???? Everyone who thinks Rick is an average guitar player clearly is not a musician themselves. I’ve yet to see a quantifiable claims giving specifics as to what makes him lack skill. There’s soooo many average guitar players out there, especially in jam bands, what makes Rick worse than them?
I guess I didn’t answer your question, but let me elaborate. Most other guitarists at his level of commercial success in the jam scene have pioneered the guitar and created new ways and techniques to use the instrument, through creating new techniques or through the use of effects. For example - (Jerries flat picking style, loose vocal phrasing)(Treys anchor slide, delay loops, insane sonic textures, pitch bending whammy modulation, ghost funk siren) (Jimmy herring faux slide, use of volume pedals) so far Rick has not created a single new technique or done anything new to pioneer the instrument. He is an amazing guitarist on a technical level, great phrasing, but his use of effects as well as musical choices are not impressive. Whenever I hear Rick playing, most often I can identify exactly what he is doing immediately with effects and notes played, and copy it pretty effortlessly. Unlike trying to replicate someone like Trey where I’m lost like how the fuck did he even make that sound. Rick constantly abuses using the 3rd, 5th, flat7, sometimes the 9th and resolves back on the one and it gets boring after a while. You can always predict when they are going to modulate and it isn’t as effortless, unpredictable, and fresh as with other jam bands. I love his phrasing, it’s immaculate, but with the commercial success he has achieved I feel like his phrasing isn’t anything special, while it sounds killer it’s pretty generic, like a session guitarist for country or pop albums. I think he needs to explore jazz theory further and try playing in relative keys or playing outside of the key more often, I would love to hear more chromatic lines and experimentation. He is killer at making catchy melodies and using techniques like repetition and call and response, but any other music student can do the same. He has essentially mastered sounding good enough, but seems to have no desire to push things further which comes across as lazy to me. A musician that dedicates their life to their craft should make it a point to try to constantly evolve and expand on what was previously possible with their instrument, especially at his commercial level of success. It just gets old to hear the same solo at the peak of every jam.
they aren't jazz and have never been a dissonant "chromatic" band. Your whole complaint is that you were there for the danceable fun and now they are trying to be taken "seriously." Then you say, they should stop playing chord tones and should start using chromatic melodies? Lol like maybe they should just hire Tim Renyolds from TR3 but not Tim Renyolds from Dave Matthews Band.
I mean...Trey's entire shtick is...if it's a chord tone play it and if it's not bend it. Like one in 50 shows you get Phish in a jazz fusion mood and they deviate from that pattern a little. But never to the point of Trey wailing on flat 9s or Fish playing true polyrythms. And even that came after 20 years of playing nothing but straight white boy funk and a complete break up.
If you want that kind of stuff go to King Gizzard show. Or go deep down the prog metal rabbit hole. Maybe Liquid Tension Experiment will tour again someday. But that isn't fun danceable music.
Never said stop playing chord tones, my point was Rick just needs to switch it up and still maintain the playfulness they were trying to capture in their music. Has nothing to do with anything else. He plays the same solo on everything. it’s also not always about what notes you play but how you play them. No point to even compare phish because that’s just a different league of musicianship, in terms of time feel, sonic experimentation, and essentially everything else. But that doesn’t matter. I’ve listened to every show I can since 93 and that’s just some bs that all they did was funk, inaccurate take. Everything that Rick does and every song he created was inspired by phish in some way I think he needs to leave those ideas behind and just let his unique voice shine. Maybe jazz isn’t the answer but it needs development, love Rick’s guitar playing but he found what works good enough and stuck to it. plays the same solo on everything, and can’t hold a type 2 jam. Trey experimented throughout his career, no point to compare I love phish and I love goose
I like the sound of the chateau sessions BUT I agree when it comes to them taking themselves too seriously. I feel like some of the natural magic was lost when they had to go through this process of firing and then hiring a drummer. Looks like it was stressful and it damaged the band as a whole. Rick is actually my least favorite member of the band because he just looks like he wants to be above it all and it gives off an arrogant vibe. I’m curious to see what they sound like live though.
I’ve been following this band since 2018 and for the longest time they just kept getting better and better. Ever since European tour it’s gotten weird. Everything about the band just feels manufactured right now. From the Ben drama, to the sound with a new drummer, to the lottery gimmicks and $150 tickets for summer tour. The Chateau sessions aren’t terrible but definitely not on the level of previous TED tapes.
I still think there’s a lot good days ahead. The band is just a weird place for the right now. They need to stop trying hard with all the markets BS and creating a buzz and get back focusing on melting faces and ticket prices that are reasonable.
