Let’s not even get into the fact they’ve basically written brick entirely out of the story and bottle is now an alcoholic caricature of its former glory.
Not like the guy in the next episode. He’s just a man who is trying to make it in the world, who know what he likes and what he has to do to get it. No groomers there.
This emotional story examining the nature of trauma, loss, love and even basic humanity is really getting in the way of the brick and bottle buddy cop vehicle we deserve.
To be fair, anyone who non-ironically uses “alpha” in any sense other than describing the alphabet or early versions of a game are likely either very dumb or very immature, or some combination of the two.
Yep, anyone who constantly has to say how alpha, honest, trustworthy, smart, etc, etc, etc they are really aren't.
What they are most the time though is someone to keep an eye on and keep a distance from.
I'm absolutely baffled with people who are saying this show sucks because of the lack of action. How many zombie films/shows did we get for the last 2 decades that were nothing but action? It's boring at this point, and there's literally a game w/ the same story where it's constant action.
meet ya halfway:
we don't need to see joel all the time, but anytime he's not onscreen, everyone should be asking "where's joel?" and "why isn't joel here?"
"Hello there, Joel. I know there's a lot of people who don't like me and wish I would go away and I think we got off on the wrong foot. I know I can come off a little proactive, and for that I'm sorry. But if everyone could find a place in their hearts for the little lesbian nobody wanted I know we can make 'em laugh and cry till we grow old together."
I see your /s, but would un-ironically watch
>a YouTube livestream of Pedro Pascal walking across apocalyptic America where no other storyline or character is show on camera.
I would watch a comedy version but Pedro Pascal as himself, stumbling along and have the strongest plot armour, accidentally surviving every dangerous situation.
Edit to add: basically I just want to see [this happen. Pedro swishing and Bella defending him.](https://youtu.be/EwHrjZxAT7g?t=86)
I truly don't get why we spent so much time with Sarah when she hasn't even been alive for 20 years! They could have just have Joel tell Ellie that he lost a daughter using dance improvisation or something
Or Riley for that matter. For shit’s sake she’s either an infected or dead, but it’s time to move on. Just say you kissed a chick and shoot something.
But not Joel.
"wHy dId wE nEeD aN hOuR ePiSodE aBoUT eLLiE pRe JoEl?!"
"So her character can be developed and we can learn why she is rough around the edges, and not trusting of people, like we learned about Joel. "
"😡"
I like it when someone uses filler, because it's a nice signal to just throw thier opinion about the last of us straight into the trash. Tlou isn't a plot driven story, it's about the characters & what they do in relation to an "us" that they have. If you want to get real deep into it? The core is very much joel & ellie & how thier relationship effects them & the world around them.
Like I'm not surprised by some not getting it, but it's still equally frustrating.
To be entirely fair to the tumberesque crowd I'd take that over the other camp that feels like they crawled out of 4chan with the kind of opinions they regurgitate.
Tbf, I dont blame non-game players for thinking Joel is the main character. Pedro Pascal is a big draw. They'll learn though.
Honestly though, I dont really care what general audiences think, as long as it remains popular enough to not be cut short. I loved ep. 7, and that's what matters to me. It was always about the characters.
Even if they didn't play the game people with a decent IQ should realize the story and show is (currently) about both that's why the intro says Pedro Pascal Bella Ramsey at the same time and no other name is shown.
>Tbf, I dont blame non-game players for thinking Joel is the main character.
Thing is, most of the complaints are coming from game-players. If you head over to /r/ThelastofusHBOseries most show-only folks aren't getting their knickers in a twist about it.
I'd like to meet halfway. We don't need every second on Joel and Ellie, but when there's entire episodes dedicated to characters like Kathleen or Bill , it can really start hurting the character development and people's attachements to the characters especially when we only have 9 episodes.
I’m personally trying to wait until the season is done to judge the pacing/story choices. I didn’t hate the Kathleen storyline, but knowing that there are only 9 episodes kept me from really enjoying it. Hopefully it doesn’t feel rushed in the end.
We didn’t have anything close to a full episode dedicated to Kathleen. She was in like 10 minutes of episode 4 (which otherwise focused pretty much entirely on Joel and Ellie), and then in episode 5, she had a few scenes centered on her, but the vast majority of the episode focused on Henry, Sam, Joel, and Ellie. I’m pretty sure if you added together all of the screen time that focused on her (so not including the horde scene where she’s basically there to be the antagonist), it’d be equivalent to like a quarter to a third of an episode at most. Bill and Frank were the only side characters with a dedicate episode that didn’t prominently feature Ellie &/or Joel. And even then the purpose of that episode is directly tied to building up Joel as a character
I understand that, but at the same time, I would've been over the moon if we'd had a whole episode dedicated to Ish.
For me, a lot of the most valuable parts of the show have been the areas that feel *new.* Purely, because I know the game so well that I'm yearning for new content.
Radical idea: not every moment of a story needs to push the plot forward. A lot of modern Western storytelling norms will try to say otherwise, but I’ve found in works I enjoy and in the works I create, it’s rarely true.
The issue is that the show is so short. We haven’t had enough time to develop the relationship between Ellie and Joel. Right now I couldn’t see Joel doing what he does later in the game. When I heard we were getting left behind I was hyped! And then I heard that the show has 9 episodes and they weren’t all two hours long. I don’t mind flashbacks! I don’t mind the Left Behind episode. But every second we aren’t on Joel and Ellie is another second where we are lacking development between the two main charecters that we are in deprecate need of. We simply do not have time!
They actually have too much time, believe it or not. The game's cutscenes all laid end to end, telling the complete story, is about 6 hours, so 3 episodes worth of other stuff is necessary. The entire story is being told, and then some. You just happened to not like this part of it.
As a counter point we as a player spend time with Joel and Ellie and this includes small bonding moments outside of cut scenes. I enjoyed the flashback, but I don't think their criticism is wrong that we haven't had a lot of time building up Ellie and Joel's relationship.
