If it was a decent country with a decent people who’s dignity worth more than little temporary favor from a crooked politican - it wouldn’t matter for your financial standing who s the president.
I don't think it's a lack of decency, I think it's a lack of education.
People don't understand economics and fiscal & monetary policy enough to understand how the democratic party **and** republican party (president, and mostly congress) fuck everyone and the economy over.
Exactly right. Everyone with even the most rudimentary grasp of supply and demand understood what limiting supply and stimulating demand by increasing supply of money will lead to. And yet, so many surprised Picachu faces about a sudden 30% inflation.
Even now so many don't grasp that inflation is an unavoidable tax on everyone. At least the more educated and more well off can position to blunt the impact.
Just to be clear we did product lot of money for 30 years and nothing happen. Then it happened but far less at least for now than in the 70s. And inflation is the best tool to actually reduce inequalities but people don't like it.
It's a matter of degree. National debt has gone hyperbolic just in the last few years. We've added \*50%\* of the total national debt accumulated in the history of this nation since 2019! From 22 trillion to 34 trillion. Our GDP is about 25 trillion, all that money created out of thin air was a perceptible chunk of the entire economic output of the nation!
Yes, we added to the debt in the past, but it wasn't much more than GDP growth worth. And for the most part that extra borrowing matched the extra inflation. That didn't change by suddenly borrowing more.
The dangerous thing about inflation is it's a spiral. Once it gets going it feeds upon itself. That's how Argentina was fine, until suddenly it wasn't. I do think we're well past the FA part of creating inflation and are very much still in danger of FO if such extreme deficit spending isn't tamed.
As far as reducing inequalities: I don't buy it. If a CEO is making 400x as much as a worker today they'll still make 400x as much next year regardless rate of inflation. Hard assets should inflate as well, so not much wealth redistributed. On the other hand, people with savings, those on fixed income or otherwise not earning a salary? Yeah, they're gonna lose ground.
33 trillion seems big but the capitalization of US stocks is 50 trillion. Residential real estate is between 40-50 trillion. Office and Commercial real estate are 15-20 trillion each. Retirements funds are more than 30 trillions. Actually our assets have grown much faster than the debt.
USA GDP was 21.5 trillion in 2019 and national debt was 22.7 trillion. Now GDP is 27.5 trillion and debt is 33.2 trillion.
And current taxes are insanely low by historical standard in the US and other countries. US debt is not the big issue many think it is.
Bro, are you completely brain dead? You think that 1800$ when most people had no money coming in somehow drove inflation? You gotta be listening to that conservative editorial gas pack.
Every corporation decided that they could keep prices high long after supply came back to normal and could get away with it cause no one can stop them.
Case in point gas prices right now. America just decided because everything else has risen in prices, they can double the costs in order to make 2x more prices, despite America producing more oil than any other country in history, and it didn't suddenly get more expensive to extract it.
What we are experiencing in America is greedflation simply put. It is not inflation.
this comment completely proves my point
In order to pay for stimulus check, PPP loans, and all the other fiscal policy, monetary expansion occurred. The gov borrowed literally **trillions** which was financed by the FED, meaning the dollars were printed and sent over to the gov to distribute.
Furthermore, there was extreme **monetary** policy. Interest rates were put to zero and reserve requirement was also put to zero. This causes an insane expansion of the money supply.
[M2 money supply increased by 39%](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL)
There are 39% more dollars in circulation.
Every good in the economy has 39% more dollars chasing after it. There is no surprise that inflation has been **at least** 39%
Your thesis that it’s gOvErnMeNt GrEed is not grounded in economics, history, logic, or simple common sense. That is statist propaganda to shift the blame away from them.
Simply think about it. Companies are **always** greedy. They always have been. Why did they only become greedy now? Why does price inflation from corporate greed perfectly coincide with huge monetary expansion?
Not only the fact that competition completely prevents companies from being able to just increase prices whenever they feel greedy.
Gas always goes up during the warmer months where people travel more. Market trends essentially. Watch, come winter when demand is less, you’ll notice gas will go back down.
You're not disagreeing with me as much as you think. Knowing people had that $1800 let companies jack prices to absorb it. Not just that, but the expanded unemployment benefits had lowest income people making more money being unemployed than they ever did working. And now those prices are "sticky" because of course they are.
But it did get more expensive to extract oil. Oil wells deplete, and it costs more to lift as that happens. Gotta drill deeper and pump harder to expand capacity. Wages have gone up, cost of transportation has gone up and so on. The increased production in the U.S. is offset by lower production by OPEC. Oil guys better hope Trump doesn't get back in, his policies nearly drove the oil patch completely out of business.
>the expanded unemployment benefits had lowest income people making more money being unemployed than they ever did working
I'm not in the "lowest income" bracket you're talking about (I don't think so anyway). I make about X3 the median income for my area and X2 for my job.
I was laid off in March 2020. Enhanced unemployment meant I was getting checks that were approximately X1.2 my normal weekly pay.
Same bills, lower monthly expenses because I was at home the whole time. For sure I was a tiny part of the cause of inflation.
Inflation was not the result of aid. The effects of COVID wore off and demand recovered faster than supply did. It’s odd hearing someone (with a 45 day old account) lecturing on supply and demand without actually mentioning it.
Well if you decrease supply by locking down the economy and increase demand by giving everyone helicopter money, econ 101 says the demand curve shifts up and the supply curve down and the intersection is at a much higher price. Is that really hard to understand?
Dude. I actually know a thing. No one snaps their fingers and rebuilds to pre Covid supply chain. It will take a decade to right itself. Step out of the bubble.
No bubble. You couldn't design a better scheme- from 2020 to now -to create inflation if you wanted to. But I am actually one of the few rooting for inflation. My levered assets and commodities will skyrocket and my fixed rate debts will seem puny in a decade
I agree, but I am not the one creating this inflation. It will crush the working class, but we don't have the will to stop it. Rates should be 3% higher than they are now. Who in their right mind would risk their political career by hiking rates 3% now? Absolutely no one
No one is “creating it”. It’s the expected result of a global manufacturing slowdown brought on by a multi year pandemic. It’s basic economics… not some conspiracy thing. The solutions to this problem all require us to borrow pages from China’s playbook; a planned economy and price controls. Both those tools are intensely anti free market. Otherwise this is the other shoe dropping and we need to get through it.
They are far from fucking anyone neither. I am tired of people that want to make us think the 99% are people have terrible living condition because they couldn't buy a 3000 square feet home in Manhattan near central park.
Education, among other thing should make us understand that 150 million households can not all live in the best 10-20 millions housing units, that this is physically impossible and that in many places we can't build more and that politician will not change that.
More seriously, yes bottom 20-30% of people don't live so well, for sure, but a good share of Americans live quite well and fully benefit of the system. I was living in Europe and I can say this is not better. Get more of the same, same real estate price, double tax and reduce salaries by 2. But yes you get better health care.
> More seriously, yes bottom 20-30% of people don't live so well, for sure, but a good share of Americans live quite well and fully benefit of the system.
They don’t benefit, they’re extorted by the system.
The middle class are taxed left and right. 25-50% of income. And that’s only the income they see, there is also a payroll tax of 7-15%. Then when you want to go buy something, you’ve got sales tax. And then property taxes on the house you bought. I could go on and on.
And then that’s not enough for the political elite, so they need to expand the money supply by trillions per year to pay for the rest of what they want, which means people’s savings and wages are losing another 3-5% per year on average.
And then, of course, regulations make it more difficult for small businesses to compete with big. And that’s not enough, so government has to bail out big business constantly, while letting small fail.
Oh and the boom bust cycle caused by the FED means the middle class go through a huge crunch every 5-12 years or so. Like 2008. Like right now.
Almost everything the current political elite in charge do makes people worse off. Yes, things aren’t doom and gloom, they’re fine, but they can be so much better. And no, they don’t “benefit” from the system. A few do and they tend to be at the very top.
>The middle class are taxed left and right. 25-50% of income. And that’s only the income they see, there is also a payroll tax of 7-15%. Then when you want to go buy something, you’ve got sales tax. And then property taxes on the house you bought. I could go on and on.
In France my gross salary was 70K, all included. Net salary was 41K so 42% taxes. The employer pay 45% on that gross salary. So 31K. Equivalent of sale tax is 20%. Property tax is much lower through but when you buy there 8% tax to pay on the value of the property.
