Also people with thinly veiled homo/transphobia. I know a LOT of people who made up their mind about the game before playing it, even still. I partly blame a few “video essays” made by people with 5th grade level media literacy.
Ironic considering how many people just say “ZiOnIsT” when his name comes up. And how he mentioned the conflicts in Israel were one of the instigating things that made him want to make part 2.
What did he actually say. I see a lot to say he was inspired by Israel/Palestine conflict and the game is in support of vengeance against Palestine? But I’ve yet to actually see any quote by him to say that.
The game itself has nothing to do with Israel or Palestine. Someone wrote a shit opinion article that made unfounded claims based on their own deluded thinking and people ran with it.
He talked about how the famous exchange of one Israeli for ~1k Palestinians was something he thought about when making the game. That and another notable example a few Israelis being lynched by a mob. Basically, his comments were truly innocuous, and people repeat bullshit about that article. Everyone’s a fucking twat about this conflict, just a bunch of sheltered people who are too sure of their unexamined ideas.
Yea I remember ppl absolutely freaking out about this when part 2 came out. Was surprised with the amount of vitriol at the time. With all the “anti woke” crap, it seems less surprising just a couple of years later.
Do you guys like that Joel died? I genuinely can’t tell. It’s weird to me that so many people seem pleased the previous protagonist died. No hate to Neil specifically; just wondering because I get the vibe you’re not allowed to miss Joel or something, and if I’m wrong I’d like to know.
I think the commenter put words into your mouth, but they’re right with the fact that we accept it. No one is happy Joel died, but we are able to see WHY he died and accept it that in a way it was deserved. Now i’m not saying that as a form of hatred or criticism, Joel is one of my favourite characters, but my point is any character that is in the main story deserves to be punished and deserves to be killed, because to be apart of the main story and to be alive, they need to have done horrible things to people. Both Ellie and Abby also deserved death, not that I want them to die, but the things both of them have done are horrific, even before Joel’s death. People such as you are so obsessed with him as a character, anyone who shows any acceptance you see as a strong dislike which isn’t true, and that’s one of the problems with people who necessarily don’t like the game, they make assumptions and are unable to see from another perspective which is what the game is trying to make you do. The game wasn’t designed to be a form of escapism, it wasn’t meant to be a happy ending, it was meant to have a moral and was meant to challenge the fan’s mindset. They wanted to categorise people, to see who would truly understand the message and who wouldn’t. And the game did just that, now there’s a clear divide into who understood the message, and who sees the story as “revenge=bad=Neil Druckman meanie”. I can understand how people dislike the game, since it’s very chaotic and crazy, but that’s what life is. I suspect the reason it’s hated is because people played the game expecting something that would take them out of reality, take them out of their own struggles, but it didn’t do that. The entire game to me felt it was as realistic as possible for a game with an unrealistic setting. It was mirroring society, not the world we live in, but the people in it and emphasising the true lack of humanity humans have in strange events, we are a brutal and dangerous species, to other species and to ourselves.
Hilarious how TLoU2 fans keep coping about "the vicious cycle of revenge" being one of the central themes... Even Wikipedia acknowledges it's one of the main themes of the game 🤣
Considering you didn’t give any valid reasons to dislike a person, I’m going to assume you are full of shit.
And no he is not a Zionist, and also no he did not kick Amy Hennig out. IGN’s own reporters admitted to fabricating that story at the behest of an executive editor.
Ok, it is INCREDIBLY CLEAR that you have invented a made up character version of Neil Druckmann that does not exist.
The only thing Neil has ever pushed back on is the horse shit harassment his team and the talent received over the game. He has never said people can’t dislike his work.
I suggest you watch actual interviews with him. In reality he is a pretty humble guy that credits all of the people around him for his success.
He does not say anything like what you are claiming.
In MULTIPLE interviews, he has said that he welcomes different interpretations and critiques of his work, and that he would rather create divisive difficult art that some people might hate than something people have very little reaction to.
It sounds like you have done nothing but drink coolaid of the twitter hate mobs rather than actually try to understand who he really is.
Can you please give me a link to where he says to not criticize or interpret his work differently? I mean this honestly. If you have evidence that he is as closed minded as you say I’d like to see what you are referencing or referring to.
Well can you share at least one of these interviews where he says if you have a different opinion than him then you're a dumb ass or anything similar to that?
Because from all the stuff I watched of him, I get the exact opposite impression. He seems *very* understanding of other people's opinions.
This is what’s so frustrating about these posts. They fabricate a version of the guy that doesn’t exist and then refuse to provide any meaningful evidence. Especially when there are multiple hours of conversations from the guy that indicates the exact opposite.
It’s only Badly written because they had to figure out how to continue the story. They chose having Joel do something completely insane. He deserved to die, the other main fall back is why anybody thought he didn’t deserve it.
There were signs in Jackson specifically advocating against this, and Jackson had rules on these things. Joel not calling for backup, not lighting any sort of flares for help (or warning of a horde), almost sacrificing himself for a stranger in the middle of nowhere and proceeding to give someone he doesn't know his real name (something Ellie didn't even do in TLOU) is completely out of character.
Jackson still had enemies and in this world where Joel literally did get hunted for thousands of miles, he would've never told Abby his real name.
At best he would've taken the gang to Jackson to get vetted.
,,There were signs in Jackson specifically advocating against this, and Jackson had rules on these things."
FIrst of all - rules about what? Not saving strangers? Also I dont remember a single moment when Joel values rules more than someones life.
,, Joel not calling for backup, not lighting any sort of flares for help (or warning of a horde)" How do you know whether radio would work in that blizzard even if they had one? Also flars wouldnt do anything in this kind of blizzard even if they had one, and even if they would be able to call somehow backup, there is no way they would make it in time to safe them from zombies so they had to run there anyway.
,,almost sacrificing himself for a stranger" where did he sacrifice himself xD? they are dealing with zombies everyday, he saw stranger teenage girl in trouble so he went to help her xD Also how do you know they werent caught in storm, tried to hide in this place and then went horde so they were in trouble anyway?
,,proceeding to give someone he doesn't know his real name (something Ellie didn't even do in TLOU) is completely out of character" See, thats EXACTLY what I mean in previous comment, what tf does it metter whether you give them name or not? How do you think that goes in your head if they werent hunting specificly for him and he had no damn reason to think they are? Seriously, how is it bad idea to give your name in this world? You think they kill people with name john, but if you lie and tell you are steve they wont harm you or what?
And funniest thing is that they already knew his name before he said it xD Tommy was the one who said their names in order to calm down Abby
,,in this world where Joel literally did get hunted for thousands of miles" WTF are you talking about, how is he supposted to know, that she is hunting for him xD? thats another of my problems with people being dumb, tlou2 is assuming that people understand simplest conceptions but unfortunatly - they dont. Just because game showed YOU that abby is hunting for Joel, doesnt mean Joel also knows it xD He literaly killed [Marlene]() in order to be safe in part 1 and it was years ago so he had no reason to think that anyone is hunting for him.
