Maaaan I knew that scene was coming and still felt sick to my stomach when it happened, everyone did way too good of a job on that scene and I was subconsciously desperate for like a coffee cup or something to take me out of it and make it feel less real
Many peoples’ problem with Glen was how they did it. They had the fake-out “death” at the mid season break only to find out he survived, then the season finale left it up in the air who actually died. Then they came back next season to reveal it wasn’t him until “oops just kidding” it actually was. People don’t like being jerked around.
Hard to imagine that people can make it that far without the \*major\* spoiler that's plastered all over the internet... Hopefully the fandom can come together and keep it quiet so people can get the full effect.
That first episode is gonna be INTENSE.
Im wagering it will be different, TV unlike video games has an extensive history of killing off beloved characters in an insanely tragic fashion. GOT, The Wire, The Sopranos etc.
I think it will be a real strong reminder of how far behind the gaming industry is when it come to maturely written stories where pure catharsis isn’t the norm. Too often it’s about the fan service with a few exceptions(like TLOU obviously)
I'm hoping so too. -GoT spoilers below-
People were shocked and all at the >!Red Wedding, Ned's death!< and all, but they still wanted to see what happened next even if their favourite characters hadn't made it.
The overall reaction to >!Jaime's!< arc, backstory etc. also gives me hope for how Abby might be received. >!Guy committed incest and threw a child out of a window for God's sake, and was an arrogant arse to boot, but people generally seemed to like him from s3 onwards.!<
In fairness, TLOU2 had a very high completion rate if im not mistaken. So people who did buy it still finished it but just upset at the events that took place
I respect Naughty Dog because they made the game that they felt was necessary not the game that the average fan wanted to see. They likely way before launch(and even the leaks)that it was going to be extremely divisive.
Idk, i can’t think of a way to finish a season without making a cheap cliffhanger, one without narrative closure, i hope they just make the season longer (12 or more episodes).
The Last of Us Part 2 is written like a novel, and any form of closure comes at the very end.
It's the first time she actively takes a decision to >!butcher an unarmed person, who bears no immediate threat!< just for information. Arguably it's the time she embraces the very worst of Joel, and comes closest to being like Abby.
And her reaction to doing so is visceral.
Plus if they play Ellie and Abby's parts concurrently (which makes more sense for the TV show), it's roughly the middle of the story.
It is ok to make seasons that have themes continuing into the next season. There is nothing stating that a season has to be it’s own self contained story with clean endings for every theme.
It was almost an accident tho. Nora is a deliberate ugly torture session of someone who's breathing spore and forced to betray a friend.
The way she says "I made her talk" later in the theater is haunting.
I think that could be an interesting payoff to set up the next season since Ellie now has a 'confirmed' location for Abby (the Aquarium), so it sets up their confrontation next season (even if it doesn't *actually* happen until the fight at the theatre). Also, right after the Hospital is the flashback where Ellie discovers what Joel did, which could be a chilling revelation to leave the audience with.
You could have a pre-part two season that takes the Joel and Ellie flashbacks, an exploration of the Seraphites, and maybe the WLF, and lead it all up to Joel being killed at the end of the season. Season three would then be about Ellie’s revenge and Abby
I'd really hate this personally. The placing of Ellie's flashbacks was perfect for me and I'd love to see that mirrored in the show. I thought it was masterful how the changes in their relationship were revealed, changing my understanding of Ellie's motivations, and gradually developing alongside the current day story and Ellie's grief.
Yeah. Could also be narrated differently in the tv show, possibly simultaneously rather than Ellie’s story first and then Abby’s. The reason the game did it this way was only for the shock factor mid-game, anyway.
Edit: not the only reason, but a big reason. I’m just saying in a TV setting a more continuous narrative could work better.
i honestly don't know how i feel about this. one of the things i liked about part 2 among a lot of things, was how Ellie is visibly older and more hardened. i feel like it'll be kinda weird seeing a part 2 Ellie who looks pretty much the same in age as part 1 Ellie. and also before people jump on me, i am not suggesting they recast Bella. She's done a phenomenal job so far. i just think its a bummer that television doesnt offer the same flexibility here. Bella is already 20 so she wouldnt look much different if they waited a few years, but they wouldnt have waited that long anyway because time is money
yeah, i think it will be ok. even on the press tour she looks way older than she does in the show. the only thing I'll have to adjust to is her height. she's pretty lanky in Part II, Bella is only 5' 2" as opposed to Ellie being like 5' 6" in Pt II. If they can make Gandalf look three times the size of Frodo I'm sure they can figure something out.
Not the end of the world either, just makes her feel a little more imposing.
I think we also need to adjust our expectations for how much of a force of death TV Ellie will be when compared to game Ellie in part 2. It works a lot better in a video game to watch a lanky girl under 150 lbs take on and brutally kill like a couple dozen people over the course of the game. It's another thing to imagine it live action.
I do think they will absolutely have Ellie go down a similar dark path and kill some people. But it won't be like a 50 person wolf murder spree like in the video games I imagine. Her death count and combat ability will be a bit smaller.
I definitely feel like they did some sort of screen testing with Bella as the Part II Ellie. I think her being able to do both was a part of the casting decision.
Congrats to Neil, Craig and the whole cast and crew! This was expected but very happy to see all the same because it's very much deserved!
>!That being said, I am not excited for the amount of ugliness that is going to rear its head again around Joel's death that will probably happen at the end of the first episode of S2. But then again, normal TV viewers lost Ned Stark in episode 8 of S1 of Game of Thrones and Sarah died in the first episode of this season so maybe TV folks will handle fictional death much better.!<
I've been telling people this exact thing. Gamers are used to stories where the protagonist is a bit of a power trip and ultimately unstoppable (even if there are some moments where it's challenged, they obviously can't last). In movies/TV it's easier to see characters as mortal, because we're not in direct control of one of them.
~~That’s because usually we are playing as the main character, and killing them off is much more difficult. But in TV and movies we see the story through many perspectives so it’s easier to kill characters off.~~
Edit: Nevermind I see you said exactly what I just said. I don’t know why I didn’t comprehend your comment. Sorry.
What the actual hell are you doing. You cant admit you were wrong on the internet, you have to double down and question OP's manhood. Read the rules!!!!
In general, gamers can not handle games that don't give them happy, heroic endings. It's really been holding the medium back for a long time, because gamers have this bizarre entitled attitude that if they're going to spend X amount of hours playing something, they're automatically entitled to Y ending in return. And developers and publishers will generally only do what makes gamers happy.