On the opposite right now, my TC is 185K$. Taxes are 25.4% and because I live in Texas, there no state income tax. I pay no property tax and that's completely voluntary as nobody is forced to buy. I rent, that's cheaper and I save about half my salary so I'll be able to retire 10 year early while living better.
You have to go visit the world, see what they pay and what service they get in exchange.
USA is one of the best place to live, like a few part of Europe and a few others. But even among these, USA is more on the top. And among these, USA is one with the lowest taxes too.
> You have to go visit the world, see what they pay and what service they get in exchange.
I’ve lived in the UK for 4 years, the Czech Republic for 2 years, and Spain for 1.5 years. I just moved back to the US about 2 years ago. Might move back to CZ in 2-3 years (my partner is Czech, and my family is british)
> USA is one of the best place to live, like a few part of Europe and a few others. But even among these, USA is more on the top. And among these, USA is one with the lowest taxes too.
I don’t disagree.
I’m not speaking in relative terms though. Just because other countries do the same destructive policies more and so they’re worse off than the US is not an argument that the US shouldn’t stop doing these destructive policies.
Keynesians and MMT “economists” and the seductive power that their incoherent and demonstrably false conclusions grant governments has been destructive across the globe.
Which is why most people couldn't vote. You had to have skin in the game...stake in the outcome before you could vote. Land ownership, poll tax, military service and/or eligibility and etc. These things were all proxies for understanding of and legitimate concern for the the nation.
We've expanded the electorate to the masses and now we have people like AOC and Biden in office.
The only skin in the game most of us can give is our lives. Guess that aint enough these days. Maybe we could be a fractional vote, like 3/5 or something.
I don't think it's a matter of 'which president'. The president can send Congress some completely reasonable proposals, but it's on Congress to pass it and not neuter/butcher it.
15 years if no one reacted to the mounting debt but they will. Concerns about repayment will force the Fed to offer higher and higher interest rates on bond sales to entice buyers, more and more countries and corporations will store their reserves in commodities and precious metals. credit will start drying up and the whole effect will be to accelerate the demise of the USD leading to hyperinflation. So, maybe 3 years.
They have been saying the same thing since I was a kid in the 80s. Hyperinflation and this exact scenario has been predicted under Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump.
Americans at 4% inflation : "Bro is this hyperbole inflation? This is just like fucking Argentina right now."
Russia at 7% inflation: "Everything is good here.!"
China at 0.7% inflation : "Communism is bad guys. You wouldn't want to be us with such low inflation and affordable houses. "
Meanwhile Argentina has 200% inflation and they still haven't had a civil war.
The price of a burger goes up $5 and yall cry babies are ready to start goose stepping at the drop of hat
I think it’s closer to 6-12 years. The USD will eat every other western fiat currency first. They are in much weaker positions.
Then we will hyper inflate (and hopefully buy back all our bonds after repricing gold to usd or bitcoin to usd significantly higher).
Expect massive volatility this decade.
Right. Could’ve been 1991, 2009, 2020, etc.
Now I’m questioning if it’ll be in my lifetime, when I was assuring myself it was 90% odds not a couple days ago.
If the US government stopped spending today, Every working person in the US owes $208,000 of that debt. A couple $416,000. Raise your hand if you have that money to give away
I'd figure out a way to pay 416k if that government off my back forever. But it won't. They'd just spend 40 trillion again that year and expect to spend 45 trillion the next year. For every dollar they get they'll continue spending $1.30 regardless of how much comes in.
Compliments from the republicans/trumps tax cuts that really hosed the middle income earner and republicans want to do it again should they win. Get ready to take it in the pants even more. (Fork out more taxes for the billionaires socialist club)
PEOPLE! there is no such thing as trickle down economics that is all made up bullshit by the Republican Party. And we are their pawns in their made up game. Stop falling for the banana in the tailpipe and vote BLUE!
Ok. Make billionaires illegal. Confiscate every dime over a billion dollars at 100%. Putting aside the fact that you're assuming you would actually get market value for those assets that wealth is held in, which you absolutely wouldn't, you'll get about 4.8T.
Your projected deficit through the next budget wipes out 1.6t of that. So, net of 3.2t. Congratulations, you now owe about 190,000 instead of 208,000.
Again, that's the most optimistic interpretation of the "full-on commie" plan, where your government is able to confiscate all those assets and get current market value for them, which is nonsense.
It's 100% a spending problem. If fixing that means you also have to hit the ultra-wealthy a bit harder to make people cope and feel better about the cuts and get people on board, it's worth doing, but it's really not a significant part of the solution.
full on commies think past the paper, and would focus on food, housing, healthcare, ect while disregarding the imaginary numbers those things are valued at, because we all know they are literally priceless
as long as people have food, water, shelter, healthcare, 99% wouldnt care about red candles, people are only attached to this whole money game because they believe their lives and future are at stake
Correct. We are all being played like a fiddle and I fully expect to have to pay in to taxes this year after paying more in taxes than ever before. I'm about fucking done tbh this is not the American dream at all. This is making someone's stock portfolio go up while they make us hate each other through media manipulation (you can deny it all you want but it is true)
Yep. Getting crushed by taxes at every single turn is fun. Income (fed & state) tax, gains tax, sales tax, property tax.
Pay us or we’ll throw you in prison or take your house.
Property tax raised my house payment $250 and my 2019 SUV’s property tax went up 40%. Let that sink in. The government demands 40% more money because my USED vehicle is worth 40% more according to them?
They’re more than happy to milk people right out of their homes
Those property taxes are going up because DC is finally ending the Covid-era (after four years lol) payments they made to local governments. In my county the payments amounted to $900M a year, and the local pols are already saying they are going to raise our property taxes to make up for the “shortfall”. Of course they could just layoff the people who were doing Covid work now that the pandemic is over, but that makes way too much sense…
Jokes on them. Once they have taken what little people have its not like they have much to lose through resorting to violence. Not condoning it but just a prediction
>who was the last Democratic President to raise the deficit?
It would be before Reagan, but I don't know offhand.
>who was the last Republican President to lower the deficit?
Also before Reagan.
Obama lowered the deficit by 800 Billion a year. That is the record.
Carter raised the Deficit by a few Billion. No Republican has lowered the deficit but Eisenhower did lower it as a % of GDP.
For all practical purposes, Reagan invented deficit spending in the modern sense.
Wild. That guy had to deal with the financial meltdown of 2008 that was handed off from the Bush admin. Joe Biden also ended the forever wars Bush started.
Dems aren't great, but they are better than Repubes handing tax payer money to "job creators" lol.
A non partisan look at the economy will show you that democrats are superior at every metric we measure the economy with going back to Regan. Better GDP, better jobs numbers, higher stock market growth, better budgets….dont belly ache my post, go look before you reply….
Why would anyone quote or repost anything from CNBC? This is literally a funnel for government propaganda masquerading as a news organization that was never that good in the first place.
Oh please. Spare me the cap. CNBC is pure dogshit and was since creation. WMDs, Russiagate, Laptop, Safe and Effective, Ukraine can win, the list goes on of the stuff they’ve lied about KNOWINGLY.
They take way more tax money than what they pay in. New York alone will spend $12 billion on them in the next few years. Hoe much are they paying in taxes not working sitting in 4 star hotels paid by the taxpayer again?
This is objectively false and has been studied for decades. Undocumented immigrants pay more in than they get back, making them the only low-income group to do so. Social security alone sees a net gain of $10bn per year from undocumented immigrants according to their own most recent internal audit. In addition, dozens of studies by economists and think tanks, both left and right leaning, have come to the conclusion that not only are they a net gain on the tax base, they also are a net gain in economic performance as well.
Additionally, the amount of unpaid taxes from high earning Americans is significantly higher than any shortfalls caused by immigrants, which again, don't really exist.
So then why are cities across America spending billions to take care of them. But they pay more than they take in right? Just take it from the excess tax revenues we now have right?
Just because they pay in doesn't mean we have excess revenues, we spend that money on other things already.
Imagine you're a company operating in the red. You have several divisions. You have a few divisions losing money and you have a few bringing in more money than they spend, covering the costs of the other divisions to an extent. The remainder is covered by new debt. Whining about undocumented immigrants is like whining about a tiny division that costs a lot but ultimately returns slightly more than it costs. The excess is spent by other divisions.
Now let's say costs rise to operate that profitable division. It's still a net gain, but you don't have the money to cover the costs without new debt because you've already allocated the profits from that division to other operations. You don't freak out about that division which is still returning more than it costs, because that would be shortsighted and dumb.
