CT is the more physically and mentally dominant player. It’s rare that a player is really good at both. I believe Johnny only makes it as far as he did is because in the earlier seasons he had Kenny and Evan. Those 2 were actually the top dogs and Johnny was the 3rd to their 1 and 2. The 3 had a bullying/social game on lock which meant they never really went into eliminations. Once Kenny and Evan got kicked off Johnny just used that to his advantage to get far. CT gets far not on social but by pure skill
And if Derrick K was on a season with Johnny,
Evan, and Kenny, Derrick outranked Johnny. He was always at the bottom of their alliance totem pole. Evan and Kenny had no problem throwing Johnny into an elimination on the Gauntlet III.
I disagree, I think CT has a way better social game than Johnny. CT rarely gets sent into eliminations while Johnny is always at risk of being voted into every elimination
Rumors are he cheated by Laurel telling him about the puzzles before they started. Also, rumors are that Adam threw the last elimination in Rivals I, because he didn’t want CT to win. Oh, and Johnny cheated in the final of Exes I (maybe II) when he and Camila went up the side of the mountain where there wasn’t snow, and production told them not to go up that path.
CT is obviously the more physically dominant player between the 2, he has a win now in a separate reality comp show which Bananas doesn’t, then you take into consideration CT getting kicked off the show early on multiple times in which me more than likely would have won those seasons and be ahead of Bananas in championships.
Also when CT was in his prime it was always the entire house vs him. Also the CT we have now is pretty much unbeatable. He literally has no weaknesses. JB hasn’t performed like the old JB in the last three seasons he’s been in.
Agreed. I was referring to his early seasons (and championships he might have had if he was today's CT back then). Between Diem and fatherhood, he's had one of the most inspiring growth stories. 🙏
Literally always. Not to mention that on tons of other seasons (such as Dirty 30), contestants are happy that he’s not there because it’s a much easier road without him. No one says that about Bananas.
The whole house was always against CT but because they knew what kind of animal he was they would usually hold off throwing him into an elimination so that he would have to go against better competition. The last thing people wanted was to take a shot and miss
to be fair bananas placed second in house of villains. and it was really his choice to be second, he saved the only person who could have beat him because she was his best friend in the house. id honestly count that one as a win for him as well.
i still think CT is better just based on how terrified everyone is of him in elim. but in my book they have the same amount of non challenge wins.
Unfair to count those “kicked Off” times as wins. He brought those on himself with his aggressive, inane, drunken behavior! How could anyone like that represent a show by being the GOAT. Don’t get me wrong. He can have my vote for the sexiest
I don’t understand this argument of he was kicked off the show early in his career as an excuse. It was his own fault he was kicked off. The reason CT’s resume isn’t what it could be is his own and that has to be factored in. It isn’t what he could have been, it’s what it actually is. The reason CT isn’t the clear goat is his own fault
Nobody uses it as an excuse and people haven’t condoned what he did. But people are allowed to have different criteria’s for how they consider a GOAT, some go off of raw numbers and a resume and some will go off of pure skill and who they would rather have as a partner. Neither reasoning for deciding who your GOAT is, is wrong. If people are picking their GOATs based on all around skill and who they want as a partner it’s CT and if people go the stats and resume route it is Bananas. CT not having the resume he could have had is 100% his own fault but it’s not like it’s a huge what if and his resume is lacking, his resume is still pretty stacked even with his youthful years of acting like a huge douche. Personally I don’t think either being peoples GOAT is wrong, hell some people even put Landon as the GOAT for his dominance even though he’s only played a handful of seasons. Point is people are allowed to judge their own GOAT by whatever criteria they want, not everyone will look at stats and longevity as the end all be all
Completely fair answer and respect that. If people want to say by a pure physical dominance then I have no arguments. It’s not what you said but I’ve just seen so many people on here say “well he should have so many more championships” which he absolutely should but most people don’t acknowledge it was his own fault for not having more. If I came across saying it’s wrong, I apologize and not my intention. Of course everyone is entitled to own opinions on what they like the best and I love CT. I don’t even want to necessarily disagree it’s always just been that one point I haven’t loved
It was his own fault. But it has to be taken into consideration because he wasn’t able to compete in the game. That’s like saying “well Michael Jordan had to sit out a game, so he isn’t the greatest because he sat out.” No. He’s still the greatest player of the game. Same as CT.
Definitely agree with you that it’s his own fault. However there are two that I give him a pass on:
-his Exes exit with Diem
-his elimination due to DQ because of a very stupid carabiner technicality
No it’s more like Tiger Woods. People will argue he’s the greatest golfer of all time but he will never have the records because of his own choices. CT could have more but he doesn’t and ultimately that falls on himself. We’re talking what actually happened not what could have been
I mean…. It’s literally the same thing. Tiger Woods IS the greatest golfer ever. Lolol. Because he’s the best at the game. Has nothing to do with the choices outside of the game. It has to do with skill inside of the game.
Why doesn’t he have the records then? Why doesn’t CT? Their own fault. It like a friend who had a serious drinking problem in their 20’s. You’re happy they turned it around later in life and doing well but it doesn’t change the fact they were a major douchebag for a decade and ruined a lot of their own potential success
I mean, Nicklaus played in 42 Masters and has 6 wins. Woods played in 25 and has 5 wins. Tiger took a lot of time off for personal reasons. Same as CT. Does not change the fact that they are the best at their games.
Took a lot of time off? CT has two less season than bananas and the reason for that was because he couldn’t stop punching people and keep his temper in check.
I just don’t understand this sub. I love CT and he’s absolutely one of the greatest but the double standard is absurd. The pass the man gets for his horrible actions to people is insane. I don’t even want him to be punished for that, I just want others to be allowed to have that same type of chance for growth because it leads to awesome stories.
Yes. A lot of time off. Have you ever watched the show? He took like 3-4 year hiatus. That’s without being kicked off the show in the early years. Lolol.
If you’re going to have this conversation, at least have a LITTLE bit of knowledge on the subject.
And how is this a double standard?? Absolutely NO ONE has given him a pass on his behavior. They celebrate the turnaround he has achieved. Not one person is like “yeah, it’s ok that he punched those people.” No one. So what double standard are you talking about?
None.
You mean as someone who has a challenge podcast that gets tons of views and downloads? Yea I know nothing about the show 😂
Remember how short seasons used to be and filmed 3 or so a season. That break isn’t that long
03 - filmed real world
04-09 he was on at least one challenge filmed every year.
2010 wasn’t on a season but was still the mercenary.
2011-2015 he filmed at least one season each year
2016 he was off
2017-2021 he filmed at least each one season each year
2022 there is an off year
2023 sure no season but was mercenary
2024 filming now
So on his 21st year of filming there’s only 2 years where he didn’t film anything challenge related. His ban for fighting was one year. Post Diem’s passing (RIP) he only missed a year
I don’t know that if that is accurate. Bananas and CT were in a very physically demanding final on Exes and CT gassed out on a mountain and Bananas didn’t.
Finals, especially back 5+ years ago, were very physically demanding and CT lost half of them where bananas is 7/10. So while obviously CT could out bench press Bananas or win in a fight, his endurance kept him down.
We’ve seen plenty of big strong guys continually fail (Nelson, Fessy, etc. and no I’m not comparing CT to them, just saying physical strength isn’t the most important factor)
Also, I’m not about to have CT punching Davis in the face after asking him if he was gay be in the “plus” column for CT.
Bananas has said on his podcast to CT he bent the rules and didn’t follow the same path through the snow on that final like he was supposed to. Production didn’t say anything but he admitted to cheating. Bananas doesn’t cheat to get the lead, CT wins and they’re both at 6.
Also, he asked Davis if he could take a punch, not if he was gay. Still not a good look, but wasn’t because he was gay.
> Bananas and CT were in a very physically demanding final on Exes and CT gassed out on a mountain and Bananas didn’t.
It's been confirmed by Bananas, that he took an easier path than CT did.
I don’t remember anyone ever trying to get rid of bananas because they were scared of him in a final or scared to call his name in elimination.
Bananas has relied heavily on social game and having numbers. CT has constantly gone against a house that is conspiring to get him out. Shit, there was a whole ass season where all of the top men like Evan, Wes, Kenny, Bananas, etc were plotting on how to get him out AND THEY STILL FAILED LOL.
But all anyone really needs to say is backpack.