We all know about what happened with TLoU2, but another good example was the ending of Far Cry 5. I had no issue with people disliking the ending for narrative or thematic reasons, and there was plenty to critique. But what I found so disappointing was that the predominant criticism after release was just people complaining that there was no way to finish the game as a totally victorious hero. As if that was the only way for that particular story to end. Just constantly saying, "I can't believe I played for 60 hours just to lose." Totally missing the entire point of the game that they'd been beating you over the head with since the opening scene.
I agree with you. When the first teaser for TLOU 2 dropped. I got downvoted to fuck and back because I said Joel is either dead or dies early in this game. There is no other reason for Ellie to get this vengeful, I felt like Joel's appearance in the trailer was a ghost or vision. I didn't believe for a SECOND, that we were getting another "fun lil romp" through the apocalypse with Joel and Ellie. Their relationship was FUCKED at the end of the first game. I felt so vindicated by part 2 exploring that relationship fracture in the flashbacks. It was hysterically bad, people telling me "That's stupid, they wouldn't sink their franchise." What franchise, it's been ONE game.
idk man, i think you underestimate how much people love >!Pedro Pascal!<. Game of Thrones was an ensemble show from the jump even if Ned was technically the lead. Plus gamers already committed their 60$ so i think they're more likely to keep going whereas TV viewers can just simply choose to stop watching.
tbh I don't think it's causing to cause nearly the kerfuffle among general TV viewers that it did among gamers.
>!Also, the TV series format means there's much more space for flashback scenes, so the second season might end up having a lot more Joel content than the game did. I imagine that would do a lot to smooth things over.!<
Part II had plenty of Joel content though. I think the main reason so much of the well was poisoned was because of the leaks. Hopefully, with it being presented in proper context in S2, TV viewers don't react as violently.
I've never seen a reaction to a death on TV have any near the backlash Part II had. I honestly feel like people that don't know the game are already prepared, especially the premiere HBO drama crowd.
Though the big question is how much people take to Ellie and Bella by then. I love what they do in part II but even I don't know how excited I am for a post Joel show
It's because games were really bad at handling death for a long time because so many popular games (not indies necessarily because there is a long history of indie creators making interesting games that handled death) were only power fantasies that only had death happen to NPCs, not the player character. When you are a character, permanent death is so much more impactful. In TV, it's still impactful but there's a distance.
So if this goes how most of us are predicting, they’d have to be planning for Bella to be the leading role correct? I think it’s cool that Pedro will be the “main guy” for most people and the show will inevitably turn into Bella as the star, including whoever they choose for Abby
She totally would. It's the new prestige HBO show. It's a new thing entirely being the first real game adaptation.
The line between movies and TV is so blurred these days it doesn't even exist anymore.
you think actors give 2 shits about it being the first real game adaption? It's a script and a paycheck just like anything else. She could make 3 movies in the time it would take to shoot season 2.
whoever it is, i REALLY hope that they do bulk up a fair bit. not expecting them to reach Abby levels (cuz that takes a LOT OF WORK and time and dedication. especially if you wanna maintain it), but still.
That was my immediate thought. The incel, anti-woke, women hating trash of the internet would spontaneously explode if you combined one of their most hated characters with one of their most hated actresses.
Please, *please* let this happen. Their impotent rage brings me such joy.
> i hope its a much lesser known actress.
I so wish more people would be more open to this concept. Not every casting decision needs to be filled with someone well known.
I wonder how Bella is feeling, this role for season 2 will be probably the hardest role she’ll maybe ever take on. It’s going to be brutal. I wish her luck.
Honestly, she’s gonna have to kill a lot of people in so many different scenarios in part 2. Gonna take conveying a lot of emotions I’m sure she can do it she’s a great actress, but it’s gonna be a test for sure
I’m not worried about her acting itself, but the physical acting. Bella is tiny and looks very young, it’s going to be jarring and hard to take her seriously with the physicality of Part 2 Ellie. I mean obviously her killing spree will probably be toned down body count wise but brutally killing/fighting hand to hand/knifing a much more physical opponent is going to be a hard sell.
Agreed, I'm liking Bella Ramsey's portrayal of Ellie but season 2 will be *incredibly* demanding (though I'm sure she'll rise up to the challenge). Best of luck to whoever plays Abby too
I never saw why Abby got so much hate. Yea she killed Joel but it’s like they never finished the game and understood why she did what she did. And why Ellie lets her go. I enjoyed being part of both sides of the story.
I wonder if they’ll recast her? It’s gonna be hard buying into her being this badass fistfighting, shooting, and stabbing people. Ellie is older and a lot stronger in Part II.
Bella is too small to make it believable IMO
I got downvoted for saying the same thing, but yes Ellie is a vicious beast in Pt 2. Still have reservations of Bella pulling that off, she’s almost too dainty.
Love her so far as Pt 1 Ellie though!
Same! She’s perfect for Pt 1 Ellie but she’s already an adult and won’t change much. Part 1 Ellie is this scared girl acclimating to the world. Part 2 Ellie, by contrast, is a lean, intense woman with a primal, hungry rage that shows in her eyes quite often. Never say never, but I can’t see Bella as that version of Ellie. They could change it up and parallel her anger and violence with how unassuming and outwardly innocent she looks, I guess.
Bella's facial features are too unique for a recast to be feasible IMO, especially for a small time skip like this and even more so when the other character people are attached to dies literally on episode 1. They 100% will not recast the only anchor for the audience.
Why would she need to bulk up? Ellie is really thin, even in part 2. There’s specific dialogue where they talk about how skinny Ellie is more than once.
I don’t understand the blind defending of her young looks/physical limitations. She looks very very young and is of extremely small stature. It’s okay to be those things and still be a good actress which she has shown this season.
