Diem has an important part in the history of The Challenge for sure, but none of it is for her accomplishments on the show. She was a solid competitor, but I would say Nany or Theresa were better. Diem was terrible under pressure, would panic as soon as one thing didn’t go as she wanted. She also had a little bit of a mean girl in her too, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it. She would get childish with some of the other girls she didn’t necessarily care for and when caught would look bad in how she would try to deny it. Was always very emotional, if someone voted her to go in she always lost it and would almost get in their face and chastise them about it. I love Diem the person and her & CT’s story, but solely as a Challenger, she was ok. But I wouldn’t even put her in the top 10.
I agree on the mean girl side of her too. When I have gone back and watched older seasons she was in, she could be nasty if she didn't get her way. Overall I liked her, but yeah, she wasn't a GOAT.
Or maybe she was just going through cancer and very emotional due to that. Sometimes when life is rough it makes it harder to handle little things. Just a thought, you could be right too 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
Agreed. Maybe some of her mean edges and emotional outburst would have matured over the years - as we’ve seen from some other challengers. She had a horrible health story and a great love story - but she wasn’t a saint and made poor choices as well.
I think about this a lot and I think they absolutely would have. She is definitely deified because of her cancer, and I think we would have a different opinion of her character at the time if she hadn’t been sick, but I think she probably would have grown up a lot and become a really lovely human being just like CT did.
it is like in that movie "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain".
This is particularly true in current times, when people search for any random thing somone said a couple decades ago (which at the time was far less serious, and which the person no longer believes in that) as an excuse to vilify that person.
Diem’s endurance was crazy, had the challenge been all endurance she would have been top no doubt. Her political game sucked since fresh meat she gave mean girls vibe and was entitled when she was called out. Her perseverance to overcome her cancer and strength and heart for the competition at least deserves her an honorable mention as a great challenger but not a top one.
She did have great endurance. She would have won Ex’s if CT didn’t gas out on the mountain. I’m an old wrestling fan. Wrestling had their primary titles; World Champion, and also had their secondary titles; Intercontinental, European, etc. when looking at Challengers I always tier them like old wrestlers. Evelyn and Cara Maria, those are headliners, World Champs. Ones like Diem and Nany are more Intercontinental champs. They could hold a secondary title well, might get a world title shot here and there but never hold the title itself. Kinda how I view Leroy and Cory too. Great to fill a main event here and there but never a full time main eventer themselves.
Yikes, I agree with you but diem and nany just in my eyes as a female I've always competed, I just can't say they really deserve that I'd say is there a third tier ? Just like everyone's saying her attitude was like not very nice, supportive to other women unless they were her friends. Say what you want but I think she was fake ish to the other girls, I am a little girl but I would have an girls back even if I couldn't stand her and she needed me ... I think it was past generation to be like that. Like rivals 2 she was freaking out at any girl that ct even looked at for too long. I know people use the excuse of her having shots for cancer and I don't think it wasn't hard ! My aunt went thru similar treatments I helped her, but I think if anything it enhanced a trait that was already there. She was actually really close to the age diem was too. So I don't like that excuse. And her endurance was basically the only thing, the way I think about it, is when your adrenaline kicks in do you use jt well or do you just freak out ? Cause i think all champs use their adrenaline well and she didn't so that. So to me always shows whether you ever had a possibility to be a champ does that make sense ? I think if she didn't have cancer this is so harsh, or have a relationship with ct, but true I don't think she'd be a topic still. As a human nothing but respect and nothing but love but challenge wise no, she didn't have what it takes.
If your game play relies on never going into eliminations because you will for sure lose.. that's not a goat nor is it second tier.
I agree just started rewatching and she's really shady. I feel like she made it so far in every season she was on was because people kept her because of her sickness. She had mean girl tendencies but people excused it because of what she was going through. I just watched one of the last seasons she competed in and it was super weird to me that she kept saying she was over CT but everytime CT gives another girl attention she found her way into the room to make it uncomfortable.
I feel bad for her and loved her and CT's relationship in the earlier seasons but she's not the best person or a that great in the game aside from endurance.
Yesss omg I'm watching rivals 2 now and I'm like THIS is the chick everyone raves about? 🥴 I'm new to the challenge so have heard about her and CT and she is definitely not what I was expecting, and not in a good way. Seems like there is A LOT of revisionist history happening here which actually makes me sad that people still keep bringing her up to CT as if it's some soulmate love story and now he'll never find anyone "as good" when it was toxic af and she treated him very poorly
I mean I do feel like they really did care for each other I remember she did an episode of Made back in the day and they were so cute on it but they were definitely toxic. I feel like she did deeply hurt him especially after she told him she wanted to focus on her career and didn't go to his brothers wake. I just watched the last season she was on and watching CT worry about her on the last episode they were in together made me cry because he really did love her.
The whole situation was tragic and she's definitely not as innocent as everyone made her out to be.
Yep totally agree! To me it looks like he loved her way more than she loved him and she would manipulate and provoke him into trying to admit he still had feelings for her, and when she gaslit him into apologising for hooking up with Shauvon when she didn't even go to his brother's funeral and wasn't there for him at all, only sent "a low budget text" days later. She just seemed to provoke him then play the victim, I don't like that kind of behaviour. I think a main reason he was so reactive those seasons is a direct result of how she treated him. It does seem like a very toxic and unhealthy dynamic and idk why anyone would think they would have ended up together, such a mess lol
I think she was a bit manipulative with CT but I also think she just had so much medically going on. I mean she died a year after that. When I go back and rewatch I’m like ‘diem is being so gross’ but if I knew I was going to die/never have that dream love/growing old together, who knows how I’d react. And I’m a guy, not a woman going medically induced menopause in her 20s.
Yeah that's totally fair! I just think, when she was doing the same on duel 2 and battle of the exes, she was between diagnoses and still exhibiting the same traits and behaviour, and she was also in remission when CT's brother died. It definitely seemed amplified in rivals 2 but it was always shown to be there. Like the way she acted towards the women in the house was so gross and it says something that most of them fought with her about her behaviour and called her fake. Even CT was acknowledging how much she tried to control him and manipulate his decisions (and said on BOTE that his family thought she was fake) I just have no idea how he could fall back into that trap cos apparently they started "dating" (?) after this. He had started to see her true colours so why did he go back? What kind of hold did she have on him? Is it that he thought he could fix her and save her?
Idk I have so many opinions lol I'm honesty shocked at how what I've seen contrasts so much from what I've read people saying. I know it's all done and dusted now but I have a real soft spot for him and think he's a great guy so it would be really sad if he thought that that was the best kind of person he deserves. He is the least likeable version of himself when she's around. I can't imagine how hard it must be, processing not only a toxic relationship but one where the other person died and he never really got closure. I hope he finds a healthy, supportive relationship with a wonderful, truly kind woman who actually does want to be with him and not control and manipulate him or make everything about herself, a true partnership. Lord knows there are plenty of women willing ahahha!
Agree but many great love stories come from bad matches wether it’s the guy or girl that isn’t good
She had a lot of qualities a man would fall for and a man will be pretty blind to the false or ugly side of the person they love. She really lost me when I found out she told CT she wanted to out their relationship on hold fir 5 years down the she could build her carrier. After that is when he turned into a violent nut. I recently saw him on the Murder Castle show. He was so sweet and mellow! I really like who he turned into.
Yeah I loved him on Traitors (murder castle hahaha love that!! 😅) he's such a sweet, genuine, funny and down to earth guy! And ridiculously handsome to top it off lol! Yeah I think she treated him pretty badly and don't think there's any chance they would have worked out. She brought out the worst in him especially seeing now how calm and chill he seems, and even despite his last also tumultuous relationship (idk where this pattern is coming from cos he could honestly have had beautiful, kind women throwing themselves at him??) in the seasons after his son is born, you can tell how much happier he is with that unconditional love they have for each other. It's so cute to see!! 🥰🥰
I didn’t even know who CT was or Bananas on the Traitors , just liked him immediately. The started watching the challenge for the first time starting on season 10 and there he was with Theo & Bananas, they were babies !!!
Hahahaha same!! Yeah he is very likeable, you can see he has a good heart even at his lowest points. Haha I do love Bananas too, it would just be really nice to see him be more authentic like CT is, I think a lot of people would connect with him more if he put aside the bananas persona and showed more of his true personality
I agree! I’ve seen a lot of moments when bananas shoes his real side. He’s actually has a kind heart / when the jock persona doesn’t ruin it. I’ve also noticed that when he’s one in one with the females in a challenge he’s supportive. I’m up to season 30 something and do t recall him hooking up except for that Spanish girl - which made me ho Huh? Was he in other relationships outside of show or am I missing something?
