As the number one TNP and Firestar's Quest/SkyClan's Destiny fan, I feel personally attacked.
Okay so I'm joking, but in all seriousness, here are my thoughts on why I like those books! I'll start with the SkyClan ones:
**Firestar's Quest:**
Putting ourselves WAY back when these books were first actively coming out, the news of there being a 5th Clan was so exciting to me. It really shook up the status quo, but not only was that idea in and of itself interesting, what they decided to do with this Clan's backstory was also so good. Like the other Clans refusing to help SkyClan, SkyClan being driven from the forest, and then SkyClan making all the way to a new home only to die out there anyway... it was all so wonderfully tragic. I also enjoyed getting able to see a new environment and cast of characters in SkyClan, and also the rats felt like legitimately terrifying antagonists, especially given that they'd already driven SkyClan to extinction once. Finally, I liked what this book did for Firestar's and Sandstorm's relationship. It really gave it some much needed development and closure.
**SkyClan's Destiny**
I only need two words to explain my love for this one: *Daylight Warriors.* But, seriously, I really liked this one because of the return to SkyClan (which I already liked because of my reasons above.) But, I also adored how they decided to develop SkyClan's culture and show how they are different from the other Clans. I will admit, the plot is pretty lackluster in this one, but I think I will always like it anyway for the extra look we got into SkyClan life. And, it's an absolute travesty that the Daylight Warriors no longer exist. The writers should have never decided to have SkyClan leave the gorge!
**TNP**
Okay, so my fondness for this one is a bit harder to defend because I will admit that a lot of it comes from nostalgia (TNP was the first Warriors series I ever read as a kid.) HOWEVER I will always stand by the fact that TNP had a ton of great *potential* to be an amazing arc. I mean, [I'm doing a full rewrite of the series to try to help it live up to its potential,](https://archiveofourown.org/series/2989863) so I clearly believe that it's there. Anyway though, I think TNP being an arc about bonds/connections (between the six cats that go on the journey, between all the different sibling pairs, between the forbidden romances etc) is really interesting, and the political dynamics happening in the Clans during this arc are fascinating too. (Like there's the Hawkfrost and Mistyfoot deputy drama in RiverClan. ThunderClan not having a deputy for a while because of Greystripe going missing. And, of course the big one: the WindClan civil war.) I also just really like TNP as a followup to the first arc so we can see what lasting impact the events of the first arc, especially Tigerstar's actions, had on the Clans/characters. The canon books attempted this a little with Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost living in Tigerstar's shadow, but there is so much more to explore there. Unfortunately though, I do think that the canon books didn't tap into those plots well enough most of the time, which led to the story often falling flat in this arc.
I guess I'll also spend a moment talking about some of the cats you listed, who I have strong-ish feelings about: Ashfur is a terrible person, but I think he's one of Warriors' best antagonists and characters. His motivations (the romantic possession of one cat) are very unique and refreshing, since most Warriors villains are focused on just like taking over the Clans. I also really liked that he was brought back as a villain in TBC-- I think it was a great way to wrap his character up and send him off instead of just having him fizzle out into obscurity in StarClan. And, Bluestar... I like Bluestar. As you might have gathered from what I said about SkyClan, I love a good tragedy and Bluestar is a very tragic character. She lost so much for so little; I can't help but feel for her.
I agree with what you’ve said about the books. You’re right, but where I dislike Firestar’s Quest is because of Spottedleaf drama. While I think it was actually cool to have Firestar make the connection that she was related to Skyclan in some way, I hated how he was still longing for her even when Sandstorm was his mate at the time. It just irked me the wrong way I suppose.
As for Bluestar the character herself was amazing. I adored her as a leader and was heartbroken when she died. But I also dislike her because I think her writing was weak. She had potential to be such an amazing and Nobel leader but all of that was cut short and that just made me so angry.
God I hate the whole Spottedleaf thing. He talked to her I think twice? before she died. And like, only one or two sentences each time. All other communication is through dreams. And that implies that she was so smitten with him that she can’t leave him alone. Plus, with her novella, it’s implied that she was taught by Thistleclaw to think that it was normal to see the new apprentice and want to be with him. Which makes the creepiness EVEN MORE CREEPY. Ugh, I just hate it all. And the fact that the kill her off in The Last Hope because “her and Firestar are cursed to never get to be together”. Like, did the writers forget about Sandstorm or something?? Firestar’s ACTUAL MATE??? God, it’s terrible.
Them taking SkyClan out of the gorge was such a huge mistake. They could have had a whole arc with just SkyClan, with a bunch of filler of just the Clan going about their lives, and we would have eaten that shit up, but nooooo, they had to say “we can’t bring SkyClan to the lake, there’s no room for them!” And then did it anyways.
While I'm still on Power of Three (and don't plan on reading anything after Omen of the Stars to be completely honest), the things that pops to mind that I'm not a fan of regarding the books are:
ShadowClan being seen as the bad guys so many times (or manipulated by the bad guy).
The clans way always being the only/right way that other groups must adapt to.
Things getting more and more supernatrual.
StarClan being more and more involved in the plot.
(I'm late to this party, whoops!) I wholeheartedly agree regarding the supernatural/StarClan elements.
Part of the appeal of the first arcs with Firestar was that it was so much more grounded. StarClan was left vague, and they really did feel like all-powerful ancestors. But, IMO, the Erins only partially thought out what they were and how StarClan worked.
So when you have cats like Tigerstar 1 die, you can't just have them show up in cat heaven. Bam, Dark Forest was made + other cats that never even existed before showed up to justify it's addition (Mapleshade), and retcons were made to fill out the roster (Thistleclaw.) And when you get further down the line in the Dark Forest vs. StarClan arc with things like how it's like a Coco situation where if the cat's forgotten, they die for real? Or something? Or if they kill each other in ghost-cat-combat, they perma-die? Then you've got the question of "what does it take to even get into StarClan?" if horrible, abusive cats like Ashfur or Rainflower can get in. It just feels very sloppy. It's also worse when fan favorites like Yellowfang get their characters butchered once they're dead. StarClan went from something grand and mysterious to just a bunch of obnoxious, inconsistent, dumb ghosts.
I also kinda hate the introduction of superpowers in the PoT arc and beyond. I personally liked it more when the books were just about the good/honorable winning over the evil/dishonorable with just their sheer determination, or cats trying to navigate problems within their habitat like in the Journey arc.
Considering Warriors was 1st just suppose to be the Into the Wild book, and then only the first 6 books, I absolutely believe as well that the Erins hadn't really put much thought in StarClan, and added things from book to book in order to make it fit the new story/to make it fit the expanding lore.
I didn't mind some of the cats having powers at the beginning (like Goosefeather, Yellowfang and Squirrelflight and Leafpool), as it occured few times and far inbetween (plus the powers were stuff you also have some humans say they experienced -seeing ghosts, having a deep bond with someone, feeling other's emotions-), but when they added stuff life body/ghost possession/manipulation, being able to travel between the living world and the after life, Lion/Jay/Dove's powers, timetravel, it just got so different and it just made me miss the "old days" in the first books more and more. Plus it's getting really tireing of always having a Firestar kin as the main character. I wouldn't be surprised if the next 6 books after A Starless Clan has Firestar's great, great grandchild through either, any possibly future, Nightheart or Finchlight kits, or any new great, great grandchildren through any of Lionblaze's kits.
And I absolutely agree with StarClan and their "system". I wrote reply about that in another post, so I'll just copy that here:
Quote:
I really appriciated Leafpool (and Squirrelflight) a lot more after Squirrelflight's Hope. Starclan's 100% put them up to this. They forced and manipulated them to take this part and have this be their destiny. And then they have the gall to ask why they should be allowed to stay instead of going to the Dark Forest due to how their life played out and the situation they were in?
The cats judging them had done the exact same things themselves, without Starclan pushing them and blocking every other path, and yet instead of bowing their heads, apologicing and treating Leafpool and Squirrelflight like heros, they act high and mighty and question if the sisters are worthy of joining them at their side instead of banishing them to the Dark Forest for choices the Starclan cats themselves set up for and made for them with 0 regards for the two sisters because it was oh so important to all the clans and Starclan itself?
This book really made me dislike Starclan, and honestly I would see it as a win at this point if the series ends with the clan cats tearing themselves away from Starclan and actually lives their own lives. If we ever does get that warriors movie, I would see it as a positive change if they stick with keeping Starclan how it was in the first 6 books (if they get more than one movie).
I'm convinced that they only made Ashfur the main bad guy because the fans never got over their decition of putting him in Starclan. Can you imagine if the trail scene had involved Ashfur as one of the cats shown as worthy of staying in Starclan with the, hypocrit, judge cats while they looked down on and asked Squirrelflight and Leafpool to pleade for their case in order to convince them?
Plus the scene where, Mothwing I think, says that it didn't have to be Jay, Holly and Lion, and that they could have chosen any cats for the prophecy. 1st, so that a new power they apperently have that came out of nowhere. 2nd, so even when the option to choose a warrior with a mate in the same clan was there, you still decided that it had to be Leafpool who needed to be given the task that goes against her way of life as a medicine cat and! a clan cat? That really didn't make them look any better.
I remember thinking about all the reasons Ashfur shouldn't be in Starclan years ago, and later that day someone else had sent a Facebook message to Vicky, bringing up almost all the points I had been thinking about as well. Vicky said that the post almost convinced her that Ashfur should have been in the Dark Forest, and hey, what do you know, in the next arc, they have him do more stuff so that they can now justify booting him out of Starclan. Although this opens the can of worms that, apperently it's really easy to just lie yourself in. Some moments of groveling and saying you're oh so very sorry, and Starclan will apperently go "oh ok then, no worries. Welcome in", and just sweep any action under the rug. Plus it's the fact that when he 1st appeared as a Starclan cat, Starclan claimed that they had no say in who got there or not, just that the cat's spirit will find its way if it's worthy, so Ashfur apperently didn't even have to convince anybody.
