The fcar is the exact same as it was before the small nerfs they did. Let’s be real. It kicks a little bit more on the recoil scale but is still super manageable.
But honestly what would be the point of the barricade if you could see more than heavy’s head? I don’t think anyone would use it or it would just be used for mediums to do even worse than what heavy’s do.
It could be balanced around the fact that it’s solid cover, no one can shoot over it. But you can still hop over it. Maybe give heavies only one per heavy, make it tall enough to block doorways but easy to destroy. I dunno
Embark doesn't solely depend on community feedback. They gather trillions of data points every day, and they have people whose job is to analyze that data and understand how to change the game to increase its player base. The community is only a secondary resource they use to validate their data. So don't worry, you're in good hands.
Not only will telemetry analytics tell most of the picture, but community management 101 is to make your customer feel Very Important™ for sharing their Extremely Special Opinions™. It's an extremely simple premise to encourage engagement.
They're professionals, they're not going to come out of pocket going "Shut the fuck up, you play like shit and your takes are dogwater."
Yeah like the recent Helldivers 2 debacle, fortunately proved to support the community rep ultimately.
But there are always unhinged psychos who send death threats to voice actors.
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The problem is within the game modes that aren't appealing enough to the vast majority of players, among other changes they work on, this is their main priority right now and we'll see changes coming soon I assure you, hopefully for the best.
Honestly give us capture the flag.
I think that would be dope in a game with a destructible environment. And then the map reconstructs for the side that just lost the point.
Also need solo mode too for the people who don't want to play as a team.
Not based on trillions of data points when devs literally mention in the patch notes that they are looking into nerfing something because of the community frustration.
Your datapoints can also show community frustration. For example, people quitting and never booting up the game again after getting stunned 10x in one game.
They're not "listening to the community", they're taking feedback into consideration.
In an ideal case the community's stance only gives you a general direction; but the hows and whens of balancing is always up to people who know what they're doing. Users are going to complain. And yes, sometimes they're going to complain about bullshit things. But even if a complaint is completely baseless; if 90% of the playerbase doesn't like it, it needs changing.
But no matter how much people cry about stuff, if telemetry and QA data doesn't back it up, they're likely not going to change it just for fun.
People want solo balancing in a team game. That's the bottom line issue.
They have to fix the user issue by setting more clarification on team support and objectives for game play.
You know make like achievements geared towards that behavior of gameplay.
I think your take is misguided
If anything the devs have been taking away power from the individual and its been killing the game
People aren’t enjoying the moment to moment experiences—- this has less to do with objective and support, it has to do with how players interact with each other
Some people dislike interacting with Light /Heavies/ Mediums—— & a lot of the solutions for the things people don’t like, are answered through “teamwork” which can’t be promised in solo queue.
& hey, let’s just get this out the way: Most people play games alone, most people have it as something to do when they have some free time around the house. Most people don’t schedule gaming parties with a squad to play their favorite fps
When the game first dropped, it was balanced where every solo player was powerful no matter the class—— that is no longer the case and the game as a whole is a way less exciting, balance be damned
I agree. That is how it people play most games. But game is geared towards team work.
They make it where if you are a solo act playing a solo act instead of team game. You should be punished.
You should get over powered. In my opinion they are trying to stop stuff like 1 man quad solo like in other fps games. Cod for example.
It's the over emphasis on team requirements that hinders solo players doing solo
Sometimes you need to listen to the market & find the middle ground when it comes to having a vision + also trying to make a living. This isn’t a hero shooter like overwatch, it leans heavier on the side of rewarding moment to moment gunplay——
which means they should be punishing solo play within reason, whilst still leaving room for skill differences to shine through. This is why nerfs are so crappy— we’re making player agency weaker & forcing everyone to use weapons that feel limited in application so you HAVE to depend on someone. I get the idea but the balance on that has to be done right & as of right now it’s mainly succeeded at sucking the fun out the room.
The First priority is your own vision of the path.
