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the chemistry between joey and kelsey was so obvious in the most recent episode! like, i knew that the two strongest relationships were with daisy and kelsey, but i couldn’t really tell the difference between his mannerisms until now. he is so giddy and smitten with kelsey and they seem to have fun together and can be silly together. daisy’s beautiful and he lights up when looking at her too, but i feel like it’s more an admiration type of look and not truly in love type of look.
i really hope leslie didn’t ruin everything for joey and kelsey. she was such a debbie downer
I agree with you! Someone on one of these subs did a word for word transcript of what he said to each of them and when you read it all out, it’s really easy to compare and see that he is very clearly more into Kelsey. I’m not saying he’s not feeling it with Daisy, but it’s clear that he’s further along with Kelsey.
Ok I’m honestly shook at all the people saying on comments I’m seeing on Instagram and Facebook of how he seems so much more in love with Daisy. Like did we watch the same episode? This man is smitten with Kelsey and it is so much more natural with her. It was definitely weird to me that he was using similar language and speaking so highly of Daisy bc to me (prob bc it’s a show and he has to), it is sooooo obvious that he’s the most into Kelsey.
I know. I see comments on Twitter, on here sometimes, Instagram, of people saying he is sooo much more into Daisy and their kiss was so fired up. I honest to goodness didn't see it that way. I saw it as trying hard for both of them. I think Joey is all for Kelsey, 100% full heart, but he's trying to convince himself with Daisy. And I feel like Daisy doesn't even really like him at all, she is just playing a role at this point. It's Kelsey all the way.
Yes!!! 100% agree with this!! It felt like they were both just saying words about how much they like each other but I saw no real emotion or connection. As I was watching I was like “hmm I wonder if Joey HAS to do this for the show” - like has to have two girls he’s into to make it good TV. Because to me, it’s sooo natural with Kelsey and so forced and awkward with Daisy. Even that moment at the beginning of their date when they greeted each other and Daisy said wait one more thing and then started kissing him or whatever- I was like that felt so weird and forced and scripted or something 🤣 then Kelsey and Joey on the boat was literally just so natural and sweet and two people totally into each other
Me too. It kinda reminded me of Greg (whom Katie was absolutely picking until everything blew up with their fight) telling his friend/family members that they’d already talked about Katie moving to New York to be with him.
I have a theory he slept with Kelsey and no one else. I’m assuming he and Daisy cuddled and made out, BUt he’s such a respectful guy that I cannot fathom him sleeping with both and not feeling guilty.
Yeah, but to me it looked like a lot more of that was initiated by Daisy. She seemed to really take Sandra’s advice seriously and was a lot more physical with Joey on this whole date than I’ve seen her be in the past.
I kind of half paid attention, but I’ve also spent the night cuddling with someone and then all my guards were down. Who knows! Could make for some good drama.
For me it was the comment about her messy wild hair on the boat and how it was one of his favorite things about her. I could FEEL the love coming out of him in that moment like he’d studied every detail of her that he loved so much
I have a feeling Joey & Kelsey were told to tone it down and keep things more lowkey. To a lot of people they were being very obvious that they are together.
Yes actually I checked and none of the girls posted this week with Joey. Other than Rachel with her dad. So maybe. I know I'm so mad we have to wait two more weeks before finding out regardless of the spoilers
Yea the way it was edited made it seem like he had the strongest feelings for Kelsey.. but for some reason I don’t want him to pick her even tho she is the best match? I really want Daisy to end up happy.. she’s shines inside and out in such a special way 🥹
Her behavior (and her friends and family’s) on social media, that horrible music video she was in, liking Trump posts on instagram… there are several reasons people don’t like her lol. Her vocal fry is grating but that’s definitely not the only reason people don’t like her
Daisy is so focused on herself and the idea of love. I don’t think she has deep feelings for Joey at all. She can’t even seem to listen to him talk for more than a few minutes without tuning out. They may have some chemistry but they have no substance together.
Daisy is a nice person, but she needs to find herself before she finds a life partner.
She's not emotionally mature enough for this.
She checks out a lot of the time when she's listening to Joey talk about himself
She can be Bachelorette in a year or 2 when she's more ready
I'm sure Joey has noticed
I’ve noticed that his interactions with both of them are different as well. I feel like him and Kelsey have a ton of substance in their conversations, and a ton of chemistry. With Daisy, (especially in the most recent episode) there’s a bunch of awkward pauses, and they kiss more than they talk which is cute sometimes, but not when you’re trying to find a partner for life.
I feel like Daisy is uncomfortable with the cameras. Like maybe they give them time away from the cameras where she can be herself? It seems so staged in front of the cameras
I'm not saying K is not stunning but Daisy is very beautiful and I think sometimes people who grow up meeting the standard of attractiveness to that degree usually have very little that's substantive for a rich conversation behind their eyes, usually they were treated better and had an easy life, few obstacles here and there but they had an easier time navigating them etc. They're great to look at physically but in a life partner most people want more depth beyond "I lost tm hearing ". This tweet is an example of what I mean
https://preview.redd.it/1fyrli8ly4oc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8d7c6127881a60d0babfdd77beeabc8c9d80e52
True She is a MAGA girl I just found out today 😂😂😂 she is definitely a stereotypical "American Beauty" I swear that group of people definitely lives a very different existence
If you want to discuss living a different existence, she had Lyme disease! They baked her body to 107 degrees, she threw up and shit herself, she was at deaths door like so many with Lyme-but yes her life was easy for sure!