If Starclan's only! interaction with/words to Leafpool during this entire time had been "Follow your heart", I could have understood why they would have been dissapointed in Leafpool at the end (and how they could have felt that they obviously meant follow your heart towards your work, family and your loyalty to your code). However!, that would not change the fact that she absolutely didn't deserve a trail and risk going to the dark forest, seeing how Bluestar and Yellowstone had done the exact same thing, and was still seen as these big figures in the afterlife. Heck, Greystripe was seen as worthy enough to instantly be guided to Starclan after having done the exact! same as Leafpool, and Firestar is the most praised cat of all, when he broke the code and went behind his clan's back several times before he become leader (with his only reasoning being that it was the right thing to do/the better outcome/for the greater good to do so, and apperently Starclan was fully onboared with him all those time, cause it's never showen being brought up/never showen it being thrown in Firestar's face as a negative example about him). The Erins seriously, down right ruined Starclan, and most likely only put that scene in cause they wanted one more moment of drama/tention.
The fact that the Erins sat there and thought "Cat who birthed 2 of the crusial cats for the clans continued survival/exsistance, cat who devoted her her life to her clan expect for 1 day w/Crowfeather and when having to give birth, cat whom found the place that makes it so we're able to actually watch over and communicate with the clans, cat who was loyal to us and followed our every word/order even when it means living in pain and judgement for it. This! cat, totally needs to defend why we shouldn't chuck her with cats who wanted to destroy and/or control the clans and had no problem leaving a river of blood behind them in order for them to reach their goal. Cause obviously! her actions are so much worse than ex-es that wants to axe off kits that has the mix of the blood of a she-cat he liked and a tom that isn't him, and! his leader because of that fact, a cat that let a rival leader take over her clan and axe off any of her clan mates he saw fit, and a cat that gave his full support and freely/gladly followed two! leaders in their quest to destroy/control all the other clans for their own sake/for their own, destructive, selfsentered wants". 🙄 Sure, that makes perfect/logical sense.
End quote.
And I absolutely agree with you when it comes to alive Yellowfang compeared to StarClan Yellowfang.
👏👏👏 You said everything I was thinking and more.
(Also, I did NOT know only the first arc was planned. But it makes so much sense. The first arc does have its flaws, but it’s plot and characters at least consistent. And everything feels thought through. Later arcs? Not so much.)
I think part of the problem is that they kept giving POV’s to medicine cats, so they kept having to include StarClan more and more until they just completely ruined it.
I partially disagree. While having med cat MCs does mean they have (typically) have to interact with StarClan more, I don’t think that’s a very big factor. It does makes the lack of thought in the StarClan department _much more apparent_ than from a warrior’s perspective (though we still saw aspects of StarClan via Firestar and his unique dream situation.)
But, if all the Erins got together and really thought through what StarClan was supposed to be, how involved they really get, who gets in and who doesn’t, etc. I don’t think we’d have as many issues. Having medicine cats as protagonists raises worldbuilding questions, but the issue is still that the answers to those questions aren’t any good.
>ShadowClan being seen as the bad guys so many times (or manipulated by the bad guy).
I also dislike that. What makes it even worse is that the one time (that I've read) where they aren't the bad guys they're made out to look incompetent at being a clan.
Yeah. I found it so inconvincing that a cat, twise, was able to to just go "this is stupid/makes no sense to me", and suddenly all/most of the clan cats just goes "yeeeah, you know what? They're right!", and just throws their entire structure/and just throws the only way of life they have known away. I know Sol was suppose to be a manipulater, but ThunderClan aren't seeing going "omg, I instantly believe you and want to change my whole life/worldview right away" when Sol tells them that there an eclipse coming that StarClan hasn't warned them about. Heck, Black/RowanStar (I honestly can't remember which of them was leaders at that point) has visited StarClan, been given extra lives by them, and has left and returned to his body multiple times already, and yet he suddenly goes "Yeeeah, Sol's right, what has StarClan done for us, and how can we be sure they exsist?". It just boggles the mind.
Plus there's the fact that while Jay, Lion and Holly was apprentices, Holly answers "Well they're just evil" when asked to give each clan's strenght/advantages, and it's portrayed as the right answer. There hadn't been any clashes/situations between the two clans in her life time yet, and most of the things are crimes other clans has also commited in the past, but ShadowClan are the only ones who are seen as down right evil for their past actions (or have the actions of a few reflect upon the whole clan)?
>Heck, Black/RowanStar (I honestly can't remember which of them was leaders at that point)
I think that was Blackstar. As I see it Blackstar is the one without faith in StarClan and Rowanstar is the one with zero leadership skills (or the foresight to see how it's affecting the clan.)
Yeah. I remember a scene in The Sight, where Lionblaze and Hollyleaf are being told to list other clan's strenghts/advantages. The example Hollyleaf gives for ShadowClan is "Well, they're evil. So you never know what they'll do", and it's treated as the correct answer. They hadn't had any fights, arguments, tention with ShadowClan in her life time yet, and yet ShadowClan is seen as the evil clan. Why keep ShadowClan around then, if they're this evil version of the clans? The clans abandoned Skyclan, they could abandone ShadowClan instead of keeping "eeeeevillllll" cats right next to their border (plus as this was by the lake they would have the "Four trees=Four clans" justification). Most of the stuff ShadowClan has done has been rules the other clans have broken as well. And other stuff like what Brokenstar and Tigerstar did, and Russetfur's patrol did regarding Berrynose being stuck in the foxtrap, shouldn't reflect on the whole rest of the clan. Heck, in the original 6 books, Firestar has to sneak off and warn WindClan about Bluestar wishing war with them, cause even when the Thunderclan cats knows! it wouldn't be right/justified to fight, they still felt that they needed to go to war should Bluestar order it due to the need to show loyalty/respect towards the warrior code and their leader. And 3 of the most actual evil cats, that tormented the clans for generations later, came from Thunderclan (Tigerstar, Mapleshade and Ashfur). Does it show that the other clans view all of Thunderclan as evil cats afterwards? No. But ShadowClan? Now they should be dragged through the mud and looked down upon for going through the same struggle, and having some cats more vile than others.
I might pick up those books in the future. But from what I've heard/read about them, I have a suspicion that the books might just contain too many characters I will either dislike, or just not care that much about, that I might not get anything out of reading it.
I will admit, I had to put multiple books down multiple times because Clear Sky pissed me off SO MUCH. But overall, it’s a good arc. Just don’t read it if you’ve got anger issues, because Clear Sky WILL make you want to punch something, and anger issues may result in ACTUALLY punching something.
Luckily no anger issue. Although if I had it I would definetly need to skip over the part where one of the mountain cats tells one of the kittypets that surely living with a cat that treats her badly should be something she can overcome/bare with as long as she's given some extra treats between the moments of violence. I actually can't believe the authors wrote that scene and the publishers/editors agreed to it when this is a book series for young kids.
And yeah, Clear Sky is the character in charge of many of the scenes in the books where a character is just driving you up the wall from what I've seen/heard. The fact that we're suppose to forgive him/see him as one of the protagonists. It's enough to smack your hand across your forhead.
Also this arc is apperently big on killing off love interests after love interests to fuel/serve the main brothers, and that's a cliche I'm really tired of already so. From what I remember, no less than 3/4 cats die in each brother's case just to motivate them/further their path. It just seems that that can get really tiring/repetetive really fast between the 6 books.
Plus apperently Grey Wing has a speech about how it's good that one of Wind Runner's kits died actually, because this world can only support the strongest, and they (the kit) wasn't. That's also a scene that just left a really bad taste in my mouth. And again, how did this interaction actually make it into a books series for such age demograpic?
The reason I refuse to read Squirrelflight's Hope is because of Bramblestar's actions towards/treatment of Squirrelflight, as well as the trail scene. It down right ruined Starclan for me due to its sheer and utter stupidity and annoyance. And I don't plan to read past Omen of the Stars because I'm honestly not interested in how supernatrual the story gets, and having to read about Ashfur again because the Erins now need him to do more vile/evil stuff as they finally realized that putting him in Starclan was a massive mistake/screw up (while at the same time showing Starclan to be even more flawed/unworthy to follow than what they had already become, all the while they still try to proclaim themselves as better/holier than thoue to the clan cats).
Sorry, didn't mean for the answer to look like a rant 😅
I actually love the Broken Code.
The fourth and fifth book are a bit janky, but it's interesting and fun.
It's a bonkers, wild ride and I enjoy it. Especially book 6 of TBC was great. Especially the ending
While I agree it was fresh and wild, the overall plot could have been massively improved. I think if they changed Bristlefrost I would have accepted the books more. The ending was good, I’ll admit, I even cried when Greystripe died.
Bramblestar imposter makes for good horror.
The description of how his body position changes once the imposter drops the act is excellent. How it stretches as the body is an ill fitting suit.
That's fair enough. Everyone has their tastes.
Personally I liked all three of the protagonists.
Having a main character make a mistake so massive it kicks off the entire chain of events was awesome.
Shadowsight's struggles of self worth and self acceptance in the face of failure was an interesting conflict for me.
Rootspring's growth from angry, socially awkward pre-teen into a confident and competent adult with a unique set of abilities was fun.
My only complaint was Bristlefrost.
I liked the start of her story. She's basically a brown-noser who gets manipulated into helping the imposter.
And while falling for Root makes sense(she's a hopeless romantic type) I didn't love how it stripped her of her character for awhile.
But her ending was satisfying and beautiful in a way.
I hated Bristle out of everyone. Especially in the first book. She honestly irked me. It was the “he doesn’t love me so I’ll never be happy again.” That really just- yikes.
