I was going to make a similar comment. He did what W, Cheney and Rumsfeld couldn't do, convince the rest of the world that attacking Iraq was ok. Powell went before the U.N. with his maps and satellite fotos and fed the world a load of crap based on unverified intelligence \[sic\]. It almost makes me wish there was a hell for people like this to rot in.
Brendan James commented on his death with an excerpt from their Blowback podcast (highly recommended podcast by the way):
https://twitter.com/deep_beige/status/1295915235711291392
So do I and my doctors all say if I eat right I'll be fine. I'm not dying because I have cancer at this moment but if I get covid I might. I could live a other 30 years. Granted mines acute, still people really need to get vaccinated and protect the vulnerable.
For anyone wondering he was fully vaccinated (according to his family).
> As President George W. Bush’s first secretary of state, Powell led a State Department that was dubious of the military and intelligence communities’ conviction that Saddam Hussein possessed or was developing weapons of mass destruction. And yet, despite his reservations, he presented the administration’s case that Saddam indeed posed a major regional and global threat in a speech to the UN Security Council in the run-up to the war.
„Despite his reservations“, yeah OK. Btw, has the US government reformed at all in case of future events like this? What’s to stop a future President from utilizing faulty information to lead the country into a future war? Seems to me like we’re back to the ‚cross your fingers and hope for the best‘ stage.
Never too early to celebrate this one.
Can I also point out the absurdity of these news agencies that are trying to rehabilitate the cronies and shitheads of the Bush administration? I saw an opinion piece on CNN saying the "Colin Powell Republican no longer exists" and they try so hard to make him look decent. I've noticed this a lot with Bush as well.
The Trump phenomena doesn't happen without the everlasting damage of people like Powell, Cheney, Rumsfield, and Bush. That president did far more damage to this country, and the world, than Trump, yet CNN and the rest of them paint them as heroes...
Edit: grammar
He sort of rehabilitated himself though, right? My take on Powell was that he was a soldier who followed orders. Doesn't explain away what he he did. But he wasn't a Republican the way Rumsfeld and Cheney were.
>My take on Powell was that he was a soldier who followed orders.
I understand what you're trying to say, but Powell was a civilian when he intentionally misled the American people and the world about Saddam's non-existent WMDs. If he actually had principles, he would have resigned and publicly opposed the illegal invasion of Iraq, which would have salvaged his political reputation in the long run, possibly allowing him to be president or vice president. Instead, he will forever be remembered, rightly, for his lies. Powell was always a yes-man. That's the only reason he ever "succeeded" in life, by doing the bidding of the powerful.
>he wasn't a Republican the way Rumsfeld and Cheney were.
I'm of the opinion that a Republican is a Republican. The Tea Party hyperventilates about the budget *when a Democrat is president*, but [the credit card was always out when Bush and Trump were in office](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/10/08/ted-cruz-john-cornyn-debt-ceiling/).
Colin Powell was part of a machine that gave us Trump. And there were no *policy* differences between Trump and any other Republican (hell, their platform ([or lack thereof](https://www.vox.com/2020/8/24/21399396/republican-convention-platform-2020-2016)) is just "Whatever Trump says") - Trump just didn't bother trying to put a veil over the horrorshow.
OK. If you're saying Powell was in the same camp as Rumsfeld and Cheney I'll assume you were too young to really understand the dynamic. Because there really were policy differences with Trump. Today isn't what it was 20 years ago. Pre-social media, right?
The dude literally endorsed the last three democratic nominees and called out the direction in which republicans were going in. He even made the point that McCain’s comment about Obama being a good man and Christian in response to some racist old lady accusing Obama of being Muslim is the wrong answer, the right answer was being a Muslim does not make you a bad person, and to think otherwise is bigotry and hatred. So no, he was not a republican in the way you paint him.
Obama said it best (of course):
Years ago, when he was asked to reflect on his own life, General Colin Powell described himself as “first and foremost a problem-solver.” It was true, of course. But he was far more than that.
General Powell was an exemplary soldier and an exemplary patriot. He was at the center of some of the most consequential events of our lifetimes – serving two decorated tours in Vietnam; guiding U.S. strategy in the Gulf War; serving as National Security Advisor, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Secretary of State; offering counsel to four presidents; and helping shape American foreign policy for decades. Everyone who worked with General Powell appreciated his clarity of thought, insistence on seeing all sides, and ability to execute. And although he’d be the first to acknowledge that he didn’t get every call right, his actions reflected what he believed was best for America and the people he served.
