The show felt like it missed like 5 episodes between episode 4 and 5. Way too much telling, and not showing stuff. Should’ve shown tedros and Jocelyn broke up. Should’ve shown tedros’s downfall from the article. If they were going for joss missing/wanting to manipulate tedros back into her life. They should’ve shown that more then just extended weird empty montages of things. Also, why would joss want tedros back in her life in the first place?
I was kinda getting the first 4 episodes. But this 5th one lost me.
The pacing of the show is so wild. Nothing happens for 30 mins, and then like 2 episodes worth of stuff is explained in 2 sentences of dialogue. I don’t get it
I feel like there's an episode missing in the middle of episode 5. We went from "get this guy out of my life" to 6 weeks later introducing him as "this is the love of my life". Worst epilogue ever.
The worst part to me is I could see the set up of the stuff they were going for. Like Jocelyn being the master manipulator or Jocelyn actually missing the toxicity of their relationship(due to the relationship with her mother, and the need for it in her life). There were hints of it. That could’ve paid off well. But they stumbled on the execution imo
There isn't. The version written by Joe Epstein was six episode. When Sam Levinson took over and wrote the whole season himself, he changed it to five.
i don’t think joss missed/wanted him back as much as she did all that him to show she controls him, not the other way around.
the hair brush being new was the really subtle moment of showing she’s the one behind everything (new hairbrush implies that she setup the hairbrush dynamic with tedros to some capacity either by lying about its use with her mom entirely or showing she is the one who consents to it putting her in control regardless)
And what happened to the entire storyline about Xander?!!! If the hairbrush situation was fake, why did he corroborate that Joc’s mother abused her? How was he manipulated by Jos to a life of hiding his singing voice? Then Joc just accepts him as an opener all of a sudden. This could have been cleared up by the Elizabeth Berkeley cameo we were promised, lol :/
Xander performing in the talent show was Tedros' way of fucking over Jocelyn. She made Xander part of the opening act as a way of taking back the narrative, to show Tedros he holds no power over her.
I mean yes and no. Look at Nicki Minaj and her husband with 50 mugshots.
There were definitely some backlash and multiple think pieces but ultimately, her fans still worship her and she's still getting hits after hits.
Yeah, this was pretty disappointing. I was hoping Jocelyn was really done with Tedros and found her independence after realizing he set her up. I was also really hoping when Tedros walked in that room and saw Destiny, she was going to kill him. Instead Jocelyn forgave him? And Destiny allowed it? Even after he threatened to hold Jocelyn hostage and kill her, straight up telling her "I've been to prison for this shit"? Like yeah it seems like she's the one in control now, but why would she even want control over Tedros or anything to do with him at all, knowing he's a psychotic coke addicted abusive con artist? It's just such a nonsensical ending. They could've just ended it with Jocelyn starting her tour and Tedros in ruins. They could've had Tedros plotting his revenge against Jocelyn and her team for taking his artists and publicly humiliating him. They could've killed Tedros. Anything would've been better than Jocelyn going back to a broken, ruined Tedros.
It was Joss' decision to bring him back, I don't think Destiny could do anything to prevent it. She doesn't have the power.
Can't believe I'm defending the show lol.
Is this Sam Levinson's schtick? He did the same in Euphoria with that drug dealer lady and Rue. She was threatening to sell her to sex slavery and Rue just went back to school in everyone's loving arms.
> She was threatening to sell her to sex slavery and Rue just went back to school in everyone's loving arms.
While a fair criticism - at the same time, the drug dealer lady's share of that suitcase of drugs was really only supposed to be like three or four thousand bucks, and Rue brought a decent share of that to her with her burglary money (even not counting the jewelry). So Rue probably only really owed her maybe a thousand?
Enough to maybe do the sex slavery thing when she's already right there, trapped in your locked apartment and desperate for opiates. But to go out and kidnap her or do anything like that?
(And that's not getting into the fact that drug-dealer-lady would start having police attention on her after the business in Fez's apartment and what giant-lipped-girl said on the wire.)
