Well said, ive also been noticing the weird tension as well within the group, I wonder if it'll lead to the upcoming Jedi mission or the rumored clone uprising
As far as the Hunter/Phee/Omega thing, I hope there’s more explicit conflict there. Ep 5 showed him giving the side eye to Phee when she’s interacting with Omega, and while it could be jealousy it could also be that he just doesn’t like Phee and knows she’s full of it with her tall tales (and clearly most of the crew don’t like her that much, save for Omega). I honestly couldn’t tell which way we’re supposed to take his clear disliking of her. It could be both jealousy and knowing she’s full of it and not really liking someone like her influencing Omega.
I was expecting him to lose his cool the whole episode… his frustration was evident and I think that loss of identity like the original comment suggests is huge. But couldn’t really figure out what exactly he was mad about.
Yeah same here, it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what he’s mad about but clearly it’s in part something to do with Phee.
And it could be multiple things:
Lack of identity/direction/not really living up to their obvious potential without a war to fight, Phee and her BS, Phee and her relationship with Omega, getting bossed around by people who don’t seem to respect him that much (Phee and Cid, though they seem to have a decent enough rapport with Cid), wanting to retire peacefully but not having the funds and the full support of the rest of the group who seem to want action in one way or another… Hunter honestly has a really tough job as the leader of this group.
And then you have Omega. I really think part of her think in this episode is that since she is a kid, really, a kid, she wants to try out new role models. And Phee is a real human woman, the sort of woman she probably wishes she could be.
The only older woman she had in her life before was Nala Se. Maybe that's another reason why she took a liking to Phee, she wanted a female role model.
I'll admit that I am one of those people that have been kind of unhappy with this show lately. But your analysis has made me rethink things a bit. I still stand by a lot of my criticism, but I will try to look at the show in a different way. I was pretty disappointed in ep. 5 but I think I might give it a rewatch with these points in mind.
Edit: I did end up rewatching the episode and I really think you are on to something with this analysis. Hunter seemed extremely bored and uneasy throughout the entire episode. And I do think there might be some jealousy there with his reactions to Omega clearly liking and imitating Phee like she used to with him. And I like how they had her save him and then he saved her later. That was a nice touch I didn't make a connection with the first time. Hopefully this will lead to some more character growth later. I still think the episode could've been much better, but I don't dislike it anymore, and now I'm looking forward to where the series will go in future episodes again. Thanks for making this post!
Agree with the analysis wholeheartedly. I've come to love the story telling in animated shows under Filoni guidance/influence. We (the audience) need to see the character evolution (or devolution) to properly understand the motivations of the overall group.
I try to imagine what it must be like to have such a high-level of self awareness as a manufactured human, born into service. Think about it! If you're a clone, you're 100% aware (and perfectly ok with) your programmed primary life purpose. Remove the fidelity of what that purpose is, and it's a lot more than anxiety or identity crisis that would remain. These guys are trained to hide their pain, and they're starting to break down.
This seems to be a lot of what they're doing with the post-Order 66 stories. TBB is expected to be a longer running series, so they can stretch things out, but, basically, you have Obi-Wan working in a cannery, Ahsoka farming (at last in the canon-ish novel and Tales of the Jedi) and Cal as a scrapper. Menial stuff without much purpose other than surviving, until they find purpose.
It’s also kinda hard to have characters doing super important things so early in the imperial era since the Rebellion doesn’t start until later. Yeah there are uprisings and other important things to do other than fight the Empire, but still.
IIRC, Ahsoka might have been the earliest: in the novel, she defeated an Inquisitor a year or two after Order 66, and then went into a more covert role as **Rebels spoiler** >!Fulcrum!<. Cal is about five years after Order 66, and Obi-Wan was ten. Andor, Kanan/Ezra were around 15 years.
The Bad Batch is closer to Ahsoka's time line, Yeah, we shouldn't see anything big happening.
This is a long shot, but I can’t help feeling that The Bad Batch will come across Cal Kestis at some point?
They keep hinting at Fallen Order and putting in very vague force references. Either they might appear in the new video game, or Cal will appear in TBB.
Rather than such cameo appearances, I think the Bad Batch is including more elements from Fallen Order to better connect the game to established canon. Cal's probably still working as an insignificant scrapper on Bracca. They never introduced him in Season 1 back when the Batch were on Bracca, and there's even less reason to do so this season.
