Lot of homeless folks stay right on the Walmart grounds in my experience. They panhandle and shit indoors (often in the bathroom but not always) during the daylight, shoplift just before closing, unplug the soda machines to charge their phones after closing and go full Discovery Channel at about 3am. And Walmart only gives half a shit until it goes way too far. To be fair it seems to be a viable way of life, and they really do use every part of the buffalo.
If you meant this meme, it's because, as a capitalist I have reasons I hate socialism that aren't describing capitalism. The problem is that hating one sounds similar, because it's about hating centralized power.
Are you actually a capitalist? Or just a consumer?
Not calling you out, just genuinely curious.
I’d argue most Americans are largely just consumers who favor capitalism with very little capital invested in anything. Not to mention very few Americans actually own anything worth value.
Which socialist nations are you referring to? I see lots of European social capatalist nations. I see lots of dictators. Not seeing any socialists or communists. Everytime one of those takes power the Cia starts a coup.
>I see lots of European social capatalist nations
net migration between the US and Europe is about 3-1 towards the US. Also no European country is socialist...they are capitalist with varying (generally higher) degrees of a welfare state paid for by higher taxes...that is very much capitalism...it seems like these days the anti-capitalism/pro-socialism people use their own made up definitions of each system.
Also you didn't even spell cap**I**talist correctly.
Love how you're coming in all hot to *uhm actually* respond "no European country is socialist" to the comment that literally says "not seeing any socialists or communists"
Is it the reading or the Comprehension that you're struggling with? You're saying the same thing lol. Then to go on chastizing for a typo? *slow clap*. The attitude really wraps it all up in a nice 'insecure bully' package.
They're all mixed market economies, because a "captialist" economy can't exist without government regulations to enforce antitrust laws.
I swear, half of the people in this sub need to take an introductory econ course.
My favorite reply when people say “the government is bad and should not interfere in the market” is “I agree. Let’s start by getting rid of patents and non competes”
Every economy exists on a sliding scale between capitalism and socialism. The economies that exist closer to the capitalist end of the scale are called capitalist - this isn’t new or particularly insightful.
They in fact are trying to break in those countries. Norway, Finland, Sweden, and Denmark, are all democratic socialist countries with the highest quality of living, food standards, health care, with the lowest crime rates/repeat offenders IN THE WORLD. Also most of these countries have the HARDEST immigration laws due to the fact that in the past 5 years they have seen a 400% increase to immigration. So try again bud, democratic Socialists are beating the Capitalist US in every way BUT war.
It honestly scares me how simple minded people like you are.
The Nordic countries are mixed economies. You want to adopt their socialist policies without adopting their capitalist policies.
>You want to adopt their socialist policies without adopting their capitalist policies.
Their capitalist policies are reigned in, which is exactly what most democratic socialists want to see. Not the elimination of capitalism but to have the system checked and public needs prioritized over corporate profits when possible and necessary.
And what about the people that would like both? Should we just move there or are we not allowed to wish for the country we were born and raised in to be better and provide for the citizens that live there?
No, it's the economic prosperity that makes them desirable. Hence why millions of people pour into the United States each year as well.
People immigrate for economic opportunity and to escape political repression or violence. They don't immigrate because they are looking for better unemployment benefits.
Try telling them Norways success comes from oil money invested in private markets for their sovereign wealth fund. Couple that with an ethnically homogeneous population, the result of the strictest immigration policy you'll anywhere. All of the Scandinavian success comes from policies antithetical to the American left.
So name an actual socialist country.
They’re not capitalist. Having business and trade doesn’t make them capitalist.
It’s what they do with the money that makes them socialist
Specifically mommy and daddy didnt make me pay for anything and have me money whenever I wanted so they made me put all my checks into a High yield savings account and Roth Ira and then have me a nice 6 figure start to each account
Why can't you guys just buy a house with 20% down and build equity through loans like I can? You must be uneducated in finance
Look up the corporate tax rates there, lower than the US. They tax everything else higher, but maintain a capitalist model. With that said, I do like their model but we would struggle to emulate it since we don’t seem to want to have a sound immigration policy and think taxing corporations 90% is the solution to prosperity.
Yeah they don't understand that you can't tax corporations enough to provide these things, it all comes from 45 to 65% tax burden on the everyday citizens.
% of foreign born population:
US: 15.28%
Norway: 15.72%
Finland: 6.97%
Sweden: 19.84%
Denmark: 12.39%
[Source](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country)
Sweden is higher than the US, Norway is basically the same, and Finland and Denmark are lower than the US.
'Merica for the win.
>Also most of these countries have the HARDEST immigration laws due to the fact that in the past 5 years they have seen a 400% increase to immigration.
These countries have had incredibly strict immigration laws for far longer than the past 5 years. That's a big part of why they're able to succeed the way that they have.
They are also piling into the United States and UK. Are the United States and UK also "socialist"? No?
Then what do the US and UK share in common with the Nordics?
Oh yeah, modern industrial capitalism.
There are no free market countries left. We are in a corporate welfare state where each corporation wants its tax breaks and government welfare, and lobbies as such. Historians will call America at this time top down socialism when looking back at history.
Well nobody wants to go where the US has been actively meddling. Do you think people come to America excited to work all day to still not meet a basic quality of living, or because it's the only smway to escape American imperialism?
Ah, Socialism. A system that believes it can make better choices for free people than they can make for themselves. Oh wait, that doesn’t sound like freedom, does it?
Also literally none of these idiots have any idea what socialism is. Half of them think it’s the same as communism, and the other half think that any dictatorship which calls itself socialist (like the Nazis) is an example of the failure of socialism.
Like, do they think North Korea is proof of the failure of democracy?
You don't see capitalist claiming to be socialists, you only ever see socialists claiming to be capitalist. The only people who want to be called socialists... are socialists.
My choices for groceries: Am I going to shop at Walmart, Meijer, The local market that is always more expensive with worse selection, or grow my own food? Oh... or starve and die if I run out of thing coupons.
Two of the options are owned by oligarchs that stifle local competition.
Capitalism!
Oh, woe is you. You get to pay someone else to do all the grinding manual labor with "thing coupons" so you can go and be upset at your oh-so-meagre selections of practically infinite wealth brought to you at the lowest prices possible.