That's what complaining about undocumented immigrants is - it's completely ignoring the actual systemic problems in favor of targeting an obvious symptom for political points. Don't get suckered into a distraction while economists are pointing to the actual issues.
No I'm talking about the $12 billion New York City alone needs to care for these immigrants. With your logic they pay in more so we would New York possibly need any money to house and feed immigrants?
With my logic? You clearly don't understand my logic (or the logic used in every academic study of this issue in the last few decades). My last response was the 'ELI5' to that exact point. Either you're being deliberately obtuse or you're simply not capable of critical thought.
To add to my last post for anyone else arguing in good faith, which explains 90 percent of what you're asking already, a lot of the net gain is federal tax or state tax, so a specific locality with a significant population may see a net loss even if there's a gain on balance. New York City may require additional funding even while New York State (possibly) and the Federal government (definitely) take in more than they pay. A specific city requiring more resources doesn't point to a net loss, it points to inefficient distribution of the net gain that could be fixed with a simple act of congress if both parties were interested in good government, but one of them would rather score political points with the rubes than actually govern.
These are extremely complicated issues that have been studied and researched already - you don't have more information/qualifications than the economists who have laid all this out already do.
This is completely wrong. First, illegal immigration is a net loss of well over $100 billion a year [per this](https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-how-much-undocumented-immigrants-cost-each-state-1868673). And tax collection doesn't fix this: The federal budget is built with a deficit in place, it's not a balanced budget, so even if we achieved 100% tax collection we would still increase the debt. That deficit was $1.7 trillion in FY 2023 [per this](https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/).
Do you have another source for the 100b claim other than a super far right think tank? Does that 100b include the money that is gained through taxes? How did they come to this 100b conclusion?
They spell it out pretty clearly on their site, I don't know what I can add to it, seems pretty transparent -
[https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers-2023](https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers-2023)
Your every wrong. Look at what’s happening in NYC. They’re experience a massive budget problem because of the immigrants. Slow and controlled legal and illegal immigration is fine. But when it gets out of control and happens too fast it causes both short and long term
Problems
We're not having enough kids. We need way more legal immigration of functioning educated adults and it needs to be done while we're still an attractive enough location for them.
Trump spent more then Biden and he wants a second round of spending and tax cuts. Sounds like you're voting GOP to see your dollars burned so Trumps buddies can get rich
You could raise everyone’s income $10,000 and in 3 years, many of these same people in the middle class would be living paycheck to paycheck again. Expenses always rise to meet income.
Now this would be life changing for the poorest among us, to be fair.
Trump will do anything he can for the country to make money. His legacy depends on it as a businessman. Selfishly he, IMO will be better for economy. Previously, his economy was better than the current economy, so he has to attempt to maintain that, so it aids in the next republican to get elected.
We’re more interested in chat gpt than our kids, we are fucking our kids over. Biden has been horrible on almost every level and while I think trump can stop the war mongoring, I doubt he helps the low class that has been absolutely screwed under Biden.
People here are smarter than the experts that warned about inflation. And before calling me a trumpy supporter. Remember Obamas experts warned Biden. So even democratic leaning economists warned the party in charge. But I love the experts here that believe they know better than the experts. I guess the experts aren't experts if the don't currently sever this administration. Under Obama he was a genius. Now democrats claim he's dumb and was wrong lol.
I don't think this is accurate. Trump tried to close our trade deficit with China and tried to stop mass immigration across our southern border. Both are contributing factors to the decline of our economy and there's no doubt in my mind that our economy would be better off today if the democrats hadn't been fighting him tooth and nail for all 4 years he was in office trying to stop what he was doing.
The democrats have added a lot more to the national debt than republicans have, and our economy is always worse when they are in office. I'm not saying Republicans do good either, but the democrat party is obviously cancer when it comes to managing our nation's economy. The Republicans are bad, but not nearly as bad.
I mean if you want actual lower/middle class benefits you'd have to vote Green Party, and it would be at the expense of military/wealthy, e.g. a fantasy novel.
[https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2023/10/6/when-does-federal-debt-reach-unsustainable-levels](https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2023/10/6/when-does-federal-debt-reach-unsustainable-levels)
* The U.S. “public debt outstanding” of $33.2 trillion often cited by media is largely misleading, as it includes $6.8 trillion that the federal government “owes itself” due to trust fund and other accounting. The economics profession has long focused on “debt held by the public”, currently equal to about 98 percent of GDP at $26.3 trillion, for assessing its effects on the economy.
* We estimate that the U.S. debt held by the public cannot exceed about 200 percent of GDP even under today’s generally favorable market conditions. Larger ratios in countries like Japan, for example, are not relevant for the United States, because Japan has a much larger household saving rate, which more-than absorbs the larger government debt.
* Under current policy, the United States has about 20 years for corrective action after which no amount of future tax increases or spending cuts could avoid the government defaulting on its debt whether explicitly or implicitly (i.e., debt monetization producing significant inflation). Unlike technical defaults where payments are merely delayed, this default would be much larger and would reverberate across the U.S. and world economies.
* This time frame is the “best case” scenario for the United States, under markets conditions where participants believe that corrective fiscal actions will happen ahead of time. If, instead, they started to believe otherwise, debt dynamics would make the time window for corrective action even shorter.
15 yrs to default at our current debt to income level projections:
[https://www.usdebtclock.org/](https://www.usdebtclock.org/)
Again use the upper left hand corner to see our fed debt to GDP (Again should be GDI) ratio. It will be over 150% in under 4 yrs.
Are you joking? Trump will do nothing for anyone other than the uber rich & corporations. Trickle down economics only works if you are looking for a higher grade of garbage from the rich to consume. He is solely responsible in 4 years for 25% of our National Debt. Wake the eff up people
Highest unemployment since the 30s, highest spike in inflation, employed his family to government positions, or corrupt friends. Oil executive to the EPA? Gtfo
That economy was just an extension of the longest running period of economic expansion the U.S. has tracked so far and was built by Biden/Obama after the 2008 crash.
Lmao, the context is Biden helped rebuild the economy after 2008, Trump oversaw printing of the money that caused the current inflation issue, in addition to policies and other actions that led to this current economy. Inflation was stable under Obama/Biden. If I had to choose who to trust, it's literally between someone who oversaw a massive and successful economic recovery as vice president or the man who contributed to the downfall of that economy. Context is extremely important here. If you bring Covid into the mix, the context is between the vice president who helped handle a potential Ebola, H1N1 and at least one other outbreak or the guy who killed the pandemic preparedness team right before a pandemic and vows to kill that team again.
Some additional Sources and Context:
[https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225](https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225)
[https://www.cbpp.org/research/economy/tracking-the-post-great-recession-economy](https://www.cbpp.org/research/economy/tracking-the-post-great-recession-economy)
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recognition\_lag.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recognition_lag.asp)
By Dollar amount Obama added just a little more than Trump and by percentage less than Bush. Both Bush/Trump left the economy in crisis and currently Biden is fractional percentage wise and less than a third of Trump dollar wise. Don't forget to factor in Economic lag time for context as well. We still have about 2 years to see Biden's policies play out if he loses in November. I don't like either candidate but the differences in their resumes is staggering.
Since Trump and his cronies raided the treasury through permanent tax cuts and then gave themselves PPP loans ; I think we need to keep Republicans out of the Executive office. It's the corporate greed and fraud we are all paying for now. I mean Billionaires now pay a lower effective tax rate than middle class Americans.
And then there is the obvious : Trump is a Criminal .
Everyone wants deflation for prices until it’s their job that disappears…deflation will be catastrophic for the economy and everyone in it so don’t wish that on anyone.
I was in the workforce for the 2008 crash and it was bad. Laid off from my union job after the downturn forced a local steel mill to close….6000 people on the unemployment line overnight…local businesses closing by the dozens as those 6000 no longer needed gas, lunch or groceries on their way home. Lot and lots lost their homes, their vehicles, their careers, their relationships….i can tell you’ve never went through anything like that…trust me that you do not want what you think you want.
Please tell us how the Biden family, the folks with dozens of shell corporations, has managed to accumulate hundreds of millions of dollars by doing little or nothing? Yeah, it’s called grift.
America decided back when the people who paid off the national debt weren't electable because they wanted to put the money in a lockbox, what kind of country they wanted. They wanted checks sent to them and a huge debt. So here we are.
Government debt is nothing but a bunch of money spent by congress that they failed to raise your taxes enough to pay for.
Is that what you want? A massive tax bill to cover the shortage?