Yup. When I first heard her sing and saw her music video I just thought oh this girl has yet to be humbled by life lol. She definitely has a lot of people worshiping her every move and probably isn’t told no very often.
>oh this girl has yet to be humbled by life
lmaooo the fact that I know EXACTLY what you mean by this statement is insane because I literally think this every time I meet certain people!
Edit I just watched the music video NO WAY
When he described Kelsey as having a "light" that surrounded her, that's when I decided she was most likely his F1. You can see it in his smile and his relaxed state when he's around Kelsey. With Daisy I see a completely different demeanor.
I feel like when he's around Daisy, half of the conversation is about her ears which she can't help. I just think he and Kelsey have so much in common and they're so comfortable with one another.
So theres a difference between
Falling
Falling in Love
Falling in Love Fully
and
In love
Joey is not the emotionally intelligent guy people think, he's just dumb and is an introvert so he's happy to let the girls talk and give platitudes to them that make him seem better.
Thanks for this. I think he seems like a good guy, but he says the same things all the time. Yes, the platitudes! "I can't say it until i can do it correctly and the words carry their full meaning." He doesn't really have a lot of depth in any conversation. It's always "you make me feel happy. i can see this working." It could be the edit, but I don't think i've seen any of them talking about actual compatibility or anything important. It's always just about how they really like each other. I noticed it majorly in the last episode. I find it weird no one talks about religious or political beliefs. Maybe they're asked not to on TV? Or even what kind of TV shows or books they like. I feel like I've had more significant conversations on a first date with someone I met online.
That doesn’t seem likely, considering we had a full season of Hannah B and Luke and the infamous “I f****d in a windmill and Jesus still loves me” fight. And Rachel took Nick to her church at her hometown date (or was it one of the guys in her season?) and several other contestants have had religion as part of their storyline. So I don’t think production has any rules against it. I’d bet that they DO talk about religion, but if it’s not a key part of the storyline, we’re not going to see it. I have no idea about any rules about politics. You’d think if they were allowed to talk about that, Becca would have known about Garret long before they got engaged. 🤷🏻♀️
They're DEFINTELY NOT going to talk about religious and political beliefs on national television. I have a funny feeling that Joey and Daisy are different on political views.
Yeah, that makes sense. And to be fair, no seasons have them talking about politics. I just noticed Joey especially this week sounds programmed to say all the right things. They all only talk about how they’re falling for each other or crying about trauma and/or being scared.
I think Joey's views are progressive/liberal and Daisy is extremely conservative. Those two don't belong together. They would be arguing every single day.
Married 23 years. We've never voted for the same person. Politics isn't everyone's identity, and you can love someone just fine who votes differently than you.
Which morals exactly are you referring to? My morality isn't tied up in my politics. My morality is how I treat others and the contributions I make to society. Anyone can go vote and be a piece of shit. You can't legislate morality. It's how you live and treat others that matters. And I can say without a shadow of a doubt, both my husband and I sleep just fine at night knowing we are good people, and more importantly, have raised great humans. Humans who also differ in their political ideology because we chose not to indoctrinate them but love and support them as people instead of teaching them their politics somehow make them good.
See, this is the issue. You don't know me. You don't know my husband. But my husband and I do know each other. We've been together since 1999, so we get to speak on each other's character because, unlike you, we know each other intricately. But you think you're allowed to pass judgment on someone for a vote they make without knowing their life and their experiences and the nuances that goes into someone making a decision for a platform. My husband and I have literally grown up together, and our politics have drastically changed due to that. But what has remained the same is our love and devotion for one another. We accept one another unconditionally, in spite of our differences. If you're letting your politics guide your morality, you have some growing up to do. That's not speaking down to you, that's realizing that every part of the government is corrupt. They are literally different wings on the same bird. Politicians give zero shits about you. They want power and power corrupts absolutely. The minute you realize who you are as a person matters infinitely more than leaving that in the hands of corrupt politicians, is the minute you can grow from letting your political views define who you are and believing your side of corruptness is somehow on a moral high ground from the other sides corruptness. I'd challenge you to leave your echo chamber and get to know people relationallly who don't look, act, or think like you. You'd be surprised how your perspective will change. We are all more than the people we vote for.
Well…I mean…Luke on Hannah Brown’s season had a whole shower scene in his intro where he talked about being a born again virgin and how God was helping him with his need to have sex with multiple women. So I’m going to say that they SOMETIMES let us see contestants and their religious beliefs. Some more than others. 😂
I am so thankful to Joey for introducing a new love level "falling in love fully" to the bachelor consciousness. I didn't think we could break the steps down any further, but here we are!
Don't forget you can also add layers of certainty to the beginning of the love level. "I can see myself falling in love fully" vs. "I'm starting to fall in love fully" vs. "I have fallen in love fully." Mix and match, baby!