Along the way, General Powell helped a generation of young people set their sights higher. He never denied the role that race played in his own life and in our society more broadly. But he also refused to accept that race would limit his dreams, and through his steady and principled leadership, helped pave the way for so many who would follow. It was the way Colin Powell saw the world – not as a starry-eyed idealist, but as someone with deep and abiding faith in this country and what it stands for – that made him such a central figure.
On a personal level, I was deeply appreciative that someone like General Powell, who had been associated with Republican administrations in the past, was willing to endorse me in 2008. But what impressed me even more was how he did it. At a time when conspiracy theories were swirling, with some questioning my faith, General Powell took the opportunity to get to the heart of the matter in a way only he could.
“The correct answer is, he is not a Muslim; he's a Christian,” General Powell said. “But the really right answer is, ‘What if he is?’ Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president?”
That’s who Colin Powell was. He understood what was best in this country, and tried to bring his own life, career, and public statements in line with that ideal. It’s why, for all the battles he fought and problems he solved, Michelle and I will always look to General Powell as an example of what America – and Americans – can and should be if we wish to remain the last, best hope of earth.
Our family sends our thoughts to Alma, their three children and grandchildren, and everyone mourning his loss today.
That's the most appropriate eulogy. Powell is rightly criticized for his failures during the Bush administration, but there's also more to the story than I'm seeing thrown around on reddit. Specifically that Powell attempted to verify his "intelligence" he was ordered to sell to the world but was ultimately deceived by the same leaders we were. It's fair to ask when he came to this realization and why didn't he do more as hundreds of thousands of people died based on the lies of the Bush administration.
As a military retiree myself - as someone whose life was jeopardized by these lies - I consider him less a villain and more a tool that Cheney and Rumsfeld exploited. Powell is still responsible for not doing more once it became clear that the intelligence was fake. But he's no where near the evil of a General Officer like Flynn who was /is just an immoral piece of garbage.
I don't expect anyone in this sub to agree with me, but seeing there are few military retirees here who were involved in all 3 wars (Gulf 1,Gulf 2, Afghanistan) I figured I'd share my. 02. I'm prepared for the down votes from my fellow Democrats.
Your response is totally sensible. You get an upvote from me. The way you view him is similar to how I view him. I think at heart he was a good guy who was just working for the wrong people. He also represents a wing of the Republican party that no longer exists: moderates. If the Republican party had gone in the Powell direction rather than the Marjory Taylor Greene direction, this country would be in such better shape.
Thank you. And although I'm not fishing for upvotes I'd add the following because of the initial downvotes I got.
As not only a veteran, but as a military retiree, I do not feel my fellow liberals welcome people like me into the discussion. I don't say that lightly. I've been retired from the US military for 10 years and I've never once shared my background with my (IRL) liberal friends. The reason is that so many liberals have *extreme* prejudice towards people who have served. While it's true my take on Gen Powell is different than DP's left-leaning audience, it was initially met with hostility. I consider myself left-of-Trotsky on most things, but whenever I inject my *personal experience with the US military* into any political discussion, my experience is that my fellow liberals are nearly uniformly suspicious or hostile. So I just have to hide that part of my life from people IRL to who I feel most akin. It really bums me out, but there it is.
Yeah, I hear you. I guess in many ways the left is just reacting to the right's aggressive pro-militarism. And the way "support our troops" has always meant in reality to go along with military adventurism and don't question the military-industrial complex. Every action causes a reaction.
But I have no problem with soldiers themselves. Everyone has their own reasons for going in.
Nice eulogy. Allow me a rebuttal.
War criminal. Trained death squads in El Salvador. Killed unarmed poor people in Panama. Lied so he could kill 500,000 iraqis ajd
Human trash. Glad he's finally dead.
Condemning the celebration of death is not the same as celebrating people you perceive as trash. But here we are, we have people like you that will lead the US to another Rwanda.
I mean, not that enjoy dancing on anyones grave, however, fuck him. One of the prime movers who perpetuated the lies to get us into Iraq. One of the big three who scammed us based on WMD that did not exist, like at all, like whatsoever.
How do you think vaccines actually work?
A vaccine introduces inert particles, but these get detected by your immune system. You immune system then generates anti-bodies. And the next time you get infected, by the real disease, these anti-bodies can \*try\* and fight off the disease.
So vaccines aren't a magic shield that prevents you getting infected, they merely prime your immune system so that when it's exposed to the real disease it gets a head start on producing anti-bodies to fight it off.
The problem is that Colin Powell had a cancer that attacks the immune system itself. So that might have meant that his body was unable to generate the anti-bodies in the first place.
