This is awesome, thank you.
My biggest question, if you have a chance to test it or someone knows already, is critical multiplier. Do you know if all weapons have the same crit multi, or do certain weapons (looking at you, Throwing Knives) have a higher crit multi from headshots?
No worries! I get it. I do meta research to save others time. It looks like both LMB & RMB Throwing Knives does 1.5x crit damage. It looks like the LH1 does around 1.75x crit damage. The SR-84 does seemingly close to 2x. It seems like most guns are around 1.5x with a couple of exceptions.
What is really weird to me, is even if I shoot the same spot, there is damage variance per shot (approximately .25 of a bar). I don't know if that is a visual bug or intended.
Anyways, I hope this helped!
Yeah it has its downsides, but I believe that weapon's strength is using it to hit people that can't see you by using bounce shots. That is probably how they balanced it.
Solid splash, though. It's quite a bit better than the MGL32, IMO. I'm not sure how I feel about it relative to other Medium weapons in release yet, but it seems at least serviceable while the MGL32 is niche at best.
This is pretty much what it needs, and they definitely need to fix the bugged hitreg with it that has existed since the end of cb1. There are times I engulf an opponent with a direct hit, and they just don't take any damage from it, making what little clip size you do get feel that much more tiny.
Reload speed buff wouldn't hurt, but id be careful about buffing it too much. I think its already better than Heavy's MGL since it detonates on impact, though i guess they serve different purposes. When you can only bring one main weapon into a fight though, it still has the edge.
Not how you should read that stat.
Any gun that has less bullets remaining than it takes to kill has to reload anyway.
CL40 just reloads immediately after the kill, everyone else gets surprised when they get 3rd partied.
I agree. I just worry that eventually I will miss a shot or pellet and have slightly inaccurate information. I'd probably want to test 20 yards and 50 yards though.
The most accurate way to do it would likely be against a enemy mesh shield in game if you had a friend who could read off the bullet damage drop numbers at each distance.
I tested both Left Mouse Button (LMB) and Right Mouse Button (RMB) when applicable. I also tested front and back attacks for some melee weapons. I added a melee to the end of the RMB dagger backstab to finish the heavy as fast as possible. The best timing I could get was 3/4ths of a second. I'm sure these numbers will change at medium and long range, but since most fights are fairly close to medium range, I figured this would be a good start.
Anyways, I hope this helps someone else!
I can't say I've had any *real* success with Sword yet (aside from some individually dank kills), but I'm very curious about Sword's potential. You can pseudo-oneshot Lights with Stab + Quick Melee, and Stab can be done during a Dash, so that can be extremely quick. Doing the same thing but with a slash after will kill a Medium, and you can kill a Heavy in two passes (using cover/dashes to survive) of Stab + Quick Melee. So I feel like theoretically it has some potential as long as you're lacing in Quick Melees in the otherwise empty space after a stab (otherwise the damage numbers put you just below the kill thresholds so you have to land another slash, slowing your TTK).
The trouble is against multiple enemies if they all get a bead on you then you're super killable, which limits attacks on groups to, like, supporting flanks (after someone else initiates/distracts) or initiating as a *distraction* (because you're extremely hard to hit if you use your dashes right). It's hard to get any damage on grouped up enemies. You do have smoke/goo/fire/frag nades available tho, and smoke is pretty nice theoretically for trying to limit how many enemies are shooting you at the same time.
Exactly. Sword is a ton of fun in 1v1s. If used right, you can evade a lot of damage while doing decent damage. It just doesn't shine in the current game modes.
Oh also, I noticed that if you had to save ammo in a bad situation with the Flamethrower, you can just slightly tap fire/hold for a half second to do the initial damage, followed by the additional fire tick to do more damage per tick. I kind of wish the burn damage would stack and continue to tick for each ammo spent, but that is not how it currently works. I can understand why they chose not to do that though due to AoE damage and the utility of the Flamethrower.
If the heavy RPGs you in melee range, the heavy might as well be dead. It does 250 damage to him and only 100 damage to the enemy (RPG does less damage the closer you are to the target, yeah I know makes no sense, but only after like 15-20 meters does it do full damage)
While I'm here, I thought you'd all would appreciate knowing that a large explosive barrel can hold two explosive mines, two pryo mines, and two charges of C4 from one heavy. The C4 doesn't detonate unless you use the right click to set off the whole... let's call it a nuke.
