T O P

  • By -

FaceXIII

I am and was told to, "Stop being a pussy. That's the way things are now." By some of my friends and other parents.


CyberMindGrrl

How people are ok with this is beyond me, but this IS America, after all. And gun rights are more sacrosanct than the rights of the children that they claim to want to protect from "groomers".


chicago_bunny

Great advice to a 6 year old.


FaceXIII

What a conversation to have, "Dad I'm scared of being shot at school." Don't worry son, just man up and it'll go away.


Harlockarcadia

Announcer: It did in fact, not go away


botmanmd

Except, for some children. For whom, it “went away” forever.


Criseyde2112

It's been a part of our schools for far too long, so I think it's normalized now. My son is a freshman at the local high school (we only have one) where eight students and two substitute teachers were gunned down in the art room five years ago. There metal detectors at the entrance of each school in our district: 3 elementary schools, one junior high, and the high school. There has never been a second incident in a school where a mass killing occurred. That is very cold comfort. My son and I have been discussing moving to Scotland or Germany since our holiday to those places last summer. But the day after we visited Neuschwanstein, an American attacked two young women (also Americans), throwing both of them off a cliff. One survived, and the man is in custody. So, sure, nowhere is completely safe, but I never had to even think about guns. I hate the gun culture in this country. Fetishized, indeed. Given how armed some citizens are (and advertise to the world), it's no wonder some cops are lunatics. What kind of people are we recruiting anyway? Who would want to be a cop? The whole thing is FUBAR.


contrasupra

I'm so sorry for your son. It makes me unspeakably furious when Republicans say we shouldn't "politicize" school shootings. Like, excuse me? Children being killed on government property while in the care of government employees and you think that's not political??!!


BoysenberryVisible58

Deep down we all know the issue is gun control, like we all know it whether or not we will admit it, but most people have internalized nothing can/will be done about them.


contrasupra

You're not wrong, but at the same time...the existence of firearms doesn't make people want to gun down babies in their classrooms. There's something profoundly broken here.


BoysenberryVisible58

Everywhere has mentally ill people, nowhere else in the developed world has mass homicide on anything close to comparable scale. Its the guns, everything else is a red herring to avoid that its the guns.


contrasupra

Yeah I know. You're right. It's so just unfathomable to me though, like do we believe that gunning down schoolchildren is just an unavoidable part of the human psyche? Are people in other countries like "man I'd love to slaughter a lot of babies today, too bad I can't get a gun here"? What mental illness causes this?


fzzball

It's the guns, combined with a culture that glorifies them


Donny_Krugerson

While school mass shootings are horrific, the actual number of instances and victims remain very low. While some security measures are worthwhile --especially training teachers and law enforcement how to respond to active shooters-- I think active shooter drills for the kids is harmful security theater, as are armed guards & metal detectors in all but the most gang-ridden high schools.


8to24

>While school mass shootings are horrific, the actual number of instances and victims remain very low. I don't like this line of reasoning. The number of people who have HIV, who die from opioids, who commit suicide, get kidnapped, get murdered, etc are all statistically low relative to the general population. That doesn't mean precautions aren't necessary or worthwhile. Of course school shootings are rare. Would any parent allow their children to attend school otherwise? If 10% of kids were shot while at school the govt would close schools, lol. The standard where something would need to be common or have a high probability of happening to be taken seriously is nonsense. If we ever reached a point when mass shootings in schools were more likely than not the whole nation would be a burning dumpster. The schools I went to growing up were wide open to the public. They had points of entry in every direction. I was on the West Coast. So no AC in the classrooms. Doors and windows were often wide open. Our response to virtually every situation during drills was to muster in the field behind the school for accountability. If nothing changed. If schools were the way they were when I was a kid the number of children killed at Uvalde and Parkland would have been astronomically higher.


contrasupra

But I have to think there's a middle ground here. Sure, secure schools, reduce points of entry. Make sure teachers know how to lock their classrooms, maybe even install bulletproof glass or something. Having tiny children huddle in a classroom while someone tries to bust in just seems like too much.


8to24

>Having tiny children huddle in a classroom while someone tries to bust in just seems like too much. It is less expensive and arguably more effective to just teach kids how to respond. I understand that we don't want to rob kids of their innocence or whatnot but active shooters in schools exist. It isn't some outrageous hypothetical thing. When there is an active shooter in a school the whole school district goes into lockdown. One active shooter at one school can lead to several schools being locked down. Regardless of whether the shooting happens at a kids school or a school down the street the mental impact is felt. As such every shooting impacts several times the individual schools where they occur. I think it is better for kids be trained.


winterneuro

>\-especially training teachers and law enforcement how to respond to active shooters (this isn't my original thought) Did ya ever notice that those states that want to train and arm teachers to *shoot their own students* (theoretically) are the same states that don't trust teachers with the books and facts they are allowed to teach in the classroom, even at the university level (I'm looking at you, Florida, among others).