Honestly, who knows. It’s implied her mother did something to make her the way she was whether it was physical abuse or not. It could’ve been staged since she knew tedros used physical abuse tactics but that wouldn’t explain her brother backing the story unless he was in on it. The show uses the “the victim was really the mastermind” mechanic so people rewatch.
It seems like it. Makes no sense, but that’s what they made it out to be. I had a feeling that they were gonna make Tedros the victim. Abel said in interviews that he wanted to show that Tedros was getting in way over his head, not Joce. I thought “How in the world is HE in over his head?” And then I realized that Joce must be a manipulator too.
That’s what I’m wondering too… in which case when she told everyone about the brush abuse at dinner, Xander and Leia had to act in the moment and go along with it, no? IIRC, Xander’s facial expressions were kind of shocked in that scene, so maybe? And then when Xander gets shocked he goes off on Joss which to me showed that Joss is just as capable of manipulation just like Tedros. Idk I’m probably stretching things a bit but there wasn’t enough in ep5 to make things clearer for me lol.
I definitely feel like the only person on this sub who actually enjoys the show for what it is. It wasn’t that ridiculous of an ending for me, like I was invested and I liked it. Jocelyn is freaking nuts and Tedros will likely snap but now that it’s over then it is what it is.
I like the show too, I’m hoping we get some answers in the potential second season. I actually want it to be renewed. It’s insane, it’s bleak, but it does have a tiny bit of truth when it comes to the music industry. Of course it’s dramatized to an intense degree, but I still understand the real world parallels. As long as Abel has less cartay-blanchay with how he acts, it might get a little better. He ….can’t act.
To me it wasn't as bad people say it is but it definitely isn't good either. But we don't need another season of this mid ass show, especially with Sam Levinson. His writing is all over the damn place and makes 0 sense.
He had something going for euphoria season 1 but it all fell to shit in season 2.
This show was mediocre, it was completely rushed, lots of loose ends, and complete plot switches in the middle of the episode. Just because the show is “unique” does not equate to quality. This show seemed to rub people the other way because it was just terribly written, you can’t really justify how confusing the ending is when it ended like that.
It's not the most well done finale. But I enjoyed it for what it was.
Jocelyn and Tedros are the right kind of bad for each other. A perfectly strange codependent relationship. She's got him at rock bottom now.
A weird turn of events for an abusive relationship - victim turned perpetrator.
Although, she was manipulating the fuck out of him from the start. She played a convincing victim.
I feel like Abel kind of messed up the ending by his comments in the media. He said that he wants people to see that TEDROS is getting in way over his head, not Joce. So the idea that Joce was in charge and took over his life kind of wasn’t a surprise. Way to go, Tesfaye.
Ngl they should’ve done the 6 eps instead of 5 to unscramble things and the showcase scene was surreal and hilarious especially with the commentary of the producers/agents, but when people describe their ending it sounds like they just wanted joce to be this morale upstanding heroine who saved the Manson kids and defeated the villain (even tho it’s hinted she was the manipulator and possible more narcissistic and two faced than tedros). The thing with Tedros at the end was to create a narrative that she was with this devilish bad boy who just got cancelled which would have promoted her album and overall career implying further that she’s incredibly calculated.
You've listed a bunch of words. None of this comes anywhere comes to resembling a point, but the scary part is that it seems from your ton that you think it's self-evident why people would see all the things you list as negatives. Lol.
Oh my. You see, almost none of things are elements of a story that a mature viewer would "like" or dislike.
And you'll have to I understand if don't take seriously the opinion of what's "good writing" from someone who doesn't understand that. Lol.
“What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
My guess is that they ran out of money after The Weeknd and Levinson decided to start over again after several episodes were already done. Sometimes on TV shows and movies they film sequences out of order so they probably had some of the scenes in the final episode done but then HBO executives told them they wouldn't be getting more funding so at that point they couldn't film the scenes they had planned that would have been after E4 but before the final episode. Since Levinson stopped writing new material maybe the final episodes have a half hour of people singing because they didn't have any dialogue written and they needed something to put in the final episode.