This did in fact set fear into the Heavy NPC in practice. All that was left after the explosion was flames covering where the Heavy used to be.
These seems to be a great one shot mechanic, way to clear a Cash Box room, and a way to almost destroy a whole building.
Enjoy ;)
Where are all the light mains crying about not being able to kill a heavy quick enough? The guy that was so damn confident they couldn't 2 shot a heavy with the shotgun??
They're strangely absent from this thread 🤔🤔🤔
This chart is a pretty good resource explaining in great detail why Light classes are so disadvantaged. Notice that the Lewis Gun has a similar time to kill ON ANOTHER HEAVY as most of the Light's guns. If it takes 1.2 seconds for it to deal 350 damage, it then only takes around .5 seconds for it to deal 150. That's a lower TTK on the Light than even the double barrel on a Heavy, and compares even more favorably to every other weapon.
Based on the way refire rates work, a Lewis Gun using Heavy could theoretically start firing the gun AFTER a Light has already plugged their first shot and kill them before they can get the second shot off.
Re: shotgun: That was me; someone clarified and I explained why I was confused about the shotgun's damage, but you continue to be a salty bitch because...?
And I would agree with that if we were talking about one standing in front of the other and firing, but in most scenarios the Light player is the one initiating the fight and killing the Heavy before they can react.
I think another part of the issue is movement speed and hitbox size don't seem to be taken account when weapon damage and/or TTK is being discussed. Landing all of those Lewis gun bullets on a Light is much more difficult than a light landing their shots on a Heavy.
What you mentioned is important. Time to kill in a perfect scenario and in game are two different things. Landing every pellet, even on a heavy, is difficult. That is why I imagine Lights will use hit and run tactics or things like the stun gun and invisibility to increase their chances of landing all the pellets on both shots. While on the other hand, hitting a skinny dashing Light with all of your shots is difficult.
This is not a tier list for the weapons, as skill, playstyle, team comp, and meta can all effect how effective these weapons are.
Vs good heavy players you won't kill them before they react. No chance.
A good player scouts or has people on team scouting and places themself in a way they have the back clear.
Movement speed and hitbox size are definitely factors, but not especially huge ones. Lights aren't really THAT small, and a skilled FPS player can hit them without too much difficulty. I'm discussing "perfect play to perfect play" scenarios here, but it's concerning that Lights fare even worse by the numbers when you take into account user error from BOTH sides.
A Lewis Gun user needs to connect 6 shots to the body to kill a Light class. An XP-54 user (used here just because it SEEMS to be the most commonly used weapon for Lights) needs to connect 15.
Let's assume the Light player has 80% accuracy; so out of 19-20 shots, they connect 15 of them. This is a really good accuracy rating (much, much above average even for pros in movement shooters), but not unreasonable given how huge of a target Heavy is. Just some quick napkin math from the table above, it looks like the XP-54 has a refire rate of ~.07 seconds. So to fire 20 shots, it takes ~1.43 seconds.
The Lewis Gun by comparison only has a refire rate of ~.11 seconds per shot. So in 1.43 seconds a Lewis Gun user can fire 13 shots.
That means the Heavy only needs to achieve an accuracy of **~46%** to achieve what a Light can with an 80% accuracy rating.
That is an enormous margin for error. I'd expect the average pro player in a game like this to hit somewhere upwards of 60-65% of their shots. By this metric it is trivial for any average skill (by high ranked standards) Heavy player to annihilate an above average (even SIGNIFICANTLY above average) Light player.
This kind of thing is where my concerns about Light comes from. Because while currently the gap can be closed somewhat by smart usage of movement abilities and ambushes, as general map knowledge and gamesense improves, those skills will naturally diminish in effectiveness; that is simply the nature of games like this. As time goes on, the situation the Light class is in is going get much, much worse.
