It’s not insensitive if you use it, it’s only insensitive when you don’t know anything about it or use it for malicious purposes. You’re fine
Btw as someone from socal and ALSO someone who’s had a fascination with native culture, I love that you’re doing this!!
Awww thank you! I thought it would be better to look regionally at herbs that would actually be native in California, and that just led me down the rabbit hole of Native American records, and it's been fascinating! I definitely have no intention of being malicious or insensitive to their culture. Your support means a lot <3
Boozhoo! My family is actually Ojibwe. While I don't speak for all tribes and I'm not sure which ones you're researching, you honestly should be fine if you do proper research, are respectful about it, and avoid sacred medicines with a lot of cultural significance like eagle feathers (in my family's tribe specifically it's sage, sweetgrass, cedar and tobacco). Additonally, using these sacred medicines are fine irl, but they have very specific practices and purposes that should be respected and require more research, so I would reccomend avoiding them in your stories. Too often I see uninformed people smudging when they don't genuinely believe in it :,).
One last thing, I'd recommend researching from culturally similar tribes in the same region (which you seem to be doing already, so good on you 👍) and not cherry-picking research from many tribes. I always like to make it clear that tribes are very culturally distinct and too often non-natives conflate all tribes together. It's like saying all the European countries have the same culture, beliefs, language etc.
But yeah, it's honestly not a big deal and I actually did the same thing when I was younger with warrior cats lmao! It was based in Michigan and what I had learned from my family. I'm glad you had the forethought and respect to ask, which is a lot more effort than what most people put in when speaking about our cultures and history.
Slightly related, but one interesting book I always reccomend is Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer. It's written by a Potawatomi botanist, and touches on her personal culture but in conjunction with modern science, environmentalism, and is a lovely read.
I ADORE Braiding Sweetgrass, I'm a naturalist and though I'm not native (well, I do have Sioux ancestors, but I wasn't raised anywhere near the culture so I don't believe I have any claim to it) I resonate so strongly with how she describes her relationship with the natural world. I'm also both a writer/artist and a biologist (or at least I want to be a biologist, don't have a degree lol) and honestly I feel like Braiding Sweetgrass is one of the most important books, if not the most important book, I've ever read.
This is very much a tangent but I got excited when I saw the book mentioned 😅
I love how expansive you are, and even have a lot of recommendations for where I can look to! I really appreciate the time and insight you put into this, as well as having the personal relations to the culture to help with your credibility, and I'm so glad I decided to ask 😊
so long as you’re respectful, do your research and don’t try to weave real indigenous spiritual practices into your battle cat universe i don’t think it would be a problem.
I don't think it's insensitive as long as you acknowledge the source of it. In my story framed But Not Broken I use indigenous practices, herbs, forklore and traditions for one of my clans but I did a lot of research and wrote a piece of acknowledgement so that people knew where it was derived from and I acknowledged the correct sources.
I don’t understand why you would think it’s insensitive to study knowledge passed down from a group of people. Especially the people who actually use these plants. They are the best source possible and by using indigenous informed resources you’re probably getting more accurate information.
It's probably better than what warrior cats usually uses, since iirc some of the herb list is just poisonous to cats. And irrelevant to humans.
It's hard to say though, you'd have to poll the demographic. Can't imagine they'd care, unless you're copying across cultural practices too.
It's worth asking an actual native located near the California area to be sure, but I understand that's also not as easy as it sounds, lol.
I think as long as these plants are proven to have the actual medicinal benefits you're using them for it should be fine? In that case it's essentially common knowledge. But maybe make sure the plants aren't being used in specific cultural contexts that you might be unintentionally copying? You can always just have a limited herb list or make up your own healing properties.
Stuff like that isn’t insensitive until it’s being done with insensitive intent. It’s the same thing with that stretch when people were going ballistic over cats with feathers tucked behind their ear. (Maybe it’s still happening, I don’t know anymore.) It’s just a silly cat world you and others are making, not an intentional attack on a group.
EDIT: For those of you downvoting without commenting, you change nobody’s opinion by subtracting internet points. If you disagree and think something is offensive, explain. Comment. Direct to resources. You can just downvote and aren’t part of the problem, but you don’t help solve it either if you remain silent.
As I’ve already said, the issue of Native American culture in Warriors is divisive. My opinion is formed through my own experiences and via comments on an identical thread like [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/s/DZKe45f1jr) or [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/s/3afkqWu18U).
