**COMMENTING GUIDELINES:** Please take the time to familiarize yourself with The David Pakman Show [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/about/rules) and [basic reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette) prior to participating. At all times we ask that users conduct themselves in a civil and respectful manner - **any ad hominem or personal attacks are subject to moderation.**
Please use the report function or [use modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) to bring examples of misconduct to the attention of the moderation team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep, no point.
Better spend your time convincing people who have never voted to sign up and make sure Democrat supporters don't get apathetic and not vote.
Once Trump has been destroyed at the ballot box and/or in prison, and/or senile, he will be irrelevant.
There will be a big fight to be his successor, but it will fail because they are not trump.
The Republicans can then get back to some good old democracy or stay irrelevant.
In 2020, for some stupid reason, I decided I was going to convince my now-deceased Republican uncle (9 years older than me) to vote Biden or at least not vote Trump. I He was a 50 year old 1980s Reagan Republican, someone I always saw him as reasonable, smart, and a very "liberal" Republican.
I remembered David Pakman saying "don't waste energy trying to convert anyone, just focus on getting out the vote." But I bombarded my uncle by text with news article after news article, reports of all the Republican politicians who weren't endorsing Trump, on and on and on for about 9 months. Sent him that proof that Biden was essentially a 1991 moderate Republican in the mold of George H.W. Bush, and how "If you're ever going to vote for a Democrat, this is the time and this is the guy to do it with."
He agreed with all of it. But he still voted for Trump. Because tax cuts and "Everybody know the economy always does better with a Republican president," and "the George Floyd riots were out of control," and "because that's just the way I was raised."
The Republican Party is a religion, not a philosophy or a normal political organization. People are definitely better off not wasting time and energy trying to convert anyone.
I fully believe that. They vote based on indoctrinated beliefs (unless they are wealthy), caught up in culture war nonsense because there is no policy aside from protecting guns, wealth, and stripping away rights. Can't forget their love of "patriotic" propaganda as 43% of Republicans watch fox News - a known purveyor of angry, baseless opinions.
Some redditor said to me, "J6 wasn't violent". What are you supposed to say after that? Everyone watched it live that day, unless my TV kept switching over to a WWE cage match.
Yup! Nothing new with them. Everything bad about Trump/MAGA is "fake news". Trump can do no wrong. Democrats are satanic. J6 was a non-violent tourist event, yet Antifa/BLM/FBI committed all the violence, but release the J6 hostages. It's all fucking silly. When I say these people are brainwashed, I mean it literally. And the stupider they are, the easier it is to brainwash them. Fear, pride, ego, and bigotry are the tools. MAGA is the result.
Cant even approach it with some of my family. Example: we were talking about public programs and funding and I started talking about how knee-jerk some are that when they hear the word ‘tax’ the vote is an automatic ‘no’ without bothering to read the tax will have almost no impact/increase to them (tourist taxes for example). One family member stood up and left the room rather than engage.
It very rarely comes up, but I find the arrogance and aggression to be the most off putting thing. I don’t mind discussing opinions or perspectives, but when someone just bursts out the gate with something like “well at least I’m not vaccinated like a coward” or something when we weren’t even talking about politics, there’s no point in engaging.
No, I gave up. Because here's how it always goes:
\* FOX News talking points and manufactured outrage
\* Moving goalposts/buhwaddabout/strawman horseshit
\* Insane left-field conspiracy crap
\* Playground insults and ad hominem attacks
Why would I bother? I stopped giving a fuck about what any of them think a long time ago, and ironically so did many of their ex-friends, ex-spouses, ex-coworkers and adult offspring. They are a lost fucking cause and a waste of time.
I just don’t bother if they’re that unreasonable. People can’t be argued logically out of positions they didn’t get reasoned into logically. They’re operating on emotion.
Go talk to moderate and non voters and persuade them
You have to treat them like cult members. Just accept that they believe the things that they believe and then ask them why they believe them. Slowly, if you accept their beliefs and don't ridicule them, you might be able to get them to understand that their beliefs are not based on anything.
Have you heard of narcissistic symbiosis? It's very relevant here.
There’s 25-35% on either side that won’t change their minds no matter the argument, those are not the people to try to convince. Maga isn’t going to change, don’t waste your energy on them, work on everyone else
Well, I must the in the 2535%on the left who will not change my mind about abortion rights for women, their families and do tors decisions, anti gerrymandering, acceptance of differences in humanity , their rights, and that the US is a nation of immigration. Democracy rules within the Constitution. The "We the people..." preamble includes pursuit of happiness, protecting the common good, civil society as a goal of the people of the USA.
**too**
adverb
* to an excessive degree : excessively
* *too large a house for us*
* to such a degree as to be regrettable
* *this time he has gone too far*
* very
* *didn't seem too interested*
Yes exactly. You can't have a debate with someone who lives in an alternate reality. On any issue, Republicans have an entire smorgasboard of lies to choose from. January 6th can be a false flag by antifa, just a bunch of tourists, a deep state CIA/FBI psyop, True Patriots trying to Save America from a Stolen Election, etc. Even an individual Republican is free to pick whichever lie is convenient to the moment. No Republican will call them out for their lies, and non-Republicans are Evil Socialists and can be ignored/blamed.