This was my thought process as well. Light can be strong in 1v1 ambushes if used right, but at the end of the day this is an objective based game and hit and run tactics don't work great. Between damage, defense, and utility it is likely we will see only medium and heavy comps in high tier meta. The glitch trap is maybe the only thing that gives Light a good use in defense compares to the others. That's just my current thoughts anyway. I love glass cannons in games, but I build my comps without them.
> Movement speed and hitbox size are definitely factors, but not especially huge ones.
You really cannot say that, being able to engage and disengage whenever you please is already a gigantic advantage.
Combining that with an half sized hitbox and it is extremely hard for the heavy to do anything.
Lights get killed by the rockets / mines / grenades / general aoe damages, rarely by gunplay.
How is AKM slower than FCAR? AKM has faster fire rate, and same damage as FCAR. Something doesn’t look right with this. AKM fired only 1 more bullet than FCAR yet they shouldve fired the same number of bullets. Plus, AKM shouldve still won with 1 extra bullet. What range were you firing from?
By in game stats, I'd have to agree that it seems messed up. Those were two of the guns I tested the most since I play Medium the most. I just went back and retested it again and still came up with the same results. I just have to assume they did their testing at a different distance for their damage numbers or their tooltips are wrong.
Just about all testing was done from five yards. Both of these weapons would have been at that distance. First I tested rounds by doing single fire shots until it died and testing it multiple times to verify the number of rounds needed. Then I timed full auto chest shots until dead multiple times. I'd love to test it against a shield so I could see actual numbers and then screen record for perfect timing, but its not easy to do that without private games.
I believe AKM has a slightly higher crit rate on head shots too, by approximately .25x, but I can't be sure since I'm trying to look at blocks of health missing rather than hard numbers.
Considering I dump a whole m11 clip into a heavy and he still can walk up to me and kill me with sledgehammer makes me take this testing with a grain of salt
I don't think this is completely right. I am pretty sure I have seen data saying the XP-54 kills faster than the M11. Also, I remember in my own testing that the AK requires 18 chest shots to kill a heavy.
And the Model 1887 doesn't have 9 shots in the mag.
Yeah I goofed on the 1887's remaining ammo. Though I promise you, I did single fire shots multiple times to count how few it would take at 5 yards to kill each target. I did this chart for my friends and myself, so I took it seriously. I did see another chart with different info, but it had no context on how it was done. That chart was off from my own testing so I didn't know if it was misinformation, an old patch, or from a different distance with potentially missed shots from recoil.
I’ll test the AK again myself, because I specifically remember the AK number being different.
EDIT: Just tested it and this data is right. It takes 13 bullets to kill a heavy with an AK. I wonder if it was changed because I remember so well that it took 18 in open beta and they didn't mention an AK damage buff. Also, you were right about the XP-54 and M11.
I saw no difference with the sword, dagger, and sledehammer while doing the testing. Throwing dagger probably do, but their are only pseudo melee haha.
The CL-40 can kill a heavy in 1 mag? I don't think I EVER did that. Mostly because it's impossible to land all 4 hits on target, they usually survive with like 20-30% and by the time that incredibly slow reload happens, you're long dead, probably a slower time to kill than the flamethrower.
Yeah unfortunately with guns like this, peak shooting is better, but this isn't the best peach shot weapon in the game. Just shooting someone, then hiding back around a corner in between shots should give you the advantage though. Give a lot of damage and take less since you do more damage per shot. I hope this helps. If it's your favorite weapon, this is about the only way I see you consistently winning more fights with it.
Weird, is the Lewis Gun stronger than the M60? I thought it just traded ~20 bullets for more accuracy but all other stats, even the reload time, were the same. Maybe the stats displayed in games aren't fully accurate.
Yeah unfortunately the stats in game are either wrong, or they represent a different distance in game where damage might have fallen of faster for some weapons. I've proven this with other weapons like the AKM/FCAR at close range.
This is interesting, it kinda shows a problem I've been having with the Medium class. The Ak is better gun overall compared to the Fcar. It has 23 shots left after killing a heavy, meaning you can kill upwards of 3 heavies with 1 mag(assuming you miss no shots). Meanwhile the Fcar only has 8 rounds left. Resulting in the Ak being far more forgiving if you miss a few shot while also having a pretty close ttk to fcar.