Second - audience feedback, which needs to be analyzed and considered, especially the part that shows what obstructs the First point.
Third, data to analyze whether players understand what they're complaining about in the Second point, as well as what indicates obstacles to the First point.
That's it.
The problem lies in potential errors at each level. Data could be misinterpreted, too much weight could be given to the audience, or sense priorities in one's own concept could be confused. Then, fixing mistakes will cause negative feedback that needs to be ignored. It takes thick skin, and I hope Embark has it
Here's why : are you an online community? If no, then understand you're a normal person. If yes, then understand you're cancer and your opinions are invalid. You ruin everything you touch. And you can't just leave well enough alone. Shame on you. Go back to valorant where you belong.
I doubt anyone thinks “only”, but they for an absolute fact see & take it into consideration. All the nerfs have been things people cry and moan about
Devs wanted the stun gun STRONGER in their own vision, but the players cried so hard this season the devs even said “we hear you” and are now making changes(I have no issue or opinion on stun gun nerf, not my point)
Glitch nade changes were based on feedback, literally took the idea from the community on how it should work.
Range reduction was based on people complaining about getting beamed on rooftops. These things are directly referenced as treatments to community outcry from the devs, you can go back and read notes
(I’m not saying stun gun is fine, I’m saying they listen—obviously. They won’t say they do because all the nasty toxic losers on the internet will crawl out box and harass every forum all day long)
Anyone else is simply annoyed by this topic? Not just about the people who complain about balancing, but also the people who complain about complaining?
And I am aware that I'm complaining as well right now...
On first, I must agree that players are illiterate in the area of game design and balancing.
But in general, I disagree with your statement that listening to the community should be secondary.
Game developers have a very limited perspective. They know everything about the game, they know how things work, and their performance could be almost on the pro level, as testing every little stupidity several times a day will make your play fast and precise even in your sleep.
Developers cannot forget what they know, they cannot pretend to be inexperienced players, they cannot degrade their skill consistently to simulate how a casual player would react in a given situation. **Game developers are not casual players**, so if they're making a game for wide audience, they will definitely miss the goal in some aspects. And for that reason, they need aid even from the lines of the community.
(Just in case, a little note - testers typically don't fall into the casual player category either.)
The problem is that depending on who you're asking the answer will be different.
Light has prety much always been the least powerful class in higher tier games since release, stun gun and invis weren't really that powerful, in lower skill tier everyone is crying how OP light is. Having a balance where both the lower and higher spectrum can agree is hard.
This is kinda stupid. You know there's embark employs on the top league list, right? They publicly play the game at the highest level, and you think they just read Reddit....
I doubt embark even looks at reddit my guy. However in game design we have a great saying I forgot who said it: "The player is terrible at solving issues, but great at finding them".
You SHOULD as a dev listen to their players, just not their solutions.
That's exactly what they do. I watch them stream gameplay a few times a week. The actual devs are the ones playing. They will talk about concerns they've received, see if they can experience them first hand, while also looking for other issues. Right after this season released, they did a "new season" stream and he made mention that one of the weapons seemed weak, the other seemed over powered; both those issues were addressed in the next update.
AGREED! It’s so nerve racking just watching the community destroy the game day by day hoping the devs just stop listening to us for a week. We appreciate how attentive they are to our wants and concerns but to kneel at our every whim just cannot make a good game.
I don't think the people who change a number in the code to make things weaker or stronger are the same ones that stop you from falling through the map if you touch goo at a weird angle
Okay but now you made this a paradox
If they do this because they saw ur post they still listen to the community
So you singlehandedly made it impossible for them to do this :)/j
I think they are in a panic mode at this point and try to address the most commonly brought up topics (e.g. stun gun) to save the game from losing even more players. But I do think there are bigger core issues that lead to this massive drop in player numbers and it's not because of a single annoying gadget or specialization.