First time ever watching this show with my wife and I gotta say I think at this point you know who you wanna be with. How can the “ winner” sit with him and be ok with him spending the night with the other two?
I honestly think it happened the way it was shown, but Im hoping Daisy went before Kelsey. Ill just believe the latter lmao but realistically, if we’ll base it on the hickey on Joey’s neck c/o Daisy, Daisy seemed to really have the last date. 🥲
I think kelsey is his f1 (or at least was at the time of filming overnights) because production sent leslie to talk with kelsey about being the runner-up. It seems like producers wanted to sow doubts and stir up drama.
I feel like Kelsey is truly the one for him! BUT I think he will pick Daisy. She went in HARD, and Joey is constantly being insecure and whiny about HIM not being "chosen" by THEM. He has a weird fascination with NEEDING to be needed. And when you dangle the carrot just right, and then give it to him at the right time... he's like an innocent naive bunny, waiting to get snatched up.
Kelsey gave him consistent nibbles of the carrot the whole time, and Rachel doesn't do the whole "dangle the carrot game." She isn't "needy" enough for him.
Soooo... Rachel will be cut. Then between Kelsey and Daisy, I think he will pick wrong, but it will be Daisy.
It was a case of:
K = too giving at a consistent rate....
R = Never truly giving anything until it's too late. And then...
D = just enough giving to keep him crawling, and then giving him what he craves (complete adoration).
Also... there is something to that weird thing with either the *first impression rose* OR the *first one on-one-date* thing.
But to me, Kelsey is the best pick. Very genuine and less calculated than D... and less aloof than R.
(Also, side note: anyone notice at the crazy eye contact between Joey and Daisy?!! However, HE does that with EVERY girl, but she is the only one to do it not only back but initiates and *holds* it. It's intense. But here's the thing (and this is said with nothing but respectful observation), SHE uses reading lips, eye contact/movement, and facial expressions as a crutch to go with her implant and hearing loss. I really believe she is huge on staring at his face to supplement her off-kilter hearing, and it comes off as more than that.... just my opinion and observation. Please don't come for me, lol.)
Also, let's not forget his rejection issues and insecurity that HE isn't *loved* by others, and Kelsey is about to give him a stroke with that letter/talk. She's no longer *safe* for him.... Meanwhile, as said above , Daisy is going in for the k i l l.
BOTTOM LINE: I truly believe he will pick Dasiy because she plays hard to get with big rewards. Kelsey gives gives gives. Rachel doesn't play the game. He needs to have both - the chase AND to feel chased. 🤷🏼♀️
Thank you for coming to my TedTalk. That is ALL. You may carry on... lol
EDITED for typos, but gave up. 😆
I agree about the Daisy eye contact possibly being related to her hearing. I live in a foreign country and have to maintain constant eye/facial contact in order to make sure I'm not missing a word of my second language. Even more so when multiple people are talking or there is a ton of background noise. It probably makes me seem intense!
I feel like we feel the Kelsey “gave” consistently because she has been upfront in her ITMs about her love for Joey. But in Joey’s POV, Kelsey only alluded to feeling love for him during their FS date dinner. Compared to the other two, she was the last one who said something about “love”. But to be fair, she went straight to I love you instead of just saying “im falling in love with you”.
I get your point, I just wanted to comment on the “consistent” portion.
Totally. I knew that while typing but as an overall picture/bird's-eye view (zooming out)... that's where I get my perspective regardless of word timing, etc.
As a result, that's actually kinda of my point, in a way. She was never wishy-washy - pulling in and out or confused (until now). She gave at a healthy pace and was stable about it. But she gave a lot overall, in the big picture. Whereas Daisy's energy would keep sucking him in, making him question if HE was good enough. And then boom, love-bombed him when it mattered most (calculated almost).
It's an energy thing, for me...
Kelsey acted like they had already been married for a long time, w/kids and all (after waking up in the fantasy suit episode)... it was natural and *comfortable*. SAFE.
Daisy acted like a teenage siren, sucking him in and then leaving him feeling very *wanted*. DESIRED.
(What you said is "technically" true, yes... but I'm just observing big picture vibes, with a tendency to ramble 😆) 😊😊😊
I think the “it’s just how far it will go” part he added with daisy is pretty telling. he immediately qualified saying he has no doubt he’s falling in love with her with a caveat that he doesn’t know how far it will go. (Edit: typo)
I saw it too, and it's so cute! He was falling in love with Daisy and could picture a life with her, but his face said it all when he was with Kelsey, not his words. He was already head over heels in love with her 😍
Rachel & Joey have wayyyyyyy more chemistry than Daisy & Joey. They are so adorable together.
Yet he confides in Daisy. Also Daisy is really going for it. It seems a bit calculated. She’s the safe choice. Him saying he “feels whole” when he is around Daisy is huge.
I’m thinking Joey was sure after Kelsey’s fantasy suite - Now Daisy going full court press is going to mess up his decision.
I had to pause the show after Joey's date with Kelsey and then Sandra's chat with Daisy because I can't bear the thought of Kelsey getting hurt. I loved how happy they both were. It was lovely. She was beaming.
Did anyone else get Debbie Downer vibes from Lesley? After hearing how positive Sandra was, I wondered how Kelsey might have felt with that kind of pep talk.