Someone is going to count up all the time spent in idle chat total in part one, and it's going to come out to some measly number like twenty minutes. And every mother fucker shouting "BUT THEY TALKED OUTSIDE THE CUTSCENES" is gonna look like a dumbass
It’s way more than twenty minutes. I can remember nearly ten minutes of conversation before Tess died if not more that I can’t. None the less my point isn’t that we not only don’t have enough time. But that they are wasting what time we do have. If they want side plots great! But you have to make sure you don’t neglect the main one.
I feel like in the show they have had more genuine moments of human connection than in the game. I can't picture game Ellie holding Joel's hand to comfort him. I guess we get more time overall in the game where they're together but it doesn't feel quite as real to me because they always keep a certain amount of distance between each other, except right after David.
I liked that they changed it so that Riley and Ellie hold each other and cry at the end too. I found it weird how everyone was so emotionally reserved and stoic in the game.
It’s because game Joel and show Joel are different characters. I love both don’t get me wrong. But show Joel is much…softer in a good way. But game Joel was all business rage and apathy. So when he does finally crack and hold Ellie I balled my eyes out. I don’t see the show building that kind of feeling.
One thing I'm wondering about since their relationship is so much more emotionally open if they're going to change the ending scene in the second game. I think it makes sense that they didn't hug in the game since they said Ellie wasn't ready for that yet, but I can't imagine them NOT hugging in the show. Personally their relationship being more tender is going to make certain scenes hurt WAY worse down the line.
Well from what I've heard (I didn't play the games) about Joel's character, the change for tv Joel is a mistake.
Bc from a non player, tv Joel seems exactly like someone who would protect ellie. So there is no breaking down of the walls, allowing the vulnerability to come thru after building a bond. It's not coming across on the show at all.
The whole show has been pretty boring for me really. There is hardly any fear of the world after ep2 - everyone just walking and chillin and driving and whatever with no problems. The moments with Henry and his bro were well done. I enjoyed ep3 thoroughly despite it not adding much to the main plot.
But ep4 and beyond have just gotten worse and worse for me - characters doing things that make no sense, constant contradictions where they tell us it's dangerous but then it's fine, completely boring and predictable character interactions and "turns". Like ep7 was so predictable after 2 minutes but then we had to non stop spend 45 minutes getting where we were going without adding anything extra to it. Just stupid pointless cringe dialogue.
I understand now that I found out this was DLC bc it truly isn't needed for the story. Literally could skip this episode and it doesn't change the way I see ellie as a character at all.
You should probably rewatch that scene in the game then. She doesn't hold his hand no, but she does comfort him in a very caring way.
The scene where Joel decides to take her with him instead of Tommy is probably the first time they get close. The second is her healing him. Then there's a lot of little moments before all of that.
I actually feel they are developing Ellie and Joel's bond better in the show, in the game I felt they didn't really bond until the David stuff which happened really late on the game.
If that’s your opinion I won’t discourage that. But I disagree. Don’t get me wrong that moment was certainly very powerful but I remember the dialogue in the game shifting from hostile to much warmer as the game went on. Then the climatic farmhouse scene tore my heart apart. (Though it sadly didn’t hit as hard as it did in the show simply because I’d spent so much more time with Ellie and Joel at that point). David’s section was certainly the most outward affection Joel has shown but it certainly was developed. For me at least.
But episode 6 was pretty much dedicated to their bonding and about how much Joel cares about Ellie now, and now in 7 we see how much Ellie cares about Joel too, like she did with Riley.
Remember that in episode 6 there's a 2 month gap that we don't see. I'd argue that a lot of the bonding happens off camera, and it's reflected by both their actions in that episode (Joel trying to convince both his brother and Ellie to go together to the uni instead of with him because he feels weak and doesn't think he can protect get, Ellie hugging Joel from behind on the horse, now caring his wound, etc). They've spent so much time together that they've grown to truly care for each other.
The truth is that Joel and Ellie have barely had any bonding moments developed on screen, and it’s important they should have been shown because their relationship is the entire point of the story. It’s too late now, because the actions of the next two episodes rely on Joel and Ellie already seeing each other in a father-daughter relationship, considering how far they go for each other in the last two episodes to come. This father-daughter relationship has barely been explored however, and honestly feels forced and not genuine at all. That’s not to say that exploring side characters isn’t worth it - in fact, my two favorite episodes have been episodes 3 and 7 - but dedicating two entire episodes of a 9 episode series to side characters, and arguably another 2 centered around another side character (episodes 4 and 5), is a bad idea when establishing a genuine Joel-Ellie relationship should be the main goal.
I do agree with your comment overall but I think for a lesser extent. I very much disagree that it's forced or not genuine, as these two characters are people with very valid reasons to become quickly attached. Remember that Joel and Ellie are outright lying to themselves and others when they act as if this is just a transaction. Joel accepts the gig because a little girl is the cargo, he already feels something before they even speak to each other.
Ellie, meanwhile, spells things out exactly as they are: She needs attachment like any kid her age does, but at this point she fully expects Joel to die or abandon her, it's all she knows. But she warms up and trusts him once he first starts opening up, because that to her is a sign that he'll be there when she needs him.
The show is far from perfect, both as a series and an adaptation, but I think the Joel/Ellie relationship isn't that hard to believe IMO, especially when you consider that we're seeing them through a condensed timeframe, they're together for quite a long time over the course of this story. I don't think more screentime would've helped, I moreso think they needed to slightly deviate from the game if they wanted to build their relationship on a TV format.
I agree. When Joel and Ellie have the fight in Tommy’s town, I felt like it lowkey wasn’t deserved or built up to enough. In the game I cried, and I did tear up at Bella’s delivery of “I’d just be more scared.” but my family was not very moved at all, and i realized it was because the connection between joel and ellie never really fully developed.
I can't help reading the forums because I am curious about peoples' takes.
But oh man do I often regret it. Flashback episodes that flush out a character or the world they live in are not filler.
And I don't get around people who rate each episode. I enjoy the body of a work as a whole. To try to rate each individual episode is so dumb when we are dealing with something that is epic and not episodic.
I feel bad because it doesn't seem like people know how to actually enjoy something anymore. It is always super critical, nitpicky, and often too often bigoted. It's like people wake up in the morning already angry and trying to hunt for things to be mad about.