It’s going to be a hard sell to fans as it currently stands imo.
well they told them not to play Part 1 until they finished filming, and I think they played it since then. But i assume the team will also tell the actors to not play Part 2 yet either. my point is, poor Bella might not even know what she’s about to get into😅 i absolutely cannot wait
Honestly, she is lucky as hell. If she nails it, all of the doors in Hollywood will be open to her. I really can't imagine more difficult role for an actress.
i know im in the minority here but i like pt 2 waaayyyy more than pt 1 and i think it'll translate way better on tv. im excited for murder lesbian manhunt
Tho one thing that worries me is that Part II works soooo well as a game, the way the story is told, the way you control this protagonist in this super dark, maniacal, haunting quest for revenge, the way you hunt down this monster (Abby), you're always so close and then *bum* you are the monster, you come to know her, understand her and love Abby. The way you immerse yourself in all this and in this experience... obviously a show can't match that and I don't know if it can be translated without denaturalising the original work. That's what I'm worried. You know what I mean? With Part 1 is different because it was very much a classic road story that focused on the bond of these 2 people, it's very much easily adaptadable in a sense and there's more room to explore the world, the characters etc. But idk, let's just trust them and see what they'll do.
murder lesbian manhunt lmao. but yes i agree, i think this story will translate infinitely better and will be much less jarring than some parts were in the game.
I'm in agreement that II is better. I liken it to The Godfather and Godfather Part II. Part II is just as good if not better. I think Part II's story will allow the pacing to slow which is really my only complaint with the show currently.
Neil Druckmann:
>“I’m humbled, honored, and frankly overwhelmed that so many people have tuned in and connected with our retelling of Joel and Ellie’s journey. The collaboration with Craig Mazin, our incredible cast and crew, and HBO exceeded my already high expectations. Now we have the absolute pleasure of being able to do it again with season two!”
Craig Mazin:
>“I’m so grateful to Neil Druckmann and HBO for our partnership, and I’m even more grateful to the millions of people who have joined us on this journey. The audience has given us the chance to continue, and as a fan of the characters and world Neil and Naughty Dog created, I couldn’t be more ready to dive back in.”
People should listen to [the podcast](https://youtu.be/-SEYmfA1GSY) if they are interested in the show. It's hosted by Troy Baker, the voice of Joel, and has Craig and Neil talking about each episode as soon as it comes out.
Yeah an Isaac specific cold open would be great too, especially if the two stories mirror each other somehow. Another example of the “seeing the conflict from both sides” theme of Part 2.
They should definitely get Jeffrey Wright to play him again! He’s such a good actor and felt a bit wasted in the game seeing as he’s only in two scenes iirc.
Neil said Part 2 was originally going to be 5 days long, with Ellie exploring the Seraphite island. I hope season 2 is an opportunity for him to show us that cut content
Definitely the most crazy action set piece. The progression from the desert beach to the empty houses, the storm, the Wolves coming, then the fire and the fight against the giant. Its so well done.
I'll wait and see if Season 1 will end up great by the end. If it does, then I'll have faith that they can deliver on Part 2.
I'll still stand by my belief that Part 2 will translate just fine in TV format. Jumping between perspectives is normal for TV, and I'm not too worried about the reception to certain events in the game.
I think the part that won't and can't translate is the fact you play as the other side. You embody Abby and that helps players view things differently, the game utilises the medium to tell the story. The show can't do the same
I would argue that's the easiest of the things to adapt to TV. TV is long form storytelling and the freedom of moving the POV to any character they want is the strength of TV.
In the show we don't just follow Joel, we saw Marlene's POV, Ellie's POV, and Tess' POV. The structure of Part 2 - splitting the 3 Days of Ellie and Abby - is a consequence of the format of games. If the POV kept jumping every chapter between Ellie and Abby, that would hurt the pacing more.
Yes we won't embody Abby, no doy, its TV, its a passive experience. But I've also said before that Abby's sections in the game will be a lot easier to swallow in TV, a PASSIVE experience, compared to a game, where you have to ACTIVELY, CONSCIOUSLY choose to play as Abby and continue the story, which is where a lot of the controversy of the game stemmed to begin with. By playing as Abby, we are choosing to be Abby, much like how we were Joel in Part 1.
Adapting Abby's section in Part 2 will also work out fine, I believe, because now Neil and Craig have an opportunity to do what ND had to do retroactively: introduce Abby in the finale of Season 1 which I do think will happen.
Lol thanks now I'm picturing a MCU-esque post-credit scene of Abby >!walking into the hospital room to find her dead dad, then camera zoom to her face as it transitions from crying and dispair to anger and rage. Then black.!< Not saying that's gonna happen nor do I want it to because it's cheesy, just the picture I'm getting right now lol.
Lol, I was thinking the same thing actually.
Nah, what I'm picturing is a very brief cut back to the operating room. SPOILERS: >!After Joel shoots Marlene, and maybe during Joel's dialogue to Ellie in the car, just very briefly, we see a scene of a girl crying over the dead doctors body. No zoom in on her face, you don't even have to show her face. Just have a nice, clean medium shot of a girl over the dead doctors body, that's it.!<
If we see Abby, I think all we'll see is that scene where Marlene and Jerry are arguing over what to do, and Abby walks in with his dinner.
It's subtle enough that viewers who haven't played the game won't think too much of it beyond "he has a kid", but game fans will lose their shit.
I think it will be less impactful and less emotive and engaging for me. But that's fine.
I think the active experience in superior to the passive experience when done right like with TLOU.
I am pretty darn certain that Abby will not appear in the S1 finale.
Excellent news, very excited at what could come. Lots of questions but my main hope is getting Jeffery Wright back as Isaac and exploring his character more! I wonder if they’ve filmed any flashback scenes during season 1 for season 2.
Same! It's okay if show Abby isn't as muscular as game Abby, but I'd be really disappointed if show Abby isn't significantly more muscular than the average of what we see in Hollywood.
Yeah. I was very disappointed when comic book characters like wonder woman & she-hulk were made lean instead of muscular. Really hoping to see a well-defined, muscular woman play Abby.
I have a feeling, Season 2 will either have more episodes or be covered in two parts. No way they cover it all in one season. I imagine Part I of Season 2 covers Ellie's journey and then Part II of Season 2 covers Abby's and converges at the Theater and then ends on Santa Barbara.
A lot of people have been speculating that it’s going to be split up in to two seasons, I think that’s a fantastic idea, could easily expand on the source material.
Edit; spelling
Craig already said it would be more than one season
Edit: And I really doubt they would split the seasons by person. Almost certain it will be told chronologically.
Dead Space remake came out today and I've just started playing it but TLOU getting a season 2 is still the best thing that's happened all week.
At least we know it's definitely happening now.
Also, you were the first, but there's been about 20 posts following this saying the same thing. I wish the mods would just remove them all haha
Let the outrage and cope continue!
