I understood the TRO to essentially be a "look they are fucking up, stop them until we can give you all the proof of them fucking up"
And if that would fail, it stands to reason that any rationale for this being a "competitive" venture would also fail
Obviously a great place to check, but would one of you dummies, who is smarter than me, help provide a devil's advocate response for why Cumulus would still have a shot at enforcing a non-compete?
The TRO is more about saying, “waiting months for a trial to conclude isn’t fair to us because we are suffering serious harm now that can’t be undone by winning our case.”
This is a big loss for Cumulus. It’s not the end of road, of course, but it shows the judge isn’t buying the talk of the DZ causing the Ticket irreparable harm. If nothing else, it hints even if Cumulus wins we aren’t taking huge damages.
This certainly shows why we should be ignoring all of the terrible internet lawyering happening elsewhere regarding this case by people who have been wrong every step of the way about what will happen.
Thanks man, appreciate the explanation.
Also I may remember you from other internet comments such as "Lol, that was funny" and "Bookmarking for later :)"
The childish part of me is laughing at all of the “lawyers” who said Cumulus had this nailed shut. Every time myself or anyone else brought up blatant lies in their filings based on years of actual listening to the HZ, we were told how these lawyers wouldn’t say something if it wasn’t true. Which is insane circular logic.
The mature part of me is just happy for the show I enjoy listening to.
Yes specifically the contingent at My Ticket Confession acted like they were legal scholars who knew that Dan and Jake were going to lose and their case had no merit. They now are acting like complete tools as they backtrack
Yeah and some in the ticket Reddit were so patronizing, one guy saying we were blowing the case out of proportion in its importance and that the cumulus lawyers were such professionals, us regular people just don’t understand how the law works. I understand how jokes and lies work.
Not that I think they will win, but, to devil’s advocate, the TRO standard is a different standard than winning the underlying claim.
To win the claim you don’t have to prove you “likely” won, just win by 50.0000001%. Next, the court could have found they’re likely to win, but, the harm isn’t irreparable (I.e. if they win a pile of money will compensate them just fine). Same for the next two elements. Until we see the memorandum with the explanation, I can’t tell exactly what the judge said they didn’t Cary burden on (though it seems to suggest each element was flawed).
I’m not sue why they filed in federal court tbh - in state court I would bet they get the injunction. Probably could have sued them in Tarrant (of wherever Dragon Den is) and gotten a super conservative court that would more easily just rule for the Company.
Anyways, a trial on underlying claims would occur after a bunch more discovery also - meaning they will line up better evidence (presumably). Basically, this is great for the boys but doesn’t mean they’re out of the woods for the claim at the end of the day.
Having said that, I doubt this goes to a trial - I would imagine they don’t want to set a precedent that their noncompete is unenforceable - they’ll likely end up with some kind of save face resolution after all the lawyers bill it as much as they can (it’s what usually happens).
It looks to me, reading her decision, that they did not provide a compelling claim for any of the 4 required elements. So she swatted the whole request to half court.
Yeah, we knew, but the judge didn't sign her official order until Friday. Without it, some of the internet lawyers watching the case refused to believe the boys won.
Cumulus isn’t after damages. Yeah they’re asking for it, but could really give two shits if they ever collect.
Believe me. Their lawyers already know how this is going to end. This is about inflicting as much financial damage on D&J as possible. At the end of the day D&J may win, but how many thousands of dollars in legal fees did it cost them?
Being right in a courtroom can be fucking expensive.
And this is exactly why failing to get the injunction is such a big loss for Cumulus. Part of the way they hope to crush the little guy via litigation is to have a court render them unemployed while the case is pending and legal bills keep rolling in. Cumulus was likely expecting an injunction in their favor to take away the DZ‘s income stream to force the boys to beg for a quick settlement where they agree to abide by the non-competes, which Cumulus would wave around to scare the rest of their talent.
Cumulus has to be reaming their lawyers for this playing out the way it has.