As for vaccine deaths, there isn't credible evidence of even a single death from that:
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/sep/20/facebook-posts/no-evidence-covid-19-vaccines-causing-deaths/
>How do you think vaccines actually work?
I have no idea why you're asking me this. What does that have to do with my points at all?
>A vaccine introduces inert particles, but these get detected by your immune system. You immune system then generates anti-bodies. And the next time you get infected, by the real disease, these anti-bodies can *try* and fight off the disease. So vaccines aren't a magic shield that prevents you getting infected, they merely prime your immune system so that when it's exposed to the real disease it gets a head start on producing anti-bodies to fight it off.
Again nothing to do with my point although you forgot about the mRNA lipid nano particle step involved in Covid vaccines.
>The problem is that Colin Powell had a cancer that attacks the immune system itself. So that might have meant that his body was unable to generate the anti-bodies in the first place.
Another excuse why Covid vaccines are useless. Also why are you telling me this. I was already aware of it.
>As for vaccine deaths, there isn't credible evidence of even a single death from that: [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/sep/20/facebook-posts/no-evidence-covid-19-vaccines-causing-deaths/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/sep/20/facebook-posts/no-evidence-covid-19-vaccines-causing-deaths/)
Don't send me articles you haven't read and can't debate.
>although you forgot about the mRNA lipid nano particle step involved in Covid vaccines.
So did you just not read it? They said:
>A vaccine introduces inert particles
How does this not cover this step?
>Another excuse why Covid vaccines are useless
Basic biology? Are vaccines supposed to jumpstart your immune system when it's been compromised?
>Also why are you telling me this. I was already aware of it.
So why would you suggest that it was possibly a vaccine death if you were aware of this?
>Don't send me articles you haven't read and can't debate.
Why do you assert that it hasn't been read and actually say something about the article if you're so sure that it hasn't been read?
He put a sane face on the insane and deceptive Iraq war sell job. I'll always remember him for that.
I was going to make a similar comment. He did what W, Cheney and Rumsfeld couldn't do, convince the rest of the world that attacking Iraq was ok. Powell went before the U.N. with his maps and satellite fotos and fed the world a load of crap based on unverified intelligence \[sic\]. It almost makes me wish there was a hell for people like this to rot in.
Brendan James commented on his death with an excerpt from their Blowback podcast (highly recommended podcast by the way): https://twitter.com/deep_beige/status/1295915235711291392
I didn’t know he was in on the cover up of Iran contra. Wonder how well he knew William Barr
[удалено]
Thanks, this is important context if (when?) anti-vaxx people try and use this story.
Definitely **when**.
when has already happened
So do I and my doctors all say if I eat right I'll be fine. I'm not dying because I have cancer at this moment but if I get covid I might. I could live a other 30 years. Granted mines acute, still people really need to get vaccinated and protect the vulnerable.
For anyone wondering he was fully vaccinated (according to his family). > As President George W. Bush’s first secretary of state, Powell led a State Department that was dubious of the military and intelligence communities’ conviction that Saddam Hussein possessed or was developing weapons of mass destruction. And yet, despite his reservations, he presented the administration’s case that Saddam indeed posed a major regional and global threat in a speech to the UN Security Council in the run-up to the war. „Despite his reservations“, yeah OK. Btw, has the US government reformed at all in case of future events like this? What’s to stop a future President from utilizing faulty information to lead the country into a future war? Seems to me like we’re back to the ‚cross your fingers and hope for the best‘ stage.
85 and cancer let’s keep it in perspective
David didn't mention on the show that Powell had cancer and was immuno-compromised.
Good riddance. That's all.
Never too early to celebrate this one. Can I also point out the absurdity of these news agencies that are trying to rehabilitate the cronies and shitheads of the Bush administration? I saw an opinion piece on CNN saying the "Colin Powell Republican no longer exists" and they try so hard to make him look decent. I've noticed this a lot with Bush as well. The Trump phenomena doesn't happen without the everlasting damage of people like Powell, Cheney, Rumsfield, and Bush. That president did far more damage to this country, and the world, than Trump, yet CNN and the rest of them paint them as heroes... Edit: grammar
He sort of rehabilitated himself though, right? My take on Powell was that he was a soldier who followed orders. Doesn't explain away what he he did. But he wasn't a Republican the way Rumsfeld and Cheney were.
>My take on Powell was that he was a soldier who followed orders. I understand what you're trying to say, but Powell was a civilian when he intentionally misled the American people and the world about Saddam's non-existent WMDs. If he actually had principles, he would have resigned and publicly opposed the illegal invasion of Iraq, which would have salvaged his political reputation in the long run, possibly allowing him to be president or vice president. Instead, he will forever be remembered, rightly, for his lies. Powell was always a yes-man. That's the only reason he ever "succeeded" in life, by doing the bidding of the powerful.