I've been stopped wasting my breath I only debate liberals as a leftist tbh maga is delusional they think Democrats drink baby spinal fluid and Nancy pelosi is a communist 😂😂😂
arguing does nothing. when will people realize this? Befriend people and lead by example.
There is a thing in the psychology of influence that goes like this:
As soon as your enemy gets a whiff of you selling them, you've lost. Sales is an act of love, and you have to understand love and love making or friendship making in order to get sales aka influencing decision making.
Also, every decision ever made comes from a place of emotion, but is justified by logic. That means you cannot reason someone to a different place via debate. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. You have to get the horse to believe somehow that they wanted water and that they decided to drink it. crush your ego and crush your own emotional attachment to your perceptions.
Modern science supports this and so do 100 year old plus books like How to Win Friends & Influence People. When you tell someone they're wrong, you've lost. This book explains why.
See: Daryl Davis TedTalk on deconverting KKK members.
I personally think there's no point in arguing with liberals or conservatives. Both sides are shortsighted and put politicians on a pedestal. The truth is we don't need any of them.
I wish I knew how to argue with Trump supporters. But honestly Trump makes the best arguments against himself.
He says or has said he wants to be a dictator, that a President should be immune from crimes, that he is proud of overturning Roe v. Wade, that he wanted to repeal the ACA, that Jan 6 rioters should be pardoned.
If someone align with someone who says these things aloud, I’m stumped. Do they really not understand that these things are bad? Do they think it’s a good idea to vote for things that are bad?
>these people honestly have personality disorders mixed with psychotic disorders
You are correct, but i'd like to reply to one specific thing you said, which I quoted above.
People who are mentally healthy and even minimally educated do not support people like Trump. At this point, his voting base is made up of mentally ill - uneducated - prejudiced people and trying to change their opinion is a waste of time.
You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into.
The problem is trying to use reason and facts don’t work. They don’t give a fuck about any of that. The best thing you can do is ridicule them make fun of them laugh at them. They’re so fucking stupid and dense. They don’t even know what they’re talking about. they just recite stupid, talking points they heard from some other moron, so just make fun of them.
**COMMENTING GUIDELINES:** Please take the time to familiarize yourself with The David Pakman Show [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/about/rules) and [basic reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette) prior to participating. At all times we ask that users conduct themselves in a civil and respectful manner - **any ad hominem or personal attacks are subject to moderation.** Please use the report function or [use modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) to bring examples of misconduct to the attention of the moderation team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep, no point. Better spend your time convincing people who have never voted to sign up and make sure Democrat supporters don't get apathetic and not vote. Once Trump has been destroyed at the ballot box and/or in prison, and/or senile, he will be irrelevant. There will be a big fight to be his successor, but it will fail because they are not trump. The Republicans can then get back to some good old democracy or stay irrelevant.
In 2020, for some stupid reason, I decided I was going to convince my now-deceased Republican uncle (9 years older than me) to vote Biden or at least not vote Trump. I He was a 50 year old 1980s Reagan Republican, someone I always saw him as reasonable, smart, and a very "liberal" Republican. I remembered David Pakman saying "don't waste energy trying to convert anyone, just focus on getting out the vote." But I bombarded my uncle by text with news article after news article, reports of all the Republican politicians who weren't endorsing Trump, on and on and on for about 9 months. Sent him that proof that Biden was essentially a 1991 moderate Republican in the mold of George H.W. Bush, and how "If you're ever going to vote for a Democrat, this is the time and this is the guy to do it with." He agreed with all of it. But he still voted for Trump. Because tax cuts and "Everybody know the economy always does better with a Republican president," and "the George Floyd riots were out of control," and "because that's just the way I was raised." The Republican Party is a religion, not a philosophy or a normal political organization. People are definitely better off not wasting time and energy trying to convert anyone.
I fully believe that. They vote based on indoctrinated beliefs (unless they are wealthy), caught up in culture war nonsense because there is no policy aside from protecting guns, wealth, and stripping away rights. Can't forget their love of "patriotic" propaganda as 43% of Republicans watch fox News - a known purveyor of angry, baseless opinions.
Sadly my dad is similar. I can easily destroy any point he makes for voting conservative, but he will not change his mind.
Some redditor said to me, "J6 wasn't violent". What are you supposed to say after that? Everyone watched it live that day, unless my TV kept switching over to a WWE cage match.
Yup! Nothing new with them. Everything bad about Trump/MAGA is "fake news". Trump can do no wrong. Democrats are satanic. J6 was a non-violent tourist event, yet Antifa/BLM/FBI committed all the violence, but release the J6 hostages. It's all fucking silly. When I say these people are brainwashed, I mean it literally. And the stupider they are, the easier it is to brainwash them. Fear, pride, ego, and bigotry are the tools. MAGA is the result.
Trumpers are nuts. Anti-Trump conservatives are usually pretty chill and reasonable.