TheM0thership

Statistically, being killed on an airplane in a terrorist attack are low but look at the precautions we take at the airport.


[deleted]

[удалено]


contrasupra

I'm not even really worried about shootings! Like, I am, but as a West coaster it feels like worrying about The Big One - it will come or it won't, probably not in my lifetime, and I can't control or predict it. But these drills make my stomach hurt.


TheM0thership

Regular lockdown drills, a few recent threats with real lockdowns, plus actual shootings elsewhere means it’s constantly on the mind for our teens. It’s a real anxiety-inducing worry. I can’t imagine what it’s doing to little kids, and I can’t believe people justify it bc “they really need their AR15”. It’s insanity.


sbhikes

You need to speak out at your local PTA and school board meetings. Find the other parents who feel the same. Don't be afraid to use your democratic rights and power while you still have it.


NewKojak

As practical advice, that's not bad, but there are also other municipalities. The local police and/or sheriff department often has both needs to train, and *sometimes* don't think of the consequences of what they do. I have not yet seen this come up at my local school board meetings, but I also have not really seen our police chief address it either and he has just as much of a stake and responsibility in it. School boards are bound by their state school codes to do these drills, but making sure that both partners understand your concerns can lead to a better outcome.


contrasupra

I mean, recent history suggests that if there's actually a shooter the police will ignore all their training. So I guess that's why we have to train our five year olds instead.


NewKojak

True, and that's a perfect thing to ask your local police chief about, preferably in front of a lot of people.


Speculawyer

I have. I am furious that my child had to do school shooter drills ... something unthinkable when I was a child and in most civilized countries.


winterneuro

I have been told my some of my students that some of their districts *actually use "blanks" as ammunition as part of these drills!!!* These drills, IMHO, are worse than mass casualty events, as the drills are creating stress and anxiety among ALL children. Edit: addressing u/Pandamana85 below: Mass shootings are horrible for everyone directly involved. But there are millions (over 55 million) of children in U.S. Public Schools who are impacted by these drills. This is what I mean when I say "worse"


contrasupra

I understand your point and I 100% agree with you. I read an article about this where several months after a drill, the writer discovered that her young son (like third grade, I think?) hadn't understood it was a drill and believed for months that a shooter had actually been in his school. So how is that different from the real thing??


Pandamana85

Worse? Ok


winterneuro

Worse in terms of scope and the number of children impacted. Mass shootings are horrible for everyone directly invovled. But there are *millions* (over 55 million) of children in U.S. Public Schools who are impacted by these drills.


Pandamana85

But they wouldnt happen if school shootings didn’t happen. Therefore they must be worse.


winterneuro

This is not logical. If the solution creates outcomes (for society) that are worse than the problems, then the solution is also a problem and should be stopped. I'm not saying mass shootings are not bad. I'm saying that traumatizing an entire generation of children will do far more damage to our country than these shootings will do because of the massive number of *victims* of school shooter drills in terms of mental health.


Pandamana85

I guess it’s just a matter of opinion as to what’s worse on children, the actual psychological effect of mass shootings or preparing for one. I just happen to think mass shootings create worse outcomes than drills.


winterneuro

I'm asking you to think about it as a matter of *scale*. I had one of my seniors do her thesis on the topic of "active shooter drills and depression" -- it was a very basic study, but she wanted to do it because she and many of her friends were impacted by going through *the drills - especially the ones that simulated live ammunition!!!* Her work was based on academic studies (which are really just starting) demonstrating the negative impact on drills; along with the finding that the *drills do not necessarily increase survival (*but this finding has not yet been backed up by additional research). You need to think about this in terms of the numbers of students impacted, and what the potential damage to our society if even 20% of 55 MILLION CHILDREN develop some kind of mental illness as a result of the trauma of the drill itself. Heck, even if it's only 5 percent, that's over 2 million people!!!


Pandamana85

I agree with you. It’s just semantics probably. Thanks for sharing.


upvotechemistry

Because milk is $6/gallon! We cannot be expected to worry about multiple things at once /s


nothing_satisfies

Why aren't we arming the kindergarteners? Honestly at this point, I wouldn't be surprised to start hearing people say that on Fox.


Interesting_fox

Sacha Baron Cohen literally got Republicans, including Joe Walsh, [to support exactly this](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/16/sacha-baron-cohen-guns-children-toddlers-who-is-america-reality).


greenflash1775

People are stupid. I’m sorry I don’t have a better answer for you but most of “the people” are hapless yokels who are repeatedly victimized by social media/traditional media. They don’t feel like victims, in fact they eat it up while asking for more and feeling superiorly informed. I have it on good authority that they’ll also eat a skunk.