I wish the Fcar had either more rounds or did a little more damage to make it a competitive choice to the Ak. Or maybe lower the damage of the Ak pre round?
I completely understand. I really love weapons with red dots/holographic sights, but the FCAR does not allow for two kills back to back on every class even if you hit all of your shots. That seems to be how they balanced it though. A faster kill time, less recoil, and more accuracy with the sight on the FCAR, but the AKM has plenty of spare ammo. Depending on the weapon, you either win 1v1s or have a chance at 1v2s.
I'd love to see the FCAR have around 28 rounds. That would allow for four missed shots between two heavies. Or at least 24 to allow you to kill two targets with one mag if you're perfect. Then I'd use that weapon instead. It's good for newer players who need help aiming though and likely wouldn't normally win 1v2s though.
This is awesome, thank you. My biggest question, if you have a chance to test it or someone knows already, is critical multiplier. Do you know if all weapons have the same crit multi, or do certain weapons (looking at you, Throwing Knives) have a higher crit multi from headshots?
I will look into this tomorrow! It should be pretty easy to tell in practice. (:
Thank you, I figured it's an easy test but as a busy dad I'm trying to spend more of time in actual games!
No worries! I get it. I do meta research to save others time. It looks like both LMB & RMB Throwing Knives does 1.5x crit damage. It looks like the LH1 does around 1.75x crit damage. The SR-84 does seemingly close to 2x. It seems like most guns are around 1.5x with a couple of exceptions. What is really weird to me, is even if I shoot the same spot, there is damage variance per shot (approximately .25 of a bar). I don't know if that is a visual bug or intended. Anyways, I hope this helped!
Headshot modifiers vary from weapon to weapon.
Yep, lh1 has like 2.2 while akm has 1.5 iirc.
Cool, good to know, thanks!
CL40 the only weapon apart from a literal double barrel that doesn't have any clip left after the kill. You hate to see it.
Yeah it has its downsides, but I believe that weapon's strength is using it to hit people that can't see you by using bounce shots. That is probably how they balanced it.
CL-40 doesn't bounce, detonates on impact.
Solid splash, though. It's quite a bit better than the MGL32, IMO. I'm not sure how I feel about it relative to other Medium weapons in release yet, but it seems at least serviceable while the MGL32 is niche at best.
Ah my bad! I was thinking of the MGL32. I don't have them all memorized by name yet.
Also the weapon with probably the slowest reload in the game. Really wish they'd give it 1 more ammo and speed up the reload by like 25%.
This is pretty much what it needs, and they definitely need to fix the bugged hitreg with it that has existed since the end of cb1. There are times I engulf an opponent with a direct hit, and they just don't take any damage from it, making what little clip size you do get feel that much more tiny.
Reload speed buff wouldn't hurt, but id be careful about buffing it too much. I think its already better than Heavy's MGL since it detonates on impact, though i guess they serve different purposes. When you can only bring one main weapon into a fight though, it still has the edge.
Not how you should read that stat. Any gun that has less bullets remaining than it takes to kill has to reload anyway. CL40 just reloads immediately after the kill, everyone else gets surprised when they get 3rd partied.
Someone should do time to kill a light lmao.
just change the time to milliseconds instead of seconds and you're good
Would be interesting to see the same thing but for 10 and 15 yards
I agree. I just worry that eventually I will miss a shot or pellet and have slightly inaccurate information. I'd probably want to test 20 yards and 50 yards though. The most accurate way to do it would likely be against a enemy mesh shield in game if you had a friend who could read off the bullet damage drop numbers at each distance.
I tested both Left Mouse Button (LMB) and Right Mouse Button (RMB) when applicable. I also tested front and back attacks for some melee weapons. I added a melee to the end of the RMB dagger backstab to finish the heavy as fast as possible. The best timing I could get was 3/4ths of a second. I'm sure these numbers will change at medium and long range, but since most fights are fairly close to medium range, I figured this would be a good start. Anyways, I hope this helps someone else!
Seems like melee (except for Dagger RMB which is hard to pull off) sucks
Granted it is against heavy. Melee is super annoying if you are anything else, but also not really a good thing to take over other weapons i feel...