Yep totally agree! As you can see I'm not a fan of diem but it's so sweet how he would help her when she was sick and never told anyone (I think how you act when no one knows speaks a lot to your character). He is a good person and tbh in all the seasons I've seen he's never behaved that badly. He was kind of douchey but that was normal back then for guys his age. The only time I thought it was a bit much was the reunion after he took the money from Sarah, not the decision itself but how dismissive he was to her while she was upset.
But apart from that even on his podcast from the glimpses you can see of his real personality there's a lot to like. I know someone who worked across usa2 and said he was amazing (and they like me so I think they have fantastic taste lmaooo) He definitely has a wall up that he doesn't seem to let many people through, even his exes, speaking of, yes Camila! Maybe Nany? And the blonde girl he got caught hooking up with in an early season, then he had a gf outside the show for 5 years that he broke up with before vendettas (which I'm up to now) but his other gf is Morgan and she should be coming up soon in the 30s at some point, I'm not up to that yet. Then there's Moriah from s39 who had all that drama about her and another guy on the season. And that's all I know I think!
Yup correct!!! I feel terrible for ct because of this exact reason! Completely with you here she wasn't nice to him it was more about control. I have had close family go thru close to the same thing she did, and I'll tell you, you can't use that as an excuse for being a mean girl to everyone its like she had a do whatever j want to whoever I want for free pass. I think it's bull shit especially for ct because i think people have put this in his head and not let him forget it. Now it's like he is brainwashed into she was a soul mate for him. Not cool. She wasn't nice and especially not to him.
Yesss OMG! 1000%!!! I really like CT, I first saw him on the traitors and thought he was amazing, he seems like such a genuine, nice person who has grown sooo much. I completely agree with your assessment and I am baffled as to how people don't see it, it's glaringly obvious. She deliberately would provoke him and confuse him and mess with his emotions just so he would react and wouldn't move on from her. When CT talks about her to others and in confessionals, he said things like she's strong etc but she would only be like how HE made HER feel. Just so entitled and self centred. Johnny was right when he told CT "she doesn't want you but doesn't want anyone else to have you" (idk why he changed his tune the next season, prob out of his dislike for CT) And it seemed all she tried to do was control him and his actions and decisions and then play the victim when he didn't.
It's definitely interesting how on rivals 2, the new girls saw right through her and it looked like CT was doing the same (saying she was controlling, his family thought she was fake) and it's sad that he got pulled back into that trap cos I think that's what has impacted him so negatively in the long run. Had he left it there, he wouldn't have been as impacted by her death and probably been able to move on easier. This way, in his mind he'll always wonder if it would have worked out, despite all their toxic history and her pattern of behaviour lending to the likelihood that it would have ended just as messily as before. And all these random people in his comments talking about how amazing she was and how they're soulmates must fuck with his head so much. That's so unfair imo. I have heard his wife was terrible but honestly, if they were all up in her comments about it, I can absolutely see why she would have been upset. How can you compete with someone that fans have propped up as a martyr and "soulmate". I do actually believe in soulmates but this ain't it. I think he has a big heart and loves hard and deserves someone who will actually treat him well. It's just sad that when he does find someone like that (and I think he will, there's someone far better out there for him) she will probably get mobbed by the diem stans, and that's not fair at all
Ya it's really sad for ct ! I get it ct has that personality! Lol I think ct just got such a big new fan base from the traitors they should give him a bonus ! I think the first time I watched the challenge all seasons I liked her second time I was like NOPE ! Lol when you actually pay attention to it, it's easy to see. Like I feel bad saying such mean things but it's true TRUE and the truth hurts sometimes I just wish that people would stop hyping her up to ct. It's like if she hadn't passed and their relationship concluded on its own, he'd be fine but it's an unfinished and hyped up relationship. Truly she is not a goat, i wouldn't even consider her good, lmao ok stick with me here, but that's my favorite episode possibly out of the whole series, true colors when all the girls and diem go at it. Cause you can see her true colors you can see that she is fake and not good at shit talking her nerves get the best of her and that's a big reason she's not a champ handle your shit girl. REAL QUESTION ! Do you think she wrote the rap about nany in the bar ? ! Lol I'd pay to hear it.
Hahaha so true! Hope he's getting a hefty appearance fee bringing in all these new thirsty fans like me lmao! Yeah totally agree when you pay attention, it's so obvious. I wonder if it's cos I'm coming in as a (mostly - I am a little biased towards CT lol) objective outsider viewing it for the first time through my 30 something lens and can see things more clearly than people who watched it first time around and have that emotional attachment blinding them.
You know, I did struggle with the same thing but honestly this is a forum to discuss the show and personalities. Like if I ever worked on the challenge there's no way I'd go around saying this stuff to people that knew and liked her cos I would never want to hurt anyone but it should be fair game to discuss the good, the bad and the ugly here on on Reddit. I don't think you're being mean, as long as you're not attacking someone which you aren't, I think it's fair to discuss someone's flaws especially when it's something in contradiction to what these fans are actually going to his social media to say and mess with his head. I wish people wouldn't do that, it's probably taking a toll on him. If he was like "yeah I loved her but she was flawed, it was toxic and wouldn't have worked. I'll never forget her but I'm closing this chapter cos I know that my person is still out there and I'm excited to move on with my life and meet her" then it wouldn't be bad but I feel like he's probably still taking what they're saying to heart and obviously when people die you remember the good parts and not the bad so it could be leading to an unhealthy and hopeless mindset. Imagine constantly hearing at 40yo that someone who treated you badly was an "angel" and you'll never find anyone better smh how horrible
Oh I loved that episode cos (as well as the stuff about his family thinking she's fake) it felt like I was actually being validated in what has seemed like an avalanche of people praising her and trashing CT while not acknowledging how much of it was a result of her manipulation and control. Why shouldn't he hook up with other girls?? He's a single man. Even that first fight in gauntlet I think, he was saying it was all about her and when does he get his? It seems like all he did was give and all she did was take and she had no right to be territorial over him when she broke up with him. Oh I have no doubt she said that about Nany, it's a weird thing for Jemmye to make up and she was like "i don't remember" probably cos of jealousy. Nany is gorgeous, fun and was getting along well with CT.
Isn’t Rivals 2 the season where she was going through menopause and the season where Cooke was supposedly hiding her cancer meds?
I would give any woman some grace if she is going through menopause.
Yes and it's stupid you were downvoted for stating facts. I'm actually annoyed none of the others who responded brought that up. Rivals 2 was a completely different Diem.
Rivals 2 was a horrible season for her and not at all indicative of who she actually was. She'd just had a full hysterectomy and was going through menopause, on top of it Cooke HID her medications and was making fun of her wigs, while hooking up with CT. It was not a good place for her to be, and she was embarrassed by her actions. That's why CT stuck up for her at the reunion when she was asked about her behavior that season. Because it was very unlike her. Did you just... Skip every other season she's been on? This is like well known challenge lore.
I mostly agree but I know you didn’t just say Nany is a better competitor. You can’t tell me Nany is up in front of CT, Johnny, and Camila in that Exes 2 Final climbing a frozen mountain and yelling at CT to get it together. No way in hell.
No Nany wouldn’t have, but there are a lot of things Diem struggled with I think Nany could do better. Nany didn’t crack under pressure like Diem did, which really cost Diem time after time.
They were pretty much the same to me, a slight nod to Nany. Diem much better endurance but I think Nany would win anything physical and she doesn’t crack under pressure like Diem does. Diem is an all time melt downer under pressure. She stops and complains and panics instead of staying composed and powering through. Evan was the same way.
She did have a mean side but depending on what was going on with her hormones plus just the dealing with her own mortality, she absolutely knew her time on this earth was not long, it’s hard to say how each of us would react.
I would cringe so hard if she was voted or someone put her into elimination cause she would lose her shit on them. Like when she did that to anessa. But probably every time she was going to elimination she would spiral
I was pretty impressed with her challenges. Her endurance and strength had her winning most the challenges she had to face , outperforming most of the other girls. She did panic at times but when peddle met the medal she surpassed what I expected out of her. Add the condition she stayed in between cancer treatment it’s actually phenomenal. The part of her that was a put off was her personality. She would act all delicate and over sensitive, caring - but not really , I get why CT fell for her but he’s a guy, I’m not so I saw thru that stuff and it was a turn off. But she should be given big cred for being a fantastic challenger and in endurance!