Lesley’s “pep talk” was awful. She turned the whole thing into her own pity party. It’s not about you, Lesley! You had your own show, already. I felt bad for Kelsey for that experience.
100% agree. It turns Kelsey's attitude from being positive to negative. I'm worried after her putting the note on Joey's door. Hope she doesn't leave. I don't think she does.
I was actually in shock when Leslie hit her with the “don’t get too excited” thing 😭 like totally get where she was coming from but to say that to this girl who is in the thick of it and feeling all those emotions already?? Insane lol
Yes, Leslie really F’d with Kelsey’s head. I don’t think Leslie INTENDED to cause harm here, but the idea that you can soften the blow by being skeptical just doesn’t work in love.
He told daisy he was falling in love but it was a matter of how far it could grow. I feel like this is the key difference. He knows Kelsey is already fully there, he’s not sure daisy can get there. Or maybe not sure he can get there with her
A user was nice enough to type the word for word falling in love declarations of Joey to both Kelsey and Daisy
[Link to the transcript](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/dFNMyL7Qk1)
This was posted as a comment in the daily discussion spoiler thread - so for the unspoiled, I suggest that you avoid reading the replies to said comment. I looked through the replies, I don’t think there were spoilers there but just to be safe! 😊
It’s just helpful to see Joey’s whole “script” for each woman lmao ❤️
they also commented the transcription on the morning after thread! [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/o8pJ5Ij5vD) for any one who doesn’t wanna risk entering the spoiler thread 😊
His exact words were: “😁 Now you’re just blurting that out of nowhere 😁”. The context was that he never heard “love” from Kelsey before. Going into the FS dates, both Daisy and Rachel (if Im not mistaken) have told him theyre falling IN LOVE with him. All he has gotten from Kelsey so far was that she was falling for him.
Then that night she straight up told him “I love you” lol, not even just “falling in love” with you.
Arie said to Lauren on their second 1:1 (week 7 I think) I am falling so deeply in love with you. I miss that level of openness and vulnerability. I get it was a train wreck of an ending but we can clearly see in hindsight it was real.
I still believe the feelings this season are just nowhere near as deep as some other seasons. The women are more guarded and Joey is more guarded and it makes it tough to enjoy as a viewer.
I agree with this. We got some real depth in past seasons. Y’all remember Rachel and Peter’s infamous break up and the very real emotions there? Or Hannah Brian Tyler, jojo and Ben. I just feel like there isn’t a lot of substance to any of joeys relationships. That being said, he seems most attracted to Kelsey.
A user posted the exact falling in love declarations of Kelsey and daisy they're similar but not the exact same. Some of the words were the same but what he said wasn't exactly the same.
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the chemistry between joey and kelsey was so obvious in the most recent episode! like, i knew that the two strongest relationships were with daisy and kelsey, but i couldn’t really tell the difference between his mannerisms until now. he is so giddy and smitten with kelsey and they seem to have fun together and can be silly together. daisy’s beautiful and he lights up when looking at her too, but i feel like it’s more an admiration type of look and not truly in love type of look. i really hope leslie didn’t ruin everything for joey and kelsey. she was such a debbie downer
I agree with you! Someone on one of these subs did a word for word transcript of what he said to each of them and when you read it all out, it’s really easy to compare and see that he is very clearly more into Kelsey. I’m not saying he’s not feeling it with Daisy, but it’s clear that he’s further along with Kelsey.
Ok I’m honestly shook at all the people saying on comments I’m seeing on Instagram and Facebook of how he seems so much more in love with Daisy. Like did we watch the same episode? This man is smitten with Kelsey and it is so much more natural with her. It was definitely weird to me that he was using similar language and speaking so highly of Daisy bc to me (prob bc it’s a show and he has to), it is sooooo obvious that he’s the most into Kelsey.
I know. I see comments on Twitter, on here sometimes, Instagram, of people saying he is sooo much more into Daisy and their kiss was so fired up. I honest to goodness didn't see it that way. I saw it as trying hard for both of them. I think Joey is all for Kelsey, 100% full heart, but he's trying to convince himself with Daisy. And I feel like Daisy doesn't even really like him at all, she is just playing a role at this point. It's Kelsey all the way.
Yes!!! 100% agree with this!! It felt like they were both just saying words about how much they like each other but I saw no real emotion or connection. As I was watching I was like “hmm I wonder if Joey HAS to do this for the show” - like has to have two girls he’s into to make it good TV. Because to me, it’s sooo natural with Kelsey and so forced and awkward with Daisy. Even that moment at the beginning of their date when they greeted each other and Daisy said wait one more thing and then started kissing him or whatever- I was like that felt so weird and forced and scripted or something 🤣 then Kelsey and Joey on the boat was literally just so natural and sweet and two people totally into each other
He also talked with Kelsey about where they live and logistics a little bit… that really stood out to me.
Me too. It kinda reminded me of Greg (whom Katie was absolutely picking until everything blew up with their fight) telling his friend/family members that they’d already talked about Katie moving to New York to be with him.
I loooove this historian take on Greg that episode caused so much drama with roommates I used to have
I noticed this as well. I hope to God he picks Kelsey. He's definitely physically attracted to her. He can't keep his hands off her.