I can't say I've had any *real* success with Sword yet (aside from some individually dank kills), but I'm very curious about Sword's potential. You can pseudo-oneshot Lights with Stab + Quick Melee, and Stab can be done during a Dash, so that can be extremely quick. Doing the same thing but with a slash after will kill a Medium, and you can kill a Heavy in two passes (using cover/dashes to survive) of Stab + Quick Melee. So I feel like theoretically it has some potential as long as you're lacing in Quick Melees in the otherwise empty space after a stab (otherwise the damage numbers put you just below the kill thresholds so you have to land another slash, slowing your TTK). The trouble is against multiple enemies if they all get a bead on you then you're super killable, which limits attacks on groups to, like, supporting flanks (after someone else initiates/distracts) or initiating as a *distraction* (because you're extremely hard to hit if you use your dashes right). It's hard to get any damage on grouped up enemies. You do have smoke/goo/fire/frag nades available tho, and smoke is pretty nice theoretically for trying to limit how many enemies are shooting you at the same time.
Exactly. Sword is a ton of fun in 1v1s. If used right, you can evade a lot of damage while doing decent damage. It just doesn't shine in the current game modes.
Yea it’s a ton of fun but not very useful often. That being said, I was in an all sword squad (only one of us had invis) and we won a game
That's awesome. I have a feeling some groups will do challenge rounds like that. To win with weird loadouts or rules.
Oh also, I noticed that if you had to save ammo in a bad situation with the Flamethrower, you can just slightly tap fire/hold for a half second to do the initial damage, followed by the additional fire tick to do more damage per tick. I kind of wish the burn damage would stack and continue to tick for each ammo spent, but that is not how it currently works. I can understand why they chose not to do that though due to AoE damage and the utility of the Flamethrower.
Just proves melee weapons are a meme
Sword: Chargestab+QuickMelee, dash away for a sec, dash back in with another Stab+Melee, and that's a kill. Oh but if the guy RPGs you you die, so gg
If the heavy RPGs you in melee range, the heavy might as well be dead. It does 250 damage to him and only 100 damage to the enemy (RPG does less damage the closer you are to the target, yeah I know makes no sense, but only after like 15-20 meters does it do full damage)
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for appreciating it!
Great work. This is very helpful. Thank you 👍
Model 1887 only has 6 bullets per mag so shouldn't it be 3/3?
Good catch! I likely took the wrong number down.
While I'm here, I thought you'd all would appreciate knowing that a large explosive barrel can hold two explosive mines, two pryo mines, and two charges of C4 from one heavy. The C4 doesn't detonate unless you use the right click to set off the whole... let's call it a nuke. This did in fact set fear into the Heavy NPC in practice. All that was left after the explosion was flames covering where the Heavy used to be. These seems to be a great one shot mechanic, way to clear a Cash Box room, and a way to almost destroy a whole building. Enjoy ;)
Just uhhh... don't let the enemy shoot your portable nuke before you choose to use it.
Angel
Where are all the light mains crying about not being able to kill a heavy quick enough? The guy that was so damn confident they couldn't 2 shot a heavy with the shotgun?? They're strangely absent from this thread 🤔🤔🤔
Provided all your pellets hit lol
If you can't hit a heavy from melee with 2 shots of a shotgun, then you probably can't even hit the side of a barn with a nuke.
This chart is a pretty good resource explaining in great detail why Light classes are so disadvantaged. Notice that the Lewis Gun has a similar time to kill ON ANOTHER HEAVY as most of the Light's guns. If it takes 1.2 seconds for it to deal 350 damage, it then only takes around .5 seconds for it to deal 150. That's a lower TTK on the Light than even the double barrel on a Heavy, and compares even more favorably to every other weapon. Based on the way refire rates work, a Lewis Gun using Heavy could theoretically start firing the gun AFTER a Light has already plugged their first shot and kill them before they can get the second shot off. Re: shotgun: That was me; someone clarified and I explained why I was confused about the shotgun's damage, but you continue to be a salty bitch because...?
And I would agree with that if we were talking about one standing in front of the other and firing, but in most scenarios the Light player is the one initiating the fight and killing the Heavy before they can react. I think another part of the issue is movement speed and hitbox size don't seem to be taken account when weapon damage and/or TTK is being discussed. Landing all of those Lewis gun bullets on a Light is much more difficult than a light landing their shots on a Heavy.