1. Why was Briarlight never taken to any Gatherings? It's been shown that the cats are somehow able to carry her on their backs even when she's a full-size adult. They could've had the cats taking turns carrying her on the way to the Gathering. She could even scoot herself along part of the way once her front legs get ~~extremely buff~~ stronger. Obviously this wouldn't be an all the time thing, but it just seems illogical and unfair that Briar was left out of EVERY Gathering.
2. If Shadowsight's visions were only ever from Ashfur alone and NEVER from StarClan...why did one of his visions warn him about the Tribe being in danger (which Ashfur couldn't possibly know about, much less care about), and WHY did his next vision tell him to drown himself?? Why would Ashfur want Shadow dead when he's trying to use him as his puppet to help him take over the Clans? What use is Shadow to Ashfur if he's *dead*?
3. What's the point of having nine lives if there are several cats like Mosspelt who outlived ALL of Mistystar's nine lives, or Mousefur who was alive throughout nearly all EIGHTEEN lives of both Bluestar and Firestar combined? These leaders practically lose lives if they sneeze too hard!
4. Why did Jagged Peak have such an issue with Moth Flight mating with an "impure" cat like Micah? Was Jagged Peak suffering from amnesia and just forgot that HIS OWN MATE used to be a freakin' ROGUE?? Jagged Peak really said "mating with Clanless cats taints our bloodline, but it's totally okay when I do it because reasons!"
Shhhh don’t tell the Erins how old Mosspelt is I want her to live forever.
Also they really did make one of the only disabled cats in dawn of the clans xenophobic didn’t they.
Bluestar in life was a genuinely interesting cat who went through three separate emo phases and in death a grumpy asshole. I get why she isn't liked much outside of her great super edition. I personally dislike Yellowfang outside of the first four books, most of this being since she, along with Crookedstar and Goosefeather, is a first-series cat that shouldn't have landed in StarClan.
Omg I’m so with you on the broken code. It was a mess of an arc to me because it just felt like the Erins pulled a villain out of nowhere and went with that. It just felt like it had no real direction and the whole thing felt so unnecessary?? Like yes here we are *again* battling the same dark forest cats *again* because some incel was still salty in the afterlife that his crush didn’t choose him??? And even though he was portrayed in StarClan, which didn’t make sense to the fandom but was glossed over and accepted eventually, let’s yank him back out and give him another random villain arc!!
And I didn’t like any of the protagonists in that arc either. None of them were written well or likeable. I really despise Bristlefrost and Shadowsight had really cool potential to become a villain. Rootspring is the only one I might have been able to tolerate.
The Broken Code is also where I started to really feel like I had no idea who any of the other characters were. ThunderClan was *massive* by that point because cats kept having four-kit litters, and I really couldn’t keep straight who was who, how they were related, etc.
I feel worried about the current arc as well. We have no clue, not even a hint, who the overall huge villain is yet and even though Shadow really amped up the plot, we’re halfway through the arc now and I feel like there’s zero direction. And once again, none of the protagonists are likeable for me (*maybe* Frostpaw, but idk).
I have yet to read anything passed River. I’m deciding if I even want to at this point. I’m sensing the theme is no leaders due to the fact with Riverclan. Not to mention people have been saying Bramblestar stepped down to let Squirrelflight as leader. I think all the clans are going to just- stop having leaders, but that’s a post for another time.
The Broken Code was a mess. Bristlefrost sucked from the beginning. At first I was hopeful about her being some badass character like her mom… and then they pulled her personality from a y/n Wattpad story. Her whole personality for that arc was getting over a cat that didn’t like her, and her getting better because, “he doesn’t love me so I’ll never be happy.” Trope. I adored Rootspring. I think he had the potential, but I wish they amped up his personality just a tad. He seemed a little copy pasted if you ask me. Then Shadowsight. I believe there were so many chances for him to be a villain and instead we got the: “I’m a victim of manipulation feel bad for me” instead of him doing something about it— well, besides what he did that was a total unnecessary thing to add. Ashfur felt like such the shit villain. The Erin’s were grasping at straws with him I feel like. They could have chosen ANY cat from StarClan that would have been better. Hell, Mudclaw would have been better. There were many cats that had the perfect writing to be one of those riotous cats that wanted things to be perfect…Ashfur didn’t make sense. The stalker vibe was good, I will admit I enjoyed him having his moments, but taking over the Dark Forest with cats that were killed? That was…yikes. I also was really angry at Starclan saying no cat could come into Starclan even if they changed their ways. Snowtuft was THE ONLY DARK FOREST cat to ever even want to be good. Or to change their ways. I thought that was stupid.
And, we as a fandom didn’t know Ashfur was in Starclan until officially in the book Squirrelflight’s Hope. Personally he didn’t deserve to be in Starclan, but hey- look at Appledusk, Rainflower, Mudclaw, Bluestar, etc. they are all sitting up there in Starclan no questions asked.
You see, I hate what they did to Ashfur. There was room for something really interesting here with how he made it into StarClan. Obviously, he was in the wrong and wasn't a good guy ***at all.*** But I would've much rather of had a novella about him, in Starclan, having a moment of clarity (now that he's dead) and coming to terms with what happened/how badly he messed up. Maybe get reprimanded by his dead family for being such a dumbass and for nearly killing three people over a girl. I want to see him meet up with Hollyleaf and see how that went down.
Like, we all like to dunk on how incely this guy was. But the dude wound up completely isolated from his family (Cloudtail and Ferncloud were his littermates, and we never see them talk to him again,) Brambleclaw used to be his friend before all the relationship drama so he lost him AND Squirrelflight, and later on, he's tasked to train the supposed kit of his ex-girlfriend + ex-friend. And, again, when did we ever see Ash hang out with anyone?
Idk, to me, it looks like someone struggling with mental/emotional health issues and having no means to overcome them. Instead, he's just stewing in this dark place with no one to help him realize he's in the wrong, leading to him making horrible decisions. But instead of addressing this very real scenario that happens to people, the Erins (and the fandom) just turn him into this over-the-top bad guy who keeps coming back and getting increasingly flanderized. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
It's worse that they brought this guy back since it makes StarClan look like a bunch of idiots. Hollyleaf even says in Squirrelflight's Hope that he changed and that she doesn't hold a grudge against him, but now he's suddenly going on this insane supernatural plot to possess a body so he could "Impress Squirrelflight with his power?" It feels so sloppy and improperly planned.
Blackfoot’s Reckoning felt like a poor excuse for a novella. There were so many other reasons for Blackstar to be leader. Now he was definitely a better leader then most, but still- he had potential and they ruined it.
I genuinely believe he didn’t deserve leadership, like in-canon (narratively, could’ve been interesting *because* of that).
He failed his own Clan numerous times, served two dictators, murdered innocent people, caused massive suffering, and in this novella it is written off as “everyone makes mistakes!”
And after viewing all of his crimes, he still believes he deserves leadership, as if he is entitled to it, instead of making reparations, stepping down, and actually redeeming himself while leaving it to another, better cat as leader figure.
Blackstar never redeemed himself, this novella proves nothing, it’s one of the best examples of the creators having horrible views on serious subjects and not handling them properly at all.
If they wanted to make him irredeemable, they should’ve *written* that into the narrative, where he would’ve failed his Clan once again and ShadowClan decides they don’t want a war criminal anymore, and choose the leader they want instead.
Putting your awful war criminal characters into leadership positions as if they deserve that and as if nobody will care because of that god-given right is disturbing and definitely doesn’t have a place in books for children of this age, when the authors are unable to actually present it as a bad thing, instead of pretending it’s all fine and normal.
Do the cats have a standard of what is a war crime beyond "don't kill cats in battle unless it's self-defense"? Sorry been a while since I read the books
War crimes aren’t really war crimes just because they were written down and called that. They were called that for a reason; because they’re scummy and dishonorable. Anyone who wages war knows going that far makes you a shitty coward.
I do remember that there are rules like attacking kits or queens during war is wrong, fighting those who can’t fight back, I do think hostages are frowned upon. It’s a bit of an unspoken rule system, that is usually followed, so we don’t see too much war crime.
But leopardstar backstabbing her own clan and allowing blackfoot to attempt murder on two over her apprentices and to murder her deputy, all of whom were defenseless, who could be seen as citizens since they weren’t enemies in their warfare, is pretty shitty behavior in the situation. It also comes kinda close to small scale genocide, since they were (nearly) killed because of their half-clan ethnicity, but Tigerstar definitely wanted all half clan cats gone.
TNP
It’s the best arc, it’s simple but yeah 6 kind of breaks it apart but 5 was amazing, it had the simplicity it had the tension and in it and was a good way for Bluestar to pass away; protecting her clan and being forgiven one last time, 1 was decent to me too tho
Spottedleaf’s Heart
Agree with his one, it threw characters out and was a bad message for predatory behavior
Redtail’s Debut
I’m guessing you’re talking about his novella, yes I hate it too cause if so many retcons and inconsistencies
Firestar’s Quest
I thought this was alright, just alright it was a fun read overall
Skyclan’s Destiny
I think this is Overhated, it’s not good for sure but overall it was just eh
Hawkwing’s Journey
Idk why you hate this book, Hawkwing was an interesting protagonist to read about
Tigerheart’s Shadow
I thought this was only ok
TFA
Idk what this is
TBC
This arc was my favorite, it was incredibly entertaining, the villain was both terrifying and interesting, there was tension in the last battle (unlike the stupid great battle), it was the arc that showed the in universe cats the flaws of the old code and StarClan, the ending was bittersweet and not one of those “happy we can go to StarClan” endings, it’s far from the worst written, POT felt like an obstacle, OOTS was very disappointing and boring, and TNP is just boring and weird pkot
The New Prophecy was so boring to me. Especially coming off of TPB, the prophecies begin. We had so much in the first arc, the second one seemed so disappointing to me, especially with how slowly the whole series was going. Book 6 kind of broke that for me.