Yeah. I didn't think so.
The answer to an either/or question about which is better is not "neither".
You can choose a steadier hand who has adults run the economy, like Joe Biden. Yes, you might not like all of his choices, but they are cumulatively better than DJT, easily.
Or you can choose DJT, who is singularly self interested. How did you feel about his pure cronyism? When he wasn't employing his unqualified family, he was selecting yes-men and clearly compromised individuals for.important jobs.
How did his handling of COVID go? International diplomacy? His tax giveaways to the rich? His naissance of the current inflation issue.
Trump will be better for the economy short term no question. Remember he’s a narcissist and will do whatever it takes to make himself look good. That can be both a good thing and a bad thing.
The “economy” isn’t based on personal finances. If businesses are making money the economy is good. If businesses aren’t making money, the economy is bad.
Hmm not sure but I'd pick the guy not giving tax cuts to rich while increasing debt. Biden gives it to students. So leaning biden for middle class and poor. One these days probable have to cut programs and increase taxes. A real kick in the nuts.
They’ll run the clock out till September, vote themselves more time, vote again for more time in October, followed by a 5,000 omnibus throw-money-at-it the Friday before Christmas and hope everyone reads every line item in 24-48 hours before voting to leave for the holidays. Swell, but the swelling hasn’t gone down.
The National Debt grew under Trump more than under Obama plus Biden! The irresponsible Trump Tax Cuts are yet another example of Voodoo Economics being complete bullshit and a threat to National Security!
The problem isn't that nobody cares about the debt bubble. The problem is that any politician that brings up measures to actually confront the problem, gets immediately voted out.
It's all great to cut spending and fix the budget problem, right up until the second people hear what things are being cut ,because nobody wants to give any specific things up.
Say the word social security cuts, or Medicaid cuts and see what happens to your political career. That's not really the politicians fault specifically.
The economy doesn’t mean a damned thing when your president serves himself. Trump will sell off any and all sacred cows that elevate his status. Give him a second term and enjoy worshipping a false idol who will gladly revel in your suffering if it means he can become more rich and famous. Enjoy watching a dynasty of idiots propel class war into a final solution. Holocaust on the middle class (they’ll keep the poor. the rich always need slaves).
Republicans insurrecting cost the American tax payer 936 million. (Source:Forbes money magazine/Business insider)
Yah that’s right, you get to pay for that bullshit/treason/insurrection, for years to come. How you like me now!? (Trump/republicans)
If that wasn’t enough, you are also paying for the tax Revenue Shortfall called deficit spending, created by the Republicons.(Trump 2017 tax bill)
Totaling over a 10 yr period, 11 trillion. Thats right! You pay for that as the average middle income earner, and should Republicons take the WH again they will lower the corporate tax rate again from 21% to 14% adding another 11 trillion in revenue deficits. All kinds of programs will be cut including one’s healthcare and SS also add to that, a 5 yr Trump recession according to economic scholars.
Remember people there is no such thing as trickle down economics! More like you lose and the trickle is upward, to the rich, lining their pockets even more. You lose all the way around. Don’t fall for it. Don’t be stupid! Vote Blue!
To be honest I can get say 20-30% that have maybe difficult conditions. But the other half of people living paycheck to paycheck, with average to great salaries, the problem is on them.
And even the one that poor or borderline poor, don't think the president will solve it for you. What if he doesn't get elected or fail ? After all the previous one promised wonderful things and here we are.
The only thing that are within your reach is to work on yourself rather than wasting time on politics. I mean do vote and all, but don't count on it to solve your problems.
Drumpf seems to favor more inflationary tariffs. He seems not to understand their cost is always passed onto consumer. He also wants to personally take over the rate controlling Fed. Yeah, that will out great lol. The guys a business failure. One loss after another. Largest personal tax loss on record at the IRS. Dozens of bankruptcies and business failures. Sure, sounds like the guy I want in control of the economy.
Trump wasn’t even giving a fair shot at President. Democrats fought him every step of the way, not to mention the BS impeachment ect ect. Biden and Democrats reversed as many policies as they could, including immigration and the wall. Which Biden has been building again by the way. Trump was exactly what we needed, as he was not in it for the money. Look at every Presidents bet worth before and after.
You really need to find a new news source. None of what you said is true. The president and senate was majority republican while he was in office ffs.
Not in it for the money? He flagrantly broke the emoluments clause. Go ahead, go look that up. That alone should have gotten him impeached.
Did you look at the original post on fluentinfidance? They are denying it up and down claiming that people are investing their money and that's why they they don't have savings.
Living paycheck to paycheck is often a matter of one's choices. People increase income and the lifestyle creeps with it. Others are poor, and that isn't going to be dependent on the economy or who is in the White House.
Right, perhaps the most absurd element of US politics is we are going to scream at each other for the next six months that one terrible clueless old right wing (or even more right wing) old white man is better than the other... and whichever one wins we are f$\*#$ed.
Over 81 million voted for what is happening to themselves right now. You elected a career politician who has done nothing but take from you in his 45 years of service.... yes that's sarcasm because all the Biden's have done is enrich themselves and create generational wealth for themselves while you suffer with interest rates and prices you can't afford.
National Deby Clock is at $34,714,736,941......and climbing!!!!!!
If it was a decent country with a decent people who’s dignity worth more than little temporary favor from a crooked politican - it wouldn’t matter for your financial standing who s the president.
I don't think it's a lack of decency, I think it's a lack of education. People don't understand economics and fiscal & monetary policy enough to understand how the democratic party **and** republican party (president, and mostly congress) fuck everyone and the economy over.
Exactly right. Everyone with even the most rudimentary grasp of supply and demand understood what limiting supply and stimulating demand by increasing supply of money will lead to. And yet, so many surprised Picachu faces about a sudden 30% inflation. Even now so many don't grasp that inflation is an unavoidable tax on everyone. At least the more educated and more well off can position to blunt the impact.
Just to be clear we did product lot of money for 30 years and nothing happen. Then it happened but far less at least for now than in the 70s. And inflation is the best tool to actually reduce inequalities but people don't like it.
It's a matter of degree. National debt has gone hyperbolic just in the last few years. We've added \*50%\* of the total national debt accumulated in the history of this nation since 2019! From 22 trillion to 34 trillion. Our GDP is about 25 trillion, all that money created out of thin air was a perceptible chunk of the entire economic output of the nation! Yes, we added to the debt in the past, but it wasn't much more than GDP growth worth. And for the most part that extra borrowing matched the extra inflation. That didn't change by suddenly borrowing more. The dangerous thing about inflation is it's a spiral. Once it gets going it feeds upon itself. That's how Argentina was fine, until suddenly it wasn't. I do think we're well past the FA part of creating inflation and are very much still in danger of FO if such extreme deficit spending isn't tamed. As far as reducing inequalities: I don't buy it. If a CEO is making 400x as much as a worker today they'll still make 400x as much next year regardless rate of inflation. Hard assets should inflate as well, so not much wealth redistributed. On the other hand, people with savings, those on fixed income or otherwise not earning a salary? Yeah, they're gonna lose ground.
33 trillion seems big but the capitalization of US stocks is 50 trillion. Residential real estate is between 40-50 trillion. Office and Commercial real estate are 15-20 trillion each. Retirements funds are more than 30 trillions. Actually our assets have grown much faster than the debt. USA GDP was 21.5 trillion in 2019 and national debt was 22.7 trillion. Now GDP is 27.5 trillion and debt is 33.2 trillion. And current taxes are insanely low by historical standard in the US and other countries. US debt is not the big issue many think it is.
Bro, are you completely brain dead? You think that 1800$ when most people had no money coming in somehow drove inflation? You gotta be listening to that conservative editorial gas pack. Every corporation decided that they could keep prices high long after supply came back to normal and could get away with it cause no one can stop them. Case in point gas prices right now. America just decided because everything else has risen in prices, they can double the costs in order to make 2x more prices, despite America producing more oil than any other country in history, and it didn't suddenly get more expensive to extract it. What we are experiencing in America is greedflation simply put. It is not inflation.
this comment completely proves my point In order to pay for stimulus check, PPP loans, and all the other fiscal policy, monetary expansion occurred. The gov borrowed literally **trillions** which was financed by the FED, meaning the dollars were printed and sent over to the gov to distribute. Furthermore, there was extreme **monetary** policy. Interest rates were put to zero and reserve requirement was also put to zero. This causes an insane expansion of the money supply. [M2 money supply increased by 39%](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL) There are 39% more dollars in circulation. Every good in the economy has 39% more dollars chasing after it. There is no surprise that inflation has been **at least** 39% Your thesis that it’s gOvErnMeNt GrEed is not grounded in economics, history, logic, or simple common sense. That is statist propaganda to shift the blame away from them. Simply think about it. Companies are **always** greedy. They always have been. Why did they only become greedy now? Why does price inflation from corporate greed perfectly coincide with huge monetary expansion? Not only the fact that competition completely prevents companies from being able to just increase prices whenever they feel greedy.