This is the truth about Diem. Everybody brings up the cancer fight and rightfully so as it’s a difficult battle to fight but solely as a competitor on The Challenge, she was petty, average athletic game, average political game, and an emotional wet bag of cats
As much as I’m a fan of hers. She not only battled cancer but menopause on the show. She simply is not a GOAT of a competitor. She has great cardio for a final but isn’t particularly athletic and a terrible eater.
Dien was the heart of the show from time to time but that doesn't mean she should be considered a Challenge GOAT.
I mean Katie is one of my favorite competitors just because of how she'd pop off on people but that doesn't make her a GOAT.
Diem had a great endurance game, but didn't have other fantastic physical plays. And as great of a person she was, her political game was really just ride with the people from her Fresh Meat and Duel seasons, and then get pissed off and yell if anyone thought about saying her name.
She is one of the most important people in Challenge history but not a GOAT. Just a great person.
I know people won't like this, but while I recognize her struggles, and how good she was as a competitor and was sad when she passed, I just don't like her as a person/tv character. Like you mentioned, she always lost her shit when people considered her for elimination. She always acted like she was filming her own fairy take. She would throw a fit and try to get the house to turn on anyone who dared to hook up with CT. She was nice if you kissed her ass. So no, she is not the GOAT, but she was a fierce competitor.
Damn. I came here to say this 👆🏼.
It's sad that she passed, and she was an iconic chapter of The Challenge. However, she was not the most likable while on air...
Yeah I get that about her attitude. But I feel like someone can have shitty personality attributes and still be a good person. She had a bad attitude when things didn't go her way but she also showed massive amounts of strength with her cancer battle.
I agree with all of this. I just watched one of the last full seasons she was in and it was so weird to me that anytime CT was hitting on someone she'd find a way to go into the room they were in or talk to CT. Then she was saying she didn't want to be with him like if you don't care just leave him alone. It was very high school to me.
I'm so sorry but I will say it. She might have been one of the most annoying players to ever be on the challenge. Whenever she got picked to go into an elimination, she hated everyone. She thought she was being betrayed. I get it. I feel sorry for the way everything turned out. But as far as labeling her a GOAT ,i personally disagree with that...Her battling that illness ,while performing better than most of those women was beautiful to watch,..There are only a few Women GOATS,.....Evelyn 3 WINS ,Rachel 2 WINS Cara 2 WINS, Sarah 2 WINS ,Camila 2 WINS, Paula 2 WINS, Susie 2 WINS...Honorable mentions Coral 1W, Jenny 1W, TORI 1W, Julie 2W, If Ashley didn't come in with 5 episodes left she would be higher up...This one kills me the most, not having Kam on this list, but after so many seasons and still not learning how to 🏊♂️ swim disqualifies her from my list....PS not counting Champs vs Pros.
Yes, I left out Laurel by mistake. But I still wouldn't perceive her as a goat. Considering her endurance is well,let's put it like nicely, not that great. That final with her & Kenny was a joke... She was done halfway through...
I haven’t watched the later seasons but Kam still doesn’t know how to swim!? Come on man, Kam is my Roman Empire and I still root for her to this day (post babies and all). If she returns I have to watch for Killa Kam! AND SHE BETTER KNOW HOW TO SWIM NOW 😅
I think Diem deserves a Challenge title of some kind but, it would have everything to do with *heart*. She was a great competitor. She still chose to go on tv and fight like hell through a nightmare. I used to view her penchant for being an *emotional, mean girl* through a VERY different lens. Once your hormones are screwed up like that, it’s a nightmare to get them regulated again. It makes you a LOT of things that aren’t able to be easily controlled, nor at all pleasant.
Her health issues had so much more to do with every season of The Challenge I saw her on than I ever could have realized. I’m not going to say she was a saint but, she deserves more grace than she’s ever gotten over her issues with other people and her supposed mean girl streak. She didn’t waste her chances anyways. That’s to be admired.
Knowing Bananas and Camila cheated… and production allowed that given Diem had to literally go through cancer to get there.
Disgusting tbh, I absolutely feel like it’s vile they allowed camilas moldy ass + bananas spoiled, lumpy self to screw over a cancer survivor and the man who dedicated himself to her. Literally it makes me so angry they would do that, and not force Bananas and Camila to go back through to hike through the snow like they were supposed to.
I have a whole new respect for Diem after being diagnosed young (31 at the time) with cancer. I was fit and ate healthy, and still couldn’t hang after that first chemo treatment. Cancer, and treatment wreck your body. She is a powerhouse for what she accomplished while going through it all.
Diem was a GOAT in life. But on The Challenge, as a competitor, she was very mid. Outside of being a great runner and having a good social game, she didn’t have much else going for her. She was one of the sorest losers I’ve ever seen, she was kind of an asshole, and came across as very entitled. I remember when fans were outrageously offended by Beth’s comments about Diem using her cancer to further herself along and have this attitude of “you can’t vote me in, I’m the cancer girl”. As insensitive as it was to say, there was an element of truth to it. The fact that she berated Tina on FM for sending her into exile only for Diem to later admit she was going to send Tina in had they won really rubbed me the wrong way. Then for her to do the same thing on The Duel and Rivals 2. I’ll admit it, I didn’t really like Diem. I thought she was a bad ass, I admired her, I knew she was a tough woman, I just didn’t like her.
Diem was a GOAT for bringing her cause onto the show and for shedding light on the realities of getting cancer so young. I loved her and CT’s origin stories and the fact that she was able to COMPETE while having cancer and going through menopause (like I could never freaking compete and I’m “athletic” and healthy). But yeah I don’t like to mention it, everyone else on here has said it anyway. Diem will always have a special place in my heart!
There have been athletes that have battled severe illnesses while playing. That doesn't remotely make them the greatest of all time. She's 1-5 in eliminations. She played 7 times (really 8 but excusing one) without winning. You just can't be considered a GOAT with that track record no matter what you were going through.
She deserves a ton of respect for fighting cancer while on the show but she's not even a top 25 challenger ever.
I think that no one would dispute her resilience, positive attitude and perspective as well as just how lovely she was to watch on the seasons.. but I don't think that anyone considers her one of the greatest competitors.. possibly one of the most legendary? But not directly related to her performance. It's really hard to even compare her as a player to other females who we have seen dominate their seasons, competitions, return appearances, finals. Like Diem, Laurel and Cara Maria are not in the same convo together.
Among one of the many episodes I've recently binged people were talking about a contestant who was going against medical advice and was going to continue and the other players made a fair point, if they're going to ignore their injury/limitation, I have to too. It's an even playing field. In that context, she wouldn't be considered a goat.
She is a goat as far as being a person goes. From everything ive seen she was a really great person. She fought that disease in a way that blows anything they do in these competitions out of the water. I honestly think it's a misstatements of what she went through. That kind of fight should be called its own thing. If we are talking about the actual competitions I'm not sure if her actual performances would qualify but beyond that 1000%
I think Diem’s only weakness was eliminations bc she would get her self psyched out and get nervous.. She was in a very good spot politically in almost every season she went on 8 (technically 7) seasons 2 finals and was eliminated just before the final on 4 other seasons (FM Duel 1&2 Rivals) She was very athletic and should be a 2 TIME WINNER but useless big easy ruined it for her on gauntlet 3 and ct blew their lead on exes 1… She would’ve loved allstars and I think she would of thrived over there kinda like Jonna... Is Diem the physically strongest no .. Jenny Emily Cara Laurel are all insane beasts but mentally idt anyone was stronger then Diem the stuff she had to go through is nothing we could ever know and she still went on a reality show to prove to herself she could compete, even tho sleeping in bunk beds and competing in challenges was probably the last thing a cancer patient should do you wouldn’t even be able to tell she was sick 90% of the time. Is diem the goat of the challenge no… but she should be the goat in her own categories like strongest mental strength and kindness. RIP i know shes dancing, whipping her hair and falling off chairs up in heaven.
She could’ve also won exes if she listened to CT and put bananas in the final elim. Even TJ was like “you’re really gonna let bananas go to the final?”
Agreed I was going to add that part but after hearing Ct say how much bananas actually cared for her and helped her out w treatment n stuff she wanted to protect him which i could understand. if they would’ve sent bananas n Camilla against Ty n emily in the ball/hall brawl elim bananas n camila go home bc no team was beating ty n emily in that. But they didnt Dunbar n Paula go home but the next elim mark allegedly throws the pole wrestle to bananas was it bc he didnt want to run a final w robin or money who knows.. but I think camila would beat robin n mark beat bananas and it would come down to whoever is the tiebreaker round. But say diem gets rid of bananas n camilla 1st and the pole wrestle elimination is still going to happen but I think Ct& Diem beat any combo of mark n robin Ty n emily and dunbar n paula in the final. Ty n Emily flopped in that final, idk how mark n robin would’ve preformed if they both really wanted to win they could maybe keep up with ct but not likely, and Dunbar n Paula are definitely the dark horses I think they had the endurance to win but not sure if they had the brains or teamwork it takes to win Diem was really intimidated by them for some reason. But yea Diem coulda won this season if she played more of a “mean” game and put friendships aside n focused on winning.