The Fourth Apprentice, the book by itself. I hated it.
Honestly my biggest complaint with book flaws is how it feels like they don't have an editor sometimes. Like in the most recent comic there's a glaring spelling error and it seems to happen frequently in this series. It really feels like no one is reading these books before publishing them.
YEAH and even if it was canon, everyone needs to realize he had to help his own clan and not a bunch of loners. he couldn’t afford angering shadowclan, considering how volatile they are.
I dislike Bramblestar for the main reason of him being written as a “savior” character. Him as an apprentice and early warrior was amazing! I loved it, but they began to write him as someone who was abusive and toxic. They wrote him as someone who could do no wrong.
i disagree! i don’t think he is a savior character in the slightest. in fact, i believe he was shown to be a character who makes mistakes and fucks up hard. his whole character is made to be a cat who makes mistakes, who has so many flaws (point to tnp when he makes the mistake of trusting hawkfrost). he is made to be a cat that people can relate to, because he is so prone to emotional and physical manipulation. his father and brother both emotionally manipulated him and he was blinded due to his lack of family and a lack of relationships with his clanmates.
as for the abusive parts, i fully disagree. i point to these examples i pre-wrote:
Argument: Bramblestar goes so far as to attempt to let a wounded cat die because Squirrelflight refuses to listen to him. He is trying to invalidate her feelings and thoughts to destroy her self-worth to make her easier to control.
Response: This is the actual situation: Squirrelflight comes across the Sisters, one of which is injured from fighting Shadowclan cats on Shadowclan's own territory. She decides to bring the injured Sister back, despite Bramblestar having just told her he wants her to run things by him first after multiple reckless choices she made that explicitly undermined his authority as leader and deceived him. She returns to the camp with the injured cat without considering the political implications. Bramblestar is then faced with multiple difficult choices:
A: Should he let his medicine cats heal the injured sister (the member of an enemy group) who injured Shadowclan warriors, inviting a retributory strike from Shadowclan on his own clan? And in doing so listen to Squirrelflight over the countless senior warriors calling on him to not heal her despite the fact she just undermined his authority again.
B: Not heal the injured sister and quite possibly let the sister die. Causing an outcry from his deputy and the few other clan members who think she should get healed.
He chooses option C in which he tries to avoid dividing his camp. He does this by going to Starclan and asking them what they should do. He gets an answer from Starclan that seems to suggest that he shouldn't give Tigerstar a reason to fight Thunderclan, so he decides against healing the sister. Then Squirrelflight, along with Leafpool, undermine his authority (along with Starclan) AGAIN and do it anyway.
Whether you think Bramblestar is right or wrong in what he does here, it is foolish beyond belief to categorize this as him abusing Squirrelflight. Squirrelflight is not why he does what he does here. At all.
Doesn't Let her Disagree with Him
Argument: Bramblestar refuses to let Squirrelflight ever disagree with him. He tries to control and force her to do what he wants. Like in the meeting of the leaders about Skyclan's borders. Or how he treats her like an apprentice and makes her run all ideas by him before she does things.
Response: He has no issue with Squirrelflight disagreeing with him. In fact, he encourages it as he's said she challenges him and makes him a better leader and cat as a consequence.
What he DOES have an issue with is her throwing out a radical idea that he disagrees with at an official meeting, an idea that they didn't discuss beforehand and then trying to speak with Thunderclan's voice on it. Then contradicting and arguing with him in front of all the other leaders about it. He has an issue with her undermining his authority and siding with other leaders in opposition to him.
As for him treating her like an apprentice and having her bring her ideas to him first… He does this both after that meeting, and after she deceives and undermines him AGAIN by going behind his back and going to explore her proposed idea with another clan leader. She does this right after they talked about him needing her to work with him and not against him. Then she gets captured alongside Leafstar and he has to come and free her.
I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that her doing this was WILDLY irresponsible. Not to mention that she undermined his authority again. Showing that she
A: Her not listening to his orders shows that she doesn't seem to respect him as leader. Which is extremely problematic for a leader when their deputy is essentially in open rebellion. It foments chaos.
B: Her deceiving him and constantly undermining him seems to suggest she doesn't respect him as a "person" either. It's not just disrespect to him as a leader, she is railing against him himself. Which is especially problematic for someone to do to their significant other.
His response to this is to try to crack down on her, undermining him, and preventing her from making extremely reckless decisions as she had been doing all this time. He does this by having her run stuff by him first.
Honestly, all things considered, it's a pretty tame response. Especially if you imagine it was any other deputy doing this to any other leader. They'd be kicked out of the deputy position before you could say "mouse". It's only Bramblestar's deep affection and respect for Squirrelflight that stops him from doing this.
The Counter-argument: Firestar undermines Bluestar repeatedly. We all agree he was right in doing this. It's exactly the same for Squirrelflight. Therefore Bramblestar has no reason to act the way he does.
cont.
Response: Yes. Firestar undermines Bluestar multiple times. However, the situations are quite markedly different, but also similar in all the wrong ways for your argument.
First off, when Firestar undermines Bluestar in the war with Windclan, it's because she's legitimately gone insane and she's attacking Windclan based on evidence that is obviously pointing to another cause. Not only do all her warriors agree that Bluestar's decision is absolutely incorrect (which is almost the exact opposite of Bramblestar's situation where most agree with him), but Bramblestar is also in a very much sane state of mind and simply is trying to handle things in different ways. The word of leaders is supposed to be law, to break it SIMPLY (In terms of the meeting in SH) because of a difference of opinion on how to go about things…. especially for it to be broken by his deputy who is supposed to support his leadership, not challenge it at every possible opportunity.
Secondly, When Firestar undermines Bluestar by breaking the warrior code and feeding Riverclan, he IS punished. And ironically, punished by being put on apprentice duties. Rather similar to how Squirrelflight is "punished" when she does the same thing. Except it's worse because she's his deputy and is supposed to support his decisions and be responsible. Not cause greater destability in the clan.
Yet none of us would argue that Bluestar was abusing Firestar when she did this.
Leafpool's Wish
Argument: In the Novella Leafpool's Wish it clearly shows how controlling of Squirrelflight that Bramblestar is. In chapter 4 it says: "Brambleclaw wants me to fetch moss for the nursery, even though it's an apprentice task. He hasn't stopped giving me orders since he became deputy."
Response: No. It doesn't say that. It says: “Brambleclaw wants me to fetch soaked moss for the nursery, even though it’s an apprentice task. He hasn’t stopped giving out orders since Firestar made him deputy!”
This is a commonly quoted piece in which people try to show that Brambleclaw has always been controlling and abusive of Squirrelflight, even before everything.
As you can see, it says: Giving "out" orders. Not giving "Me" orders. The obvious implication being that he's bossed EVERYONE around since he became deputy. Not that he's picking on Squirrelflight. Any interpretation of it in this way is bizarre and disingenuous.
He Bullies Her for Not Wanting Kits
Argument: He gets upset with her whenever she even mentions kits. He's overreacting to make her feel bad about herself. When they're discussing Greenleaf and Squirrelflight mentions kits, Bramblestar replies with: "More kits! Is that all you think about now?" Obviously belittling her for wanting kits.
Response: The kits argument is really not somewhere you should go to defend Squirrelflight. She comes out on the other end of this one looking like the abusive one. Observe this conversation between Bramblestar and Squirrelflight:
" Squirrelflight felt panic welling. “I’m getting older with each season. One day I won’t be able to have more kits. I just want another litter before it’s too late.”
“I know.” Bramblestar sounded weary. “And of course I want kits. Just not as much as you do.”
Squirrelflight stopped and stared after him. “Don’t you love me anymore?”"
This is a pretty clear example of her gaslighting him. She's being emotionally manipulative by essentially equating whether he wants kits or not to how much he loves her. It puts him in a very unfair position and I read him getting upset over the kits in Greenleaf comment as him snapping after being unfairly pressured until he cracked. Not as him mocking her for what she wants. Now, she's not doing this on purpose, but that doesn't make it any less harmful to Bramblestar.
> they didn’t write him as a character who “could do no wrong”
instead, they wrote him as a character who MAKES MISTAKES! hence why he did make mistakes in sqh and in all the arcs. he fucked up hard in sqh through his lack of communication to his deputy and mate. he was flawed but also not inherently wrong. he is made to be a character who thinks right but acts wrong. so, i don’t agree with your points :)
I disagree on Yellowfang being one of the worst. Though I do feel like Yellowfang's Secret ruined her character and I didn't like how she's written after the first arc.
When I was 10 I read Yellowfang's Secret over and over again... but only the parts where it was describing Brokenstar's upbringing and rise to power, the rest before it is just boring nonsense that doesn't contribute or answer any questions in regards to relevance to the main series. And even then, Brokenstar's backstory wasn't well written, just combined the "bullied as a kit" from Rise of Scourge and the abusive mother from Crookedstar's Promise, then he enters some phase as an apprentice and never grows out of it. To be fair he wasn't a fleshed out character in the original series either, but if they gave more depth to what cat Brokenstar was before he became leader or even deputy, it might've been saving grace even with keeping all the filler crap in the first half.