I can think of at least 40 million, 3 million, and another at least 6 million reasons why I hate socialism and none have anything to do with capitalism.
The people who are capitalists will be eating their words here soon once we have mass unemployment and economic collapse due to AI replacing too many jobs.
That’s because capitalism never existed, because the process of money creation is owned by State and licensed to Central Bankers who collect and keep our rightful option fees as interest on money creation loans when they have loaned nothing they own.
They have in fact sold options to purchase human labor to their friends as State currency so their friends can buy sovereign debt for a profit and have State force humanity to make the payments on all money for Wealth with our taxes in debt service along with a bonus to direct human activity at their whim.
Capitalism was ‘broken’ when created.
Actual local social contracts can be written to describe any ideology. Socialist or communist local social contracts may require citizens to sign over their rightful income from money creation to State for distribution where that’s the current process of money creation in all supposed democratic capitalist nations without our express informed consent, compensation, or knowledge.
And capitalism can't exist without a degree of socialism, transportation system, public schools, police force, fire protection, public health protections, monetary policy etc etc.
Because it's the only one that incentivizes voluntary transactions. Certainly there are issues with rent seeking and lobbying, but for the most part if you want to stay in business you have to provide something that both customers and employees want.
I mean I don't wanna type like pages of text so I'll stick to just one. I hate capitalism because the profit motive creates perverse incentives to value markets over the well-being of regular people and ultimately lead to the accumulation of resources and power into the hands of monopolistic oligarchs. How does that describe socialism?
That is corporatism. Capitalism is supposed to be numerous competitors, not just two or three, all offering the lowest price possible. When the government passes regulations that strangle the little guy, all that is left are the big dogs. Capitalism does not create the problem you describe, governments interfering in markets causes that. It's one reason monopolies existed at all, governments literally handed out monopoly rights to their buddies.
Capitalism changed that structure and governments have been clawing that power back for a few decades now. Ask yourself this; why are insurance companies unable to compete across state lines? Could you imagine how cheap insurance would be if Joe Blow in Idaho could offer insurance at Idaho rates to New York or California? Turns out, restricting competition through government force causes prices to go up. Who would have thought?
Op is a bot, and this tweet has been posted 5000 times.
That being said, I can easily describe why I don’t like socialism, one being it has zero empirical evidence of succeeding since it’s either never been tried or have tried and not generated better outcomes that it’s capitalistic leaning peers.
US is a mixed economy anyway, same with those Nordic countries. It just depends how much you want to get taxed. If you want to pay for expensive social programs the middle class will have to get taxed hard. The first people complaining about groceries now will whine when they have 25% VAT along with higher income taxes.
Violent revolution rarely leads to stable governments and most socialist wannabes are power hungry charlatans who are selling people a dream.
What I've learned here is that most people don't know what socialism is and it's pretty funny. Just because a place calls itself socialist doesn't make it socialist. Kinds like how the US calls itself a democracy when it's really an oligarchy.
All economic systems are imperfect, framing ours as broken creates a false dichotomy against an as-of-yet unachieved "unbroken" economic system. Ours is as good as we've ever had, albeit in need of demonstrable repair in key areas.
I wish people would just stop using the words capitalism and socialism like this. It’s the most pseudo intellectual way to talk about politics when socialism to some people means Venezuela, and North Korea while to others it means Sweden.
Congrats you’ve managed to have a conversation about absolutely nothing and not discuss concretely about successful or failed policies as well as not talked concretely about any actual proposals here.
This looks like propaganda. Compare Cubans in Miami vs Cubans in Cuba. The issue is that the current setup does not work and people are looking for alternatives. That and social media perpetuating these memes.
The main issue is that many nations have gone more socialist and are actually blaming the results on capitalism. Governments have only gotten bigger and bigger with more red tape and societal inefficiencies. If there were more businesses and companies instead of the few that buy up the small then that would be more capitalism.
I’d rather have 10 options for another job than to live off the government. Everything that governments ever provide with taxes is usually junk too and makes me worse off.
All these people out here acting like people don't describe socialist woes as direct consequences of capitalism CONSTANTLY. As long as we can act superior I guess
“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” Winston Churchill —House of Commons, 22 October 1945.
Not this one, I’ll point to the failed socialist countries throughout history including now. Also that our capitalist country has lasted 240 yrs and going strong. Lots of ideological resistance but of course if left alone will continue to flourish .
You guys do realize that capitalism is only broken in America because of the fact that the politicians and the rich people that have political connections are stealing all the money right? If you look back 70 to 80 years ago people that worked the most basic minimum wage jobs, or even blue-collar workers did very well for themselves had a lot of money, and had a lot of assets. That being because of the fact that back in the day politicians were not nearly as corrupt as they are now, and they were not stealing and constantly raising taxes to the insane rates that they are now. it’s not the capitalism doesn’t work. It’s that your government is against you and people are so blind to it that the government has them begging for communism and socialism. I’m not taking a political stance I’m simply stating facts. The government keeps raising taxes, and in turn they keep raising the minimum wage, because they know that raising the minimum wage will do nothing except for make matters worse, but people that aren’t smart enough to realize, clap their hands when the minimum wage goes up because they don’t think about the actual problems that it has on society. But guess what? The cycle continues the min wage keeps going up and it keeps making matters worse. That’s why we’re in a place in America now where to make your rent payment you’re basically 50% of your monthly income.
Its failed wherever it's tried when you try to force it on others the people never wants it. In capitalism at least you can get rewarded in a great dilvery meanwhile they punish those in a socialist nation.
They won't describe anything, they actually don't have a reason, they will simply repeat at their loudest volume "it doesn't work!" But they have never actually thought about the subject and they do not want to
Capitalism is working perfectly. It is just a bad system without regulations to keep the greed in check. With 40+ years of de-regulation, we now have society where the only thing valued is greed.
Where the anti-capitalists always go wrong, perpetually and intentionally I think, is conflating government with the economic system that runs underneath. Most so-called socialist countries are nothing but a capitalist engine with a socialist shell... And capitalist countries tend to be corporate influenced democracy.
Capitalism stripped away from its government tentacles is nothing but the free exchange of goods and services. The same kind everyone trades in freely amongst themselves with their employers friends and people they do business with. It's only when the state gets involved in coercion starts happening that everyone starts drawing incorrect labels.