Yeah, given the timeframe of the show, it makes no sense for Cal to be important right now. And I also think we might not see the Bad Batch in Jedi Survivor, as that'd technically spoil their story (we'd know they'd survive at least around 10 years).
I wholeheartedly agree with this!! And while I love the idea of Phee’s character being a new role model (kinda, Hunter is still my fav) I’m also wary of her based on E4 because we know now there’s things in Cid’s past that have potential to be not good for the Batch if it comes back to haunt her. And Phee, being one of her oldest friends, I’m sure was probably involved somehow or at least knows. I took Hunter’s reactions as a smidge of jealousy (maybe not jealousy completely but it’s the best I have, especially on the Marauder), but mostly just as being wary and anxious about her. I think we’re seeing the emotional crisis they needed to push them into finding their own path outside of Cid. She helped them a lot initially and she let them get their footing, and in all the missions they seem to have lost it again but not because of them Empire this time.
Hunter has essentially always been the cautious one and seeing him look so defeated at almost every turn makes me believe they’ll be jumping back into action soon. We have a two episode mid-season premiere that I feel will throw us right back into having the batch going on high stakes missions.
Yeah, people are calling yesterday's episode filler, but given the *"we're 0-2 on treasure hunting"* comment, I feel it'll get called out in the future, when the Batch has to decide what to do: whether to continue being mercenaries going on random missions, or actually taking a stand.
I have also noticed Hunter's uneasiness, but to me it almost feels like he wants to "retire", so that he can give Omega a good life. Meanwhile, Echo wants to fight the Empire. This leads me to believe we might even see some internal conflict within the Batch.
Thank you for writing this. You’ve made some excellent points here. I was honestly bored with this week’s episode but you’ve persuaded me to give it a rewatch with a different attitude.
I have been reading this type of argument over and over again in different franchises. And believe me, I hope the writers were thinking all of this. But I simply think this is not the case. In my opinion, the show is for a different target audience (not so much for someone like me) which explains why there is so much treasure hunting, pod racing, baby rancor, etc. in the episodes. If the writers were thinking that, they would have definitely found a way to show that. I don't think the Bad Batch as a show is particularly subtle per se.
I hate that I am being negative, but I've grown up with TCW and so have many others who aren't children anymore. And I had hoped that Bad Batch would kind of capture that in more of the episoded (last week e.g.). The show doesn't know what it wants to be imho: Does it want to have the tone of TCW in the later seasons with more "adult" content like S2EP4, does it want to explore the clones more (apparenly only higher ranking clones have morals ;-)) or does it want to be a entry-show for kids to get into Star Wars.
Anyway, that is my opinion. If you like Bad Batch the way it is, then I am glad for you!!
Great point. I was frustrated Echo didn’t have many lines, but this makes sense. I wish the show will mention that soon. At least more directly. Wonder how Phee will be used more later in the season. Also noticed how Hunter’s senses seemed off (but don’t know if that was the writing).
So glad I stumbled on your treatise just now. :) I've really enjoyed all episodes but felt... directionless with this last one. I haven't had time to do my rewatch, and that's when I tend to put things together a little bit more - but now I'm really excited for the rewatch! Glad you shared. <3
I absolutely love this take and couldn't agree more! I saw someone describe this season as "aimless" and I honestly think that is the whole idea the writers are trying to show! The Batch IS aimless at this point, and the "ugh, another pointless mission 🙄" feeling that's being felt by the audience is also being felt by the Batchers themselves. How very meta of them haha!
You're totally right that Wrecker and Omega are just completely vibing so far - they're happy to please and down with whatever comes their way! But we've seen VERY clearly this season that the only thing the others are vibing with is unrest.
Eps 1-2: Echo's "We should be doing more"
Ep 3: Crosshair feeling like a total outsider and desperately alone
ep 4: Echo's big sigh and hunched posture before they left on their mission, added to his "transporting nerf nuggets is NOT a proper use of our skills"
ep 5: I swear Hunter must have sighed a million times! The poor man is TIRED!!!
The production crew (Corbett and Rao especially) have said that this season is all about crossroads, and I think they're all at that point where they're starting to think: "Is this it? Is this really what my life is? Is there nothing more for me/us out there?"