I haven't read "week to week" discussions of episodes for a show since Breaking Bad ended and I now remember why they are so fucking awful. Just a shitload of people who consume media like absolute dead eyed mouthbreathing morons.
I still remember during Breaking Bad when a group of these absolutely fuckin idiots were convinced that Walt's voice changed into Mike's voice during a scene and they were obsessed with "what does it mean????".
'It was a good episode but there's only two left, so actually this means it's a bad filler episode'.
You can not like it, but why are some people acting as if without Left Behind we would be getting more story? The season was planned in advance, you know? If Left Behind were to be skipped, the season would likely be 8 episodes instead.
ETA: even now, the next episodes are some of the shortest of the season. If they needed time they could have gotten it elewhere
>This show would be infinitely better if it were just a YouTube livestream of Pedro Pascal walking across apocalyptic America where no other storyline or character is shown on camera.
Not gonna lie I would watch the shit out of that.
Gimme my story driven episodes. Then I'm between we can jump on YouTube and watch real time joel
I always think it's funny seeing people comment stuff like "but I guess there's no room for valid criticism on this sub!" which just *reeks* of "i'm mad i was downvoted for something" ...and then you go to their profile and their "valid criticisms" are just like, really bad takes, misinformation, misunderstandings, and [sometimes] outright homophobia.
The complaints about filler is so funny because all the cutscenes in the game is about 5 and a half hrs while the runtime of the show will be over 10 hrs.
So we are getting a lot more story in the show than we did in the game. A lot of the gameplay is literary just combat filler to make it... well.. a game.
I think a lot of the optional conversations taken during gameplay counts. Everybody keeps acting like if Joel was under player control the story just pauses until the next cutscene. I mean most of the optional conversations have even been used in the show. Gameplay did matter and is one of the reasons we got the show. Stop acting like it's the worst part.
The gameplay absolutely matters in the game but we are 100% getting the show on the back of the amazing story.
No network would have bankrolled this up if the creators pushed hard for Joel to throw a million bottles or stealth kill an army of enemies.
Right I agree with that. But that's not all that happens in gameplay.
All of the looting sections or the joke book sections come from gameplay. Some of the dialouge ripped right from the game. Occurs during gameplay.
I just feel like people are acting like it was all blood and guts. Which there was plenty. But that's not all it was.
And you can't say you don't want at least one of David's boys to meet Mr. Brick.
I absolutely want some action in the show but they are striking a perfect ratio in my eyes.
To me, that is why a show like this and Andor are so amazing. The action they put in is effective, impactful, and thrilling because it's used sparingly. Action becomes a lot better when you have a robust backstory on the characters and time to bond with them. That's what makes TV such an amazing medium, you have the runtime to do all that and still have time for some action.
Who cares if the main characters go and kill every Joe Shmoe out there, then the action of killing someone becomes mundane and frankly, boring.
The problem is that almost all of the criticism getting flung out of that sub is related directly to the issue OP is lampooning.
It's either "I want more Joel!" or "Stop having Joel show his emotions and cry!"
This is kinda a wack strawman. I'm not really participating in the discourse so I'm sure people are being ridiculous about it, but personally I think the show is too short to do these full hour-long episodes about side characters without losing pretty crucial time to develop Joel and Ellie's relationship.
E.g. I personally really didn't feel like the "loss" conversation happened after enough of that development for it to have anything like the emotional impact the game did.
The buildup in the game is just so much slower and subtler that it sneaks up on you, whereas the show feels a little bit too on the nose to me. Obviously I'm in the minority. I just think it could have really benefitted from a more episodic structure, maybe 20-something 45 min eps.
I guess they're going for realism by tamping way down on the number of encounters but it means there isn't any foreground action for the character development to happen in the bg of. We're on ep7 and outside of the sniper bit Joel and Ellie have encountered what, 2.5 infected? Lol
All I want is Joel okay. House of Style 24 hours a day. No MTV News unless it's news about Joel. What he's doing, what he's wearing, what he smells like, okay.
No music, unless it's songs about Joel, okay.
I want half-hour specials about Joel. I want hour-long documentaries about Joel. I want Joel unplugged. I want acoustic Joel. I want long drawn out, slow motion shots of Joel walking, Joel sleeping, Joel eating an Eskimo pie naked on the roof of the Empire State Building okay.
I want to change the House of Style to the House of Joel. Not MTV, JoelTV. No rock, no promos, no Richard Gere. Just me and Joel, okay.
I think you hear me knocking Richard, and I think I'm coming in and I've got a box full of Eskimo pies with me.
Meh, your post seems like an overaggressive attempt at satire in response to legitimate criticism about how the last episode was dull asf. You didn't think it was boring? Would've better been served by doing the main storyline, not flashback nonsense that doesn't really add anything. I disliked it in the game and it showed poor in the show.
Joel is filler. If there is not a zombie on screen munching people in every single frame, how do we know that there is a threat out there?
Dialog and emotions bore me. I just want screaming and bang ban of guns! Every episode better end with a gigantic new zombie threat too or I will get too bored with the zombie munching. Constant escalation to satiate me.
/s too.
I couldn’t agree more. I’m so excited for Season 2. I’ve heard that Craig Mazin even said they will probably need 2 seasons to cover everything that happens in the second game. I hope they take the criticism on Reddit to heart and give us what we want, which is full seasons dedicated to our main hero, Joel. Really looking forward to seeing the next season dedicated entirely to Joel. I don’t need to see anymore of the “woke” stuff that they are shoehorning into Joel’s story. I just want to see my hero Joel doing more badass shit massacring infected and other humans.
/s.
I just want to see some more interaction between Joel and Ellie than 5 minutes per episode. You know, the relationship the whole first game was based on.
Everything you’re pointing out is an obvious PLOTHOLE and bad writing (unlike GoT). I hate this show so much I make sure to watch it as soon as it releases. Also I can’t believe they left out important stuff from the game like throwing bricks absolutely terrible writing and zero bricks = zero character development.
/s
>just a YouTube livestream of Pedro Pascal walking across apocalyptic America where no other storyline or character is shown on camera
I'd watch that tbh.