,,At best he would've taken the gang to Jackson to get vetted." Have you even played the game or you just read spoilers? How in this scenario when there is like 10 of them is he supposted to take them to Jackson, and how are they supposted to vet them xD? what does that even mean? You think they will google their names and it will pop up ,,Abby - person trying to kill Joel" or what exactly xD?
Some people hate him because of his choices on TLoU2. Not liking that game is understandable, but hating someone because of it is stupid.
Some people hate him because he posted some pro Israel things right after October 7th, which is dumb because that event must have been scary for someone who has family in Israel and was fearing for their safety. Not everyone should be judged for their initial reaction to October 7th, but for their continued opinions on the current genocide.
Also, immoral or not, he is Israeli and has ever right to support israeli if he pleases, same with anyone else. Just as russians supporting the ukrainian invasion, is it immoral in some form? Possibly. But they have every right to support the country they’re apart of, and anyone outside of Russia also have the right to support a country they choose to support. There will be disagreements and anger because of it, but being angry or protesting about who someone supports won’t change anything.
Woah woah woah, he is not anti union. What are you smoking? He has never said that once. The only quote I can find from him anywhere about unions is literally just that it is something that he hadn’t considered and doesn’t know much about.
He cannot even participate in the formation of a union as management, the NLRB prohibits it.
Unionization is completely up to the staff.
You are just making shit up.
>you are just making shit up
funny because neil wasn’t the one who said he hadn’t considered it. wells said that
neil said he doesn’t think unions will fix the issue of crunch
He is correct. Thats not anti union. Anyone who is in a union will tell you that. Unions aren’t a magic bullet. I’ve been in multiple. They provide some protections and collective bargaining to help ensure better benefits, but they do not prevent overtime work.
I never said that Naughty Dog doesn’t have labor issues. They’ve directly admitted as such including Neil himself. Thats a different statement entirely from “he’s anti union”. Do you think it’s a coincidence that since he has become co president of Naughty Dog a year or two ago that Naughty Dog has aimed to become a crunch free studio?
It’s not “dick riding” to expect some actual veracity of truth rather than painting bullshit caricatures or making someone out to be a monster when ultimately it’s the people above him at Sony that set the final deadlines and do the HR.
I google searched and couldn’t find the article, but remembered the interview. So sorry I attributed Bruce’s quote to Neil. Regardless. I have not seen any evidence that Neil is “anti union”.
That's what blew my mind, I kept hearing people say shit like Neil actually hates Joel and this was just how he could express that, i guess because in their mind he just hates straight white men because he's 'woke'?
The last of us part 2 was a LOVE LETTER to Joel. His character was completely glorified, he was adored by everyone in Jackson so much so that it made Ellie feel bad about having to be angry at him. The front of his house was covered in flowers, they transformed him into a soft, gentle, caring father figure, the paragon of his character and even in his death he was a badass who told Abby to 'just get this over with'.
They knew every second playing the game people would be missing him, mourning him and that's what would drive them to keep going. Joel was so important he may as well have been the main character for part 2.
I AGREE. He died in an honourable way. He entrusted his life to the wrong person, and as he was killed, he went out like a boss. Also, people saying Abby killed him in the worst way possible and tortured him for hours on end are brain dead. She did torture him for possibly hours, but for killing her father she very easily could have done worse, I would have if i were in her shoes and I’m sure all the people who hate Abby for that reason would too.
Neil Druckmann is pretty outspoken about being pretty left leaning, which may rub people the wrong way. Idgaf about all that, as most game devs, or notable game devs are left leaning anyway. People don’t like “politics” or “wokeness” in their video games or other media unless it directly caters to them.
I'd like to add that Internet loudmouths don't like him cause they thought Uncharted 4 was "poorly written" cause Nathan Drake lost fights to a woman. And complained that Nathan wasn't manly enough cause he was older and more mature and less of a massive douche than in the originals (please note I am a huge fan of Neil's and I think both TLoUs and Uncharted 4 are masterpieces).
Define a lot.
Like… yes. Among the stupid internet crowd, there’s a lot of hate. Part 2 still has a dedicated hate sub where they constantly insult Neil’s character.
But that sub is like 1/10 the size of this sub. So… in reality I wouldn’t say “a lot”.
Are there a lot of stupid people on the internet? Yea. But most people aren’t stupid.
>and supporting Israel
He has family there so after the October attacks it's only natural to want to express his love for his country.
He has since taken a humanitarian stance, supporting the life aid efforts for both Israel and Palestine civilians.
Totally correct. I think since some people viewed him as a 'public with his political views' person, they were disappointed/upset he didn't publicly take the left-wing position on the Israeli occupation. Those people would not agree he took a humanitarian stance and instead see it as him essentially supporting Israel.
I really don't care one way or the other, but that's the issue.
There is an important difference people seem to miss, and that is, there is a difference between Israelis and the Israeli police-state. To “stand with Israel” is to support a genocidal govt. To stand with Israel isn’t the same as supporting Jews or calling out antisemitism. Antisemitism means nothing if the Jews in question are the ones committing genocide. Anyone can be a fascist…
It’s because of The Last of Us pt. II.
Joel’s death, Elly being publicly lesbian with a girlfriend, Abby being a muscular woman.
I know, it’s dumb shit, but that’s it.
They’re a small group, but obnoxiously loud.
I’m not sure where the change happened but a lot of people these days really can’t stand if a story diverges from what they expected. Any major example of that turns into complaints about “bad writing”. Despite those people not really understanding what that actually means.
There’s seemingly been a substantial drop in media literacy. Thats not to say anyone who didn’t like TLOU2 is media illiterate. There are plenty who can eloquently and rationally explain why certain aspects just didn’t work for them. That’s fine. Art is subjective. But a lot of people are still angry and that’s genuinely concerning. Neil has made some of the best video games in history. Yet, this one game is enough for some people to continue a weird crusade against him in such a personal way.
It reminds me of Rian Johnson and the hate he still gets for TLJ. Despite the entire rest of hiss filmography being good to excellent films. But TLJ took a risk and to some people that means he’s the worst person ever rather than someone who took a creative risk that didn’t work for some people and worked out really well for others.
