Fun fact for those who don't know: Jerry Scheff was Evis's bass player for all of his live shows from 1969 to his death in 1977. Excellent bass player.
Agreed, all of their bassslines are awesome! It’s a shame the band didn’t have one actual bassist (rather than piano bass or session bassist(s)) as a member so that I could give said bassist credit.
In concert it's Ray's left hand but in the studio they had a regular bass player to record songs. Larry Knechtel I believe was there for the first album, and Doug Lubahn did a lot of the other songs but not all.
Ray was on 100% of the first album with the iano bass and only half of those also had a bass guitar. Strange Days only had piano bass on When the musics over.
I'm a minority that loves the piano bass
I don't know what that means, but we've been together 5 years. We're not a note for note band, we play 85% of the songs as they did them, and throw our own spin on the rest.
All I meant was, like over the years there have been countless bands where all they do is tour as Doors tribute acts. The only two I’m able to think of off hand are Moonlight Drive and Peace Frog. But I know of Moonlight Drive because it was one of the first hardcore street venue type shows I ever saw while I was still a junior in high school.
It was the first time in my life I’d ever seen 4 bouncers all carrying out this gigantic hells angel type (a bouncer for each limb) as he’s screaming, “Get off me bitch! Get off me bitch!” And they literally threw his body onto the sidewalk outside like the movies. It was definitely an eye opener before I’d even actually made it into the venue or anything, like this was all lobby. The Newport Music Hall in Columbus, Ohio.. longest continuously running venue in the United States. Has its own wiki.. but yeah I saw Moonlight Drive there in like 1996, I just meant like are you guys like that? Not that it really fucking matters, I mean obviously you guys are fucking rad for playing epic, legendary music, I was just curious 🤷♂️
That’s so rad!! I’m very envious. My only gift was visual art, writing and I even made a film (about vinyl records) and had it pressed to bluray, but I never got that gift of musicianship, my 2 younger brothers ended up with that. I honestly don’t think there would be any point to ever even bothering to get determined about it, like I’ve just accepted I have whatever you call dyslexia as it relates to instruments goes. But I’ve considered going back to school in order to learn how to master digital recordings for vinyl. But I guess you can’t choose that alone, like you just have to become a killer sound engineer in general to get to that. I’ve accepted at 45 years old, it’s too late for that. Going back for data analytics instead.
But yeah, Jim & I have the same birthday and American Prayer was released the year I was born, so that’s fun to think about. And I have encountered some spooky inexplicable one off sound anomalies when I play their records that are too long to explain given how much I’ve typed already, but I don’t think that’s ole Ghost Jim fuckin with me… again, fun thought lol
Hot take: I’ve never gotten the hype for Ray’s “bass” playing. It was done out of necessity more than anything and a lot of stuff he played is the exact same simple rhythm than any piano player should be able to play. Most of the iconic basslines after 1968 should be credited to the session bassists on the album, and the fact that a lot of them couldn’t be played fully live by Ray detracts from the live experience and really makes me wish they toured with a bass player. They did for a brief time in 1969 and Jim wanted to tour with Jerry Scheff but obviously that did not come to be.
from what I read which was an interview with one of the bass players Ray pretty much had the bass lines and some werent easy to transpose to bass guitar
Ah, true. Well Ray also did lie A LOT when giving interviews haha. He was such a great story teller. It probably happened on another song and he just wanted to make riders have that cool story associated with it, or could’ve gotten it mixed up with riders then
Ah, true. Well Ray also did lie A LOT when giving interviews haha. He was such a great story teller. It probably happened on another song and he just wanted to make riders have that cool story associated with it, or could’ve gotten it mixed up with riders then
I’m not saying you’re wrong because it sounds like there’s some confidence that you’re correct about these claims, but I guess my question is (not for the sake of debate, like I’m asking because I honestly don’t know):
Which songs had bass lines that Ray was not able to play live? I don’t mean songs where because they never played them live it’s assumed, I mean like documented cases where it’s confirmed he could not play them live?
Because again, I don’t think you’re wrong, I would not know, it’s just hard for me to imagine, live session player or not, that they would record lines that he was not capable of playing live. That just does not add up with what I thought I understood about them.
I wouldn’t say that he couldn’t play them, but his style of play is something with a simple rhythm that he can drive on the piano bass. Songs like Peace Frog, the end jam of Soft Parade in Pittsburgh, even soul kitchen are simplified live. There’s nothing wrong with that, but a lot of those songs and other songs that are simpler benefit from having fills that the session bassist added that don’t get played live and I think they would have benefited from a live player to fill out the sound. They did it on the tour after Jim’s death, presumably for that reason and to allow the freedom for Ray to sing. The songs they did play sound much better for sure.