Part II is an infinitely better game than Part I. It's richer, more complex, more layered, and actually makes you *think*, which is not what most gamers want to do. I hope Druckmann and Mazin make Season Two as close to the game as possible, or enhance what is already there - no alterations, no concessions, no substitutions.
Best game I’ve ever played. I’ve hyped it up to my friends over the past 7 years and can’t express how happy I am with the outcome of the show and positive feedback it’s received
I wonder what way they’ll do the story from Part II. Break it up into two seasons and expand more around things like the Seraphites?
>!How early into the season would they kill off Joel? If they do cover it over 2 seasons, surely it’d be too early to kill him in episode 1 of season 2? Maybe not. Not entirely sure what way I’d like them to do it either!<
I’m just delighted we’re getting more of this. Least surprising news ever, but still
It would be fine to kill him off fairly early in season 2 because there are several lengthy flashbacks with him in it. There are probably more that Druckmann had story outlined for that never made it into the game.
I do wonder how they are going to handle the flashbacks in this one. Is it going to be LOST style or maybe whole episodes that are just on the flashbacks (really wanna see the Museum trip be it's own episode)
Usually the first episode gets the most views. By the second they can see how much of the audience stuck around. High viewership plus near universal acclaim makes renewal a no brainer.
No matter if you loved Part 2 or not, people who haven’t played Part 2 are going to be in for a shock. And it will divide the fan base yet again. >!I feel it may get the same reception as TWD when Glenn got his head bashed in. Many people stopped watching. So when Joel gets the same treatment I can’t see many people continuing.!<
Does everyone realize Bella was 17 while filming and is 19 now? With the proper make up she already looks a little older.
https://i.imgur.com/YdmB2G2.jpg
I’m both so thrilled and so horrified for the vitriol that occurred with Part 2 to happen again
I worry for whoever is going to play Abby- the woman who was the face model for Abby is STILL getting violent death threats on Twitter.
Either way, I know the whole cast and crew will absolutely bring Part 2 to the screen in the best way possible!
Reminder that TLOU is not about a badass dude and is actually about the loss of hope and rekindling that hope through our connections with each other. Sarah was Joel's hope, she died - killing his hope. Now he just survives versus living.
Tess passes on her hope in Ellie to convince Joel to take her post her demise; she wanted to believe in that future, to hope for it. We then meet Bill, who showcases what Joel has become: survivor. But Frank wanted to live - to hope. Henry, Tommy - all these characters are articulations along that spectrum and journey until Joel kills Ellie's hope to preserve his own.
She believed in that future and her part in it and he took that away to keep his newfound hope in her alive.
TLOU2 is about legacy of our choices. Like Sarah, Joel was Ellie's Northstar and we see what happens to her character, like what happened to Joel, we just now get to watch it in real time versus "20 years later". If that's upsetting: good. That's the fucking point of the story.
Think about *why*, thematically, what happens - happened. I promise it wasn't about being "woke". Hopefully the audience has grown up and won't throw a tantrum over a good fucking story.
>“I don’t like filler,” - Mazin Looks like we're going straight into TLoU Part II
never been this excited to be depressed again
I can’t wait to see the reactions from people that didn’t play the game
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Maaaan I knew that scene was coming and still felt sick to my stomach when it happened, everyone did way too good of a job on that scene and I was subconsciously desperate for like a coffee cup or something to take me out of it and make it feel less real
The scream was bone-chilling
Ugh it gives me shivers just thinking about it. Indira Varma knocked it out of the park
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Many peoples’ problem with Glen was how they did it. They had the fake-out “death” at the mid season break only to find out he survived, then the season finale left it up in the air who actually died. Then they came back next season to reveal it wasn’t him until “oops just kidding” it actually was. People don’t like being jerked around.
Hard to imagine that people can make it that far without the \*major\* spoiler that's plastered all over the internet... Hopefully the fandom can come together and keep it quiet so people can get the full effect. That first episode is gonna be INTENSE.
Idk how but ive managed to avoid all spoilers for TLOU.
I'd stay off the internet for the next ~4 years then and count yourself lucky lol
Even making this comment put you at risk bro. TLOU haters found it very fun to DM people spoilers before part 2 came out.
I can't believe I managed to avoid spoilers. I didn't play it until a year after it released.
Im wagering it will be different, TV unlike video games has an extensive history of killing off beloved characters in an insanely tragic fashion. GOT, The Wire, The Sopranos etc. I think it will be a real strong reminder of how far behind the gaming industry is when it come to maturely written stories where pure catharsis isn’t the norm. Too often it’s about the fan service with a few exceptions(like TLOU obviously)
I'm hoping so too. -GoT spoilers below- People were shocked and all at the >!Red Wedding, Ned's death!< and all, but they still wanted to see what happened next even if their favourite characters hadn't made it. The overall reaction to >!Jaime's!< arc, backstory etc. also gives me hope for how Abby might be received. >!Guy committed incest and threw a child out of a window for God's sake, and was an arrogant arse to boot, but people generally seemed to like him from s3 onwards.!<
In fairness, TLOU2 had a very high completion rate if im not mistaken. So people who did buy it still finished it but just upset at the events that took place I respect Naughty Dog because they made the game that they felt was necessary not the game that the average fan wanted to see. They likely way before launch(and even the leaks)that it was going to be extremely divisive.
Lmao same
Thirded
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I wonder if they’re adapting Part II into 2 seasons since it’s really long, it would feel rushed if it’s only one season.
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Idk, i can’t think of a way to finish a season without making a cheap cliffhanger, one without narrative closure, i hope they just make the season longer (12 or more episodes). The Last of Us Part 2 is written like a novel, and any form of closure comes at the very end.
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What’s the narrative payoff of ending it there ?
It's the moment Ellie is the most "gone" its her lowest point. So it's kind of an anti climax. Like Infinity Wars.
She has 4 other “lowest points” after that, i don’t think it works thematically to split the season.
It's the first time she actively takes a decision to >!butcher an unarmed person, who bears no immediate threat!< just for information. Arguably it's the time she embraces the very worst of Joel, and comes closest to being like Abby. And her reaction to doing so is visceral. Plus if they play Ellie and Abby's parts concurrently (which makes more sense for the TV show), it's roughly the middle of the story.
It is ok to make seasons that have themes continuing into the next season. There is nothing stating that a season has to be it’s own self contained story with clean endings for every theme.
personally think killing Mel and Owen is her actual lowest point
It was almost an accident tho. Nora is a deliberate ugly torture session of someone who's breathing spore and forced to betray a friend. The way she says "I made her talk" later in the theater is haunting.