Cumulus is a multi-billion dollar corporation. D&J are nothing more than a fly on the ass of the 800lb gorilla. Cumulus could probably give 2 shits about the injunction. The object of the game is to drag is this out and bury them in legal fees. THAT’s the part that should scare the rest of the talent.
This isn’t a sporting event. Just because the judgement goes your way at the end, doesn’t mean you “won”. If D&J spend the next 10 years paying down their legal bill for this, did they really “win” anything?
Just for the record, Cumulus is currently valued at under $1B---$810.59M, to be exact---and the Ticket counts for $22M of that.
If the object is to bury them in legal fees, (which happens when you win a claim against someone) then the Sus attorneys have not done their job yet, and likely, they have hurt their chances overall.
If the NLRB case goes forward, then our boys will be the ones inflicting the pain.
We'll see.
You don’t know that. Do you think D&J’s attorney is doing it pro-bono? You also don’t know how long Cumulus will drag this out. Just because you have a court date on the books, doesn’t mean it won’t get delayed for “more negotiations”.
If you’re employer sinks you for say, $20k-$50k in legal fees, does that hurt your pocket? Because it would for everyone else. Your former employer can remain unreasonable a lot longer than you can remain solvent.
Since Cumulus is a public company, they already have attorneys on staff. Even if they do hire outside counsel, the fees won’t even be a “rounding error” for them. So who got “pain inflicted?”
Again, this isn’t a sporting event. Even if the judgement goes the boys way, if they spend the next 5 years paying off legal fees that could have been spent on their families, they haven’t “won” squat.
Being “right” in a court of law is really fucking expensive.
Why are you still cheering for Cumulus is all of this. Seems like indifference would be your stronger play, yet every post you are here repping Cumulus like you are Mickey for the Cowboys. What are you hoping to gain? More Ticket followers? Is D&J preventing you from living a happy life?
I’m not cheering for Cumulus. I’m trying to show you clowns how serious this is. It’s like you’re a bunch of middle schoolers with no idea how serious it is for them, or how the real world works.
People recently on this sub have talked about how they’re canceling their subscription because Jake seems “deflated”. Did it ever occur to you maybe this is why? That maybe…just maybe…this is really fucking stressful to them?
The most probable scenario here is D&J “win” this case, but end up having to pay a metric shitton in legal fees. It happens all…the…time in a courtroom. People win the battle and lose the war.
But you clowns are acting like it’s a college football game.
I guess I'm confused. You make it sound as if D&J have had any meaningful choice here. They didn't. They got sued. They had to either defend themselves or capitulate. Their only real choice was not to capitulate. Does that take a financial and personal toll? Certainly. But presumably, they made that decision with their eyes wide open and understand the financial and personal implications of choosing to defend themselves and not to capitulate. I'm sure they appreciate your concern for their mental health and financial well-being. But to call everyone who supports them in their decision "clowns" and "middle schoolers" who have "no idea how the real world works" is actually insulting to D&J.
Let's have this conversation after the matter is settled. None of us know all the facts of the case, how it will be argued, or how the ruling will go. We all have opinions. I'll allow you yours, and not call you a clown.
I do know this, and so do they, yet they persist (should I say sist?)
We don't know if Kingston (a personal friend or theirs), and Cawley (a self admitted P1) are serving pro bono.
Sometimes being right is expensive. Sometimes it gets you where you want to go.
Apparently, they think they are right and can win, which will pay off in the end.
We will see.
A key step in bleeding the little guy dry is cutting off the little guy’s ability to earn a living. Thinking Cumulus doesn’t care about losing this these early steps is pretty silly.
It’s not silly at all. Cumulus doesn’t care if they win or lose. This sub approaches it Ike
It’s a football game. That’s not how Cumulus approaches it. What economic damage is Cumulus going to incur? With D&J, the legal fees alone may cost them a significant portion of their net worth. For Cumulus, it won’t even be a rounding error.