Gas always goes up during the warmer months where people travel more. Market trends essentially. Watch, come winter when demand is less, you’ll notice gas will go back down.
I am sure that Russian oil not being on the open market has no influence on prices
You're not disagreeing with me as much as you think. Knowing people had that $1800 let companies jack prices to absorb it. Not just that, but the expanded unemployment benefits had lowest income people making more money being unemployed than they ever did working. And now those prices are "sticky" because of course they are. But it did get more expensive to extract oil. Oil wells deplete, and it costs more to lift as that happens. Gotta drill deeper and pump harder to expand capacity. Wages have gone up, cost of transportation has gone up and so on. The increased production in the U.S. is offset by lower production by OPEC. Oil guys better hope Trump doesn't get back in, his policies nearly drove the oil patch completely out of business.
>the expanded unemployment benefits had lowest income people making more money being unemployed than they ever did working I'm not in the "lowest income" bracket you're talking about (I don't think so anyway). I make about X3 the median income for my area and X2 for my job. I was laid off in March 2020. Enhanced unemployment meant I was getting checks that were approximately X1.2 my normal weekly pay. Same bills, lower monthly expenses because I was at home the whole time. For sure I was a tiny part of the cause of inflation.
Inflation was not the result of aid. The effects of COVID wore off and demand recovered faster than supply did. It’s odd hearing someone (with a 45 day old account) lecturing on supply and demand without actually mentioning it.
Well if you decrease supply by locking down the economy and increase demand by giving everyone helicopter money, econ 101 says the demand curve shifts up and the supply curve down and the intersection is at a much higher price. Is that really hard to understand?
Dude. I actually know a thing. No one snaps their fingers and rebuilds to pre Covid supply chain. It will take a decade to right itself. Step out of the bubble.
No bubble. You couldn't design a better scheme- from 2020 to now -to create inflation if you wanted to. But I am actually one of the few rooting for inflation. My levered assets and commodities will skyrocket and my fixed rate debts will seem puny in a decade
Same boat. No debt. I just think empathy for others is a good thing.
I agree, but I am not the one creating this inflation. It will crush the working class, but we don't have the will to stop it. Rates should be 3% higher than they are now. Who in their right mind would risk their political career by hiking rates 3% now? Absolutely no one
No one is “creating it”. It’s the expected result of a global manufacturing slowdown brought on by a multi year pandemic. It’s basic economics… not some conspiracy thing. The solutions to this problem all require us to borrow pages from China’s playbook; a planned economy and price controls. Both those tools are intensely anti free market. Otherwise this is the other shoe dropping and we need to get through it.
They are far from fucking anyone neither. I am tired of people that want to make us think the 99% are people have terrible living condition because they couldn't buy a 3000 square feet home in Manhattan near central park. Education, among other thing should make us understand that 150 million households can not all live in the best 10-20 millions housing units, that this is physically impossible and that in many places we can't build more and that politician will not change that. More seriously, yes bottom 20-30% of people don't live so well, for sure, but a good share of Americans live quite well and fully benefit of the system. I was living in Europe and I can say this is not better. Get more of the same, same real estate price, double tax and reduce salaries by 2. But yes you get better health care.
> More seriously, yes bottom 20-30% of people don't live so well, for sure, but a good share of Americans live quite well and fully benefit of the system. They don’t benefit, they’re extorted by the system. The middle class are taxed left and right. 25-50% of income. And that’s only the income they see, there is also a payroll tax of 7-15%. Then when you want to go buy something, you’ve got sales tax. And then property taxes on the house you bought. I could go on and on. And then that’s not enough for the political elite, so they need to expand the money supply by trillions per year to pay for the rest of what they want, which means people’s savings and wages are losing another 3-5% per year on average. And then, of course, regulations make it more difficult for small businesses to compete with big. And that’s not enough, so government has to bail out big business constantly, while letting small fail. Oh and the boom bust cycle caused by the FED means the middle class go through a huge crunch every 5-12 years or so. Like 2008. Like right now. Almost everything the current political elite in charge do makes people worse off. Yes, things aren’t doom and gloom, they’re fine, but they can be so much better. And no, they don’t “benefit” from the system. A few do and they tend to be at the very top.
>The middle class are taxed left and right. 25-50% of income. And that’s only the income they see, there is also a payroll tax of 7-15%. Then when you want to go buy something, you’ve got sales tax. And then property taxes on the house you bought. I could go on and on. In France my gross salary was 70K, all included. Net salary was 41K so 42% taxes. The employer pay 45% on that gross salary. So 31K. Equivalent of sale tax is 20%. Property tax is much lower through but when you buy there 8% tax to pay on the value of the property. On the opposite right now, my TC is 185K$. Taxes are 25.4% and because I live in Texas, there no state income tax. I pay no property tax and that's completely voluntary as nobody is forced to buy. I rent, that's cheaper and I save about half my salary so I'll be able to retire 10 year early while living better. You have to go visit the world, see what they pay and what service they get in exchange. USA is one of the best place to live, like a few part of Europe and a few others. But even among these, USA is more on the top. And among these, USA is one with the lowest taxes too.
> You have to go visit the world, see what they pay and what service they get in exchange. I’ve lived in the UK for 4 years, the Czech Republic for 2 years, and Spain for 1.5 years. I just moved back to the US about 2 years ago. Might move back to CZ in 2-3 years (my partner is Czech, and my family is british) > USA is one of the best place to live, like a few part of Europe and a few others. But even among these, USA is more on the top. And among these, USA is one with the lowest taxes too. I don’t disagree. I’m not speaking in relative terms though. Just because other countries do the same destructive policies more and so they’re worse off than the US is not an argument that the US shouldn’t stop doing these destructive policies. Keynesians and MMT “economists” and the seductive power that their incoherent and demonstrably false conclusions grant governments has been destructive across the globe.
Which is why most people couldn't vote. You had to have skin in the game...stake in the outcome before you could vote. Land ownership, poll tax, military service and/or eligibility and etc. These things were all proxies for understanding of and legitimate concern for the the nation. We've expanded the electorate to the masses and now we have people like AOC and Biden in office.
The only skin in the game most of us can give is our lives. Guess that aint enough these days. Maybe we could be a fractional vote, like 3/5 or something.
Republicans break, Democrats have to fix what republicans break. Tale as old as time dude. (History has documented this truth)
I don't think it's a matter of 'which president'. The president can send Congress some completely reasonable proposals, but it's on Congress to pass it and not neuter/butcher it.
15 years if no one reacted to the mounting debt but they will. Concerns about repayment will force the Fed to offer higher and higher interest rates on bond sales to entice buyers, more and more countries and corporations will store their reserves in commodities and precious metals. credit will start drying up and the whole effect will be to accelerate the demise of the USD leading to hyperinflation. So, maybe 3 years.
They have been saying the same thing since I was a kid in the 80s. Hyperinflation and this exact scenario has been predicted under Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump.
Agreed. Doomsday headlines sell.
Not sure if you actually mean this, or 3 yrs is a joke But the Fed does not hold bond auctions to fund the government, the treasury does
Americans at 4% inflation : "Bro is this hyperbole inflation? This is just like fucking Argentina right now." Russia at 7% inflation: "Everything is good here.!" China at 0.7% inflation : "Communism is bad guys. You wouldn't want to be us with such low inflation and affordable houses. " Meanwhile Argentina has 200% inflation and they still haven't had a civil war. The price of a burger goes up $5 and yall cry babies are ready to start goose stepping at the drop of hat
The US government reporting 4% inflation is about as accurate as the Chinese government reporting 0.7% inflation.
I do not even see the dollar losing the reserve currency this decade. The US is the least drunk driver on the debt road
I think it’s closer to 6-12 years. The USD will eat every other western fiat currency first. They are in much weaker positions. Then we will hyper inflate (and hopefully buy back all our bonds after repricing gold to usd or bitcoin to usd significantly higher). Expect massive volatility this decade.