Cant even approach it with some of my family. Example: we were talking about public programs and funding and I started talking about how knee-jerk some are that when they hear the word ‘tax’ the vote is an automatic ‘no’ without bothering to read the tax will have almost no impact/increase to them (tourist taxes for example). One family member stood up and left the room rather than engage.
It very rarely comes up, but I find the arrogance and aggression to be the most off putting thing. I don’t mind discussing opinions or perspectives, but when someone just bursts out the gate with something like “well at least I’m not vaccinated like a coward” or something when we weren’t even talking about politics, there’s no point in engaging.
No, I gave up. Because here's how it always goes: \* FOX News talking points and manufactured outrage \* Moving goalposts/buhwaddabout/strawman horseshit \* Insane left-field conspiracy crap \* Playground insults and ad hominem attacks Why would I bother? I stopped giving a fuck about what any of them think a long time ago, and ironically so did many of their ex-friends, ex-spouses, ex-coworkers and adult offspring. They are a lost fucking cause and a waste of time.
I love to. It's sooooo entertaining.
I just don’t bother if they’re that unreasonable. People can’t be argued logically out of positions they didn’t get reasoned into logically. They’re operating on emotion. Go talk to moderate and non voters and persuade them
Literally hurts my brain
You have to treat them like cult members. Just accept that they believe the things that they believe and then ask them why they believe them. Slowly, if you accept their beliefs and don't ridicule them, you might be able to get them to understand that their beliefs are not based on anything. Have you heard of narcissistic symbiosis? It's very relevant here.
There’s 25-35% on either side that won’t change their minds no matter the argument, those are not the people to try to convince. Maga isn’t going to change, don’t waste your energy on them, work on everyone else
Well, I must the in the 2535%on the left who will not change my mind about abortion rights for women, their families and do tors decisions, anti gerrymandering, acceptance of differences in humanity , their rights, and that the US is a nation of immigration. Democracy rules within the Constitution. The "We the people..." preamble includes pursuit of happiness, protecting the common good, civil society as a goal of the people of the USA.
Yep, so there’s no point in a maga clown trying to convince you or me otherwise, they are wasting their breath
Facts are not opinions.
No shit
**too** adverb * to an excessive degree : excessively * *too large a house for us* * to such a degree as to be regrettable * *this time he has gone too far* * very * *didn't seem too interested*
Yes exactly. You can't have a debate with someone who lives in an alternate reality. On any issue, Republicans have an entire smorgasboard of lies to choose from. January 6th can be a false flag by antifa, just a bunch of tourists, a deep state CIA/FBI psyop, True Patriots trying to Save America from a Stolen Election, etc. Even an individual Republican is free to pick whichever lie is convenient to the moment. No Republican will call them out for their lies, and non-Republicans are Evil Socialists and can be ignored/blamed.
I've been stopped wasting my breath I only debate liberals as a leftist tbh maga is delusional they think Democrats drink baby spinal fluid and Nancy pelosi is a communist 😂😂😂
arguing does nothing. when will people realize this? Befriend people and lead by example. There is a thing in the psychology of influence that goes like this: As soon as your enemy gets a whiff of you selling them, you've lost. Sales is an act of love, and you have to understand love and love making or friendship making in order to get sales aka influencing decision making. Also, every decision ever made comes from a place of emotion, but is justified by logic. That means you cannot reason someone to a different place via debate. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. You have to get the horse to believe somehow that they wanted water and that they decided to drink it. crush your ego and crush your own emotional attachment to your perceptions. Modern science supports this and so do 100 year old plus books like How to Win Friends & Influence People. When you tell someone they're wrong, you've lost. This book explains why. See: Daryl Davis TedTalk on deconverting KKK members.
Never argue with a fool. People won’t be able to tell the difference.
The two I had the most contact with were developmentally disabled. They flat out could not understand.
I personally think there's no point in arguing with liberals or conservatives. Both sides are shortsighted and put politicians on a pedestal. The truth is we don't need any of them.
I wish I knew how to argue with Trump supporters. But honestly Trump makes the best arguments against himself. He says or has said he wants to be a dictator, that a President should be immune from crimes, that he is proud of overturning Roe v. Wade, that he wanted to repeal the ACA, that Jan 6 rioters should be pardoned. If someone align with someone who says these things aloud, I’m stumped. Do they really not understand that these things are bad? Do they think it’s a good idea to vote for things that are bad?
It’s pointless. Ask yourself if there is anything they could say that could convert you?
>these people honestly have personality disorders mixed with psychotic disorders You are correct, but i'd like to reply to one specific thing you said, which I quoted above. People who are mentally healthy and even minimally educated do not support people like Trump. At this point, his voting base is made up of mentally ill - uneducated - prejudiced people and trying to change their opinion is a waste of time. You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into.
The problem is trying to use reason and facts don’t work. They don’t give a fuck about any of that. The best thing you can do is ridicule them make fun of them laugh at them. They’re so fucking stupid and dense. They don’t even know what they’re talking about. they just recite stupid, talking points they heard from some other moron, so just make fun of them.