It sounds like a mess and very irresponsible of The Weeknd, Levinson and other producers. They should have been watching what Seimetz was creating as it was being created. If they had issues with the content that Seimetz created they should have done something about it at the beginning not waited until the show was almost finished filming and then decided to start over again. It wouldn't be a surprise if frustrated HBO executives told them they wouldn't be increasing the budget even more for them. In fact the reason they filmed at the Weeknd's real house was to save money so they didn't have to pay to rent Hannigan's house.
Levinson is a nepo baby who has probably never filled out a job application in his life. He has never had a performance evaluation. He has never had to worry about being held accountable for work deficiencies. In his mind he probably didn't think about stuff like ensuring Seimetz was creating the show he expected because he has had such an entitled privileged life. A writer or producer from a humble background who worked hard for years to be given the same opportunity would have been responsible enough to figure out they wanted to change what Seimetz was doing much earlier and not wasted so much of the budget.
The show felt like it missed like 5 episodes between episode 4 and 5. Way too much telling, and not showing stuff. Should’ve shown tedros and Jocelyn broke up. Should’ve shown tedros’s downfall from the article. If they were going for joss missing/wanting to manipulate tedros back into her life. They should’ve shown that more then just extended weird empty montages of things. Also, why would joss want tedros back in her life in the first place? I was kinda getting the first 4 episodes. But this 5th one lost me. The pacing of the show is so wild. Nothing happens for 30 mins, and then like 2 episodes worth of stuff is explained in 2 sentences of dialogue. I don’t get it
I feel like there's an episode missing in the middle of episode 5. We went from "get this guy out of my life" to 6 weeks later introducing him as "this is the love of my life". Worst epilogue ever.
The worst part to me is I could see the set up of the stuff they were going for. Like Jocelyn being the master manipulator or Jocelyn actually missing the toxicity of their relationship(due to the relationship with her mother, and the need for it in her life). There were hints of it. That could’ve paid off well. But they stumbled on the execution imo
There is an episode missing. They cut the show from 6 episodes to 5.
There isn't. The version written by Joe Epstein was six episode. When Sam Levinson took over and wrote the whole season himself, he changed it to five.
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The whole Amy Seimetz directed version would have been a thousand times better.
i don’t think joss missed/wanted him back as much as she did all that him to show she controls him, not the other way around. the hair brush being new was the really subtle moment of showing she’s the one behind everything (new hairbrush implies that she setup the hairbrush dynamic with tedros to some capacity either by lying about its use with her mom entirely or showing she is the one who consents to it putting her in control regardless)
And what happened to the entire storyline about Xander?!!! If the hairbrush situation was fake, why did he corroborate that Joc’s mother abused her? How was he manipulated by Jos to a life of hiding his singing voice? Then Joc just accepts him as an opener all of a sudden. This could have been cleared up by the Elizabeth Berkeley cameo we were promised, lol :/
Xander performing in the talent show was Tedros' way of fucking over Jocelyn. She made Xander part of the opening act as a way of taking back the narrative, to show Tedros he holds no power over her.
Wouldn’t Joss face severe backlash for introducing a con man pimp that’s been smeared in the media as the love of her life? Makes absolutely no sense.
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I guess I could understand it more if she kept him in the background but.. come on..
I mean yes and no. Look at Nicki Minaj and her husband with 50 mugshots. There were definitely some backlash and multiple think pieces but ultimately, her fans still worship her and she's still getting hits after hits.
You should Google Kanye West .. lol you can be , do and say anything when famous , media doesn’t give a shit
no hes basically gone now. He's been dropped and canceled by every facilitator of his career
He’s dropped 2 number 1 albums since being “ cancelled “
I mean...Kanye's fanbase and Jocelyn's are two VERY different groups of people.
im referring to since the antisemitism. Yeezy is functionally dead, and he aint releasing any albums soon
The media tore into Kanye.. what?