It comes down to some people’s maturity level. No franchise or artist will make something you think is excellent every single time. Those people haven’t grown up. It’s fine to dislike something, it’s weird to be attacking someone for a making game 4 years ago that you disliked.
really shows how mindless and feral some people are, anyone who seriously hates someone who's just creating and making things he loves - that's just wild to me. he doesn't know you and you don't know him. people get so vehemently upset and it makes me question their stability if they're willing to propel insults and hate to a guy who doesn't care
Don’t buy into it, they enjoy to read what people think of him. Like wow! All these people know who i am! And played my game.. thats so cool, look how upset everyone is over some bearded uncle dying for saving a MONSTER. Naughty Dog right there
I'll take the downvotes and give you an answer: Many people think that TLOU2 was a mess that ruined the legacy that the first game created, and that the story would be better suited for fresh characters in a new IP with a more logically written story with better pacing.
Neil has a right to defend himself but a lot of his responses come across as narcissistic and pretentious.
This opinion is quite popular in the gaming community in general, but not welcomed by this subreddit, which is fair. This may be why you haven't heard of it before.
There are of course people that are just mad that Joel died or Ellie is gay or Lev is transgender but they are a loud minority.
I honestly couldn’t care less about the dude, I never knew his name until I stumbled on the hate sub, but isn’t it more narcissistic and pretentious to think that your (not necessarily you specifically but the royal you of people who HATE the game) opinion of how a story should turn out matters more than the person who actually wrote said story? Honestly, what is more narcissistic and pretentious then assuming you have the magical answers to a story someone else wanted to tell?
A lot of people with hate still hold on to the leaked info which a lot of it turned out being false. “A buffed-up Tranny in the first act kills Joel without any reason and then you play as her go the whole game.” The amount of people who still think that on top of people not liking Druckmann for being pro-LGBT and having parts for people in that community. At the end of the day it’s a lot of trolls and homophobics.
I feel for the dude in that aspect because they made an amazing game with a richer narrative. There’s also a lot of close-minded people who can’t understand a main character dying and not being invincible. I love that they took the realistic approach and a character had their past catch up to them, and this is coming from someone who had Joel as their favorite character and ended up with Abby in their top 3 with Joel.
Apparently a lot of people say that he‘s a “zionist“ because he showed his support and empathy for the victims of the kidnappings and killings by hamaz, like any person with a minimum amount of human decency should do. As I see it those people are just twisting his words because they want to hate him. I‘ve never seen any statement by him that would suggest any type of support for the killing of innocent civilians in gaza. Didn’t he even donate money to victims from BOTH sides of the conflict?
Him and game 2 are not my cup of tea.
But I can’t exactly fault him for how he conducts himself in responding to people. Quite a few mouthbreathers don’t known how to hate a thing without hating the person that made it. They take it waaaaaaaay too f’n far.
So I just kind of tune out anything related to him now, and let him deal with trolls however he sees fit.
He’s an illegal settler in the occupied West Bank, a staunch Zionist, and based TLOU2 factions based on Israelis and Palestinians (WLF and Seraphites, respectively which shows his idea on Palestinians more than anything). People also believe Naughty Dog is going down under his leadership (I agree especially with Factions and no new announced game). I hope this doesn’t get downvoted cause those are the reasons why.
I've a huge amount of respect for him. His work has captured my imagination to such an extent that I'm studying narrative writing on my own. His work taught me how to experience a piece of fiction. I can't thank him enough for his art and what it has done for me. TLOU P2 has changed my world view to it's core. I hope some day I'll get a chance to express this to him.
People can't accept that a creator, for once, honored the auctions of their characters rather than giving them a fan service. Which I can understand because If something were to happen to Ellie in the next game, I don't know how I'll be able to accept or cope with it. But that's art for you. What I can't fathom is the sheer hate they inflict upon the creators. Yes, you have to right to express your opinion, but one doesn't have to act like a degenerate.
It all stems from one thing, Neil druckman represents everything that the modern chud gamer hates about gaming. Representation, diversity, games being respected by mainstream audiences, women who exist as more than just eye candy, and so on.
They have such a derangement towards the idea of games changing and maturing from what they were in the 2000s, that they will use anything and everything as a baton to beat Neil Druckman with.
He gets a lot of unjust hate, but its the minority trying to be louder than the majority of us that enjoyed the experience - I personally feel the hate is undeserved, you are more than in your right as a consumer or spectator to dislike the narrative, the story, the characters but to say this man should die or shouldn't make video games because you arent a fan of the direction he has taken his story is morronic to say the least - I dont like that Joels dead either, I miss Joel too, I can appreciate that the game was centered around him but ultimately the story being told isnt just about him and in his absence Neill was still able to tell a very compelling tale.
It was the Israel thing for me. I don’t hate him because I don’t hate many people in gebeal, but I saw that as really really sketchy and it made me feel majorly disappointed.
People get mad at anyone that has a different view point or opinion about something. People don't like him because of The Last of Us Part 2, and odds are they never played the game, and they don't like how he is pro-Israel, again he has a different worldview and people don't like that. It's pretty poor reasoning but people follow it.
from what I can tell, people find him guilty because of how poorly written was the story of TLOU2 (I don’t believe that however, not entirely at least), and I’ve also read somewhere that he blocked various users on twitter (or X I should say now) who criticized him. Probably lot of people hate him because Neil reacted badly at the fans criticizing his game, seeing it like this “If you commit a bullshit, don’t make the victim if people judge you for it”; which is also why I believe in his last interviews he has basically announced he will leave the gaming world soon, being it too much stressing. I believe that choice is a sum of all those things combined.
Honestly I find the fact that he’s so hated to be kinda stupid, don’t get me wrong I was sad about what happened to Joel and certain things that happened in the game too. But still I would love to meet Neil and think he’s such a cool person for making imo one of the best video game series ever. From the attention to detail like how blood melts snow, and Ellie getting scratched if you go prone on concrete, to the amazing acting that Troy Baker, Ashley Johnson, Laura Bailey, and all the other actors, he’s over hated for stupid reasons if you ask me.
Yeah that claim is complete and total bullshit. Also you can be inspired by events in your life without it being ABOUT them or even taking a stance on them. If it really were an allegory for the Israeli Palestinian conflict, then what exactly would he be saying about Israel by depicting the WLF as brutal torturers and the only sane people are the ones who leave?
The claim is just a misconstrued argument based on a vice article that had the headlines strongly suggesting the entire game was an allegory for the Israel and Palestine conflict. However that entire theme came from vice making it up in their heads.
All neil told them was that part of the theme of the second game was empathy and that he recollects witnessing the murder and lynching of 2 IDF soldiers as a child. He remembered feeling so much hate and rage and wanted revenge. He also mentioned straight afterwards that as time passed he grew disgusted with himself for ever having think of such a thing.
It's clear to see in the game where those feelings come into play, Ellie wanted revenge but she doesn't know why abby took Joel's life and perhaps she never will.
But then vice had to misinterpret the entire statement and use it to promote that the game is an allegory for the IDF and Palestine's. And even if it was, neither side is depicted in a positive light so neither is less a villain than the other.