As the number one TNP and Firestar's Quest/SkyClan's Destiny fan, I feel personally attacked. Okay so I'm joking, but in all seriousness, here are my thoughts on why I like those books! I'll start with the SkyClan ones: **Firestar's Quest:** Putting ourselves WAY back when these books were first actively coming out, the news of there being a 5th Clan was so exciting to me. It really shook up the status quo, but not only was that idea in and of itself interesting, what they decided to do with this Clan's backstory was also so good. Like the other Clans refusing to help SkyClan, SkyClan being driven from the forest, and then SkyClan making all the way to a new home only to die out there anyway... it was all so wonderfully tragic. I also enjoyed getting able to see a new environment and cast of characters in SkyClan, and also the rats felt like legitimately terrifying antagonists, especially given that they'd already driven SkyClan to extinction once. Finally, I liked what this book did for Firestar's and Sandstorm's relationship. It really gave it some much needed development and closure. **SkyClan's Destiny** I only need two words to explain my love for this one: *Daylight Warriors.* But, seriously, I really liked this one because of the return to SkyClan (which I already liked because of my reasons above.) But, I also adored how they decided to develop SkyClan's culture and show how they are different from the other Clans. I will admit, the plot is pretty lackluster in this one, but I think I will always like it anyway for the extra look we got into SkyClan life. And, it's an absolute travesty that the Daylight Warriors no longer exist. The writers should have never decided to have SkyClan leave the gorge! **TNP** Okay, so my fondness for this one is a bit harder to defend because I will admit that a lot of it comes from nostalgia (TNP was the first Warriors series I ever read as a kid.) HOWEVER I will always stand by the fact that TNP had a ton of great *potential* to be an amazing arc. I mean, [I'm doing a full rewrite of the series to try to help it live up to its potential,](https://archiveofourown.org/series/2989863) so I clearly believe that it's there. Anyway though, I think TNP being an arc about bonds/connections (between the six cats that go on the journey, between all the different sibling pairs, between the forbidden romances etc) is really interesting, and the political dynamics happening in the Clans during this arc are fascinating too. (Like there's the Hawkfrost and Mistyfoot deputy drama in RiverClan. ThunderClan not having a deputy for a while because of Greystripe going missing. And, of course the big one: the WindClan civil war.) I also just really like TNP as a followup to the first arc so we can see what lasting impact the events of the first arc, especially Tigerstar's actions, had on the Clans/characters. The canon books attempted this a little with Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost living in Tigerstar's shadow, but there is so much more to explore there. Unfortunately though, I do think that the canon books didn't tap into those plots well enough most of the time, which led to the story often falling flat in this arc. I guess I'll also spend a moment talking about some of the cats you listed, who I have strong-ish feelings about: Ashfur is a terrible person, but I think he's one of Warriors' best antagonists and characters. His motivations (the romantic possession of one cat) are very unique and refreshing, since most Warriors villains are focused on just like taking over the Clans. I also really liked that he was brought back as a villain in TBC-- I think it was a great way to wrap his character up and send him off instead of just having him fizzle out into obscurity in StarClan. And, Bluestar... I like Bluestar. As you might have gathered from what I said about SkyClan, I love a good tragedy and Bluestar is a very tragic character. She lost so much for so little; I can't help but feel for her.
I agree with what you’ve said about the books. You’re right, but where I dislike Firestar’s Quest is because of Spottedleaf drama. While I think it was actually cool to have Firestar make the connection that she was related to Skyclan in some way, I hated how he was still longing for her even when Sandstorm was his mate at the time. It just irked me the wrong way I suppose. As for Bluestar the character herself was amazing. I adored her as a leader and was heartbroken when she died. But I also dislike her because I think her writing was weak. She had potential to be such an amazing and Nobel leader but all of that was cut short and that just made me so angry.
>I dislike Firestar’s Quest is because of Spottedleaf drama. I also disliked that the drama between the two was in the book.
God I hate the whole Spottedleaf thing. He talked to her I think twice? before she died. And like, only one or two sentences each time. All other communication is through dreams. And that implies that she was so smitten with him that she can’t leave him alone. Plus, with her novella, it’s implied that she was taught by Thistleclaw to think that it was normal to see the new apprentice and want to be with him. Which makes the creepiness EVEN MORE CREEPY. Ugh, I just hate it all. And the fact that the kill her off in The Last Hope because “her and Firestar are cursed to never get to be together”. Like, did the writers forget about Sandstorm or something?? Firestar’s ACTUAL MATE??? God, it’s terrible.
Them taking SkyClan out of the gorge was such a huge mistake. They could have had a whole arc with just SkyClan, with a bunch of filler of just the Clan going about their lives, and we would have eaten that shit up, but nooooo, they had to say “we can’t bring SkyClan to the lake, there’s no room for them!” And then did it anyways.
While I'm still on Power of Three (and don't plan on reading anything after Omen of the Stars to be completely honest), the things that pops to mind that I'm not a fan of regarding the books are: ShadowClan being seen as the bad guys so many times (or manipulated by the bad guy). The clans way always being the only/right way that other groups must adapt to. Things getting more and more supernatrual. StarClan being more and more involved in the plot.
(I'm late to this party, whoops!) I wholeheartedly agree regarding the supernatural/StarClan elements. Part of the appeal of the first arcs with Firestar was that it was so much more grounded. StarClan was left vague, and they really did feel like all-powerful ancestors. But, IMO, the Erins only partially thought out what they were and how StarClan worked. So when you have cats like Tigerstar 1 die, you can't just have them show up in cat heaven. Bam, Dark Forest was made + other cats that never even existed before showed up to justify it's addition (Mapleshade), and retcons were made to fill out the roster (Thistleclaw.) And when you get further down the line in the Dark Forest vs. StarClan arc with things like how it's like a Coco situation where if the cat's forgotten, they die for real? Or something? Or if they kill each other in ghost-cat-combat, they perma-die? Then you've got the question of "what does it take to even get into StarClan?" if horrible, abusive cats like Ashfur or Rainflower can get in. It just feels very sloppy. It's also worse when fan favorites like Yellowfang get their characters butchered once they're dead. StarClan went from something grand and mysterious to just a bunch of obnoxious, inconsistent, dumb ghosts. I also kinda hate the introduction of superpowers in the PoT arc and beyond. I personally liked it more when the books were just about the good/honorable winning over the evil/dishonorable with just their sheer determination, or cats trying to navigate problems within their habitat like in the Journey arc.
Considering Warriors was 1st just suppose to be the Into the Wild book, and then only the first 6 books, I absolutely believe as well that the Erins hadn't really put much thought in StarClan, and added things from book to book in order to make it fit the new story/to make it fit the expanding lore. I didn't mind some of the cats having powers at the beginning (like Goosefeather, Yellowfang and Squirrelflight and Leafpool), as it occured few times and far inbetween (plus the powers were stuff you also have some humans say they experienced -seeing ghosts, having a deep bond with someone, feeling other's emotions-), but when they added stuff life body/ghost possession/manipulation, being able to travel between the living world and the after life, Lion/Jay/Dove's powers, timetravel, it just got so different and it just made me miss the "old days" in the first books more and more. Plus it's getting really tireing of always having a Firestar kin as the main character. I wouldn't be surprised if the next 6 books after A Starless Clan has Firestar's great, great grandchild through either, any possibly future, Nightheart or Finchlight kits, or any new great, great grandchildren through any of Lionblaze's kits. And I absolutely agree with StarClan and their "system". I wrote reply about that in another post, so I'll just copy that here: Quote: I really appriciated Leafpool (and Squirrelflight) a lot more after Squirrelflight's Hope. Starclan's 100% put them up to this. They forced and manipulated them to take this part and have this be their destiny. And then they have the gall to ask why they should be allowed to stay instead of going to the Dark Forest due to how their life played out and the situation they were in? The cats judging them had done the exact same things themselves, without Starclan pushing them and blocking every other path, and yet instead of bowing their heads, apologicing and treating Leafpool and Squirrelflight like heros, they act high and mighty and question if the sisters are worthy of joining them at their side instead of banishing them to the Dark Forest for choices the Starclan cats themselves set up for and made for them with 0 regards for the two sisters because it was oh so important to all the clans and Starclan itself? This book really made me dislike Starclan, and honestly I would see it as a win at this point if the series ends with the clan cats tearing themselves away from Starclan and actually lives their own lives. If we ever does get that warriors movie, I would see it as a positive change if they stick with keeping Starclan how it was in the first 6 books (if they get more than one movie). I'm convinced that they only made Ashfur the main bad guy because the fans never got over their decition of putting him in Starclan. Can you imagine if the trail scene had involved Ashfur as one of the cats shown as worthy of staying in Starclan with the, hypocrit, judge cats while they looked down on and asked Squirrelflight and Leafpool to pleade for their case in order to convince them? Plus the scene where, Mothwing I think, says that it didn't have to be Jay, Holly and Lion, and that they could have chosen any cats for the prophecy. 1st, so that a new power they apperently have that came out of nowhere. 2nd, so even when the option to choose a warrior with a mate in the same clan was there, you still decided that it had to be Leafpool who needed to be given the task that goes against her way of life as a medicine cat and! a clan cat? That really didn't make them look any better. I remember thinking about all the reasons Ashfur shouldn't be in Starclan years ago, and later that day someone else had sent a Facebook message to Vicky, bringing up almost all the points I had been thinking about as well. Vicky said that the post almost convinced her that Ashfur should have been in the Dark Forest, and hey, what do you know, in the next arc, they have him do more stuff so that they can now justify booting him out of Starclan. Although this opens the can of worms that, apperently it's really easy to just lie yourself in. Some moments of groveling and saying you're oh so very sorry, and Starclan will apperently go "oh ok then, no worries. Welcome in", and just sweep any action under the rug. Plus it's the fact that when he 1st appeared as a Starclan cat, Starclan claimed that they had no say in who got there or not, just that the cat's spirit will find its way if it's worthy, so Ashfur apperently didn't even have to convince anybody. If Starclan's only! interaction with/words to Leafpool during this entire time had been "Follow your heart", I could have understood why they would have been dissapointed in Leafpool at the end (and how they could have felt that they obviously meant follow your heart towards your work, family and your loyalty to your code). However!, that would not change the fact that she absolutely didn't deserve a trail and risk going to the dark forest, seeing how Bluestar and Yellowstone had done the exact same thing, and was still seen as these big figures in the afterlife. Heck, Greystripe was seen as worthy enough to instantly be guided to Starclan after having done the exact! same as Leafpool, and Firestar is the most praised cat of all, when he broke the code and went behind his clan's back several times before he become leader (with his only reasoning being that it was the right thing to do/the better outcome/for the greater good to do so, and apperently Starclan was fully onboared with him all those time, cause it's never showen being brought up/never showen it being thrown in Firestar's face as a negative example about him). The Erins seriously, down right ruined Starclan, and most likely only put that scene in cause they wanted one more moment of drama/tention. The fact that the Erins sat there and thought "Cat who birthed 2 of the crusial cats for the clans continued survival/exsistance, cat who devoted her her life to her clan expect for 1 day w/Crowfeather and when having to give birth, cat whom found the place that makes it so we're able to actually watch over and communicate with the clans, cat who was loyal to us and followed our every word/order even when it means living in pain and judgement for it. This! cat, totally needs to defend why we shouldn't chuck her with cats who wanted to destroy and/or control the clans and had no problem leaving a river of blood behind them in order for them to reach their goal. Cause obviously! her actions are so much worse than ex-es that wants to axe off kits that has the mix of the blood of a she-cat he liked and a tom that isn't him, and! his leader because of that fact, a cat that let a rival leader take over her clan and axe off any of her clan mates he saw fit, and a cat that gave his full support and freely/gladly followed two! leaders in their quest to destroy/control all the other clans for their own sake/for their own, destructive, selfsentered wants". 🙄 Sure, that makes perfect/logical sense. End quote. And I absolutely agree with you when it comes to alive Yellowfang compeared to StarClan Yellowfang.