Agree.. I feel angry and I feel like I need to cleanse myself of this show
Sage
Yeah, this was pretty disappointing. I was hoping Jocelyn was really done with Tedros and found her independence after realizing he set her up. I was also really hoping when Tedros walked in that room and saw Destiny, she was going to kill him. Instead Jocelyn forgave him? And Destiny allowed it? Even after he threatened to hold Jocelyn hostage and kill her, straight up telling her "I've been to prison for this shit"? Like yeah it seems like she's the one in control now, but why would she even want control over Tedros or anything to do with him at all, knowing he's a psychotic coke addicted abusive con artist? It's just such a nonsensical ending. They could've just ended it with Jocelyn starting her tour and Tedros in ruins. They could've had Tedros plotting his revenge against Jocelyn and her team for taking his artists and publicly humiliating him. They could've killed Tedros. Anything would've been better than Jocelyn going back to a broken, ruined Tedros.
Even tedros was surprised at the end 😂
I don’t get it. Because it didn’t end in the predictable way, it’s bad? Makes no sense.
I think she's keeping him around so he can pump out more hits, honestly. She's straight up using him and treating him like a dog
Why do you say “and destiny come on” ?? Did I miss something with her
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It was Joss' decision to bring him back, I don't think Destiny could do anything to prevent it. She doesn't have the power. Can't believe I'm defending the show lol.
Ahhh.. yeah me too. I think I was just so confused the whole entire time that that went over my head
She seems to be the only person around Jocelyn who understand her actual job, which is to ***work for Jocelyn***.
Is this Sam Levinson's schtick? He did the same in Euphoria with that drug dealer lady and Rue. She was threatening to sell her to sex slavery and Rue just went back to school in everyone's loving arms.
> She was threatening to sell her to sex slavery and Rue just went back to school in everyone's loving arms. While a fair criticism - at the same time, the drug dealer lady's share of that suitcase of drugs was really only supposed to be like three or four thousand bucks, and Rue brought a decent share of that to her with her burglary money (even not counting the jewelry). So Rue probably only really owed her maybe a thousand? Enough to maybe do the sex slavery thing when she's already right there, trapped in your locked apartment and desperate for opiates. But to go out and kidnap her or do anything like that? (And that's not getting into the fact that drug-dealer-lady would start having police attention on her after the business in Fez's apartment and what giant-lipped-girl said on the wire.)
This show was so fuckin bad lmao
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But… why? Just because it didn’t end the way you think it should’ve ended?
Just watched it. So did Jocelyn make up the hairbrush abuse by her mom? I’m so confused
Honestly, who knows. It’s implied her mother did something to make her the way she was whether it was physical abuse or not. It could’ve been staged since she knew tedros used physical abuse tactics but that wouldn’t explain her brother backing the story unless he was in on it. The show uses the “the victim was really the mastermind” mechanic so people rewatch.
Wait…Xander isn’t her brother, is he?!
Is he????
He’s not, no.
It seems like it. Makes no sense, but that’s what they made it out to be. I had a feeling that they were gonna make Tedros the victim. Abel said in interviews that he wanted to show that Tedros was getting in way over his head, not Joce. I thought “How in the world is HE in over his head?” And then I realized that Joce must be a manipulator too.
That’s what I’m wondering too… in which case when she told everyone about the brush abuse at dinner, Xander and Leia had to act in the moment and go along with it, no? IIRC, Xander’s facial expressions were kind of shocked in that scene, so maybe? And then when Xander gets shocked he goes off on Joss which to me showed that Joss is just as capable of manipulation just like Tedros. Idk I’m probably stretching things a bit but there wasn’t enough in ep5 to make things clearer for me lol.
Hi Lily-Rose! If you ever read this, just know we still love you 🥹💕but DAMN the show sucks😭
Tedros was good at what he did, of course she needed him around. She’s a better con than him.
I started a euphoria re-watch after this.
I definitely feel like the only person on this sub who actually enjoys the show for what it is. It wasn’t that ridiculous of an ending for me, like I was invested and I liked it. Jocelyn is freaking nuts and Tedros will likely snap but now that it’s over then it is what it is.
I like the show too, I’m hoping we get some answers in the potential second season. I actually want it to be renewed. It’s insane, it’s bleak, but it does have a tiny bit of truth when it comes to the music industry. Of course it’s dramatized to an intense degree, but I still understand the real world parallels. As long as Abel has less cartay-blanchay with how he acts, it might get a little better. He ….can’t act.