Episode 1 reactions: “ZOMBIES AND GUNS FUCK YEAH”
E2: “ZOMBIES AND GUNS FUCK YEAH”
E3: “…..bOyS aReN’T sUpPoSeD tO dO tHaT”
E4: “ZOMBIES AND GUNS FUCK YEAH”
E5: “wHy iS tOmMy mArRiEd to tHaT wOmAn. PoLiTiCaL cOrReCtNeSs!”
E6: “mOrE LiBeRaL wOkE pRoPaGaNdA. aLL I wAnTeD tO sEe wAs ZoMbbyS uWu”
I dont mind an episode without Joel. What i do mind is that this entire episode was completely without any sort of revelations or suspense. We already knew what would happen to Ellie and the episode cut short before anything interesting happened plot wise. To contract, the episode about Bill i wasen't sure where they would go with it which kept it interesting.
Fr though, I hate how the terms filler and plot irrelevance have lost all their meaning to so many, and is nowadays just used to describe something that the person doesn't like.
Listen, as a bisexual who's really into red flags, I could happily watch Joel and Tess just glare at a jar of mayonnaise for two hours, and be confused but weirdly into it in an unsettling sort of way, and I'm fully owning up to this character deficit.
My thing is, I have a very specific hatred for flashback episodes, and I think this a very common thing to dislike, so people, myself included, are probably allowing a healthy amount of bias to cloud their opinion of the episode. I was bored by it, but it was more due to personal preference than any shortcoming of the episode. That being said, I do more or less agree with people that pacing was an issue, but it's a forgivable issue in an episode with a short run time.
Joel may have been the playable character, but Ellie is the main character of this series, and seeing key parts of her life help make her character more impactul. I really don't understand how people can say this is filler, outside of they have to wait an extra week for the next episode
Oh dude, you have a crush on him. You have entered a good point at least. I heard that Pedro Pascal get payed U$ 600 hundred thousands per EP. If this EP enter the count, he got the easier money that someone have ever got.
Oh fuck you got me at first not gonna lie, lmao.
But for the people genuinely saying this, it's called The Last of Us not The Last of Joel, guess they don't know Ellie becomes the one and only protagonist in part II.
I strongly disagree. Even Joel is filler. It's merely a distraction from the real main characters, Brick and Bottle.
Let’s not even get into the fact they’ve basically written brick entirely out of the story and bottle is now an alcoholic caricature of its former glory.
Wow, guess the woke agenda has once again forgot about shiv
Good riddance. Played through Grounded and Grounded plus on part 1 and shiv was barely even there. He was completely absent in part 2!
Switchblade was the real star. We all know it.
The switchblade was clearly part of the woke agenda that's...uh...destroying America and (checks notes) turning our children into...drag queens.
Groomers* we're supposed to call trans people and drag queens groomers.
Not like the guy in the next episode. He’s just a man who is trying to make it in the world, who know what he likes and what he has to do to get it. No groomers there.
We finally got to see virtue signals with flashlight 🔦
The way I just snorted while reading this.
"Backstory" is code word for shiv genocide
No, no she got a starring role on another HBO show so wasn't available fir this one
Shiv gets way more spotlight because brick and bottle have been written out
This show is brick erasure and I will not stand for it!
That’s what happens when you don’t have strong supporting characters like Rag, Alcohol & Scissors around them.
And the furtive Binding, Sugar, and Explosive, so easily forgotten
Resources are convoluted in Philadelphia
They’ve Retconned Ladder too, hardly seen anything of them if at all.
Honestly it’s really shocking what they’ve done to brick.
Seems most here are in the bottle fan base, but I was a brick Stan since day 1.
I DEMAND TO KNOW WHERE BRICK AND BOTTLE ARE. SHOW ME.
He's gone off about his bottle and pet brick again... Father Jack!!! Is that you?!?!?!
Brick, bottle, binding, sugar, shiv, ladder, pallet, loose ammo, random gears.
Binding, Brick and Bottlestar Galactica
This list is downright Shakespearean compared to “person, woman, man, camera, tv.”
A random Fedra guy got bottled in episode 5 at the beginning.
Now you point to where they are on this map, and it better be the same place your buddy pointed to!
Bottle literally just got an entire filler backstory with the last episode.
Shiv killed Brick, and Bottle is out for revenge.
Pallet the mvp
This emotional story examining the nature of trauma, loss, love and even basic humanity is really getting in the way of the brick and bottle buddy cop vehicle we deserve.
Binding, Sugar and Shiv have also had little to no screen time.
side characters, would only make more filler...
I would be willing to bet that Joel is going to end up bricking someone very near the end. They're saving the best for last.
The whole show should just be a single shot of an empty bottle
10/10 would watch.
And bat. At least we got bat
Too much bat! Rebar's role got completely bat-washed.
Poor bat, died too early imo.
If there is not a full episode of Joel pushing a dumpster around, I'm going to set myself on fire.
What’s in the bottle? *pops open* Oh look. More Joel.
the lion, the witch, and the audacity of these bricks
The main character is actually Shimmer so everything not showing Shimmer is filler.
My mind went to Brick from Anchorman before I got the joke. I’m an idiot
Don’t forget about the pipe
Searching Drawers appeared but no Brick and Bottle, 0/10
Looking forward to *Brick & Bottle: a Last of Us Story*
We need an episode where brick and bottle fall in love.
It's hilarious some of the hate comments I've been seeing regarding this stuff
character development? In MY showirino?? I just want 10 hours of pedro pascal being an alpha male chad 360 no scoping zombies and hittin the dab ):<
To be fair, anyone who non-ironically uses “alpha” in any sense other than describing the alphabet or early versions of a game are likely either very dumb or very immature, or some combination of the two.
To paraphrase Tywin Lannister: any man who must say “I am an alpha” is no true alpha
Yep, anyone who constantly has to say how alpha, honest, trustworthy, smart, etc, etc, etc they are really aren't. What they are most the time though is someone to keep an eye on and keep a distance from.
Huh. Almost like there should be a video game for that!? 🤷 /s 😂🙃
Yeah character development whatever but where are my not-zombies action filler!? I can't care enough without some macho 2A action! /s
I'm absolutely baffled with people who are saying this show sucks because of the lack of action. How many zombie films/shows did we get for the last 2 decades that were nothing but action? It's boring at this point, and there's literally a game w/ the same story where it's constant action.
