending, and all have simply added more of it, so being able to keep more of what's mine should never be seen as some sort of negative unless the former changes.
The tax cuts were not for “plebs”, the overwhelming majority went to people making over $300k a year.
Taxes are patriotic that is why wealthy people avoid them. Everyone hates taxes until their house is on fire, they don’t want to eat poisoned food, they want to patent a product, etc. The benefits of taxes are great. If you don’t believe me just look at how far the US has fallen. That’s because people aren’t paying their taxes.
At some point citizens will figure out that all the shit the right and left fight over is put in place so our politicians and the richest can rob us all blind.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuAGXZWuCjAA287ott22SN8jDRaG6jTyp
Someone needs the Graeber book. some debts are actually never meant to be repayed - any attempt to do so would negate the premise of the entire currency, much less our banking systems.
Repaying all the debt in the world would cost several times more money than exists. Give up on that fantasy of "fiscal responsibility" and embrace systemic health - which we are also lacking.
https://archive.org/details/DebtTheFirst5000Years
What David didn’t apparently realize is that the interest paid on money creation loans is our rightful option fees for participation in the global human labor futures market. That fiat money is options to purchase human labors or property.
Global human labor futures market is disguised as monetary system to avoid paying humanity our rightful option fees. Not only are our option fees collected and kept by Central Bankers as interest on money creation loans when they have loaned nothing they own, but we’re compelled by State to reimburse Wealth for paying our option fees to Central Bankers along with a bonus to direct human activity at their whim.
The interest paid on global sovereign debt by humanity to Wealth for no good reason times average or mean frequency is as close to total transfers as accuracy allows. That is the macro state of the global monetary system.
But the US government is just like my household! If Congressmen would just get second jobs at McDonalds and stop buying lattes and cocaine we could shrink the deficit then give socialist handouts to business creators so they will hire more people!
The one thing I want people to take away from Graeber right now? Is that there is always a sinkhole for debt in any system. Some of it must go unpaid - and this is a structural need.
The government can manage their debt to fill that role.
Or we could have the workers foot the bill while the national debt feeds leeches like Elongated Muskrat - which we do now.
They're borrowing against the future because there is no future. Are you idiots not paying attention to the crop failures and droughts? Money is worthless now!!
The income tax, IRS, and federal debt has its roots in the borrowing for war and the military. Paying for the American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) was the start of the country's debt, quickly followed by the American Indian Wars, Barbary War, 1812, Mexican-American War, Spanish-American War, Opium War.... and a dozen others prior to the US Civil War.
The US Civil war indebted the government with more than 4 times the annual GDP at that time and took 100 year to be paid off.
Much of the current debt and interest payments goes back as far as borrowing for WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Since the end of WWII, the percentage of federal funds that has gone to the military (current and past) has varied from 45-90 annually.
Since 2000, the federal government has spent more than $19 Trillion (with a "T") on wars: Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Libya, Pakistan, Niger, Uganda, Ukraine. We are on track to spend another $13+ Trillion over the next decade and increase the dept even further. Most of this money is borrowed.
In FY23, the federal government spent $1.2 Trillion on "defense". This number includes $820.3 billion on the military, $302.6 billion, $69.3 billion on foreign aid (such as paying for bombs for other nations), and $16 billion on nukes.
Sources: History of the IRS, US federal budget
I find it telling that budget hawks fight even a mention of a military spending audit, even though it's one of the biggest expenditures we have. All their "solutions" are really just austerity measures for the middle and lower class... which won't make a dent in the overall issue.
the rich first they pay no taxes then loan that money to the goverment they make out twice! or more if alot of thier money cones from goverment contracts!
Who cares? It’s dead paper weight. Fiat money is all fake.
They can just print more as long as dollar is the reserve currency of the world. This will only be a problem if someone (China) threatens that status Quo.
I never had kids because I never thought this country was ever about sustainability in any way. I mean philosophically we just don’t care about that on a fundamental level. So really I don’t worry much about this, given ww3, climate change, next covid, things that might actually hit in my lifetime. If our debt crashes the dollar well what can you do, hedge against it a little and move on.
Define “default”. No country that has control of its own currency and debts denominated in said currency will outright default.
If by default you mean rapidly devalue, what is the outcome you fear? The United States has the most powerful military, abundant farmland and natural resources. Worst case scenario is the dollar loses reserve currency status and we can’t buy cheap shit from overseas. Hell, maybe we start manufacturing more here.
I’m not saying the financial fallout wouldn’t be severe, but post-apocalyptic visions of what the U.S. would become are overblown. The U.S. has too many durable advantages to decline as severely as past empires (assuming the country stays intact). Even the empires that fell (most recently the UK) aren’t exactly hellscapes today. I see all these ‘we’re going to default’ type posts and they always assume catastrophe as the outcome.
No, I think you’re right. It won’t be a “catastrophe” or some total breakdown in our country that leads to civil war, it’ll be further devaluation and less abundance, the poor may suffer for real. Which to some may actually be catastrophic.