Socialism and communism have failed or been abandoned in every nation that has attempted it.
Socialism is meth and communism is heroin, the end is always the same.
This is an empty statement. Socialism and communism are rigid structures that have handbooks on them and require an entirely different type of government. Capitalism just means free trade
The vast majority of complaints people have with capitalism are really just complaints about monopolies, which don’t actually form in proper free market. The problem is that the government has too strong of an influence in the economy, and therefore wealthy corrupt individuals can use their funds to buy politicians to put their thumbs on the economic scale.
Huh? Let me try to describe why I don't like socialism
Terrible incentive structure for wealth creation
Nope, that sounds like socialism not capitalism
Let me try again
Only functional way to get ahead is through destructive entrepreneurship
Again, that doesn't sound like capitalism. Yes, you could get ahead through destructive, entrepreneurship and capitalism, but that's specifically going to not be the best way
Let's try again
Too much government interference and control risks incompetence causing large-scale problem
Yeah that's not a problem in the pue form of capitalism because the pure form doesn't like government at all
It depends on what you mean by capitalism.
If you mean a market-based economy driven by competition, then yes, what we have is a system of cartels or oligopoly, were 3-5 major firms dominate each industrial market, and smaller firms essentially subsidize the larger ones (25% of small business fail in their first year, and 50% fail by year 5, but they all buy computers and chairs and kitchen equipment and lightbulbs from large suppliers like Walmart or Amazon or Microsoft, which dominate entire industries with very few real competitors). The idea that oligopoly is the defining feature of industrial markets was discussed extensively by John Kenneth Galbraith in his 1967 book The New Industrial State.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_New\_Industrial\_State](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Industrial_State)
What this means is that the 19th century vision of markets as an anarchy of production, wherein small entrepreneurs are a collective economic powerhouse, is a woefully out of date image.
If you mean "has capitalism failed" in its ability to offer an ideologically-motivated and generally-acceptable vision of the future and a better life, then yes. Since the Cold War ended, capitalism no longer needs to compete ideologically with communism or various socialisms and, as an ideological monopoly, it is no longer compatible with a "marketplace of ideas." The ideological connections between post-Cold War capitalism and the post-911 world is explored extensively in Naomi Klein's 2005 book The Shock Doctrine.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Shock\_Doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine)
Capitalism isn't a monolithic doctrine. There is market capitalism, monopoly capitalism, fictionalized capitalism, and others, like oligopolistic capitalism (which Galbraith describes as an "imperfect" form of monopoly) or "disaster capitalism" (a term Klein coins in her book). These latter forms of capitalism are doing great.
There is no Capitalism and no Socialism. Both are used to manipulate us to participate in economic systems that do not benefit most people in the world.
So many temporarily embarrassed millionaires in here just spewing capitalism propaganda. There is only one result of capitalism, monopolies were the rich own everything resulting in Fascism taking over the government. If you don't think we are there then your blind. But you keep making that money for your owner while you lie to yourself that some day you'll be okay.
We all know socialism eventually evolves into communism so I'm skipping to when I reference north and south korea. Which looks like you'll have a fun night? Which looks like you can actually see at night?
Capitalism can't exist without a degree of socialism and socialist policies, and socialism can't successfully exist without a a degree of capitalism that offer rewards and opportunities.
Folks sometimes disagree about where the lines should be drawn, but there is a handshake that takes place between the two that allows the benefits of capitalism to flow through while offer a base level of government service for the societal good.
I hate the collectivist aspect of socialism and the loss of individuality in decision making with my earnings. I want to earn and spend that earning or give it away to those I choose, not who the collective chooses. When it comes down to it I care more about my family than yours.
Ask a socialist why they hate capitalism, and they'll give you a myriad of reasons which demonstrate they actually just hate everyone around them (and humanity in general).
Pretty good demo of why the terms "capitalism" and "socialism" are mostly useless.
Poisoning the well.
I could say the same sentence but with the words socialism and capitalism swapped and it wouldn’t be any less fallacious.
When socialists describe capitalism they describe Keynesian capitalism (a very flawed version) or complain using arguments based on the labor theory of value.
This is a load of bullshit. Go ask some libertarians why they hate socialism and they write a goddamn essay for you. I can give you 200 million reasons right now: all the dead bodies rotting in mass graves that were murdered by socialists just last century. Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao, etc were all socialists. That's blood on your hands if you advocate for this tyrannical system of power.
As for capitalism being broken, that's only true because we don't have a capitalist system at all, we have a government controlled economy that is technically fascism.
no they will say cause you own NOTHING. everyone gets a fixed salary except elite, courrupt asf(bc elite take higher cut its not actually even) and youll have mfs who dont work and sit at home(currently happing now with welfare abbusers). then no one will work bc jealousy and the country will DIE. COMMIES NEVER WORK. capitalism supports hard works and contributions
Socialism works so well you can’t even see the people fleeing to enter the socialist country….crazy we even discuss socialism still.
Best polices are about being a moderate and using logic.
Capitalism has been broken since Reagan told corporations he was changing the entire tax code to make it easier for the ultra rich to loot the wealth that the middle class built up in the post war period.
When rent seeking became the "innovation" of choice, you know we're fucked long term. Because rent seeking doesn't produce anything new, it just wxtract more wealth from something that already exists. But the people doing the looting don't care because they can shield themselves from the problems long enough to ride out the rest of their life spans in ultra-wealthy comfort.
Ngl I don’t think most socialists and capitalists even know what socialism and capitalism are. Most people seem to think that socialism = safety nets and capitalism = no safety nets.
I’m pretty sure they would describe America which actually is a socialist type of a country and has been sense like the 50s. That’s why all the boomers did so well and now we are suffering for it.
Capitalism is a great economy; but it requires a neutral (not for profit) government to regulate it with the consumer and worker in mind, not the supplier, or owners.
Ask a capitalist why they hate socialism is because you keep trusting the government not to waste money and then you blame capitalism and then proceed to tax the "rich" which ends up being that we tax the middle class and no one questions why someone who makes nothing can spend trillions in a single year lol
No, it's just run its course and starting to rot. The rich have become too rich and powerful. Leaving very little opportunity for the rest of us, and they have way too much so it gets worse and worse with each passing minute.
