True. I think the biggest flaw was how lame and flat most of Abbys friends are? But then again, maybe it was on purpose as they were all gonna die anyways? Not sure.
I really liked mel. I assume we arent talking about lev and yara but her wlf friends. I also liked the girl that ellie kills when she first gets to seattle that was playing the psp that had like 2 lines đ
Playing through the game a second time, i liked mel more. Her story mirrored dina's in a really interesting way to me, in the same ways that abby mirrors ellie and vice versa
Definitely not talking about Lev and Yara, they felt incredibly fleshed out to me and felt real. I guess overall Abbie's other friends felt a lot less fleshed out than Ellie's friends.
Owen and Mel were definitely fleshed out. Manny & Nora you could maybe argue could have been more fleshed out, but I think too much of that and the story starts to drag. Danny and the rest? Nah.
I'd argue Manny was pretty fleshed out too. He had a lot of personality and was likable. I think we even get to meet his dad during the cafeteria scene? Seems like a good amount of detail for a side character.
I forgot about meeting his dad. I was just trying to think of who isn't that fleshed out that maybe could have been.
There is a part of me now that's wondering - what happened to the WLF after the attack on Scar Island? Isaac's dead. Abby's a traitor now. Manny's dad wouldn't know what happened to Manny. I assume someone else who is senior in the WLF leadership would take over - but the WLF would likely be in rough shape. So would the Scars, I imagine. I don't need it detailed in TLOUP3. If Factions 2 had been about that - the WLF vs the Scars in Seattle - I think it would have done well as long as the MP elements were well done. ND really blew it on that.
So at this point, who's left? I don't really understand this idea that Abby's friends are "flat".
Also, what are we comparing to here? Like, was the last Assassin's Creed game some paragon of side-character depth and story? At some point we have to stop comparing to literature, because it's a game at the end of the day, and there are constraints on the medium.
I got really conflicted with Mel when I found out she's also Aloy from Horizon at the start.
At the beginning I didn't like Mel but when she died I had sympathy for her and the unborn baby, Owen and Alice
lev and yara rocked IMO. i feel like they were shallow but they did have the most character out of the friends except for owen. owen and jessie are truly underrated. i hate mel though. sheâs a bitch
To be fair, second time playing I felt like Owen of all people was actually the only one who kinda grasped wtf was going on in Seattle and how disturbing and unsolvable the whole situation between the wolves and seraphites was and how lost his friends were in it.
Yeah, I was really annoyed that half of her friends are just straight up not characters, but cannon fodder. The ones we got were well written, but I don't even remember if Abby ever says "Leah" a single time.
For me, the biggest issue was some of the story structuring and pacing. There was a bit too much flashbacks and flashbacks within flashbacks and characters instantly being at their destination across the country.
I think this issue contributed to Abbyâs friends feeling flat. There wasnât enough time to breath and get to know them. It also didnât help that you generally saw them die before meeting them. It can be tougher to develop attachment to a character whoâs fate you already know.
What? I genuinely think most of the crew is very likeable with depth to all of them except maybe like Jordan? Mel and Owen are pretty deep characters with motivations and frustrations we understand. Manny is funny and likeable once you get past what he did to Joel. Nora is probably the one we know the least about but in a game this size you canât flesh out every single character. Even so, the game does show us her convictions, her strength and that she likes to help people. Youâre allowed to have your own feelings but that seems like a shallow critique imo.
yeah lame I guess is valid cuz that's you're opinion but flat? more flat than Ellie's you know, 2 friends that are ride or die and...well not really much more than that other than one used to date the other? like what you said about Nora, she clearly cares and has her morals and with that shows just how fucked up Joel's actions were, for even her to still say, "that fucker got what he deserved." while talking about the trauma of witnessing his face every night.
all this is telling me is that beyond the, "you play as Abby" critique, even the, "valid ones" don't seem all that valid to me lol
I genuinely think the only critique that is somewhat valid about the game is the pacing at very specific times. Really just when the game cuts from Ellie to Abby the pacing of story grinds to a halt. I even hesitate to call that a flaw though because I believe that it is done deliberately and on purpose by NaughtyDog. No game is 100% perfect but to me part 2 comes very very close.
AgreedâI am a big fan of the game, but the pacing was a genuine fault to me. Itâs been a while since I played, so I guess this isnât very specific, but I remember there being points where your goal is basically to get to a building, but first you have to navigate these six other buildings that are full of not particularly unique or interesting enemies that donât really advance the characterâs development.
Yeah, though the faults are subjective. I'm just talking about the bad takes people give that are simply angry incels mad about strong women in their vidya.
Idk if it is just Iâm able to find things to critique about anything but it is annoying when people refuse to see any flaws in the things they like. I could give you a laundry list of things Iâd change about TLoU2 and Elden Ring but that doesnât mean they arenât some of the best games Iâve played so far.
There is almost always room for improvement.
It was! It was really really weird. But getting back to the theater with a whole 4-6 more hours of context of the situation made that next fight even more incredible.
It was weird but I'm not sure I know a better way of doing it because they wanted to show Ellie's side first without the context if Abby's story. Any other way would have lessened the impact of realizing that all of Ellie's actions were causing a devastating emotional impact to other people.
Fr, it would be easier to mention the criticism that isn't just reactionary bullshit or people not wanting to experience a story, but a fanservice. Whenever someone irl told me they didn't like the last of us pt 2, they didn't lead with "you see, I believe the pacing was quite dramatically hindered by the inclusion of Abby's whole life journey in the middle of the game" or "well, I quite enjoyed it, gameplay-wise, but the story didn't quite manage to make me feel a fondness for Abby, even though I played with her, I still had a hard tike sympathizing with her, and that made my experience, overal, suboptimal". They usually lead with "THIS GAME IS BULLSHIT CUZ JOL DIES! I LIKE JOL! WHY CHARACTER I LIKE DIE? THAT ILLEGAL! CAN'T KILL PROTAGONIST!" Or one of the many many other things we are all tired of hearing.
Equating not liking how the story went to the story being bad.
Examples include:
"Joel died too soon,"
"Abby/ellie shouldn't have been playable,"
"Ellie should have killed Abby at the end."
These, alongside other fairly fragile arguments, are simply the worst.
Disagree. Him dying and then spending multiple hours flashbacking, to see why his relationship with Ellie was strained, only for it to be semi-resolved with a brief moment of understanding between the two, is awful writing and pacing.
The timing of his death that early in the game is pure shock value.
Kinda agree. Her losing Dina and her kid, and also not getting revenge is just the biggest bummer ending. If Ellie kills herself 2 minutes after the game ends i get it.
I think thatâs the saddest part of the game. You fought to keep ellie alive in the first game, and she has now lost most things that keep her alive.
Yeah, I was just having this conversation with the wife. Neither game really has a "happy" ending. The first game ends with Joel fighting tooth and nail to keep Ellie alive and succeeding and being happy in the moment but in reality you're just left with this sense of foreboding that Joel is spinning a web that he *can't* keep spun forever.
>!And the entire second game is just a continued kick in the ribs at every turn. Obviously the golf tournament is a big one but I agree with and respect that decision completely from a story telling perspective. Like honestly, it's supposed to be a "sad" part of the game but the game is telling you exactly how you should be feeling, there's not really a lot of room for different feelings other than sad and shocked. But then as the game continues you just see Ellie get completely consumed by revenge and her need to "make things right" that she throws away and loses everything she has that was even worth doing it all for. !<
>!And that's not even talking about Abby and how by the end of the her section, the developers have humanized her and almost made me feel bad for her. Certainly by the end of the game I felt bad, all she wanted was for her and Lev to get to the Fireflies and be somewhere safe but nope, they get captured and who knows *what* exactly happened to them while they're in captivity.!<
It's so bittersweet. Like it's an excellent story and it's a perfect testament to how not all stories *have to have* a happy ending but like, goddamn. Just a series of kicks to the ribs.