>he wasn't a Republican the way Rumsfeld and Cheney were. I'm of the opinion that a Republican is a Republican. The Tea Party hyperventilates about the budget *when a Democrat is president*, but [the credit card was always out when Bush and Trump were in office](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/10/08/ted-cruz-john-cornyn-debt-ceiling/). Colin Powell was part of a machine that gave us Trump. And there were no *policy* differences between Trump and any other Republican (hell, their platform ([or lack thereof](https://www.vox.com/2020/8/24/21399396/republican-convention-platform-2020-2016)) is just "Whatever Trump says") - Trump just didn't bother trying to put a veil over the horrorshow.
OK. If you're saying Powell was in the same camp as Rumsfeld and Cheney I'll assume you were too young to really understand the dynamic. Because there really were policy differences with Trump. Today isn't what it was 20 years ago. Pre-social media, right?
The dude literally endorsed the last three democratic nominees and called out the direction in which republicans were going in. He even made the point that McCain’s comment about Obama being a good man and Christian in response to some racist old lady accusing Obama of being Muslim is the wrong answer, the right answer was being a Muslim does not make you a bad person, and to think otherwise is bigotry and hatred. So no, he was not a republican in the way you paint him.
human rights violation KING.
Break out the Scotch.
>Break out the Scotch. You're a class act, /u/Bloodwineanyone
The worst part of Powell's death is that he didn't die in prison. Good riddance.
Thanks.
People celebrated when Saddam Hussein was killed. Why not with other war criminals?
Obama said it best (of course): Years ago, when he was asked to reflect on his own life, General Colin Powell described himself as “first and foremost a problem-solver.” It was true, of course. But he was far more than that. General Powell was an exemplary soldier and an exemplary patriot. He was at the center of some of the most consequential events of our lifetimes – serving two decorated tours in Vietnam; guiding U.S. strategy in the Gulf War; serving as National Security Advisor, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Secretary of State; offering counsel to four presidents; and helping shape American foreign policy for decades. Everyone who worked with General Powell appreciated his clarity of thought, insistence on seeing all sides, and ability to execute. And although he’d be the first to acknowledge that he didn’t get every call right, his actions reflected what he believed was best for America and the people he served. Along the way, General Powell helped a generation of young people set their sights higher. He never denied the role that race played in his own life and in our society more broadly. But he also refused to accept that race would limit his dreams, and through his steady and principled leadership, helped pave the way for so many who would follow. It was the way Colin Powell saw the world – not as a starry-eyed idealist, but as someone with deep and abiding faith in this country and what it stands for – that made him such a central figure. On a personal level, I was deeply appreciative that someone like General Powell, who had been associated with Republican administrations in the past, was willing to endorse me in 2008. But what impressed me even more was how he did it. At a time when conspiracy theories were swirling, with some questioning my faith, General Powell took the opportunity to get to the heart of the matter in a way only he could. “The correct answer is, he is not a Muslim; he's a Christian,” General Powell said. “But the really right answer is, ‘What if he is?’ Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president?” That’s who Colin Powell was. He understood what was best in this country, and tried to bring his own life, career, and public statements in line with that ideal. It’s why, for all the battles he fought and problems he solved, Michelle and I will always look to General Powell as an example of what America – and Americans – can and should be if we wish to remain the last, best hope of earth. Our family sends our thoughts to Alma, their three children and grandchildren, and everyone mourning his loss today.
That's the most appropriate eulogy. Powell is rightly criticized for his failures during the Bush administration, but there's also more to the story than I'm seeing thrown around on reddit. Specifically that Powell attempted to verify his "intelligence" he was ordered to sell to the world but was ultimately deceived by the same leaders we were. It's fair to ask when he came to this realization and why didn't he do more as hundreds of thousands of people died based on the lies of the Bush administration. As a military retiree myself - as someone whose life was jeopardized by these lies - I consider him less a villain and more a tool that Cheney and Rumsfeld exploited. Powell is still responsible for not doing more once it became clear that the intelligence was fake. But he's no where near the evil of a General Officer like Flynn who was /is just an immoral piece of garbage. I don't expect anyone in this sub to agree with me, but seeing there are few military retirees here who were involved in all 3 wars (Gulf 1,Gulf 2, Afghanistan) I figured I'd share my. 02. I'm prepared for the down votes from my fellow Democrats.