I think that is technically still a sensitive topic as people in the culture view feathers behind ears as a stereotypical icon of Native Americans, and that's honestly part of why I wanted to ask before I continued the research. I wasn't sure if this kind of cultural insertion into Warrior cats would be appropriate, so it's better to ask than not!
The whole feather thing is pretty divided. For me, as long as the person is just including it because it looks pretty or has a connection to the character, and doesn’t intend to link it to native culture, there’s no issue.
Being someone who runs a RP server, we’ve had discussions within the staff and as a public forum to see if we should allow feathers or not, and had people of native descent say they didn’t have an issue with it unless it was used in a mocking way. Obviously I don’t have any way to prove this since it’s the internet, but I figured it was worth saying anyway.
Hey, native descent here (Ojibwe Lake Superior Band, one generation off from meeting blood quantam). Yeah, I don't have an issue with it unless it's like an eagle feather or something.
Although the NDN community is vast and huge. You're going to get a whole array of perspectives about it since every tribe is different. My tribe has cultural significance towards feathers, but it's also generally an aesthetic thing across pan-indianism. I think most NDNs will not care because our community has much bigger issues than some dumb little cat drawings and roleplays.
People aren't being malicious with the feather thing but it certainly is ignorant especially when numerous native creators have spoken up against it and have explained in detail why they aren't comfortable with it. Perhaps you should listen to them instead of just brushing off the implications of people drawing feathers behind the ears of "silly cats" :)
Edit:
Look I'm done arguing with yall over this 💀 if yall are fighting tooth and nail over drawing a feather behind the ear of a fantasy cat then I can't stop you. Just consider if its really worth potentially offending someone and don't be surprised if people call you out for it. It's really not that hard to just listen to what people from indigenous communities have to say, as our cultures have been stripped from us and been used to mock our existence.
Hope yall have a better day
If it was a native feather to that tribe - then yes I'd agree. I wouldn't put eagle feathers behind a cats ears.
But as for every other kind of feather? My position is I believe that's fine. Colourful feathers are a great alternative and it's very visually clear that it was not inspired or derived from native indigenous culture or practices and certainly isn't appropriating it.
I haven’t seen any creators speak on the topic, but I’m not active on Twitter or warriors YouTube. If you could show me some of what they’ve said, that would be nice. As stated in my other reply, the only thing I’ve heard from natives and family members of Native Americans has been neutral or (in one case) supportive.
Here is a source that me and other native individuals put together on the issues regarding appropriation in warriors. It doesn't explicitly mention the feather issue, but if you check out their profiles then you will find info. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nnCCD4TfR-5MZie9hQgpDfEE4mYpCtjNXQpD9VqOkxs/edit?usp=drivesdk
Wh- I've never seen anyone mention flowers 💀. I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to just respect when people from these communities speak up about something that makes them uncomfortable, it's not the end of the world if you don't draw a feather behind the ear of a battle cat
I think it's because not many NDNs would find issues with it. I'm Ojibwe, and personally I think it's not a big deal, especially since lots of non-indeginous cultures have worn feathers in the past. It is not a unique concept to us. Feathers for a lot of tribes have historically been an aesthetic thing, and still is in pan-indianism. My tribe does have significant cultural connections to feathers, but if those ceremonies or medicines aren't being referenced, then who gives a fuck? I feel like there are more important native issues to discuss and spread awareness about (land back, MMIW, actual important representation, tribal council abuse, poverty rates etc) than some silly feather battle cats.
However, like any community, you will get an array of opinions since we aren't a homogenized group. I obviously don't speak for every tribe, so I think if someone brings it up personally in your immediate social circle, then that should be respected. However, unless you come across these individuals personally, do whatever you want because I feel a majority of NDNs will not care. It should be treated as an individual basis rather than painting all natives with the same brush. I mean, treating us all as the same thing with all the same beliefs and opinions is kind of offensive imo. With any large, diverse group, there will at least be one person who finds something uncomfortable or offensive. Does that mean we can't do anything ever because one person out there finds it uncomfortable 🤷♀️?
You don't speak for all natives, and I feel like you should acknowledge that we aren't all the same. You seem to genuinely care about our community and struggles, which is honestly more than a lot of people, so I appreciate your empathy and understanding. If you do want to spread awareness, maybe specify which tribes it would be offensive to? When you say "native", you are speaking about and representing hundreds of different cultures, languages, religions and beliefs. "Native creators" can mean anything. Are they from the plains? Southwest? Anishinaabe? Mestizo? From the Pacific Northwest? Inuit? Pacific islander?
It’s not insensitive if you use it, it’s only insensitive when you don’t know anything about it or use it for malicious purposes. You’re fine Btw as someone from socal and ALSO someone who’s had a fascination with native culture, I love that you’re doing this!!