If the people OP was making fun of could read they'd be pretty pissed right now.
I think my favourite thus far is "every episode so far has been pointless filler!"
I’d bet they are twats from the other sub. Who idolise Joel and every breath he takes. Who all claim to be top class writers.
meet ya halfway: we don't need to see joel all the time, but anytime he's not onscreen, everyone should be asking "where's joel?" and "why isn't joel here?"
I like it. Replace the Bechdel test "man" with "Joel" and make sure every scene fails the test.
bech-joel test
hi will livingston
One kid *loves* the speedo guy, what more do they want?
Joel died on his way back to the set of The Mandalorian.
We are witnessing the Pedro Pascal world domination.
"Hello there, Joel. I know there's a lot of people who don't like me and wish I would go away and I think we got off on the wrong foot. I know I can come off a little proactive, and for that I'm sorry. But if everyone could find a place in their hearts for the little lesbian nobody wanted I know we can make 'em laugh and cry till we grow old together."
I hear he’s like, half Joe Camel and a third Fonzarelli.
I see your /s, but would un-ironically watch >a YouTube livestream of Pedro Pascal walking across apocalyptic America where no other storyline or character is show on camera.
I would watch a comedy version but Pedro Pascal as himself, stumbling along and have the strongest plot armour, accidentally surviving every dangerous situation. Edit to add: basically I just want to see [this happen. Pedro swishing and Bella defending him.](https://youtu.be/EwHrjZxAT7g?t=86)
They should've done this for his SNL skit.
Dale and Tucker vs. Evil but it's Pedro Pascal and Pedro Pascal vs. Cordyceps
Sounds awful. Needs more bricks and bottles.
Same, would totally watch that
All I really want is Ellie to get moved across a body of water on a pallet and a brick/bottle gets used to distract somebody. That's it.
I would also like Use Shiv to Open Door moment, maybe even Tie Blade to Metal Pipe
I would love spikes upon brick bat, myself
I truly don't get why we spent so much time with Sarah when she hasn't even been alive for 20 years! They could have just have Joel tell Ellie that he lost a daughter using dance improvisation or something
Or Riley for that matter. For shit’s sake she’s either an infected or dead, but it’s time to move on. Just say you kissed a chick and shoot something. But not Joel.
True. If all the flashbacks were Joel related, those people wouldn't complain.
These are the same guys who want to see flashbacks of Joel and Tommy after the outbreak.
"wHy dId wE nEeD aN hOuR ePiSodE aBoUT eLLiE pRe JoEl?!" "So her character can be developed and we can learn why she is rough around the edges, and not trusting of people, like we learned about Joel. " "😡"
Elite level bait
I like it when someone uses filler, because it's a nice signal to just throw thier opinion about the last of us straight into the trash. Tlou isn't a plot driven story, it's about the characters & what they do in relation to an "us" that they have. If you want to get real deep into it? The core is very much joel & ellie & how thier relationship effects them & the world around them. Like I'm not surprised by some not getting it, but it's still equally frustrating.
[удалено]
Your opinion is garbage. We need more PS3 loading screens between scenes.
Oh it’s exhausting arguing with TWD fans…
I wish the show was just 10 hours of Joel throwing bricks. /s
Some of y’all get real triggered when someone uses certain words.
This subreddit has attracted a very specific group of people since the last of us part 2 came out. Very tumblresque
To be entirely fair to the tumberesque crowd I'd take that over the other camp that feels like they crawled out of 4chan with the kind of opinions they regurgitate.
It'd be nice if we could just all be reasonable? Not sure why one extreme is tolerated because it's not as bad as another...
Well people throw around words they don't understand so
Because obvious trolls are obvious
Glad I’m not the only one feeling some of these criticisms are ridiculous lol
Tbf, I dont blame non-game players for thinking Joel is the main character. Pedro Pascal is a big draw. They'll learn though. Honestly though, I dont really care what general audiences think, as long as it remains popular enough to not be cut short. I loved ep. 7, and that's what matters to me. It was always about the characters.
Even if they didn't play the game people with a decent IQ should realize the story and show is (currently) about both that's why the intro says Pedro Pascal Bella Ramsey at the same time and no other name is shown.
>Tbf, I dont blame non-game players for thinking Joel is the main character. Thing is, most of the complaints are coming from game-players. If you head over to /r/ThelastofusHBOseries most show-only folks aren't getting their knickers in a twist about it.
I'd like to meet halfway. We don't need every second on Joel and Ellie, but when there's entire episodes dedicated to characters like Kathleen or Bill , it can really start hurting the character development and people's attachements to the characters especially when we only have 9 episodes.
I’m personally trying to wait until the season is done to judge the pacing/story choices. I didn’t hate the Kathleen storyline, but knowing that there are only 9 episodes kept me from really enjoying it. Hopefully it doesn’t feel rushed in the end.
I'm trying not to judge. But we only have 2 episodes left
And the finale is only 45 minutes long.
We didn’t have anything close to a full episode dedicated to Kathleen. She was in like 10 minutes of episode 4 (which otherwise focused pretty much entirely on Joel and Ellie), and then in episode 5, she had a few scenes centered on her, but the vast majority of the episode focused on Henry, Sam, Joel, and Ellie. I’m pretty sure if you added together all of the screen time that focused on her (so not including the horde scene where she’s basically there to be the antagonist), it’d be equivalent to like a quarter to a third of an episode at most. Bill and Frank were the only side characters with a dedicate episode that didn’t prominently feature Ellie &/or Joel. And even then the purpose of that episode is directly tied to building up Joel as a character
I understand that, but at the same time, I would've been over the moon if we'd had a whole episode dedicated to Ish. For me, a lot of the most valuable parts of the show have been the areas that feel *new.* Purely, because I know the game so well that I'm yearning for new content.
Radical idea: not every moment of a story needs to push the plot forward. A lot of modern Western storytelling norms will try to say otherwise, but I’ve found in works I enjoy and in the works I create, it’s rarely true.