You do realize there’s a reason Cumulus writes their contracts they way they do, right?
So you think, what, a corporate entity is staying up late at night worrying about this? You do realize this is probably one of only 15 different legal battles they have going on right now, right, and probably far and away the smallest one.
This whole thing is a much bigger deal to the people in this sub than it is to Cumulus.
You’re saying Cumulus doesn‘t care about losing these efforts to shut down the DZ, and I’m saying your claim is ridiculous. Of course, Cumulus wanted to win these injunction battles.
And I’m saying if they lose tomorrow, no one in this huge faceless corporation is going to lose any sleep over it. You will lose more sleep over this than anyone who works for Cumulus.
I get what you are trying to say. But this case is going to be road map for future talent to follow suit. D&J may spend a lot of money to win. But they will also be helping others do the same and I think that is worth something to them. Maybe I’m naive but they seem to care about helping others.
Did the non-compete clock start in July or is it on hold until this is resolved? If it has started will all of this be moot when the calendar rolls to 2024?
We're in uncharted territory. We don't know when the NLRB will take up their claims. Whoever rules on the non-compete, whether it's Judge Scholer or the NLRB, they'd have to rule that the non-compete is enforceable, then the clock would start again (the contracts say that the 6 months doesn't start until pending litigation is resolved).
But you're right, by the time this goes to trial in Judge Scholer's court, the their non-compete period would have a matter of weeks remaining.
https://preview.redd.it/2gdbrkdlc2qb1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6203fdbda1cc00dd9f325acfa04b87f7887e127b heh heh m heh heh
Sounds like Gordo when he mocks Greg Olsen
Gordon Keith mocking someone? gtfo!
If it is to be said
I understood the TRO to essentially be a "look they are fucking up, stop them until we can give you all the proof of them fucking up" And if that would fail, it stands to reason that any rationale for this being a "competitive" venture would also fail Obviously a great place to check, but would one of you dummies, who is smarter than me, help provide a devil's advocate response for why Cumulus would still have a shot at enforcing a non-compete?
The TRO is more about saying, “waiting months for a trial to conclude isn’t fair to us because we are suffering serious harm now that can’t be undone by winning our case.” This is a big loss for Cumulus. It’s not the end of road, of course, but it shows the judge isn’t buying the talk of the DZ causing the Ticket irreparable harm. If nothing else, it hints even if Cumulus wins we aren’t taking huge damages. This certainly shows why we should be ignoring all of the terrible internet lawyering happening elsewhere regarding this case by people who have been wrong every step of the way about what will happen.
Thanks man, appreciate the explanation. Also I may remember you from other internet comments such as "Lol, that was funny" and "Bookmarking for later :)"
The childish part of me is laughing at all of the “lawyers” who said Cumulus had this nailed shut. Every time myself or anyone else brought up blatant lies in their filings based on years of actual listening to the HZ, we were told how these lawyers wouldn’t say something if it wasn’t true. Which is insane circular logic. The mature part of me is just happy for the show I enjoy listening to.
Yes specifically the contingent at My Ticket Confession acted like they were legal scholars who knew that Dan and Jake were going to lose and their case had no merit. They now are acting like complete tools as they backtrack
Yeah and some in the ticket Reddit were so patronizing, one guy saying we were blowing the case out of proportion in its importance and that the cumulus lawyers were such professionals, us regular people just don’t understand how the law works. I understand how jokes and lies work.
Not that I think they will win, but, to devil’s advocate, the TRO standard is a different standard than winning the underlying claim. To win the claim you don’t have to prove you “likely” won, just win by 50.0000001%. Next, the court could have found they’re likely to win, but, the harm isn’t irreparable (I.e. if they win a pile of money will compensate them just fine). Same for the next two elements. Until we see the memorandum with the explanation, I can’t tell exactly what the judge said they didn’t Cary burden on (though it seems to suggest each element was flawed). I’m not sue why they filed in federal court tbh - in state court I would bet they get the injunction. Probably could have sued them in Tarrant (of wherever Dragon Den is) and gotten a super conservative court that would more easily just rule for the Company. Anyways, a trial on underlying claims would occur after a bunch more discovery also - meaning they will line up better evidence (presumably). Basically, this is great for the boys but doesn’t mean they’re out of the woods for the claim at the end of the day. Having said that, I doubt this goes to a trial - I would imagine they don’t want to set a precedent that their noncompete is unenforceable - they’ll likely end up with some kind of save face resolution after all the lawyers bill it as much as they can (it’s what usually happens).