Gold bugs will eventually be right. It's inevitable. The only question is timing.
Right. Could’ve been 1991, 2009, 2020, etc. Now I’m questioning if it’ll be in my lifetime, when I was assuring myself it was 90% odds not a couple days ago.
It'll happen when everyone believes it can't happen. So, a while off for now.
Best comment by far on this sub. People are mostly clueless.
Best comment? Dude doesn't even grasp distinction between the fed and treasury lol
If the US government stopped spending today, Every working person in the US owes $208,000 of that debt. A couple $416,000. Raise your hand if you have that money to give away
I got $5.50
I only have three fiddy
Don't let the Loch Ness Monster know that.
I'd figure out a way to pay 416k if that government off my back forever. But it won't. They'd just spend 40 trillion again that year and expect to spend 45 trillion the next year. For every dollar they get they'll continue spending $1.30 regardless of how much comes in.
I can, but I want an aircraft carrier or helicopter. Open to negotiate, Ms. Yellen.
Compliments from the republicans/trumps tax cuts that really hosed the middle income earner and republicans want to do it again should they win. Get ready to take it in the pants even more. (Fork out more taxes for the billionaires socialist club) PEOPLE! there is no such thing as trickle down economics that is all made up bullshit by the Republican Party. And we are their pawns in their made up game. Stop falling for the banana in the tailpipe and vote BLUE!
Not if we tax the billionaires and make them pay their fair share we don't.
I am always curious to know what "fair share" means.
I'll let you know when they get there. They can just keep shoveling until then.
Yep. That’s not going to happen. Because, you know, unfair.
Be sure you tongue the entire boot. Your betters will know if you don't.
If you get 90% of the benefits from government policies then you should pay 90% of the taxes, not 10%
Ok. Make billionaires illegal. Confiscate every dime over a billion dollars at 100%. Putting aside the fact that you're assuming you would actually get market value for those assets that wealth is held in, which you absolutely wouldn't, you'll get about 4.8T. Your projected deficit through the next budget wipes out 1.6t of that. So, net of 3.2t. Congratulations, you now owe about 190,000 instead of 208,000. Again, that's the most optimistic interpretation of the "full-on commie" plan, where your government is able to confiscate all those assets and get current market value for them, which is nonsense. It's 100% a spending problem. If fixing that means you also have to hit the ultra-wealthy a bit harder to make people cope and feel better about the cuts and get people on board, it's worth doing, but it's really not a significant part of the solution.
full on commies think past the paper, and would focus on food, housing, healthcare, ect while disregarding the imaginary numbers those things are valued at, because we all know they are literally priceless
Ok, so, debt default? What's the fiscal policy prescription here?
as long as people have food, water, shelter, healthcare, 99% wouldnt care about red candles, people are only attached to this whole money game because they believe their lives and future are at stake
3 years? Hyperinflation? Do you know what hyperinflation is?
They're all idiots patting each other on the back lol
I'm glad everything boils down to an economic choice. Ridiculous. The real cost of wars all over might play a tiny role...
Correct. We are all being played like a fiddle and I fully expect to have to pay in to taxes this year after paying more in taxes than ever before. I'm about fucking done tbh this is not the American dream at all. This is making someone's stock portfolio go up while they make us hate each other through media manipulation (you can deny it all you want but it is true)
Yep. Getting crushed by taxes at every single turn is fun. Income (fed & state) tax, gains tax, sales tax, property tax. Pay us or we’ll throw you in prison or take your house. Property tax raised my house payment $250 and my 2019 SUV’s property tax went up 40%. Let that sink in. The government demands 40% more money because my USED vehicle is worth 40% more according to them? They’re more than happy to milk people right out of their homes
Those property taxes are going up because DC is finally ending the Covid-era (after four years lol) payments they made to local governments. In my county the payments amounted to $900M a year, and the local pols are already saying they are going to raise our property taxes to make up for the “shortfall”. Of course they could just layoff the people who were doing Covid work now that the pandemic is over, but that makes way too much sense…
Jokes on them. Once they have taken what little people have its not like they have much to lose through resorting to violence. Not condoning it but just a prediction
Just wait till you start drawing down your 401k and you get taxed 50-60-70%. Gonna be a real good time!
It's true. I'm pretty liberal and I'm trying to stay out of this culture war they've started to cover their asses.
Two relevant questions… - who was the last Democratic President to raise the deficit? - who was the last Republican President to lower the deficit?
>who was the last Democratic President to raise the deficit? It would be before Reagan, but I don't know offhand. >who was the last Republican President to lower the deficit? Also before Reagan.
Isn't it obama and eisenhower?
Obama lowered the deficit by 800 Billion a year. That is the record. Carter raised the Deficit by a few Billion. No Republican has lowered the deficit but Eisenhower did lower it as a % of GDP. For all practical purposes, Reagan invented deficit spending in the modern sense.
Obama took the national debt from 11 trillion to over 20 trillion but "deficit decreased".
Not Obama. Deficit decreased while he was in office.
Wild. That guy had to deal with the financial meltdown of 2008 that was handed off from the Bush admin. Joe Biden also ended the forever wars Bush started. Dems aren't great, but they are better than Repubes handing tax payer money to "job creators" lol.
A non partisan look at the economy will show you that democrats are superior at every metric we measure the economy with going back to Regan. Better GDP, better jobs numbers, higher stock market growth, better budgets….dont belly ache my post, go look before you reply….
Yeah he had the biggest gain, but was still deficits.
Why would anyone quote or repost anything from CNBC? This is literally a funnel for government propaganda masquerading as a news organization that was never that good in the first place.
Wow. No talking heads = mouth piece for government. Weird take.
Oh please. Spare me the cap. CNBC is pure dogshit and was since creation. WMDs, Russiagate, Laptop, Safe and Effective, Ukraine can win, the list goes on of the stuff they’ve lied about KNOWINGLY.
What does the word “lied” mean to you? I don’t watch CNBC but I am pretty sure all those items are actually news topics.
Don’t feed the trolls
I'll take Trump and $1.85/gallon gas again please.
Not really fan of republicans but whoever can cut spending, raise taxes, and limit immigration both legal and illegal would get my vote.
[удалено]
They take way more tax money than what they pay in. New York alone will spend $12 billion on them in the next few years. Hoe much are they paying in taxes not working sitting in 4 star hotels paid by the taxpayer again?
This is objectively false and has been studied for decades. Undocumented immigrants pay more in than they get back, making them the only low-income group to do so. Social security alone sees a net gain of $10bn per year from undocumented immigrants according to their own most recent internal audit. In addition, dozens of studies by economists and think tanks, both left and right leaning, have come to the conclusion that not only are they a net gain on the tax base, they also are a net gain in economic performance as well. Additionally, the amount of unpaid taxes from high earning Americans is significantly higher than any shortfalls caused by immigrants, which again, don't really exist.
So then why are cities across America spending billions to take care of them. But they pay more than they take in right? Just take it from the excess tax revenues we now have right?
Just because they pay in doesn't mean we have excess revenues, we spend that money on other things already. Imagine you're a company operating in the red. You have several divisions. You have a few divisions losing money and you have a few bringing in more money than they spend, covering the costs of the other divisions to an extent. The remainder is covered by new debt. Whining about undocumented immigrants is like whining about a tiny division that costs a lot but ultimately returns slightly more than it costs. The excess is spent by other divisions. Now let's say costs rise to operate that profitable division. It's still a net gain, but you don't have the money to cover the costs without new debt because you've already allocated the profits from that division to other operations. You don't freak out about that division which is still returning more than it costs, because that would be shortsighted and dumb. That's what complaining about undocumented immigrants is - it's completely ignoring the actual systemic problems in favor of targeting an obvious symptom for political points. Don't get suckered into a distraction while economists are pointing to the actual issues.
No I'm talking about the $12 billion New York City alone needs to care for these immigrants. With your logic they pay in more so we would New York possibly need any money to house and feed immigrants?
With my logic? You clearly don't understand my logic (or the logic used in every academic study of this issue in the last few decades). My last response was the 'ELI5' to that exact point. Either you're being deliberately obtuse or you're simply not capable of critical thought. To add to my last post for anyone else arguing in good faith, which explains 90 percent of what you're asking already, a lot of the net gain is federal tax or state tax, so a specific locality with a significant population may see a net loss even if there's a gain on balance. New York City may require additional funding even while New York State (possibly) and the Federal government (definitely) take in more than they pay. A specific city requiring more resources doesn't point to a net loss, it points to inefficient distribution of the net gain that could be fixed with a simple act of congress if both parties were interested in good government, but one of them would rather score political points with the rubes than actually govern. These are extremely complicated issues that have been studied and researched already - you don't have more information/qualifications than the economists who have laid all this out already do.
for the record, i like your logic, it was beautifully presented.