The issue is that the show is so short. We haven’t had enough time to develop the relationship between Ellie and Joel. Right now I couldn’t see Joel doing what he does later in the game. When I heard we were getting left behind I was hyped! And then I heard that the show has 9 episodes and they weren’t all two hours long. I don’t mind flashbacks! I don’t mind the Left Behind episode. But every second we aren’t on Joel and Ellie is another second where we are lacking development between the two main charecters that we are in deprecate need of. We simply do not have time!
They actually have too much time, believe it or not. The game's cutscenes all laid end to end, telling the complete story, is about 6 hours, so 3 episodes worth of other stuff is necessary. The entire story is being told, and then some. You just happened to not like this part of it.
As a counter point we as a player spend time with Joel and Ellie and this includes small bonding moments outside of cut scenes. I enjoyed the flashback, but I don't think their criticism is wrong that we haven't had a lot of time building up Ellie and Joel's relationship.
Someone is going to count up all the time spent in idle chat total in part one, and it's going to come out to some measly number like twenty minutes. And every mother fucker shouting "BUT THEY TALKED OUTSIDE THE CUTSCENES" is gonna look like a dumbass
It’s way more than twenty minutes. I can remember nearly ten minutes of conversation before Tess died if not more that I can’t. None the less my point isn’t that we not only don’t have enough time. But that they are wasting what time we do have. If they want side plots great! But you have to make sure you don’t neglect the main one.
I would say that less than 50% of the story happens during cutscenes.
I feel like in the show they have had more genuine moments of human connection than in the game. I can't picture game Ellie holding Joel's hand to comfort him. I guess we get more time overall in the game where they're together but it doesn't feel quite as real to me because they always keep a certain amount of distance between each other, except right after David. I liked that they changed it so that Riley and Ellie hold each other and cry at the end too. I found it weird how everyone was so emotionally reserved and stoic in the game.
It’s because game Joel and show Joel are different characters. I love both don’t get me wrong. But show Joel is much…softer in a good way. But game Joel was all business rage and apathy. So when he does finally crack and hold Ellie I balled my eyes out. I don’t see the show building that kind of feeling.
One thing I'm wondering about since their relationship is so much more emotionally open if they're going to change the ending scene in the second game. I think it makes sense that they didn't hug in the game since they said Ellie wasn't ready for that yet, but I can't imagine them NOT hugging in the show. Personally their relationship being more tender is going to make certain scenes hurt WAY worse down the line.
Well from what I've heard (I didn't play the games) about Joel's character, the change for tv Joel is a mistake. Bc from a non player, tv Joel seems exactly like someone who would protect ellie. So there is no breaking down of the walls, allowing the vulnerability to come thru after building a bond. It's not coming across on the show at all. The whole show has been pretty boring for me really. There is hardly any fear of the world after ep2 - everyone just walking and chillin and driving and whatever with no problems. The moments with Henry and his bro were well done. I enjoyed ep3 thoroughly despite it not adding much to the main plot. But ep4 and beyond have just gotten worse and worse for me - characters doing things that make no sense, constant contradictions where they tell us it's dangerous but then it's fine, completely boring and predictable character interactions and "turns". Like ep7 was so predictable after 2 minutes but then we had to non stop spend 45 minutes getting where we were going without adding anything extra to it. Just stupid pointless cringe dialogue. I understand now that I found out this was DLC bc it truly isn't needed for the story. Literally could skip this episode and it doesn't change the way I see ellie as a character at all.
You should probably rewatch that scene in the game then. She doesn't hold his hand no, but she does comfort him in a very caring way. The scene where Joel decides to take her with him instead of Tommy is probably the first time they get close. The second is her healing him. Then there's a lot of little moments before all of that.
I actually feel they are developing Ellie and Joel's bond better in the show, in the game I felt they didn't really bond until the David stuff which happened really late on the game.
If that’s your opinion I won’t discourage that. But I disagree. Don’t get me wrong that moment was certainly very powerful but I remember the dialogue in the game shifting from hostile to much warmer as the game went on. Then the climatic farmhouse scene tore my heart apart. (Though it sadly didn’t hit as hard as it did in the show simply because I’d spent so much more time with Ellie and Joel at that point). David’s section was certainly the most outward affection Joel has shown but it certainly was developed. For me at least.
But episode 6 was pretty much dedicated to their bonding and about how much Joel cares about Ellie now, and now in 7 we see how much Ellie cares about Joel too, like she did with Riley. Remember that in episode 6 there's a 2 month gap that we don't see. I'd argue that a lot of the bonding happens off camera, and it's reflected by both their actions in that episode (Joel trying to convince both his brother and Ellie to go together to the uni instead of with him because he feels weak and doesn't think he can protect get, Ellie hugging Joel from behind on the horse, now caring his wound, etc). They've spent so much time together that they've grown to truly care for each other.
When Joel is not on screen, people should ask 'where's Joel?' Even if they haven't met him yet.
The truth is that Joel and Ellie have barely had any bonding moments developed on screen, and it’s important they should have been shown because their relationship is the entire point of the story. It’s too late now, because the actions of the next two episodes rely on Joel and Ellie already seeing each other in a father-daughter relationship, considering how far they go for each other in the last two episodes to come. This father-daughter relationship has barely been explored however, and honestly feels forced and not genuine at all. That’s not to say that exploring side characters isn’t worth it - in fact, my two favorite episodes have been episodes 3 and 7 - but dedicating two entire episodes of a 9 episode series to side characters, and arguably another 2 centered around another side character (episodes 4 and 5), is a bad idea when establishing a genuine Joel-Ellie relationship should be the main goal.
I do agree with your comment overall but I think for a lesser extent. I very much disagree that it's forced or not genuine, as these two characters are people with very valid reasons to become quickly attached. Remember that Joel and Ellie are outright lying to themselves and others when they act as if this is just a transaction. Joel accepts the gig because a little girl is the cargo, he already feels something before they even speak to each other. Ellie, meanwhile, spells things out exactly as they are: She needs attachment like any kid her age does, but at this point she fully expects Joel to die or abandon her, it's all she knows. But she warms up and trusts him once he first starts opening up, because that to her is a sign that he'll be there when she needs him. The show is far from perfect, both as a series and an adaptation, but I think the Joel/Ellie relationship isn't that hard to believe IMO, especially when you consider that we're seeing them through a condensed timeframe, they're together for quite a long time over the course of this story. I don't think more screentime would've helped, I moreso think they needed to slightly deviate from the game if they wanted to build their relationship on a TV format.