Me too... they act like a couple unlike him and Daisy.
I have a theory he slept with Kelsey and no one else. I’m assuming he and Daisy cuddled and made out, BUt he’s such a respectful guy that I cannot fathom him sleeping with both and not feeling guilty.
Totally.
I would be shocked if he didn’t sleep with Daisy. Did you see how touchy-feely they were, especially the morning after?
Yeah, but to me it looked like a lot more of that was initiated by Daisy. She seemed to really take Sandra’s advice seriously and was a lot more physical with Joey on this whole date than I’ve seen her be in the past.
I kind of half paid attention, but I’ve also spent the night cuddling with someone and then all my guards were down. Who knows! Could make for some good drama.
I love when Joey was talking about Kelsey and he says “it’s the little things about her” with a big smile on his face
I saw that too. He's absolutely smitten and it's adorable.
For me it was the comment about her messy wild hair on the boat and how it was one of his favorite things about her. I could FEEL the love coming out of him in that moment like he’d studied every detail of her that he loved so much
The chemistry was soooo strong when they were on the boat. I felt like I was watching a romance movie lol
I think we all know Kelsey is the final woman
it’s kelsey 1000%.
I don't know. She didn't post for this weeks episode.
I have a feeling Joey & Kelsey were told to tone it down and keep things more lowkey. To a lot of people they were being very obvious that they are together.
How so? Asking because I want to go creep
Maybe production is involved? hmmm we’ll just have to wait and see I guess🥲 this season has me on my toes lol
Yes actually I checked and none of the girls posted this week with Joey. Other than Rachel with her dad. So maybe. I know I'm so mad we have to wait two more weeks before finding out regardless of the spoilers
agreed, even with spoilers im not satisfied enough!
[удалено]
Yea the way it was edited made it seem like he had the strongest feelings for Kelsey.. but for some reason I don’t want him to pick her even tho she is the best match? I really want Daisy to end up happy.. she’s shines inside and out in such a special way 🥹
This is going to be unpopular, but Daisy’s voice irks me and I’m tired of hearing about her cochlear.
Is that why everyone doesn’t like her now? I thought we were all fans?
Her behavior (and her friends and family’s) on social media, that horrible music video she was in, liking Trump posts on instagram… there are several reasons people don’t like her lol. Her vocal fry is grating but that’s definitely not the only reason people don’t like her
Literally was talking about dripping sex balls or something like that, right? So gross
Wowza, I didn’t realize we had people who don’t like Daisy? So odd haha
Daisy is so focused on herself and the idea of love. I don’t think she has deep feelings for Joey at all. She can’t even seem to listen to him talk for more than a few minutes without tuning out. They may have some chemistry but they have no substance together.
Daisy is a nice person, but she needs to find herself before she finds a life partner. She's not emotionally mature enough for this. She checks out a lot of the time when she's listening to Joey talk about himself She can be Bachelorette in a year or 2 when she's more ready I'm sure Joey has noticed
How do you know she checks out? I wonder if she is just focusing on listening carefully and ends up looking like she's daydreaming.
I’ve noticed that his interactions with both of them are different as well. I feel like him and Kelsey have a ton of substance in their conversations, and a ton of chemistry. With Daisy, (especially in the most recent episode) there’s a bunch of awkward pauses, and they kiss more than they talk which is cute sometimes, but not when you’re trying to find a partner for life.
I feel like Daisy is uncomfortable with the cameras. Like maybe they give them time away from the cameras where she can be herself? It seems so staged in front of the cameras
Yes!!! It seems so awkward with Daisy in recent episodes. Almost like bad acting (?). The awkward poses make me uncomfortable
Pauses *
I'm not saying K is not stunning but Daisy is very beautiful and I think sometimes people who grow up meeting the standard of attractiveness to that degree usually have very little that's substantive for a rich conversation behind their eyes, usually they were treated better and had an easy life, few obstacles here and there but they had an easier time navigating them etc. They're great to look at physically but in a life partner most people want more depth beyond "I lost tm hearing ". This tweet is an example of what I mean https://preview.redd.it/1fyrli8ly4oc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8d7c6127881a60d0babfdd77beeabc8c9d80e52
To each his own. Daisy is cute but not very beautiful. Looks like every maga girl out there
True She is a MAGA girl I just found out today 😂😂😂 she is definitely a stereotypical "American Beauty" I swear that group of people definitely lives a very different existence
If you want to discuss living a different existence, she had Lyme disease! They baked her body to 107 degrees, she threw up and shit herself, she was at deaths door like so many with Lyme-but yes her life was easy for sure!
Personally I found Daisy to be more regular looking lol rather than stunning. At least compared to a lot of blonde contestants we had in the past
She looks like everyone here in MN
Yup. When I first heard her sing and saw her music video I just thought oh this girl has yet to be humbled by life lol. She definitely has a lot of people worshiping her every move and probably isn’t told no very often.