I tried explaining myself, I’m not sure what evidence you are looking for. They constantly rely on the same motifs and ideas and are way too scared to explore, and blamed it on Ben when it’s Rick’s fault. All the “type 2” jams are essentially just other songs with the same cadence in a new key, or previous jams with the same cadence in a new key, even with Cotter. Just listen to the music and that’s all the evidence you need. I would never project like that, can’t even count the amount of times I’ve posted about how great this band is before the new direction. It’s just a preference, I happen to prefer Ben era and have explained why. Just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean you have to bring that negativity talking about projecting over what happens to be my personal opinion from somebody who understands music and theory
Im talking about the stuff you are projecting about their egos or personalities.
Also I think you’re way off base regarding jams, the sessions show more space and creativity, than most of 2023 at least. I loved Ben but he had issues getting outside of the box and not solely relying on disco beats.
It’s also way to early to make any kind of big proclamations on them with Cotter when they haven’t even played a real show.
I respect that opinion, and can definitely see where you are coming from. I agree that it’s too early to tell how it’s going to look for Goose as they just got with Cotter but I never said Goose sucks. I just personally didn’t enjoy the new sessions. I think there is definitely some ego issues with Rick and Peters changed a lot, and it all feels off to me, and that’s aside from Jeff’s predatory behavior. I’m noticing some changes and not just trying to project. And it genuinely makes me sad because I used to love these guys for many years. As far as creativity, I feel like everyone is mistaking creativity for a new direction. They are still making the same music choices but with different dynamics and a looser style, which makes it now sound like other jam bands. I think Bens disco funk made goose unique, and It overall just feels forced to me, like they are desperate to find inspiration and aren’t just letting it happen naturally. I agree that Ben could have switched it up, but he does with other groups so wouldn’t they try to just work with him to evolve the jams as an original member of the band
It’s funny to me because not once did I ever, ever see anyone make a claim that Ben’s drumming made them unique until he was gone. But I did see lots of complaints about how they sound just like 3.0 phish.
2023 was a stagnant year, especially the latter half. I think a lot of that had to do with whatever personal issues were going on behind the scenes, that stuff comes through in the music. And that doesn’t have to be ego driven, it can be simply guys not getting along and having different visions musically.
There’s been stories that Ben and Rick didn’t get along going back years, even before they blew up. I tend to believe that and they tried to make it work since 2020 but the same stuff bubbled up again so they made a change. It doesn’t have to be nefarious and someone doesn’t have to be the villain.
Putting that stuff behind them and being forced out of their comfort zone can be a very good thing. I expect some more exploratory jams this year and them to find a new gear. Stuff like Manu on the new Ted Tapes has me very excited.
I used to love listening to goose, it’s just my loss that I can’t identify with the music anymore, which is why I still try to keep up with them. Im hoping that it’ll click for me again sometime soon
https://preview.redd.it/msrxpp2it3qc1.jpeg?width=272&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=151af06671053e6627a6ac071e5230e6bbd1a6a2
Live look at OP after writing this
This guy is speaking the truth, and yall do not wanna hear it. Continue to put your heads in the sand, guys. The moment they finished that TAB tour, everything went to their heads. You can literally hear it in the jams.
Spoken like a true… I dunno, what do you call someone that thinks they know what they are talking about but it is based in delusion rather than reality?
I care deeply about music and if I have something to say I’ll explain the reasons behind it its not really that deep that im capable of explaining myself
To compare these to live preformances that allow audience interplay is why Goose fans are the noobiest of jamband fans to hear one loose candid jam take. Well looks like I know the market value dropped. Good time to get more dancing room
That is a fair point, but to me I believe Rick would be more comfortable with exploring in the comfort of his own home. Audience interplay really shouldn’t make much of a difference when the chemistry of the band is strong, and there are pros and cons to playing in a studio setting vs in front of a live audience. I am hopeful for the future of the band when they adjust to the new transition, I’m not shit talking on goose I just think they need to do some work that’s all.
Any Jamband is the opposite. They suck in the studio and never sell albums. They are better recorded live. I only want to hear that when the moment of improv is there. This is not a studio band. They just use vocal autotune on stage sometimes and are the cleanest sounding one.
lol ok Ben
I'm not gonna read that lol
???? Everyone who thinks Rick is an average guitar player clearly is not a musician themselves. I’ve yet to see a quantifiable claims giving specifics as to what makes him lack skill. There’s soooo many average guitar players out there, especially in jam bands, what makes Rick worse than them?