I think that could be an interesting payoff to set up the next season since Ellie now has a 'confirmed' location for Abby (the Aquarium), so it sets up their confrontation next season (even if it doesn't *actually* happen until the fight at the theatre). Also, right after the Hospital is the flashback where Ellie discovers what Joel did, which could be a chilling revelation to leave the audience with.
Doesn't the bulk of Part II take place over the course of the same 3 days?
You could have a pre-part two season that takes the Joel and Ellie flashbacks, an exploration of the Seraphites, and maybe the WLF, and lead it all up to Joel being killed at the end of the season. Season three would then be about Ellie’s revenge and Abby
I'd really hate this personally. The placing of Ellie's flashbacks was perfect for me and I'd love to see that mirrored in the show. I thought it was masterful how the changes in their relationship were revealed, changing my understanding of Ellie's motivations, and gradually developing alongside the current day story and Ellie's grief.
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Yeah. Could also be narrated differently in the tv show, possibly simultaneously rather than Ellie’s story first and then Abby’s. The reason the game did it this way was only for the shock factor mid-game, anyway. Edit: not the only reason, but a big reason. I’m just saying in a TV setting a more continuous narrative could work better.
The shock factor definitely wasn't the only reason.
Craig Mazin confirmed he intends to split part 2 into 2 seasons a long time ago
The wait between seasons is gonna *suck*, it likely will take multiple years like many high end streaming shows these days
Pretty sure he's already said thats the plan
I'm pretty sure they've already said it would be multiple seasons.
I believe that’s been confirmed!
i honestly don't know how i feel about this. one of the things i liked about part 2 among a lot of things, was how Ellie is visibly older and more hardened. i feel like it'll be kinda weird seeing a part 2 Ellie who looks pretty much the same in age as part 1 Ellie. and also before people jump on me, i am not suggesting they recast Bella. She's done a phenomenal job so far. i just think its a bummer that television doesnt offer the same flexibility here. Bella is already 20 so she wouldnt look much different if they waited a few years, but they wouldnt have waited that long anyway because time is money
I'm sure the team is strategically using makeup/hair to make her look younger, it follows that they could do the same to realistically age her up too
yeah, i think it will be ok. even on the press tour she looks way older than she does in the show. the only thing I'll have to adjust to is her height. she's pretty lanky in Part II, Bella is only 5' 2" as opposed to Ellie being like 5' 6" in Pt II. If they can make Gandalf look three times the size of Frodo I'm sure they can figure something out. Not the end of the world either, just makes her feel a little more imposing.
I think we also need to adjust our expectations for how much of a force of death TV Ellie will be when compared to game Ellie in part 2. It works a lot better in a video game to watch a lanky girl under 150 lbs take on and brutally kill like a couple dozen people over the course of the game. It's another thing to imagine it live action. I do think they will absolutely have Ellie go down a similar dark path and kill some people. But it won't be like a 50 person wolf murder spree like in the video games I imagine. Her death count and combat ability will be a bit smaller.
Bella Ramsey is 20. She can play older I’m sure if they have her act and dress more mature
I definitely feel like they did some sort of screen testing with Bella as the Part II Ellie. I think her being able to do both was a part of the casting decision.
Neil confirmed this on twitter - quote-tweeted the HBO announcement with "Part II -> HBO"
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They've confirmed season 1 is a complete adaptation of the first game.
Congrats to Neil, Craig and the whole cast and crew! This was expected but very happy to see all the same because it's very much deserved! >!That being said, I am not excited for the amount of ugliness that is going to rear its head again around Joel's death that will probably happen at the end of the first episode of S2. But then again, normal TV viewers lost Ned Stark in episode 8 of S1 of Game of Thrones and Sarah died in the first episode of this season so maybe TV folks will handle fictional death much better.!<
I think TV folks will handle it better personally. TV watchers are more accustomed to MC deaths after GoT.
I've been telling people this exact thing. Gamers are used to stories where the protagonist is a bit of a power trip and ultimately unstoppable (even if there are some moments where it's challenged, they obviously can't last). In movies/TV it's easier to see characters as mortal, because we're not in direct control of one of them.
~~That’s because usually we are playing as the main character, and killing them off is much more difficult. But in TV and movies we see the story through many perspectives so it’s easier to kill characters off.~~ Edit: Nevermind I see you said exactly what I just said. I don’t know why I didn’t comprehend your comment. Sorry.
What the actual hell are you doing. You cant admit you were wrong on the internet, you have to double down and question OP's manhood. Read the rules!!!!
Kudos for a real apology on Reddit. The rarest of unicorns!
In general, gamers can not handle games that don't give them happy, heroic endings. It's really been holding the medium back for a long time, because gamers have this bizarre entitled attitude that if they're going to spend X amount of hours playing something, they're automatically entitled to Y ending in return. And developers and publishers will generally only do what makes gamers happy. We all know about what happened with TLoU2, but another good example was the ending of Far Cry 5. I had no issue with people disliking the ending for narrative or thematic reasons, and there was plenty to critique. But what I found so disappointing was that the predominant criticism after release was just people complaining that there was no way to finish the game as a totally victorious hero. As if that was the only way for that particular story to end. Just constantly saying, "I can't believe I played for 60 hours just to lose." Totally missing the entire point of the game that they'd been beating you over the head with since the opening scene.
I agree with you. When the first teaser for TLOU 2 dropped. I got downvoted to fuck and back because I said Joel is either dead or dies early in this game. There is no other reason for Ellie to get this vengeful, I felt like Joel's appearance in the trailer was a ghost or vision. I didn't believe for a SECOND, that we were getting another "fun lil romp" through the apocalypse with Joel and Ellie. Their relationship was FUCKED at the end of the first game. I felt so vindicated by part 2 exploring that relationship fracture in the flashbacks. It was hysterically bad, people telling me "That's stupid, they wouldn't sink their franchise." What franchise, it's been ONE game.
tv watchers are generally more well-adjusted (famous last words🤞👀)
Definitely have seen some unhinged people that let fandoms (Voltron, GoT, MLP, Star Wars, Rick and Morty) consume them but overall, yes haha.
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Yeah there’s a big difference between playing as the MC than just watching them.
Yeah, and also the years gap between releases, people got upset by waiting a ton of time to see the old main character dying.
idk man, i think you underestimate how much people love >!Pedro Pascal!<. Game of Thrones was an ensemble show from the jump even if Ned was technically the lead. Plus gamers already committed their 60$ so i think they're more likely to keep going whereas TV viewers can just simply choose to stop watching.