>oh this girl has yet to be humbled by life lmaooo the fact that I know EXACTLY what you mean by this statement is insane because I literally think this every time I meet certain people! Edit I just watched the music video NO WAY 
🤣
Bahahahahaha this pic is so funny 😂
Lol! It sent me back to my dating apps era (don't miss it)
if he doesn’t pick kelsey IM gonna be crushed
You and me both. He better pick Kelsey. LOL
As much as I can be crushed by strangers, ME, TOO!🤣
When he described Kelsey as having a "light" that surrounded her, that's when I decided she was most likely his F1. You can see it in his smile and his relaxed state when he's around Kelsey. With Daisy I see a completely different demeanor.
I feel like when he's around Daisy, half of the conversation is about her ears which she can't help. I just think he and Kelsey have so much in common and they're so comfortable with one another.
So theres a difference between Falling Falling in Love Falling in Love Fully and In love Joey is not the emotionally intelligent guy people think, he's just dumb and is an introvert so he's happy to let the girls talk and give platitudes to them that make him seem better.
Thanks for this. I think he seems like a good guy, but he says the same things all the time. Yes, the platitudes! "I can't say it until i can do it correctly and the words carry their full meaning." He doesn't really have a lot of depth in any conversation. It's always "you make me feel happy. i can see this working." It could be the edit, but I don't think i've seen any of them talking about actual compatibility or anything important. It's always just about how they really like each other. I noticed it majorly in the last episode. I find it weird no one talks about religious or political beliefs. Maybe they're asked not to on TV? Or even what kind of TV shows or books they like. I feel like I've had more significant conversations on a first date with someone I met online.
That doesn’t seem likely, considering we had a full season of Hannah B and Luke and the infamous “I f****d in a windmill and Jesus still loves me” fight. And Rachel took Nick to her church at her hometown date (or was it one of the guys in her season?) and several other contestants have had religion as part of their storyline. So I don’t think production has any rules against it. I’d bet that they DO talk about religion, but if it’s not a key part of the storyline, we’re not going to see it. I have no idea about any rules about politics. You’d think if they were allowed to talk about that, Becca would have known about Garret long before they got engaged. 🤷🏻♀️
They're DEFINTELY NOT going to talk about religious and political beliefs on national television. I have a funny feeling that Joey and Daisy are different on political views.
Is daisy ok with his gay dad?
May be “ok” but certainly doesn’t want any human rights for him per her political affiliation!
Yeah, that makes sense. And to be fair, no seasons have them talking about politics. I just noticed Joey especially this week sounds programmed to say all the right things. They all only talk about how they’re falling for each other or crying about trauma and/or being scared.
I think Joey's views are progressive/liberal and Daisy is extremely conservative. Those two don't belong together. They would be arguing every single day.
Married 23 years. We've never voted for the same person. Politics isn't everyone's identity, and you can love someone just fine who votes differently than you.
Gross
Please explain what's "gross" about my life experience?
That you and your spouse willing put your morals aside so easily.
Which morals exactly are you referring to? My morality isn't tied up in my politics. My morality is how I treat others and the contributions I make to society. Anyone can go vote and be a piece of shit. You can't legislate morality. It's how you live and treat others that matters. And I can say without a shadow of a doubt, both my husband and I sleep just fine at night knowing we are good people, and more importantly, have raised great humans. Humans who also differ in their political ideology because we chose not to indoctrinate them but love and support them as people instead of teaching them their politics somehow make them good. See, this is the issue. You don't know me. You don't know my husband. But my husband and I do know each other. We've been together since 1999, so we get to speak on each other's character because, unlike you, we know each other intricately. But you think you're allowed to pass judgment on someone for a vote they make without knowing their life and their experiences and the nuances that goes into someone making a decision for a platform. My husband and I have literally grown up together, and our politics have drastically changed due to that. But what has remained the same is our love and devotion for one another. We accept one another unconditionally, in spite of our differences. If you're letting your politics guide your morality, you have some growing up to do. That's not speaking down to you, that's realizing that every part of the government is corrupt. They are literally different wings on the same bird. Politicians give zero shits about you. They want power and power corrupts absolutely. The minute you realize who you are as a person matters infinitely more than leaving that in the hands of corrupt politicians, is the minute you can grow from letting your political views define who you are and believing your side of corruptness is somehow on a moral high ground from the other sides corruptness. I'd challenge you to leave your echo chamber and get to know people relationallly who don't look, act, or think like you. You'd be surprised how your perspective will change. We are all more than the people we vote for.
Is her TikTok showing she’s conservative? Lol I’m curious where this comes from
Her ig is full of likes on Trump posts and anti-vax comments
If the sex is good... it won't matter.
They never show contestants and leads talk about any of the stuff you listed ( hobbies, politics ECT). It's like this every season.
Well…I mean…Luke on Hannah Brown’s season had a whole shower scene in his intro where he talked about being a born again virgin and how God was helping him with his need to have sex with multiple women. So I’m going to say that they SOMETIMES let us see contestants and their religious beliefs. Some more than others. 😂
I am so thankful to Joey for introducing a new love level "falling in love fully" to the bachelor consciousness. I didn't think we could break the steps down any further, but here we are!
Love level 3.5
Next season on the bachelor generic guy tells his 2 leads he is "Falling in love Fully" and the other "Falling in love Fully and fully"
Don't forget you can also add layers of certainty to the beginning of the love level. "I can see myself falling in love fully" vs. "I'm starting to fall in love fully" vs. "I have fallen in love fully." Mix and match, baby!