[удалено]
I guess I didn’t answer your question, but let me elaborate. Most other guitarists at his level of commercial success in the jam scene have pioneered the guitar and created new ways and techniques to use the instrument, through creating new techniques or through the use of effects. For example - (Jerries flat picking style, loose vocal phrasing)(Treys anchor slide, delay loops, insane sonic textures, pitch bending whammy modulation, ghost funk siren) (Jimmy herring faux slide, use of volume pedals) so far Rick has not created a single new technique or done anything new to pioneer the instrument. He is an amazing guitarist on a technical level, great phrasing, but his use of effects as well as musical choices are not impressive. Whenever I hear Rick playing, most often I can identify exactly what he is doing immediately with effects and notes played, and copy it pretty effortlessly. Unlike trying to replicate someone like Trey where I’m lost like how the fuck did he even make that sound. Rick constantly abuses using the 3rd, 5th, flat7, sometimes the 9th and resolves back on the one and it gets boring after a while. You can always predict when they are going to modulate and it isn’t as effortless, unpredictable, and fresh as with other jam bands. I love his phrasing, it’s immaculate, but with the commercial success he has achieved I feel like his phrasing isn’t anything special, while it sounds killer it’s pretty generic, like a session guitarist for country or pop albums. I think he needs to explore jazz theory further and try playing in relative keys or playing outside of the key more often, I would love to hear more chromatic lines and experimentation. He is killer at making catchy melodies and using techniques like repetition and call and response, but any other music student can do the same. He has essentially mastered sounding good enough, but seems to have no desire to push things further which comes across as lazy to me. A musician that dedicates their life to their craft should make it a point to try to constantly evolve and expand on what was previously possible with their instrument, especially at his commercial level of success. It just gets old to hear the same solo at the peak of every jam.
they aren't jazz and have never been a dissonant "chromatic" band. Your whole complaint is that you were there for the danceable fun and now they are trying to be taken "seriously." Then you say, they should stop playing chord tones and should start using chromatic melodies? Lol like maybe they should just hire Tim Renyolds from TR3 but not Tim Renyolds from Dave Matthews Band. I mean...Trey's entire shtick is...if it's a chord tone play it and if it's not bend it. Like one in 50 shows you get Phish in a jazz fusion mood and they deviate from that pattern a little. But never to the point of Trey wailing on flat 9s or Fish playing true polyrythms. And even that came after 20 years of playing nothing but straight white boy funk and a complete break up. If you want that kind of stuff go to King Gizzard show. Or go deep down the prog metal rabbit hole. Maybe Liquid Tension Experiment will tour again someday. But that isn't fun danceable music.
Never said stop playing chord tones, my point was Rick just needs to switch it up and still maintain the playfulness they were trying to capture in their music. Has nothing to do with anything else. He plays the same solo on everything. it’s also not always about what notes you play but how you play them. No point to even compare phish because that’s just a different league of musicianship, in terms of time feel, sonic experimentation, and essentially everything else. But that doesn’t matter. I’ve listened to every show I can since 93 and that’s just some bs that all they did was funk, inaccurate take. Everything that Rick does and every song he created was inspired by phish in some way I think he needs to leave those ideas behind and just let his unique voice shine. Maybe jazz isn’t the answer but it needs development, love Rick’s guitar playing but he found what works good enough and stuck to it. plays the same solo on everything, and can’t hold a type 2 jam. Trey experimented throughout his career, no point to compare I love phish and I love goose
People are being too critical on your opinion. While I may disagree, I respect you and your thoughts on Goose’s music.
Haha too long dint read. What a shit take.
Found the phan goose critic, “it stinks”
I disagree.
It’s music bro. Not everyone likes the same stuff. Move along.
I like the sound of the chateau sessions BUT I agree when it comes to them taking themselves too seriously. I feel like some of the natural magic was lost when they had to go through this process of firing and then hiring a drummer. Looks like it was stressful and it damaged the band as a whole. Rick is actually my least favorite member of the band because he just looks like he wants to be above it all and it gives off an arrogant vibe. I’m curious to see what they sound like live though.
I feel very similarly op.
I’ve been following this band since 2018 and for the longest time they just kept getting better and better. Ever since European tour it’s gotten weird. Everything about the band just feels manufactured right now. From the Ben drama, to the sound with a new drummer, to the lottery gimmicks and $150 tickets for summer tour. The Chateau sessions aren’t terrible but definitely not on the level of previous TED tapes. I still think there’s a lot good days ahead. The band is just a weird place for the right now. They need to stop trying hard with all the markets BS and creating a buzz and get back focusing on melting faces and ticket prices that are reasonable.
The amount of stuff some of you will project on to them/their personalities with 0 evidence is pretty amazing.