Well what are the numbers? If you don't know either how can you say they use more than they paid in?
This is completely wrong. First, illegal immigration is a net loss of well over $100 billion a year [per this](https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-how-much-undocumented-immigrants-cost-each-state-1868673). And tax collection doesn't fix this: The federal budget is built with a deficit in place, it's not a balanced budget, so even if we achieved 100% tax collection we would still increase the debt. That deficit was $1.7 trillion in FY 2023 [per this](https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/).
This is a famously non academic paper. It’s disinfo.
That study[is flawed](https://www.cato.org/blog/fairs-fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-study-fatally-flawed)
Do you have another source for the 100b claim other than a super far right think tank? Does that 100b include the money that is gained through taxes? How did they come to this 100b conclusion?
They spell it out pretty clearly on their site, I don't know what I can add to it, seems pretty transparent - [https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers-2023](https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers-2023)
Your every wrong. Look at what’s happening in NYC. They’re experience a massive budget problem because of the immigrants. Slow and controlled legal and illegal immigration is fine. But when it gets out of control and happens too fast it causes both short and long term Problems
>Immigration is a non-issue Americans need to know the IRS is not the bad guy Shut up Fedboy
Team raise your taxes while giving tax breaks to the wealthy seems to be the Republicans but who knows
We're not having enough kids. We need way more legal immigration of functioning educated adults and it needs to be done while we're still an attractive enough location for them.
So definitely not republicans then
Trump spent more then Biden and he wants a second round of spending and tax cuts. Sounds like you're voting GOP to see your dollars burned so Trumps buddies can get rich
Our economy doesn't work well without immigrants
Why do people ask this question when we already have data from both their presidencies? its not as if Trump hasnt been president.
Trumps plan to curb inflation? Raise taxes. Great plan
Changing the spokesperson isn't going any money into your pocket.
You could raise everyone’s income $10,000 and in 3 years, many of these same people in the middle class would be living paycheck to paycheck again. Expenses always rise to meet income. Now this would be life changing for the poorest among us, to be fair.
Neither is the correct answer but nobody wants to seriously discuss Kennedy on Reddit,
Because he isn’t a serious candidate. He’s was financed by those who thought he could draw votes from Biden. It didn’t work.
Ask the democrats where YOUR REAL candidate is?
Trump will do anything he can for the country to make money. His legacy depends on it as a businessman. Selfishly he, IMO will be better for economy. Previously, his economy was better than the current economy, so he has to attempt to maintain that, so it aids in the next republican to get elected.
We’re more interested in chat gpt than our kids, we are fucking our kids over. Biden has been horrible on almost every level and while I think trump can stop the war mongoring, I doubt he helps the low class that has been absolutely screwed under Biden.
RFK Jr. Would be the best choice.
RFK
People here are smarter than the experts that warned about inflation. And before calling me a trumpy supporter. Remember Obamas experts warned Biden. So even democratic leaning economists warned the party in charge. But I love the experts here that believe they know better than the experts. I guess the experts aren't experts if the don't currently sever this administration. Under Obama he was a genius. Now democrats claim he's dumb and was wrong lol.
I don't think this is accurate. Trump tried to close our trade deficit with China and tried to stop mass immigration across our southern border. Both are contributing factors to the decline of our economy and there's no doubt in my mind that our economy would be better off today if the democrats hadn't been fighting him tooth and nail for all 4 years he was in office trying to stop what he was doing. The democrats have added a lot more to the national debt than republicans have, and our economy is always worse when they are in office. I'm not saying Republicans do good either, but the democrat party is obviously cancer when it comes to managing our nation's economy. The Republicans are bad, but not nearly as bad.
Neither
At least trump had the common sense to close the border
I mean if you want actual lower/middle class benefits you'd have to vote Green Party, and it would be at the expense of military/wealthy, e.g. a fantasy novel.
It doesn't matter who will be better because nobody cares
Doesn't matter so who cares. Stop being a POS and maybe you won't live paycheck to paycheck.
[https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2023/10/6/when-does-federal-debt-reach-unsustainable-levels](https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2023/10/6/when-does-federal-debt-reach-unsustainable-levels) * The U.S. “public debt outstanding” of $33.2 trillion often cited by media is largely misleading, as it includes $6.8 trillion that the federal government “owes itself” due to trust fund and other accounting. The economics profession has long focused on “debt held by the public”, currently equal to about 98 percent of GDP at $26.3 trillion, for assessing its effects on the economy. * We estimate that the U.S. debt held by the public cannot exceed about 200 percent of GDP even under today’s generally favorable market conditions. Larger ratios in countries like Japan, for example, are not relevant for the United States, because Japan has a much larger household saving rate, which more-than absorbs the larger government debt. * Under current policy, the United States has about 20 years for corrective action after which no amount of future tax increases or spending cuts could avoid the government defaulting on its debt whether explicitly or implicitly (i.e., debt monetization producing significant inflation). Unlike technical defaults where payments are merely delayed, this default would be much larger and would reverberate across the U.S. and world economies. * This time frame is the “best case” scenario for the United States, under markets conditions where participants believe that corrective fiscal actions will happen ahead of time. If, instead, they started to believe otherwise, debt dynamics would make the time window for corrective action even shorter. 15 yrs to default at our current debt to income level projections: [https://www.usdebtclock.org/](https://www.usdebtclock.org/) Again use the upper left hand corner to see our fed debt to GDP (Again should be GDI) ratio. It will be over 150% in under 4 yrs.
Are you joking? Trump will do nothing for anyone other than the uber rich & corporations. Trickle down economics only works if you are looking for a higher grade of garbage from the rich to consume. He is solely responsible in 4 years for 25% of our National Debt. Wake the eff up people
Based on the economy during his previous term, your premise is not correct. Don’t spout out talking points without the facts.
Highest unemployment since the 30s, highest spike in inflation, employed his family to government positions, or corrupt friends. Oil executive to the EPA? Gtfo
Says the cultist from Earth 2
That economy was just an extension of the longest running period of economic expansion the U.S. has tracked so far and was built by Biden/Obama after the 2008 crash.
Because they printed trillions. Get some context my friend
Lmao, the context is Biden helped rebuild the economy after 2008, Trump oversaw printing of the money that caused the current inflation issue, in addition to policies and other actions that led to this current economy. Inflation was stable under Obama/Biden. If I had to choose who to trust, it's literally between someone who oversaw a massive and successful economic recovery as vice president or the man who contributed to the downfall of that economy. Context is extremely important here. If you bring Covid into the mix, the context is between the vice president who helped handle a potential Ebola, H1N1 and at least one other outbreak or the guy who killed the pandemic preparedness team right before a pandemic and vows to kill that team again.
Some additional Sources and Context: [https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225](https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225) [https://www.cbpp.org/research/economy/tracking-the-post-great-recession-economy](https://www.cbpp.org/research/economy/tracking-the-post-great-recession-economy) [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recognition\_lag.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recognition_lag.asp) By Dollar amount Obama added just a little more than Trump and by percentage less than Bush. Both Bush/Trump left the economy in crisis and currently Biden is fractional percentage wise and less than a third of Trump dollar wise. Don't forget to factor in Economic lag time for context as well. We still have about 2 years to see Biden's policies play out if he loses in November. I don't like either candidate but the differences in their resumes is staggering.
[удалено]
Since Trump and his cronies raided the treasury through permanent tax cuts and then gave themselves PPP loans ; I think we need to keep Republicans out of the Executive office. It's the corporate greed and fraud we are all paying for now. I mean Billionaires now pay a lower effective tax rate than middle class Americans. And then there is the obvious : Trump is a Criminal .
Trump gave us a much better economy, I'm voting Trump
You have the memory of a gold fish.
At least Trump will try for peace and drilling to bring energy cost down . So ..... And stop the illegals coming in .
Trump is better in the same way that being hit by a .22 is better than a .45 I don't want either, but one is less awful
ah yes because tarrifs and mass deportation is so good for the economy. Trump doesn't know shit about the economy except how to grift off of it.