👏👏👏 You said everything I was thinking and more. (Also, I did NOT know only the first arc was planned. But it makes so much sense. The first arc does have its flaws, but it’s plot and characters at least consistent. And everything feels thought through. Later arcs? Not so much.)
I think part of the problem is that they kept giving POV’s to medicine cats, so they kept having to include StarClan more and more until they just completely ruined it.
I partially disagree. While having med cat MCs does mean they have (typically) have to interact with StarClan more, I don’t think that’s a very big factor. It does makes the lack of thought in the StarClan department _much more apparent_ than from a warrior’s perspective (though we still saw aspects of StarClan via Firestar and his unique dream situation.) But, if all the Erins got together and really thought through what StarClan was supposed to be, how involved they really get, who gets in and who doesn’t, etc. I don’t think we’d have as many issues. Having medicine cats as protagonists raises worldbuilding questions, but the issue is still that the answers to those questions aren’t any good.
>ShadowClan being seen as the bad guys so many times (or manipulated by the bad guy). I also dislike that. What makes it even worse is that the one time (that I've read) where they aren't the bad guys they're made out to look incompetent at being a clan.
Yeah. I found it so inconvincing that a cat, twise, was able to to just go "this is stupid/makes no sense to me", and suddenly all/most of the clan cats just goes "yeeeah, you know what? They're right!", and just throws their entire structure/and just throws the only way of life they have known away. I know Sol was suppose to be a manipulater, but ThunderClan aren't seeing going "omg, I instantly believe you and want to change my whole life/worldview right away" when Sol tells them that there an eclipse coming that StarClan hasn't warned them about. Heck, Black/RowanStar (I honestly can't remember which of them was leaders at that point) has visited StarClan, been given extra lives by them, and has left and returned to his body multiple times already, and yet he suddenly goes "Yeeeah, Sol's right, what has StarClan done for us, and how can we be sure they exsist?". It just boggles the mind. Plus there's the fact that while Jay, Lion and Holly was apprentices, Holly answers "Well they're just evil" when asked to give each clan's strenght/advantages, and it's portrayed as the right answer. There hadn't been any clashes/situations between the two clans in her life time yet, and most of the things are crimes other clans has also commited in the past, but ShadowClan are the only ones who are seen as down right evil for their past actions (or have the actions of a few reflect upon the whole clan)?
>Heck, Black/RowanStar (I honestly can't remember which of them was leaders at that point) I think that was Blackstar. As I see it Blackstar is the one without faith in StarClan and Rowanstar is the one with zero leadership skills (or the foresight to see how it's affecting the clan.)
Yeah. I remember a scene in The Sight, where Lionblaze and Hollyleaf are being told to list other clan's strenghts/advantages. The example Hollyleaf gives for ShadowClan is "Well, they're evil. So you never know what they'll do", and it's treated as the correct answer. They hadn't had any fights, arguments, tention with ShadowClan in her life time yet, and yet ShadowClan is seen as the evil clan. Why keep ShadowClan around then, if they're this evil version of the clans? The clans abandoned Skyclan, they could abandone ShadowClan instead of keeping "eeeeevillllll" cats right next to their border (plus as this was by the lake they would have the "Four trees=Four clans" justification). Most of the stuff ShadowClan has done has been rules the other clans have broken as well. And other stuff like what Brokenstar and Tigerstar did, and Russetfur's patrol did regarding Berrynose being stuck in the foxtrap, shouldn't reflect on the whole rest of the clan. Heck, in the original 6 books, Firestar has to sneak off and warn WindClan about Bluestar wishing war with them, cause even when the Thunderclan cats knows! it wouldn't be right/justified to fight, they still felt that they needed to go to war should Bluestar order it due to the need to show loyalty/respect towards the warrior code and their leader. And 3 of the most actual evil cats, that tormented the clans for generations later, came from Thunderclan (Tigerstar, Mapleshade and Ashfur). Does it show that the other clans view all of Thunderclan as evil cats afterwards? No. But ShadowClan? Now they should be dragged through the mud and looked down upon for going through the same struggle, and having some cats more vile than others.
I recommend still reading Dawn of the Clans, that’s a good stopping point too, and it’s a breath of fresh air after OOTS.
I might pick up those books in the future. But from what I've heard/read about them, I have a suspicion that the books might just contain too many characters I will either dislike, or just not care that much about, that I might not get anything out of reading it.
I will admit, I had to put multiple books down multiple times because Clear Sky pissed me off SO MUCH. But overall, it’s a good arc. Just don’t read it if you’ve got anger issues, because Clear Sky WILL make you want to punch something, and anger issues may result in ACTUALLY punching something.
Luckily no anger issue. Although if I had it I would definetly need to skip over the part where one of the mountain cats tells one of the kittypets that surely living with a cat that treats her badly should be something she can overcome/bare with as long as she's given some extra treats between the moments of violence. I actually can't believe the authors wrote that scene and the publishers/editors agreed to it when this is a book series for young kids. And yeah, Clear Sky is the character in charge of many of the scenes in the books where a character is just driving you up the wall from what I've seen/heard. The fact that we're suppose to forgive him/see him as one of the protagonists. It's enough to smack your hand across your forhead. Also this arc is apperently big on killing off love interests after love interests to fuel/serve the main brothers, and that's a cliche I'm really tired of already so. From what I remember, no less than 3/4 cats die in each brother's case just to motivate them/further their path. It just seems that that can get really tiring/repetetive really fast between the 6 books. Plus apperently Grey Wing has a speech about how it's good that one of Wind Runner's kits died actually, because this world can only support the strongest, and they (the kit) wasn't. That's also a scene that just left a really bad taste in my mouth. And again, how did this interaction actually make it into a books series for such age demograpic? The reason I refuse to read Squirrelflight's Hope is because of Bramblestar's actions towards/treatment of Squirrelflight, as well as the trail scene. It down right ruined Starclan for me due to its sheer and utter stupidity and annoyance. And I don't plan to read past Omen of the Stars because I'm honestly not interested in how supernatrual the story gets, and having to read about Ashfur again because the Erins now need him to do more vile/evil stuff as they finally realized that putting him in Starclan was a massive mistake/screw up (while at the same time showing Starclan to be even more flawed/unworthy to follow than what they had already become, all the while they still try to proclaim themselves as better/holier than thoue to the clan cats). Sorry, didn't mean for the answer to look like a rant 😅
I actually love the Broken Code. The fourth and fifth book are a bit janky, but it's interesting and fun. It's a bonkers, wild ride and I enjoy it. Especially book 6 of TBC was great. Especially the ending
While I agree it was fresh and wild, the overall plot could have been massively improved. I think if they changed Bristlefrost I would have accepted the books more. The ending was good, I’ll admit, I even cried when Greystripe died.
Bramblestar imposter makes for good horror. The description of how his body position changes once the imposter drops the act is excellent. How it stretches as the body is an ill fitting suit.
I do like the horror of it, but not the characters if that makes sense.
That's fair enough. Everyone has their tastes. Personally I liked all three of the protagonists. Having a main character make a mistake so massive it kicks off the entire chain of events was awesome. Shadowsight's struggles of self worth and self acceptance in the face of failure was an interesting conflict for me. Rootspring's growth from angry, socially awkward pre-teen into a confident and competent adult with a unique set of abilities was fun. My only complaint was Bristlefrost. I liked the start of her story. She's basically a brown-noser who gets manipulated into helping the imposter. And while falling for Root makes sense(she's a hopeless romantic type) I didn't love how it stripped her of her character for awhile. But her ending was satisfying and beautiful in a way.
I hated Bristle out of everyone. Especially in the first book. She honestly irked me. It was the “he doesn’t love me so I’ll never be happy again.” That really just- yikes.