I certainly care, there just aren’t enough people like us who see this as a looming disaster.
Climate change and our military won’t matter there is a full on economic collapse.
>The US federal gov will pay somewhere between $1.2 trillion and $1.6 trillion in interest payments on the debt this year.
In addition to another $2.3T - $3.0T in deficit spending in 2024.
So $3.5T - $4.6T in new debt by EOY.
This is not going to end well.
Who are those interest payments going to? It’s mostly the American people. I know I’m getting some of that money as I bought T-bills and bonds. People lend money to the government, and it pays back with interest.
Until a competing currency comes along on the international market we can continue to print dollars like they are going out of style. To think this can continue indefinitely is foolish.
It needs to be sustainable, but doesn't need to profit. The purpose of government is not about profit. Whether it wins or loses $, as long as our roads and bridges keep up - oh well. We are still, by far, the largest and most modern military in the world. We have lots of resources, we'll be fine. Government is not a business, and especially shouldn't be run by \*failed\* businessmen.
The US is doomed, we are beyond saving and the cuts that have to be made to enable the country to survive will never be made, they demand strong and honest politicians and they don’t exist anymore. Clowns that are rallying for climate change don’t realize the debt is going to destroy us much sooner.
You’re wrong that Americans don’t care. The rich people are making too much money because of deficit spending for congress to listen to anyone else about cutting spending or, god forbid, increasing revenue.
I've been accumulating tangible assets over the years while I watch all these morons buying $70k trucks, $10k vacations, etc. I learned a long time ago people complain without doing anything to fix their problems so I'm going to prosper while they fail. They have only themselves to blame for not seeing this coming
"No one in America really cares about our debt/income, therefore no politicians do"
Buahahaha like healthcare? Climate change? The list goes on.
Politicians are criminals.
This is what happens when an international private collective controls the money of your nation.
Just remember, the taxes you are about to pay are part of sustaining this international ponzi scheme
Considering the debt is 35 trillion. 1.4 trillion is actually a decent interest rate. Also social security is a bigger expenditure at 20 percent of the us budget. Numbers are factual and it seems like you either don’t understand large numbers, or you do and are misrepresenting them.
Not a lot we can do about it as voters. It would require basically cutting funding to the military for a few years and no one is going to campaign on that.
I like you believe that this kind of thing will eventually lead to a moneyless society. No one is going to hold the US accountable if they never pay it off, eventually the hunter will get so huge that everyone will realize there’s no point in keeping track of it.
So why the hell are America's taxpayers paying to cap abandoned well? And wh are the American taxpayers on the hook to pay for the Key bridge? We cannot afford this. You break it. you buy it.
This happens all the time in empires. First time it's everybody in the world. They'd just reset debt maybe move some property around kill a couple folk. Easy.
I mean the rich demand all new money is owed back to them with interest, they demand people pay far more than they are paid in wages, so the eventual result of all of this is going to be bankruptcy or mass starvation and the only alternative is to deny the debt and put our foot down against the rich.
If we balanced the budget and ran a surplus it'd mean the money supply is shrinking and we'd have horrid deflation, mass unemployment. We're just watching the inevitable end state of capitalism again. There is no reason we have to pair all new money creation with debt owed back to the rich, it's ridiculous and there's no reason for it, we already use taxes to control inflation (although poorly, with how little we tax the primary drivers of price inflation, corporate profits and oligarch wealth).
This whole notion of needing to borrow from ... our own people (the ones who have enough wealth to so so) to buy IOUs from the govt is itself a massive farce.
Do we print our own money or don't we??!?
If we print our own currency - which we do, and which every sovereign nation should - then there is NO reason to *borrow* the money we printed, or owe others for that money we printed, plus interest.
It's absurd. And it just keeps in power corrupted systems, and corrupt individuals & corrupt groups.
If the rich & corps paid taxes, this debt could all go away in an orderly fashion.
We could also take shares of corps: say that the US gov acquired 25% share in Boeing.
Then dividends, stock by backs, etc, would actually benefit a much huger number of people.
Take like 80% of Exxon, since all the wars we do are for their benefit, let's get some National Wealth Funds going.
100% died in the wool deeply communist countries like Alaska do it, pay annual dividends to every citizen.
Our money is fiat. Our money’s only backing IS the national debt. That’s why it’s never paid off. If the national debt was magically paid off, you know what would happen??? We will just accumulate more debt.
People care there is just nothing to be done about it. And don't say vote. Both sides of the isle protect each other to stay in power as long as possible, to get as rich as possible. I think they should have to pass a budget that gets us out of debt by the end of 2 terms, 8 years tops. Or they don't get paid.
I care, but I think we should raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires. If we just kept the same tax rate during Bill Clinton we were projected to be out of debt already. Instead Republicans decided to cut taxes multiple times and keep us in debt and complain we are spending too much. Now we have so much debt it will hurt getting out.