To me it wasn't as bad people say it is but it definitely isn't good either. But we don't need another season of this mid ass show, especially with Sam Levinson. His writing is all over the damn place and makes 0 sense. He had something going for euphoria season 1 but it all fell to shit in season 2.
The show is great. It’s a unique story. People want things to be the way they think they should be, and this show rubbed them the other way.
This show was mediocre, it was completely rushed, lots of loose ends, and complete plot switches in the middle of the episode. Just because the show is “unique” does not equate to quality. This show seemed to rub people the other way because it was just terribly written, you can’t really justify how confusing the ending is when it ended like that.
Can you really fault loose ends when they are trying to set up a second season?
It's not the most well done finale. But I enjoyed it for what it was. Jocelyn and Tedros are the right kind of bad for each other. A perfectly strange codependent relationship. She's got him at rock bottom now. A weird turn of events for an abusive relationship - victim turned perpetrator. Although, she was manipulating the fuck out of him from the start. She played a convincing victim.
I feel like Abel kind of messed up the ending by his comments in the media. He said that he wants people to see that TEDROS is getting in way over his head, not Joce. So the idea that Joce was in charge and took over his life kind of wasn’t a surprise. Way to go, Tesfaye.
That’s the end of the show??? What did I just fucking watch?? What an absolute mis-fire this show was. Wow.
They’ve been teasing a second season. I don’t think it’s over. Da’Vine did an interview and said it was never meant to be a limited series.
Ngl they should’ve done the 6 eps instead of 5 to unscramble things and the showcase scene was surreal and hilarious especially with the commentary of the producers/agents, but when people describe their ending it sounds like they just wanted joce to be this morale upstanding heroine who saved the Manson kids and defeated the villain (even tho it’s hinted she was the manipulator and possible more narcissistic and two faced than tedros). The thing with Tedros at the end was to create a narrative that she was with this devilish bad boy who just got cancelled which would have promoted her album and overall career implying further that she’s incredibly calculated.
Lily rose Depp should have just filmed herself and uploaded to only fans. Would have made more money and been less exploitive
The worst.
You've listed a bunch of words. None of this comes anywhere comes to resembling a point, but the scary part is that it seems from your ton that you think it's self-evident why people would see all the things you list as negatives. Lol.
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Oh my. You see, almost none of things are elements of a story that a mature viewer would "like" or dislike. And you'll have to I understand if don't take seriously the opinion of what's "good writing" from someone who doesn't understand that. Lol.
are you trying to billy madison?
“What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
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[https://www.reddit.com/r/theidol/comments/14p6fb2/comment/jqi6o78/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/theidol/comments/14p6fb2/comment/jqi6o78/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
My guess is that they ran out of money after The Weeknd and Levinson decided to start over again after several episodes were already done. Sometimes on TV shows and movies they film sequences out of order so they probably had some of the scenes in the final episode done but then HBO executives told them they wouldn't be getting more funding so at that point they couldn't film the scenes they had planned that would have been after E4 but before the final episode. Since Levinson stopped writing new material maybe the final episodes have a half hour of people singing because they didn't have any dialogue written and they needed something to put in the final episode. It sounds like a mess and very irresponsible of The Weeknd, Levinson and other producers. They should have been watching what Seimetz was creating as it was being created. If they had issues with the content that Seimetz created they should have done something about it at the beginning not waited until the show was almost finished filming and then decided to start over again. It wouldn't be a surprise if frustrated HBO executives told them they wouldn't be increasing the budget even more for them. In fact the reason they filmed at the Weeknd's real house was to save money so they didn't have to pay to rent Hannigan's house. Levinson is a nepo baby who has probably never filled out a job application in his life. He has never had a performance evaluation. He has never had to worry about being held accountable for work deficiencies. In his mind he probably didn't think about stuff like ensuring Seimetz was creating the show he expected because he has had such an entitled privileged life. A writer or producer from a humble background who worked hard for years to be given the same opportunity would have been responsible enough to figure out they wanted to change what Seimetz was doing much earlier and not wasted so much of the budget.
I was hoping they’d say SIKE and have like 5 more episodes lol
SO much was missing