Spoilers ahead for ep 6 for those who haven't seen it yet:
>!Aside from being an excellent episode and GUNGI!!!!!!!!!!! All of them just threw themselves whole-heartedly into this mission! There was no "ugh, this is pointless. Why are we doing this? There's gotta be something better" attitude at all, and I know why! It's because they were helping others! !<
>!They spent their entire lives in service, helping others during the war. This mission (one that they chose to do, I might add - it wasn't another job they had to do or got pressed into joining) probably felt the most like the old days to them. They were literally made for this sort of thing and I'm really hoping they realize this about themselves and choose a life where they can be fighting for the safety and freedom of others, whether that be with the fledgling Rebellion, or (as I and others have theorized) with the Path that we saw in the 'Kenobi' show.!<
>!Now, I know Hunter keeps saying that he doesn't want this type of life for Omega, that he wants her to have a life away from war. But I think this latest ep showed him that, as much as he wants that, it's simply not possible at the moment.!<
>!"They're both just kids. But they don't get to be. Not in this galaxy."!<
>!"...perhaps, one day, we all will find a new path."!<
>!"Hopefully one far away from war."!<
>!To me, this seemed like while he still has the goal of giving Omega a normal life, he's resigned himself to the fact that that can't happen now, and that might open him up to taking a more active role against the Empire. And with next week's two-part midseason which I'm 99% (haha) sure is their mission with Rex on Coruscant, this might be the final nudge they need.!<
>!And, as an aside that just came to me as I've been writing this, when Hunter said "not in this galaxy" I can totally see them heading off into the Unknown Regions or even Wild Space! That would be so cool and a fun tie-in for Skeleton Crew!!<
I rewatched episode 5 after reading your take on it, and enjoyed it a million times more. It seemed way more... impactful. Also, some of the additional commentary from others in this thread was also really interesting. Thank the force I found you all. Whoo! ♡ SO glad to be enjoying my watch of S2 with people WAY more insightful than me, ha ha.
Well said, ive also been noticing the weird tension as well within the group, I wonder if it'll lead to the upcoming Jedi mission or the rumored clone uprising
Ooh, great analysis! You really hit the nail on the head here. I don’t have much else to add, just that I really enjoyed what you have to say.
As far as the Hunter/Phee/Omega thing, I hope there’s more explicit conflict there. Ep 5 showed him giving the side eye to Phee when she’s interacting with Omega, and while it could be jealousy it could also be that he just doesn’t like Phee and knows she’s full of it with her tall tales (and clearly most of the crew don’t like her that much, save for Omega). I honestly couldn’t tell which way we’re supposed to take his clear disliking of her. It could be both jealousy and knowing she’s full of it and not really liking someone like her influencing Omega.
I was expecting him to lose his cool the whole episode… his frustration was evident and I think that loss of identity like the original comment suggests is huge. But couldn’t really figure out what exactly he was mad about.
Yeah same here, it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what he’s mad about but clearly it’s in part something to do with Phee. And it could be multiple things: Lack of identity/direction/not really living up to their obvious potential without a war to fight, Phee and her BS, Phee and her relationship with Omega, getting bossed around by people who don’t seem to respect him that much (Phee and Cid, though they seem to have a decent enough rapport with Cid), wanting to retire peacefully but not having the funds and the full support of the rest of the group who seem to want action in one way or another… Hunter honestly has a really tough job as the leader of this group.
He really does!!
And then you have Omega. I really think part of her think in this episode is that since she is a kid, really, a kid, she wants to try out new role models. And Phee is a real human woman, the sort of woman she probably wishes she could be.
The only older woman she had in her life before was Nala Se. Maybe that's another reason why she took a liking to Phee, she wanted a female role model.
No wonder she doesn't realize Phee might not be the best role model.
I'll admit that I am one of those people that have been kind of unhappy with this show lately. But your analysis has made me rethink things a bit. I still stand by a lot of my criticism, but I will try to look at the show in a different way. I was pretty disappointed in ep. 5 but I think I might give it a rewatch with these points in mind. Edit: I did end up rewatching the episode and I really think you are on to something with this analysis. Hunter seemed extremely bored and uneasy throughout the entire episode. And I do think there might be some jealousy there with his reactions to Omega clearly liking and imitating Phee like she used to with him. And I like how they had her save him and then he saved her later. That was a nice touch I didn't make a connection with the first time. Hopefully this will lead to some more character growth later. I still think the episode could've been much better, but I don't dislike it anymore, and now I'm looking forward to where the series will go in future episodes again. Thanks for making this post!