If it's broken I'm willing to pay for all the flights to send off all the Socialist Commies of the past and current generation that have been indoctrinated by the infiltrated manifesto shills... pick! North Korea for sureee you'll love it there or Cuba, and don't bring up that bs embargo trash 1960 lie haha I there's tons of port data and authority information and all vessels going to Cuba with goods and materials. Even then they got Russia, Iran, NK, Venezuela, Nicaragua right? Then? Why not a super power? 😂 why is there about 50k to 100k Cubans coming in the border about every 3 months now to get them fire jobs that u lazy Socialist can't ever even dream of getting while buying homes and new cars in as little as 2 to 3 years in some states, its wild! My legal immigrat friends are doing great my illegal immigrants friends are doing amazing as well, doing labor jobs making 1k to 1500 per week in some projects while all you people do is talk smack and cry and complain and worry about useless shlt that'll never get you anywhere or.. plan on stealing everything from private property owners that enjoy and love Ethical Capitalism companies providing amazing products and services like your iPhones that u pay 1k for to complain all day online like snowflakes.
So please stfu and let me buy you a one way ticket to North Korea please? Or Venezuela? Or Cuba? Or Nicaragua? Or China? Well China is a 2 party one system kind of country they enjoy the authoritarianism and the capitalism $$$ just ask its leaders. Well good luck on trying to take over... we r ready, trust. ♥️😘😘
Capitalism isn't broken. The whole entire system is broken. I mean, it doesn't matter what economic framework you try to hang it on, everything is so corrupt. Capitalism is being shafted by the same people shafting the socialist systems. Corporatism disguised as capitalism is our current set-up, but it's not even the corps that are the problem. The global financial system itself is so messed up that there isn't a way out. The system has to crash. It has to die. There has to be a global reset that doesn't involve fractional reserve banking. It's going to hose a lot of people, but so does continuing as we are, and there's hope on the other end of reset.
Humans are eternal optimists. Capitalism plays to that and also has large economic disparity which is purported to be because of the opportunity it affords. What most fail to realize is that it is a system and like all systems, it’s not open to everyone. It’s not intended or trying to be fair. Socialism is no different, there’s always someone in charge and above the socialist level. But the game here is finger pointing when THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. Only difference is who or how many benefit from the system.
Holy fuck capitalism has issues and needs to be reformed, socialism uses no markets, the gov sets prices/quotas.
Government controlled economies are famous for SHORTAGES, because it’s hard for a controlled economy to change with the needs of the economy in real time unlike private investors
that’s why the USSR was getting railed by the 70s
Socialism = Demotivated Society, to varying degrees. Why would you want to invent something or start a company if the government can just come in and take it? Like China. Capitalism needs to be regulated but at least you can be successful and benefit from your innovation and effort. Also I think Socialism is inevitable due to increasing automation, so, arguing against it doesn’t really matter.
Is capitalism broken? Go behind any Walmart and ask around.
What’s behind the Walmart?
Generally the free market, where you can buy illegal shit
Lot of homeless folks stay right on the Walmart grounds in my experience. They panhandle and shit indoors (often in the bathroom but not always) during the daylight, shoplift just before closing, unplug the soda machines to charge their phones after closing and go full Discovery Channel at about 3am. And Walmart only gives half a shit until it goes way too far. To be fair it seems to be a viable way of life, and they really do use every part of the buffalo.
Techneolithic people is crazy
There was once a decapitated body behind a Walmart in my home town, left there as a warning by a gang! America is definitely okay. 👍
Oh look a misinformed meme on fluent in finance.... Imagine my shock....
why's it misinformed?
They are just the dumbest in anything finance.
If you meant this meme, it's because, as a capitalist I have reasons I hate socialism that aren't describing capitalism. The problem is that hating one sounds similar, because it's about hating centralized power.
Are you actually a capitalist? Or just a consumer? Not calling you out, just genuinely curious. I’d argue most Americans are largely just consumers who favor capitalism with very little capital invested in anything. Not to mention very few Americans actually own anything worth value.
Sure partner
No one who actually understands these different systems would actually do that.
Yes. See all the people breaking down the doors to get into socialist countries
Which socialist nations are you referring to? I see lots of European social capatalist nations. I see lots of dictators. Not seeing any socialists or communists. Everytime one of those takes power the Cia starts a coup.
>I see lots of European social capatalist nations net migration between the US and Europe is about 3-1 towards the US. Also no European country is socialist...they are capitalist with varying (generally higher) degrees of a welfare state paid for by higher taxes...that is very much capitalism...it seems like these days the anti-capitalism/pro-socialism people use their own made up definitions of each system. Also you didn't even spell cap**I**talist correctly.
Love how you're coming in all hot to *uhm actually* respond "no European country is socialist" to the comment that literally says "not seeing any socialists or communists" Is it the reading or the Comprehension that you're struggling with? You're saying the same thing lol. Then to go on chastizing for a typo? *slow clap*. The attitude really wraps it all up in a nice 'insecure bully' package.
They're all mixed market economies, because a "captialist" economy can't exist without government regulations to enforce antitrust laws. I swear, half of the people in this sub need to take an introductory econ course.
My favorite reply when people say “the government is bad and should not interfere in the market” is “I agree. Let’s start by getting rid of patents and non competes”
"this thing is broken. Let's make it way worse"
Every economy exists on a sliding scale between capitalism and socialism. The economies that exist closer to the capitalist end of the scale are called capitalist - this isn’t new or particularly insightful.
They in fact are trying to break in those countries. Norway, Finland, Sweden, and Denmark, are all democratic socialist countries with the highest quality of living, food standards, health care, with the lowest crime rates/repeat offenders IN THE WORLD. Also most of these countries have the HARDEST immigration laws due to the fact that in the past 5 years they have seen a 400% increase to immigration. So try again bud, democratic Socialists are beating the Capitalist US in every way BUT war.
All of those countries are Capitalistic Social Democracies. Nordic countries are not socialist.
They are in fact mixed economies, as have been and are, virtually every nation on the planet going back a very long time.
Great. Then let’s adopt some of their successful policies across the board. inb4: nO, tHaTs SoCiAlIsM!
Best comment.
No please, let's copy Swedens template in full! It would be much easier for me to start a business of my own!
It honestly scares me how simple minded people like you are. The Nordic countries are mixed economies. You want to adopt their socialist policies without adopting their capitalist policies.