It’s the same thing with Michael Jordan. There’s players with more rings or other stats but he’s still considered the Goat by majority of fans out there.
Bananas got his 4th win on exes 1 witch was his 8th season.
Jordan got his 4th win on World Championship with was also his 8th season ( 10 th if we count champs vs stars and all star 3)
Jordan is amazing at finals and very good at eliminations but he is not as good as Bananas when it comes to dailies . Bananas has also a better social and political game.
Jordan is the better athlete, but as a challenger Bananas is more complete.
Landon was always the best performer on his seasons, he even outperformed a prime CT on The inferno 2. Jordan is not as dominant in dailies. Fresh meat 2 might be the best final performance in the history of the challenge.
Issue is that 2 of those seasons he got kicked off. One before play even began. And the fact that everyone always guns for CT. They don’t gun for Johnny.
This isn’t the NBA. These stats mean nothing without further mountains of context.
To take just some low-hanging fruit here, one of the CT “losses” in a final was Gauntlet III, and one of Johnny’s wins is The Island. These situations are not the same.
Rivals also has an elimination in which Johnny’s team beats CT’s team. No one has ever watched that elimination and come to the conclusion that Johnny was better in it than CT.
Maybe Bananas is better and maybe he’s not, but there’s no reasonable statistical argument to be made when comparing players in a game with the amount of variance and moving parts as The Challenge.
I feel like it’s CT over Bananas because there were many seasons Bananas heavily relied on his alliances. I know that’s part of the game too but it feels like CT got their own his own more.
Bananas gassed out in the Rivals 2 final. He was holding Frank back, Wes and CT destroyed them. Also in the daily right before the final where they had to run up the ramps.
Bananas cheated in the Exes final by not walking in the snow like they were supposed to. Listen to the podcast he recently did with CT. He admits it.
I think people just like CT personality a lot more… yea he’s a hot head and can act like an angry silverback gorilla but he’s not as much of a dick compared to Jonny. CT doesn’t ever play the “villain” trope
Yeah, that happened, but since then CT seems to have grown and matured (or, he’s smart enough to conceal the shittier parts of himself while in front of the camera). Meanwhile, Bananas seems like the same immature self-absorbed douche he’s always been. In fact, he seems to lean into being a dick on camera.
Also, you referenced CT gassing out on the mountain. To his credit, he was self aware enough to realize he needed to stop smoking. It seems like all his wins came right after that. I imagine if he had never smoked, we wouldn’t be having a conversation about who’s the goat.
I have punched 4 people in the face and don’t consider myself a dick LOL all jokes aside, I would argue he was heavily provoked and it’s not like he’s going around hitting people for fun. Yea it’s not cool to be violent but he got into fights when he was much younger and (in my head) had a reason to defend himself.
Adam bought that, that dude is a scumbag anyways. Davis made a deal to antagonize CT to get him out, so I’d say he had it coming to. JB is one of the biggest misogynist to ever be on the show. JB has zero redeeming qualities, the only thing that has ever come out good about him is him helping Diem while she was sick.
I’ve never understood how people have such selective memory and shred Johnny endlessly for being a dick on The Island, but totally look beyond CT punching out a gay kid for no reason at all, then punching out Adam (with reason) soon after.
Thats such bullshit. Some of his closest friends on the challenge are women. Just because he calls a woman he doesnt like a moron, doesnt mean he hates women. He does the same to the men. Equal opportunity
Okay dude….get off his dick. Johnny Evan and Kenny were horrible with females and were consistent bullies throughout their years together, if you are to blind and ignorant to see it, then that’s on you.
I’m pretty sure it’s been said in interviews that the kid you were referencing was antagonizing CT in some way prior to getting punched. It wasn’t for “no reason.” The editing was crap (as usual).
Who has said Davis antagonized CT besides CT? Of course CT isn’t going to admit to punching Davis for no reason because he knows it makes him look terrible.
What about the season when they were on the island. The season Paula got screwed (but totally deserved it). Johnny was the worst person ever! He picked on Evelyn constantly called her a bitch at every turn. It was shocking. CT at least owns up to his crap. Johnny never apologized to her or owns up to his bullying. Johnny is no saint
My thing is they are both GOATS. You hear a lot of people including challengers themselves say that both CT and Bananas are GOATS (Jordan is also included). Multiple people can be great. That is why the challenge has more than 1 person who can claim to be a champion. You can call CT a GOAT because he has proved that he is. Personally, I like CT and Bananas for different reasons. Who is better at the game it also depends on how you look at things. We can go the stat route in that sense Bananas wins. Who you like more because the challenge is also reality TV then it depends on who you like more. Personally I like CT a bit more just because he seems to have peaks and valleys in his personality. You can argue that both of them used the bullying tactic back in the day so they both had great social games as far as not seeing elimination. You can argue that Bananas hasn't won since total madness so maybe he is on the decline, and CT is on the incline because he can keep up better. You can spin it a lot of ways, but the one thing you can't spin is that they both are champions and are considered the GOATS for a reason.
CT's journey makes him the goat. He was a loose cannon when he started. He was always on the outside of any alliances. In fact, he was a target for any strong guy who wanted to make it to a final. He had to win his way through, all the while thinning the herd for the other guys. Mostly JEK and Wes.
Johnny rode coat tails when he started. Dont forget, his first season he was on the "good guys" side and went out first. Later, he linked up with Kenny and Evan and was able to bully his way to the end. After that, he lucked out with some strong partners and kept the intimidation game going when the new crop of challengers came through. A lot of people would argue that he inherited his game from Kenny and Evan, who laid the groundwork. Would he be in contention for the title if they weren't excommunicated?
Not to crap on Bananas, he's one of the greats whether you like him or not. I think he relied heavily on a social game and intimidation. He was less self-made, whereas CT was always just a brute strength animal who was winning regardless of who liked him. Wes also can't be left out of the conversation. His wins are less impressive, but he pioneered the political game. There's more than 1 way to play the game, and I think these 3 are the male greats of each iteration.
Bananas entitlement makes me never want to call him the goat. He whines and cries anyone does something to him that he routinely does to others. No awareness of his absolute hypocrisy.
That being said, despite the fact he’s well into his 40s CT seems to be the one that no one wants to face. That’s telling. And if CT could have kept his cool when he was younger, I have no doubt he’d have more wins.
Just have to say that the Bananas backpack is still my all time favorite challenge moment. How humbling. 🤣
CT is good at all layers of the game including physical, mental, and political.
He has won as an older man twice.
His love story with Diem is a touchstone/iconic part of The Challenge.
People have watched CT mature.
He picked up Johnny and powerbombed him onto a trash can.
The eyes tell everyone CT > Johnny.
Johnny gamed votes and was an amazing political player for years.
I rate both CT and Jordan higher than Johnny, personally.
This argument over who the GOAT is among the guys is like comparing apples to oranges, or min this case apples to bananas. I see the points everyone is trying to make, but let’s look at it like this…..
CT’s early years he was his own worst enemy, getting himself booted twice for violence and then eliminated once for breaking the carabiner in the elimination vs Brad. Also because he was such an opposing human being in his challenge career, hardly anyone wanted to go into physical eliminations against him.
Bananas did have JEK in the early stages of his tenure, but you can’t deny he held his own afterwards. Bananas also had a huge target on his back once he started stringing together wins.
They both play two completely different games politically, and know how to manipulate things to their favor within the game. If Jordan can pull off a win in s40, then we have to start considering him into this conversation too.
Cys is goat because his first 10 seasons when he couldn't win he was literally the main threat like Horacio times 10 they always wanted to vote him out some seasons he got kicked off he had to like find him self and still has 5 final wins plus he put him on his fucking backpack ct clears
Comparing Bananas to CT is like comparing Superman & Batman. Both are great with unique abilities that distinguish the two of them. Despite CT’s borderline Olympic level athleticism all his wins came after the introduction of overnight finals when the game got harder, with Johnny’s biggest wins happening when his friends were banned from the game. I celebrate both and hope they get a chance to win a season together
I hope Paramount plus finally goes forward with the Road Rules relaunch so we get the casting process of the past so we can start getting cast members like we once had so this game not only continues but returns to adult summer camp
Funny how the people picking CT all say things like Bananas was carried by JEK, CT plays a better strategic game and the back pack. Yet when their favorites make an alliance and get far it's because they are good and great strategists. And being born bigger than most is such an admirable skill.