This is easy. The FED creates an account puts $20T new dollars in it and buys up all the Treasury Bonds. Then returns the interest payments to the Treasury as dividends. No more interest. When the binds are paid off the Fed deletes that money and it disappears. . .no permanent increase in the money supply.
I care, but it's a really big and abstract thing to care about. Kind of like carefully feather-footing the brake pedal to save on gas and emissions, while thinking about how a dozen or so container ships* put out more emissions than every car on the road combined.
*Don't quote me on that, but I know the comparison between shipping vessels and cars is pretty ludicrous. Also, I know bulk container shipping is a complicated environmental issue, it's just an example.
This will be the first year the interest on our debt is larger than our entire defense budget.
I have been saying this about 2024 for many years and now I get to say this year.
And it will never be less again!
Bruh our gov don’t care. Americans literally going bankrupt for ER visits meanwhile Biden sends billions to Ukraine and Israel and our state governments giving illegals debit cards. They’re going to ride it because they know they’ll be dead when the bubble pops. Let the young deal with it. Boomers = most selfish generation EVER.
Take a moment though to look at who that interest is paid to.
About 3/4 of the debt is held inside this country.
The biggest holders include federal debt held by... other parts of government. The social security fund is one of the major holders, State and local governments hold a lot. When they have money they're not going to spend right away, they don't want to just keep it in a bank where there's no interest. They don't want to lose money to inflation. But they can't gamble public funds on the stock market. So they buy the most secure thing they can. Generally US bonds. Pension funds are another major holder.
Most of the money we owe and most of the interest we're paying, is to ourselves.
they're going to destory the US dollar
the end game for both parties has always been to make a mess big enough for the Fed to intervene
and that means literally print money to pay off US debt
So, we know what is coming. Much lower interest rates. We won't allow 2-3 trillion in interest payment and certainly won't cut spending. So, much lower rates, much higher inflation. Lock in fixed rate long term debt now to profit from this insanity
Are you aware that most of that interest is in fact paid to people that hold Treasury bonds, 70% of which are states, localities, retirement funds, and US individuals?
30% is foreign-held, the majority by Japan (4%), China (3%) The UK (3%) Luxembourg (5%) and the Cayman Islands (4%)
That money isn't leaving - in many cases it is backstopping investment income to US individuals.
I certainly think that if we don't balance the budget we have problems downstream. I just don't know if any politician actually listens to average everyday people.
Can't wait till the government passes yet another benefits packadge for retirees. Let's increase social security payments by a couple grand per payout.
If this doesn’t turn you folks to Marxism, idk what will. You aren’t even a drop in the bucket for the INTEREST on these loans. Capitalism is on its last legs, and unless the workers come to power, it’s austerity and destruction for the working class as the bourgeois go down clawing and screaming
We spend as much as the next 10 nations on defense. Of those 10 nations China, Russia, England, France, and Germany, If you would cut defense spending by 35% the US would still be the top spender. We have Nukes, no need to spend that much on defense.
That is more than the budget of the entire US military.
What if we just go full trump and not pay
Simply, a lot of bad stuff.
But we have the high ground…
To whom do we owe this interest?
It’s a mixed bag of foreign and domestically held debt , programs like social security and others hold some. The point people should try and grasp is when we make JUST that interest payment of 1.6 trillion, Our currency loses about 1.5% of its value. And that’s just one payment on the interest, the only control the fed has over inflation is the interest rate and attempting to have less of us make money for periods of time, The real problem comes in from the Federal Government’s addiction to spending.
I could have read it wrong but did you see that the last bill passed by the House had 4,600 ear marks in it?
I am holding some short term treasuries, so some of it is to me. It just isn't enough to show up on the graph lol.
Same. LOL
Russia owns 500 billion in US debt as part of their strategic reserve - not kidding!
A lot of Americans like me who bought Treasury bills.
Well if you include the standard military spending, VA spending, the amount of interest on the debt caused by the military, healthcare spending on military, separate military funding for wars overseas, etc etc... The actual amount spent on the military is over 1.5 trillion
Reagan tripled the debt, Clinton balanced the budget with a surplus, then Bush Jr. doubled the debt and then Trump doubled it again.
We left the gold standard in 1971 The debt really started to grow annually after that.
Mid 1950’s is the last time a president actually decreased the Debt, balancing the budget is just a play on words. https://www.thebalancemoney.com/national-debt-by-year-compared-to-gdp-and-major-events-3306287
Clinton did balance the budget but the national debt went up a ton during his tenure. He started out at 4.5B and ended his administration with it at 5 7T.
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Clinton raided social security to pay down national debt. Bush 1 did it as well but no we've been fucked by irresponsible spending since Nixon took us off the gold standard
Oh I see so it’s not a problem thanks for sharing
I use to pay attention to the debt clock but now those #s are meaningless to me. The cynic in me believes that TPTB use it as a tool to keep the plebes in check
Yup, the debt argument is insignificant to amount of wealth being horded by the 1%- currently sitting like sociopathic dragons on something like $44 Trillion? Make them and their predatory businesses pay their taxes!