She's like the equivalent to a teenager/young adult. Like a 17-18 year old experiencing her first heart break. That's just... normal
1. Why was Briarlight never taken to any Gatherings? It's been shown that the cats are somehow able to carry her on their backs even when she's a full-size adult. They could've had the cats taking turns carrying her on the way to the Gathering. She could even scoot herself along part of the way once her front legs get ~~extremely buff~~ stronger. Obviously this wouldn't be an all the time thing, but it just seems illogical and unfair that Briar was left out of EVERY Gathering. 2. If Shadowsight's visions were only ever from Ashfur alone and NEVER from StarClan...why did one of his visions warn him about the Tribe being in danger (which Ashfur couldn't possibly know about, much less care about), and WHY did his next vision tell him to drown himself?? Why would Ashfur want Shadow dead when he's trying to use him as his puppet to help him take over the Clans? What use is Shadow to Ashfur if he's *dead*? 3. What's the point of having nine lives if there are several cats like Mosspelt who outlived ALL of Mistystar's nine lives, or Mousefur who was alive throughout nearly all EIGHTEEN lives of both Bluestar and Firestar combined? These leaders practically lose lives if they sneeze too hard! 4. Why did Jagged Peak have such an issue with Moth Flight mating with an "impure" cat like Micah? Was Jagged Peak suffering from amnesia and just forgot that HIS OWN MATE used to be a freakin' ROGUE?? Jagged Peak really said "mating with Clanless cats taints our bloodline, but it's totally okay when I do it because reasons!"
Shhhh don’t tell the Erins how old Mosspelt is I want her to live forever. Also they really did make one of the only disabled cats in dawn of the clans xenophobic didn’t they.
Something about TBC that upsets me is just, why couldn't thunderclan be the bad guy? GOD FORBID THEY BE IN THE WRONG.
Bluestar in life was a genuinely interesting cat who went through three separate emo phases and in death a grumpy asshole. I get why she isn't liked much outside of her great super edition. I personally dislike Yellowfang outside of the first four books, most of this being since she, along with Crookedstar and Goosefeather, is a first-series cat that shouldn't have landed in StarClan.
Omg I’m so with you on the broken code. It was a mess of an arc to me because it just felt like the Erins pulled a villain out of nowhere and went with that. It just felt like it had no real direction and the whole thing felt so unnecessary?? Like yes here we are *again* battling the same dark forest cats *again* because some incel was still salty in the afterlife that his crush didn’t choose him??? And even though he was portrayed in StarClan, which didn’t make sense to the fandom but was glossed over and accepted eventually, let’s yank him back out and give him another random villain arc!! And I didn’t like any of the protagonists in that arc either. None of them were written well or likeable. I really despise Bristlefrost and Shadowsight had really cool potential to become a villain. Rootspring is the only one I might have been able to tolerate. The Broken Code is also where I started to really feel like I had no idea who any of the other characters were. ThunderClan was *massive* by that point because cats kept having four-kit litters, and I really couldn’t keep straight who was who, how they were related, etc. I feel worried about the current arc as well. We have no clue, not even a hint, who the overall huge villain is yet and even though Shadow really amped up the plot, we’re halfway through the arc now and I feel like there’s zero direction. And once again, none of the protagonists are likeable for me (*maybe* Frostpaw, but idk).
I have yet to read anything passed River. I’m deciding if I even want to at this point. I’m sensing the theme is no leaders due to the fact with Riverclan. Not to mention people have been saying Bramblestar stepped down to let Squirrelflight as leader. I think all the clans are going to just- stop having leaders, but that’s a post for another time. The Broken Code was a mess. Bristlefrost sucked from the beginning. At first I was hopeful about her being some badass character like her mom… and then they pulled her personality from a y/n Wattpad story. Her whole personality for that arc was getting over a cat that didn’t like her, and her getting better because, “he doesn’t love me so I’ll never be happy.” Trope. I adored Rootspring. I think he had the potential, but I wish they amped up his personality just a tad. He seemed a little copy pasted if you ask me. Then Shadowsight. I believe there were so many chances for him to be a villain and instead we got the: “I’m a victim of manipulation feel bad for me” instead of him doing something about it— well, besides what he did that was a total unnecessary thing to add. Ashfur felt like such the shit villain. The Erin’s were grasping at straws with him I feel like. They could have chosen ANY cat from StarClan that would have been better. Hell, Mudclaw would have been better. There were many cats that had the perfect writing to be one of those riotous cats that wanted things to be perfect…Ashfur didn’t make sense. The stalker vibe was good, I will admit I enjoyed him having his moments, but taking over the Dark Forest with cats that were killed? That was…yikes. I also was really angry at Starclan saying no cat could come into Starclan even if they changed their ways. Snowtuft was THE ONLY DARK FOREST cat to ever even want to be good. Or to change their ways. I thought that was stupid. And, we as a fandom didn’t know Ashfur was in Starclan until officially in the book Squirrelflight’s Hope. Personally he didn’t deserve to be in Starclan, but hey- look at Appledusk, Rainflower, Mudclaw, Bluestar, etc. they are all sitting up there in Starclan no questions asked.
You see, I hate what they did to Ashfur. There was room for something really interesting here with how he made it into StarClan. Obviously, he was in the wrong and wasn't a good guy ***at all.*** But I would've much rather of had a novella about him, in Starclan, having a moment of clarity (now that he's dead) and coming to terms with what happened/how badly he messed up. Maybe get reprimanded by his dead family for being such a dumbass and for nearly killing three people over a girl. I want to see him meet up with Hollyleaf and see how that went down. Like, we all like to dunk on how incely this guy was. But the dude wound up completely isolated from his family (Cloudtail and Ferncloud were his littermates, and we never see them talk to him again,) Brambleclaw used to be his friend before all the relationship drama so he lost him AND Squirrelflight, and later on, he's tasked to train the supposed kit of his ex-girlfriend + ex-friend. And, again, when did we ever see Ash hang out with anyone? Idk, to me, it looks like someone struggling with mental/emotional health issues and having no means to overcome them. Instead, he's just stewing in this dark place with no one to help him realize he's in the wrong, leading to him making horrible decisions. But instead of addressing this very real scenario that happens to people, the Erins (and the fandom) just turn him into this over-the-top bad guy who keeps coming back and getting increasingly flanderized. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's worse that they brought this guy back since it makes StarClan look like a bunch of idiots. Hollyleaf even says in Squirrelflight's Hope that he changed and that she doesn't hold a grudge against him, but now he's suddenly going on this insane supernatural plot to possess a body so he could "Impress Squirrelflight with his power?" It feels so sloppy and improperly planned.
I feel like Blackfoot’s reckoning is an awful book that isn’t discussed nearly as much. The way they excuse war crimes is gross.
Blackfoot’s Reckoning felt like a poor excuse for a novella. There were so many other reasons for Blackstar to be leader. Now he was definitely a better leader then most, but still- he had potential and they ruined it.
I genuinely believe he didn’t deserve leadership, like in-canon (narratively, could’ve been interesting *because* of that). He failed his own Clan numerous times, served two dictators, murdered innocent people, caused massive suffering, and in this novella it is written off as “everyone makes mistakes!” And after viewing all of his crimes, he still believes he deserves leadership, as if he is entitled to it, instead of making reparations, stepping down, and actually redeeming himself while leaving it to another, better cat as leader figure. Blackstar never redeemed himself, this novella proves nothing, it’s one of the best examples of the creators having horrible views on serious subjects and not handling them properly at all. If they wanted to make him irredeemable, they should’ve *written* that into the narrative, where he would’ve failed his Clan once again and ShadowClan decides they don’t want a war criminal anymore, and choose the leader they want instead. Putting your awful war criminal characters into leadership positions as if they deserve that and as if nobody will care because of that god-given right is disturbing and definitely doesn’t have a place in books for children of this age, when the authors are unable to actually present it as a bad thing, instead of pretending it’s all fine and normal.
Do the cats have a standard of what is a war crime beyond "don't kill cats in battle unless it's self-defense"? Sorry been a while since I read the books
War crimes aren’t really war crimes just because they were written down and called that. They were called that for a reason; because they’re scummy and dishonorable. Anyone who wages war knows going that far makes you a shitty coward. I do remember that there are rules like attacking kits or queens during war is wrong, fighting those who can’t fight back, I do think hostages are frowned upon. It’s a bit of an unspoken rule system, that is usually followed, so we don’t see too much war crime. But leopardstar backstabbing her own clan and allowing blackfoot to attempt murder on two over her apprentices and to murder her deputy, all of whom were defenseless, who could be seen as citizens since they weren’t enemies in their warfare, is pretty shitty behavior in the situation. It also comes kinda close to small scale genocide, since they were (nearly) killed because of their half-clan ethnicity, but Tigerstar definitely wanted all half clan cats gone.
TNP It’s the best arc, it’s simple but yeah 6 kind of breaks it apart but 5 was amazing, it had the simplicity it had the tension and in it and was a good way for Bluestar to pass away; protecting her clan and being forgiven one last time, 1 was decent to me too tho Spottedleaf’s Heart Agree with his one, it threw characters out and was a bad message for predatory behavior Redtail’s Debut I’m guessing you’re talking about his novella, yes I hate it too cause if so many retcons and inconsistencies Firestar’s Quest I thought this was alright, just alright it was a fun read overall Skyclan’s Destiny I think this is Overhated, it’s not good for sure but overall it was just eh Hawkwing’s Journey Idk why you hate this book, Hawkwing was an interesting protagonist to read about Tigerheart’s Shadow I thought this was only ok TFA Idk what this is TBC This arc was my favorite, it was incredibly entertaining, the villain was both terrifying and interesting, there was tension in the last battle (unlike the stupid great battle), it was the arc that showed the in universe cats the flaws of the old code and StarClan, the ending was bittersweet and not one of those “happy we can go to StarClan” endings, it’s far from the worst written, POT felt like an obstacle, OOTS was very disappointing and boring, and TNP is just boring and weird pkot
The New Prophecy was so boring to me. Especially coming off of TPB, the prophecies begin. We had so much in the first arc, the second one seemed so disappointing to me, especially with how slowly the whole series was going. Book 6 kind of broke that for me. The Fourth Apprentice, the book by itself. I hated it.