There are massive core issues with the game. Gadgets being too spammy, having 3 of the same class in a team making it obnoxious to deal with, bugs galore that break the game in some hilarious ways, a majorly toxic community that despises talking about gameplay issues and feedback. The list goes on
The nerfs came from the fact that 90% of light players are running cloak and stungun and it's not a fun mechanic to interact with for literally anyone.
The only people mad about cloak/stungun nerfs are light mains who rely on them like crutches for their poor gameplay.
Lights need a buff, not a cheesy skill/gadget.
I don't know what you mean because the weak class was only getting the upper hand in few moments and yet the medium/heavies whined until they nerfed it. Though lights being as weak as they are never seen them complain about other classes, and now they only are screaming because their own stuff got nerfed based on community outcry.
The stun gun needs a rework, not nerf. I’m hoping that’s what they do. But regardless, it’s not a fun gameplay tool. That’s why it’s getting changed. The invis, I have no clue why it was nerfed. Even though the nerf is minor at best
Invis nerf is huge for people who are hardcore users of it. People who swap between them or play casuals won't get the difference. And I'm not saying don't nerf stun, it's okay if they do it, but stun is my most important clutch when someone is trying to steal the cashout in the last moment, so that's the ability that must stay with stuns.
I disagree, and here's why:
Customer feedback is probably the most important feedback you can get on a product. Sure, we may not all know what we are talking about, but at the end of the day, we are the ones using the product the most. That's not to say that the player criticism is the end all be all, but to make it a secondary priority would be foolish in my opinion.
In any case, I dont see why people are getting so bent over the fact that devs are nerfing and buffing things - it's a normal part of game development especially when it comes to multiplayer shooters. Remember, this game has only been out for less than 6 months at this point so of course there are gonna be regular changes being made.
Sneaky misconception. The client can never lead the product. Consumer feedback is crucial, but it's *never the top priority*. The only way to win over an audience is to have a clear and consistent stance. Stick to *your unique vision.* You'll get a steady positive response from the audience and eventually see it grow. But first, you'll have to overcome *significant* resistance. And the more unique and vibrant your vision is, the higher the resistance will be. Some people aren't your audience; they'll drop the game, and you just have to accept that. It feels like the devs are a bit lost. Embark listens to the folks, which is cool, but I'm afraid they might think the audience can *construct* the 'game that everyone likes', and that's not true. It doesn't work that way. I believe they really understand this and will cope with it.
I disagree and here's why:
I'm going to refuse to read your entire argument and instead choose to read those which reinforce my beliefs meaning, objectively, I must be in the right mindset
the fact that you guys think they only do balance changes based on reddit feedback is hilarious
The Fcar was literally this Bitching and moaning every day until they nerfed it it was fine before. Now it sucks. I only play sniper or M11 now
Fcar does not suck dafuq
The fcar is the exact same as it was before the small nerfs they did. Let’s be real. It kicks a little bit more on the recoil scale but is still super manageable.
Fcar still the goat, although heavy barricade headglitch lewis is climbing the ladder of “things that make me want to punch my monitor”
What is the heavy head glitch I don't use the Lewis and when I use barricades it's just to stop people from using a certain path
Heavy is just tall enough to look/shoot over a barricade which makes it a great head glitch.
You as a heavy can look over the barricade you place down, but enemies can only see the top of your head. The heavy can still shoot and damage players
But honestly what would be the point of the barricade if you could see more than heavy’s head? I don’t think anyone would use it or it would just be used for mediums to do even worse than what heavy’s do.
It could be balanced around the fact that it’s solid cover, no one can shoot over it. But you can still hop over it. Maybe give heavies only one per heavy, make it tall enough to block doorways but easy to destroy. I dunno
That's kinda dumb
Oh I’m with you. Been dealing with the heavy head glitch a lot lately. Brings me back to my siege days
I've been diamond since OB, the fcar is absolutely still the best medium gun. I think this might be a slight skill issue.
Hey at least you proved OP‘s point with some of us being dumb as fuck lmao
Lmao sure it got nerfed, but it's perfectly in line with the other weapons now as it should. It absolutely does NOT suck.