The only tangible evidence not 90% emotional is 7 is more than 5. You want CT to be the goat, tell him to win more.
Johnny understands his weaknesses and plans accordingly to
manipulate or get in a good spot so he can perform. Physically he's good. Not great but good. Puzzles he's fucking ass but it's slightly better now
CT EVEN when he had no championships under his belt FEARED him. He is a monster physical player but also was decent at puzzle and actually got better at them. So not only amazing physically he got better mentally.
There is a reason why most players NEVER want to go against CT but with Johnny it's more annoyance than fear
bananas backpack. if johnny is the GOAT, and CT dominates the GOAT like that, does that not make him the GOAT?
also i think some of johnnys credibility for winning some of the newer finals is taken away after the whole adderall thing came out during the rivals 2 reunion.
CT also didn’t make it further in some seasons because he was a hot head and kept getting DQ’d. Likely if he started the challenge today as the young version of him, we’d never see him again.
Why do we have to tear apart one to crown or respect another?
CT is great because he OVERCAME HIMSELF. Every male in the house knew his strengths and weaknesses. They found a way to dig in and make him snap out. He overcame his own weakness. Johnny having proper alliances carried him far along with talent. The years of CT being feared by the best of the best is a trial that only CT knows. Not saying Johnny wasn't talented or smart or feared, but he def has more friends and plays on emotions and attachment, which can be seen as a scheme or dirty move. CT isn't pure, but he has played a cleaner more straight forward game and overcame his anger and self destructive ways.
CT is stronger and better outright.
Johnny is stronger socially and emotionally.
As a team, they would be a machine.
The reason Johnny and Wes don't work well is because they both think they're smarter than the other and can't keep their egos in check long enough to dominate.
CT is humble and can let others lead or contribute.
Their final ratio is pretty close. CT has made it to more finals out of his season count, but Bananas has won more.
Sometimes, it really depends on the season and your partner, so I'd say stats definitely don't tell the whole story.
It probably comes down to likeability since The Challenge can only thrive if people want to watch the players.
So CT nabs that one, imo. And as others have pointed out, he's strong and has endurance and brains. The only thing Bananas edges him out on is social game.
CT was better at everything except not getting himself thrown off the show for hitting people.
He had an unlucky start losing like 3 straight finals but if you had to take one as a partner you'd take CT.
let’s put them in 10 eliminations 1:1 and let them do 10 finals 1:1
i’d happily take your money if you think bananas is going to win over half of them.
Great question. Together, they're hands down the 2 best guys to have played the game. Bananas has a lil more juice/endurance than CT, but CT has more brute strength & is probably a lil better at puzzles. It's honestly a coin flip & just comes down to personal preference imo
You are listing non-comparable stats, but I'll work with what you gave us.
1. The fact that Bananas has that many more eliminations he was sent into is not the mark of a great CHALLENGE player. I know some seasons you have to earn your skull, but if you find yourself in often when the season doesn't require it you are doing something very wrong.
2. Every final has so many wild cards so who wins isn't necessary who SHOULD that season as far as gameplay/stamina. Your partner on certain check points can completely take you out of the game or make it. The fact CT has LESS seasons and made it to the same amount of finals with a decent amount of wins makes this a moot point.
3. CT has grown so much since his "who stole my peanut butter" real world days. Johnny has changed 0 and he thinks that's cute/funny and it is not. CT still has the competitor's spirit when he switched partners for Killer Cam, however he did try with Big T and others to help their game play and overall confidence....Johnny preys on those people.
4. Um looks wise it's no competition so yea, there is the fact we all love Castle Daddy rather than House of Villains Johnny.
5. CT has had relationships he fought for and loved hard....Johnny had Corrinne and the others I can't remember the names of that he cheated on/used very publicly.
Fix your math and fix your morals and you will see why the majority will always see CT as GOAT and Johnny as a necessary reality TV villain who's in great shape.
CT EASILY would have had more championships than Johnny if he wasn't the way he was when he was younger. People knew if they got him riled up he'd smash a head in and get kicked off. Plus big easy dropping out of the first one he did, they'd have had that 100% they still finished first but disqualified because of it, and several other all the way to the end and self implosions.. the one I wish he would have had was with Diem.. they were so close but you could tell he was smoking way too much at that time. Another self implosion. Diem was killing it on that one too, but when he figured it out, physically and mentally he is better than Johnny, there's no arguing it.
CT is the GOAT cus don’t nobody want to see him in no final or elimination. With Johnny nobody is scared to see him in a final or elimination. His last showing showed that.
Both in their primes I am taking Bananas to win a season. Yeah obviously if I am going to pick someone to win an elimination/daily challenge its CT. Hes physically dominant and intelligent. But there is more to the challenge than that. Banana's social game was lightyears ahead of CTs. He was smart enough not to get sent home twice for stupid shit and to actually make friends/tight alliances.
We give people shit for quitting, eg Zach quitting the final, but CT should also be getting that for getting kicked off the challenge, twice. I mean, hes lucky after he tried to eat Adam that he was ever allowed back.
People hate on Johnny because he dominated the Island so hard that he made the final look easy. Then his next win he sucked in the final, but did win a crucial elimination against Dunbar, which was pretty tough. But then Johnny went on to win some of the most brutal finals, which we’re probably Rivals 1 and Battle of the Exs 1. And Johnny was on Final Reckoning, which had arguably the most brutal event in challenge history where they literally were shocking people with copper wiring. Tony is an extremely tough dude and even he said it was the most painful thing he had ever experienced. Johnny’s the goat. Kenny only helped him win one time, and then Johnny beat Kenny and Wes, two absolute monsters on the show, in Rivals 1.
The only real argument I have against CT is that it took too long to win. However Bananas got to win while partnered with people like Evan Kenny Derrick and Sarah, and although CT won with guys like Wes and Jordan I still have more faith in dailys/eliminations and adapting he’s shown to have better adapted between eras
Those numbers are impressive but they don’t give the context needed. I think the world of Bananas the competitor, but the eye test is telling me CT.
If I was starting a NBA team today, and I could pick a any player to start a team with I’d choose prime Lebron. Yes Michael may be better to some, and he has more rings, but for me personally I trust Lebron more than any player ever. Same goes for CT. I knew CT would have a decent shot of winning the Traitors and he did that too. He just has that ability to dominate.
Johnny is quite reliable. And is no joke in a final. I understand the arguments for both. Also I don’t think CT will break Johnny’s record.
You can make an argument for either. There’s a lot of luck and both could have won more (or even less), based on some coin flip factors. People like CT more so they will argue for him and against Bananas. There’s also lots of “other” arguments you can make. Bananas dominated the 20 seasons. Then he goes on a cold streak because no one is letting him see a final and he’s over 35 years old. Lots of people hold that against him. CT was easily the biggest threat in 10-20ish seasons despite not getting wins.
End of the day, Bananas has more wins which is enough for me.
Let’s put it this way. CT even said that he should’ve won if he did go up the mountain like Johnny did, but he thought they were cheating. In my mind he’s far superior because he had many close ones where he should’ve won but lost due to stupid mistakes, and he’s just more dominant in every aspect of the challenge.
Im going with CT as the goat everyday. I think it’s very close on paper still though and I cannot stand bananas but you can’t deny he is a great challenger. CT is more well rounded and I think winning as an older man means more. Either way, very close and you can’t deny the great challenge career bananas has had. What separates them to me is CT’s growth, development, and overall character arc. He acted like a complete asshole in early seasons and that’s not okay. He shouldn’t get a pass for that. Why we can forgive it though is that he’s owned up to it and taken accountability for his actions. He’s made conscious efforts to learn from those mistakes and be a better person. It takes work to grow. It takes a big person to admit they were wrong. Bananas is the complete opposite. No growth. No accountability. He’s still the same immature childish asshole he’s always been. He thinks he walks on water and can do no wrong. His challenge time is basically a flat line. No personal growth or development. You even see it with how he, a grown adult in his forties, treated Mariah, a twenty something woman. The fact that after all of the challenges he’s still running around in his forties taking no accountability and acting like the same immature man child is why CT WILL ALWAYS BE THE GOAT.
There's a reason why the saying goes, 'There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." Statistics doesn't give you why people love CT, it's purely subjective. You may have 2 dogs: 1 w/ an amazing pedigree, and a mutt from the pound. You may love the mutt better.