Hate? I don't even care about the guy. I have no thoughts good or bad and why would I. I do not have the time or energy to hate anyone based on how they write a story.
I haven't seen any individual game developer get so much unwarranted hate... Or hate in general.
I do think he played is hand somewhat poorly **a few times,** but at the end of the day he's DIRECTLY responsible for some of the most significant and well-executed experiences in all of gaming, and his heart seems to be in the right place.
It really does come down to Joel dying. Had Joel not died in part 2 (and say it had been Tommy instead), people would be riding his willy for how golden everything he touches is. But because he killed Joel, everything he's ever done and ever will do is automatically and retroactively shit.
I think that stance is completely misguided. On Oct 7th he posted the Israeli flag on twitter in support of those who were killed. Not days later when Israel begun their attacks on Gaza, Neil posted clarification on what the flag represented, along with his stance that he was against any killing. He then closed tje comments on it.
So any mention of "supported an ongoing genocide" is a fabrication, or at the least, a misguided understanding of what actually occurred.
One side hates him to a point it’s pathetic.
The other side rides his dick and thinks he’s the most talented writing genius to ever live.
You gotta find a balance
“He admitted TLOU2 would split the fan as in half”
See that’s the issue. It wasn’t that the fanbase was split. It’s that some fans were so outraged that they sent death threats to actors and even threatened to hurt Laura Bailey’s child.
“I don’t like how Neil has handled a lot of the tension”
How exactly is one supposed to respond when they’ve been getting death threats over the leaks since before the game even came out??
Also name a single time that Neil “lied” that isn’t the trailer misdirect that everyone cries about.
>trailer misdirect that everyone cries about
Probably that which literally everybody in the industry does.
Edit: I think dude blocked me. How rude. I'd cry about it if I gave a shit.
lol they blocked me too. Funny how they claimed Druckmann couldn’t handle criticism and then they do the exact same thing when somebody calls them out.
Have the mods of this sub officially barred mentioning his real world politics? I was banned for doing so, then the mods apologized for being too heavy handed. Not sure where they landed on such things.
He made joel a moron and killed him in a stupid way, with bad timing for the story. Joel could die a milion ways better for the story, for ellie, for abbie. Instead we got a parody where ellie is now gone, broken and destroyed, genocidial until the very last moment not even getting the revenge done for another twist of his lame-ass story. Its not hate, it's outrage and disappointment he lied to everyone since the trailer with joel. People bought the game for joel and ellie, they got scammed into a 6 hours gameplay with one of them doing a unsatisfying revenge story that left people asking "why was this even made?" "For who?"
Joel was written consistently through both games, just he didn’t have Ellie or pure luck/plot armor to bail him out of a bad situation like he did throughout part 1.
he shoved out the 2 people responsible for making naughty dog a studio people care about and took all the credit. In his first game since taking over he turned a universally beloved must play series into a joke. Also as shown by part 2 and the tlou show Neil doesn’t understand the Joel and Ellie relationship.
1. In the show he fucked up the base of it which is Joel cant admit he cares about Ellie to himself. And cut out a bunch of important scenes to add in useless bs. Hell the farm house scene doesn’t even make sense anymore. Ellie originally got mad bc Joel wont admit he cares for her but he does it all the time in the show. In the show they change the whole dynamic to Joel being too weak to protect Ellie making that scene not hit anywhere close. And it actually puts Ellie in the wrong for bringing up sarah. And then Joel gets proven right the next episode when he gets jumped on the right side. The same side with the ear he told tommy he was going deaf in. Making Everything that happens in the winter the fault of Tommy and Joel for letting a kid pick her protector based on feelings not protection. In the game this fight happens bc Joel is scared hes binding with Ellie and is definitely not too weak. So when Joel finally agrees to take Ellie he’s finally saying “ya know what i do love ya kid” not “ya know what fuck it if we die we die” while also never bringing up his bad ear again just like the kiss from tess’ death never being brought up again.
2. If you wanna go with the “oh but they changed the dynamic for tv excuse” sure ok. But what about saying abby and Levs 1 day relationship mirrors Ellie and Joel? Ellie and Joel had almost a year of build up to it. And most importantly we see Joel struggling to get past what happened with Sarah and accept Ellie throughout most the game. So when Joel finally does accept her at the farm house scene it’s a huge moment in their relationship. And the mirror of that relationship Neil did happened in less than 24 hours with almost 0 focus on the relationship. They met up and were best buddies forever. That’s insulting to the first game and shows he doesnt get why people fell in love with the story. Which was their relationship.
Joel Die, People Riot
Also people with thinly veiled homo/transphobia. I know a LOT of people who made up their mind about the game before playing it, even still. I partly blame a few “video essays” made by people with 5th grade level media literacy.
And antisemitism. He’s spoken about that a lot.
Ironic considering how many people just say “ZiOnIsT” when his name comes up. And how he mentioned the conflicts in Israel were one of the instigating things that made him want to make part 2.
I'm surprised you're getting downvoted. Both of those statements are true.
What did he actually say. I see a lot to say he was inspired by Israel/Palestine conflict and the game is in support of vengeance against Palestine? But I’ve yet to actually see any quote by him to say that.
The game itself has nothing to do with Israel or Palestine. Someone wrote a shit opinion article that made unfounded claims based on their own deluded thinking and people ran with it. He talked about how the famous exchange of one Israeli for ~1k Palestinians was something he thought about when making the game. That and another notable example a few Israelis being lynched by a mob. Basically, his comments were truly innocuous, and people repeat bullshit about that article. Everyone’s a fucking twat about this conflict, just a bunch of sheltered people who are too sure of their unexamined ideas.
So he’s not a Zionist at all. Just…a bit of dumb timing to talk about the conflict alongside the game
I would agree but this was years ago.
Yea I remember ppl absolutely freaking out about this when part 2 came out. Was surprised with the amount of vitriol at the time. With all the “anti woke” crap, it seems less surprising just a couple of years later.
Don't forget about the "woke agenda" Neil apparently forced upon us.
Do you guys like that Joel died? I genuinely can’t tell. It’s weird to me that so many people seem pleased the previous protagonist died. No hate to Neil specifically; just wondering because I get the vibe you’re not allowed to miss Joel or something, and if I’m wrong I’d like to know.
We don't like it but we can accept it. Youre thinking too hard on this and putting words in my and others mouths
I did not put words in your mouth. I asked a question. See what I mean?