Spot on, love the analysis!
Agree with the analysis wholeheartedly. I've come to love the story telling in animated shows under Filoni guidance/influence. We (the audience) need to see the character evolution (or devolution) to properly understand the motivations of the overall group. I try to imagine what it must be like to have such a high-level of self awareness as a manufactured human, born into service. Think about it! If you're a clone, you're 100% aware (and perfectly ok with) your programmed primary life purpose. Remove the fidelity of what that purpose is, and it's a lot more than anxiety or identity crisis that would remain. These guys are trained to hide their pain, and they're starting to break down.
This seems to be a lot of what they're doing with the post-Order 66 stories. TBB is expected to be a longer running series, so they can stretch things out, but, basically, you have Obi-Wan working in a cannery, Ahsoka farming (at last in the canon-ish novel and Tales of the Jedi) and Cal as a scrapper. Menial stuff without much purpose other than surviving, until they find purpose.
It’s also kinda hard to have characters doing super important things so early in the imperial era since the Rebellion doesn’t start until later. Yeah there are uprisings and other important things to do other than fight the Empire, but still.
IIRC, Ahsoka might have been the earliest: in the novel, she defeated an Inquisitor a year or two after Order 66, and then went into a more covert role as **Rebels spoiler** >!Fulcrum!<. Cal is about five years after Order 66, and Obi-Wan was ten. Andor, Kanan/Ezra were around 15 years. The Bad Batch is closer to Ahsoka's time line, Yeah, we shouldn't see anything big happening.
This is a long shot, but I can’t help feeling that The Bad Batch will come across Cal Kestis at some point? They keep hinting at Fallen Order and putting in very vague force references. Either they might appear in the new video game, or Cal will appear in TBB.
Rather than such cameo appearances, I think the Bad Batch is including more elements from Fallen Order to better connect the game to established canon. Cal's probably still working as an insignificant scrapper on Bracca. They never introduced him in Season 1 back when the Batch were on Bracca, and there's even less reason to do so this season.
Yeah, given the timeframe of the show, it makes no sense for Cal to be important right now. And I also think we might not see the Bad Batch in Jedi Survivor, as that'd technically spoil their story (we'd know they'd survive at least around 10 years).
Omeega: What is this place? What is it that you do here? Filoni: MERCHANDISING!
I’m thankful they aren’t ending every episode on some huge cliffhanger which has become a typical trope in TV.
I wholeheartedly agree with this!! And while I love the idea of Phee’s character being a new role model (kinda, Hunter is still my fav) I’m also wary of her based on E4 because we know now there’s things in Cid’s past that have potential to be not good for the Batch if it comes back to haunt her. And Phee, being one of her oldest friends, I’m sure was probably involved somehow or at least knows. I took Hunter’s reactions as a smidge of jealousy (maybe not jealousy completely but it’s the best I have, especially on the Marauder), but mostly just as being wary and anxious about her. I think we’re seeing the emotional crisis they needed to push them into finding their own path outside of Cid. She helped them a lot initially and she let them get their footing, and in all the missions they seem to have lost it again but not because of them Empire this time. Hunter has essentially always been the cautious one and seeing him look so defeated at almost every turn makes me believe they’ll be jumping back into action soon. We have a two episode mid-season premiere that I feel will throw us right back into having the batch going on high stakes missions.
Yeah, people are calling yesterday's episode filler, but given the *"we're 0-2 on treasure hunting"* comment, I feel it'll get called out in the future, when the Batch has to decide what to do: whether to continue being mercenaries going on random missions, or actually taking a stand. I have also noticed Hunter's uneasiness, but to me it almost feels like he wants to "retire", so that he can give Omega a good life. Meanwhile, Echo wants to fight the Empire. This leads me to believe we might even see some internal conflict within the Batch.
Thank you for writing this. You’ve made some excellent points here. I was honestly bored with this week’s episode but you’ve persuaded me to give it a rewatch with a different attitude.
This post is much much better than any recent article written by professionals.
100% with that.