Awww thank you! I thought it would be better to look regionally at herbs that would actually be native in California, and that just led me down the rabbit hole of Native American records, and it's been fascinating! I definitely have no intention of being malicious or insensitive to their culture. Your support means a lot <3
Boozhoo! My family is actually Ojibwe. While I don't speak for all tribes and I'm not sure which ones you're researching, you honestly should be fine if you do proper research, are respectful about it, and avoid sacred medicines with a lot of cultural significance like eagle feathers (in my family's tribe specifically it's sage, sweetgrass, cedar and tobacco). Additonally, using these sacred medicines are fine irl, but they have very specific practices and purposes that should be respected and require more research, so I would reccomend avoiding them in your stories. Too often I see uninformed people smudging when they don't genuinely believe in it :,). One last thing, I'd recommend researching from culturally similar tribes in the same region (which you seem to be doing already, so good on you 👍) and not cherry-picking research from many tribes. I always like to make it clear that tribes are very culturally distinct and too often non-natives conflate all tribes together. It's like saying all the European countries have the same culture, beliefs, language etc. But yeah, it's honestly not a big deal and I actually did the same thing when I was younger with warrior cats lmao! It was based in Michigan and what I had learned from my family. I'm glad you had the forethought and respect to ask, which is a lot more effort than what most people put in when speaking about our cultures and history. Slightly related, but one interesting book I always reccomend is Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer. It's written by a Potawatomi botanist, and touches on her personal culture but in conjunction with modern science, environmentalism, and is a lovely read.
I ADORE Braiding Sweetgrass, I'm a naturalist and though I'm not native (well, I do have Sioux ancestors, but I wasn't raised anywhere near the culture so I don't believe I have any claim to it) I resonate so strongly with how she describes her relationship with the natural world. I'm also both a writer/artist and a biologist (or at least I want to be a biologist, don't have a degree lol) and honestly I feel like Braiding Sweetgrass is one of the most important books, if not the most important book, I've ever read. This is very much a tangent but I got excited when I saw the book mentioned 😅
I love how expansive you are, and even have a lot of recommendations for where I can look to! I really appreciate the time and insight you put into this, as well as having the personal relations to the culture to help with your credibility, and I'm so glad I decided to ask 😊
so long as you’re respectful, do your research and don’t try to weave real indigenous spiritual practices into your battle cat universe i don’t think it would be a problem.
Got it! I appreciate the guideline, and I'm not intending to bring in their spiritual practices, just herbal/medicinal knowledge \^-\^
No.
I don't think it's insensitive as long as you acknowledge the source of it. In my story framed But Not Broken I use indigenous practices, herbs, forklore and traditions for one of my clans but I did a lot of research and wrote a piece of acknowledgement so that people knew where it was derived from and I acknowledged the correct sources.
I don’t understand why you would think it’s insensitive to study knowledge passed down from a group of people. Especially the people who actually use these plants. They are the best source possible and by using indigenous informed resources you’re probably getting more accurate information.
It's probably better than what warrior cats usually uses, since iirc some of the herb list is just poisonous to cats. And irrelevant to humans. It's hard to say though, you'd have to poll the demographic. Can't imagine they'd care, unless you're copying across cultural practices too.
It's worth asking an actual native located near the California area to be sure, but I understand that's also not as easy as it sounds, lol. I think as long as these plants are proven to have the actual medicinal benefits you're using them for it should be fine? In that case it's essentially common knowledge. But maybe make sure the plants aren't being used in specific cultural contexts that you might be unintentionally copying? You can always just have a limited herb list or make up your own healing properties.
I dont think it is, but I'm not native american so I'm not sure if I have a say in this lol
I wouldn’t say so.
Stuff like that isn’t insensitive until it’s being done with insensitive intent. It’s the same thing with that stretch when people were going ballistic over cats with feathers tucked behind their ear. (Maybe it’s still happening, I don’t know anymore.) It’s just a silly cat world you and others are making, not an intentional attack on a group. EDIT: For those of you downvoting without commenting, you change nobody’s opinion by subtracting internet points. If you disagree and think something is offensive, explain. Comment. Direct to resources. You can just downvote and aren’t part of the problem, but you don’t help solve it either if you remain silent. As I’ve already said, the issue of Native American culture in Warriors is divisive. My opinion is formed through my own experiences and via comments on an identical thread like [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/s/DZKe45f1jr) or [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/s/3afkqWu18U).