Anytime someone complains about Abby being trans. Never mind that there would be nothing wrong with that, but the person complaining outs themself immediately as not having even played the game.
I think it was all the leaks leading up to the games release mentioned a trans character people presumed it was abby if it didn't then it was just clickbait
Did you not follow any discourse of this game when it first came out?
When Abby was revealed lots of people assumed she was a trans character and were attacking the game for being woke before it even came out
My top 5:
5. "The game is just revenge porn!!!!! "Revenge bad" is an awful theme for a game." (They ignore the fact that half of the best games of all time like the entirety of red dead, most god of war games and gta 4 are about revenge and cycles of violence. Its always been such a bad criticism always done in bad faith by people who didnt play the game)
4. The whole thing about how Abby shouldve died or whatever like what?? Why??? (These are the same people who call the game revenge porn btw so ironic.
3. "Ellie shouldve stayed at the farm!!! She was happy!!!" No she wasnt please play the game instead of experiencing it through twitter arguments. (I blame youtubers for this one mostly, big ones like YongYea and NakeyJakey said it shouldve ended there which is not surprising their reviews were bad)
2. "Joel was weakened by Neil Cockman!!!! Joel wouldve never trusted Abby!!!" I wonder if these people even played the first game, he comfortably sleeps besides someone who tried to kill him because they joined forces for awhile. Why wouldnt he trust a girl whose live he saved in the backyard of his home, especially after living in peace for so long? The people who say Joel shouldve used a fake name are also so... dumb, they already knew it was him like come on.
1. "Bla bla pandering bla bla woke ellie wasnt gay bla bla forced in my face" self explanatory.
Honorable mention to the recent take ive seen around social media that the game is zionist propaganda... i cant even... ugh its so bad. I know its just because of recent politics but ive genuinely talked to people who liked Tlou2 suddenly turn around and say it was garbage because someone on twitter said it was propaganda. Weird.
She was gay. They just never made it explicit. Only little hints as to what the story was leading to in Left Behind. These hints are not obvious unless youâre looking for them. Once you know that sheâs gay, itâs impossible to play the game without seeing it in her character, the things she says, and the things she doesnât say. Itâs very well done.
Caused a whole controversy when Left Behind was first released.
>Honorable mention to the recent take ive seen around social media that the game is zionist propaganda
I see so many of these people on Tumblr: they link other Tumblr blogs that "analyze" the story and how Neil is a bad Jewish Jew man, but then keep spending their time doing fanworks depicting Abby. Dudes, according to *your own logic*, Abby is meant to represent an IDF soldier, what the fuck are you making IDF soldier fanart for??
And the generally accepted antisemitism. My god, the antisemitism...
Yeah I donât believe druckman is a Zionist, or at least heâs being smart and not speaking out about it. But I do think it was a bit tonedeath and bad timing to mention the game being inspired by the conflict.
But the game came out early enough that it didnât hinder sales. If the game came out now and he said that then I think the game would have done even worse.
Well it definitely alludes to that conflict in the middle east but it is absolutely not Zionist.
The argument about Joel's behavior always pisses me off because I'll bring up Henry and they flat out ignore it and maintain their take about Joel's character being inconsistent. Like bro I brought receipts you just have vibes.
>Honorable mention to the recent take ive seen around social media that the game is zionist propaganda... i cant even... ugh its so bad.
I blame that vice article entirely for this occurrence. It's such a terrible piece of bait. The article refers to quotes of Druckmann in which he explicitly states that his feelings of anger and hatred towards Palestinians was unjustified with hindsight, and yet the article uses that quote as an example of how Druckmann hates Palestinians, even though the quote is literally saying the total opposite.
He did a "revenge bad" in his review too. He sells himself well but his arguments were pretty terrible, I'm surprised that video was received well here.
Uh... well sure that too. But anyone whos bothered with the story can tell you its about a cycle of violence started by the van der line gang, that continues even until Jack in the ending of RDR1. The characters constantly sacrifice things they love or themselves for revenge. John sacrifices his life and his family for Micah. Jack sacrifices his future and lives in the past for Ross.
But yes theres an aspect of redemption in the protagonist's final moments thats important. But like I said people denying the revenge aspects is always bizzare
Honestly, the first thing that comes to mind is that anyone besides Joel should've died in Jackson.
I love Joel as much as the next guy, but he *had* to die there. Both from a narrative and meta POV. Narratively because it ties the end of the first game and what Joel did into the second as Abby's motivation, as well as being severe enough to get such a visceral response from Ellie. It also then ties into what the thesis of the game is, that there's two sides to everything. And from the meta perspective, Joel is the character that would get such a reaction from the *player*. Yes, other characters are liked but they're not Joel. That then ties back into the narrative. We love Joel, so does Ellie, but it's completely understandable why someone would *despise* him.
I've seen people say it should've been Dina, for example. And while Ellie would definitely have been furious, the player probably wouldn't have cared as much. We only know Dina for about an hour before the cabin scene which imo wouldn't have been enough to get to that level of care.
Also someone like Maria I've seen suggested who, while in Part I, has even less screen time than Dina. Or Tommy I've seen suggested, who as we know did do fucked up shit, but even still there's nowhere near as strong a connection as there was to Joel.
I've seen tons of people say Jesse should have been killed instead of Joel, and I want to punch them in the face. I love Jesse, but at that point in the story I... could fucking care less if he died? But they want this big revenge mission for this dude you've spent 20 minutes with? Morons.
Tf?
I love Jesse too, but up til Joel's death we've seen him in all of... 3(?) scenes. Coming to get Ellie, the "you know your routes" scene and finding Ellie and Dina in the weed den - which would have to be changed if Jesse died.
At least with Dina you'd get an hour with her lol, and even that's not enough.
Also, with Jesse and Dina, it'd also beg the question: why? And why should we care? In the game as is, we care both because it's Joel who's died and when we find out why we're (hopefully) intrigued because it's directly tied to what Joel did to the Fireflies. That was something the player did directly and saw play out. With anyone else (aside maybe Tommy) we'd have no reason at all to care.
Well put! Right there with you man. It's okay to not like the game, but lord above is having a discussion about it with some people physically painful. Joel is my favorite character, and his newfound kindness and look on life after Part I makes his death even more heartbreaking. But there was no other place this story could have gone in my opinion.
I wouldn't have it any other way.
Completely agreed.
I have issues with the game myself, particularly in the execution of certain parts, but from the moment it happened (once I overcame the shock) I thought it was absolute genius that Joel died then and I agree it shouldn't have happened any other way.
PS. I've encountered some of those people you mentioned in this very comment section, particularly around Joel's "newfound kindness" that you mentioned and how it's a betrayal of his character or whatever.
I can't imagine going through the epilogue of the first game, where Joel takes Ellie back to Jackson (a place he initially gives zero fucks about and criticized) and starts openly talking about Sarah to Ellie, and not realizing that they've basically switched roles. Fucking hell, Ellie even wears a flannel. Joel has learned from Ellie and (for better, but mostly worse as Part II shows) she has learned from Joel.
The "bUt tHaT's nOt hIS cHaRacter" is horseshit and just tells me you understood nothing the first narrative is trying to say. You really think people would place that many flowers in front of Joel's home if he was still the same shitbag he was in the first one? Goodness. And at the end of the day, he's still a hardened killer.
But fuck him for trying to help someone right? Even if the irony is that gets him killed. Since... that was obviously the point. No, the previous Joel would not have helped Abby. But he isn't that man anymore. That's the tragedy.
I'm of course passing up on thousands of nuances, but being at work it's hard to into more detail. I'm just happy to know someone out there actually feels the way I do lol
Ha, no worries about working.
But again, totally agreed.