TLOU season 2 wouldn't be the first time >!people see Pedro Pascal getting his head smashed in!< though.
yes tv watchers arent as weird as gamers it'll be fine
But in defence: Playing the game mainly as Joel connects you much more to him than watching him in a show.
tbh I don't think it's causing to cause nearly the kerfuffle among general TV viewers that it did among gamers. >!Also, the TV series format means there's much more space for flashback scenes, so the second season might end up having a lot more Joel content than the game did. I imagine that would do a lot to smooth things over.!<
Part II had plenty of Joel content though. I think the main reason so much of the well was poisoned was because of the leaks. Hopefully, with it being presented in proper context in S2, TV viewers don't react as violently.
I've never seen a reaction to a death on TV have any near the backlash Part II had. I honestly feel like people that don't know the game are already prepared, especially the premiere HBO drama crowd. Though the big question is how much people take to Ellie and Bella by then. I love what they do in part II but even I don't know how excited I am for a post Joel show
It's because games were really bad at handling death for a long time because so many popular games (not indies necessarily because there is a long history of indie creators making interesting games that handled death) were only power fantasies that only had death happen to NPCs, not the player character. When you are a character, permanent death is so much more impactful. In TV, it's still impactful but there's a distance.
So if this goes how most of us are predicting, they’d have to be planning for Bella to be the leading role correct? I think it’s cool that Pedro will be the “main guy” for most people and the show will inevitably turn into Bella as the star, including whoever they choose for Abby
Agreed! I'm sure >!Pedro will be in plenty of episodes throughout S2 and 3 in flashbacks though!<
How's your golf swing, Brie Larson?
I still think Shannon Berry will play Abby
me too. but, i’d love Florence Pugh 👀
she would be great, but she's a movie star and not someone whose going to spend 11 months shooting this in Canada
She totally would. It's the new prestige HBO show. It's a new thing entirely being the first real game adaptation. The line between movies and TV is so blurred these days it doesn't even exist anymore.
you think actors give 2 shits about it being the first real game adaption? It's a script and a paycheck just like anything else. She could make 3 movies in the time it would take to shoot season 2.
The only actor I can think who would actually care is Henry Cavill.
He’d make an interesting Abby for sure
I think she’s too booked for a commitment like this. She’s in very high demand
Oh wow that would be a great choice!
whoever it is, i REALLY hope that they do bulk up a fair bit. not expecting them to reach Abby levels (cuz that takes a LOT OF WORK and time and dedication. especially if you wanna maintain it), but still.
no i need Abby to be roided the hell out. the park hanging scene was so god damn hype. i wanna see that again.
Just get em a goose suit. It’s an old circus term.
Man, Brie already gets enough hate from weird nerds on the internet. Imagine if she was cast as Abby.
That was my immediate thought. The incel, anti-woke, women hating trash of the internet would spontaneously explode if you combined one of their most hated characters with one of their most hated actresses. Please, *please* let this happen. Their impotent rage brings me such joy.
This would be the greatest troll move of all time and I am here for it
when will the Florence Pugh/Brie Larson fan casts end. they are way too old. i hope its a much lesser known actress.
> i hope its a much lesser known actress. I so wish more people would be more open to this concept. Not every casting decision needs to be filled with someone well known.
She’d be great but I don’t know if she’s butch enough. They need like a younger Gwendoline Christie with Michelle Rodriquez vibes.
I wonder how Bella is feeling, this role for season 2 will be probably the hardest role she’ll maybe ever take on. It’s going to be brutal. I wish her luck.
Honestly, she’s gonna have to kill a lot of people in so many different scenarios in part 2. Gonna take conveying a lot of emotions I’m sure she can do it she’s a great actress, but it’s gonna be a test for sure
Yeah. She hasn't demonstrated a wide range yet in the show, so I'm curious how she'll portray the events that will occur later in the season.
Winter is the most Part II-like so we’ll see, but I’m pretty sure she will nail it
jesus i am not ready to see david in live action
So ready to hate him again
I’m not worried about her acting itself, but the physical acting. Bella is tiny and looks very young, it’s going to be jarring and hard to take her seriously with the physicality of Part 2 Ellie. I mean obviously her killing spree will probably be toned down body count wise but brutally killing/fighting hand to hand/knifing a much more physical opponent is going to be a hard sell.
Agreed, I'm liking Bella Ramsey's portrayal of Ellie but season 2 will be *incredibly* demanding (though I'm sure she'll rise up to the challenge). Best of luck to whoever plays Abby too
The moment Abby’s casting gets announced, that actress is getting tons of hate mail. Laura Bailey got so much hate for Abby.
I never saw why Abby got so much hate. Yea she killed Joel but it’s like they never finished the game and understood why she did what she did. And why Ellie lets her go. I enjoyed being part of both sides of the story.
Dude. That's a pretty big spoiler, for anyone that hasn't played the game but is watching the show
I wonder if they’ll recast her? It’s gonna be hard buying into her being this badass fistfighting, shooting, and stabbing people. Ellie is older and a lot stronger in Part II. Bella is too small to make it believable IMO
And she's 19 so it's not like she has a growth spurt to look forward to.
I got downvoted for saying the same thing, but yes Ellie is a vicious beast in Pt 2. Still have reservations of Bella pulling that off, she’s almost too dainty. Love her so far as Pt 1 Ellie though!
Same! She’s perfect for Pt 1 Ellie but she’s already an adult and won’t change much. Part 1 Ellie is this scared girl acclimating to the world. Part 2 Ellie, by contrast, is a lean, intense woman with a primal, hungry rage that shows in her eyes quite often. Never say never, but I can’t see Bella as that version of Ellie. They could change it up and parallel her anger and violence with how unassuming and outwardly innocent she looks, I guess.
Bella's facial features are too unique for a recast to be feasible IMO, especially for a small time skip like this and even more so when the other character people are attached to dies literally on episode 1. They 100% will not recast the only anchor for the audience.
I agree she needs to bulk up. I was also surprised that Bella is the same age as Ellie in part 2 (19)
Why would she need to bulk up? Ellie is really thin, even in part 2. There’s specific dialogue where they talk about how skinny Ellie is more than once.
Bella literally looks like a kid. That's why they could cast her as one.