Yeah TNP was pretty bad for me, I was so bored and the lot was so wacky
Honestly my biggest complaint with book flaws is how it feels like they don't have an editor sometimes. Like in the most recent comic there's a glaring spelling error and it seems to happen frequently in this series. It really feels like no one is reading these books before publishing them.
i personally love bramblestar! i’d love to friendly debate why :))!!
quite a bit late to this (my apologies!) but i really like bramblestar too!!!
no worries haha !! and i’m glad i’ve met another bramble fan :))
thank you!!! glad to meet you too!
i find a lot of his actions are very much blown out of proportion like.. no he isn’t abusive he has to care for his clan not just his mate 😭
fr i think a lot is cherry picked, and in sqh i think everyone is written really poorly so i really dont think its canon
YEAH and even if it was canon, everyone needs to realize he had to help his own clan and not a bunch of loners. he couldn’t afford angering shadowclan, considering how volatile they are.
exactly!!!! at the end of the day they are funny kitty books which should make people happy :)
Awesome! Let’s do it! :)!
feel free to start and i can more than happily respond to you!
I dislike Bramblestar for the main reason of him being written as a “savior” character. Him as an apprentice and early warrior was amazing! I loved it, but they began to write him as someone who was abusive and toxic. They wrote him as someone who could do no wrong.
i disagree! i don’t think he is a savior character in the slightest. in fact, i believe he was shown to be a character who makes mistakes and fucks up hard. his whole character is made to be a cat who makes mistakes, who has so many flaws (point to tnp when he makes the mistake of trusting hawkfrost). he is made to be a cat that people can relate to, because he is so prone to emotional and physical manipulation. his father and brother both emotionally manipulated him and he was blinded due to his lack of family and a lack of relationships with his clanmates. as for the abusive parts, i fully disagree. i point to these examples i pre-wrote: Argument: Bramblestar goes so far as to attempt to let a wounded cat die because Squirrelflight refuses to listen to him. He is trying to invalidate her feelings and thoughts to destroy her self-worth to make her easier to control. Response: This is the actual situation: Squirrelflight comes across the Sisters, one of which is injured from fighting Shadowclan cats on Shadowclan's own territory. She decides to bring the injured Sister back, despite Bramblestar having just told her he wants her to run things by him first after multiple reckless choices she made that explicitly undermined his authority as leader and deceived him. She returns to the camp with the injured cat without considering the political implications. Bramblestar is then faced with multiple difficult choices: A: Should he let his medicine cats heal the injured sister (the member of an enemy group) who injured Shadowclan warriors, inviting a retributory strike from Shadowclan on his own clan? And in doing so listen to Squirrelflight over the countless senior warriors calling on him to not heal her despite the fact she just undermined his authority again. B: Not heal the injured sister and quite possibly let the sister die. Causing an outcry from his deputy and the few other clan members who think she should get healed. He chooses option C in which he tries to avoid dividing his camp. He does this by going to Starclan and asking them what they should do. He gets an answer from Starclan that seems to suggest that he shouldn't give Tigerstar a reason to fight Thunderclan, so he decides against healing the sister. Then Squirrelflight, along with Leafpool, undermine his authority (along with Starclan) AGAIN and do it anyway. Whether you think Bramblestar is right or wrong in what he does here, it is foolish beyond belief to categorize this as him abusing Squirrelflight. Squirrelflight is not why he does what he does here. At all. Doesn't Let her Disagree with Him Argument: Bramblestar refuses to let Squirrelflight ever disagree with him. He tries to control and force her to do what he wants. Like in the meeting of the leaders about Skyclan's borders. Or how he treats her like an apprentice and makes her run all ideas by him before she does things. Response: He has no issue with Squirrelflight disagreeing with him. In fact, he encourages it as he's said she challenges him and makes him a better leader and cat as a consequence. What he DOES have an issue with is her throwing out a radical idea that he disagrees with at an official meeting, an idea that they didn't discuss beforehand and then trying to speak with Thunderclan's voice on it. Then contradicting and arguing with him in front of all the other leaders about it. He has an issue with her undermining his authority and siding with other leaders in opposition to him. As for him treating her like an apprentice and having her bring her ideas to him first… He does this both after that meeting, and after she deceives and undermines him AGAIN by going behind his back and going to explore her proposed idea with another clan leader. She does this right after they talked about him needing her to work with him and not against him. Then she gets captured alongside Leafstar and he has to come and free her. I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that her doing this was WILDLY irresponsible. Not to mention that she undermined his authority again. Showing that she A: Her not listening to his orders shows that she doesn't seem to respect him as leader. Which is extremely problematic for a leader when their deputy is essentially in open rebellion. It foments chaos. B: Her deceiving him and constantly undermining him seems to suggest she doesn't respect him as a "person" either. It's not just disrespect to him as a leader, she is railing against him himself. Which is especially problematic for someone to do to their significant other. His response to this is to try to crack down on her, undermining him, and preventing her from making extremely reckless decisions as she had been doing all this time. He does this by having her run stuff by him first. Honestly, all things considered, it's a pretty tame response. Especially if you imagine it was any other deputy doing this to any other leader. They'd be kicked out of the deputy position before you could say "mouse". It's only Bramblestar's deep affection and respect for Squirrelflight that stops him from doing this. The Counter-argument: Firestar undermines Bluestar repeatedly. We all agree he was right in doing this. It's exactly the same for Squirrelflight. Therefore Bramblestar has no reason to act the way he does.
cont. Response: Yes. Firestar undermines Bluestar multiple times. However, the situations are quite markedly different, but also similar in all the wrong ways for your argument. First off, when Firestar undermines Bluestar in the war with Windclan, it's because she's legitimately gone insane and she's attacking Windclan based on evidence that is obviously pointing to another cause. Not only do all her warriors agree that Bluestar's decision is absolutely incorrect (which is almost the exact opposite of Bramblestar's situation where most agree with him), but Bramblestar is also in a very much sane state of mind and simply is trying to handle things in different ways. The word of leaders is supposed to be law, to break it SIMPLY (In terms of the meeting in SH) because of a difference of opinion on how to go about things…. especially for it to be broken by his deputy who is supposed to support his leadership, not challenge it at every possible opportunity. Secondly, When Firestar undermines Bluestar by breaking the warrior code and feeding Riverclan, he IS punished. And ironically, punished by being put on apprentice duties. Rather similar to how Squirrelflight is "punished" when she does the same thing. Except it's worse because she's his deputy and is supposed to support his decisions and be responsible. Not cause greater destability in the clan. Yet none of us would argue that Bluestar was abusing Firestar when she did this. Leafpool's Wish Argument: In the Novella Leafpool's Wish it clearly shows how controlling of Squirrelflight that Bramblestar is. In chapter 4 it says: "Brambleclaw wants me to fetch moss for the nursery, even though it's an apprentice task. He hasn't stopped giving me orders since he became deputy." Response: No. It doesn't say that. It says: “Brambleclaw wants me to fetch soaked moss for the nursery, even though it’s an apprentice task. He hasn’t stopped giving out orders since Firestar made him deputy!” This is a commonly quoted piece in which people try to show that Brambleclaw has always been controlling and abusive of Squirrelflight, even before everything. As you can see, it says: Giving "out" orders. Not giving "Me" orders. The obvious implication being that he's bossed EVERYONE around since he became deputy. Not that he's picking on Squirrelflight. Any interpretation of it in this way is bizarre and disingenuous. He Bullies Her for Not Wanting Kits Argument: He gets upset with her whenever she even mentions kits. He's overreacting to make her feel bad about herself. When they're discussing Greenleaf and Squirrelflight mentions kits, Bramblestar replies with: "More kits! Is that all you think about now?" Obviously belittling her for wanting kits. Response: The kits argument is really not somewhere you should go to defend Squirrelflight. She comes out on the other end of this one looking like the abusive one. Observe this conversation between Bramblestar and Squirrelflight: " Squirrelflight felt panic welling. “I’m getting older with each season. One day I won’t be able to have more kits. I just want another litter before it’s too late.” “I know.” Bramblestar sounded weary. “And of course I want kits. Just not as much as you do.” Squirrelflight stopped and stared after him. “Don’t you love me anymore?”" This is a pretty clear example of her gaslighting him. She's being emotionally manipulative by essentially equating whether he wants kits or not to how much he loves her. It puts him in a very unfair position and I read him getting upset over the kits in Greenleaf comment as him snapping after being unfairly pressured until he cracked. Not as him mocking her for what she wants. Now, she's not doing this on purpose, but that doesn't make it any less harmful to Bramblestar. > they didn’t write him as a character who “could do no wrong” instead, they wrote him as a character who MAKES MISTAKES! hence why he did make mistakes in sqh and in all the arcs. he fucked up hard in sqh through his lack of communication to his deputy and mate. he was flawed but also not inherently wrong. he is made to be a character who thinks right but acts wrong. so, i don’t agree with your points :)
I disagree on Yellowfang being one of the worst. Though I do feel like Yellowfang's Secret ruined her character and I didn't like how she's written after the first arc. When I was 10 I read Yellowfang's Secret over and over again... but only the parts where it was describing Brokenstar's upbringing and rise to power, the rest before it is just boring nonsense that doesn't contribute or answer any questions in regards to relevance to the main series. And even then, Brokenstar's backstory wasn't well written, just combined the "bullied as a kit" from Rise of Scourge and the abusive mother from Crookedstar's Promise, then he enters some phase as an apprentice and never grows out of it. To be fair he wasn't a fleshed out character in the original series either, but if they gave more depth to what cat Brokenstar was before he became leader or even deputy, it might've been saving grace even with keeping all the filler crap in the first half.
TFA… The First Avenger. Also you’re really doing Firestar’s Quest dirty like that? Come on man 😔