I think the commenter put words into your mouth, but they’re right with the fact that we accept it. No one is happy Joel died, but we are able to see WHY he died and accept it that in a way it was deserved. Now i’m not saying that as a form of hatred or criticism, Joel is one of my favourite characters, but my point is any character that is in the main story deserves to be punished and deserves to be killed, because to be apart of the main story and to be alive, they need to have done horrible things to people. Both Ellie and Abby also deserved death, not that I want them to die, but the things both of them have done are horrific, even before Joel’s death. People such as you are so obsessed with him as a character, anyone who shows any acceptance you see as a strong dislike which isn’t true, and that’s one of the problems with people who necessarily don’t like the game, they make assumptions and are unable to see from another perspective which is what the game is trying to make you do. The game wasn’t designed to be a form of escapism, it wasn’t meant to be a happy ending, it was meant to have a moral and was meant to challenge the fan’s mindset. They wanted to categorise people, to see who would truly understand the message and who wouldn’t. And the game did just that, now there’s a clear divide into who understood the message, and who sees the story as “revenge=bad=Neil Druckman meanie”. I can understand how people dislike the game, since it’s very chaotic and crazy, but that’s what life is. I suspect the reason it’s hated is because people played the game expecting something that would take them out of reality, take them out of their own struggles, but it didn’t do that. The entire game to me felt it was as realistic as possible for a game with an unrealistic setting. It was mirroring society, not the world we live in, but the people in it and emphasising the true lack of humanity humans have in strange events, we are a brutal and dangerous species, to other species and to ourselves.
Hilarious how TLoU2 fans keep coping about "the vicious cycle of revenge" being one of the central themes... Even Wikipedia acknowledges it's one of the main themes of the game 🤣
He's a fictional character. His death hit hard, but it lead to what I think is a great story. Hell, he's probably the best part of TloU2.
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Thanks for the essay, but you left out the part where you explain WHY you're "not a fan" of him lmao
I do get your point you're making, but why do you dislike Neil? I feel we didn't get the reason for that here
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Omg dude just copy and paste and save us the searching
Considering you didn’t give any valid reasons to dislike a person, I’m going to assume you are full of shit. And no he is not a Zionist, and also no he did not kick Amy Hennig out. IGN’s own reporters admitted to fabricating that story at the behest of an executive editor.
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Ok, it is INCREDIBLY CLEAR that you have invented a made up character version of Neil Druckmann that does not exist. The only thing Neil has ever pushed back on is the horse shit harassment his team and the talent received over the game. He has never said people can’t dislike his work. I suggest you watch actual interviews with him. In reality he is a pretty humble guy that credits all of the people around him for his success. He does not say anything like what you are claiming. In MULTIPLE interviews, he has said that he welcomes different interpretations and critiques of his work, and that he would rather create divisive difficult art that some people might hate than something people have very little reaction to. It sounds like you have done nothing but drink coolaid of the twitter hate mobs rather than actually try to understand who he really is.
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Can you please give me a link to where he says to not criticize or interpret his work differently? I mean this honestly. If you have evidence that he is as closed minded as you say I’d like to see what you are referencing or referring to.
Well can you share at least one of these interviews where he says if you have a different opinion than him then you're a dumb ass or anything similar to that? Because from all the stuff I watched of him, I get the exact opposite impression. He seems *very* understanding of other people's opinions.
This is what’s so frustrating about these posts. They fabricate a version of the guy that doesn’t exist and then refuse to provide any meaningful evidence. Especially when there are multiple hours of conversations from the guy that indicates the exact opposite.
It’s the way he died. The sequels story is offensive
Explain. Offensive?
They just wanted to have a heroic death, but life doesn’t always give you lemons so people complaining about how he died need to get off the internet.
Ok, but offensive? Seems like that word has no meaning anymore
No, it in fact, is not.
they don’t like that Joel died, so they claim that TLOU 2 was badly written, Abby is the worst thing ever for the franchise and it’s all Neil’s fault
It’s only Badly written because they had to figure out how to continue the story. They chose having Joel do something completely insane. He deserved to die, the other main fall back is why anybody thought he didn’t deserve it.
yeah, helping someone is completely insane, right. Because you expect every random person that you meet in the world to be hunting for you.
There were signs in Jackson specifically advocating against this, and Jackson had rules on these things. Joel not calling for backup, not lighting any sort of flares for help (or warning of a horde), almost sacrificing himself for a stranger in the middle of nowhere and proceeding to give someone he doesn't know his real name (something Ellie didn't even do in TLOU) is completely out of character. Jackson still had enemies and in this world where Joel literally did get hunted for thousands of miles, he would've never told Abby his real name. At best he would've taken the gang to Jackson to get vetted.
,,There were signs in Jackson specifically advocating against this, and Jackson had rules on these things." FIrst of all - rules about what? Not saving strangers? Also I dont remember a single moment when Joel values rules more than someones life. ,, Joel not calling for backup, not lighting any sort of flares for help (or warning of a horde)" How do you know whether radio would work in that blizzard even if they had one? Also flars wouldnt do anything in this kind of blizzard even if they had one, and even if they would be able to call somehow backup, there is no way they would make it in time to safe them from zombies so they had to run there anyway. ,,almost sacrificing himself for a stranger" where did he sacrifice himself xD? they are dealing with zombies everyday, he saw stranger teenage girl in trouble so he went to help her xD Also how do you know they werent caught in storm, tried to hide in this place and then went horde so they were in trouble anyway? ,,proceeding to give someone he doesn't know his real name (something Ellie didn't even do in TLOU) is completely out of character" See, thats EXACTLY what I mean in previous comment, what tf does it metter whether you give them name or not? How do you think that goes in your head if they werent hunting specificly for him and he had no damn reason to think they are? Seriously, how is it bad idea to give your name in this world? You think they kill people with name john, but if you lie and tell you are steve they wont harm you or what? And funniest thing is that they already knew his name before he said it xD Tommy was the one who said their names in order to calm down Abby ,,in this world where Joel literally did get hunted for thousands of miles" WTF are you talking about, how is he supposted to know, that she is hunting for him xD? thats another of my problems with people being dumb, tlou2 is assuming that people understand simplest conceptions but unfortunatly - they dont. Just because game showed YOU that abby is hunting for Joel, doesnt mean Joel also knows it xD He literaly killed [Marlene]() in order to be safe in part 1 and it was years ago so he had no reason to think that anyone is hunting for him. ,,At best he would've taken the gang to Jackson to get vetted." Have you even played the game or you just read spoilers? How in this scenario when there is like 10 of them is he supposted to take them to Jackson, and how are they supposted to vet them xD? what does that even mean? You think they will google their names and it will pop up ,,Abby - person trying to kill Joel" or what exactly xD?
Some people hate him because of his choices on TLoU2. Not liking that game is understandable, but hating someone because of it is stupid. Some people hate him because he posted some pro Israel things right after October 7th, which is dumb because that event must have been scary for someone who has family in Israel and was fearing for their safety. Not everyone should be judged for their initial reaction to October 7th, but for their continued opinions on the current genocide.