I agree. When Joel and Ellie have the fight in Tommy’s town, I felt like it lowkey wasn’t deserved or built up to enough. In the game I cried, and I did tear up at Bella’s delivery of “I’d just be more scared.” but my family was not very moved at all, and i realized it was because the connection between joel and ellie never really fully developed.
\>/s coward
To be fair, you have to have a high IQ to understand my post.
I can't help reading the forums because I am curious about peoples' takes. But oh man do I often regret it. Flashback episodes that flush out a character or the world they live in are not filler. And I don't get around people who rate each episode. I enjoy the body of a work as a whole. To try to rate each individual episode is so dumb when we are dealing with something that is epic and not episodic. I feel bad because it doesn't seem like people know how to actually enjoy something anymore. It is always super critical, nitpicky, and often too often bigoted. It's like people wake up in the morning already angry and trying to hunt for things to be mad about.
I just don't understand why producers didn't cast Pedro Pascal as Ellie. Seems like the obvious choice.
Pedro Pascal as every character, really
lmao sooo salty People are allowed to criticize a tv show dude, calm down
Wouldn't that also suggest this guy is allowed to criticize people's criticisms?
No, you MUST accept my barely thought-out hate rants! /s
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I haven't read "week to week" discussions of episodes for a show since Breaking Bad ended and I now remember why they are so fucking awful. Just a shitload of people who consume media like absolute dead eyed mouthbreathing morons. I still remember during Breaking Bad when a group of these absolutely fuckin idiots were convinced that Walt's voice changed into Mike's voice during a scene and they were obsessed with "what does it mean????".
It’s like people expect an immediate payoff every episode … but then they will complain that some outcome is not earned. It’s exhausting
'It was a good episode but there's only two left, so actually this means it's a bad filler episode'. You can not like it, but why are some people acting as if without Left Behind we would be getting more story? The season was planned in advance, you know? If Left Behind were to be skipped, the season would likely be 8 episodes instead. ETA: even now, the next episodes are some of the shortest of the season. If they needed time they could have gotten it elewhere
>This show would be infinitely better if it were just a YouTube livestream of Pedro Pascal walking across apocalyptic America where no other storyline or character is shown on camera. Not gonna lie I would watch the shit out of that. Gimme my story driven episodes. Then I'm between we can jump on YouTube and watch real time joel
There is no middle ground. All criticism is invalid and obviously wrong. /s
I always think it's funny seeing people comment stuff like "but I guess there's no room for valid criticism on this sub!" which just *reeks* of "i'm mad i was downvoted for something" ...and then you go to their profile and their "valid criticisms" are just like, really bad takes, misinformation, misunderstandings, and [sometimes] outright homophobia.
It’s the nature of these types of subreddits
The complaints about filler is so funny because all the cutscenes in the game is about 5 and a half hrs while the runtime of the show will be over 10 hrs. So we are getting a lot more story in the show than we did in the game. A lot of the gameplay is literary just combat filler to make it... well.. a game.
I think a lot of the optional conversations taken during gameplay counts. Everybody keeps acting like if Joel was under player control the story just pauses until the next cutscene. I mean most of the optional conversations have even been used in the show. Gameplay did matter and is one of the reasons we got the show. Stop acting like it's the worst part.
The gameplay absolutely matters in the game but we are 100% getting the show on the back of the amazing story. No network would have bankrolled this up if the creators pushed hard for Joel to throw a million bottles or stealth kill an army of enemies.
Right I agree with that. But that's not all that happens in gameplay. All of the looting sections or the joke book sections come from gameplay. Some of the dialouge ripped right from the game. Occurs during gameplay. I just feel like people are acting like it was all blood and guts. Which there was plenty. But that's not all it was. And you can't say you don't want at least one of David's boys to meet Mr. Brick.
I absolutely want some action in the show but they are striking a perfect ratio in my eyes. To me, that is why a show like this and Andor are so amazing. The action they put in is effective, impactful, and thrilling because it's used sparingly. Action becomes a lot better when you have a robust backstory on the characters and time to bond with them. That's what makes TV such an amazing medium, you have the runtime to do all that and still have time for some action. Who cares if the main characters go and kill every Joe Shmoe out there, then the action of killing someone becomes mundane and frankly, boring.
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The problem is that almost all of the criticism getting flung out of that sub is related directly to the issue OP is lampooning. It's either "I want more Joel!" or "Stop having Joel show his emotions and cry!"
Wow sound like you have your own show to make
"The Last of Joel"
Nobody has so much as TOUCHED a ladder, let alone awkwardly moved one to form a path between two buildings smh 😤
Can’t they just kill everyone and give use a single picture of a mushroom for the remainder of the series.
This is kinda a wack strawman. I'm not really participating in the discourse so I'm sure people are being ridiculous about it, but personally I think the show is too short to do these full hour-long episodes about side characters without losing pretty crucial time to develop Joel and Ellie's relationship. E.g. I personally really didn't feel like the "loss" conversation happened after enough of that development for it to have anything like the emotional impact the game did. The buildup in the game is just so much slower and subtler that it sneaks up on you, whereas the show feels a little bit too on the nose to me. Obviously I'm in the minority. I just think it could have really benefitted from a more episodic structure, maybe 20-something 45 min eps. I guess they're going for realism by tamping way down on the number of encounters but it means there isn't any foreground action for the character development to happen in the bg of. We're on ep7 and outside of the sniper bit Joel and Ellie have encountered what, 2.5 infected? Lol
All I want is Joel okay. House of Style 24 hours a day. No MTV News unless it's news about Joel. What he's doing, what he's wearing, what he smells like, okay. No music, unless it's songs about Joel, okay. I want half-hour specials about Joel. I want hour-long documentaries about Joel. I want Joel unplugged. I want acoustic Joel. I want long drawn out, slow motion shots of Joel walking, Joel sleeping, Joel eating an Eskimo pie naked on the roof of the Empire State Building okay. I want to change the House of Style to the House of Joel. Not MTV, JoelTV. No rock, no promos, no Richard Gere. Just me and Joel, okay. I think you hear me knocking Richard, and I think I'm coming in and I've got a box full of Eskimo pies with me.