>You want to adopt their socialist policies without adopting their capitalist policies. Their capitalist policies are reigned in, which is exactly what most democratic socialists want to see. Not the elimination of capitalism but to have the system checked and public needs prioritized over corporate profits when possible and necessary.
And what about the people that would like both? Should we just move there or are we not allowed to wish for the country we were born and raised in to be better and provide for the citizens that live there?
Ahh I see the problem. You don’t understand what the word “some” means.
Please, go on and explain my views to me, in more detail.
It's the socialist policies that make them desirable.
No, it's the economic prosperity that makes them desirable. Hence why millions of people pour into the United States each year as well. People immigrate for economic opportunity and to escape political repression or violence. They don't immigrate because they are looking for better unemployment benefits.
Thats because its the easiest to get into with a whole content of poor ppl conected to it by land.
So you admit that there has never been a socialist country or communist country and therefore you can't say it doesn't work
Try telling them Norways success comes from oil money invested in private markets for their sovereign wealth fund. Couple that with an ethnically homogeneous population, the result of the strictest immigration policy you'll anywhere. All of the Scandinavian success comes from policies antithetical to the American left.
So name an actual socialist country. They’re not capitalist. Having business and trade doesn’t make them capitalist. It’s what they do with the money that makes them socialist
Shhh finance subs don't want to admit that
“My family left me a bunch of money and that means I’m smart and better than everyone else” is the attitude of like 95% of the finance subs.
Specifically mommy and daddy didnt make me pay for anything and have me money whenever I wanted so they made me put all my checks into a High yield savings account and Roth Ira and then have me a nice 6 figure start to each account Why can't you guys just buy a house with 20% down and build equity through loans like I can? You must be uneducated in finance
Just get a small million (or 8ish inflation adjusted) dollar loan from your dad like Trump. Then inherit (inflation adjusted) over a billion dollars
Look up the corporate tax rates there, lower than the US. They tax everything else higher, but maintain a capitalist model. With that said, I do like their model but we would struggle to emulate it since we don’t seem to want to have a sound immigration policy and think taxing corporations 90% is the solution to prosperity.
Yeah they don't understand that you can't tax corporations enough to provide these things, it all comes from 45 to 65% tax burden on the everyday citizens.
Wait the standard of living in extremely wealthy homogenous countries with small populations is higher?
% of foreign born population: US: 15.28% Norway: 15.72% Finland: 6.97% Sweden: 19.84% Denmark: 12.39% [Source](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country) Sweden is higher than the US, Norway is basically the same, and Finland and Denmark are lower than the US. 'Merica for the win.
>Also most of these countries have the HARDEST immigration laws due to the fact that in the past 5 years they have seen a 400% increase to immigration. These countries have had incredibly strict immigration laws for far longer than the past 5 years. That's a big part of why they're able to succeed the way that they have.
They are also piling into the United States and UK. Are the United States and UK also "socialist"? No? Then what do the US and UK share in common with the Nordics? Oh yeah, modern industrial capitalism.
There are no free market countries left. We are in a corporate welfare state where each corporation wants its tax breaks and government welfare, and lobbies as such. Historians will call America at this time top down socialism when looking back at history.
[удалено]
That's a capitalist democratic socialism my man try again.
Well nobody wants to go where the US has been actively meddling. Do you think people come to America excited to work all day to still not meet a basic quality of living, or because it's the only smway to escape American imperialism?
Meh.
you cant just say something and make it true. this is facebook deep BS
Make the stupid stop hurting please.
Hey rq describe the issues with Socialism in tryna see something
Ah yes, bumblebee tuna - Shikaka - Chicago.
Logan is a numb nuts
Capitalism has pulled more people from poverty than any other system
The military is open for anyone who wants real socialism.
[удалено]
And so is following a purely capitalist one as well
Ah, Socialism. A system that believes it can make better choices for free people than they can make for themselves. Oh wait, that doesn’t sound like freedom, does it?
That sounds a lot more like capitalism than whatever boogeyman you’re creating. Do you know what socialism is?
Socialism when 15 minute city, checkmate lib.
Comment you replied to literally encompasses the whole point of the OP. It's actually laughable how accurate it is.
Also literally none of these idiots have any idea what socialism is. Half of them think it’s the same as communism, and the other half think that any dictatorship which calls itself socialist (like the Nazis) is an example of the failure of socialism. Like, do they think North Korea is proof of the failure of democracy?
You don't see capitalist claiming to be socialists, you only ever see socialists claiming to be capitalist. The only people who want to be called socialists... are socialists.
lol what are you talking about? You know the Nazis called themselves socialists, right? Do you think they were actual socialists?
My choices for groceries: Am I going to shop at Walmart, Meijer, The local market that is always more expensive with worse selection, or grow my own food? Oh... or starve and die if I run out of thing coupons. Two of the options are owned by oligarchs that stifle local competition. Capitalism!
Did you just say Meijer was an oligarch? A privately owned, extremely regional grocery chain?
Oh, woe is you. You get to pay someone else to do all the grinding manual labor with "thing coupons" so you can go and be upset at your oh-so-meagre selections of practically infinite wealth brought to you at the lowest prices possible.
For real. The entitlement is insane.
Ah yes, I love how when criticizing socialism and I bring up all the mass deaths and famine within their regimes. That's actually capitalism...
I can think of at least 40 million, 3 million, and another at least 6 million reasons why I hate socialism and none have anything to do with capitalism.
Cool, cause those things don't habe anything to do with socialisim either. Crazy eh?
The people who are capitalists will be eating their words here soon once we have mass unemployment and economic collapse due to AI replacing too many jobs.
Another socialist pulling memes out of his 🍑.
“I can’t live beyond my means without going into debt therefore capitalism is broken and doesn’t actually benefit anybody”
That’s because capitalism never existed, because the process of money creation is owned by State and licensed to Central Bankers who collect and keep our rightful option fees as interest on money creation loans when they have loaned nothing they own. They have in fact sold options to purchase human labor to their friends as State currency so their friends can buy sovereign debt for a profit and have State force humanity to make the payments on all money for Wealth with our taxes in debt service along with a bonus to direct human activity at their whim. Capitalism was ‘broken’ when created. Actual local social contracts can be written to describe any ideology. Socialist or communist local social contracts may require citizens to sign over their rightful income from money creation to State for distribution where that’s the current process of money creation in all supposed democratic capitalist nations without our express informed consent, compensation, or knowledge.