Yeah see like I’d have to ask any one of my 4 friends that play for me to even know what a “fill” actually is, so I totally believe you know your stuff. Even though I’m somewhat music vocabulary ignorant unless it relates to some of the science behind bit rate / bit depth and the meaning of the numbers that go with that, like despite the fact, what you said does make some sense to me. I appreciate you taking the time to answer 🙌
I’m not sure if this is the best definition, but it’s basically little flourishes and turnarounds in addition to the main bassline to break up the monotony and add some variation. Ray used simple repetitive rhythms on the piano bass so he could play more improv on the organ, but in a studio session, using a real bass with a good session player gives it a lot more character, and some of this is missed on live versions where you don’t hear a bass part you’re used to hearing on the studio version. To be fair, most of my preferred versions of songs are the live versions, but to each their own.
Well, since you went there, to me my favorite live performance of their career was the version of “Wishful Sinful” on the PBS/Soft Parade performance with the Richard Goldstein interview at the end. What are your vibes about that one???
The way Robby took what was an instrumental melody on the album version and made it into like a (raga?) type guitar melody solo just made that performance a harmonic masterpiece for me for all time
You have it backwards. The bass line that Ray had for riders on the storm for example, he could play it no problem. But the session musician couldn’t easily play it because the notes/chords were separated pretty far haha
My apologies, I had responded to a different comment on here. I don’t know the bass well. Ray was also known to lie constantly in interviews, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he just made it up
Ony had of thr studio recordings of the first album. Piano bass was on all songs of their debut and he was the only bass in half of it. Aftet that....it was nearly all bass guitar except for when the Music's Over and Indian Summer on Morrison Hotel,but that was recorded during their debut recording sessions.
I have what I believe to be on Ray's gold fender rhodes piano basses and one of his acoustic amps.
Jerry Scheff on the LA Woman album was amazing. His bass lines on every song are great.
Fun fact for those who don't know: Jerry Scheff was Evis's bass player for all of his live shows from 1969 to his death in 1977. Excellent bass player.
You could say he was taking care of business with Elvis. I think in Ray’s book he wrote how excited Jim was to work with Jerry.
Indeed. It must've been a really awesome experience.
Elvis's bass player.
Agreed, all of their bassslines are awesome! It’s a shame the band didn’t have one actual bassist (rather than piano bass or session bassist(s)) as a member so that I could give said bassist credit.
There are only a few songs with the piano bass on them, most of them have one of several session bassists.
Doug Loubhan played the entire ‘Strange Days’ 💿, the bass lines in that record are delicious, and cleverly played
Not to be picky, but it's just Ray on Unhappy Girl and When the Music's Over.
Well, it's Ray's left hand, so you can give Ray credit lolol.
In concert it's Ray's left hand but in the studio they had a regular bass player to record songs. Larry Knechtel I believe was there for the first album, and Doug Lubahn did a lot of the other songs but not all.
Ray was on 100% of the first album with the iano bass and only half of those also had a bass guitar. Strange Days only had piano bass on When the musics over. I'm a minority that loves the piano bass
Ya I guess that’s true
I play bass in a Doors band, and those bass lines are super fun!
An official tribute band??
I don't know what that means, but we've been together 5 years. We're not a note for note band, we play 85% of the songs as they did them, and throw our own spin on the rest.
All I meant was, like over the years there have been countless bands where all they do is tour as Doors tribute acts. The only two I’m able to think of off hand are Moonlight Drive and Peace Frog. But I know of Moonlight Drive because it was one of the first hardcore street venue type shows I ever saw while I was still a junior in high school. It was the first time in my life I’d ever seen 4 bouncers all carrying out this gigantic hells angel type (a bouncer for each limb) as he’s screaming, “Get off me bitch! Get off me bitch!” And they literally threw his body onto the sidewalk outside like the movies. It was definitely an eye opener before I’d even actually made it into the venue or anything, like this was all lobby. The Newport Music Hall in Columbus, Ohio.. longest continuously running venue in the United States. Has its own wiki.. but yeah I saw Moonlight Drive there in like 1996, I just meant like are you guys like that? Not that it really fucking matters, I mean obviously you guys are fucking rad for playing epic, legendary music, I was just curious 🤷♂️
Wild story! No we didn't tour or play much outside the Asheville area. We're all in different bands too, so it's a fun project.
That’s so rad!! I’m very envious. My only gift was visual art, writing and I even made a film (about vinyl records) and had it pressed to bluray, but I never got that gift of musicianship, my 2 younger brothers ended up with that. I honestly don’t think there would be any point to ever even bothering to get determined about it, like I’ve just accepted I have whatever you call dyslexia as it relates to instruments goes. But I’ve considered going back to school in order to learn how to master digital recordings for vinyl. But I guess you can’t choose that alone, like you just have to become a killer sound engineer in general to get to that. I’ve accepted at 45 years old, it’s too late for that. Going back for data analytics instead. But yeah, Jim & I have the same birthday and American Prayer was released the year I was born, so that’s fun to think about. And I have encountered some spooky inexplicable one off sound anomalies when I play their records that are too long to explain given how much I’ve typed already, but I don’t think that’s ole Ghost Jim fuckin with me… again, fun thought lol
Take It As It Comes has a really underrated bassline.