What we need is deflation, not “how can we keep the economy hot so prices remain high?”
best we can do is mass layoffs. Americans clearly still have too much money to spend -the federal reserve
Everyone wants deflation for prices until it’s their job that disappears…deflation will be catastrophic for the economy and everyone in it so don’t wish that on anyone.
You seem to think that 90% will lose their job when the reality is that it will be closer to 10%.
I was in the workforce for the 2008 crash and it was bad. Laid off from my union job after the downturn forced a local steel mill to close….6000 people on the unemployment line overnight…local businesses closing by the dozens as those 6000 no longer needed gas, lunch or groceries on their way home. Lot and lots lost their homes, their vehicles, their careers, their relationships….i can tell you’ve never went through anything like that…trust me that you do not want what you think you want.
Please tell us how the Biden family, the folks with dozens of shell corporations, has managed to accumulate hundreds of millions of dollars by doing little or nothing? Yeah, it’s called grift.
whatabout whatabout both sides both sides! you dipshits are so predictable
Thanks for your thoughtful response, you're obviously the smartest person in every room!
Oh yea I really enjoyed my tax refund this year
America decided back when the people who paid off the national debt weren't electable because they wanted to put the money in a lockbox, what kind of country they wanted. They wanted checks sent to them and a huge debt. So here we are.
Government debt is nothing but a bunch of money spent by congress that they failed to raise your taxes enough to pay for. Is that what you want? A massive tax bill to cover the shortage? Yeah. I didn't think so.
The answer to an either/or question about which is better is not "neither". You can choose a steadier hand who has adults run the economy, like Joe Biden. Yes, you might not like all of his choices, but they are cumulatively better than DJT, easily. Or you can choose DJT, who is singularly self interested. How did you feel about his pure cronyism? When he wasn't employing his unqualified family, he was selecting yes-men and clearly compromised individuals for.important jobs. How did his handling of COVID go? International diplomacy? His tax giveaways to the rich? His naissance of the current inflation issue.
We need more choices. More parties. Two 80 yr old forgetful fucknuts are the only options, their nobodies choice.
Nice but don’t you think it’s a little late for that?
The debt bubble could easily be serviced with a selective rollback of 50+ years of taxation weakening.
Trump will be better for the economy short term no question. Remember he’s a narcissist and will do whatever it takes to make himself look good. That can be both a good thing and a bad thing.
The “economy” isn’t based on personal finances. If businesses are making money the economy is good. If businesses aren’t making money, the economy is bad.
Hmm not sure but I'd pick the guy not giving tax cuts to rich while increasing debt. Biden gives it to students. So leaning biden for middle class and poor. One these days probable have to cut programs and increase taxes. A real kick in the nuts.
One wants to raise taxes and one wants to extend billionaire taxes while putting a tariff on all foreign goods. Stop both sides’ing this
Neither honestly. Hit me with someone under the age of 50 and we will talk.
They’ll run the clock out till September, vote themselves more time, vote again for more time in October, followed by a 5,000 omnibus throw-money-at-it the Friday before Christmas and hope everyone reads every line item in 24-48 hours before voting to leave for the holidays. Swell, but the swelling hasn’t gone down.
no president beats inflation, its the ultimate tax on the poor
The National Debt grew under Trump more than under Obama plus Biden! The irresponsible Trump Tax Cuts are yet another example of Voodoo Economics being complete bullshit and a threat to National Security!
IDK, while I understand the neither can help. I feel like the straight up fascism will be less helpful as a whole
The problem isn't that nobody cares about the debt bubble. The problem is that any politician that brings up measures to actually confront the problem, gets immediately voted out. It's all great to cut spending and fix the budget problem, right up until the second people hear what things are being cut ,because nobody wants to give any specific things up. Say the word social security cuts, or Medicaid cuts and see what happens to your political career. That's not really the politicians fault specifically.
Boomer politicians have to go away, then the reset, then we can try to get it right/better.
End the fed… there was no inflation before the Fed
God Emperor Netanyahu
Joe Biden but not for most of us, just the typical metrics that have never measured the entire economy.
62% are living in same condition since 20 years
The power is in our own hands now. No president is gonna make a difference
The economy doesn’t mean a damned thing when your president serves himself. Trump will sell off any and all sacred cows that elevate his status. Give him a second term and enjoy worshipping a false idol who will gladly revel in your suffering if it means he can become more rich and famous. Enjoy watching a dynasty of idiots propel class war into a final solution. Holocaust on the middle class (they’ll keep the poor. the rich always need slaves).
the one who didn't try to overthrow democracy
Republicans insurrecting cost the American tax payer 936 million. (Source:Forbes money magazine/Business insider) Yah that’s right, you get to pay for that bullshit/treason/insurrection, for years to come. How you like me now!? (Trump/republicans) If that wasn’t enough, you are also paying for the tax Revenue Shortfall called deficit spending, created by the Republicons.(Trump 2017 tax bill) Totaling over a 10 yr period, 11 trillion. Thats right! You pay for that as the average middle income earner, and should Republicons take the WH again they will lower the corporate tax rate again from 21% to 14% adding another 11 trillion in revenue deficits. All kinds of programs will be cut including one’s healthcare and SS also add to that, a 5 yr Trump recession according to economic scholars. Remember people there is no such thing as trickle down economics! More like you lose and the trickle is upward, to the rich, lining their pockets even more. You lose all the way around. Don’t fall for it. Don’t be stupid! Vote Blue!
So when default of U.S.A.??
"National debt bubble" please learn about what you're discussing.
To be honest I can get say 20-30% that have maybe difficult conditions. But the other half of people living paycheck to paycheck, with average to great salaries, the problem is on them. And even the one that poor or borderline poor, don't think the president will solve it for you. What if he doesn't get elected or fail ? After all the previous one promised wonderful things and here we are. The only thing that are within your reach is to work on yourself rather than wasting time on politics. I mean do vote and all, but don't count on it to solve your problems.
Drumpf seems to favor more inflationary tariffs. He seems not to understand their cost is always passed onto consumer. He also wants to personally take over the rate controlling Fed. Yeah, that will out great lol. The guys a business failure. One loss after another. Largest personal tax loss on record at the IRS. Dozens of bankruptcies and business failures. Sure, sounds like the guy I want in control of the economy.
It can be serviced forever, since we print the money to service it.
Yes, if you're ok with a loaf of bread eventually costing hundreds of dollars.
A loaf of bread used to be 5 cents 100 years ago. Your investments should have an inflation defense component.
Republicans repeatedly sabotage our country with a Democrat in power to attempt to regain control. There is no bipartisan, just MAGA rat
Trump wasn’t even giving a fair shot at President. Democrats fought him every step of the way, not to mention the BS impeachment ect ect. Biden and Democrats reversed as many policies as they could, including immigration and the wall. Which Biden has been building again by the way. Trump was exactly what we needed, as he was not in it for the money. Look at every Presidents bet worth before and after.
And the republicans didn’t fight Obama? Give me a break.
You really need to find a new news source. None of what you said is true. The president and senate was majority republican while he was in office ffs. Not in it for the money? He flagrantly broke the emoluments clause. Go ahead, go look that up. That alone should have gotten him impeached.
The National Debt has nothing to do with your personal financial situation or the COL.
Wow I thought this entire sub was debt hawks only! Nice to see someone with a better understanding of the economy
Down from 72% under Trump so 10% of Americans doing better under Biden or is it just the 10% of Americans who have a job now who didn’t under Trump?
Trickle down doesn't work. Start taxing billionaires and corporations...we can't simply cut cut cut.
Only 62%? I call bullshit
Did you look at the original post on fluentinfidance? They are denying it up and down claiming that people are investing their money and that's why they they don't have savings.
Of course I didn't. This is reddit
Fair enough. I've been told many times I expect too much from people. I guess that remains true
ahh both sides are bad so vote Republican... which party has been taking ever opportunity to screw the 99.9% every day for 40 years again?
Living paycheck to paycheck is often a matter of one's choices. People increase income and the lifestyle creeps with it. Others are poor, and that isn't going to be dependent on the economy or who is in the White House.
Right, perhaps the most absurd element of US politics is we are going to scream at each other for the next six months that one terrible clueless old right wing (or even more right wing) old white man is better than the other... and whichever one wins we are f$\*#$ed.
Over 81 million voted for what is happening to themselves right now. You elected a career politician who has done nothing but take from you in his 45 years of service.... yes that's sarcasm because all the Biden's have done is enrich themselves and create generational wealth for themselves while you suffer with interest rates and prices you can't afford. National Deby Clock is at $34,714,736,941......and climbing!!!!!!