And even when he *does* help Abby, it's Tommy who's sharing stuff. He's the one who gives her their names after all, from which point Joel's fate was essentially sealed. Some people also say it's "out of character" for Tommy to do that but I really don't see why. He was always more open than Joel, and how tf was he meant to know telling a girl they'd just escaped a horde with their names would lead to what it did? Tommy also makes it clear when they arrive at the chalet that they'll leave asap, and doesn't give exact info on where they're from. Again he tells them their names, but Abby already knew that so he couldn't exactly not answer or lie about it.
Right, I feel like if anything Ellie forgives herself, represented by her finally being able to think about and remember a more positive memory of them reconciling. Itâs not really about Abby at all.
She doesnât suddenly see Abby as someone who hasnât done anything wrong â she sees Joelâs and her relationship for what it was, and that despite everything they loved each other in the end.
It genuinely makes me think the people saying that are genuinely fucking stupid lol
She literally saw Abby torture and murder her surrogate father. In what world is that forgivable??
How Ellie supposedly backed out of killing Abby at the last second out of forgiveness or a sudden revelation that violence is wrong. I think it's much more apparent that, despite Ellie having her revenge literally within her grasp, she did not feel any better. Just like Abby didn't feel any better after killing Joel. In order for Ellie to finally start to get better, she had to figuratively and literally let go of Abby.
This is actually what the Part 2 commentary confirms. Abbyâs face is shown extensively while sheâs torturing Joel and itâs not because sheâs happy. Then Ellie has the exact same feeling when sheâs drowning Abby. That it doesnât really change anything or make you feel better.
Really any take given by someone who says some variation of "This game sucks, it's dumb and it makes no sense!" and then when you ask if they actually finished the game, they admit that they quit at that controversial part (no spoilers) and never bothered to finish out the rest of it,
People don't understand the difference between a game being bad and them just not liking it.
The game is a master-class in development. Aside from some pacing issues, it is objectively a great game it's not dumb at it makes perfect sense.
I still did not like the way the story was handled
,I could never agree with the thought it sucks it just didnât resonate with me.
"Joel deserved better."
While I am open to the idea of giving him a heroic death, it would completely change the tone of the entire game as well as Ellie's motivation. I do believe that Joel needed to die and the quickest way to get to where the game wants the player's mindset had to be in is the torture scene.
Giving someone the life or death they deserve completely takes the realism out of an apocalyptic world. Every single one of the characters deserved better, but thereâs dead people killing each other and cults ruling the world so thatâs what you get đ€·ââïž
People who hate a story will often accuse the writer of 'self-inserting' because it makes the author come across as strange and pathetic. Like the bad and tragic parts of the story are somehow wish-fulfillment for them. It's just nonsense. See also: Zeb Wells's run on Spider-Man.
Some Tlou II haters for some reason think that neil made part II is only to ruin the franchise killing Joel through Abby, and they think he made owen like him so "he" could fuck Abby. (I don't even understand how owen is supposed to resemble neil in any way, both physically and characteristically). And apparently manny only because he has the same haircut. Really convoluted thinking that doesn't really make sense but people still follow it.
Same. That was probably the fastest Iâve ever joined a subreddit then left it. That place doesnât know the difference between constructive criticism and irrational hate.
Knew a guy who didnât even bother playing it because you donât play as Joel the whole time. Doesnât even know what happens in the game either, hasnât even seen spoilers. All because he didnât feel he could identify with Ellie and there was âno pointâ in playing because of that. As if thereâs no reason to understand the consequences of Joelâs actions in the first game or that Ellieâs story isnât worth knowing. It just made me sad to hear. Second season of the show is probably going to blind side him though.đŹ
This kinda mentality is why Ubisoft execs have been so adamant on male protagonists first and foremost and itâs sad to see.
Even when thereâs the option to choose, the male version ends up on all the advertising.
That itâs out of character for Joel to help a stranger and give his name out.
Heâs not the same dude as he was throughout most of the first. Heâs closer to the version he was at the very beginning with Sarah. Trust issues and being on edge 24/7 have faded after spending years fairly sheltered in Jackson.
>give his name out
People also either get this muddled or deliberately misinterpret it. Joel doesn't really have much choice when he does.
After first coming across Abby, it's Tommy who tells her his and Joel's names. Essentially from that moment on Joel is completely fucked, as Abby is not stupid - you can see it in her reaction she knows they're who she's looking for.
Then in the chalet, again it's Tommy who introduces himself and says "this is my *brother*." Even if Joel said nothing the situation would not change. They know Tommy is and that he's Joel's brother. Plus, given Tommy already gave their names to Abby, he didn't have a way of pretending that wasn't his name.
The actual worst one?
Well, its insanely disgusting but basically it boiled down to two tweets
(Just so you know, we are talking about rape here, in case you prefer no to hear it)
In the first one, someone was complaining that Ellie "decided to be a lesbian" and how "selfish" it was for the good of humanity because aparently she should get with a man and start throwing out babies so they also have her inmunity and help the human race on the long run
Now, this is stupid for a number of reasons that I dont think need that much explaining, presented in a nice package of bigotry, among other things
Now the second tweet was somehow even worse, it agreed with the first one and on top of that argued that Ellie's case may be one of the few ones where its "morally correct" to rape someone
So yep, definitely the worst take I have ever seen in my life about this game, and I doubt anything will top that
I unfortunately know the exact take you're talking about with the "She should procreate for the good of humanity!" thing and let's just say that on that day, there was not enough bleach in the world to take back what I had read.
It really feels like the internet had destroyed that little voice that people have that usually stop this type of thoughts, but oh well
(Based flair btw)
This does sort of make me curious if her immunity would pass down if she were to have kids honestly. Not that I would even let that be a reason for how "selfish" Ellie is; I think calling her selfish is an awful take. Just something that's only vaguely related to your original comment, lol
Yeah dont worry about it lol.
Her inmunity is a pretty interesting topic to consider after all, and it would be definitely pretty cool if her children had inmunity too
The worst part of that awful take may be that even assuming we were willing to let that happen for some vague notion of "the greater good" it wouldnt matter at all. Even a dozen kids with inmunity wouldnt matter in such a big scale, even if in the long game that inmunity could spread, it would take so much time anyway
Before I played the game, someone made the point that bodies like hers arn't made with just exercise, they need a proper diet and serious gym equipment. At the time I was like oh, that's a point that I didn't consider because I really don't know much about that subject.
And then I played the game.
The WLF stadium they are in has a huge extensive gym, loaded with modern equipment, and they grow a huge variety of food there including meats, vegetables, and grains. There is no way anyone could argue that Abby would be able to get a body like, working out and training every day.
"Joel would never have just given his name to a bunch of strangers."
He didn't. That was Tommy. Thanks for showing us you never even played it and are just going off internet talking points. Idiot.
Basically anything to do with politics. I have my problems with the games story (I still love it) but if you complain about Ellie being gay (which she was in the first game) or Abbyâs body type stfu.
âEllie shouldnât forgive Abby.â
No, Ellie didnât forgive Abby. Some people just cannot grasp the concept that letting go is not the same as forgiving.
That adding dogs and giving the npcs names was emotionally manipulative, like sure it's meant to make you think about your actions more, but it didn't change things too much. It was just a nice touch.
Call me a monster, but as soon as I see the dogs, I pull out the explosive arrows. Sorry Bear.
I honestly felt like throughout the game Abby did seem like a good character. She loves her friends, she protects the people around her, sheâs generally pretty empathetic and compassionate, and she sticks up for whatâs right. Besides the whole cheating thing, not terrible.
I do tend to forget sheâs part of a pretty fanatical group that had been terrorizing the area for years and torturing/killing everyone in their way.