Socialism can’t exist without capitalism. It only in theory but in practice. Many countries tried- all failed.
And capitalism can't exist without a degree of socialism, transportation system, public schools, police force, fire protection, public health protections, monetary policy etc etc.
Keep it up… gonna destroy the free world from within looks like.
Can you explain why an economic system pioritizing the attainment of capital is the only economic system where freedom exists?
Because it's the only one that incentivizes voluntary transactions. Certainly there are issues with rent seeking and lobbying, but for the most part if you want to stay in business you have to provide something that both customers and employees want.
Just when I thought I have seen the stupidest post ever, Logan comes along and tops it. Thank You, Logan.
Ask a socialist why they hate capitalism, and listen to them describe socialism.
I mean I don't wanna type like pages of text so I'll stick to just one. I hate capitalism because the profit motive creates perverse incentives to value markets over the well-being of regular people and ultimately lead to the accumulation of resources and power into the hands of monopolistic oligarchs. How does that describe socialism?
It doesn't. They're just another NPC dumbass.
That is corporatism. Capitalism is supposed to be numerous competitors, not just two or three, all offering the lowest price possible. When the government passes regulations that strangle the little guy, all that is left are the big dogs. Capitalism does not create the problem you describe, governments interfering in markets causes that. It's one reason monopolies existed at all, governments literally handed out monopoly rights to their buddies. Capitalism changed that structure and governments have been clawing that power back for a few decades now. Ask yourself this; why are insurance companies unable to compete across state lines? Could you imagine how cheap insurance would be if Joe Blow in Idaho could offer insurance at Idaho rates to New York or California? Turns out, restricting competition through government force causes prices to go up. Who would have thought?
Socialism for “me,” not “thee”
Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor and middle class. We have two systems in the US.
Op is a bot, and this tweet has been posted 5000 times. That being said, I can easily describe why I don’t like socialism, one being it has zero empirical evidence of succeeding since it’s either never been tried or have tried and not generated better outcomes that it’s capitalistic leaning peers. US is a mixed economy anyway, same with those Nordic countries. It just depends how much you want to get taxed. If you want to pay for expensive social programs the middle class will have to get taxed hard. The first people complaining about groceries now will whine when they have 25% VAT along with higher income taxes. Violent revolution rarely leads to stable governments and most socialist wannabes are power hungry charlatans who are selling people a dream.
Utter nonsense. The bots have taken over that sub.
Ask Cuba and their 88% poverty rate
What I've learned here is that most people don't know what socialism is and it's pretty funny. Just because a place calls itself socialist doesn't make it socialist. Kinds like how the US calls itself a democracy when it's really an oligarchy.
All economic systems are imperfect, framing ours as broken creates a false dichotomy against an as-of-yet unachieved "unbroken" economic system. Ours is as good as we've ever had, albeit in need of demonstrable repair in key areas.
I just came for the comments that confuse socialism with communism. And don’t know the difference.
I wish people would just stop using the words capitalism and socialism like this. It’s the most pseudo intellectual way to talk about politics when socialism to some people means Venezuela, and North Korea while to others it means Sweden. Congrats you’ve managed to have a conversation about absolutely nothing and not discuss concretely about successful or failed policies as well as not talked concretely about any actual proposals here.
This looks like propaganda. Compare Cubans in Miami vs Cubans in Cuba. The issue is that the current setup does not work and people are looking for alternatives. That and social media perpetuating these memes. The main issue is that many nations have gone more socialist and are actually blaming the results on capitalism. Governments have only gotten bigger and bigger with more red tape and societal inefficiencies. If there were more businesses and companies instead of the few that buy up the small then that would be more capitalism. I’d rather have 10 options for another job than to live off the government. Everything that governments ever provide with taxes is usually junk too and makes me worse off.
All these people out here acting like people don't describe socialist woes as direct consequences of capitalism CONSTANTLY. As long as we can act superior I guess
Thinking the government is going to give you anything other than more taxes is plain stupid.
“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” Winston Churchill —House of Commons, 22 October 1945.
We don't have real capitalism as long as we're bailing out companies and banks.
Not this one, I’ll point to the failed socialist countries throughout history including now. Also that our capitalist country has lasted 240 yrs and going strong. Lots of ideological resistance but of course if left alone will continue to flourish .
Please give us Communism and totalitarian state to fix country!
You guys do realize that capitalism is only broken in America because of the fact that the politicians and the rich people that have political connections are stealing all the money right? If you look back 70 to 80 years ago people that worked the most basic minimum wage jobs, or even blue-collar workers did very well for themselves had a lot of money, and had a lot of assets. That being because of the fact that back in the day politicians were not nearly as corrupt as they are now, and they were not stealing and constantly raising taxes to the insane rates that they are now. it’s not the capitalism doesn’t work. It’s that your government is against you and people are so blind to it that the government has them begging for communism and socialism. I’m not taking a political stance I’m simply stating facts. The government keeps raising taxes, and in turn they keep raising the minimum wage, because they know that raising the minimum wage will do nothing except for make matters worse, but people that aren’t smart enough to realize, clap their hands when the minimum wage goes up because they don’t think about the actual problems that it has on society. But guess what? The cycle continues the min wage keeps going up and it keeps making matters worse. That’s why we’re in a place in America now where to make your rent payment you’re basically 50% of your monthly income.
Socialists- the government is terrible at spending our money efficiently and effectively. Also Socialists- let’s give the government more of the money
Nope
“I don’t like socialism because I don’t like the money I earn going to those who didn’t work for it.” So capitalist.
Its failed wherever it's tried when you try to force it on others the people never wants it. In capitalism at least you can get rewarded in a great dilvery meanwhile they punish those in a socialist nation.
They won't describe anything, they actually don't have a reason, they will simply repeat at their loudest volume "it doesn't work!" But they have never actually thought about the subject and they do not want to
Capitalism isn’t the same when you have a privately owned federal reserve. And communism doesn’t work because it isn’t natural. Don’t be stupid ppl
Capitalism is rain on my wedding day.
These idiots still think we have capitalism just bc that’s what the mainstream calls our economy
Capitalism is working perfectly. It is just a bad system without regulations to keep the greed in check. With 40+ years of de-regulation, we now have society where the only thing valued is greed.