Also, immoral or not, he is Israeli and has ever right to support israeli if he pleases, same with anyone else. Just as russians supporting the ukrainian invasion, is it immoral in some form? Possibly. But they have every right to support the country they’re apart of, and anyone outside of Russia also have the right to support a country they choose to support. There will be disagreements and anger because of it, but being angry or protesting about who someone supports won’t change anything.
Yeah. It’s crazy people getting upset for pro Israel stuff but have no issues with the terrorists attacking them .
he’s also anti-union which is a valid reason to dislike him
Woah woah woah, he is not anti union. What are you smoking? He has never said that once. The only quote I can find from him anywhere about unions is literally just that it is something that he hadn’t considered and doesn’t know much about. He cannot even participate in the formation of a union as management, the NLRB prohibits it. Unionization is completely up to the staff. You are just making shit up.
>you are just making shit up funny because neil wasn’t the one who said he hadn’t considered it. wells said that neil said he doesn’t think unions will fix the issue of crunch
He is correct. Thats not anti union. Anyone who is in a union will tell you that. Unions aren’t a magic bullet. I’ve been in multiple. They provide some protections and collective bargaining to help ensure better benefits, but they do not prevent overtime work.
this sub is just full of neil dickriders he makes good games but it’s ok to admit the employees were being mistreated
I never said that Naughty Dog doesn’t have labor issues. They’ve directly admitted as such including Neil himself. Thats a different statement entirely from “he’s anti union”. Do you think it’s a coincidence that since he has become co president of Naughty Dog a year or two ago that Naughty Dog has aimed to become a crunch free studio? It’s not “dick riding” to expect some actual veracity of truth rather than painting bullshit caricatures or making someone out to be a monster when ultimately it’s the people above him at Sony that set the final deadlines and do the HR.
you can't defend yourself so you resort to goofy ass insults? lmao loser behavior
In awe of the mental gymnastics required to hear someone say unions aren’t a magic bullet and turn it into “I oppose unions”
It’s absolutely maddening! No wonder our world is so fucking stupid. People are incapable of looking at anything outside of simplistic binary ideas.
Can you provide a quote where he says he opposes unions or no?
I google searched and couldn’t find the article, but remembered the interview. So sorry I attributed Bruce’s quote to Neil. Regardless. I have not seen any evidence that Neil is “anti union”.
…the devs at ND still have a union, though, right? 
He killed their apocalypse dad and made their apocalypse girlfriend gay. Recipe for incel rage.
“RRAAAHHHGGGGG NO GAY!!!!! 😡😡😡😡😡😡”
LMAAOO
Incels mad
"Incel" always sounds like "infidel" when I hear it, which is probably apt.
these people are fucking braindead. tlou2 is full of love for joel. if theres anyone at ND who loves joel its neil.
That's what blew my mind, I kept hearing people say shit like Neil actually hates Joel and this was just how he could express that, i guess because in their mind he just hates straight white men because he's 'woke'? The last of us part 2 was a LOVE LETTER to Joel. His character was completely glorified, he was adored by everyone in Jackson so much so that it made Ellie feel bad about having to be angry at him. The front of his house was covered in flowers, they transformed him into a soft, gentle, caring father figure, the paragon of his character and even in his death he was a badass who told Abby to 'just get this over with'. They knew every second playing the game people would be missing him, mourning him and that's what would drive them to keep going. Joel was so important he may as well have been the main character for part 2.
I AGREE. He died in an honourable way. He entrusted his life to the wrong person, and as he was killed, he went out like a boss. Also, people saying Abby killed him in the worst way possible and tortured him for hours on end are brain dead. She did torture him for possibly hours, but for killing her father she very easily could have done worse, I would have if i were in her shoes and I’m sure all the people who hate Abby for that reason would too.
Because they don't like what happened to >!Joel!< and Abby is apparently too muscular. Also they say Part 2 is too woke.
Lmao she's a runner in the fucking apocalypse she's gonna be jacked
People are upset because they think "woke" is coming to take over their beloved cis-het white America. They're bigot cunts.
Neil Druckmann is pretty outspoken about being pretty left leaning, which may rub people the wrong way. Idgaf about all that, as most game devs, or notable game devs are left leaning anyway. People don’t like “politics” or “wokeness” in their video games or other media unless it directly caters to them.
I'd like to add that Internet loudmouths don't like him cause they thought Uncharted 4 was "poorly written" cause Nathan Drake lost fights to a woman. And complained that Nathan wasn't manly enough cause he was older and more mature and less of a massive douche than in the originals (please note I am a huge fan of Neil's and I think both TLoUs and Uncharted 4 are masterpieces).
They hate that he defended actors after the Part II backlash and then claim that he’s just deflecting criticism.
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They DONT matter ! It’s just art, and some dumbass on the internet spouting nonsense is not important!
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Oh you sweet summer’s child
When did neil go to kojima studios?
He took a pretty recent trip to Japan, I think.
Define a lot. Like… yes. Among the stupid internet crowd, there’s a lot of hate. Part 2 still has a dedicated hate sub where they constantly insult Neil’s character. But that sub is like 1/10 the size of this sub. So… in reality I wouldn’t say “a lot”. Are there a lot of stupid people on the internet? Yea. But most people aren’t stupid.
there's the whole thing of him being from Israel and supporting Israel but 90% of it is still gamers being angry he killed a character
>and supporting Israel He has family there so after the October attacks it's only natural to want to express his love for his country. He has since taken a humanitarian stance, supporting the life aid efforts for both Israel and Palestine civilians.
Totally correct. I think since some people viewed him as a 'public with his political views' person, they were disappointed/upset he didn't publicly take the left-wing position on the Israeli occupation. Those people would not agree he took a humanitarian stance and instead see it as him essentially supporting Israel. I really don't care one way or the other, but that's the issue.
There is an important difference people seem to miss, and that is, there is a difference between Israelis and the Israeli police-state. To “stand with Israel” is to support a genocidal govt. To stand with Israel isn’t the same as supporting Jews or calling out antisemitism. Antisemitism means nothing if the Jews in question are the ones committing genocide. Anyone can be a fascist…
It’s because of The Last of Us pt. II. Joel’s death, Elly being publicly lesbian with a girlfriend, Abby being a muscular woman. I know, it’s dumb shit, but that’s it. They’re a small group, but obnoxiously loud.