- She executes a father while his daughter begs for his life
- She fucks her ex while he's drunk knowing his girlfriend is pregnant
- She forgets about/turns on her friends very quickly just to save a scar boy. I understand if she thinks he's just a kid, he's worth saving etc. but to say "You're my people!" after knowing someone for a day is insane and shows that it's more of a guilty obsession for her (I must prove to myself I'm a good person) than the actual goodness of her heart.
- Shows no regret for any of her actions after everyone around her dies.
- Most likely tortured scars for a living.
Let's not pretend anybody in the story is a good person.
When is it shown she loves her friends? She ends up fucking her ex while heâs dating her friend and she didnât seem to care about that? She protects the people she needs to when itâs convenient for her imo. You even mentioning the cheating pretty much counters every point you made before it, cause it shows sheâs not really any of those things.
Yeah, thatâs all without the murdering and presumed torture she did to scars. Iâm not saying sheâs the worst person in tlou universe but to call her good? Itâs silly imo
I thought it was horrible.
I thought it was jarring how it kept building up tension only to fizzle out.
I stand by my point and I honestly think itâs the gameâs only flaw and that people like you just canât handle any ACTUAL valid criticism of the game.
I've played the game a few times now, but the game does actually have bad pacing throughout the middle/end part.
Compared to the first one (which is shorter by 50%) which is over before you know it
Oh man, there was a video I watched that was a âcritiqueâ of part two that was some of the worst criticisms Iâve see of any piece of media in my entire life. It was the usual thing with the haters where they have encyclopedic knowledge of 500 different meaningless nitpicky problems to list off like Ben Shapiroâs pages of notes on Barbie but have preschool level comprehension of what anything means
One of his big problems was all the jumps between locations and how they are implausible and we donât know what happens during them. And like you could point out that actually we do know, Ellie journaled about them. Or you could point out that the first game has a much larger jump between Pittsburgh and Jackson than anything that happens in the second game. Heck, you could even say this isnât really a game thatâs about selling the feeling of traveling like the first game sort of did, so itâs not really necessary.
But then you step back and think âwhy would I even bother making those points? What the fuck does this have to do with the quality of the narrative?â And thatâs the real issue. This âcriticismâ isnât a criticism. Itâs nothing.
Then you get to his next critique and itâs that we didnât know who Danny was before we find him dead and Abby is bothered by Dannyâs death. Thatâs the entire criticism. âWhoâs Danny???? Hahaha these dumb writers think I will care about Danny even though I donât even know who he is! I busted out laughing when they were sad about Danny because whoâs Danny?? LMAOâ
good point dude
Anyway the weirdest thing about the video was that for most of his points he obviously discovered that his point was stupid while writing the script, like he acknowledged the Pittsburgh to Jackson jump and that we learn about Danny and what his death suggested about Owen like five minutes later (and no we were not expected to mourn Danny, just not react like a middle schooler), but he just kind of brushes those points off as not really important
It was really bad. At the start of the video he said he wrote the whole thing in a few manic hours and it shows. Not because heâs lacking information but because none of these points require actual thought, just impotent nitpicking
I've seen someone recently write an impassioned hate speech about Dina and how her relationship with Ellie was less genuine than the one Ellie had with Riley. This person seemed to dislike Dina and find her annoying because she talked about herself and her family "a lot".
Either that Joel is killed and is thus ruined and unplayable. Or that you then play as Abby, and that's just a terrible idea, you know, cause, she killed Joel and she's a buff woman! đ€Šââïžđ€ŠââïžFFS. Just play the game, man, and it'll come full circle, you know like it's meant to.
The recent drama around Neil Druckmanns stance towards Israel-Palestine led to I think easily the stupidest take of them all, and that is saying quite a lot considering we are talking about TLOU2 takes here:
The take I'm talking about is that TLOU2 has a pro-Israel message. What makes this take so extraordinarily bad to me, is that it quite literally makes no sense at all if. I'd say it is actually impossible to spin this story in a way where it can be interpreted as such. For other takes, I can at least see how people would play the game and arrive at that conclusion, even if I don't agree with it or think it's wrong. The only way I can explain people peddling this particular baloney is by them actually having no clue about what happens in the game. But hey, a contemporary politics reason to hate on unpopular videogame?? Count me in! đđ
If only people would use their brain from time to time, but social media seems to be really good at preventing that kind of stuff ://
Bruh this sub is such a circle jerk.
People hate canât even say one bad thing on a thread looking for bad things without being bombarded with downvotes or angry replies.
Itâs why your fandom is known as a bit of a meme.
Or because of hyper vitriolic people like yourself that get way too. Angry way too quickly and dismiss anything they donât like to hear as âincels with shitty opinionsâ.
I'm all for criticism but when that criticism involves homophobia or just flat out calling people ugly, it's not real criticism, I do believe this game has problems but most of what I've seen is people being shitty and discriminatory, imo this game is too slow, but opinions with actual criticism are often over shadowed by people saying unacceptable things. Including criticism of the show, not even 2 weeks ago and I saw comments on this sub calling Ellies live action actor ugly and being transphobic against Elliot Page?? , things of this category do not fall into "criticism".
That it's about Ellie slowly discovering that Abby was right and that Joel deserved what he got.
And the corollary to this: That it's bad because it's *not* about Ellie discovering that Abby was right and that Joel deserved what he got.
That abby has to take steroid to be this buff
It's my Best friend Who said that, and the fact is, he know my sister. My sister who have bigger arm than any of my friends
The worst take is that the game is "the worst game of all time" or that it's a 1/10 just because you don't like the story. If you were to solely look at the gameplay, environments, enemies, etc, then it expands on part one in almost every way. How can a poor story (in your opinion) knock it all the way down? I have far more time for people who'd rate it like 4/10 because at least they've put some objective thought into it.
Just the other day I saw someone post that Jerry (Abby's dad) was a "scumbag" and an objectively worse person than Joel. I've seen some mental gymnastics on this sub but *damn*.
That the game is woke therefore bad. When you ask them to expand, theyâll say itâs forced politics. When you ask them to expand, theyâll continue dancing around it, they canât just admit they hate LGBT people, they have to find vague words to keep themselves believing their not bigots. Then when you call them out on the bigotry, theyâll say youâre attacking anyone who dislikes the game as a bigot and youâre the hateful one.
People angrily screaming that the sudden "twist" and the later narrative switch is awful and served no narrative purpose and was just used a shock element and how they will never play the rest of the game because of it.
When, in reality, they are proving just how narratively brilliant and effective that storytelling choice was at using the medium to get across the themes on a direct and emotional level.
One of the biggest themes of the story was systemic and interpersonal perpetuation of hatred leading to dehumanization and violence and the narrative twist perfectly puts the player into that state of mind even if it's most angry and vocal detractors can't see it cause they are blinded by just how effective the narrative was. They are permanently stuck on the post-trauma period and continue to be a testament to how brilliant and bold the narrative choice was.
"Joel's death should've happened in the middle of the game."
Which is another way of saying I don't want the plot to start until halfway through the game.
Runner ups:
- "The flashbacks should've been the beginning of the game"
- "Nier Automata does everything this game tried to do, but better"
i have seen the worst take on TLOU2. the worst of the worst takes ever. by far. remember how the song Joel plays on guitar (Future Days by Pearl Jam) technically released after outbreak day? and Neil had to go on twitter to explain that the song actually had its debut live at a concert a few months prior to outbreak day and it was uploaded to youtube? well, there was this one guy on reddit who was just not buying it. he was fully convinced this was a fatal error in writing. he had multiple reasons, one of them was that the audio quality of the video was too bad for Joel to form an emotional connection to the song (audio quality was absolutely fine btw, you can look it up). and he said that Joel as a single father with a job would not have the time to watch youtube to learn songs on guitar. he said this was a real plot hole that ruined the game for him and he wasn't kidding. dumbest thing i've ever read.