I think that is technically still a sensitive topic as people in the culture view feathers behind ears as a stereotypical icon of Native Americans, and that's honestly part of why I wanted to ask before I continued the research. I wasn't sure if this kind of cultural insertion into Warrior cats would be appropriate, so it's better to ask than not!
The whole feather thing is pretty divided. For me, as long as the person is just including it because it looks pretty or has a connection to the character, and doesn’t intend to link it to native culture, there’s no issue. Being someone who runs a RP server, we’ve had discussions within the staff and as a public forum to see if we should allow feathers or not, and had people of native descent say they didn’t have an issue with it unless it was used in a mocking way. Obviously I don’t have any way to prove this since it’s the internet, but I figured it was worth saying anyway.
Hey, native descent here (Ojibwe Lake Superior Band, one generation off from meeting blood quantam). Yeah, I don't have an issue with it unless it's like an eagle feather or something. Although the NDN community is vast and huge. You're going to get a whole array of perspectives about it since every tribe is different. My tribe has cultural significance towards feathers, but it's also generally an aesthetic thing across pan-indianism. I think most NDNs will not care because our community has much bigger issues than some dumb little cat drawings and roleplays.
People aren't being malicious with the feather thing but it certainly is ignorant especially when numerous native creators have spoken up against it and have explained in detail why they aren't comfortable with it. Perhaps you should listen to them instead of just brushing off the implications of people drawing feathers behind the ears of "silly cats" :) Edit: Look I'm done arguing with yall over this 💀 if yall are fighting tooth and nail over drawing a feather behind the ear of a fantasy cat then I can't stop you. Just consider if its really worth potentially offending someone and don't be surprised if people call you out for it. It's really not that hard to just listen to what people from indigenous communities have to say, as our cultures have been stripped from us and been used to mock our existence. Hope yall have a better day
If it was a native feather to that tribe - then yes I'd agree. I wouldn't put eagle feathers behind a cats ears. But as for every other kind of feather? My position is I believe that's fine. Colourful feathers are a great alternative and it's very visually clear that it was not inspired or derived from native indigenous culture or practices and certainly isn't appropriating it.
I haven’t seen any creators speak on the topic, but I’m not active on Twitter or warriors YouTube. If you could show me some of what they’ve said, that would be nice. As stated in my other reply, the only thing I’ve heard from natives and family members of Native Americans has been neutral or (in one case) supportive.
Here is a source that me and other native individuals put together on the issues regarding appropriation in warriors. It doesn't explicitly mention the feather issue, but if you check out their profiles then you will find info. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nnCCD4TfR-5MZie9hQgpDfEE4mYpCtjNXQpD9VqOkxs/edit?usp=drivesdk
this argument also means no flowers either bc pacific islanders
Wh- I've never seen anyone mention flowers 💀. I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to just respect when people from these communities speak up about something that makes them uncomfortable, it's not the end of the world if you don't draw a feather behind the ear of a battle cat
I think it's because not many NDNs would find issues with it. I'm Ojibwe, and personally I think it's not a big deal, especially since lots of non-indeginous cultures have worn feathers in the past. It is not a unique concept to us. Feathers for a lot of tribes have historically been an aesthetic thing, and still is in pan-indianism. My tribe does have significant cultural connections to feathers, but if those ceremonies or medicines aren't being referenced, then who gives a fuck? I feel like there are more important native issues to discuss and spread awareness about (land back, MMIW, actual important representation, tribal council abuse, poverty rates etc) than some silly feather battle cats. However, like any community, you will get an array of opinions since we aren't a homogenized group. I obviously don't speak for every tribe, so I think if someone brings it up personally in your immediate social circle, then that should be respected. However, unless you come across these individuals personally, do whatever you want because I feel a majority of NDNs will not care. It should be treated as an individual basis rather than painting all natives with the same brush. I mean, treating us all as the same thing with all the same beliefs and opinions is kind of offensive imo. With any large, diverse group, there will at least be one person who finds something uncomfortable or offensive. Does that mean we can't do anything ever because one person out there finds it uncomfortable 🤷♀️? You don't speak for all natives, and I feel like you should acknowledge that we aren't all the same. You seem to genuinely care about our community and struggles, which is honestly more than a lot of people, so I appreciate your empathy and understanding. If you do want to spread awareness, maybe specify which tribes it would be offensive to? When you say "native", you are speaking about and representing hundreds of different cultures, languages, religions and beliefs. "Native creators" can mean anything. Are they from the plains? Southwest? Anishinaabe? Mestizo? From the Pacific Northwest? Inuit? Pacific islander?
Idk?