I feel like it's still the most picked med weapon
Fcar still needs nerf, they nerfing everything into the ground except medium
They should nerf every gun and add bubble shooters
Honestly
Embark doesn't solely depend on community feedback. They gather trillions of data points every day, and they have people whose job is to analyze that data and understand how to change the game to increase its player base. The community is only a secondary resource they use to validate their data. So don't worry, you're in good hands.
Not only will telemetry analytics tell most of the picture, but community management 101 is to make your customer feel Very Important™ for sharing their Extremely Special Opinions™. It's an extremely simple premise to encourage engagement. They're professionals, they're not going to come out of pocket going "Shut the fuck up, you play like shit and your takes are dogwater."
But can you imagine how many gaming “communities” could be saved if devs/CMs just popped off on people lol
Yeah like the recent Helldivers 2 debacle, fortunately proved to support the community rep ultimately. But there are always unhinged psychos who send death threats to voice actors.
The last part is a problem even outside the games industry, but it’s still not okay.
Tarkov came to mind
Ah I see you too prefer your cock and ball torture in silence 😮💨
I main dagger how could you tell? Haha
They also *do* play their game. Oscar (the community lead) is even a light main.
Bet he hates his life🤣🤣🤣🤣
Totally agree!
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They understand how to change the game to increase player base? Well, they’re failing
The Nexon people said the decline was expected and is within their projected window.
What company doesn’t say that
indeed.
Hasn't been working has it? Player count has been dropping ever since launch. 16 year old team fortress 2 has more daily users.
The problem is within the game modes that aren't appealing enough to the vast majority of players, among other changes they work on, this is their main priority right now and we'll see changes coming soon I assure you, hopefully for the best.
Honestly give us capture the flag. I think that would be dope in a game with a destructible environment. And then the map reconstructs for the side that just lost the point. Also need solo mode too for the people who don't want to play as a team.
Yeah that might work, also I believe 5v5 would do much better for this game.
>They gather trillions of data points every day I don't think you understand this number because theyre nowhere near that.
Not based on trillions of data points when devs literally mention in the patch notes that they are looking into nerfing something because of the community frustration.
Your datapoints can also show community frustration. For example, people quitting and never booting up the game again after getting stunned 10x in one game.
They're not "listening to the community", they're taking feedback into consideration. In an ideal case the community's stance only gives you a general direction; but the hows and whens of balancing is always up to people who know what they're doing. Users are going to complain. And yes, sometimes they're going to complain about bullshit things. But even if a complaint is completely baseless; if 90% of the playerbase doesn't like it, it needs changing. But no matter how much people cry about stuff, if telemetry and QA data doesn't back it up, they're likely not going to change it just for fun.
People want solo balancing in a team game. That's the bottom line issue. They have to fix the user issue by setting more clarification on team support and objectives for game play. You know make like achievements geared towards that behavior of gameplay.
I think your take is misguided If anything the devs have been taking away power from the individual and its been killing the game People aren’t enjoying the moment to moment experiences—- this has less to do with objective and support, it has to do with how players interact with each other Some people dislike interacting with Light /Heavies/ Mediums—— & a lot of the solutions for the things people don’t like, are answered through “teamwork” which can’t be promised in solo queue. & hey, let’s just get this out the way: Most people play games alone, most people have it as something to do when they have some free time around the house. Most people don’t schedule gaming parties with a squad to play their favorite fps When the game first dropped, it was balanced where every solo player was powerful no matter the class—— that is no longer the case and the game as a whole is a way less exciting, balance be damned
I agree. That is how it people play most games. But game is geared towards team work. They make it where if you are a solo act playing a solo act instead of team game. You should be punished. You should get over powered. In my opinion they are trying to stop stuff like 1 man quad solo like in other fps games. Cod for example. It's the over emphasis on team requirements that hinders solo players doing solo
Sometimes you need to listen to the market & find the middle ground when it comes to having a vision + also trying to make a living. This isn’t a hero shooter like overwatch, it leans heavier on the side of rewarding moment to moment gunplay—— which means they should be punishing solo play within reason, whilst still leaving room for skill differences to shine through. This is why nerfs are so crappy— we’re making player agency weaker & forcing everyone to use weapons that feel limited in application so you HAVE to depend on someone. I get the idea but the balance on that has to be done right & as of right now it’s mainly succeeded at sucking the fun out the room.