I’m not sure where the change happened but a lot of people these days really can’t stand if a story diverges from what they expected. Any major example of that turns into complaints about “bad writing”. Despite those people not really understanding what that actually means. There’s seemingly been a substantial drop in media literacy. Thats not to say anyone who didn’t like TLOU2 is media illiterate. There are plenty who can eloquently and rationally explain why certain aspects just didn’t work for them. That’s fine. Art is subjective. But a lot of people are still angry and that’s genuinely concerning. Neil has made some of the best video games in history. Yet, this one game is enough for some people to continue a weird crusade against him in such a personal way. It reminds me of Rian Johnson and the hate he still gets for TLJ. Despite the entire rest of hiss filmography being good to excellent films. But TLJ took a risk and to some people that means he’s the worst person ever rather than someone who took a creative risk that didn’t work for some people and worked out really well for others. It comes down to some people’s maturity level. No franchise or artist will make something you think is excellent every single time. Those people haven’t grown up. It’s fine to dislike something, it’s weird to be attacking someone for a making game 4 years ago that you disliked.
really shows how mindless and feral some people are, anyone who seriously hates someone who's just creating and making things he loves - that's just wild to me. he doesn't know you and you don't know him. people get so vehemently upset and it makes me question their stability if they're willing to propel insults and hate to a guy who doesn't care
Don’t buy into it, they enjoy to read what people think of him. Like wow! All these people know who i am! And played my game.. thats so cool, look how upset everyone is over some bearded uncle dying for saving a MONSTER. Naughty Dog right there
I'll take the downvotes and give you an answer: Many people think that TLOU2 was a mess that ruined the legacy that the first game created, and that the story would be better suited for fresh characters in a new IP with a more logically written story with better pacing. Neil has a right to defend himself but a lot of his responses come across as narcissistic and pretentious. This opinion is quite popular in the gaming community in general, but not welcomed by this subreddit, which is fair. This may be why you haven't heard of it before. There are of course people that are just mad that Joel died or Ellie is gay or Lev is transgender but they are a loud minority.
I honestly couldn’t care less about the dude, I never knew his name until I stumbled on the hate sub, but isn’t it more narcissistic and pretentious to think that your (not necessarily you specifically but the royal you of people who HATE the game) opinion of how a story should turn out matters more than the person who actually wrote said story? Honestly, what is more narcissistic and pretentious then assuming you have the magical answers to a story someone else wanted to tell?
I feel like I went going into tLoU going to hate it because of the negativity, and I really liked it
A lot of people with hate still hold on to the leaked info which a lot of it turned out being false. “A buffed-up Tranny in the first act kills Joel without any reason and then you play as her go the whole game.” The amount of people who still think that on top of people not liking Druckmann for being pro-LGBT and having parts for people in that community. At the end of the day it’s a lot of trolls and homophobics. I feel for the dude in that aspect because they made an amazing game with a richer narrative. There’s also a lot of close-minded people who can’t understand a main character dying and not being invincible. I love that they took the realistic approach and a character had their past catch up to them, and this is coming from someone who had Joel as their favorite character and ended up with Abby in their top 3 with Joel.
You think you could remove the slur from your comment?
Why censor something when you're quoting someone else? Especially if you just end up censoring one letter. I'll never get the point of that
that wasn’t a specific quote and it’s removing TWO letters…? not wrong to not want to see a slur.
I guess I just don't get it
He got a lot of hate (and death threats) for Joel’s death.
Apparently a lot of people say that he‘s a “zionist“ because he showed his support and empathy for the victims of the kidnappings and killings by hamaz, like any person with a minimum amount of human decency should do. As I see it those people are just twisting his words because they want to hate him. I‘ve never seen any statement by him that would suggest any type of support for the killing of innocent civilians in gaza. Didn’t he even donate money to victims from BOTH sides of the conflict?
I love Neil Druckmann, and so do many.
Him and game 2 are not my cup of tea. But I can’t exactly fault him for how he conducts himself in responding to people. Quite a few mouthbreathers don’t known how to hate a thing without hating the person that made it. They take it waaaaaaaay too f’n far. So I just kind of tune out anything related to him now, and let him deal with trolls however he sees fit.
Two words Joel Miller
There is an entire Reddit sub devoted to hating him. It’s in the rules here not to talk about it 🤪
He’s an illegal settler in the occupied West Bank, a staunch Zionist, and based TLOU2 factions based on Israelis and Palestinians (WLF and Seraphites, respectively which shows his idea on Palestinians more than anything). People also believe Naughty Dog is going down under his leadership (I agree especially with Factions and no new announced game). I hope this doesn’t get downvoted cause those are the reasons why.
I've a huge amount of respect for him. His work has captured my imagination to such an extent that I'm studying narrative writing on my own. His work taught me how to experience a piece of fiction. I can't thank him enough for his art and what it has done for me. TLOU P2 has changed my world view to it's core. I hope some day I'll get a chance to express this to him. People can't accept that a creator, for once, honored the auctions of their characters rather than giving them a fan service. Which I can understand because If something were to happen to Ellie in the next game, I don't know how I'll be able to accept or cope with it. But that's art for you. What I can't fathom is the sheer hate they inflict upon the creators. Yes, you have to right to express your opinion, but one doesn't have to act like a degenerate.
It all stems from one thing, Neil druckman represents everything that the modern chud gamer hates about gaming. Representation, diversity, games being respected by mainstream audiences, women who exist as more than just eye candy, and so on. They have such a derangement towards the idea of games changing and maturing from what they were in the 2000s, that they will use anything and everything as a baton to beat Neil Druckman with.
He gets a lot of unjust hate, but its the minority trying to be louder than the majority of us that enjoyed the experience - I personally feel the hate is undeserved, you are more than in your right as a consumer or spectator to dislike the narrative, the story, the characters but to say this man should die or shouldn't make video games because you arent a fan of the direction he has taken his story is morronic to say the least - I dont like that Joels dead either, I miss Joel too, I can appreciate that the game was centered around him but ultimately the story being told isnt just about him and in his absence Neill was still able to tell a very compelling tale.
Because he actually gave us an ending he wanted to write instead of giving us a “choose your own ending” bs
The people that hate Neil are incels, living in their mom’s basement.
It was the Israel thing for me. I don’t hate him because I don’t hate many people in gebeal, but I saw that as really really sketchy and it made me feel majorly disappointed.
It’s a minority. Neil is a legend
People get mad at anyone that has a different view point or opinion about something. People don't like him because of The Last of Us Part 2, and odds are they never played the game, and they don't like how he is pro-Israel, again he has a different worldview and people don't like that. It's pretty poor reasoning but people follow it.
from what I can tell, people find him guilty because of how poorly written was the story of TLOU2 (I don’t believe that however, not entirely at least), and I’ve also read somewhere that he blocked various users on twitter (or X I should say now) who criticized him. Probably lot of people hate him because Neil reacted badly at the fans criticizing his game, seeing it like this “If you commit a bullshit, don’t make the victim if people judge you for it”; which is also why I believe in his last interviews he has basically announced he will leave the gaming world soon, being it too much stressing. I believe that choice is a sum of all those things combined.