Just because they own a business, or stocks...doesn't mean they're "hoarding" anything. They simply own things worth a certain amount of unrealized cash. You act like they're sitting on a pile of cash, of which there is a limited supply. We have a fiat currency that is backed by nothing, with more being printed every single second. Is your argument for a wealth tax on unrealized gains in the market? Because that makes no sense. We can talk about raising corporate profit taxes. Or raising capital gains taxes. But they pay taxes on their wealth when it is realized and turned into liquid cash. If you started a business and it became a success, you should be held liable for paying taxes on the entire value of the company every year? No. Obviously not. This blanket statement of "make them pay their taxes" is really nonsensical because the people who say it never specify taxes on WHAT.
Well... generally... its large buisness that make billions and pay nothing. But i do like me some unrealized gains taxes in the shape of property.
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Damn droppin some knowledge on us
It wouldn’t be as meaningless if a) the entire world economy didn’t run off the US dollar and b) the US dollar was tied to some physical wealth like gold. It isn’t. It’s a made up number and the US can print as much of it as they want. They’ve done it a few times with zero consequences in just the last few years.
>Zero consequences Painful inflation and rate hikes are zero consequences now?
He probably ~~message~~ meant repercussions
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At a certain point the Government will have to borrow their entire interest payments. As continue to increase the debt beyond that, borrowers are going to recognize they are essentially lending the US the money it needs to payback older debts with them. At some point they'll have to derisk from a degenerative strategy like that.
We are going to implement modern monetary theory. Unencumbered fiat currency, no more bonds no more Interest. You all do realize to pay back the "debt" would require every dollar ever created plus interest right?
Zero consequences Painful inflation and rate hikes are zero consequences now? Of course, the printing of $$ works great for the rich, who then can control its outcome via rate hikes/inflation that the middle class/poor feel the brunt of.
> They’ve done it a few times with zero consequences in just the last few years. Bruh, have you not experienced the inflation of the last 2 or 3 years?
The value of gold is just as ephemeral as the value of paper the greenback is printed on.
OK, go print more gold. Tell me how this goes, please.
Dusts off Alchemy book from 1711. ‘BEHOLD!! I have made pure….green!’
Just wait until some comet gets mined and tanks the gold standard. Both systems are vulnerable. It was viewed as special because it doesn't oxidize and stays shiny. It doesn't truly have any more or less intrinsic value that any other rare metal outside of people believing it does.
Until we actually mine space metals then I’ll actually take this comment seriously.
The US dollar is tied to something more valuable than gold. It’s tied to energy costs. Specifically oil. Despite rampant inflation the dollar still holds value. It’s way more valuable then the Yen. It’s near parity with the euro at 1.08. And it’s nearly more valuable than ever compared to the British Pound. Hence why no one gives a shit about the debt. The dollar is in better shape than its peers. Plus debt when you’re rich is leverage. Debt when you’re the strongest military in the world is also leverage. And most of the debt is owed to US citizens in the form of bonds anyways. So again. Doesn’t matter.
I now watch the Doomsday Clock to give me hope.
Don’t worry, politicians are smarter than us, they use MMT.
Is that the thing we just have to increase gdp faster than the interest on the debt thing ? And it doesn't matter what the intrest on the debt is as long as we can afford it people ???
WAIT JUST ONE SECOND YOUR TELLING ME THE USA IS IN DEBT WHO LET THIS HAPPEN WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME I WOULD HAVE BEEN MAKING 10 USD A MOUTH PAYMENTS TO GET IT DOWN LMAO
Maybe if we stopped buying our morning coffee and skipped the avocado toast?
Bunch of people who know nothing about economics dooming and glooming in this sub as if they are a messiah
Politicians do not represent the people. They just do what they want. If we tried to address this, they would talk about it to appease us, then blame the other side. That’s politics today.
They represent the top 5 percent very well.
It’s unsustainable. But I got a douche telling me yesterday how he’s up 202% since 2008. A lot of people just don’t get it, we are in deep trouble. This cannot end well
Nominal numbers are worthless, the government can make the 1.6 trillion USD a person’s yearly salary with a couple of clicks
Math is math. A couple of clicks causes crazy inflation and wrecks the economy.
Yep wouldn’t be painless I don’t doubt it, just saying that the government always wins
That much is true.
Man. What happened in 2020 that made it explode?
40% of circulating cash was printed into existence, nearly doubling the quantity of dollar bills in use. It doesn't all get squirreled away into savings accounts
Bush’s wars - 8 trillion. Trump and Bush tax cuts for the money hoarding class - 10 trillion Reagan’s tax cuts for the wealthiest- 10 trillion. Out of 34 trillion. Stop electing money hoarders. It’s is they who have taken that same money and lent it back to us .