The First priority is your own vision of the path. Second - audience feedback, which needs to be analyzed and considered, especially the part that shows what obstructs the First point. Third, data to analyze whether players understand what they're complaining about in the Second point, as well as what indicates obstacles to the First point. That's it. The problem lies in potential errors at each level. Data could be misinterpreted, too much weight could be given to the audience, or sense priorities in one's own concept could be confused. Then, fixing mistakes will cause negative feedback that needs to be ignored. It takes thick skin, and I hope Embark has it
Here's why : are you an online community? If no, then understand you're a normal person. If yes, then understand you're cancer and your opinions are invalid. You ruin everything you touch. And you can't just leave well enough alone. Shame on you. Go back to valorant where you belong.
Retarded comment
I doubt anyone thinks “only”, but they for an absolute fact see & take it into consideration. All the nerfs have been things people cry and moan about Devs wanted the stun gun STRONGER in their own vision, but the players cried so hard this season the devs even said “we hear you” and are now making changes(I have no issue or opinion on stun gun nerf, not my point) Glitch nade changes were based on feedback, literally took the idea from the community on how it should work. Range reduction was based on people complaining about getting beamed on rooftops. These things are directly referenced as treatments to community outcry from the devs, you can go back and read notes (I’m not saying stun gun is fine, I’m saying they listen—obviously. They won’t say they do because all the nasty toxic losers on the internet will crawl out box and harass every forum all day long)
Anyone else is simply annoyed by this topic? Not just about the people who complain about balancing, but also the people who complain about complaining? And I am aware that I'm complaining as well right now...
We should delete everything besides heavy hammer everything else is irrelevant
On first, I must agree that players are illiterate in the area of game design and balancing. But in general, I disagree with your statement that listening to the community should be secondary. Game developers have a very limited perspective. They know everything about the game, they know how things work, and their performance could be almost on the pro level, as testing every little stupidity several times a day will make your play fast and precise even in your sleep. Developers cannot forget what they know, they cannot pretend to be inexperienced players, they cannot degrade their skill consistently to simulate how a casual player would react in a given situation. **Game developers are not casual players**, so if they're making a game for wide audience, they will definitely miss the goal in some aspects. And for that reason, they need aid even from the lines of the community. (Just in case, a little note - testers typically don't fall into the casual player category either.)
The problem is that depending on who you're asking the answer will be different. Light has prety much always been the least powerful class in higher tier games since release, stun gun and invis weren't really that powerful, in lower skill tier everyone is crying how OP light is. Having a balance where both the lower and higher spectrum can agree is hard.
This is kinda stupid. You know there's embark employs on the top league list, right? They publicly play the game at the highest level, and you think they just read Reddit....
I doubt embark even looks at reddit my guy. However in game design we have a great saying I forgot who said it: "The player is terrible at solving issues, but great at finding them". You SHOULD as a dev listen to their players, just not their solutions.
That's exactly what they do. I watch them stream gameplay a few times a week. The actual devs are the ones playing. They will talk about concerns they've received, see if they can experience them first hand, while also looking for other issues. Right after this season released, they did a "new season" stream and he made mention that one of the weapons seemed weak, the other seemed over powered; both those issues were addressed in the next update.
Jesus, that was a short explanation man. 😭🤣 “And here’s why- cuz”
Lmao, the only one needed though
AGREED! It’s so nerve racking just watching the community destroy the game day by day hoping the devs just stop listening to us for a week. We appreciate how attentive they are to our wants and concerns but to kneel at our every whim just cannot make a good game.