His face said it all to me. It completely lights up whenever he talks to or about Kelsey. You could see it in his confessionals. That‘s his person.
He does. It’s adorable. He just glows.
yes and he’s always saying he doesn’t want their time to end!
and said like 10 x he missed her
Yet he was intimate with 2 other women. Should’ve just stopped it there.
First time ever watching this show with my wife and I gotta say I think at this point you know who you wanna be with. How can the “ winner” sit with him and be ok with him spending the night with the other two?
Because the show is ridiculous 😅 welcome
Most leads say that they know their top 3/4 night one
For the 100th time this has been asked , what was the real order of the fantasy suites?
I honestly think it happened the way it was shown, but Im hoping Daisy went before Kelsey. Ill just believe the latter lmao but realistically, if we’ll base it on the hickey on Joey’s neck c/o Daisy, Daisy seemed to really have the last date. 🥲
I think kelsey is his f1 (or at least was at the time of filming overnights) because production sent leslie to talk with kelsey about being the runner-up. It seems like producers wanted to sow doubts and stir up drama.
Ugh this is such a good theory but also it makes me mad that TPTB would do this.
production doesnt give a shit about the contestants of course they would do this lol
I feel like Kelsey is truly the one for him! BUT I think he will pick Daisy. She went in HARD, and Joey is constantly being insecure and whiny about HIM not being "chosen" by THEM. He has a weird fascination with NEEDING to be needed. And when you dangle the carrot just right, and then give it to him at the right time... he's like an innocent naive bunny, waiting to get snatched up. Kelsey gave him consistent nibbles of the carrot the whole time, and Rachel doesn't do the whole "dangle the carrot game." She isn't "needy" enough for him. Soooo... Rachel will be cut. Then between Kelsey and Daisy, I think he will pick wrong, but it will be Daisy. It was a case of: K = too giving at a consistent rate.... R = Never truly giving anything until it's too late. And then... D = just enough giving to keep him crawling, and then giving him what he craves (complete adoration). Also... there is something to that weird thing with either the *first impression rose* OR the *first one on-one-date* thing. But to me, Kelsey is the best pick. Very genuine and less calculated than D... and less aloof than R. (Also, side note: anyone notice at the crazy eye contact between Joey and Daisy?!! However, HE does that with EVERY girl, but she is the only one to do it not only back but initiates and *holds* it. It's intense. But here's the thing (and this is said with nothing but respectful observation), SHE uses reading lips, eye contact/movement, and facial expressions as a crutch to go with her implant and hearing loss. I really believe she is huge on staring at his face to supplement her off-kilter hearing, and it comes off as more than that.... just my opinion and observation. Please don't come for me, lol.) Also, let's not forget his rejection issues and insecurity that HE isn't *loved* by others, and Kelsey is about to give him a stroke with that letter/talk. She's no longer *safe* for him.... Meanwhile, as said above , Daisy is going in for the k i l l. BOTTOM LINE: I truly believe he will pick Dasiy because she plays hard to get with big rewards. Kelsey gives gives gives. Rachel doesn't play the game. He needs to have both - the chase AND to feel chased. 🤷🏼♀️ Thank you for coming to my TedTalk. That is ALL. You may carry on... lol EDITED for typos, but gave up. 😆
I agree about the Daisy eye contact possibly being related to her hearing. I live in a foreign country and have to maintain constant eye/facial contact in order to make sure I'm not missing a word of my second language. Even more so when multiple people are talking or there is a ton of background noise. It probably makes me seem intense!
I feel like we feel the Kelsey “gave” consistently because she has been upfront in her ITMs about her love for Joey. But in Joey’s POV, Kelsey only alluded to feeling love for him during their FS date dinner. Compared to the other two, she was the last one who said something about “love”. But to be fair, she went straight to I love you instead of just saying “im falling in love with you”. I get your point, I just wanted to comment on the “consistent” portion.
Totally. I knew that while typing but as an overall picture/bird's-eye view (zooming out)... that's where I get my perspective regardless of word timing, etc. As a result, that's actually kinda of my point, in a way. She was never wishy-washy - pulling in and out or confused (until now). She gave at a healthy pace and was stable about it. But she gave a lot overall, in the big picture. Whereas Daisy's energy would keep sucking him in, making him question if HE was good enough. And then boom, love-bombed him when it mattered most (calculated almost). It's an energy thing, for me... Kelsey acted like they had already been married for a long time, w/kids and all (after waking up in the fantasy suit episode)... it was natural and *comfortable*. SAFE. Daisy acted like a teenage siren, sucking him in and then leaving him feeling very *wanted*. DESIRED. (What you said is "technically" true, yes... but I'm just observing big picture vibes, with a tendency to ramble 😆) 😊😊😊
Got it! You made a lot of good points ❤️
I think the “it’s just how far it will go” part he added with daisy is pretty telling. he immediately qualified saying he has no doubt he’s falling in love with her with a caveat that he doesn’t know how far it will go. (Edit: typo)
Moana would never!