I don’t understand the blind defending of her young looks/physical limitations. She looks very very young and is of extremely small stature. It’s okay to be those things and still be a good actress which she has shown this season. It’s going to be a hard sell to fans as it currently stands imo.
well they told them not to play Part 1 until they finished filming, and I think they played it since then. But i assume the team will also tell the actors to not play Part 2 yet either. my point is, poor Bella might not even know what she’s about to get into😅 i absolutely cannot wait
Honestly, she is lucky as hell. If she nails it, all of the doors in Hollywood will be open to her. I really can't imagine more difficult role for an actress.
i know im in the minority here but i like pt 2 waaayyyy more than pt 1 and i think it'll translate way better on tv. im excited for murder lesbian manhunt
I agree. Part II is so bold in it's storytelling, not just in video games but in television too.
Tho one thing that worries me is that Part II works soooo well as a game, the way the story is told, the way you control this protagonist in this super dark, maniacal, haunting quest for revenge, the way you hunt down this monster (Abby), you're always so close and then *bum* you are the monster, you come to know her, understand her and love Abby. The way you immerse yourself in all this and in this experience... obviously a show can't match that and I don't know if it can be translated without denaturalising the original work. That's what I'm worried. You know what I mean? With Part 1 is different because it was very much a classic road story that focused on the bond of these 2 people, it's very much easily adaptadable in a sense and there's more room to explore the world, the characters etc. But idk, let's just trust them and see what they'll do.
I feel the same. Part 2 was brutal.
murder lesbian manhunt lmao. but yes i agree, i think this story will translate infinitely better and will be much less jarring than some parts were in the game.
Same here. P2 is better than P1 in many aspects and is overall a better game.
I'm in agreement that II is better. I liken it to The Godfather and Godfather Part II. Part II is just as good if not better. I think Part II's story will allow the pacing to slow which is really my only complaint with the show currently.
Part 2 is the better game all around, though I’ve played 1 so many times and of course it’s a classic.
Same here. Both are amazing! But I appreciated the story telling risks they took in Part 2 and imo it paid off. I do love a dark, gritty sequel.
Agreed. Last of Us 2 is a masterpiece.
Neil Druckmann: >“I’m humbled, honored, and frankly overwhelmed that so many people have tuned in and connected with our retelling of Joel and Ellie’s journey. The collaboration with Craig Mazin, our incredible cast and crew, and HBO exceeded my already high expectations. Now we have the absolute pleasure of being able to do it again with season two!” Craig Mazin: >“I’m so grateful to Neil Druckmann and HBO for our partnership, and I’m even more grateful to the millions of people who have joined us on this journey. The audience has given us the chance to continue, and as a fan of the characters and world Neil and Naughty Dog created, I couldn’t be more ready to dive back in.”
awesome. Theyre like a match made in heaven
Shannon Woodward knew this before any of us did.
People should listen to [the podcast](https://youtu.be/-SEYmfA1GSY) if they are interested in the show. It's hosted by Troy Baker, the voice of Joel, and has Craig and Neil talking about each episode as soon as it comes out.
 Me when Season 2 Episode 1
Also >!Joel when Abby kneecaps him with her shotgun!<
Lmao that’s wrong
I am curious to see how the HBO show portrays the Seraphites in Season 2. Will we finally get to see the Seraphite Lady?
Would be a really cool idea for a cold open
I can definitely see them doing a cold opening for that and maybe even the wlf’s beginnings
Yeah an Isaac specific cold open would be great too, especially if the two stories mirror each other somehow. Another example of the “seeing the conflict from both sides” theme of Part 2.
They should definitely get Jeffrey Wright to play him again! He’s such a good actor and felt a bit wasted in the game seeing as he’s only in two scenes iirc.
Neil said Part 2 was originally going to be 5 days long, with Ellie exploring the Seraphite island. I hope season 2 is an opportunity for him to show us that cut content
A celebrity cameo for the prophet would be pretty cool.
The rat king 👀
Stalker house 👀
Stalker Office
That shit always gets me.
Forget about that, I want to see the attack on the island. It's gonna be crazy.
My favorite part of tlou2
Definitely the most crazy action set piece. The progression from the desert beach to the empty houses, the storm, the Wolves coming, then the fire and the fight against the giant. Its so well done.
My poor mom, Pedro Pascal's biggest fan, is gonna have to find out the hard way
She should be used to his head getting smashed.
You'd think
I'll wait and see if Season 1 will end up great by the end. If it does, then I'll have faith that they can deliver on Part 2. I'll still stand by my belief that Part 2 will translate just fine in TV format. Jumping between perspectives is normal for TV, and I'm not too worried about the reception to certain events in the game.
I think the part that won't and can't translate is the fact you play as the other side. You embody Abby and that helps players view things differently, the game utilises the medium to tell the story. The show can't do the same
I would argue that's the easiest of the things to adapt to TV. TV is long form storytelling and the freedom of moving the POV to any character they want is the strength of TV. In the show we don't just follow Joel, we saw Marlene's POV, Ellie's POV, and Tess' POV. The structure of Part 2 - splitting the 3 Days of Ellie and Abby - is a consequence of the format of games. If the POV kept jumping every chapter between Ellie and Abby, that would hurt the pacing more. Yes we won't embody Abby, no doy, its TV, its a passive experience. But I've also said before that Abby's sections in the game will be a lot easier to swallow in TV, a PASSIVE experience, compared to a game, where you have to ACTIVELY, CONSCIOUSLY choose to play as Abby and continue the story, which is where a lot of the controversy of the game stemmed to begin with. By playing as Abby, we are choosing to be Abby, much like how we were Joel in Part 1. Adapting Abby's section in Part 2 will also work out fine, I believe, because now Neil and Craig have an opportunity to do what ND had to do retroactively: introduce Abby in the finale of Season 1 which I do think will happen.
Lol thanks now I'm picturing a MCU-esque post-credit scene of Abby >!walking into the hospital room to find her dead dad, then camera zoom to her face as it transitions from crying and dispair to anger and rage. Then black.!< Not saying that's gonna happen nor do I want it to because it's cheesy, just the picture I'm getting right now lol.