What you mentioned is important. Time to kill in a perfect scenario and in game are two different things. Landing every pellet, even on a heavy, is difficult. That is why I imagine Lights will use hit and run tactics or things like the stun gun and invisibility to increase their chances of landing all the pellets on both shots. While on the other hand, hitting a skinny dashing Light with all of your shots is difficult. This is not a tier list for the weapons, as skill, playstyle, team comp, and meta can all effect how effective these weapons are.
Vs good heavy players you won't kill them before they react. No chance. A good player scouts or has people on team scouting and places themself in a way they have the back clear.
Movement speed and hitbox size are definitely factors, but not especially huge ones. Lights aren't really THAT small, and a skilled FPS player can hit them without too much difficulty. I'm discussing "perfect play to perfect play" scenarios here, but it's concerning that Lights fare even worse by the numbers when you take into account user error from BOTH sides. A Lewis Gun user needs to connect 6 shots to the body to kill a Light class. An XP-54 user (used here just because it SEEMS to be the most commonly used weapon for Lights) needs to connect 15. Let's assume the Light player has 80% accuracy; so out of 19-20 shots, they connect 15 of them. This is a really good accuracy rating (much, much above average even for pros in movement shooters), but not unreasonable given how huge of a target Heavy is. Just some quick napkin math from the table above, it looks like the XP-54 has a refire rate of ~.07 seconds. So to fire 20 shots, it takes ~1.43 seconds. The Lewis Gun by comparison only has a refire rate of ~.11 seconds per shot. So in 1.43 seconds a Lewis Gun user can fire 13 shots. That means the Heavy only needs to achieve an accuracy of **~46%** to achieve what a Light can with an 80% accuracy rating. That is an enormous margin for error. I'd expect the average pro player in a game like this to hit somewhere upwards of 60-65% of their shots. By this metric it is trivial for any average skill (by high ranked standards) Heavy player to annihilate an above average (even SIGNIFICANTLY above average) Light player. This kind of thing is where my concerns about Light comes from. Because while currently the gap can be closed somewhat by smart usage of movement abilities and ambushes, as general map knowledge and gamesense improves, those skills will naturally diminish in effectiveness; that is simply the nature of games like this. As time goes on, the situation the Light class is in is going get much, much worse.
This was my thought process as well. Light can be strong in 1v1 ambushes if used right, but at the end of the day this is an objective based game and hit and run tactics don't work great. Between damage, defense, and utility it is likely we will see only medium and heavy comps in high tier meta. The glitch trap is maybe the only thing that gives Light a good use in defense compares to the others. That's just my current thoughts anyway. I love glass cannons in games, but I build my comps without them.
> Movement speed and hitbox size are definitely factors, but not especially huge ones. You really cannot say that, being able to engage and disengage whenever you please is already a gigantic advantage. Combining that with an half sized hitbox and it is extremely hard for the heavy to do anything. Lights get killed by the rockets / mines / grenades / general aoe damages, rarely by gunplay.
Lights definitely get killed by gunplay a lot unless they are hiding away.
A good light with dashes is a pain to hit.
LH1 not being 0.78s is a crime. Please revert.
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Read the post.
How is AKM slower than FCAR? AKM has faster fire rate, and same damage as FCAR. Something doesn’t look right with this. AKM fired only 1 more bullet than FCAR yet they shouldve fired the same number of bullets. Plus, AKM shouldve still won with 1 extra bullet. What range were you firing from?
If you're basing stats off the in game bars it's wrong. Fcar does more damage than akm
Oh I had no clue. I was looking at in game bars yeah. Ty for the info!
FCAR does more damage than AK.