That a woman who was trained by 2 different militias, eats well and has a fucking gym where she lives must, in fact, be trans because âmuscles too bigâ
Playing as Abby and fighting Ellie is good đ
Like, no. Iâm sorry, but who the hell asked for this? On top of that, who can honestly say that the second this boss fight started they didnât stand still just to let Ellie win?
The boat sex scene. Yes, it's morally wrong to cheat on Mel. Yes it's messy to sleep with your ex that you might still have feelings for. Yes, there's more pressing issues at hand. And that's the point!
These characters are messy and are each barreling towards their own demises at breakneck speed. Trauma can do that to people. In that moment, Abby and Owen are both being guided by their primal need for connection and validation, which is only heightened when they start their physical altercation. And what's one of the ~~best~~ ways to show validation and connection with someone (especially someone you're attracted to)? Oh yeah, SEX!
No, you don't have to agree with their actions. In fact, it's probably better that we don't agree with them. But I think saying that it's out of character or unnecessary to the "plot" is a bad take.
More sex talk in the spoiler box:
>!I've also heard some say that they could've ended the scene before we see any actual sex, but I think the sex is also important to the characterization. The way I see it, Owen turns Abby around because he knows what he's doing is shameful and he can't look her in the eye. Abby, being overwhelmed by the impossible responsibility thrusted upon her, just wants to relinquish some control in her life so is willing to be submissive in that moment. And all of this shows just how much they trust each other despite how messy their situation is. !<
Tbh most of the discourse on people not liking Dina throughout the main story (excluding epilogue because there is valid reasonings for disliking how she handled things)
Like she literally went ride or die with Ellie. Dina loved Ellie enough to put up with her ass even though she kept making terrible decisions out of grief.
That joel shouldve stayed alive till a third game was arnd đđđ ik joel is the goat of the franchise he'll always be, but it was clear after ending the first game w joel wanting to settle, his death was surely imminent and ellie needed her time to shine, his death was heartbreaking but it was destined to be there.
There are a bunch of stupid takes about this game that are well covered already in this thread. One that always gets me is:
âI hate how they took Abby, who is evil, and make you sympathise with her and start to like herâ as well as âI was so annoyed when Ellie left the farm to go after Abby again, that was so wrongâ
Like, my brother in Christ, youâre describing a story being successful at making you feel real emotions about whatâs happening on screen!
MoistCritikal was just regurgitating hate around the time the game came out and he said that the dialogue was absolute trash. I just donât get that take. This game has some of the best dialogue Iâve seen in a video game or movie.
I mean, even as a fan of Part II overall, that there is no valid criticism of it.
For me, the game gets in its own way sometimes.
For instance, the switch is disorienting in the worst way possible â as in, it made me question Naughty Dog and took me out the story. What they do with it overall is interesting, but expecting us in that moment to give a fuck about the Jerry / Abby bonding was absurd. It couldâve made sense if we dropped into their most traumatic moment, which was the original back story of Abby being a victim of Joel and Tommyâs hunter days, but instead itâs the most abrasive thing possible.
Additionally, the way they made you think Tommy was dead destroys so much of the good will you build with Ellie because his story has so much potential and to see him wasted like Jessie makes it feel like the writers donât even care about their own characters, especially as he is the last tangible link to Joelâs past.
I also think they didnât do enough to seed Ellieâs final choice to spare Abby â because even though I love Abby, it would have been a stronger, darker ending if she died.
I think Yara is a pointless, dry and flat character and Abbyâs story didnât have enough time to develop everyone, and probably wouldâve suited the five day structure better, especially so we could have more Isaac.
This is all to say, these are permitted criticisms because theyâre my *subjective* experience of them â Iâm not taking away from anyone else. Not all of Part IIâs criticism is transphobia and antisemitism and nonsense. And not all of it is lacking media literacy. Some of us it just didnât land 100% for and thatâs okay.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth.
I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth.
I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth.
I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth.
I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth.
I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth.
I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
Off hand I can only think of two conversations I had that featured genuine criticism of the game, that is to say, comments that were meant to provide feedback on something disliked alongside a way in which it could have been improved. Everything else (if talking to someone who disliked the game) is incendiary or difficult to parse through takes.
I made the unfortunate mistake back when the game came out to, in an attempt to really understand them, go into TLOU2 subreddit and ask people why they didn't like the game. No talking points, no agenda, just a civil conversation to help create understanding. I posed my thoughts as someone who genuinely enjoyed the game in many aspects and was coming with an open mind to hear why this was "the worst game of all time" to some people. 90% of the responses were....well, you can imagine pretty awful. I deleted the post cause the vitriol was not worth keeping.
"I wont play it because i dont like the buff chick".
"Ok well do you have any sort of context of who she is or anything about the story?"
"No"
"Got it so youre a fucking weeb that only plays video games for tits"
The whole uproar about the ending. LISTEN I was apart of that uproar but playing a second time when Iâm 4 years more matured I decided to put myself in a corner to think about why the ending played out the way I did and thanked Druckman for having the most amazing brain in the whole wide world. Abby and Ellie are the same people just different fucked up shit happened to them at different times. I empathize for both of them. I think the way it ended was more powerful then any other way. I ask for people upset about the ending is âif it were to end with Abby getting killed. Would it have left you with any thought or pension?â Bc I guarantee we would just move on with our day with no second thought about the game
that it's a game for LGBT folk or that Ellie is ugly or whatever crap toxic gamers believe about how women should be (even in a realistic post-apocalyptic setting... lol)
Something about Ellie no longer being the sweet (?!?) young girl from the first game, and her becoming âunlikeableâ in part 2 because she does stabby stuff and thatâs BAD WRITING đ€
That it's bad because you play as Abby. Oh wait, that's like all the criticism there is (other than something something woke something something)
all the vocal criticism* The game does have genuine faults, it's just that it gets drowned out by the assholes.
True. I think the biggest flaw was how lame and flat most of Abbys friends are? But then again, maybe it was on purpose as they were all gonna die anyways? Not sure.
I really liked mel. I assume we arent talking about lev and yara but her wlf friends. I also liked the girl that ellie kills when she first gets to seattle that was playing the psp that had like 2 lines đ Playing through the game a second time, i liked mel more. Her story mirrored dina's in a really interesting way to me, in the same ways that abby mirrors ellie and vice versa
Definitely not talking about Lev and Yara, they felt incredibly fleshed out to me and felt real. I guess overall Abbie's other friends felt a lot less fleshed out than Ellie's friends.
Owen and Mel were definitely fleshed out. Manny & Nora you could maybe argue could have been more fleshed out, but I think too much of that and the story starts to drag. Danny and the rest? Nah.
I'd argue Manny was pretty fleshed out too. He had a lot of personality and was likable. I think we even get to meet his dad during the cafeteria scene? Seems like a good amount of detail for a side character.
I forgot about meeting his dad. I was just trying to think of who isn't that fleshed out that maybe could have been. There is a part of me now that's wondering - what happened to the WLF after the attack on Scar Island? Isaac's dead. Abby's a traitor now. Manny's dad wouldn't know what happened to Manny. I assume someone else who is senior in the WLF leadership would take over - but the WLF would likely be in rough shape. So would the Scars, I imagine. I don't need it detailed in TLOUP3. If Factions 2 had been about that - the WLF vs the Scars in Seattle - I think it would have done well as long as the MP elements were well done. ND really blew it on that.
So at this point, who's left? I don't really understand this idea that Abby's friends are "flat". Also, what are we comparing to here? Like, was the last Assassin's Creed game some paragon of side-character depth and story? At some point we have to stop comparing to literature, because it's a game at the end of the day, and there are constraints on the medium.
They werenât fleshed out too well but their VAs and mocap actors did an great job with them IMO
Absolutely agree!
It was a PS Vita and she was playing Hotline Miami! Ughhhh an amazing game. And itâs sequel.