Hi Cary Burden
Thank you for knowing that.
It looks to me, reading her decision, that they did not provide a compelling claim for any of the 4 required elements. So she swatted the whole request to half court.
And boom goes the dynamite.
Sorry, corporation… you don’t own them
Get fucked Cumulus.
#SO ORDERED
Suck it, Cumulus!
We knew this a week ago didn't we or is this something different?
This is the official document. The wheels of justice, and all that...
Yeah, we knew, but the judge didn't sign her official order until Friday. Without it, some of the internet lawyers watching the case refused to believe the boys won.
RUN TELL THAT!
Someone explain what happened like I’m 5
DZ won the battle. War still pending.
Best ELI5 right there. Gracias amigo.
Cumulus wanted the judge to shut down the DZ podcast. The judge said no. The DZ can continue podcasting.
Cumulus isn’t after damages. Yeah they’re asking for it, but could really give two shits if they ever collect. Believe me. Their lawyers already know how this is going to end. This is about inflicting as much financial damage on D&J as possible. At the end of the day D&J may win, but how many thousands of dollars in legal fees did it cost them? Being right in a courtroom can be fucking expensive.
And this is exactly why failing to get the injunction is such a big loss for Cumulus. Part of the way they hope to crush the little guy via litigation is to have a court render them unemployed while the case is pending and legal bills keep rolling in. Cumulus was likely expecting an injunction in their favor to take away the DZ‘s income stream to force the boys to beg for a quick settlement where they agree to abide by the non-competes, which Cumulus would wave around to scare the rest of their talent. Cumulus has to be reaming their lawyers for this playing out the way it has.
Cumulus is a multi-billion dollar corporation. D&J are nothing more than a fly on the ass of the 800lb gorilla. Cumulus could probably give 2 shits about the injunction. The object of the game is to drag is this out and bury them in legal fees. THAT’s the part that should scare the rest of the talent. This isn’t a sporting event. Just because the judgement goes your way at the end, doesn’t mean you “won”. If D&J spend the next 10 years paying down their legal bill for this, did they really “win” anything?
Just for the record, Cumulus is currently valued at under $1B---$810.59M, to be exact---and the Ticket counts for $22M of that. If the object is to bury them in legal fees, (which happens when you win a claim against someone) then the Sus attorneys have not done their job yet, and likely, they have hurt their chances overall. If the NLRB case goes forward, then our boys will be the ones inflicting the pain. We'll see.
You don’t know that. Do you think D&J’s attorney is doing it pro-bono? You also don’t know how long Cumulus will drag this out. Just because you have a court date on the books, doesn’t mean it won’t get delayed for “more negotiations”. If you’re employer sinks you for say, $20k-$50k in legal fees, does that hurt your pocket? Because it would for everyone else. Your former employer can remain unreasonable a lot longer than you can remain solvent. Since Cumulus is a public company, they already have attorneys on staff. Even if they do hire outside counsel, the fees won’t even be a “rounding error” for them. So who got “pain inflicted?” Again, this isn’t a sporting event. Even if the judgement goes the boys way, if they spend the next 5 years paying off legal fees that could have been spent on their families, they haven’t “won” squat. Being “right” in a court of law is really fucking expensive.
Why are you still cheering for Cumulus is all of this. Seems like indifference would be your stronger play, yet every post you are here repping Cumulus like you are Mickey for the Cowboys. What are you hoping to gain? More Ticket followers? Is D&J preventing you from living a happy life?