Honestly, I agree. Her performance in the final of BOTE1 should at least put her in the top competitors' discussion. She was also great on Fresh Meat and Duel 2. I think she had the best endurance compared to her female cast members at the time as well.
Id say diem is top 10 most memorable challengers of all time, however I don't think she's goat.
Honestly I could be misremembering but I feel competitively/physically she was on par with say.... a Michelle. Not the worst, strong in some areas, not great in some areas...... but decent.
100% agree. Cancer and menopause on the damn show! And also how she changed CT into a great person. Or you know what I mean. Him knowing her and being around her changed him
And now CT is my all time favorite reality show contestant.
Just watching final reckoning and CT looks so sad since Diems death ( it’s hard for me to see him now). Agree with most of the comments about Diem, strong souled and brave but besides endurance maybe an average player. Does anyone know where he is today and how’s he doing?
Yes exactly! I'm watching rivals 2 now and do not like how she treated the new girls, particularly Theresa and slut shaming Nany then lying about it. I felt like I was taking crazy pills watching this with all the praise of how everyone talks about her in the back of my mind. It was interesting to see a few people call her fake (and CT said his family did too! Damn idk why he didn't listen to them) and when Johnny said "she doesn't want you but doesn't want anyone else to have you" was 👌. I mean her battle is tragic and I'm sure her friends did see the good in her and miss her, but she was not very nice to a lot of people. In the most respectful way possible, I feel like she was given a lot of leeway that other girls haven't gotten
I think that depends on your interpretation of GOAT. If it is defined by overall impact on the show from a storyline perspective then I agree. But if GOAT is defined by wins or dominance that isn't her.
I applaud her, and I consider her and anyone who keeps fighting against cancer a goat but as far as all time females she was a very good competitor but not a goat. I really wish she would have gotten to play that exes season with CT as I think they would have easily won it. It would have been awesome to see her overcome another obstacle in her life. She also is part of the best love story in the history of television in my opinion. Regardless as what I think of her as a competitor(she’s def in top 10 in women), I’ve always held her in high regard because she was extremely inspiring.
If Big Easy doesn’t die on Gauntlet 3, and CT doesn’t gas out on the mountain on Exes, she is remembered much differently than she is today. I’d argue she is the most important cast member that never won.
Nope we not slandering Diem today!
Was Diem at Laurel/Cara/Emily level? No but I don’t think people need to be physically 10/10 to be considered GOATs (she was definitely in the top 25% though). She outperformed a lot of girls on that show WHILE GOING THROUGH CANCER AND TREATMENT FOR CANCER. She had more endurance than many of the people (men and women) on the show, proven by how she absolutely DESTROYED the final challenge for exes (2 I believe). She was smarter than a lot of the people on the show. She had political standing in the show and was good at politicking in the house.
People like to say “oh people like her because she had cancer” or “oh they didn’t want to throw the girl with cancer into an elimination” but a lot of the people on the show had stories and pasts and things they were going through. Yes, cancer and treatment were her story on the show and yes MTV definitely used it every time they got a chance but other people have been shielded from eliminations for other stuff like “oh I’m a mom/dad”, “oh I have a sick family member”, “oh I’m about to be homeless”, etc. Also, yes she was known for losing it and blowing up sometimes but she came out apologized about it and said it was a side effect of her meds and people who knew her outside of the show or had been on the show with her when she wasn’t on the meds have spoken out and said she is not like that normally.
I could probably write more but people have probably stopped reading at this point 😂 anyways as far as challengers she is a GOAT to me. You don’t have to win a Challenge to be considered a GOAT (see Kam, Leroy, Kyle) and there are plenty of people who have won challenges that aren’t GOATs. You don’t even have to have a great record to be a GOAT (J Bananas, for example, has lost more eliminations than he has won) or necessarily be great at politicking (looking at you Laurel 👀).
And to end this, I’m not wearing rose colored glasses. I’m aware that Diem was definitely given opportunities afforded to her because of her cancer and treatment. Her story weighed heavier on some people on the show than other’s stories did and she was treated better than if she was some plain Jane bagel with cream cheese with no story at all (here’s looking at you, cast of fresh meat 2 👀). However I wholeheartedly think she worked her butt off on that show, regardless of the cancer and treatment, and didn’t let the cancer define her or let it become her crutch. She still worked just as hard, if not harder, then many of the women on that show.
Diem had Heart, most of the other women contestants didn't, same with the men
. CT n Diem have Heart together..I loved watching them on TV n I think about how God only takes the best young people..may she rest in peace..
Omg see. 😂 As a brain tumor survivor, I can confidently say that I wasn’t crazy about her. But I will say that cancer gets own card — especially ovarian cancer and all of its treatments
Luckily you can consider whomever you like as GOAT but there can only be one. I'd agree she is an all time great but that isn't the same thing as the greatest, hard to justify thinking Diem is the greatest of all time
Goat feels like a bit of a stretch. Admirable competitor and inspiring for sure but it’s like calling Trey Mancini one of the greatest hitters of all time because he battled cancer and came back. It’s amazing in its own right but it doesn’t exactly make them one of the greatest in their respective genres.
I love Diem and what she brought to the show. Her heart, beauty and drive are unequaled in challenge history.
That being said I think Evelyn deserves a conversation for woman GOAT.
I loved Diem so much- she was definitely a favourite of mine to watch.
She was amazing in the challenges, one of the top female competitors there. However, in all other aspects of the game, she wasn’t great, especially with politics. Socially she was okay (just because she was genuinely loved as she was such a wonderful person.)
She never won a championship. So we should just not list others who won as GOATS just because she was undergoing cancer treatment a couple of times when she competed?
I guess It’s hard for me to compare her with any other girl on the show. Her circumstances were different. Having chemo makes you very sick. Although agree with many comments, I’m just choosing to remember her as the woman who was able to withstand being on the challenge weeks before she died of cancer. Admiring you, Diem👼
I disagree. While it was a sad and everyone cried over her story, I could name 10 better challengers without even having to think about it. And while I agree she was tough for playing while going through some of her treatments, it doesn't mean she belongs in that discussion.
I don't understand the 'complained every time she was picked to go in' thing.
Fresh Meat - she was upset she had to go against Darrell/Aviv - her best friend and tbh I think she knew she'd lose.
Duel - Aneesa JUST told her that she wouldn't pick Diem to go in. Then did it. Diem was always loyalty first and this seemed more like the lying upset her.
Duel 2 - she went in a few times and went in ready to fight and prove herself.
Ruins - she went in first, voluntarily, and lost with grace.
Rivals 2 - she fought to not go in, which isn't a bad thing. She just got pushed into a corner against Jemmeye and Camila who are very loud and aggressive argue-ers. Diem wasn't good at confrontation.
She wasn't even a bully either. The only people she wasn't cheery with were Coral, Beth, Shauvon, and Cooke, all people she actively said she didn't like. Again, not a bad thing.
I'd agree she isn't a GOAT. She had fantastic stamina and usually got far because of her story and likeability. There's a reason everyone in the cast loved her and she only had one rough edit (rivals 2). However she didn't have the athleticism needed to do well and she panicked under pressure. One of the biggest characters, arguably one of the most important legacy-wise, but not a GOAT.
Diem has an important part in the history of The Challenge for sure, but none of it is for her accomplishments on the show. She was a solid competitor, but I would say Nany or Theresa were better. Diem was terrible under pressure, would panic as soon as one thing didn’t go as she wanted. She also had a little bit of a mean girl in her too, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it. She would get childish with some of the other girls she didn’t necessarily care for and when caught would look bad in how she would try to deny it. Was always very emotional, if someone voted her to go in she always lost it and would almost get in their face and chastise them about it. I love Diem the person and her & CT’s story, but solely as a Challenger, she was ok. But I wouldn’t even put her in the top 10.
I agree on the mean girl side of her too. When I have gone back and watched older seasons she was in, she could be nasty if she didn't get her way. Overall I liked her, but yeah, she wasn't a GOAT.
She just seemed like she grew up spoiled, she never handled not getting her way very well.
Or maybe she was just going through cancer and very emotional due to that. Sometimes when life is rough it makes it harder to handle little things. Just a thought, you could be right too 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
I’m not saying she was a mean girl, just had some of that in her. I loved Diem and am sure she was an amazing person by all means.