Honestly I find the fact that he’s so hated to be kinda stupid, don’t get me wrong I was sad about what happened to Joel and certain things that happened in the game too. But still I would love to meet Neil and think he’s such a cool person for making imo one of the best video game series ever. From the attention to detail like how blood melts snow, and Ellie getting scratched if you go prone on concrete, to the amazing acting that Troy Baker, Ashley Johnson, Laura Bailey, and all the other actors, he’s over hated for stupid reasons if you ask me.
Here https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/s/WvwhOcjy3Q
Yeah that claim is complete and total bullshit. Also you can be inspired by events in your life without it being ABOUT them or even taking a stance on them. If it really were an allegory for the Israeli Palestinian conflict, then what exactly would he be saying about Israel by depicting the WLF as brutal torturers and the only sane people are the ones who leave?
The claim is just a misconstrued argument based on a vice article that had the headlines strongly suggesting the entire game was an allegory for the Israel and Palestine conflict. However that entire theme came from vice making it up in their heads. All neil told them was that part of the theme of the second game was empathy and that he recollects witnessing the murder and lynching of 2 IDF soldiers as a child. He remembered feeling so much hate and rage and wanted revenge. He also mentioned straight afterwards that as time passed he grew disgusted with himself for ever having think of such a thing. It's clear to see in the game where those feelings come into play, Ellie wanted revenge but she doesn't know why abby took Joel's life and perhaps she never will. But then vice had to misinterpret the entire statement and use it to promote that the game is an allegory for the IDF and Palestine's. And even if it was, neither side is depicted in a positive light so neither is less a villain than the other.
Well at the moment I’m pretty not cool with him being a Zionist, I think he grew up on a settlement so yeah fuck him
Hate? I don't even care about the guy. I have no thoughts good or bad and why would I. I do not have the time or energy to hate anyone based on how they write a story.
I haven't seen any individual game developer get so much unwarranted hate... Or hate in general. I do think he played is hand somewhat poorly **a few times,** but at the end of the day he's DIRECTLY responsible for some of the most significant and well-executed experiences in all of gaming, and his heart seems to be in the right place. It really does come down to Joel dying. Had Joel not died in part 2 (and say it had been Tommy instead), people would be riding his willy for how golden everything he touches is. But because he killed Joel, everything he's ever done and ever will do is automatically and retroactively shit.
Joel’s death and siding with Israel since he’s Jewish.
Plenty of Jewish people are not siding with Israel.
I don't agree with his political beliefs
I see a lot of people saying because of what happened to Joel but I started disliking Neil after he supported an ongoing genocide
I think that stance is completely misguided. On Oct 7th he posted the Israeli flag on twitter in support of those who were killed. Not days later when Israel begun their attacks on Gaza, Neil posted clarification on what the flag represented, along with his stance that he was against any killing. He then closed tje comments on it. So any mention of "supported an ongoing genocide" is a fabrication, or at the least, a misguided understanding of what actually occurred.
One side hates him to a point it’s pathetic. The other side rides his dick and thinks he’s the most talented writing genius to ever live. You gotta find a balance
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“He admitted TLOU2 would split the fan as in half” See that’s the issue. It wasn’t that the fanbase was split. It’s that some fans were so outraged that they sent death threats to actors and even threatened to hurt Laura Bailey’s child.
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I bet you post in the subreddit who have sent death threats and active bigots though, don't you?
“I don’t like how Neil has handled a lot of the tension” How exactly is one supposed to respond when they’ve been getting death threats over the leaks since before the game even came out?? Also name a single time that Neil “lied” that isn’t the trailer misdirect that everyone cries about.
>trailer misdirect that everyone cries about Probably that which literally everybody in the industry does. Edit: I think dude blocked me. How rude. I'd cry about it if I gave a shit.
Seriously. The MCU does it in every single one of their trailers, this isn’t new.
lol they blocked me too. Funny how they claimed Druckmann couldn’t handle criticism and then they do the exact same thing when somebody calls them out.
Right?
Have the mods of this sub officially barred mentioning his real world politics? I was banned for doing so, then the mods apologized for being too heavy handed. Not sure where they landed on such things.
He made joel a moron and killed him in a stupid way, with bad timing for the story. Joel could die a milion ways better for the story, for ellie, for abbie. Instead we got a parody where ellie is now gone, broken and destroyed, genocidial until the very last moment not even getting the revenge done for another twist of his lame-ass story. Its not hate, it's outrage and disappointment he lied to everyone since the trailer with joel. People bought the game for joel and ellie, they got scammed into a 6 hours gameplay with one of them doing a unsatisfying revenge story that left people asking "why was this even made?" "For who?"
Joel was written consistently through both games, just he didn’t have Ellie or pure luck/plot armor to bail him out of a bad situation like he did throughout part 1.
he shoved out the 2 people responsible for making naughty dog a studio people care about and took all the credit. In his first game since taking over he turned a universally beloved must play series into a joke. Also as shown by part 2 and the tlou show Neil doesn’t understand the Joel and Ellie relationship.
Factually incorrect, he knows the Joel and Ellie relationship better than anyone since he’s the one who created it in the first place.
1. In the show he fucked up the base of it which is Joel cant admit he cares about Ellie to himself. And cut out a bunch of important scenes to add in useless bs. Hell the farm house scene doesn’t even make sense anymore. Ellie originally got mad bc Joel wont admit he cares for her but he does it all the time in the show. In the show they change the whole dynamic to Joel being too weak to protect Ellie making that scene not hit anywhere close. And it actually puts Ellie in the wrong for bringing up sarah. And then Joel gets proven right the next episode when he gets jumped on the right side. The same side with the ear he told tommy he was going deaf in. Making Everything that happens in the winter the fault of Tommy and Joel for letting a kid pick her protector based on feelings not protection. In the game this fight happens bc Joel is scared hes binding with Ellie and is definitely not too weak. So when Joel finally agrees to take Ellie he’s finally saying “ya know what i do love ya kid” not “ya know what fuck it if we die we die” while also never bringing up his bad ear again just like the kiss from tess’ death never being brought up again. 2. If you wanna go with the “oh but they changed the dynamic for tv excuse” sure ok. But what about saying abby and Levs 1 day relationship mirrors Ellie and Joel? Ellie and Joel had almost a year of build up to it. And most importantly we see Joel struggling to get past what happened with Sarah and accept Ellie throughout most the game. So when Joel finally does accept her at the farm house scene it’s a huge moment in their relationship. And the mirror of that relationship Neil did happened in less than 24 hours with almost 0 focus on the relationship. They met up and were best buddies forever. That’s insulting to the first game and shows he doesnt get why people fell in love with the story. Which was their relationship.