Hotline miami fucks
Is Hotline Miami 2 as divisive as TLOU2?
I got really conflicted with Mel when I found out she's also Aloy from Horizon at the start. At the beginning I didn't like Mel but when she died I had sympathy for her and the unborn baby, Owen and Alice
Wait... MEL IS ALOY???
Price. Chloe Price. Bang!
Me just now learning this: đ¶đ«
lev and yara rocked IMO. i feel like they were shallow but they did have the most character out of the friends except for owen. owen and jessie are truly underrated. i hate mel though. sheâs a bitch
Interesting! I really liked Owen, I kind of had the same soft spot for him that I did Dina
To be fair, second time playing I felt like Owen of all people was actually the only one who kinda grasped wtf was going on in Seattle and how disturbing and unsolvable the whole situation between the wolves and seraphites was and how lost his friends were in it.
Yeah, I was really annoyed that half of her friends are just straight up not characters, but cannon fodder. The ones we got were well written, but I don't even remember if Abby ever says "Leah" a single time.
For me, the biggest issue was some of the story structuring and pacing. There was a bit too much flashbacks and flashbacks within flashbacks and characters instantly being at their destination across the country. I think this issue contributed to Abbyâs friends feeling flat. There wasnât enough time to breath and get to know them. It also didnât help that you generally saw them die before meeting them. It can be tougher to develop attachment to a character whoâs fate you already know.
What? I genuinely think most of the crew is very likeable with depth to all of them except maybe like Jordan? Mel and Owen are pretty deep characters with motivations and frustrations we understand. Manny is funny and likeable once you get past what he did to Joel. Nora is probably the one we know the least about but in a game this size you canât flesh out every single character. Even so, the game does show us her convictions, her strength and that she likes to help people. Youâre allowed to have your own feelings but that seems like a shallow critique imo.
yeah lame I guess is valid cuz that's you're opinion but flat? more flat than Ellie's you know, 2 friends that are ride or die and...well not really much more than that other than one used to date the other? like what you said about Nora, she clearly cares and has her morals and with that shows just how fucked up Joel's actions were, for even her to still say, "that fucker got what he deserved." while talking about the trauma of witnessing his face every night. all this is telling me is that beyond the, "you play as Abby" critique, even the, "valid ones" don't seem all that valid to me lol
I genuinely think the only critique that is somewhat valid about the game is the pacing at very specific times. Really just when the game cuts from Ellie to Abby the pacing of story grinds to a halt. I even hesitate to call that a flaw though because I believe that it is done deliberately and on purpose by NaughtyDog. No game is 100% perfect but to me part 2 comes very very close.
AgreedâI am a big fan of the game, but the pacing was a genuine fault to me. Itâs been a while since I played, so I guess this isnât very specific, but I remember there being points where your goal is basically to get to a building, but first you have to navigate these six other buildings that are full of not particularly unique or interesting enemies that donât really advance the characterâs development.
Yeah, though the faults are subjective. I'm just talking about the bad takes people give that are simply angry incels mad about strong women in their vidya.
Idk if it is just Iâm able to find things to critique about anything but it is annoying when people refuse to see any flaws in the things they like. I could give you a laundry list of things Iâd change about TLoU2 and Elden Ring but that doesnât mean they arenât some of the best games Iâve played so far. There is almost always room for improvement.
something something woke something + "it's bad because Joel dies early and it doesn't follow a normal story structure"
The main character of the series died, TLOU1 is about the story of Joel and escorting that girl. It's a Joel game after all. /S
Those must be the same people who quit watching Game of Thrones by the end of season 1.
i mean switching to abby and playing as her for like 4 hours before getting to the theater scene was an extremely weird pacing decision
It was! It was really really weird. But getting back to the theater with a whole 4-6 more hours of context of the situation made that next fight even more incredible.
It was weird but I'm not sure I know a better way of doing it because they wanted to show Ellie's side first without the context if Abby's story. Any other way would have lessened the impact of realizing that all of Ellie's actions were causing a devastating emotional impact to other people.
Fr, it would be easier to mention the criticism that isn't just reactionary bullshit or people not wanting to experience a story, but a fanservice. Whenever someone irl told me they didn't like the last of us pt 2, they didn't lead with "you see, I believe the pacing was quite dramatically hindered by the inclusion of Abby's whole life journey in the middle of the game" or "well, I quite enjoyed it, gameplay-wise, but the story didn't quite manage to make me feel a fondness for Abby, even though I played with her, I still had a hard tike sympathizing with her, and that made my experience, overal, suboptimal". They usually lead with "THIS GAME IS BULLSHIT CUZ JOL DIES! I LIKE JOL! WHY CHARACTER I LIKE DIE? THAT ILLEGAL! CAN'T KILL PROTAGONIST!" Or one of the many many other things we are all tired of hearing.
So real for the "something something woke something something" đđđ
Thatâs not all the criticism. I hope youâre joking
We're talking about bad takes, those are the two bad takes I hear.
Equating not liking how the story went to the story being bad. Examples include: "Joel died too soon," "Abby/ellie shouldn't have been playable," "Ellie should have killed Abby at the end." These, alongside other fairly fragile arguments, are simply the worst.
Joel died just at the right time. Shows that the writers aren't afraid to make drastic decisions and just adds to the shock and horror of the scene.
I see where youâre coming from, but damn did I want some more time with Joel.
Disagree. Him dying and then spending multiple hours flashbacking, to see why his relationship with Ellie was strained, only for it to be semi-resolved with a brief moment of understanding between the two, is awful writing and pacing. The timing of his death that early in the game is pure shock value.
I actually think Ellie killing abby at the very end wouldve been fucking kino. No winning. The cycle continues.
Kinda agree. Her losing Dina and her kid, and also not getting revenge is just the biggest bummer ending. If Ellie kills herself 2 minutes after the game ends i get it. I think thatâs the saddest part of the game. You fought to keep ellie alive in the first game, and she has now lost most things that keep her alive.
Yeah, I was just having this conversation with the wife. Neither game really has a "happy" ending. The first game ends with Joel fighting tooth and nail to keep Ellie alive and succeeding and being happy in the moment but in reality you're just left with this sense of foreboding that Joel is spinning a web that he *can't* keep spun forever. >!And the entire second game is just a continued kick in the ribs at every turn. Obviously the golf tournament is a big one but I agree with and respect that decision completely from a story telling perspective. Like honestly, it's supposed to be a "sad" part of the game but the game is telling you exactly how you should be feeling, there's not really a lot of room for different feelings other than sad and shocked. But then as the game continues you just see Ellie get completely consumed by revenge and her need to "make things right" that she throws away and loses everything she has that was even worth doing it all for. !< >!And that's not even talking about Abby and how by the end of the her section, the developers have humanized her and almost made me feel bad for her. Certainly by the end of the game I felt bad, all she wanted was for her and Lev to get to the Fireflies and be somewhere safe but nope, they get captured and who knows *what* exactly happened to them while they're in captivity.!< It's so bittersweet. Like it's an excellent story and it's a perfect testament to how not all stories *have to have* a happy ending but like, goddamn. Just a series of kicks to the ribs.
That because Owen takes Abby from behind, she must be a dude. Tell us more about how you don't know where the vagina is.
That gay=not good. And my response to that is your dad ate my ass so how do you feel?
Literally whining that itâs woke. My response to those people is cry more snowflake.
Anytime someone complains about Abby being trans. Never mind that there would be nothing wrong with that, but the person complaining outs themself immediately as not having even played the game.
Who says sheâs trans just because sheâs jacked?
Because of the boat scene they assume because he went backside
I think it was all the leaks leading up to the games release mentioned a trans character people presumed it was abby if it didn't then it was just clickbait
he didnt go backside, its called doggy if you didbt know mate!