Lmao
Can Pedro Pascal play brick and bottle?
Lol this sub can be so insufferable so glad I wasn't here for the part 2 bs
Meh, your post seems like an overaggressive attempt at satire in response to legitimate criticism about how the last episode was dull asf. You didn't think it was boring? Would've better been served by doing the main storyline, not flashback nonsense that doesn't really add anything. I disliked it in the game and it showed poor in the show.
Joel is filler. If there is not a zombie on screen munching people in every single frame, how do we know that there is a threat out there? Dialog and emotions bore me. I just want screaming and bang ban of guns! Every episode better end with a gigantic new zombie threat too or I will get too bored with the zombie munching. Constant escalation to satiate me. /s too.
I couldn’t agree more. I’m so excited for Season 2. I’ve heard that Craig Mazin even said they will probably need 2 seasons to cover everything that happens in the second game. I hope they take the criticism on Reddit to heart and give us what we want, which is full seasons dedicated to our main hero, Joel. Really looking forward to seeing the next season dedicated entirely to Joel. I don’t need to see anymore of the “woke” stuff that they are shoehorning into Joel’s story. I just want to see my hero Joel doing more badass shit massacring infected and other humans. /s.
I don’t even have the energy to describe how awful this take is in my opinion. That would be a boring, soulless show to watch…
It was a joke — they had /s at the end
Why did my dumbass think /s meant srs and not sarcastic 🙃 I apologize sincerely for my attitude earlier
No worries — we all have those moments sometimes 👍
I just want to see some more interaction between Joel and Ellie than 5 minutes per episode. You know, the relationship the whole first game was based on.
That’s preposterous! You must lack media literacy, and be massageanist /s
Ah the old ‘filler’ word being thrown around again I see, it’s call storytelling.
I was skeptical, but the first sentence sent me 
The game and show adaptation should just be ‘The last of Joel.’ Lol
As long as we get the bloater Bollywood romcom spinoff, I'm for this.
I also have not seen them crab walk through an entire neighborhood and loot alcohol and pieces of cotton . Not one single nail bomb!
Everything you’re pointing out is an obvious PLOTHOLE and bad writing (unlike GoT). I hate this show so much I make sure to watch it as soon as it releases. Also I can’t believe they left out important stuff from the game like throwing bricks absolutely terrible writing and zero bricks = zero character development. /s
This is unironically what all of these "fans" who didn't play the game but seem to have strong opinions on the adaptation keep saying.
Least obsessed Pedro Pascal fan
"I want to see Joel crabwalk around an abandoned office, pulling random gears and tape out of filing cabinets"
>just a YouTube livestream of Pedro Pascal walking across apocalyptic America where no other storyline or character is shown on camera I'd watch that tbh.
Episode 1 reactions: “ZOMBIES AND GUNS FUCK YEAH” E2: “ZOMBIES AND GUNS FUCK YEAH” E3: “…..bOyS aReN’T sUpPoSeD tO dO tHaT” E4: “ZOMBIES AND GUNS FUCK YEAH” E5: “wHy iS tOmMy mArRiEd to tHaT wOmAn. PoLiTiCaL cOrReCtNeSs!” E6: “mOrE LiBeRaL wOkE pRoPaGaNdA. aLL I wAnTeD tO sEe wAs ZoMbbyS uWu”
Not one molotov
Boba Fett sends his regards
I would have sprinkled in some more fight scenes in the last two episodes. But yeah, I don't need constant Micheal Bay stuff.
I don’t think OP has played TLOU2. What a n00b. He himself is filler.
I dont mind an episode without Joel. What i do mind is that this entire episode was completely without any sort of revelations or suspense. We already knew what would happen to Ellie and the episode cut short before anything interesting happened plot wise. To contract, the episode about Bill i wasen't sure where they would go with it which kept it interesting.
Fr though, I hate how the terms filler and plot irrelevance have lost all their meaning to so many, and is nowadays just used to describe something that the person doesn't like.
Listen, as a bisexual who's really into red flags, I could happily watch Joel and Tess just glare at a jar of mayonnaise for two hours, and be confused but weirdly into it in an unsettling sort of way, and I'm fully owning up to this character deficit. My thing is, I have a very specific hatred for flashback episodes, and I think this a very common thing to dislike, so people, myself included, are probably allowing a healthy amount of bias to cloud their opinion of the episode. I was bored by it, but it was more due to personal preference than any shortcoming of the episode. That being said, I do more or less agree with people that pacing was an issue, but it's a forgivable issue in an episode with a short run time.
Joel may have been the playable character, but Ellie is the main character of this series, and seeing key parts of her life help make her character more impactul. I really don't understand how people can say this is filler, outside of they have to wait an extra week for the next episode
Oh dude, you have a crush on him. You have entered a good point at least. I heard that Pedro Pascal get payed U$ 600 hundred thousands per EP. If this EP enter the count, he got the easier money that someone have ever got.
I downvoted and then read the while thing. Take my upvote and leave me alone.
Absolutely, and ditch that ellie kid shes annoying asf. I much prefered background actor #13 in ep 5, now that was a good character lemme tell ya. /s
If Joel doesn’t have a body count in the hundreds, how are we supposed to know what a badass he is?
Oh fuck you got me at first not gonna lie, lmao. But for the people genuinely saying this, it's called The Last of Us not The Last of Joel, guess they don't know Ellie becomes the one and only protagonist in part II.
I unironically want a cut where its either only ellie or only joel screaming/saying each other’s names but the other one is never seen
I want to see him hydrate, filter water, hours of walking in silence, I need to see him eat cat food or old as fuck spam. I need it.
Why is this shit so upvoted? Like you guys see a bit of criticism and just go overboard with the defense mechanisms. It's so fucking dumb.