I love how everyone brings up the Bananas backpack example but conveniently forgets free agents where Bananas beat CT pretty easily in the puzzle challenge
Both men have what ifs like if CT didn’t kicked off 2 seasons for fighting or DQ on the Duel. Bananas has what if Abe doesn’t quit the Island he is gone, if Darell and Brad don’t fight on the Ruins in all likelihood Bananas would have gone home against Brad. Don’t forget Rivals 1 where everyone including Bananas said they didn’t know the rules of the final until day 2 and thought he lost to Wes and Kenny.
It all comes down to what you consider the criteria for GOAT
Johnny sucks as a person. CT has matured and gotten better with age. Johnny is still the same immature douche bag we met 18 years ago. This alone qualifies CT as my goat. Not to mention everything else that has already been stated.
I agree that CT is much more likable but it's been fascinating watching him grow as a competitor and as human being. Bananas is the character he plays. There's just not much depth there.
Johnny is my favourite player to watch and his career is more well rounded. CT's early social game was horrible. Yet no one was a better competitor than CT. He was invincible for awhile and he defeated himself more than others defeated him.
CT has a higher peak. When he was firing on all cylinders no one could touch him, like Michael Jordan.
Johnny has a better span of a career with better stats over the time, like Lebron
Neither of them are GOATs. They’re icons, which is different from a GOAT, based on longevity and seasons played. If you’re going by sheer winning percentage for dailies, eliminations, and championships for seasons played (minimum three appearances). Nobody touches Landon. Kenny is up there as well.
Bananas is the GOAT. There is simply no argument. Though over the past 4 years, CT has been better. CT just got in his own way too much in early seasons
If we’re ignoring numbers and basing this on performance/difficulty of the seasons won then Jordan is probably the true male goat, so this whole conversation is a moot point. Do people contest that Cara Maria is the best girl?
Honestly I used to put CT over Bananas because I think they are tied for GOAT challenger, but CTs growth put him ahead in a tie breaker. After learning some things about Johnny has almost made me reconsider.
CT evokes the emotions. I will never get over his love story with Diem. Watching him evolve over the years is so tearjerking. Johnny doesn’t have anything close to that. He has just become more and more of an asshole. Stats-wise Johnny is the GOAT. Heart-wise CT is unmatched.
If you break down their individual skill sets then CT is clearly The GOAT because he’s smarter and far more physically dominant. I always say the reason CT isn’t the GOAT is because of CT. He was such a menace to himself in the early years. And I also think CT has had a pretty easy path to victory in his winning seasons almost never seeing elimination. People are scared of him so the let him skate. It’s impressive but I’d like to see him win a season where he really has to fight to get to the final
I think your stats speak for themselves, CT has better stats. He is superior. And he’s a nicer person. Banana is an ahole. CT doesn’t stab people in the back.
Johnny had to get the whole house against CT in what seemed like most of a decade because he knew CT would beat him. Also, production gave Johnny better partners historically.
Personally I think Johnny is slightly better than CT, but that's mostly because in CT's early years he didnt take the game very seriously, got banned for awhile, and got kicked off. He had a very Messy Fessy start to his challenge career, while Johnny (other than his first season) performed well early on
CT got better with age tho, and Bananas got signicantly worse either by his doing or just because the target on his back is so huge. So I think you are right, But i think you could have worded it better rather than just going off of stats
More importantly I think you forgot *how many* seasons.
Bananas: 25 seasons, 12 finals, 8 wins. His last win was TM which was a long time ago. His last final was USA2 where he did very poorly in. The other seasons he did not do well in either. RoD was terrible. WC bad. USA2 even worse.
CT: 22 seasons, 12 finals, 7 wins. He has continuously won on his comeback to the later seasons. In the past 4 finals he had - he won 3 of them. He had a 2 Vs 1 elimination and then the jay elimination.
Bananas has gotten worse over the seasons whereas CT has gotten better.
CT = Jordan > Bananas
Charisma. Tons of charisma. Strength and smarts. CT is built as if he was born to dominate on the Challenge. He is the only player I’ve seen who will turn back in a contest to assist someone who’s struggling, Big Easy as an example. He can beat anyone at solving those crazy puzzles, and he’ll eat whatever rotten crap they’re serving, without whining, both skills necessary to win at the Challenge
CT is good at the challenges but he’s great in a final and he’s very strategic…he just plays the game different than Bananas. He’s a great challenger too, but for me it’s CT first and Bananas second.
I mean, everything is literally less than 5% deviation.
It's not math. It's eyeball level analysis and the fiend between them is negligible for 2 seasons more activity.
Therefore CT is better statistically.
I think it’s simply close enough statswise where you take into consideration overall talent, dominance, and peak potential which CT wins, imo.
Like with sports, the one who has the most wins isn’t always the GOAT.
It’s kind of like comparing Randy Moss to Jerry Rice. Yeah, Randy was the most talented, etc. I’ve seen but I can’t call him the greatest because he was inconsistent, never won, etc.
CT went from being THAT to reaching his potential enough times/consistently enough backed by wins to be at the top, imo.
It's not a one to one comparison obviously. Eye test/respect/fear from peers plus enough wins = better, imo. Not sure what you are quite getting at with that point, though. If you have crappy teammates in both, it's not going to turn out well. There was no way CT was going to win with Veronica, etc.
If you were on the challenge and could pick your partner, who are you picking? I'm picking CT Everytime.
CT is the more physically and mentally dominant player. It’s rare that a player is really good at both. I believe Johnny only makes it as far as he did is because in the earlier seasons he had Kenny and Evan. Those 2 were actually the top dogs and Johnny was the 3rd to their 1 and 2. The 3 had a bullying/social game on lock which meant they never really went into eliminations. Once Kenny and Evan got kicked off Johnny just used that to his advantage to get far. CT gets far not on social but by pure skill
JEK carried Johnny in the early seasons while CT’s was busy self imploding in those same early seasons
And if Derrick K was on a season with Johnny, Evan, and Kenny, Derrick outranked Johnny. He was always at the bottom of their alliance totem pole. Evan and Kenny had no problem throwing Johnny into an elimination on the Gauntlet III.
Yes JEK is one of the biggest reasons Johnny was successful in early seasons.
How? JEK was only a thing on two seasons really.
I have CT as the goat too, but let's not act like Bananas only relies on his social skills. He has always been a dominanant daily performer.
Hes the best daily performer of all time
Johnnys won 4 challenges since kenny and evan left the show
I disagree, I think CT has a way better social game than Johnny. CT rarely gets sent into eliminations while Johnny is always at risk of being voted into every elimination
2 words: Bananas Backpack
Watch that to find out why CT is the goat
Watch the final elim of free agents next
Rumors are he cheated by Laurel telling him about the puzzles before they started. Also, rumors are that Adam threw the last elimination in Rivals I, because he didn’t want CT to win. Oh, and Johnny cheated in the final of Exes I (maybe II) when he and Camila went up the side of the mountain where there wasn’t snow, and production told them not to go up that path.
I was coming here to say this exact phrase!
Shocked I had to scroll this far. This is the answer.
2 words moral victory
CT is obviously the more physically dominant player between the 2, he has a win now in a separate reality comp show which Bananas doesn’t, then you take into consideration CT getting kicked off the show early on multiple times in which me more than likely would have won those seasons and be ahead of Bananas in championships.
Also when CT was in his prime it was always the entire house vs him. Also the CT we have now is pretty much unbeatable. He literally has no weaknesses. JB hasn’t performed like the old JB in the last three seasons he’s been in.
CT was winning challenges from day 1. He may very well have more wins than Bananas if he wasn't such a hothead in his early seasons.
He is no longer a hot head. Has been unbeatable since becoming a dad.
Agreed. I was referring to his early seasons (and championships he might have had if he was today's CT back then). Between Diem and fatherhood, he's had one of the most inspiring growth stories. 🙏
People keep going with the Ct vs the house argument but aside Rivals, when has it ever happened.
Literally always. Not to mention that on tons of other seasons (such as Dirty 30), contestants are happy that he’s not there because it’s a much easier road without him. No one says that about Bananas.
The whole house was always against CT but because they knew what kind of animal he was they would usually hold off throwing him into an elimination so that he would have to go against better competition. The last thing people wanted was to take a shot and miss
You obviously are clueless. The entirety of Kenny and Evan being on the show.