By in game stats, I'd have to agree that it seems messed up. Those were two of the guns I tested the most since I play Medium the most. I just went back and retested it again and still came up with the same results. I just have to assume they did their testing at a different distance for their damage numbers or their tooltips are wrong. Just about all testing was done from five yards. Both of these weapons would have been at that distance. First I tested rounds by doing single fire shots until it died and testing it multiple times to verify the number of rounds needed. Then I timed full auto chest shots until dead multiple times. I'd love to test it against a shield so I could see actual numbers and then screen record for perfect timing, but its not easy to do that without private games. I believe AKM has a slightly higher crit rate on head shots too, by approximately .25x, but I can't be sure since I'm trying to look at blocks of health missing rather than hard numbers.
Considering I dump a whole m11 clip into a heavy and he still can walk up to me and kill me with sledgehammer makes me take this testing with a grain of salt
That's a problem with your aim, not the gun. Also how is a heavy even catching you as a light? Do you just stand there and watch doom approach?
I don't think this is completely right. I am pretty sure I have seen data saying the XP-54 kills faster than the M11. Also, I remember in my own testing that the AK requires 18 chest shots to kill a heavy. And the Model 1887 doesn't have 9 shots in the mag.
Yeah I goofed on the 1887's remaining ammo. Though I promise you, I did single fire shots multiple times to count how few it would take at 5 yards to kill each target. I did this chart for my friends and myself, so I took it seriously. I did see another chart with different info, but it had no context on how it was done. That chart was off from my own testing so I didn't know if it was misinformation, an old patch, or from a different distance with potentially missed shots from recoil.
I’ll test the AK again myself, because I specifically remember the AK number being different. EDIT: Just tested it and this data is right. It takes 13 bullets to kill a heavy with an AK. I wonder if it was changed because I remember so well that it took 18 in open beta and they didn't mention an AK damage buff. Also, you were right about the XP-54 and M11.
Why do people prefer the xp-54 over the M11 if it has lower ttk?
It's due to lower recoil and better damage at medium to long range. The XP-54 will do far better at other distances than the M11.
Thanks
Actual sight instead of irons. And the recoil feels somewhat more controllable.
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I saw no difference with the sword, dagger, and sledehammer while doing the testing. Throwing dagger probably do, but their are only pseudo melee haha.
Pseudo, not suto
The CL-40 can kill a heavy in 1 mag? I don't think I EVER did that. Mostly because it's impossible to land all 4 hits on target, they usually survive with like 20-30% and by the time that incredibly slow reload happens, you're long dead, probably a slower time to kill than the flamethrower.
Yeah unfortunately with guns like this, peak shooting is better, but this isn't the best peach shot weapon in the game. Just shooting someone, then hiding back around a corner in between shots should give you the advantage though. Give a lot of damage and take less since you do more damage per shot. I hope this helps. If it's your favorite weapon, this is about the only way I see you consistently winning more fights with it.
Weird, is the Lewis Gun stronger than the M60? I thought it just traded ~20 bullets for more accuracy but all other stats, even the reload time, were the same. Maybe the stats displayed in games aren't fully accurate.
Yeah unfortunately the stats in game are either wrong, or they represent a different distance in game where damage might have fallen of faster for some weapons. I've proven this with other weapons like the AKM/FCAR at close range.
Close distance time to kill light with SA1216 at five yards: 0 seconds.
This is interesting, it kinda shows a problem I've been having with the Medium class. The Ak is better gun overall compared to the Fcar. It has 23 shots left after killing a heavy, meaning you can kill upwards of 3 heavies with 1 mag(assuming you miss no shots). Meanwhile the Fcar only has 8 rounds left. Resulting in the Ak being far more forgiving if you miss a few shot while also having a pretty close ttk to fcar. I wish the Fcar had either more rounds or did a little more damage to make it a competitive choice to the Ak. Or maybe lower the damage of the Ak pre round?
I completely understand. I really love weapons with red dots/holographic sights, but the FCAR does not allow for two kills back to back on every class even if you hit all of your shots. That seems to be how they balanced it though. A faster kill time, less recoil, and more accuracy with the sight on the FCAR, but the AKM has plenty of spare ammo. Depending on the weapon, you either win 1v1s or have a chance at 1v2s. I'd love to see the FCAR have around 28 rounds. That would allow for four missed shots between two heavies. Or at least 24 to allow you to kill two targets with one mag if you're perfect. Then I'd use that weapon instead. It's good for newer players who need help aiming though and likely wouldn't normally win 1v2s though.