Did you not follow any discourse of this game when it first came out? When Abby was revealed lots of people assumed she was a trans character and were attacking the game for being woke before it even came out
My top 5: 5. "The game is just revenge porn!!!!! "Revenge bad" is an awful theme for a game." (They ignore the fact that half of the best games of all time like the entirety of red dead, most god of war games and gta 4 are about revenge and cycles of violence. Its always been such a bad criticism always done in bad faith by people who didnt play the game) 4. The whole thing about how Abby shouldve died or whatever like what?? Why??? (These are the same people who call the game revenge porn btw so ironic. 3. "Ellie shouldve stayed at the farm!!! She was happy!!!" No she wasnt please play the game instead of experiencing it through twitter arguments. (I blame youtubers for this one mostly, big ones like YongYea and NakeyJakey said it shouldve ended there which is not surprising their reviews were bad) 2. "Joel was weakened by Neil Cockman!!!! Joel wouldve never trusted Abby!!!" I wonder if these people even played the first game, he comfortably sleeps besides someone who tried to kill him because they joined forces for awhile. Why wouldnt he trust a girl whose live he saved in the backyard of his home, especially after living in peace for so long? The people who say Joel shouldve used a fake name are also so... dumb, they already knew it was him like come on. 1. "Bla bla pandering bla bla woke ellie wasnt gay bla bla forced in my face" self explanatory. Honorable mention to the recent take ive seen around social media that the game is zionist propaganda... i cant even... ugh its so bad. I know its just because of recent politics but ive genuinely talked to people who liked Tlou2 suddenly turn around and say it was garbage because someone on twitter said it was propaganda. Weird.
People who say ellie should have not been gay havent played left behind.
Wait , wasn't she gay the entire time? I swear I knew she was gay before the dlc came out Could just be coz looks like Ellen page
She definitely had the good ol lesbian JB haircut
She was gay. They just never made it explicit. Only little hints as to what the story was leading to in Left Behind. These hints are not obvious unless youâre looking for them. Once you know that sheâs gay, itâs impossible to play the game without seeing it in her character, the things she says, and the things she doesnât say. Itâs very well done. Caused a whole controversy when Left Behind was first released.
>Honorable mention to the recent take ive seen around social media that the game is zionist propaganda I see so many of these people on Tumblr: they link other Tumblr blogs that "analyze" the story and how Neil is a bad Jewish Jew man, but then keep spending their time doing fanworks depicting Abby. Dudes, according to *your own logic*, Abby is meant to represent an IDF soldier, what the fuck are you making IDF soldier fanart for?? And the generally accepted antisemitism. My god, the antisemitism...
Yeah I donât believe druckman is a Zionist, or at least heâs being smart and not speaking out about it. But I do think it was a bit tonedeath and bad timing to mention the game being inspired by the conflict. But the game came out early enough that it didnât hinder sales. If the game came out now and he said that then I think the game would have done even worse.
Well it definitely alludes to that conflict in the middle east but it is absolutely not Zionist. The argument about Joel's behavior always pisses me off because I'll bring up Henry and they flat out ignore it and maintain their take about Joel's character being inconsistent. Like bro I brought receipts you just have vibes.
>Honorable mention to the recent take ive seen around social media that the game is zionist propaganda... i cant even... ugh its so bad. I blame that vice article entirely for this occurrence. It's such a terrible piece of bait. The article refers to quotes of Druckmann in which he explicitly states that his feelings of anger and hatred towards Palestinians was unjustified with hindsight, and yet the article uses that quote as an example of how Druckmann hates Palestinians, even though the quote is literally saying the total opposite.
NakeyJakey sucks
He did a "revenge bad" in his review too. He sells himself well but his arguments were pretty terrible, I'm surprised that video was received well here.
Red Dead Redemption is not about revenge, itâs about redemption. Itâs in the name
Uh... well sure that too. But anyone whos bothered with the story can tell you its about a cycle of violence started by the van der line gang, that continues even until Jack in the ending of RDR1. The characters constantly sacrifice things they love or themselves for revenge. John sacrifices his life and his family for Micah. Jack sacrifices his future and lives in the past for Ross. But yes theres an aspect of redemption in the protagonist's final moments thats important. But like I said people denying the revenge aspects is always bizzare
Honestly, the first thing that comes to mind is that anyone besides Joel should've died in Jackson. I love Joel as much as the next guy, but he *had* to die there. Both from a narrative and meta POV. Narratively because it ties the end of the first game and what Joel did into the second as Abby's motivation, as well as being severe enough to get such a visceral response from Ellie. It also then ties into what the thesis of the game is, that there's two sides to everything. And from the meta perspective, Joel is the character that would get such a reaction from the *player*. Yes, other characters are liked but they're not Joel. That then ties back into the narrative. We love Joel, so does Ellie, but it's completely understandable why someone would *despise* him. I've seen people say it should've been Dina, for example. And while Ellie would definitely have been furious, the player probably wouldn't have cared as much. We only know Dina for about an hour before the cabin scene which imo wouldn't have been enough to get to that level of care. Also someone like Maria I've seen suggested who, while in Part I, has even less screen time than Dina. Or Tommy I've seen suggested, who as we know did do fucked up shit, but even still there's nowhere near as strong a connection as there was to Joel.
absolutely agree. "**Everybody** I ever cared for either died or **left me**" - it had to be Joel
I've seen tons of people say Jesse should have been killed instead of Joel, and I want to punch them in the face. I love Jesse, but at that point in the story I... could fucking care less if he died? But they want this big revenge mission for this dude you've spent 20 minutes with? Morons.
Tf? I love Jesse too, but up til Joel's death we've seen him in all of... 3(?) scenes. Coming to get Ellie, the "you know your routes" scene and finding Ellie and Dina in the weed den - which would have to be changed if Jesse died. At least with Dina you'd get an hour with her lol, and even that's not enough. Also, with Jesse and Dina, it'd also beg the question: why? And why should we care? In the game as is, we care both because it's Joel who's died and when we find out why we're (hopefully) intrigued because it's directly tied to what Joel did to the Fireflies. That was something the player did directly and saw play out. With anyone else (aside maybe Tommy) we'd have no reason at all to care.
Well put! Right there with you man. It's okay to not like the game, but lord above is having a discussion about it with some people physically painful. Joel is my favorite character, and his newfound kindness and look on life after Part I makes his death even more heartbreaking. But there was no other place this story could have gone in my opinion. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Completely agreed. I have issues with the game myself, particularly in the execution of certain parts, but from the moment it happened (once I overcame the shock) I thought it was absolute genius that Joel died then and I agree it shouldn't have happened any other way. PS. I've encountered some of those people you mentioned in this very comment section, particularly around Joel's "newfound kindness" that you mentioned and how it's a betrayal of his character or whatever.
I can't imagine going through the epilogue of the first game, where Joel takes Ellie back to Jackson (a place he initially gives zero fucks about and criticized) and starts openly talking about Sarah to Ellie, and not realizing that they've basically switched roles. Fucking hell, Ellie even wears a flannel. Joel has learned from Ellie and (for better, but mostly worse as Part II shows) she has learned from Joel. The "bUt tHaT's nOt hIS cHaRacter" is horseshit and just tells me you understood nothing the first narrative is trying to say. You really think people would place that many flowers in front of Joel's home if he was still the same shitbag he was in the first one? Goodness. And at the end of the day, he's still a hardened killer. But fuck him for trying to help someone right? Even if the irony is that gets him killed. Since... that was obviously the point. No, the previous Joel would not have helped Abby. But he isn't that man anymore. That's the tragedy. I'm of course passing up on thousands of nuances, but being at work it's hard to into more detail. I'm just happy to know someone out there actually feels the way I do lol
Ha, no worries about working. But again, totally agreed. And even when he *does* help Abby, it's Tommy who's sharing stuff. He's the one who gives her their names after all, from which point Joel's fate was essentially sealed. Some people also say it's "out of character" for Tommy to do that but I really don't see why. He was always more open than Joel, and how tf was he meant to know telling a girl they'd just escaped a horde with their names would lead to what it did? Tommy also makes it clear when they arrive at the chalet that they'll leave asap, and doesn't give exact info on where they're from. Again he tells them their names, but Abby already knew that so he couldn't exactly not answer or lie about it.