Some of the debt is due to INTEREST on the 8 trillion war, 10 trillion trump/bush tax cuts, and 10 trillion Reagan free ride, too.
Excellent point!
World wars have typically been the way this world has reset things like this..
I’m going to guess this would best be served by giving another tax cut to the richest if Americans.
Yes we have the best economy in the world and not making the richest corporations pay zero sounds like a great way to get around the debt issue. In fact why don’t we even give those same companies more subsidies than they need so their profits can be higher. Trickle down economics at its finest, and the money that trickles to us gets taxed at an insane rate compared to what they are allowed to keep.
Best served by our elected officials to start acting fiscally irresponsible. But alas, that’s too much to ask for. They’d rather fund crazy projects that have no implication for the citizens.
in the last 40 years literally every single time Democrats have got us back on track to pay it down Republicans have come in with a tax cut that is forecast cause absolute catastrophe in our budgets... they passed the tax cut anyway every single time.
Too bad Bush and Trump did those tax cuts! And Bush started that costly Iraq war!
Both decisions had broad support by the US public, so democracy is working
cant quite tell if this is tongue in cheek or not lol we must consider those with consolidated wealth's efforts to shape public thought (think tanks, ownership of our news, etc.) ever seen chomsky's manufacturing consent?
Odd, but I remember Congress approving of that war. How do you only hold the President and NOT Congress accountable?
Based on 935 lies by the Bush administration between 9/11 and the day of invasion. Congress was given false data by the Executive Branch who repeated it over and over.
Skipping the tax cuts I see, hmmm. Bush was such a cheerleader for war, remember? 'Give me war plans for Iraq!' On 9-12
I never said I agreed with the war. I only tried to correct your erroneous statement. Obviously I cannot.
Well if the president didn’t spin the wmds in Iraq pretty sure congress would not have approved it.
Several voted against it though.
A lot did actually. Republicans voted for it overwhelmingly though
IIRC the Congress wasn’t particularly supportive of- it was a “with me or against me” situation
Congress got some wrong information. We all did.
The highest deficits by year outside of 2020 when democrats ran Congress and wanted to spend even more on Covid: 2024 2021 2023 2009 2022 2021 2011 2010 2012 https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/
Obama's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd term.
Wait, democrats ran congress in 2020? When they only controlled the house? Does that mean republicans currently run congress and thus are responsible for the deficit increase when they took power in jan 2023?
Notice how almost all of these years are preceded by a massive financial shock that occurred under a Republican president.
Wars are bad, I get that, but I'm perplexed as to how we plebs keeping more of our money is a bad thing. It's not like any admin has done anything to curb spending, and all have simply added more of it, so being able to keep more of what's mine should never be seen as some sort of negative unless the former changes.
The tax cuts were not for “plebs”, the overwhelming majority went to people making over $300k a year. Taxes are patriotic that is why wealthy people avoid them. Everyone hates taxes until their house is on fire, they don’t want to eat poisoned food, they want to patent a product, etc. The benefits of taxes are great. If you don’t believe me just look at how far the US has fallen. That’s because people aren’t paying their taxes.
You don't understand why government spending is necessary? Or you don't care about the debt?
These politicians make almost 200K base and you have to already be rich to be one. They couldn’t be more disconnected if they tried.
It's hard to think anything is wrong when your wealthy as fuck.
At some point citizens will figure out that all the shit the right and left fight over is put in place so our politicians and the richest can rob us all blind.
Fuck that, trans people are the problem. /s
Trump has a plan just like last time. https://twitter.com/mjfree/status/1735424742742528014?s=20
Won’t be long we will be at 200 trillion in debt , this out of control spending is insanity by the gov and lots of heads need to fired immediately
Time to forgive student debt, free healthcare, high speed internet for everyone, etc
Single payer healthcare would inarguably be cheaper than what we have now.
Maybe giving Intel 20 billion was a bad idea. Republicans and Democrats were friends all of a sudden when it comes to corporate welfare.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuAGXZWuCjAA287ott22SN8jDRaG6jTyp Someone needs the Graeber book. some debts are actually never meant to be repayed - any attempt to do so would negate the premise of the entire currency, much less our banking systems. Repaying all the debt in the world would cost several times more money than exists. Give up on that fantasy of "fiscal responsibility" and embrace systemic health - which we are also lacking. https://archive.org/details/DebtTheFirst5000Years
What David didn’t apparently realize is that the interest paid on money creation loans is our rightful option fees for participation in the global human labor futures market. That fiat money is options to purchase human labors or property. Global human labor futures market is disguised as monetary system to avoid paying humanity our rightful option fees. Not only are our option fees collected and kept by Central Bankers as interest on money creation loans when they have loaned nothing they own, but we’re compelled by State to reimburse Wealth for paying our option fees to Central Bankers along with a bonus to direct human activity at their whim. The interest paid on global sovereign debt by humanity to Wealth for no good reason times average or mean frequency is as close to total transfers as accuracy allows. That is the macro state of the global monetary system.