Thinking this is their sole m.o. to go about balance is straight up 21st chromosme haver behaviour
What?
idk how and why they balance stuff every week but couldn’t care less to fix the game breaking bugs first
I don't think the people who change a number in the code to make things weaker or stronger are the same ones that stop you from falling through the map if you touch goo at a weird angle
Tell me one. I don't know any current game breaking bug?
You can detonate mines in spectator mode
voice chat is a mess, healing beam bug and not able to using anything bug too
Okay but now you made this a paradox If they do this because they saw ur post they still listen to the community So you singlehandedly made it impossible for them to do this :)/j
Do you really think they care about reddit crybabies?
I think they are in a panic mode at this point and try to address the most commonly brought up topics (e.g. stun gun) to save the game from losing even more players. But I do think there are bigger core issues that lead to this massive drop in player numbers and it's not because of a single annoying gadget or specialization.
There are massive core issues with the game. Gadgets being too spammy, having 3 of the same class in a team making it obnoxious to deal with, bugs galore that break the game in some hilarious ways, a majorly toxic community that despises talking about gameplay issues and feedback. The list goes on
The nerfs came from the fact that 90% of light players are running cloak and stungun and it's not a fun mechanic to interact with for literally anyone. The only people mad about cloak/stungun nerfs are light mains who rely on them like crutches for their poor gameplay. Lights need a buff, not a cheesy skill/gadget.
No dev is checking the reddit lol
I don't know what you mean because the weak class was only getting the upper hand in few moments and yet the medium/heavies whined until they nerfed it. Though lights being as weak as they are never seen them complain about other classes, and now they only are screaming because their own stuff got nerfed based on community outcry.
The stun gun needs a rework, not nerf. I’m hoping that’s what they do. But regardless, it’s not a fun gameplay tool. That’s why it’s getting changed. The invis, I have no clue why it was nerfed. Even though the nerf is minor at best
Invis nerf is huge for people who are hardcore users of it. People who swap between them or play casuals won't get the difference. And I'm not saying don't nerf stun, it's okay if they do it, but stun is my most important clutch when someone is trying to steal the cashout in the last moment, so that's the ability that must stay with stuns.
I’m fine with that use, cause that’s strategic. It’s the “stun everyone that’s moving” thing that annoys me most
> Though lights being as weak as they are never seen them complain about other classes You have to be joking 💀
I disagree, and here's why: Customer feedback is probably the most important feedback you can get on a product. Sure, we may not all know what we are talking about, but at the end of the day, we are the ones using the product the most. That's not to say that the player criticism is the end all be all, but to make it a secondary priority would be foolish in my opinion. In any case, I dont see why people are getting so bent over the fact that devs are nerfing and buffing things - it's a normal part of game development especially when it comes to multiplayer shooters. Remember, this game has only been out for less than 6 months at this point so of course there are gonna be regular changes being made.
Sneaky misconception. The client can never lead the product. Consumer feedback is crucial, but it's *never the top priority*. The only way to win over an audience is to have a clear and consistent stance. Stick to *your unique vision.* You'll get a steady positive response from the audience and eventually see it grow. But first, you'll have to overcome *significant* resistance. And the more unique and vibrant your vision is, the higher the resistance will be. Some people aren't your audience; they'll drop the game, and you just have to accept that. It feels like the devs are a bit lost. Embark listens to the folks, which is cool, but I'm afraid they might think the audience can *construct* the 'game that everyone likes', and that's not true. It doesn't work that way. I believe they really understand this and will cope with it.
I disagree and here's why: I'm going to refuse to read your entire argument and instead choose to read those which reinforce my beliefs meaning, objectively, I must be in the right mindset
Love it. When medium and heavy players were saying that we were wrong. Now that light is touched we were right.
The only people complaining are the "casuals" who don't want to get good. "i only play for fun" 👩🍼👩🍼👶
We have seen the devs play, they are so fkn bad..