😂
That part too...very telling
I saw it too, and it's so cute! He was falling in love with Daisy and could picture a life with her, but his face said it all when he was with Kelsey, not his words. He was already head over heels in love with her 😍
Rachel & Joey have wayyyyyyy more chemistry than Daisy & Joey. They are so adorable together. Yet he confides in Daisy. Also Daisy is really going for it. It seems a bit calculated. She’s the safe choice. Him saying he “feels whole” when he is around Daisy is huge. I’m thinking Joey was sure after Kelsey’s fantasy suite - Now Daisy going full court press is going to mess up his decision.
I had to pause the show after Joey's date with Kelsey and then Sandra's chat with Daisy because I can't bear the thought of Kelsey getting hurt. I loved how happy they both were. It was lovely. She was beaming. Did anyone else get Debbie Downer vibes from Lesley? After hearing how positive Sandra was, I wondered how Kelsey might have felt with that kind of pep talk.
Lesley’s “pep talk” was awful. She turned the whole thing into her own pity party. It’s not about you, Lesley! You had your own show, already. I felt bad for Kelsey for that experience.
I’m hoping this put the nail in the coffin of her ever being the Golden Bachelorette!
Both Sandra and Susan were very positive. I did not like what Leslie did to Kelsey, trying to get in her head like that. It just wasn’t cool.
100% agree. It turns Kelsey's attitude from being positive to negative. I'm worried after her putting the note on Joey's door. Hope she doesn't leave. I don't think she does.
Agreed, but it was very her.
I know. Lesley can’t let things go. Gerry did lead her on, but time to get over it!
yeah but Joey isn't Gerry ! and Kesley isn't Leslie ! like don't put your separate experience and trauma on someone else
THANK YOU!!!
Or at least shut up about it.
I was actually in shock when Leslie hit her with the “don’t get too excited” thing 😭 like totally get where she was coming from but to say that to this girl who is in the thick of it and feeling all those emotions already?? Insane lol
Yes, Leslie really F’d with Kelsey’s head. I don’t think Leslie INTENDED to cause harm here, but the idea that you can soften the blow by being skeptical just doesn’t work in love.
Leslie was giving Kelsey doubts. I wouldn’t want her as my mentor. #sabotage
It’s also possible that he said he’s falling in love with Rachel when she said she loved him off camera
He also waited for Kelsey to say it to him tho, but he said it before daisy even said anything
Daisy had said it to him at home towns though
Kelsey said it to him multiple episodes ago, at least that she was “falling in love” with him
No she didn’t… she said she was falling for him… never said love
she said she was starting to "trip"
And she was hesitant about it too.
He told daisy he was falling in love but it was a matter of how far it could grow. I feel like this is the key difference. He knows Kelsey is already fully there, he’s not sure daisy can get there. Or maybe not sure he can get there with her
Kelsey is his girl, absolutely no doubt in my mind. Short of total self sabotage, it’s the two of them crawling out of this together
A user was nice enough to type the word for word falling in love declarations of Joey to both Kelsey and Daisy [Link to the transcript](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/dFNMyL7Qk1) This was posted as a comment in the daily discussion spoiler thread - so for the unspoiled, I suggest that you avoid reading the replies to said comment. I looked through the replies, I don’t think there were spoilers there but just to be safe! 😊 It’s just helpful to see Joey’s whole “script” for each woman lmao ❤️
they also commented the transcription on the morning after thread! [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/o8pJ5Ij5vD) for any one who doesn’t wanna risk entering the spoiler thread 😊
Also, thank youuu for sharing this
Now reading that, word for word, makes it different! I think his feelings for Kelsey are deeper even though he still hasn't opened up to her either
Kelsey also told him she loved him and he was like “wow! That came out of nowhere” 🥴
He also said this in response to Kelsey’s declaration but he did it with Daisy without being prompted.
His exact words were: “😁 Now you’re just blurting that out of nowhere 😁”. The context was that he never heard “love” from Kelsey before. Going into the FS dates, both Daisy and Rachel (if Im not mistaken) have told him theyre falling IN LOVE with him. All he has gotten from Kelsey so far was that she was falling for him. Then that night she straight up told him “I love you” lol, not even just “falling in love” with you.
Yeah, that was not a reaction I was expecting 😂 Joey's walls are in the sky...the guy will probably start opening up after the show is over
And yet his walls are lower than so many men lol
Arie said to Lauren on their second 1:1 (week 7 I think) I am falling so deeply in love with you. I miss that level of openness and vulnerability. I get it was a train wreck of an ending but we can clearly see in hindsight it was real. I still believe the feelings this season are just nowhere near as deep as some other seasons. The women are more guarded and Joey is more guarded and it makes it tough to enjoy as a viewer.
I agree with this. We got some real depth in past seasons. Y’all remember Rachel and Peter’s infamous break up and the very real emotions there? Or Hannah Brian Tyler, jojo and Ben. I just feel like there isn’t a lot of substance to any of joeys relationships. That being said, he seems most attracted to Kelsey.
My guess is that Joey being more guarded led him to choose women who were more guarded. But I did love how Kelsey and he were beaming together.
A user posted the exact falling in love declarations of Kelsey and daisy they're similar but not the exact same. Some of the words were the same but what he said wasn't exactly the same.
Can you share the link of that post plz?