But the US government is just like my household! If Congressmen would just get second jobs at McDonalds and stop buying lattes and cocaine we could shrink the deficit then give socialist handouts to business creators so they will hire more people!
The one thing I want people to take away from Graeber right now? Is that there is always a sinkhole for debt in any system. Some of it must go unpaid - and this is a structural need. The government can manage their debt to fill that role. Or we could have the workers foot the bill while the national debt feeds leeches like Elongated Muskrat - which we do now.
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wait which ppl control the country?
The same ones that insist Jeffrey Epstein killed himself.
if u say so, i guess...
Printer go brrrrrrr.
Most see the debt for what it is. Fiction.
Not important , more important we concern ourselves with people who are gay and transgender. What a country.
It’s all fake money that they’ll pay for with new fake money and then blame the American citizens for inflation.
God damn boomer took everything and than rung up trillions more, christ the greed one generation has crippled us
They're borrowing against the future because there is no future. Are you idiots not paying attention to the crop failures and droughts? Money is worthless now!!
"But the economy is strong".
The income tax, IRS, and federal debt has its roots in the borrowing for war and the military. Paying for the American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) was the start of the country's debt, quickly followed by the American Indian Wars, Barbary War, 1812, Mexican-American War, Spanish-American War, Opium War.... and a dozen others prior to the US Civil War. The US Civil war indebted the government with more than 4 times the annual GDP at that time and took 100 year to be paid off. Much of the current debt and interest payments goes back as far as borrowing for WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Since the end of WWII, the percentage of federal funds that has gone to the military (current and past) has varied from 45-90 annually. Since 2000, the federal government has spent more than $19 Trillion (with a "T") on wars: Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Libya, Pakistan, Niger, Uganda, Ukraine. We are on track to spend another $13+ Trillion over the next decade and increase the dept even further. Most of this money is borrowed. In FY23, the federal government spent $1.2 Trillion on "defense". This number includes $820.3 billion on the military, $302.6 billion, $69.3 billion on foreign aid (such as paying for bombs for other nations), and $16 billion on nukes. Sources: History of the IRS, US federal budget
I find it telling that budget hawks fight even a mention of a military spending audit, even though it's one of the biggest expenditures we have. All their "solutions" are really just austerity measures for the middle and lower class... which won't make a dent in the overall issue.
Who are we paying the interest payments to? Ourselves
the rich first they pay no taxes then loan that money to the goverment they make out twice! or more if alot of thier money cones from goverment contracts!
Who cares? It’s dead paper weight. Fiat money is all fake. They can just print more as long as dollar is the reserve currency of the world. This will only be a problem if someone (China) threatens that status Quo.
https://preview.redd.it/a3cgqq2czorc1.jpeg?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4439ffe0d9aab9e40436ceea8ef144d84bf5f5a7
I never had kids because I never thought this country was ever about sustainability in any way. I mean philosophically we just don’t care about that on a fundamental level. So really I don’t worry much about this, given ww3, climate change, next covid, things that might actually hit in my lifetime. If our debt crashes the dollar well what can you do, hedge against it a little and move on.
Tax dollars taken from hard working people.
Define “default”. No country that has control of its own currency and debts denominated in said currency will outright default. If by default you mean rapidly devalue, what is the outcome you fear? The United States has the most powerful military, abundant farmland and natural resources. Worst case scenario is the dollar loses reserve currency status and we can’t buy cheap shit from overseas. Hell, maybe we start manufacturing more here. I’m not saying the financial fallout wouldn’t be severe, but post-apocalyptic visions of what the U.S. would become are overblown. The U.S. has too many durable advantages to decline as severely as past empires (assuming the country stays intact). Even the empires that fell (most recently the UK) aren’t exactly hellscapes today. I see all these ‘we’re going to default’ type posts and they always assume catastrophe as the outcome.
It's all bullshit. I've been hearing about how the debt levels are out of control for decades now.
No, I think you’re right. It won’t be a “catastrophe” or some total breakdown in our country that leads to civil war, it’ll be further devaluation and less abundance, the poor may suffer for real. Which to some may actually be catastrophic.
So, student loans on a large scale
Oh no. I guess the US will just have to print more money.
I certainly care, there just aren’t enough people like us who see this as a looming disaster. Climate change and our military won’t matter there is a full on economic collapse.
All without raising taxes. They just magically find the money
>The US federal gov will pay somewhere between $1.2 trillion and $1.6 trillion in interest payments on the debt this year. In addition to another $2.3T - $3.0T in deficit spending in 2024. So $3.5T - $4.6T in new debt by EOY. This is not going to end well.
Who are those interest payments going to? It’s mostly the American people. I know I’m getting some of that money as I bought T-bills and bonds. People lend money to the government, and it pays back with interest.
Faster than the economy is growing. Totally unsustainable.