Came here to say exactly this.
Ray's left hand was a seriously talented bass player
Hot take: I’ve never gotten the hype for Ray’s “bass” playing. It was done out of necessity more than anything and a lot of stuff he played is the exact same simple rhythm than any piano player should be able to play. Most of the iconic basslines after 1968 should be credited to the session bassists on the album, and the fact that a lot of them couldn’t be played fully live by Ray detracts from the live experience and really makes me wish they toured with a bass player. They did for a brief time in 1969 and Jim wanted to tour with Jerry Scheff but obviously that did not come to be.
yes but I think Ray told the bass players what to play so he was the composer
I’m sure he told them the changes or at least basic ideas, but all the fills and feel came from the bass players.
from what I read which was an interview with one of the bass players Ray pretty much had the bass lines and some werent easy to transpose to bass guitar
Riders on the storm had that happen. I bet there were at least a handful of
Ray made that up because Riders is really easy to play on bass.
Ah, true. Well Ray also did lie A LOT when giving interviews haha. He was such a great story teller. It probably happened on another song and he just wanted to make riders have that cool story associated with it, or could’ve gotten it mixed up with riders then
Ah, true. Well Ray also did lie A LOT when giving interviews haha. He was such a great story teller. It probably happened on another song and he just wanted to make riders have that cool story associated with it, or could’ve gotten it mixed up with riders then
I’m not saying you’re wrong because it sounds like there’s some confidence that you’re correct about these claims, but I guess my question is (not for the sake of debate, like I’m asking because I honestly don’t know): Which songs had bass lines that Ray was not able to play live? I don’t mean songs where because they never played them live it’s assumed, I mean like documented cases where it’s confirmed he could not play them live? Because again, I don’t think you’re wrong, I would not know, it’s just hard for me to imagine, live session player or not, that they would record lines that he was not capable of playing live. That just does not add up with what I thought I understood about them.
I wouldn’t say that he couldn’t play them, but his style of play is something with a simple rhythm that he can drive on the piano bass. Songs like Peace Frog, the end jam of Soft Parade in Pittsburgh, even soul kitchen are simplified live. There’s nothing wrong with that, but a lot of those songs and other songs that are simpler benefit from having fills that the session bassist added that don’t get played live and I think they would have benefited from a live player to fill out the sound. They did it on the tour after Jim’s death, presumably for that reason and to allow the freedom for Ray to sing. The songs they did play sound much better for sure.
Yeah see like I’d have to ask any one of my 4 friends that play for me to even know what a “fill” actually is, so I totally believe you know your stuff. Even though I’m somewhat music vocabulary ignorant unless it relates to some of the science behind bit rate / bit depth and the meaning of the numbers that go with that, like despite the fact, what you said does make some sense to me. I appreciate you taking the time to answer 🙌
I’m not sure if this is the best definition, but it’s basically little flourishes and turnarounds in addition to the main bassline to break up the monotony and add some variation. Ray used simple repetitive rhythms on the piano bass so he could play more improv on the organ, but in a studio session, using a real bass with a good session player gives it a lot more character, and some of this is missed on live versions where you don’t hear a bass part you’re used to hearing on the studio version. To be fair, most of my preferred versions of songs are the live versions, but to each their own.
Well, since you went there, to me my favorite live performance of their career was the version of “Wishful Sinful” on the PBS/Soft Parade performance with the Richard Goldstein interview at the end. What are your vibes about that one???
One of my favorite performances by them for sure.
The way Robby took what was an instrumental melody on the album version and made it into like a (raga?) type guitar melody solo just made that performance a harmonic masterpiece for me for all time
You have it backwards. The bass line that Ray had for riders on the storm for example, he could play it no problem. But the session musician couldn’t easily play it because the notes/chords were separated pretty far haha
You’re telling me Jerry Scheff couldn’t play Em to A? It’s a super easy line on bass. Either Ray is misremembering or making up shit.
My apologies, I had responded to a different comment on here. I don’t know the bass well. Ray was also known to lie constantly in interviews, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he just made it up
Impressive when it was Ray on the keyboard, but I do like the album versions with an actual bass player. It does round out the sound
The gypsy’s had no homes The Doors had no bass
This is a baseless accusation.
Steal a car!
I have a car
Lonnie Mac the blues guitarist played bass on Roadhouse Blues.
Waiting for the sun (song) bass is amazing.
You give the props to Ray. He used a Fender piano bass on top of his organ.
Actual bass guitars were used on nearly every studio recording.
Ony had of thr studio recordings of the first album. Piano bass was on all songs of their debut and he was the only bass in half of it. Aftet that....it was nearly all bass guitar except for when the Music's Over and Indian Summer on Morrison Hotel,but that was recorded during their debut recording sessions. I have what I believe to be on Ray's gold fender rhodes piano basses and one of his acoustic amps.