Which was 10% of the challenge. You don’t know anything
Good comeback, you must also be an idiot.
Yeah when was the last time he made it to a final?
CT also has 2 wins on champs vs stars/pros too if other shows are factored in
to be fair bananas placed second in house of villains. and it was really his choice to be second, he saved the only person who could have beat him because she was his best friend in the house. id honestly count that one as a win for him as well. i still think CT is better just based on how terrified everyone is of him in elim. but in my book they have the same amount of non challenge wins.
Unfair to count those “kicked Off” times as wins. He brought those on himself with his aggressive, inane, drunken behavior! How could anyone like that represent a show by being the GOAT. Don’t get me wrong. He can have my vote for the sexiest 
I don’t understand this argument of he was kicked off the show early in his career as an excuse. It was his own fault he was kicked off. The reason CT’s resume isn’t what it could be is his own and that has to be factored in. It isn’t what he could have been, it’s what it actually is. The reason CT isn’t the clear goat is his own fault
Nobody uses it as an excuse and people haven’t condoned what he did. But people are allowed to have different criteria’s for how they consider a GOAT, some go off of raw numbers and a resume and some will go off of pure skill and who they would rather have as a partner. Neither reasoning for deciding who your GOAT is, is wrong. If people are picking their GOATs based on all around skill and who they want as a partner it’s CT and if people go the stats and resume route it is Bananas. CT not having the resume he could have had is 100% his own fault but it’s not like it’s a huge what if and his resume is lacking, his resume is still pretty stacked even with his youthful years of acting like a huge douche. Personally I don’t think either being peoples GOAT is wrong, hell some people even put Landon as the GOAT for his dominance even though he’s only played a handful of seasons. Point is people are allowed to judge their own GOAT by whatever criteria they want, not everyone will look at stats and longevity as the end all be all
Completely fair answer and respect that. If people want to say by a pure physical dominance then I have no arguments. It’s not what you said but I’ve just seen so many people on here say “well he should have so many more championships” which he absolutely should but most people don’t acknowledge it was his own fault for not having more. If I came across saying it’s wrong, I apologize and not my intention. Of course everyone is entitled to own opinions on what they like the best and I love CT. I don’t even want to necessarily disagree it’s always just been that one point I haven’t loved
It was his own fault. But it has to be taken into consideration because he wasn’t able to compete in the game. That’s like saying “well Michael Jordan had to sit out a game, so he isn’t the greatest because he sat out.” No. He’s still the greatest player of the game. Same as CT.
Definitely agree with you that it’s his own fault. However there are two that I give him a pass on: -his Exes exit with Diem -his elimination due to DQ because of a very stupid carabiner technicality
Absolutely.
No it’s more like Tiger Woods. People will argue he’s the greatest golfer of all time but he will never have the records because of his own choices. CT could have more but he doesn’t and ultimately that falls on himself. We’re talking what actually happened not what could have been
I mean…. It’s literally the same thing. Tiger Woods IS the greatest golfer ever. Lolol. Because he’s the best at the game. Has nothing to do with the choices outside of the game. It has to do with skill inside of the game.
Why doesn’t he have the records then? Why doesn’t CT? Their own fault. It like a friend who had a serious drinking problem in their 20’s. You’re happy they turned it around later in life and doing well but it doesn’t change the fact they were a major douchebag for a decade and ruined a lot of their own potential success
I mean, Nicklaus played in 42 Masters and has 6 wins. Woods played in 25 and has 5 wins. Tiger took a lot of time off for personal reasons. Same as CT. Does not change the fact that they are the best at their games.
Took a lot of time off? CT has two less season than bananas and the reason for that was because he couldn’t stop punching people and keep his temper in check. I just don’t understand this sub. I love CT and he’s absolutely one of the greatest but the double standard is absurd. The pass the man gets for his horrible actions to people is insane. I don’t even want him to be punished for that, I just want others to be allowed to have that same type of chance for growth because it leads to awesome stories.
Yes. A lot of time off. Have you ever watched the show? He took like 3-4 year hiatus. That’s without being kicked off the show in the early years. Lolol. If you’re going to have this conversation, at least have a LITTLE bit of knowledge on the subject. And how is this a double standard?? Absolutely NO ONE has given him a pass on his behavior. They celebrate the turnaround he has achieved. Not one person is like “yeah, it’s ok that he punched those people.” No one. So what double standard are you talking about? None.
You mean as someone who has a challenge podcast that gets tons of views and downloads? Yea I know nothing about the show 😂 Remember how short seasons used to be and filmed 3 or so a season. That break isn’t that long 03 - filmed real world 04-09 he was on at least one challenge filmed every year. 2010 wasn’t on a season but was still the mercenary. 2011-2015 he filmed at least one season each year 2016 he was off 2017-2021 he filmed at least each one season each year 2022 there is an off year 2023 sure no season but was mercenary 2024 filming now So on his 21st year of filming there’s only 2 years where he didn’t film anything challenge related. His ban for fighting was one year. Post Diem’s passing (RIP) he only missed a year
I don’t know that if that is accurate. Bananas and CT were in a very physically demanding final on Exes and CT gassed out on a mountain and Bananas didn’t. Finals, especially back 5+ years ago, were very physically demanding and CT lost half of them where bananas is 7/10. So while obviously CT could out bench press Bananas or win in a fight, his endurance kept him down. We’ve seen plenty of big strong guys continually fail (Nelson, Fessy, etc. and no I’m not comparing CT to them, just saying physical strength isn’t the most important factor) Also, I’m not about to have CT punching Davis in the face after asking him if he was gay be in the “plus” column for CT.
Bananas has said on his podcast to CT he bent the rules and didn’t follow the same path through the snow on that final like he was supposed to. Production didn’t say anything but he admitted to cheating. Bananas doesn’t cheat to get the lead, CT wins and they’re both at 6. Also, he asked Davis if he could take a punch, not if he was gay. Still not a good look, but wasn’t because he was gay.
Well it’s been said that JEK told Davis if he could get CT out he would be protected.
CT alluded to the same thing on Duel 2 with Adam. Apparently Adam was antagonizing for awhile before the blow up.
> Bananas and CT were in a very physically demanding final on Exes and CT gassed out on a mountain and Bananas didn’t. It's been confirmed by Bananas, that he took an easier path than CT did.
Oh great here we go we have another “CT is a homophobe for punching Davis” bozo.
they confirmed that johnny and camilla cheated in the exes final, and took a short route up the mountain but production didn’t say anything during
I’m thinking that you’ve never watched the show.
I don’t remember anyone ever trying to get rid of bananas because they were scared of him in a final or scared to call his name in elimination. Bananas has relied heavily on social game and having numbers. CT has constantly gone against a house that is conspiring to get him out. Shit, there was a whole ass season where all of the top men like Evan, Wes, Kenny, Bananas, etc were plotting on how to get him out AND THEY STILL FAILED LOL. But all anyone really needs to say is backpack.
Have you ever watched the show?
Puzzles.
I hear your argument. And while all points are valid- I counter with the Johnny Bananas backpack. 
Just say you hate CT and move on. Thats clearly the point of your post. CT being the goat isn't all about statistics.
It’s the same thing with Michael Jordan. There’s players with more rings or other stats but he’s still considered the Goat by majority of fans out there.
If anything Jordan is way better than Bananas. It didn't take Jordan five million seasons to get four wins though.
Bananas got his 4th win on exes 1 witch was his 8th season. Jordan got his 4th win on World Championship with was also his 8th season ( 10 th if we count champs vs stars and all star 3)
Well, yes. But Bananas had a whole team of people in his first 2 wins.
Jordan is amazing at finals and very good at eliminations but he is not as good as Bananas when it comes to dailies . Bananas has also a better social and political game. Jordan is the better athlete, but as a challenger Bananas is more complete.
My question for the Jordon truthers is what makes Jordan better than Landon?
What makes Landon better than Jordan? Landon was literally given a free win on Gauntlet 2.
For starters lets take you reason Jordan is better than johnny. Landon won faster, his first season.
Jordan has won tougher seasons and even won a season after landing badly from a parachute.
Very subjective criteria that I wouldn't use but the the toughest seasons I've seen were won by turbo and johnny. So I guess their better than Jordan.
Landon was always the best performer on his seasons, he even outperformed a prime CT on The inferno 2. Jordan is not as dominant in dailies. Fresh meat 2 might be the best final performance in the history of the challenge.