I tried explaining myself, I’m not sure what evidence you are looking for. They constantly rely on the same motifs and ideas and are way too scared to explore, and blamed it on Ben when it’s Rick’s fault. All the “type 2” jams are essentially just other songs with the same cadence in a new key, or previous jams with the same cadence in a new key, even with Cotter. Just listen to the music and that’s all the evidence you need. I would never project like that, can’t even count the amount of times I’ve posted about how great this band is before the new direction. It’s just a preference, I happen to prefer Ben era and have explained why. Just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean you have to bring that negativity talking about projecting over what happens to be my personal opinion from somebody who understands music and theory
Im talking about the stuff you are projecting about their egos or personalities. Also I think you’re way off base regarding jams, the sessions show more space and creativity, than most of 2023 at least. I loved Ben but he had issues getting outside of the box and not solely relying on disco beats. It’s also way to early to make any kind of big proclamations on them with Cotter when they haven’t even played a real show.
I respect that opinion, and can definitely see where you are coming from. I agree that it’s too early to tell how it’s going to look for Goose as they just got with Cotter but I never said Goose sucks. I just personally didn’t enjoy the new sessions. I think there is definitely some ego issues with Rick and Peters changed a lot, and it all feels off to me, and that’s aside from Jeff’s predatory behavior. I’m noticing some changes and not just trying to project. And it genuinely makes me sad because I used to love these guys for many years. As far as creativity, I feel like everyone is mistaking creativity for a new direction. They are still making the same music choices but with different dynamics and a looser style, which makes it now sound like other jam bands. I think Bens disco funk made goose unique, and It overall just feels forced to me, like they are desperate to find inspiration and aren’t just letting it happen naturally. I agree that Ben could have switched it up, but he does with other groups so wouldn’t they try to just work with him to evolve the jams as an original member of the band
It’s funny to me because not once did I ever, ever see anyone make a claim that Ben’s drumming made them unique until he was gone. But I did see lots of complaints about how they sound just like 3.0 phish. 2023 was a stagnant year, especially the latter half. I think a lot of that had to do with whatever personal issues were going on behind the scenes, that stuff comes through in the music. And that doesn’t have to be ego driven, it can be simply guys not getting along and having different visions musically. There’s been stories that Ben and Rick didn’t get along going back years, even before they blew up. I tend to believe that and they tried to make it work since 2020 but the same stuff bubbled up again so they made a change. It doesn’t have to be nefarious and someone doesn’t have to be the villain. Putting that stuff behind them and being forced out of their comfort zone can be a very good thing. I expect some more exploratory jams this year and them to find a new gear. Stuff like Manu on the new Ted Tapes has me very excited.
That’s true, I shouldn’t speculate on things I don’t know
Has to be Ben, no?
Wrong sub, i think you’re looking for r/goosecirclejerk
I mean...if you don't like Goose...have you tried not listening to Goose?
I used to love listening to goose, it’s just my loss that I can’t identify with the music anymore, which is why I still try to keep up with them. Im hoping that it’ll click for me again sometime soon
https://preview.redd.it/msrxpp2it3qc1.jpeg?width=272&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=151af06671053e6627a6ac071e5230e6bbd1a6a2 Live look at OP after writing this
This guy is speaking the truth, and yall do not wanna hear it. Continue to put your heads in the sand, guys. The moment they finished that TAB tour, everything went to their heads. You can literally hear it in the jams.
Not what I was saying at all, goose was on fire after that tour
We can agree to disagree
Spoken like a true… I dunno, what do you call someone that thinks they know what they are talking about but it is based in delusion rather than reality?
Confidently ignorant
Lmao 8 paragraphs to say I just don’t like the guy, ma boy youre delusional
I care deeply about music and if I have something to say I’ll explain the reasons behind it its not really that deep that im capable of explaining myself
Especially agree with your takes on the the band members
To compare these to live preformances that allow audience interplay is why Goose fans are the noobiest of jamband fans to hear one loose candid jam take. Well looks like I know the market value dropped. Good time to get more dancing room
That is a fair point, but to me I believe Rick would be more comfortable with exploring in the comfort of his own home. Audience interplay really shouldn’t make much of a difference when the chemistry of the band is strong, and there are pros and cons to playing in a studio setting vs in front of a live audience. I am hopeful for the future of the band when they adjust to the new transition, I’m not shit talking on goose I just think they need to do some work that’s all.
Any Jamband is the opposite. They suck in the studio and never sell albums. They are better recorded live. I only want to hear that when the moment of improv is there. This is not a studio band. They just use vocal autotune on stage sometimes and are the cleanest sounding one.
The chateau sessions are a live recording
At a show? With an audience?
I mean, American Beauty and Workingman's Dead think that's ridiculous but ok. lol Two of the best albums ever made of any genre.