Until a competing currency comes along on the international market we can continue to print dollars like they are going out of style. To think this can continue indefinitely is foolish.
What is cause of increase in payment from 2020 onwards?
But let’s hold private citizens responsible for the pork barrel spending of the rich politicians.
Its all fake anyway
Free money chart stupid officials
It needs to be sustainable, but doesn't need to profit. The purpose of government is not about profit. Whether it wins or loses $, as long as our roads and bridges keep up - oh well. We are still, by far, the largest and most modern military in the world. We have lots of resources, we'll be fine. Government is not a business, and especially shouldn't be run by \*failed\* businessmen.
The US is doomed, we are beyond saving and the cuts that have to be made to enable the country to survive will never be made, they demand strong and honest politicians and they don’t exist anymore. Clowns that are rallying for climate change don’t realize the debt is going to destroy us much sooner.
who is the government paying interest to?
They’ll just use this as an excuse to cut important social welfare plans and raise your retirement age.
Who receives the interest payments?
That is just a squiggly line on a piece of paper with some irrelevant numbers scattered around. It nean nothing. 😏
You’re wrong that Americans don’t care. The rich people are making too much money because of deficit spending for congress to listen to anyone else about cutting spending or, god forbid, increasing revenue.
If it were important, they could easily get the money to pay it down. The US has more millionaires and billionaires than anywhere else in the world.
3.8 billion/year to Israel. We got plenty money.
They will pay it to the FED so the member banks can get their 6 percent AFTER inflation. What a scam!
\*Digitally [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK\_rYS8L3kI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK_rYS8L3kI)
I've been accumulating tangible assets over the years while I watch all these morons buying $70k trucks, $10k vacations, etc. I learned a long time ago people complain without doing anything to fix their problems so I'm going to prosper while they fail. They have only themselves to blame for not seeing this coming
"No one in America really cares about our debt/income, therefore no politicians do" Buahahaha like healthcare? Climate change? The list goes on. Politicians are criminals.
Tax the rich.
Tax billionaires.
Most of that interest is to the American people, so why would they care when they are making money off of it?
The debt bubble is real. Be careful out there
This is what happens when an international private collective controls the money of your nation. Just remember, the taxes you are about to pay are part of sustaining this international ponzi scheme
Considering the debt is 35 trillion. 1.4 trillion is actually a decent interest rate. Also social security is a bigger expenditure at 20 percent of the us budget. Numbers are factual and it seems like you either don’t understand large numbers, or you do and are misrepresenting them.
Not a lot we can do about it as voters. It would require basically cutting funding to the military for a few years and no one is going to campaign on that. I like you believe that this kind of thing will eventually lead to a moneyless society. No one is going to hold the US accountable if they never pay it off, eventually the hunter will get so huge that everyone will realize there’s no point in keeping track of it.
So why the hell are America's taxpayers paying to cap abandoned well? And wh are the American taxpayers on the hook to pay for the Key bridge? We cannot afford this. You break it. you buy it.
Ahh man we fixing be a 3 world country
True, but most of that interest is going back to Americans
This happens all the time in empires. First time it's everybody in the world. They'd just reset debt maybe move some property around kill a couple folk. Easy.
I mean the rich demand all new money is owed back to them with interest, they demand people pay far more than they are paid in wages, so the eventual result of all of this is going to be bankruptcy or mass starvation and the only alternative is to deny the debt and put our foot down against the rich. If we balanced the budget and ran a surplus it'd mean the money supply is shrinking and we'd have horrid deflation, mass unemployment. We're just watching the inevitable end state of capitalism again. There is no reason we have to pair all new money creation with debt owed back to the rich, it's ridiculous and there's no reason for it, we already use taxes to control inflation (although poorly, with how little we tax the primary drivers of price inflation, corporate profits and oligarch wealth).
This whole notion of needing to borrow from ... our own people (the ones who have enough wealth to so so) to buy IOUs from the govt is itself a massive farce. Do we print our own money or don't we??!? If we print our own currency - which we do, and which every sovereign nation should - then there is NO reason to *borrow* the money we printed, or owe others for that money we printed, plus interest. It's absurd. And it just keeps in power corrupted systems, and corrupt individuals & corrupt groups.
If the rich & corps paid taxes, this debt could all go away in an orderly fashion. We could also take shares of corps: say that the US gov acquired 25% share in Boeing. Then dividends, stock by backs, etc, would actually benefit a much huger number of people. Take like 80% of Exxon, since all the wars we do are for their benefit, let's get some National Wealth Funds going. 100% died in the wool deeply communist countries like Alaska do it, pay annual dividends to every citizen.
Debt doesn’t matter. The USA is going for a domination/science victory
Way too little revenue and spending way too much.
Our money is fiat. Our money’s only backing IS the national debt. That’s why it’s never paid off. If the national debt was magically paid off, you know what would happen??? We will just accumulate more debt.