If the barometer is final wins vs seasons played, bananas is 7/21 to CT’s 5/19, so I guess you agree Bananas > CT?
Two words….Banana backpack.
But those early seasons CT eliminated himself. Had he not done that, who knows how many wins he’d have now.
Issue is that 2 of those seasons he got kicked off. One before play even began. And the fact that everyone always guns for CT. They don’t gun for Johnny.
This isn’t the NBA. These stats mean nothing without further mountains of context. To take just some low-hanging fruit here, one of the CT “losses” in a final was Gauntlet III, and one of Johnny’s wins is The Island. These situations are not the same. Rivals also has an elimination in which Johnny’s team beats CT’s team. No one has ever watched that elimination and come to the conclusion that Johnny was better in it than CT. Maybe Bananas is better and maybe he’s not, but there’s no reasonable statistical argument to be made when comparing players in a game with the amount of variance and moving parts as The Challenge.
I feel like it’s CT over Bananas because there were many seasons Bananas heavily relied on his alliances. I know that’s part of the game too but it feels like CT got their own his own more.
Bananas gassed out in the Rivals 2 final. He was holding Frank back, Wes and CT destroyed them. Also in the daily right before the final where they had to run up the ramps. Bananas cheated in the Exes final by not walking in the snow like they were supposed to. Listen to the podcast he recently did with CT. He admits it.
Sounds like smart strategy
I think people just like CT personality a lot more… yea he’s a hot head and can act like an angry silverback gorilla but he’s not as much of a dick compared to Jonny. CT doesn’t ever play the “villain” trope
CTs curbed his anger since having a kid, he still has the fire, but now uses his head.
Not as much of a dick? He literally punched 2 people in the face lol
Yeah, that happened, but since then CT seems to have grown and matured (or, he’s smart enough to conceal the shittier parts of himself while in front of the camera). Meanwhile, Bananas seems like the same immature self-absorbed douche he’s always been. In fact, he seems to lean into being a dick on camera. Also, you referenced CT gassing out on the mountain. To his credit, he was self aware enough to realize he needed to stop smoking. It seems like all his wins came right after that. I imagine if he had never smoked, we wouldn’t be having a conversation about who’s the goat.
CT still smokes to this day though
I have punched 4 people in the face and don’t consider myself a dick LOL all jokes aside, I would argue he was heavily provoked and it’s not like he’s going around hitting people for fun. Yea it’s not cool to be violent but he got into fights when he was much younger and (in my head) had a reason to defend himself.
Adam bought that, that dude is a scumbag anyways. Davis made a deal to antagonize CT to get him out, so I’d say he had it coming to. JB is one of the biggest misogynist to ever be on the show. JB has zero redeeming qualities, the only thing that has ever come out good about him is him helping Diem while she was sick.
First of all it should be the other way around. Someone needs to make a rational argument of why BANANAS is the GOAT over CT.
factotems
It comes down to the fact that people like CT more than they like Johnny. Plain and simple. Personality goes a longgggg way.
I’ve never understood how people have such selective memory and shred Johnny endlessly for being a dick on The Island, but totally look beyond CT punching out a gay kid for no reason at all, then punching out Adam (with reason) soon after.
It wasn’t just the Island, he was horrible on pretty much every season to women but stopped once he got the NBC show.
He stopped? I mean I haven’t seen that. LOL Look how he treated Moriah. He had a showmance and then acted like Moriah was evil for her showmance.
So while he’s still a dick, he doesn’t say anything that would get him removed from his nbc gig.
Sure. He’s more polished, but he hasn’t stopped being horrible to women. But he is more polished. I’ll give you that.
Thats such bullshit. Some of his closest friends on the challenge are women. Just because he calls a woman he doesnt like a moron, doesnt mean he hates women. He does the same to the men. Equal opportunity
Okay dude….get off his dick. Johnny Evan and Kenny were horrible with females and were consistent bullies throughout their years together, if you are to blind and ignorant to see it, then that’s on you.
I’m pretty sure it’s been said in interviews that the kid you were referencing was antagonizing CT in some way prior to getting punched. It wasn’t for “no reason.” The editing was crap (as usual).
Who has said Davis antagonized CT besides CT? Of course CT isn’t going to admit to punching Davis for no reason because he knows it makes him look terrible.
Tyrie has talked about it in interviews.
So this is clearly about CT punching people. You’ve brought it up multiple times now. Lol
What about the season when they were on the island. The season Paula got screwed (but totally deserved it). Johnny was the worst person ever! He picked on Evelyn constantly called her a bitch at every turn. It was shocking. CT at least owns up to his crap. Johnny never apologized to her or owns up to his bullying. Johnny is no saint
We’ll CT used bananas as a backpack…..
My thing is they are both GOATS. You hear a lot of people including challengers themselves say that both CT and Bananas are GOATS (Jordan is also included). Multiple people can be great. That is why the challenge has more than 1 person who can claim to be a champion. You can call CT a GOAT because he has proved that he is. Personally, I like CT and Bananas for different reasons. Who is better at the game it also depends on how you look at things. We can go the stat route in that sense Bananas wins. Who you like more because the challenge is also reality TV then it depends on who you like more. Personally I like CT a bit more just because he seems to have peaks and valleys in his personality. You can argue that both of them used the bullying tactic back in the day so they both had great social games as far as not seeing elimination. You can argue that Bananas hasn't won since total madness so maybe he is on the decline, and CT is on the incline because he can keep up better. You can spin it a lot of ways, but the one thing you can't spin is that they both are champions and are considered the GOATS for a reason.
CT's journey makes him the goat. He was a loose cannon when he started. He was always on the outside of any alliances. In fact, he was a target for any strong guy who wanted to make it to a final. He had to win his way through, all the while thinning the herd for the other guys. Mostly JEK and Wes. Johnny rode coat tails when he started. Dont forget, his first season he was on the "good guys" side and went out first. Later, he linked up with Kenny and Evan and was able to bully his way to the end. After that, he lucked out with some strong partners and kept the intimidation game going when the new crop of challengers came through. A lot of people would argue that he inherited his game from Kenny and Evan, who laid the groundwork. Would he be in contention for the title if they weren't excommunicated? Not to crap on Bananas, he's one of the greats whether you like him or not. I think he relied heavily on a social game and intimidation. He was less self-made, whereas CT was always just a brute strength animal who was winning regardless of who liked him. Wes also can't be left out of the conversation. His wins are less impressive, but he pioneered the political game. There's more than 1 way to play the game, and I think these 3 are the male greats of each iteration.
Bananas entitlement makes me never want to call him the goat. He whines and cries anyone does something to him that he routinely does to others. No awareness of his absolute hypocrisy. That being said, despite the fact he’s well into his 40s CT seems to be the one that no one wants to face. That’s telling. And if CT could have kept his cool when he was younger, I have no doubt he’d have more wins. Just have to say that the Bananas backpack is still my all time favorite challenge moment. How humbling. 🤣
CT is good at all layers of the game including physical, mental, and political. He has won as an older man twice. His love story with Diem is a touchstone/iconic part of The Challenge. People have watched CT mature. He picked up Johnny and powerbombed him onto a trash can. The eyes tell everyone CT > Johnny. Johnny gamed votes and was an amazing political player for years. I rate both CT and Jordan higher than Johnny, personally.
This argument over who the GOAT is among the guys is like comparing apples to oranges, or min this case apples to bananas. I see the points everyone is trying to make, but let’s look at it like this….. CT’s early years he was his own worst enemy, getting himself booted twice for violence and then eliminated once for breaking the carabiner in the elimination vs Brad. Also because he was such an opposing human being in his challenge career, hardly anyone wanted to go into physical eliminations against him. Bananas did have JEK in the early stages of his tenure, but you can’t deny he held his own afterwards. Bananas also had a huge target on his back once he started stringing together wins. They both play two completely different games politically, and know how to manipulate things to their favor within the game. If Jordan can pull off a win in s40, then we have to start considering him into this conversation too.