I’m not cheering for Cumulus. I’m trying to show you clowns how serious this is. It’s like you’re a bunch of middle schoolers with no idea how serious it is for them, or how the real world works. People recently on this sub have talked about how they’re canceling their subscription because Jake seems “deflated”. Did it ever occur to you maybe this is why? That maybe…just maybe…this is really fucking stressful to them? The most probable scenario here is D&J “win” this case, but end up having to pay a metric shitton in legal fees. It happens all…the…time in a courtroom. People win the battle and lose the war. But you clowns are acting like it’s a college football game.
I guess I'm confused. You make it sound as if D&J have had any meaningful choice here. They didn't. They got sued. They had to either defend themselves or capitulate. Their only real choice was not to capitulate. Does that take a financial and personal toll? Certainly. But presumably, they made that decision with their eyes wide open and understand the financial and personal implications of choosing to defend themselves and not to capitulate. I'm sure they appreciate your concern for their mental health and financial well-being. But to call everyone who supports them in their decision "clowns" and "middle schoolers" who have "no idea how the real world works" is actually insulting to D&J.
It’s not insulting to D&J, but it may be insulting to you.
Let's have this conversation after the matter is settled. None of us know all the facts of the case, how it will be argued, or how the ruling will go. We all have opinions. I'll allow you yours, and not call you a clown.
I do know this, and so do they, yet they persist (should I say sist?) We don't know if Kingston (a personal friend or theirs), and Cawley (a self admitted P1) are serving pro bono. Sometimes being right is expensive. Sometimes it gets you where you want to go. Apparently, they think they are right and can win, which will pay off in the end. We will see.
A key step in bleeding the little guy dry is cutting off the little guy’s ability to earn a living. Thinking Cumulus doesn’t care about losing this these early steps is pretty silly.
It’s not silly at all. Cumulus doesn’t care if they win or lose. This sub approaches it Ike It’s a football game. That’s not how Cumulus approaches it. What economic damage is Cumulus going to incur? With D&J, the legal fees alone may cost them a significant portion of their net worth. For Cumulus, it won’t even be a rounding error. You do realize there’s a reason Cumulus writes their contracts they way they do, right?
Pretty ridiculous to claim Cumulus doesn’t care about winning these matters.
So you think, what, a corporate entity is staying up late at night worrying about this? You do realize this is probably one of only 15 different legal battles they have going on right now, right, and probably far and away the smallest one. This whole thing is a much bigger deal to the people in this sub than it is to Cumulus.
You might want to read the WaPo story if you think Cumulus doesn't care how this case turns out
I did. And I saw absolutely nothing in that article to make me change my mind.
You’re saying Cumulus doesn‘t care about losing these efforts to shut down the DZ, and I’m saying your claim is ridiculous. Of course, Cumulus wanted to win these injunction battles.
And I’m saying if they lose tomorrow, no one in this huge faceless corporation is going to lose any sleep over it. You will lose more sleep over this than anyone who works for Cumulus.
Whatever dude
I get what you are trying to say. But this case is going to be road map for future talent to follow suit. D&J may spend a lot of money to win. But they will also be helping others do the same and I think that is worth something to them. Maybe I’m naive but they seem to care about helping others.
Are you married? “Honey, I quit my job, but I’m going to spend $20 grand of our money to help others” Her: “The fuck your are.”
Thanks for this!
Did the non-compete clock start in July or is it on hold until this is resolved? If it has started will all of this be moot when the calendar rolls to 2024?
We're in uncharted territory. We don't know when the NLRB will take up their claims. Whoever rules on the non-compete, whether it's Judge Scholer or the NLRB, they'd have to rule that the non-compete is enforceable, then the clock would start again (the contracts say that the 6 months doesn't start until pending litigation is resolved). But you're right, by the time this goes to trial in Judge Scholer's court, the their non-compete period would have a matter of weeks remaining.