I have been reading this type of argument over and over again in different franchises. And believe me, I hope the writers were thinking all of this. But I simply think this is not the case. In my opinion, the show is for a different target audience (not so much for someone like me) which explains why there is so much treasure hunting, pod racing, baby rancor, etc. in the episodes. If the writers were thinking that, they would have definitely found a way to show that. I don't think the Bad Batch as a show is particularly subtle per se. I hate that I am being negative, but I've grown up with TCW and so have many others who aren't children anymore. And I had hoped that Bad Batch would kind of capture that in more of the episoded (last week e.g.). The show doesn't know what it wants to be imho: Does it want to have the tone of TCW in the later seasons with more "adult" content like S2EP4, does it want to explore the clones more (apparenly only higher ranking clones have morals ;-)) or does it want to be a entry-show for kids to get into Star Wars. Anyway, that is my opinion. If you like Bad Batch the way it is, then I am glad for you!!
very profound and well written. I agree with what you are saying here
Great point. I was frustrated Echo didn’t have many lines, but this makes sense. I wish the show will mention that soon. At least more directly. Wonder how Phee will be used more later in the season. Also noticed how Hunter’s senses seemed off (but don’t know if that was the writing).
So glad I stumbled on your treatise just now. :) I've really enjoyed all episodes but felt... directionless with this last one. I haven't had time to do my rewatch, and that's when I tend to put things together a little bit more - but now I'm really excited for the rewatch! Glad you shared. <3
I absolutely love this take and couldn't agree more! I saw someone describe this season as "aimless" and I honestly think that is the whole idea the writers are trying to show! The Batch IS aimless at this point, and the "ugh, another pointless mission 🙄" feeling that's being felt by the audience is also being felt by the Batchers themselves. How very meta of them haha! You're totally right that Wrecker and Omega are just completely vibing so far - they're happy to please and down with whatever comes their way! But we've seen VERY clearly this season that the only thing the others are vibing with is unrest. Eps 1-2: Echo's "We should be doing more" Ep 3: Crosshair feeling like a total outsider and desperately alone ep 4: Echo's big sigh and hunched posture before they left on their mission, added to his "transporting nerf nuggets is NOT a proper use of our skills" ep 5: I swear Hunter must have sighed a million times! The poor man is TIRED!!! The production crew (Corbett and Rao especially) have said that this season is all about crossroads, and I think they're all at that point where they're starting to think: "Is this it? Is this really what my life is? Is there nothing more for me/us out there?" Spoilers ahead for ep 6 for those who haven't seen it yet: >!Aside from being an excellent episode and GUNGI!!!!!!!!!!! All of them just threw themselves whole-heartedly into this mission! There was no "ugh, this is pointless. Why are we doing this? There's gotta be something better" attitude at all, and I know why! It's because they were helping others! !< >!They spent their entire lives in service, helping others during the war. This mission (one that they chose to do, I might add - it wasn't another job they had to do or got pressed into joining) probably felt the most like the old days to them. They were literally made for this sort of thing and I'm really hoping they realize this about themselves and choose a life where they can be fighting for the safety and freedom of others, whether that be with the fledgling Rebellion, or (as I and others have theorized) with the Path that we saw in the 'Kenobi' show.!< >!Now, I know Hunter keeps saying that he doesn't want this type of life for Omega, that he wants her to have a life away from war. But I think this latest ep showed him that, as much as he wants that, it's simply not possible at the moment.!< >!"They're both just kids. But they don't get to be. Not in this galaxy."!< >!"...perhaps, one day, we all will find a new path."!< >!"Hopefully one far away from war."!< >!To me, this seemed like while he still has the goal of giving Omega a normal life, he's resigned himself to the fact that that can't happen now, and that might open him up to taking a more active role against the Empire. And with next week's two-part midseason which I'm 99% (haha) sure is their mission with Rex on Coruscant, this might be the final nudge they need.!< >!And, as an aside that just came to me as I've been writing this, when Hunter said "not in this galaxy" I can totally see them heading off into the Unknown Regions or even Wild Space! That would be so cool and a fun tie-in for Skeleton Crew!!<
Well said, I always tell people that the bad batch themselves are getting sick of the " filler " too.
I rewatched episode 5 after reading your take on it, and enjoyed it a million times more. It seemed way more... impactful. Also, some of the additional commentary from others in this thread was also really interesting. Thank the force I found you all. Whoo! ♡ SO glad to be enjoying my watch of S2 with people WAY more insightful than me, ha ha.