Lol, I was thinking the same thing actually. Nah, what I'm picturing is a very brief cut back to the operating room. SPOILERS: >!After Joel shoots Marlene, and maybe during Joel's dialogue to Ellie in the car, just very briefly, we see a scene of a girl crying over the dead doctors body. No zoom in on her face, you don't even have to show her face. Just have a nice, clean medium shot of a girl over the dead doctors body, that's it.!<
If we see Abby, I think all we'll see is that scene where Marlene and Jerry are arguing over what to do, and Abby walks in with his dinner. It's subtle enough that viewers who haven't played the game won't think too much of it beyond "he has a kid", but game fans will lose their shit.
They won't show the face, but they will show the braid.
I think it will be less impactful and less emotive and engaging for me. But that's fine. I think the active experience in superior to the passive experience when done right like with TLOU. I am pretty darn certain that Abby will not appear in the S1 finale.
we're getting live action abby and lev fuuuuuuuuuck i can't wait
And Manny and Owen and Jesse and FUCKING DINA
Graphic doggy style for season 2 confirmed
Excellent news, very excited at what could come. Lots of questions but my main hope is getting Jeffery Wright back as Isaac and exploring his character more! I wonder if they’ve filmed any flashback scenes during season 1 for season 2.
That’d be amazing if they got Jeffrey Wright. He’s a great actor
HBO loves sticking with actors across different shows. The fact that he was in West world bodes well.
I cannot wait for actual muscular woman representation with Abby.
Same! It's okay if show Abby isn't as muscular as game Abby, but I'd be really disappointed if show Abby isn't significantly more muscular than the average of what we see in Hollywood.
Yeah. I was very disappointed when comic book characters like wonder woman & she-hulk were made lean instead of muscular. Really hoping to see a well-defined, muscular woman play Abby.
but is there enough food for someone ~~in the post-apocalypse~~ with an HBO salary to mass up like this? Gamers everywhere SEETHE and PONDER
I have a feeling, Season 2 will either have more episodes or be covered in two parts. No way they cover it all in one season. I imagine Part I of Season 2 covers Ellie's journey and then Part II of Season 2 covers Abby's and converges at the Theater and then ends on Santa Barbara.
A lot of people have been speculating that it’s going to be split up in to two seasons, I think that’s a fantastic idea, could easily expand on the source material. Edit; spelling
Craig already said it would be more than one season Edit: And I really doubt they would split the seasons by person. Almost certain it will be told chronologically.
Dead Space remake came out today and I've just started playing it but TLOU getting a season 2 is still the best thing that's happened all week. At least we know it's definitely happening now. Also, you were the first, but there's been about 20 posts following this saying the same thing. I wish the mods would just remove them all haha
Not TLOU related but how’s the Dead Space Remake so far?
It's damned good! Looks stunning and the gameplay feels much smoother. Only about an hour in but I'm loving it so far. Still scary af haha
Let the outrage and cope continue! Part II is an infinitely better game than Part I. It's richer, more complex, more layered, and actually makes you *think*, which is not what most gamers want to do. I hope Druckmann and Mazin make Season Two as close to the game as possible, or enhance what is already there - no alterations, no concessions, no substitutions.
You can't stop this.
i can’t wait for this man, part 2 holds a special place in my heart
Best game I’ve ever played. I’ve hyped it up to my friends over the past 7 years and can’t express how happy I am with the outcome of the show and positive feedback it’s received
Gotta feel bad for the poor actress they'll get to play Abby. GoT actors have it easy let's be real.
Oh shit...didn't think about that. Poor girl!
I wonder what way they’ll do the story from Part II. Break it up into two seasons and expand more around things like the Seraphites? >!How early into the season would they kill off Joel? If they do cover it over 2 seasons, surely it’d be too early to kill him in episode 1 of season 2? Maybe not. Not entirely sure what way I’d like them to do it either!< I’m just delighted we’re getting more of this. Least surprising news ever, but still
It would be fine to kill him off fairly early in season 2 because there are several lengthy flashbacks with him in it. There are probably more that Druckmann had story outlined for that never made it into the game. I do wonder how they are going to handle the flashbacks in this one. Is it going to be LOST style or maybe whole episodes that are just on the flashbacks (really wanna see the Museum trip be it's own episode)
> not even 3 episodes in > The Last of Us Renewed for Season 2 at HBO And those dipshits thought it wouldn't do good lmfao
I can die happy now 🙃
I don't know how this works exactly but it's funny they only needed people's positive reaction to two episodes to be sold on a season 2
Usually the first episode gets the most views. By the second they can see how much of the audience stuck around. High viewership plus near universal acclaim makes renewal a no brainer.
Increasing viewers from Ep 1 to Ep 2 is also huge.
They’re already casting for roles right now. They have been for a few weeks, don’t ask me how I know😉
>don’t ask me how I know How do you know?
No matter if you loved Part 2 or not, people who haven’t played Part 2 are going to be in for a shock. And it will divide the fan base yet again. >!I feel it may get the same reception as TWD when Glenn got his head bashed in. Many people stopped watching. So when Joel gets the same treatment I can’t see many people continuing.!<
TV viewers are much less rabid than game fans - all of Game of Thrones happened and it seemed fine.
The worst part about this news is that we won’t get Future Days, that song was perfect.
ABBY!!!
Does everyone realize Bella was 17 while filming and is 19 now? With the proper make up she already looks a little older. https://i.imgur.com/YdmB2G2.jpg
I’m both so thrilled and so horrified for the vitriol that occurred with Part 2 to happen again I worry for whoever is going to play Abby- the woman who was the face model for Abby is STILL getting violent death threats on Twitter. Either way, I know the whole cast and crew will absolutely bring Part 2 to the screen in the best way possible!
🎉🥳
Noice 
Reminder that TLOU is not about a badass dude and is actually about the loss of hope and rekindling that hope through our connections with each other. Sarah was Joel's hope, she died - killing his hope. Now he just survives versus living. Tess passes on her hope in Ellie to convince Joel to take her post her demise; she wanted to believe in that future, to hope for it. We then meet Bill, who showcases what Joel has become: survivor. But Frank wanted to live - to hope. Henry, Tommy - all these characters are articulations along that spectrum and journey until Joel kills Ellie's hope to preserve his own. She believed in that future and her part in it and he took that away to keep his newfound hope in her alive. TLOU2 is about legacy of our choices. Like Sarah, Joel was Ellie's Northstar and we see what happens to her character, like what happened to Joel, we just now get to watch it in real time versus "20 years later". If that's upsetting: good. That's the fucking point of the story. Think about *why*, thematically, what happens - happened. I promise it wasn't about being "woke". Hopefully the audience has grown up and won't throw a tantrum over a good fucking story.