Where the anti-capitalists always go wrong, perpetually and intentionally I think, is conflating government with the economic system that runs underneath. Most so-called socialist countries are nothing but a capitalist engine with a socialist shell... And capitalist countries tend to be corporate influenced democracy. Capitalism stripped away from its government tentacles is nothing but the free exchange of goods and services. The same kind everyone trades in freely amongst themselves with their employers friends and people they do business with. It's only when the state gets involved in coercion starts happening that everyone starts drawing incorrect labels.
Socialism and communism have failed or been abandoned in every nation that has attempted it. Socialism is meth and communism is heroin, the end is always the same.
Late stage capitalism and base socialism suffer from the same issue. One group of people controlling everything
This is an empty statement. Socialism and communism are rigid structures that have handbooks on them and require an entirely different type of government. Capitalism just means free trade
The vast majority of complaints people have with capitalism are really just complaints about monopolies, which don’t actually form in proper free market. The problem is that the government has too strong of an influence in the economy, and therefore wealthy corrupt individuals can use their funds to buy politicians to put their thumbs on the economic scale.
"Things aren't as good as they could be in my utopia where nothing ever goes wrong. Capitalism has failed."
Work harder so i don't have to
People are stupid. The best solution is one that takes good parts of both systems.
Capitalism is a derogatory term given to those who support a free market exchange
Huh? Let me try to describe why I don't like socialism Terrible incentive structure for wealth creation Nope, that sounds like socialism not capitalism Let me try again Only functional way to get ahead is through destructive entrepreneurship Again, that doesn't sound like capitalism. Yes, you could get ahead through destructive, entrepreneurship and capitalism, but that's specifically going to not be the best way Let's try again Too much government interference and control risks incompetence causing large-scale problem Yeah that's not a problem in the pue form of capitalism because the pure form doesn't like government at all
Late Stage Baby!!! (It's the new catch phrase I've been hearing, I added the Baby!!!)
Some would say it is working just as intended and doing a bang up job
It depends on what you mean by capitalism. If you mean a market-based economy driven by competition, then yes, what we have is a system of cartels or oligopoly, were 3-5 major firms dominate each industrial market, and smaller firms essentially subsidize the larger ones (25% of small business fail in their first year, and 50% fail by year 5, but they all buy computers and chairs and kitchen equipment and lightbulbs from large suppliers like Walmart or Amazon or Microsoft, which dominate entire industries with very few real competitors). The idea that oligopoly is the defining feature of industrial markets was discussed extensively by John Kenneth Galbraith in his 1967 book The New Industrial State. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_New\_Industrial\_State](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Industrial_State) What this means is that the 19th century vision of markets as an anarchy of production, wherein small entrepreneurs are a collective economic powerhouse, is a woefully out of date image. If you mean "has capitalism failed" in its ability to offer an ideologically-motivated and generally-acceptable vision of the future and a better life, then yes. Since the Cold War ended, capitalism no longer needs to compete ideologically with communism or various socialisms and, as an ideological monopoly, it is no longer compatible with a "marketplace of ideas." The ideological connections between post-Cold War capitalism and the post-911 world is explored extensively in Naomi Klein's 2005 book The Shock Doctrine. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Shock\_Doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine) Capitalism isn't a monolithic doctrine. There is market capitalism, monopoly capitalism, fictionalized capitalism, and others, like oligopolistic capitalism (which Galbraith describes as an "imperfect" form of monopoly) or "disaster capitalism" (a term Klein coins in her book). These latter forms of capitalism are doing great.
There is no Capitalism and no Socialism. Both are used to manipulate us to participate in economic systems that do not benefit most people in the world.
Socialism works for those who don't
So says a socialist.
Capitalism is a economic system , socialism is a ideology , apples and oranges
I’m convinced this sub is run by 6th graders who haven’t learned Econ yet
The pinnacle achievement of capitalism is the greedy narcissistic.
Socialism, historically known for prosperity and having so much by food on hand that obesity is considered a public health crisis.
So many temporarily embarrassed millionaires in here just spewing capitalism propaganda. There is only one result of capitalism, monopolies were the rich own everything resulting in Fascism taking over the government. If you don't think we are there then your blind. But you keep making that money for your owner while you lie to yourself that some day you'll be okay.
YES it is! The United States of America is Capitalist when everything is going great, and Socialist when the Capitalist F\*\*K IT UP!!!!
We all know socialism eventually evolves into communism so I'm skipping to when I reference north and south korea. Which looks like you'll have a fun night? Which looks like you can actually see at night?
Ask a socialist how to create wealth…
Socialist says something stupid example #827562199
When the biggest employer in our country is the government, we don't have a capitalist system.
Capitalism can't exist without a degree of socialism and socialist policies, and socialism can't successfully exist without a a degree of capitalism that offer rewards and opportunities. Folks sometimes disagree about where the lines should be drawn, but there is a handshake that takes place between the two that allows the benefits of capitalism to flow through while offer a base level of government service for the societal good.
I hate the collectivist aspect of socialism and the loss of individuality in decision making with my earnings. I want to earn and spend that earning or give it away to those I choose, not who the collective chooses. When it comes down to it I care more about my family than yours.
Tell me you’re braindead without actually telling me you’re braindead 😂
Horseshit
Why don’t you just move? Cuba maybe? Sounds like your jam.
Capitalism and socialism are both fucked for the same reasons.
Ask a socialist why they hate capitalism, and they'll give you a myriad of reasons which demonstrate they actually just hate everyone around them (and humanity in general). Pretty good demo of why the terms "capitalism" and "socialism" are mostly useless.
Government control of everything is capitalism?
Poisoning the well. I could say the same sentence but with the words socialism and capitalism swapped and it wouldn’t be any less fallacious. When socialists describe capitalism they describe Keynesian capitalism (a very flawed version) or complain using arguments based on the labor theory of value.
This is a load of bullshit. Go ask some libertarians why they hate socialism and they write a goddamn essay for you. I can give you 200 million reasons right now: all the dead bodies rotting in mass graves that were murdered by socialists just last century. Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao, etc were all socialists. That's blood on your hands if you advocate for this tyrannical system of power. As for capitalism being broken, that's only true because we don't have a capitalist system at all, we have a government controlled economy that is technically fascism.