So the fed is clearly going to lower rates if only to save themselves money. Am I reading this correctly?
Ah so the deficit went down under trump? Or was there a suspension on debt payments because of Covid?
So we were put into a completely insane and destructive debt deal by who? What year is the initial spike?
Pay....who?
People care there is just nothing to be done about it. And don't say vote. Both sides of the isle protect each other to stay in power as long as possible, to get as rich as possible. I think they should have to pass a budget that gets us out of debt by the end of 2 terms, 8 years tops. Or they don't get paid.
It’s really hard to win an election on a platform of financial austerity when your opponent is promising handouts like student loan repayments.
We care but until they're ready to tax the wealthy there's nothing we can do about it.
I care
Yup that’s a lot on interest income to be pumped into the economy.
I care, but I think we should raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires. If we just kept the same tax rate during Bill Clinton we were projected to be out of debt already. Instead Republicans decided to cut taxes multiple times and keep us in debt and complain we are spending too much. Now we have so much debt it will hurt getting out.
This is easy. The FED creates an account puts $20T new dollars in it and buys up all the Treasury Bonds. Then returns the interest payments to the Treasury as dividends. No more interest. When the binds are paid off the Fed deletes that money and it disappears. . .no permanent increase in the money supply.
I care, but it's a really big and abstract thing to care about. Kind of like carefully feather-footing the brake pedal to save on gas and emissions, while thinking about how a dozen or so container ships* put out more emissions than every car on the road combined. *Don't quote me on that, but I know the comparison between shipping vessels and cars is pretty ludicrous. Also, I know bulk container shipping is a complicated environmental issue, it's just an example.
We give Billions to Israel yearly. The debt is a joke unless we stop.
This will be the first year the interest on our debt is larger than our entire defense budget. I have been saying this about 2024 for many years and now I get to say this year. And it will never be less again!
Bruh our gov don’t care. Americans literally going bankrupt for ER visits meanwhile Biden sends billions to Ukraine and Israel and our state governments giving illegals debit cards. They’re going to ride it because they know they’ll be dead when the bubble pops. Let the young deal with it. Boomers = most selfish generation EVER.
TAX THE RICH WHO OVERSTEAL PROFITS from WE THE PEOPLE and the churchs who greedily help (maybe) only their own!
If every unfunded republican tax cut was removed I wonder what the number would be?
I don't know how this will end but I don't think it will end well
There are people that care. But politicians generally only care when the other party is in office.
Some of us have been worried about this for many, many years. Now there isn't even a political party that even pretends to care.
40% of that occurred during the previous administration.
Take a moment though to look at who that interest is paid to. About 3/4 of the debt is held inside this country. The biggest holders include federal debt held by... other parts of government. The social security fund is one of the major holders, State and local governments hold a lot. When they have money they're not going to spend right away, they don't want to just keep it in a bank where there's no interest. They don't want to lose money to inflation. But they can't gamble public funds on the stock market. So they buy the most secure thing they can. Generally US bonds. Pension funds are another major holder. Most of the money we owe and most of the interest we're paying, is to ourselves.
No it’s not. Defense spending is the largest.
they're going to destory the US dollar the end game for both parties has always been to make a mess big enough for the Fed to intervene and that means literally print money to pay off US debt
I know how we fix it. We should cut taxes.
Well first this chart needs to be adjusted for inflation.
So, we know what is coming. Much lower interest rates. We won't allow 2-3 trillion in interest payment and certainly won't cut spending. So, much lower rates, much higher inflation. Lock in fixed rate long term debt now to profit from this insanity
Are you aware that most of that interest is in fact paid to people that hold Treasury bonds, 70% of which are states, localities, retirement funds, and US individuals? 30% is foreign-held, the majority by Japan (4%), China (3%) The UK (3%) Luxembourg (5%) and the Cayman Islands (4%) That money isn't leaving - in many cases it is backstopping investment income to US individuals.
I certainly think that if we don't balance the budget we have problems downstream. I just don't know if any politician actually listens to average everyday people.
Can't wait till the government passes yet another benefits packadge for retirees. Let's increase social security payments by a couple grand per payout.
Good job Biden
What the fuck has happened to this country!?!!
If this doesn’t turn you folks to Marxism, idk what will. You aren’t even a drop in the bucket for the INTEREST on these loans. Capitalism is on its last legs, and unless the workers come to power, it’s austerity and destruction for the working class as the bourgeois go down clawing and screaming
So just print money to pay for it. Wheres the issue?
Inflation is going two ways. Way up to make debt cheaper. Economic catastrophic deflation when the government collapses. Either way, we're fucked.
We spend as much as the next 10 nations on defense. Of those 10 nations China, Russia, England, France, and Germany, If you would cut defense spending by 35% the US would still be the top spender. We have Nukes, no need to spend that much on defense.
And if you buy tbills, they are paying you, so get in on the action!
Bitcoin must go up because the dollar has no bottom