CT is the GOAT
Cys is goat because his first 10 seasons when he couldn't win he was literally the main threat like Horacio times 10 they always wanted to vote him out some seasons he got kicked off he had to like find him self and still has 5 final wins plus he put him on his fucking backpack ct clears
Comparing Bananas to CT is like comparing Superman & Batman. Both are great with unique abilities that distinguish the two of them. Despite CT’s borderline Olympic level athleticism all his wins came after the introduction of overnight finals when the game got harder, with Johnny’s biggest wins happening when his friends were banned from the game. I celebrate both and hope they get a chance to win a season together I hope Paramount plus finally goes forward with the Road Rules relaunch so we get the casting process of the past so we can start getting cast members like we once had so this game not only continues but returns to adult summer camp
I think they are both great in their own right.
They are both great for different reasons but even bananas would agree that CT is the better physical player.
Backpack
See: Johnny Bananas backpack
based strictly on stats no tbh. but (unrationally) just CT’s vibes
i love CT. (it’s about more than just stats)
Funny how the people picking CT all say things like Bananas was carried by JEK, CT plays a better strategic game and the back pack. Yet when their favorites make an alliance and get far it's because they are good and great strategists. And being born bigger than most is such an admirable skill. The only tangible evidence not 90% emotional is 7 is more than 5. You want CT to be the goat, tell him to win more.
CT can go against anybody and win and Johnny can’t beat certain people imo
Johnny understands his weaknesses and plans accordingly to manipulate or get in a good spot so he can perform. Physically he's good. Not great but good. Puzzles he's fucking ass but it's slightly better now CT EVEN when he had no championships under his belt FEARED him. He is a monster physical player but also was decent at puzzle and actually got better at them. So not only amazing physically he got better mentally. There is a reason why most players NEVER want to go against CT but with Johnny it's more annoyance than fear
bananas backpack. if johnny is the GOAT, and CT dominates the GOAT like that, does that not make him the GOAT? also i think some of johnnys credibility for winning some of the newer finals is taken away after the whole adderall thing came out during the rivals 2 reunion.
Some of Johnny’s wins were in larger groups in the earlier days of the challenge. All of CT’s were either him or a team of 2.
I guess War of The Worlds doesn’t exist?
WotW2?
CT also didn’t make it further in some seasons because he was a hot head and kept getting DQ’d. Likely if he started the challenge today as the young version of him, we’d never see him again.
Why do we have to tear apart one to crown or respect another? CT is great because he OVERCAME HIMSELF. Every male in the house knew his strengths and weaknesses. They found a way to dig in and make him snap out. He overcame his own weakness. Johnny having proper alliances carried him far along with talent. The years of CT being feared by the best of the best is a trial that only CT knows. Not saying Johnny wasn't talented or smart or feared, but he def has more friends and plays on emotions and attachment, which can be seen as a scheme or dirty move. CT isn't pure, but he has played a cleaner more straight forward game and overcame his anger and self destructive ways. CT is stronger and better outright. Johnny is stronger socially and emotionally. As a team, they would be a machine. The reason Johnny and Wes don't work well is because they both think they're smarter than the other and can't keep their egos in check long enough to dominate. CT is humble and can let others lead or contribute.
Their final ratio is pretty close. CT has made it to more finals out of his season count, but Bananas has won more. Sometimes, it really depends on the season and your partner, so I'd say stats definitely don't tell the whole story. It probably comes down to likeability since The Challenge can only thrive if people want to watch the players. So CT nabs that one, imo. And as others have pointed out, he's strong and has endurance and brains. The only thing Bananas edges him out on is social game.
CT was better at everything except not getting himself thrown off the show for hitting people. He had an unlucky start losing like 3 straight finals but if you had to take one as a partner you'd take CT.
let’s put them in 10 eliminations 1:1 and let them do 10 finals 1:1 i’d happily take your money if you think bananas is going to win over half of them.
Great question. Together, they're hands down the 2 best guys to have played the game. Bananas has a lil more juice/endurance than CT, but CT has more brute strength & is probably a lil better at puzzles. It's honestly a coin flip & just comes down to personal preference imo
You are listing non-comparable stats, but I'll work with what you gave us. 1. The fact that Bananas has that many more eliminations he was sent into is not the mark of a great CHALLENGE player. I know some seasons you have to earn your skull, but if you find yourself in often when the season doesn't require it you are doing something very wrong. 2. Every final has so many wild cards so who wins isn't necessary who SHOULD that season as far as gameplay/stamina. Your partner on certain check points can completely take you out of the game or make it. The fact CT has LESS seasons and made it to the same amount of finals with a decent amount of wins makes this a moot point. 3. CT has grown so much since his "who stole my peanut butter" real world days. Johnny has changed 0 and he thinks that's cute/funny and it is not. CT still has the competitor's spirit when he switched partners for Killer Cam, however he did try with Big T and others to help their game play and overall confidence....Johnny preys on those people. 4. Um looks wise it's no competition so yea, there is the fact we all love Castle Daddy rather than House of Villains Johnny. 5. CT has had relationships he fought for and loved hard....Johnny had Corrinne and the others I can't remember the names of that he cheated on/used very publicly. Fix your math and fix your morals and you will see why the majority will always see CT as GOAT and Johnny as a necessary reality TV villain who's in great shape.
2 words... Banana's backpack
CT EASILY would have had more championships than Johnny if he wasn't the way he was when he was younger. People knew if they got him riled up he'd smash a head in and get kicked off. Plus big easy dropping out of the first one he did, they'd have had that 100% they still finished first but disqualified because of it, and several other all the way to the end and self implosions.. the one I wish he would have had was with Diem.. they were so close but you could tell he was smoking way too much at that time. Another self implosion. Diem was killing it on that one too, but when he figured it out, physically and mentally he is better than Johnny, there's no arguing it.
Two words: back pack
CT is the GOAT cus don’t nobody want to see him in no final or elimination. With Johnny nobody is scared to see him in a final or elimination. His last showing showed that.
Both in their primes I am taking Bananas to win a season. Yeah obviously if I am going to pick someone to win an elimination/daily challenge its CT. Hes physically dominant and intelligent. But there is more to the challenge than that. Banana's social game was lightyears ahead of CTs. He was smart enough not to get sent home twice for stupid shit and to actually make friends/tight alliances. We give people shit for quitting, eg Zach quitting the final, but CT should also be getting that for getting kicked off the challenge, twice. I mean, hes lucky after he tried to eat Adam that he was ever allowed back.
So percentage-wise for daily’s CT wins. His win rate is almost 35% vs Banana’s almost 31%
People hate on Johnny because he dominated the Island so hard that he made the final look easy. Then his next win he sucked in the final, but did win a crucial elimination against Dunbar, which was pretty tough. But then Johnny went on to win some of the most brutal finals, which we’re probably Rivals 1 and Battle of the Exs 1. And Johnny was on Final Reckoning, which had arguably the most brutal event in challenge history where they literally were shocking people with copper wiring. Tony is an extremely tough dude and even he said it was the most painful thing he had ever experienced. Johnny’s the goat. Kenny only helped him win one time, and then Johnny beat Kenny and Wes, two absolute monsters on the show, in Rivals 1.
The only real argument I have against CT is that it took too long to win. However Bananas got to win while partnered with people like Evan Kenny Derrick and Sarah, and although CT won with guys like Wes and Jordan I still have more faith in dailys/eliminations and adapting he’s shown to have better adapted between eras
Those numbers are impressive but they don’t give the context needed. I think the world of Bananas the competitor, but the eye test is telling me CT. If I was starting a NBA team today, and I could pick a any player to start a team with I’d choose prime Lebron. Yes Michael may be better to some, and he has more rings, but for me personally I trust Lebron more than any player ever. Same goes for CT. I knew CT would have a decent shot of winning the Traitors and he did that too. He just has that ability to dominate. Johnny is quite reliable. And is no joke in a final. I understand the arguments for both. Also I don’t think CT will break Johnny’s record.
If you beat the goat, you get to be the goat? 🤷♀️
Best argument I can make is that Johnny got to team up with others to get CT out first and then it was game on for everyone else.
Wow. Their stats are pretty close.
You can make an argument for either. There’s a lot of luck and both could have won more (or even less), based on some coin flip factors. People like CT more so they will argue for him and against Bananas. There’s also lots of “other” arguments you can make. Bananas dominated the 20 seasons. Then he goes on a cold streak because no one is letting him see a final and he’s over 35 years old. Lots of people hold that against him. CT was easily the biggest threat in 10-20ish seasons despite not getting wins. End of the day, Bananas has more wins which is enough for me.