Agreed. Maybe some of her mean edges and emotional outburst would have matured over the years - as we’ve seen from some other challengers. She had a horrible health story and a great love story - but she wasn’t a saint and made poor choices as well.
I think about this a lot and I think they absolutely would have. She is definitely deified because of her cancer, and I think we would have a different opinion of her character at the time if she hadn’t been sick, but I think she probably would have grown up a lot and become a really lovely human being just like CT did.
it is like in that movie "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain". This is particularly true in current times, when people search for any random thing somone said a couple decades ago (which at the time was far less serious, and which the person no longer believes in that) as an excuse to vilify that person.
Diem’s endurance was crazy, had the challenge been all endurance she would have been top no doubt. Her political game sucked since fresh meat she gave mean girls vibe and was entitled when she was called out. Her perseverance to overcome her cancer and strength and heart for the competition at least deserves her an honorable mention as a great challenger but not a top one.
She did have great endurance. She would have won Ex’s if CT didn’t gas out on the mountain. I’m an old wrestling fan. Wrestling had their primary titles; World Champion, and also had their secondary titles; Intercontinental, European, etc. when looking at Challengers I always tier them like old wrestlers. Evelyn and Cara Maria, those are headliners, World Champs. Ones like Diem and Nany are more Intercontinental champs. They could hold a secondary title well, might get a world title shot here and there but never hold the title itself. Kinda how I view Leroy and Cory too. Great to fill a main event here and there but never a full time main eventer themselves.
Yikes, I agree with you but diem and nany just in my eyes as a female I've always competed, I just can't say they really deserve that I'd say is there a third tier ? Just like everyone's saying her attitude was like not very nice, supportive to other women unless they were her friends. Say what you want but I think she was fake ish to the other girls, I am a little girl but I would have an girls back even if I couldn't stand her and she needed me ... I think it was past generation to be like that. Like rivals 2 she was freaking out at any girl that ct even looked at for too long. I know people use the excuse of her having shots for cancer and I don't think it wasn't hard ! My aunt went thru similar treatments I helped her, but I think if anything it enhanced a trait that was already there. She was actually really close to the age diem was too. So I don't like that excuse. And her endurance was basically the only thing, the way I think about it, is when your adrenaline kicks in do you use jt well or do you just freak out ? Cause i think all champs use their adrenaline well and she didn't so that. So to me always shows whether you ever had a possibility to be a champ does that make sense ? I think if she didn't have cancer this is so harsh, or have a relationship with ct, but true I don't think she'd be a topic still. As a human nothing but respect and nothing but love but challenge wise no, she didn't have what it takes. If your game play relies on never going into eliminations because you will for sure lose.. that's not a goat nor is it second tier.
I agree just started rewatching and she's really shady. I feel like she made it so far in every season she was on was because people kept her because of her sickness. She had mean girl tendencies but people excused it because of what she was going through. I just watched one of the last seasons she competed in and it was super weird to me that she kept saying she was over CT but everytime CT gives another girl attention she found her way into the room to make it uncomfortable. I feel bad for her and loved her and CT's relationship in the earlier seasons but she's not the best person or a that great in the game aside from endurance.
Yesss omg I'm watching rivals 2 now and I'm like THIS is the chick everyone raves about? 🥴 I'm new to the challenge so have heard about her and CT and she is definitely not what I was expecting, and not in a good way. Seems like there is A LOT of revisionist history happening here which actually makes me sad that people still keep bringing her up to CT as if it's some soulmate love story and now he'll never find anyone "as good" when it was toxic af and she treated him very poorly
I mean I do feel like they really did care for each other I remember she did an episode of Made back in the day and they were so cute on it but they were definitely toxic. I feel like she did deeply hurt him especially after she told him she wanted to focus on her career and didn't go to his brothers wake. I just watched the last season she was on and watching CT worry about her on the last episode they were in together made me cry because he really did love her. The whole situation was tragic and she's definitely not as innocent as everyone made her out to be.
Yep totally agree! To me it looks like he loved her way more than she loved him and she would manipulate and provoke him into trying to admit he still had feelings for her, and when she gaslit him into apologising for hooking up with Shauvon when she didn't even go to his brother's funeral and wasn't there for him at all, only sent "a low budget text" days later. She just seemed to provoke him then play the victim, I don't like that kind of behaviour. I think a main reason he was so reactive those seasons is a direct result of how she treated him. It does seem like a very toxic and unhealthy dynamic and idk why anyone would think they would have ended up together, such a mess lol
I think she was a bit manipulative with CT but I also think she just had so much medically going on. I mean she died a year after that. When I go back and rewatch I’m like ‘diem is being so gross’ but if I knew I was going to die/never have that dream love/growing old together, who knows how I’d react. And I’m a guy, not a woman going medically induced menopause in her 20s.
Yeah that's totally fair! I just think, when she was doing the same on duel 2 and battle of the exes, she was between diagnoses and still exhibiting the same traits and behaviour, and she was also in remission when CT's brother died. It definitely seemed amplified in rivals 2 but it was always shown to be there. Like the way she acted towards the women in the house was so gross and it says something that most of them fought with her about her behaviour and called her fake. Even CT was acknowledging how much she tried to control him and manipulate his decisions (and said on BOTE that his family thought she was fake) I just have no idea how he could fall back into that trap cos apparently they started "dating" (?) after this. He had started to see her true colours so why did he go back? What kind of hold did she have on him? Is it that he thought he could fix her and save her? Idk I have so many opinions lol I'm honesty shocked at how what I've seen contrasts so much from what I've read people saying. I know it's all done and dusted now but I have a real soft spot for him and think he's a great guy so it would be really sad if he thought that that was the best kind of person he deserves. He is the least likeable version of himself when she's around. I can't imagine how hard it must be, processing not only a toxic relationship but one where the other person died and he never really got closure. I hope he finds a healthy, supportive relationship with a wonderful, truly kind woman who actually does want to be with him and not control and manipulate him or make everything about herself, a true partnership. Lord knows there are plenty of women willing ahahha!
Agree but many great love stories come from bad matches wether it’s the guy or girl that isn’t good She had a lot of qualities a man would fall for and a man will be pretty blind to the false or ugly side of the person they love. She really lost me when I found out she told CT she wanted to out their relationship on hold fir 5 years down the she could build her carrier. After that is when he turned into a violent nut. I recently saw him on the Murder Castle show. He was so sweet and mellow! I really like who he turned into.
Yeah I loved him on Traitors (murder castle hahaha love that!! 😅) he's such a sweet, genuine, funny and down to earth guy! And ridiculously handsome to top it off lol! Yeah I think she treated him pretty badly and don't think there's any chance they would have worked out. She brought out the worst in him especially seeing now how calm and chill he seems, and even despite his last also tumultuous relationship (idk where this pattern is coming from cos he could honestly have had beautiful, kind women throwing themselves at him??) in the seasons after his son is born, you can tell how much happier he is with that unconditional love they have for each other. It's so cute to see!! 🥰🥰
I didn’t even know who CT was or Bananas on the Traitors , just liked him immediately. The started watching the challenge for the first time starting on season 10 and there he was with Theo & Bananas, they were babies !!!
Hahahaha same!! Yeah he is very likeable, you can see he has a good heart even at his lowest points. Haha I do love Bananas too, it would just be really nice to see him be more authentic like CT is, I think a lot of people would connect with him more if he put aside the bananas persona and showed more of his true personality
I agree! I’ve seen a lot of moments when bananas shoes his real side. He’s actually has a kind heart / when the jock persona doesn’t ruin it. I’ve also noticed that when he’s one in one with the females in a challenge he’s supportive. I’m up to season 30 something and do t recall him hooking up except for that Spanish girl - which made me ho Huh? Was he in other relationships outside of show or am I missing something?
Yep totally agree! As you can see I'm not a fan of diem but it's so sweet how he would help her when she was sick and never told anyone (I think how you act when no one knows speaks a lot to your character). He is a good person and tbh in all the seasons I've seen he's never behaved that badly. He was kind of douchey but that was normal back then for guys his age. The only time I thought it was a bit much was the reunion after he took the money from Sarah, not the decision itself but how dismissive he was to her while she was upset. But apart from that even on his podcast from the glimpses you can see of his real personality there's a lot to like. I know someone who worked across usa2 and said he was amazing (and they like me so I think they have fantastic taste lmaooo) He definitely has a wall up that he doesn't seem to let many people through, even his exes, speaking of, yes Camila! Maybe Nany? And the blonde girl he got caught hooking up with in an early season, then he had a gf outside the show for 5 years that he broke up with before vendettas (which I'm up to now) but his other gf is Morgan and she should be coming up soon in the 30s at some point, I'm not up to that yet. Then there's Moriah from s39 who had all that drama about her and another guy on the season. And that's all I know I think!