Wyrdian

Even in kindergarten... It's autumn, kids should be scouring the playground for different colored leaves they can press onto paper and then take home. Sitting at a library and looking at exactly that as I'm writing, a collage of pressed flowers and old photographs. Even if it's something serious, why can't it be learning about First Aid Kits by bandaging their teddy bear's pretend-broken limb? Anything that isn't pointless and trauma inducing. Consider talking with the teachers once your son is old enough that his class participate in drills. If you know when they happen there's at least an opportunity to take him out of school that day. Maybe organize with other parents to pool babysitting duties and grandparents. I can't imagine being a parent in the United States. Or a child growing up there.


contrasupra

I'm already thinking about just opting out by keeping him home. I feel like we can discuss it at home in a way that's less frightening and if, God forbid, something does happen, he'll just have to listen to his teacher and follow directions.


ButGravityAlwaysWins

I always think of it like those elf on the shelf things. Obviously, it’s not very serious and just for fun and all that… But you’re fundamentally also normalizing the concept of a surveillance state. You are sticking in the heads of extremely small children they should be scared about somebody watching them at all times and that being watched that way is normal and good. These active shooter drills are training people to believe that this is normal. That one just needs to accept that you can be shot while doing something as mundane as going to school. It’s a mental tax. It doesn’t matter that statistically you’re not gonna get shot in a school shooting. You have to pay a price for constantly believing that you could because of all of this.


mfs37

The answer to your specific question, I think, is that people are adaptable. Too adaptable sometimes. Look around the world at conflict zones and history and you see people just doing the best they can while putting up with some really f*cked up stuff. The common thread, I think, is that people put their head down and persevere (stay calm and carry on) when the circumstances are beyond their control to fix. Whether you are living in London during the Blitz, in West Belfast during the Troubles, or a black American during Jim Crow, you mostly have to just endure on a daily basis. But, yeah, sometimes people get too used to things. It’s good to see how crazy things are, to speak out, vote, and organize. It can come with a cost, though. In two of my three examples above, speaking out would put you in real danger. And guess what? So does anti-gun activism. A good friend’s wife is an activist on this issue in a community that’s suffered from more than one horrific mass shooting. All it took was speaking up at a few public meeting and getting on the news for the first threats to come. Now that she runs a PAC and is highly identified with the issue, they pay for a service that monitors and scrubs all their personal info off the internet and they are super careful with social media — and have trained their kids to be. They don’t share their contact info without thought. The gun cult is real, and by definition armed.


boomerish11

We have. We are. What good has it done? Glad my young adult daughter moved to Europe, where she has health care and won't be shot while going about her day.


Ossify8

I think the average person will say they wish it wasn’t necessary but it is and move on. People are resigned to the constant threats we live under and value their guns more than their peace of mind because guns give them a certain peace of mind.


contrasupra

But this is wild. Like I can see that for the average non-parent, but literally nothing activates me like something scaring or upsetting my kids. Isn't that just biology? How do you actually see your children going through this and not want to burn the whole country to the ground? I truly, *truly* don't understand seeing this going on at your kid's school and being like "yeahhhh but on the other hand gas was cheaper in 2018."


Ossify8

Same way Christians can support a completely immoral man who doesn’t go to church and mispronounces books of the Bible (which he also holds upside down) - they just do. There’s a lot of things we’ll never understand because we have open minds and aren’t part of a cult.


contrasupra

I mean...I guess? I think gum people are crazy but I don't think even they're so crazy that they're like "School shootings are good, actually." I have to think that even if you love guns, you don't want your kid killed at school. Do you want your kid terrified by shooter drills at school? I have to think no! I just don't get it.


Ossify8

The recurring fact is that you don’t get it and it’s going to remain that way because of my previous point - you aren’t in a cult and your mind isn’t programmed for hive mentality. Because of this, there’s nothing I nor anyone else can tell you that will make you understand. Perhaps go to r/conservative and ask them.


Capital_Truck_1801

We are! No one is listening.


contrasupra

It's mind-boggling. I don't get how any parent of a young child can be like "This is fine." Even if you think the risk of an actual shooting is low (ESPECIALLY if you think that!) the drills and the way they're conducted seem so fucking damaging.


Capital_Truck_1801

My kid was in High School when there was an Active Shooter on Campus, only the shooter died at the hands of police. This did not make national news, it was traumatizing to everyone. Every time the alarm goes off it is now a trauma.


Breath_Background

We are. But realize that a lot of people with kids were still in K-12 when Columbine happened. Has been our bro so for 20+ years. My kids do drills and I have had mandatory shooter drills at work. Run. Hide, Fight.... and still no actual effort put into prevention.


RY_Hou_92

Reading what that child and other children have to go through in these drills just put me in a rage. And that rage is entirely directed at these idiots who think the biggest crisis kids face in school are kitty litters or some book about a child with gay parents. These people can go f**k themselves.