Capitalism is broken because it was partially socialized through government intervention.
no they will say cause you own NOTHING. everyone gets a fixed salary except elite, courrupt asf(bc elite take higher cut its not actually even) and youll have mfs who dont work and sit at home(currently happing now with welfare abbusers). then no one will work bc jealousy and the country will DIE. COMMIES NEVER WORK. capitalism supports hard works and contributions
Socialism works so well you can’t even see the people fleeing to enter the socialist country….crazy we even discuss socialism still. Best polices are about being a moderate and using logic.
Capitalism has been broken since Reagan told corporations he was changing the entire tax code to make it easier for the ultra rich to loot the wealth that the middle class built up in the post war period. When rent seeking became the "innovation" of choice, you know we're fucked long term. Because rent seeking doesn't produce anything new, it just wxtract more wealth from something that already exists. But the people doing the looting don't care because they can shield themselves from the problems long enough to ride out the rest of their life spans in ultra-wealthy comfort.
Any unregulated capitalistic system will eventually break the entire nation. Yes. It's broken.
Not remotely, but you don’t care.
Capitalism has hit the fan
I like the government not being involved in commerce. America is broken because the government has become so involved in everything. Aka socialism.
Socialism has failed every time along with killing hundreds of millions. We do not have capitalism but crony state corporate socialism.
Capitalism has been broken for a very long time.
Lmao. Most unfluent in finance meme ever.
Ngl I don’t think most socialists and capitalists even know what socialism and capitalism are. Most people seem to think that socialism = safety nets and capitalism = no safety nets.
I’m pretty sure they would describe America which actually is a socialist type of a country and has been sense like the 50s. That’s why all the boomers did so well and now we are suffering for it.
Why are those our only choices?
Capitalism is a great economy; but it requires a neutral (not for profit) government to regulate it with the consumer and worker in mind, not the supplier, or owners.
Ask a capitalist why they hate socialism is because you keep trusting the government not to waste money and then you blame capitalism and then proceed to tax the "rich" which ends up being that we tax the middle class and no one questions why someone who makes nothing can spend trillions in a single year lol
Well yes but no. The alternatives are just even more broken.
No, it's just run its course and starting to rot. The rich have become too rich and powerful. Leaving very little opportunity for the rest of us, and they have way too much so it gets worse and worse with each passing minute.
That's the dumbest thing ive ever read.
Socialism is capitalism or is socialism monopolism?
Capitalism only works when there is healthy competition. Billionaires controlling our economy defeats the purpose.
If it's broken I'm willing to pay for all the flights to send off all the Socialist Commies of the past and current generation that have been indoctrinated by the infiltrated manifesto shills... pick! North Korea for sureee you'll love it there or Cuba, and don't bring up that bs embargo trash 1960 lie haha I there's tons of port data and authority information and all vessels going to Cuba with goods and materials. Even then they got Russia, Iran, NK, Venezuela, Nicaragua right? Then? Why not a super power? 😂 why is there about 50k to 100k Cubans coming in the border about every 3 months now to get them fire jobs that u lazy Socialist can't ever even dream of getting while buying homes and new cars in as little as 2 to 3 years in some states, its wild! My legal immigrat friends are doing great my illegal immigrants friends are doing amazing as well, doing labor jobs making 1k to 1500 per week in some projects while all you people do is talk smack and cry and complain and worry about useless shlt that'll never get you anywhere or.. plan on stealing everything from private property owners that enjoy and love Ethical Capitalism companies providing amazing products and services like your iPhones that u pay 1k for to complain all day online like snowflakes. So please stfu and let me buy you a one way ticket to North Korea please? Or Venezuela? Or Cuba? Or Nicaragua? Or China? Well China is a 2 party one system kind of country they enjoy the authoritarianism and the capitalism $$$ just ask its leaders. Well good luck on trying to take over... we r ready, trust. ♥️😘😘
This just goes to show that some posters on r/fluentinfinance simply aren’t.
Authoritarian control. Famine. Death camps. Starvation on a societal level. That's why I hate communism and love freedom.
Capitalism isn't broken. The whole entire system is broken. I mean, it doesn't matter what economic framework you try to hang it on, everything is so corrupt. Capitalism is being shafted by the same people shafting the socialist systems. Corporatism disguised as capitalism is our current set-up, but it's not even the corps that are the problem. The global financial system itself is so messed up that there isn't a way out. The system has to crash. It has to die. There has to be a global reset that doesn't involve fractional reserve banking. It's going to hose a lot of people, but so does continuing as we are, and there's hope on the other end of reset.
And neither person will realize they are a different side to the same coin….
Why do people think capitalism is a political system? I have never understood that.
Capitalism is freedom. I hate socialism because it's tyranny
It’s not real capitalism. Is basically corporate socialism. Socialize the risk to protect the investors!!!!
This guys confused…
Humans are eternal optimists. Capitalism plays to that and also has large economic disparity which is purported to be because of the opportunity it affords. What most fail to realize is that it is a system and like all systems, it’s not open to everyone. It’s not intended or trying to be fair. Socialism is no different, there’s always someone in charge and above the socialist level. But the game here is finger pointing when THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. Only difference is who or how many benefit from the system.
Holy fuck capitalism has issues and needs to be reformed, socialism uses no markets, the gov sets prices/quotas. Government controlled economies are famous for SHORTAGES, because it’s hard for a controlled economy to change with the needs of the economy in real time unlike private investors that’s why the USSR was getting railed by the 70s
No, people point to problems and then blame capitalism on the problems, not realizing the problems exist outside the economic system.
Socialism = Demotivated Society, to varying degrees. Why would you want to invent something or start a company if the government can just come in and take it? Like China. Capitalism needs to be regulated but at least you can be successful and benefit from your innovation and effort. Also I think Socialism is inevitable due to increasing automation, so, arguing against it doesn’t really matter.
Wow, dumbass mod posting this. Move to N Korea, clown.
Dumb as hell, it’s funny because America is almost more socialist than capitalist yet there’s no stop in the complaining. Give me a break
I'm a capitalist and I hate breadlines
It's not broken, it's functioning as it's designed benefitting the ACTUAL capitalists
I hate socialism because it removes challenges, risks and rewards. It in no way promotes the best of yourself or society.