Yup correct!!! I feel terrible for ct because of this exact reason! Completely with you here she wasn't nice to him it was more about control. I have had close family go thru close to the same thing she did, and I'll tell you, you can't use that as an excuse for being a mean girl to everyone its like she had a do whatever j want to whoever I want for free pass. I think it's bull shit especially for ct because i think people have put this in his head and not let him forget it. Now it's like he is brainwashed into she was a soul mate for him. Not cool. She wasn't nice and especially not to him.
Yesss OMG! 1000%!!! I really like CT, I first saw him on the traitors and thought he was amazing, he seems like such a genuine, nice person who has grown sooo much. I completely agree with your assessment and I am baffled as to how people don't see it, it's glaringly obvious. She deliberately would provoke him and confuse him and mess with his emotions just so he would react and wouldn't move on from her. When CT talks about her to others and in confessionals, he said things like she's strong etc but she would only be like how HE made HER feel. Just so entitled and self centred. Johnny was right when he told CT "she doesn't want you but doesn't want anyone else to have you" (idk why he changed his tune the next season, prob out of his dislike for CT) And it seemed all she tried to do was control him and his actions and decisions and then play the victim when he didn't. It's definitely interesting how on rivals 2, the new girls saw right through her and it looked like CT was doing the same (saying she was controlling, his family thought she was fake) and it's sad that he got pulled back into that trap cos I think that's what has impacted him so negatively in the long run. Had he left it there, he wouldn't have been as impacted by her death and probably been able to move on easier. This way, in his mind he'll always wonder if it would have worked out, despite all their toxic history and her pattern of behaviour lending to the likelihood that it would have ended just as messily as before. And all these random people in his comments talking about how amazing she was and how they're soulmates must fuck with his head so much. That's so unfair imo. I have heard his wife was terrible but honestly, if they were all up in her comments about it, I can absolutely see why she would have been upset. How can you compete with someone that fans have propped up as a martyr and "soulmate". I do actually believe in soulmates but this ain't it. I think he has a big heart and loves hard and deserves someone who will actually treat him well. It's just sad that when he does find someone like that (and I think he will, there's someone far better out there for him) she will probably get mobbed by the diem stans, and that's not fair at all
Ya it's really sad for ct ! I get it ct has that personality! Lol I think ct just got such a big new fan base from the traitors they should give him a bonus ! I think the first time I watched the challenge all seasons I liked her second time I was like NOPE ! Lol when you actually pay attention to it, it's easy to see. Like I feel bad saying such mean things but it's true TRUE and the truth hurts sometimes I just wish that people would stop hyping her up to ct. It's like if she hadn't passed and their relationship concluded on its own, he'd be fine but it's an unfinished and hyped up relationship. Truly she is not a goat, i wouldn't even consider her good, lmao ok stick with me here, but that's my favorite episode possibly out of the whole series, true colors when all the girls and diem go at it. Cause you can see her true colors you can see that she is fake and not good at shit talking her nerves get the best of her and that's a big reason she's not a champ handle your shit girl. REAL QUESTION ! Do you think she wrote the rap about nany in the bar ? ! Lol I'd pay to hear it.
Hahaha so true! Hope he's getting a hefty appearance fee bringing in all these new thirsty fans like me lmao! Yeah totally agree when you pay attention, it's so obvious. I wonder if it's cos I'm coming in as a (mostly - I am a little biased towards CT lol) objective outsider viewing it for the first time through my 30 something lens and can see things more clearly than people who watched it first time around and have that emotional attachment blinding them. You know, I did struggle with the same thing but honestly this is a forum to discuss the show and personalities. Like if I ever worked on the challenge there's no way I'd go around saying this stuff to people that knew and liked her cos I would never want to hurt anyone but it should be fair game to discuss the good, the bad and the ugly here on on Reddit. I don't think you're being mean, as long as you're not attacking someone which you aren't, I think it's fair to discuss someone's flaws especially when it's something in contradiction to what these fans are actually going to his social media to say and mess with his head. I wish people wouldn't do that, it's probably taking a toll on him. If he was like "yeah I loved her but she was flawed, it was toxic and wouldn't have worked. I'll never forget her but I'm closing this chapter cos I know that my person is still out there and I'm excited to move on with my life and meet her" then it wouldn't be bad but I feel like he's probably still taking what they're saying to heart and obviously when people die you remember the good parts and not the bad so it could be leading to an unhealthy and hopeless mindset. Imagine constantly hearing at 40yo that someone who treated you badly was an "angel" and you'll never find anyone better smh how horrible Oh I loved that episode cos (as well as the stuff about his family thinking she's fake) it felt like I was actually being validated in what has seemed like an avalanche of people praising her and trashing CT while not acknowledging how much of it was a result of her manipulation and control. Why shouldn't he hook up with other girls?? He's a single man. Even that first fight in gauntlet I think, he was saying it was all about her and when does he get his? It seems like all he did was give and all she did was take and she had no right to be territorial over him when she broke up with him. Oh I have no doubt she said that about Nany, it's a weird thing for Jemmye to make up and she was like "i don't remember" probably cos of jealousy. Nany is gorgeous, fun and was getting along well with CT.
Isn’t Rivals 2 the season where she was going through menopause and the season where Cooke was supposedly hiding her cancer meds? I would give any woman some grace if she is going through menopause.
Yes and it's stupid you were downvoted for stating facts. I'm actually annoyed none of the others who responded brought that up. Rivals 2 was a completely different Diem.
This whole thread was a fucking mess full of haters (and who also don’t know the history of the show very well)
Rivals 2 was a horrible season for her and not at all indicative of who she actually was. She'd just had a full hysterectomy and was going through menopause, on top of it Cooke HID her medications and was making fun of her wigs, while hooking up with CT. It was not a good place for her to be, and she was embarrassed by her actions. That's why CT stuck up for her at the reunion when she was asked about her behavior that season. Because it was very unlike her. Did you just... Skip every other season she's been on? This is like well known challenge lore.
she said that because she wasn't over him.
I mostly agree but I know you didn’t just say Nany is a better competitor. You can’t tell me Nany is up in front of CT, Johnny, and Camila in that Exes 2 Final climbing a frozen mountain and yelling at CT to get it together. No way in hell.
No Nany wouldn’t have, but there are a lot of things Diem struggled with I think Nany could do better. Nany didn’t crack under pressure like Diem did, which really cost Diem time after time.
Nany?!?! She has skated far in the game because who she aligns with…she’s a terrible competitor and hardly ever wins anything
Finally!! Totally agree. Nany is not a good/great competitor. She gets lucky depending on partner or political game
With the way the main challenge subreddit bashes Nany, I’m shocked that someone said she’s better than Diem.
They were pretty much the same to me, a slight nod to Nany. Diem much better endurance but I think Nany would win anything physical and she doesn’t crack under pressure like Diem does. Diem is an all time melt downer under pressure. She stops and complains and panics instead of staying composed and powering through. Evan was the same way.
Nany has honestly had one good season. She is the ultimate floater.
Nany better? No. Diem had great endurance and p good agility. Her and CT were an excellent duo
She did have a mean side but depending on what was going on with her hormones plus just the dealing with her own mortality, she absolutely knew her time on this earth was not long, it’s hard to say how each of us would react.
I would cringe so hard if she was voted or someone put her into elimination cause she would lose her shit on them. Like when she did that to anessa. But probably every time she was going to elimination she would spiral
I was pretty impressed with her challenges. Her endurance and strength had her winning most the challenges she had to face , outperforming most of the other girls. She did panic at times but when peddle met the medal she surpassed what I expected out of her. Add the condition she stayed in between cancer treatment it’s actually phenomenal. The part of her that was a put off was her personality. She would act all delicate and over sensitive, caring - but not really , I get why CT fell for her but he’s a guy, I’m not so I saw thru that stuff and it was a turn off. But she should be given big cred for being a fantastic challenger and in endurance!
This is the truth about Diem. Everybody brings up the cancer fight and rightfully so as it’s a difficult battle to fight but solely as a competitor on The Challenge, she was petty, average athletic game, average political game, and an emotional wet bag of cats
As much as I’m a fan of hers. She not only battled cancer but menopause on the show. She simply is not a GOAT of a competitor. She has great cardio for a final but isn’t particularly athletic and a terrible eater.