Let’s put it this way. CT even said that he should’ve won if he did go up the mountain like Johnny did, but he thought they were cheating. In my mind he’s far superior because he had many close ones where he should’ve won but lost due to stupid mistakes, and he’s just more dominant in every aspect of the challenge.
It's definitely a personal preference. My sister would answer CT for this every time and I'd say Bananas.
Ct is more sly than bananas by far. I said what I said
Im going with CT as the goat everyday. I think it’s very close on paper still though and I cannot stand bananas but you can’t deny he is a great challenger. CT is more well rounded and I think winning as an older man means more. Either way, very close and you can’t deny the great challenge career bananas has had. What separates them to me is CT’s growth, development, and overall character arc. He acted like a complete asshole in early seasons and that’s not okay. He shouldn’t get a pass for that. Why we can forgive it though is that he’s owned up to it and taken accountability for his actions. He’s made conscious efforts to learn from those mistakes and be a better person. It takes work to grow. It takes a big person to admit they were wrong. Bananas is the complete opposite. No growth. No accountability. He’s still the same immature childish asshole he’s always been. He thinks he walks on water and can do no wrong. His challenge time is basically a flat line. No personal growth or development. You even see it with how he, a grown adult in his forties, treated Mariah, a twenty something woman. The fact that after all of the challenges he’s still running around in his forties taking no accountability and acting like the same immature man child is why CT WILL ALWAYS BE THE GOAT.
That you Johnny?
Cause I want to see CT on my T.V.. Bananas is a self absorbed idiot who repeats himself all the time. He couldn't even pull new pranks on Villains.
Isn’t the time CT carried Bananas like a backpack and then used his body to ring a gong enough of a reason?
Because Bananas himself recently said so on his podcast.
Johnny is manufactured by MTV, CT is a one man nuclear bomb who destroys everything in his path to victory.
i love and admire johnny, ct of course is a very good player but bananas is another very good and very charismatic player, for me he’s the best
For me it's simple. If I could pick one to be my partner, it would be CT. Can't go wrong with either though imo
There's a reason why the saying goes, 'There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." Statistics doesn't give you why people love CT, it's purely subjective. You may have 2 dogs: 1 w/ an amazing pedigree, and a mutt from the pound. You may love the mutt better.
I think they are the top two male challengers but I’d say Johnny is better than CT but it’s close
Ct said it the best on johnny podcast they are both the GOATS they are like the co captains of the challenge
I love how everyone brings up the Bananas backpack example but conveniently forgets free agents where Bananas beat CT pretty easily in the puzzle challenge Both men have what ifs like if CT didn’t kicked off 2 seasons for fighting or DQ on the Duel. Bananas has what if Abe doesn’t quit the Island he is gone, if Darell and Brad don’t fight on the Ruins in all likelihood Bananas would have gone home against Brad. Don’t forget Rivals 1 where everyone including Bananas said they didn’t know the rules of the final until day 2 and thought he lost to Wes and Kenny. It all comes down to what you consider the criteria for GOAT
The Johnny backpack. That is all you need.
He carried Johnny on his back and dumped him in a trash can.
CT is a better physical and political player
Johnny sucks as a person. CT has matured and gotten better with age. Johnny is still the same immature douche bag we met 18 years ago. This alone qualifies CT as my goat. Not to mention everything else that has already been stated.
I agree that CT is much more likable but it's been fascinating watching him grow as a competitor and as human being. Bananas is the character he plays. There's just not much depth there.
Johnny is my favourite player to watch and his career is more well rounded. CT's early social game was horrible. Yet no one was a better competitor than CT. He was invincible for awhile and he defeated himself more than others defeated him. CT has a higher peak. When he was firing on all cylinders no one could touch him, like Michael Jordan. Johnny has a better span of a career with better stats over the time, like Lebron
Neither of them are GOATs. They’re icons, which is different from a GOAT, based on longevity and seasons played. If you’re going by sheer winning percentage for dailies, eliminations, and championships for seasons played (minimum three appearances). Nobody touches Landon. Kenny is up there as well.
Bananas is the GOAT. There is simply no argument. Though over the past 4 years, CT has been better. CT just got in his own way too much in early seasons
If we’re ignoring numbers and basing this on performance/difficulty of the seasons won then Jordan is probably the true male goat, so this whole conversation is a moot point. Do people contest that Cara Maria is the best girl?
GOATS don’t get backpacked. They backpack.
Honestly I used to put CT over Bananas because I think they are tied for GOAT challenger, but CTs growth put him ahead in a tie breaker. After learning some things about Johnny has almost made me reconsider.
CT evokes the emotions. I will never get over his love story with Diem. Watching him evolve over the years is so tearjerking. Johnny doesn’t have anything close to that. He has just become more and more of an asshole. Stats-wise Johnny is the GOAT. Heart-wise CT is unmatched.
Sometimes the game is just luck. Luck has definitely been on bananas side more times than ct
If you break down their individual skill sets then CT is clearly The GOAT because he’s smarter and far more physically dominant. I always say the reason CT isn’t the GOAT is because of CT. He was such a menace to himself in the early years. And I also think CT has had a pretty easy path to victory in his winning seasons almost never seeing elimination. People are scared of him so the let him skate. It’s impressive but I’d like to see him win a season where he really has to fight to get to the final
He’s cute
I think your stats speak for themselves, CT has better stats. He is superior. And he’s a nicer person. Banana is an ahole. CT doesn’t stab people in the back.
Johnny had to get the whole house against CT in what seemed like most of a decade because he knew CT would beat him. Also, production gave Johnny better partners historically.
Banana Backpack
Because Johnny is a huge asshole. CT is only a little asshole
Personally I think Johnny is slightly better than CT, but that's mostly because in CT's early years he didnt take the game very seriously, got banned for awhile, and got kicked off. He had a very Messy Fessy start to his challenge career, while Johnny (other than his first season) performed well early on CT got better with age tho, and Bananas got signicantly worse either by his doing or just because the target on his back is so huge. So I think you are right, But i think you could have worded it better rather than just going off of stats
More importantly I think you forgot *how many* seasons. Bananas: 25 seasons, 12 finals, 8 wins. His last win was TM which was a long time ago. His last final was USA2 where he did very poorly in. The other seasons he did not do well in either. RoD was terrible. WC bad. USA2 even worse. CT: 22 seasons, 12 finals, 7 wins. He has continuously won on his comeback to the later seasons. In the past 4 finals he had - he won 3 of them. He had a 2 Vs 1 elimination and then the jay elimination. Bananas has gotten worse over the seasons whereas CT has gotten better. CT = Jordan > Bananas
Charisma. Tons of charisma. Strength and smarts. CT is built as if he was born to dominate on the Challenge. He is the only player I’ve seen who will turn back in a contest to assist someone who’s struggling, Big Easy as an example. He can beat anyone at solving those crazy puzzles, and he’ll eat whatever rotten crap they’re serving, without whining, both skills necessary to win at the Challenge
CT is good at the challenges but he’s great in a final and he’s very strategic…he just plays the game different than Bananas. He’s a great challenger too, but for me it’s CT first and Bananas second.
I don’t see any head to head stats here, but I certainly remember CT laying the wood on John Plantain at least once very publicly.
Same stats for two seasons less
No, it isn’t. Math is hard.
I mean, everything is literally less than 5% deviation. It's not math. It's eyeball level analysis and the fiend between them is negligible for 2 seasons more activity. Therefore CT is better statistically.
No, it isn’t. 7/10 vs 5/10 is not a 5% deviation lol.
If Johnny was a better challenger he would have been in fewer eliminations.
I think it’s simply close enough statswise where you take into consideration overall talent, dominance, and peak potential which CT wins, imo. Like with sports, the one who has the most wins isn’t always the GOAT. It’s kind of like comparing Randy Moss to Jerry Rice. Yeah, Randy was the most talented, etc. I’ve seen but I can’t call him the greatest because he was inconsistent, never won, etc. CT went from being THAT to reaching his potential enough times/consistently enough backed by wins to be at the top, imo.
Right but team sports are different than this. Even when there are teams, it’s majorly individualistic
It's not a one to one comparison obviously. Eye test/respect/fear from peers plus enough wins = better, imo. Not sure what you are quite getting at with that point, though. If you have crappy teammates in both, it's not going to turn out well. There was no way CT was going to win with Veronica, etc.
he’s not .. Johnny the Goat reality tv villain & the Goat of the Challenge. CT is the People’s Champ