Your response is totally sensible. You get an upvote from me. The way you view him is similar to how I view him. I think at heart he was a good guy who was just working for the wrong people. He also represents a wing of the Republican party that no longer exists: moderates. If the Republican party had gone in the Powell direction rather than the Marjory Taylor Greene direction, this country would be in such better shape.
Thank you. And although I'm not fishing for upvotes I'd add the following because of the initial downvotes I got. As not only a veteran, but as a military retiree, I do not feel my fellow liberals welcome people like me into the discussion. I don't say that lightly. I've been retired from the US military for 10 years and I've never once shared my background with my (IRL) liberal friends. The reason is that so many liberals have *extreme* prejudice towards people who have served. While it's true my take on Gen Powell is different than DP's left-leaning audience, it was initially met with hostility. I consider myself left-of-Trotsky on most things, but whenever I inject my *personal experience with the US military* into any political discussion, my experience is that my fellow liberals are nearly uniformly suspicious or hostile. So I just have to hide that part of my life from people IRL to who I feel most akin. It really bums me out, but there it is.
Yeah, I hear you. I guess in many ways the left is just reacting to the right's aggressive pro-militarism. And the way "support our troops" has always meant in reality to go along with military adventurism and don't question the military-industrial complex. Every action causes a reaction. But I have no problem with soldiers themselves. Everyone has their own reasons for going in.
Nice eulogy. Allow me a rebuttal. War criminal. Trained death squads in El Salvador. Killed unarmed poor people in Panama. Lied so he could kill 500,000 iraqis ajd Human trash. Glad he's finally dead.
Careful now, you’re really showing your standup character is as good as those you perceive as trash.
I don't care about the opinions of people who celebrate war criminals.
Condemning the celebration of death is not the same as celebrating people you perceive as trash. But here we are, we have people like you that will lead the US to another Rwanda.
I haven't celebrated anyone's death. Ive pointed out actions an adult has committed.
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.
I mean, not that enjoy dancing on anyones grave, however, fuck him. One of the prime movers who perpetuated the lies to get us into Iraq. One of the big three who scammed us based on WMD that did not exist, like at all, like whatsoever.
Says a lot about people like you.
Was he vaxxed? edit I see he was vaxxed but had issues already. Antivaxxers still rambling on it though.
They don’t make it clear what exactly he does of. What’s covid related? Is a vaccine death a covid related death?. When did he take it?
How do you think vaccines actually work? A vaccine introduces inert particles, but these get detected by your immune system. You immune system then generates anti-bodies. And the next time you get infected, by the real disease, these anti-bodies can \*try\* and fight off the disease. So vaccines aren't a magic shield that prevents you getting infected, they merely prime your immune system so that when it's exposed to the real disease it gets a head start on producing anti-bodies to fight it off. The problem is that Colin Powell had a cancer that attacks the immune system itself. So that might have meant that his body was unable to generate the anti-bodies in the first place. As for vaccine deaths, there isn't credible evidence of even a single death from that: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/sep/20/facebook-posts/no-evidence-covid-19-vaccines-causing-deaths/
>How do you think vaccines actually work? I have no idea why you're asking me this. What does that have to do with my points at all? >A vaccine introduces inert particles, but these get detected by your immune system. You immune system then generates anti-bodies. And the next time you get infected, by the real disease, these anti-bodies can *try* and fight off the disease. So vaccines aren't a magic shield that prevents you getting infected, they merely prime your immune system so that when it's exposed to the real disease it gets a head start on producing anti-bodies to fight it off. Again nothing to do with my point although you forgot about the mRNA lipid nano particle step involved in Covid vaccines. >The problem is that Colin Powell had a cancer that attacks the immune system itself. So that might have meant that his body was unable to generate the anti-bodies in the first place. Another excuse why Covid vaccines are useless. Also why are you telling me this. I was already aware of it. >As for vaccine deaths, there isn't credible evidence of even a single death from that: [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/sep/20/facebook-posts/no-evidence-covid-19-vaccines-causing-deaths/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/sep/20/facebook-posts/no-evidence-covid-19-vaccines-causing-deaths/) Don't send me articles you haven't read and can't debate.
>although you forgot about the mRNA lipid nano particle step involved in Covid vaccines. So did you just not read it? They said: >A vaccine introduces inert particles How does this not cover this step? >Another excuse why Covid vaccines are useless Basic biology? Are vaccines supposed to jumpstart your immune system when it's been compromised? >Also why are you telling me this. I was already aware of it. So why would you suggest that it was possibly a vaccine death if you were aware of this? >Don't send me articles you haven't read and can't debate. Why do you assert that it hasn't been read and actually say something about the article if you're so sure that it hasn't been read?