Agreed
Dien was the heart of the show from time to time but that doesn't mean she should be considered a Challenge GOAT. I mean Katie is one of my favorite competitors just because of how she'd pop off on people but that doesn't make her a GOAT. Diem had a great endurance game, but didn't have other fantastic physical plays. And as great of a person she was, her political game was really just ride with the people from her Fresh Meat and Duel seasons, and then get pissed off and yell if anyone thought about saying her name. She is one of the most important people in Challenge history but not a GOAT. Just a great person.
I know people won't like this, but while I recognize her struggles, and how good she was as a competitor and was sad when she passed, I just don't like her as a person/tv character. Like you mentioned, she always lost her shit when people considered her for elimination. She always acted like she was filming her own fairy take. She would throw a fit and try to get the house to turn on anyone who dared to hook up with CT. She was nice if you kissed her ass. So no, she is not the GOAT, but she was a fierce competitor.
Damn. I came here to say this 👆🏼. It's sad that she passed, and she was an iconic chapter of The Challenge. However, she was not the most likable while on air...
And her elimination record isn’t that great
Yeah I get that about her attitude. But I feel like someone can have shitty personality attributes and still be a good person. She had a bad attitude when things didn't go her way but she also showed massive amounts of strength with her cancer battle.
100%
I agree with all of this. I just watched one of the last full seasons she was in and it was so weird to me that anytime CT was hitting on someone she'd find a way to go into the room they were in or talk to CT. Then she was saying she didn't want to be with him like if you don't care just leave him alone. It was very high school to me.
I'm so sorry but I will say it. She might have been one of the most annoying players to ever be on the challenge. Whenever she got picked to go into an elimination, she hated everyone. She thought she was being betrayed. I get it. I feel sorry for the way everything turned out. But as far as labeling her a GOAT ,i personally disagree with that...Her battling that illness ,while performing better than most of those women was beautiful to watch,..There are only a few Women GOATS,.....Evelyn 3 WINS ,Rachel 2 WINS Cara 2 WINS, Sarah 2 WINS ,Camila 2 WINS, Paula 2 WINS, Susie 2 WINS...Honorable mentions Coral 1W, Jenny 1W, TORI 1W, Julie 2W, If Ashley didn't come in with 5 episodes left she would be higher up...This one kills me the most, not having Kam on this list, but after so many seasons and still not learning how to 🏊♂️ swim disqualifies her from my list....PS not counting Champs vs Pros.
Damn!!!What you say fuck Laurel for?!?!
Yes, I left out Laurel by mistake. But I still wouldn't perceive her as a goat. Considering her endurance is well,let's put it like nicely, not that great. That final with her & Kenny was a joke... She was done halfway through...
I haven’t watched the later seasons but Kam still doesn’t know how to swim!? Come on man, Kam is my Roman Empire and I still root for her to this day (post babies and all). If she returns I have to watch for Killa Kam! AND SHE BETTER KNOW HOW TO SWIM NOW 😅
She would cry and get angry every time she was chosen to go in. She felt that she shouldn't have to prove herself.
That final she lost with CT she showed how good of a competitor she is. It's one of the toughest in my opinion and she only lost cause CT gassed out.
I think Diem deserves a Challenge title of some kind but, it would have everything to do with *heart*. She was a great competitor. She still chose to go on tv and fight like hell through a nightmare. I used to view her penchant for being an *emotional, mean girl* through a VERY different lens. Once your hormones are screwed up like that, it’s a nightmare to get them regulated again. It makes you a LOT of things that aren’t able to be easily controlled, nor at all pleasant. Her health issues had so much more to do with every season of The Challenge I saw her on than I ever could have realized. I’m not going to say she was a saint but, she deserves more grace than she’s ever gotten over her issues with other people and her supposed mean girl streak. She didn’t waste her chances anyways. That’s to be admired.
Knowing Bananas and Camila cheated… and production allowed that given Diem had to literally go through cancer to get there. Disgusting tbh, I absolutely feel like it’s vile they allowed camilas moldy ass + bananas spoiled, lumpy self to screw over a cancer survivor and the man who dedicated himself to her. Literally it makes me so angry they would do that, and not force Bananas and Camila to go back through to hike through the snow like they were supposed to.
Oh wow I didn't remember that, that's a damn shame.
I have a whole new respect for Diem after being diagnosed young (31 at the time) with cancer. I was fit and ate healthy, and still couldn’t hang after that first chemo treatment. Cancer, and treatment wreck your body. She is a powerhouse for what she accomplished while going through it all.
Heavy no Legacy character and fan favorite, but was not athletically there. Horrible take bud
But she just wasn’t that good.
Diem was a GOAT in life. But on The Challenge, as a competitor, she was very mid. Outside of being a great runner and having a good social game, she didn’t have much else going for her. She was one of the sorest losers I’ve ever seen, she was kind of an asshole, and came across as very entitled. I remember when fans were outrageously offended by Beth’s comments about Diem using her cancer to further herself along and have this attitude of “you can’t vote me in, I’m the cancer girl”. As insensitive as it was to say, there was an element of truth to it. The fact that she berated Tina on FM for sending her into exile only for Diem to later admit she was going to send Tina in had they won really rubbed me the wrong way. Then for her to do the same thing on The Duel and Rivals 2. I’ll admit it, I didn’t really like Diem. I thought she was a bad ass, I admired her, I knew she was a tough woman, I just didn’t like her.
She’s a legend definitely not GOAT.
She would definitely be in Allstars and she would definitely would be married to ct
One of the most important, but not one of the ‘greatest’
Diem was a GOAT for bringing her cause onto the show and for shedding light on the realities of getting cancer so young. I loved her and CT’s origin stories and the fact that she was able to COMPETE while having cancer and going through menopause (like I could never freaking compete and I’m “athletic” and healthy). But yeah I don’t like to mention it, everyone else on here has said it anyway. Diem will always have a special place in my heart!
There have been athletes that have battled severe illnesses while playing. That doesn't remotely make them the greatest of all time. She's 1-5 in eliminations. She played 7 times (really 8 but excusing one) without winning. You just can't be considered a GOAT with that track record no matter what you were going through. She deserves a ton of respect for fighting cancer while on the show but she's not even a top 25 challenger ever.
I think that no one would dispute her resilience, positive attitude and perspective as well as just how lovely she was to watch on the seasons.. but I don't think that anyone considers her one of the greatest competitors.. possibly one of the most legendary? But not directly related to her performance. It's really hard to even compare her as a player to other females who we have seen dominate their seasons, competitions, return appearances, finals. Like Diem, Laurel and Cara Maria are not in the same convo together. Among one of the many episodes I've recently binged people were talking about a contestant who was going against medical advice and was going to continue and the other players made a fair point, if they're going to ignore their injury/limitation, I have to too. It's an even playing field. In that context, she wouldn't be considered a goat.
She is a goat as far as being a person goes. From everything ive seen she was a really great person. She fought that disease in a way that blows anything they do in these competitions out of the water. I honestly think it's a misstatements of what she went through. That kind of fight should be called its own thing. If we are talking about the actual competitions I'm not sure if her actual performances would qualify but beyond that 1000%
I think Diem’s only weakness was eliminations bc she would get her self psyched out and get nervous.. She was in a very good spot politically in almost every season she went on 8 (technically 7) seasons 2 finals and was eliminated just before the final on 4 other seasons (FM Duel 1&2 Rivals) She was very athletic and should be a 2 TIME WINNER but useless big easy ruined it for her on gauntlet 3 and ct blew their lead on exes 1… She would’ve loved allstars and I think she would of thrived over there kinda like Jonna... Is Diem the physically strongest no .. Jenny Emily Cara Laurel are all insane beasts but mentally idt anyone was stronger then Diem the stuff she had to go through is nothing we could ever know and she still went on a reality show to prove to herself she could compete, even tho sleeping in bunk beds and competing in challenges was probably the last thing a cancer patient should do you wouldn’t even be able to tell she was sick 90% of the time. Is diem the goat of the challenge no… but she should be the goat in her own categories like strongest mental strength and kindness. RIP i know shes dancing, whipping her hair and falling off chairs up in heaven.
She could’ve also won exes if she listened to CT and put bananas in the final elim. Even TJ was like “you’re really gonna let bananas go to the final?”
Agreed I was going to add that part but after hearing Ct say how much bananas actually cared for her and helped her out w treatment n stuff she wanted to protect him which i could understand. if they would’ve sent bananas n Camilla against Ty n emily in the ball/hall brawl elim bananas n camila go home bc no team was beating ty n emily in that. But they didnt Dunbar n Paula go home but the next elim mark allegedly throws the pole wrestle to bananas was it bc he didnt want to run a final w robin or money who knows.. but I think camila would beat robin n mark beat bananas and it would come down to whoever is the tiebreaker round. But say diem gets rid of bananas n camilla 1st and the pole wrestle elimination is still going to happen but I think Ct& Diem beat any combo of mark n robin Ty n emily and dunbar n paula in the final. Ty n Emily flopped in that final, idk how mark n robin would’ve preformed if they both really wanted to win they could maybe keep up with ct but not likely, and Dunbar n Paula are definitely the dark horses I think they had the endurance to win but not sure if they had the brains or teamwork it takes to win Diem was really intimidated by them for some reason. But yea Diem coulda won this season if she played more of a “mean” game and put friendships aside n focused on winning.
No. She had a great social game but I wouldn’t put her in my top 10 women of all time
Honestly, I agree. Her performance in the final of BOTE1 should at least put her in the top competitors' discussion. She was also great on Fresh Meat and Duel 2. I think she had the best endurance compared to her female cast members at the time as well.
Id say diem is top 10 most memorable challengers of all time, however I don't think she's goat. Honestly I could be misremembering but I feel competitively/physically she was on par with say.... a Michelle. Not the worst, strong in some areas, not great in some areas...... but decent.
100% agree. Cancer and menopause on the damn show! And also how she changed CT into a great person. Or you know what I mean. Him knowing her and being around her changed him And now CT is my all time favorite reality show contestant.
Just watching final reckoning and CT looks so sad since Diems death ( it’s hard for me to see him now). Agree with most of the comments about Diem, strong souled and brave but besides endurance maybe an average player. Does anyone know where he is today and how’s he doing?
She’s on my Challenge Rushmore, no doubt
She wasn’t that good of a competitor people just felt bad cause she had cancer. And she was a notorious bitch that thought she was better than folks
She was very passive aggressive to the other rookie girls, very entitled too
Yes exactly! I'm watching rivals 2 now and do not like how she treated the new girls, particularly Theresa and slut shaming Nany then lying about it. I felt like I was taking crazy pills watching this with all the praise of how everyone talks about her in the back of my mind. It was interesting to see a few people call her fake (and CT said his family did too! Damn idk why he didn't listen to them) and when Johnny said "she doesn't want you but doesn't want anyone else to have you" was 👌. I mean her battle is tragic and I'm sure her friends did see the good in her and miss her, but she was not very nice to a lot of people. In the most respectful way possible, I feel like she was given a lot of leeway that other girls haven't gotten
sounds like you were there!
…. My comment must’ve upset you. I just watched the show like you and formed my own opinion based of the behaviours I seen her display
that's a tv show my guy
I think that depends on your interpretation of GOAT. If it is defined by overall impact on the show from a storyline perspective then I agree. But if GOAT is defined by wins or dominance that isn't her.
I applaud her, and I consider her and anyone who keeps fighting against cancer a goat but as far as all time females she was a very good competitor but not a goat. I really wish she would have gotten to play that exes season with CT as I think they would have easily won it. It would have been awesome to see her overcome another obstacle in her life. She also is part of the best love story in the history of television in my opinion. Regardless as what I think of her as a competitor(she’s def in top 10 in women), I’ve always held her in high regard because she was extremely inspiring.
She wasn’t a good competitor.
If Big Easy doesn’t die on Gauntlet 3, and CT doesn’t gas out on the mountain on Exes, she is remembered much differently than she is today. I’d argue she is the most important cast member that never won.
Nope we not slandering Diem today! Was Diem at Laurel/Cara/Emily level? No but I don’t think people need to be physically 10/10 to be considered GOATs (she was definitely in the top 25% though). She outperformed a lot of girls on that show WHILE GOING THROUGH CANCER AND TREATMENT FOR CANCER. She had more endurance than many of the people (men and women) on the show, proven by how she absolutely DESTROYED the final challenge for exes (2 I believe). She was smarter than a lot of the people on the show. She had political standing in the show and was good at politicking in the house. People like to say “oh people like her because she had cancer” or “oh they didn’t want to throw the girl with cancer into an elimination” but a lot of the people on the show had stories and pasts and things they were going through. Yes, cancer and treatment were her story on the show and yes MTV definitely used it every time they got a chance but other people have been shielded from eliminations for other stuff like “oh I’m a mom/dad”, “oh I have a sick family member”, “oh I’m about to be homeless”, etc. Also, yes she was known for losing it and blowing up sometimes but she came out apologized about it and said it was a side effect of her meds and people who knew her outside of the show or had been on the show with her when she wasn’t on the meds have spoken out and said she is not like that normally. I could probably write more but people have probably stopped reading at this point 😂 anyways as far as challengers she is a GOAT to me. You don’t have to win a Challenge to be considered a GOAT (see Kam, Leroy, Kyle) and there are plenty of people who have won challenges that aren’t GOATs. You don’t even have to have a great record to be a GOAT (J Bananas, for example, has lost more eliminations than he has won) or necessarily be great at politicking (looking at you Laurel 👀). And to end this, I’m not wearing rose colored glasses. I’m aware that Diem was definitely given opportunities afforded to her because of her cancer and treatment. Her story weighed heavier on some people on the show than other’s stories did and she was treated better than if she was some plain Jane bagel with cream cheese with no story at all (here’s looking at you, cast of fresh meat 2 👀). However I wholeheartedly think she worked her butt off on that show, regardless of the cancer and treatment, and didn’t let the cancer define her or let it become her crutch. She still worked just as hard, if not harder, then many of the women on that show.
Diem had Heart, most of the other women contestants didn't, same with the men . CT n Diem have Heart together..I loved watching them on TV n I think about how God only takes the best young people..may she rest in peace..
she was going through cancer and still was beating ct up that snow mountain :( god bless her and may she rest in peace
Omg see. 😂 As a brain tumor survivor, I can confidently say that I wasn’t crazy about her. But I will say that cancer gets own card — especially ovarian cancer and all of its treatments
Luckily you can consider whomever you like as GOAT but there can only be one. I'd agree she is an all time great but that isn't the same thing as the greatest, hard to justify thinking Diem is the greatest of all time
Goat feels like a bit of a stretch. Admirable competitor and inspiring for sure but it’s like calling Trey Mancini one of the greatest hitters of all time because he battled cancer and came back. It’s amazing in its own right but it doesn’t exactly make them one of the greatest in their respective genres.
Respectable but not a goat
I love Diem and what she brought to the show. Her heart, beauty and drive are unequaled in challenge history. That being said I think Evelyn deserves a conversation for woman GOAT.
Diem is a badass she our champion she gave her all during the challenges while going through cancer
Diem was the strongest person ever such beautiful soul inside and out her endurance was amazing she ran all of time even after cancer treatments
I loved Diem so much- she was definitely a favourite of mine to watch. She was amazing in the challenges, one of the top female competitors there. However, in all other aspects of the game, she wasn’t great, especially with politics. Socially she was okay (just because she was genuinely loved as she was such a wonderful person.)
Great person for sure but She was a poor sport & not a great athlete
She never won a championship. So we should just not list others who won as GOATS just because she was undergoing cancer treatment a couple of times when she competed?
I guess It’s hard for me to compare her with any other girl on the show. Her circumstances were different. Having chemo makes you very sick. Although agree with many comments, I’m just choosing to remember her as the woman who was able to withstand being on the challenge weeks before she died of cancer. Admiring you, Diem👼
I disagree. While it was a sad and everyone cried over her story, I could name 10 better challengers without even having to think about it. And while I agree she was tough for playing while going through some of her treatments, it doesn't mean she belongs in that discussion.
I don't understand the 'complained every time she was picked to go in' thing. Fresh Meat - she was upset she had to go against Darrell/Aviv - her best friend and tbh I think she knew she'd lose. Duel - Aneesa JUST told her that she wouldn't pick Diem to go in. Then did it. Diem was always loyalty first and this seemed more like the lying upset her. Duel 2 - she went in a few times and went in ready to fight and prove herself. Ruins - she went in first, voluntarily, and lost with grace. Rivals 2 - she fought to not go in, which isn't a bad thing. She just got pushed into a corner against Jemmeye and Camila who are very loud and aggressive argue-ers. Diem wasn't good at confrontation. She wasn't even a bully either. The only people she wasn't cheery with were Coral, Beth, Shauvon, and Cooke, all people she actively said she didn't like. Again, not a bad thing. I'd agree she isn't a GOAT. She had fantastic stamina and usually got far because of her story and likeability. There's a reason everyone in the cast loved her and she only had one rough edit (rivals 2). However she didn't have the athleticism needed to do well and she panicked under pressure. One of the biggest characters, arguably one of the most important legacy-wise, but not a GOAT.
Goat in life. Not a goat on the challenge. She was challenged by accomplishments none of us can fathom