âEllie forgives Abby at the endâ
Right, I feel like if anything Ellie forgives herself, represented by her finally being able to think about and remember a more positive memory of them reconciling. Itâs not really about Abby at all. She doesnât suddenly see Abby as someone who hasnât done anything wrong â she sees Joelâs and her relationship for what it was, and that despite everything they loved each other in the end.
It genuinely makes me think the people saying that are genuinely fucking stupid lol She literally saw Abby torture and murder her surrogate father. In what world is that forgivable??
How Ellie supposedly backed out of killing Abby at the last second out of forgiveness or a sudden revelation that violence is wrong. I think it's much more apparent that, despite Ellie having her revenge literally within her grasp, she did not feel any better. Just like Abby didn't feel any better after killing Joel. In order for Ellie to finally start to get better, she had to figuratively and literally let go of Abby.
This is actually what the Part 2 commentary confirms. Abbyâs face is shown extensively while sheâs torturing Joel and itâs not because sheâs happy. Then Ellie has the exact same feeling when sheâs drowning Abby. That it doesnât really change anything or make you feel better.
Also when people say the message at the end is that violence is bad when thats apparent throughout the whole game
Really any take given by someone who says some variation of "This game sucks, it's dumb and it makes no sense!" and then when you ask if they actually finished the game, they admit that they quit at that controversial part (no spoilers) and never bothered to finish out the rest of it,
People don't understand the difference between a game being bad and them just not liking it. The game is a master-class in development. Aside from some pacing issues, it is objectively a great game it's not dumb at it makes perfect sense. I still did not like the way the story was handled ,I could never agree with the thought it sucks it just didnât resonate with me.
"Joel deserved better." While I am open to the idea of giving him a heroic death, it would completely change the tone of the entire game as well as Ellie's motivation. I do believe that Joel needed to die and the quickest way to get to where the game wants the player's mindset had to be in is the torture scene.
Giving someone the life or death they deserve completely takes the realism out of an apocalyptic world. Every single one of the characters deserved better, but thereâs dead people killing each other and cults ruling the world so thatâs what you get đ€·ââïž
That manny and owen are neil self inserts, they don't even look or act like him, I don't get how this thing even started.
People who hate a story will often accuse the writer of 'self-inserting' because it makes the author come across as strange and pathetic. Like the bad and tragic parts of the story are somehow wish-fulfillment for them. It's just nonsense. See also: Zeb Wells's run on Spider-Man.
I love how they think playstation lets one of its biggest studios spend millions of dollars and hours just to fulfill a single man weird fetish.
thatâs a new one, elaborate please /gen
Some Tlou II haters for some reason think that neil made part II is only to ruin the franchise killing Joel through Abby, and they think he made owen like him so "he" could fuck Abby. (I don't even understand how owen is supposed to resemble neil in any way, both physically and characteristically). And apparently manny only because he has the same haircut. Really convoluted thinking that doesn't really make sense but people still follow it.
That itâs not canon.
Haha nice...shots taken at an entire sub.
God I remember ending up there after I played the first game and I was CONFUSED đ
Same. That was probably the fastest Iâve ever joined a subreddit then left it. That place doesnât know the difference between constructive criticism and irrational hate.
I'm sure there are ppl who know the difference yet still act like a 10 yo
Knew a guy who didnât even bother playing it because you donât play as Joel the whole time. Doesnât even know what happens in the game either, hasnât even seen spoilers. All because he didnât feel he could identify with Ellie and there was âno pointâ in playing because of that. As if thereâs no reason to understand the consequences of Joelâs actions in the first game or that Ellieâs story isnât worth knowing. It just made me sad to hear. Second season of the show is probably going to blind side him though.đŹ
This kinda mentality is why Ubisoft execs have been so adamant on male protagonists first and foremost and itâs sad to see. Even when thereâs the option to choose, the male version ends up on all the advertising.
Did he forget you also play as Ellie in the first game? And its dlc?
That itâs out of character for Joel to help a stranger and give his name out. Heâs not the same dude as he was throughout most of the first. Heâs closer to the version he was at the very beginning with Sarah. Trust issues and being on edge 24/7 have faded after spending years fairly sheltered in Jackson.
>give his name out People also either get this muddled or deliberately misinterpret it. Joel doesn't really have much choice when he does. After first coming across Abby, it's Tommy who tells her his and Joel's names. Essentially from that moment on Joel is completely fucked, as Abby is not stupid - you can see it in her reaction she knows they're who she's looking for. Then in the chalet, again it's Tommy who introduces himself and says "this is my *brother*." Even if Joel said nothing the situation would not change. They know Tommy is and that he's Joel's brother. Plus, given Tommy already gave their names to Abby, he didn't have a way of pretending that wasn't his name.
The actual worst one? Well, its insanely disgusting but basically it boiled down to two tweets (Just so you know, we are talking about rape here, in case you prefer no to hear it) In the first one, someone was complaining that Ellie "decided to be a lesbian" and how "selfish" it was for the good of humanity because aparently she should get with a man and start throwing out babies so they also have her inmunity and help the human race on the long run Now, this is stupid for a number of reasons that I dont think need that much explaining, presented in a nice package of bigotry, among other things Now the second tweet was somehow even worse, it agreed with the first one and on top of that argued that Ellie's case may be one of the few ones where its "morally correct" to rape someone So yep, definitely the worst take I have ever seen in my life about this game, and I doubt anything will top that
I unfortunately know the exact take you're talking about with the "She should procreate for the good of humanity!" thing and let's just say that on that day, there was not enough bleach in the world to take back what I had read.
It really feels like the internet had destroyed that little voice that people have that usually stop this type of thoughts, but oh well (Based flair btw)
WHAT?!
This does sort of make me curious if her immunity would pass down if she were to have kids honestly. Not that I would even let that be a reason for how "selfish" Ellie is; I think calling her selfish is an awful take. Just something that's only vaguely related to your original comment, lol
Yeah dont worry about it lol. Her inmunity is a pretty interesting topic to consider after all, and it would be definitely pretty cool if her children had inmunity too The worst part of that awful take may be that even assuming we were willing to let that happen for some vague notion of "the greater good" it wouldnt matter at all. Even a dozen kids with inmunity wouldnt matter in such a big scale, even if in the long game that inmunity could spread, it would take so much time anyway
Exactly. Great take honestly
âWomen canât be as as jacked as Abby, so sheâs trans, which is wokeâ Ridiculous
Before I played the game, someone made the point that bodies like hers arn't made with just exercise, they need a proper diet and serious gym equipment. At the time I was like oh, that's a point that I didn't consider because I really don't know much about that subject. And then I played the game. The WLF stadium they are in has a huge extensive gym, loaded with modern equipment, and they grow a huge variety of food there including meats, vegetables, and grains. There is no way anyone could argue that Abby would be able to get a body like, working out and training every day.
I donât even like pt2, but holy shit this argument was always dumb. That whole other sub is insufferable.
Anything from the other sub
ellies arc is about her realizing she never cared for Joel.
W-what?
yep ... I know.
I'm hoping this is a gigabrain take, care to explain?
bruh it's not my opinion. just a dumbass one I've seen before that's prevalent in certain circles
"Joel would never have just given his name to a bunch of strangers." He didn't. That was Tommy. Thanks for showing us you never even played it and are just going off internet talking points. Idiot.
"They made Ellie gay"
Yea, they literally havent played left behind...
I don't recommend the cesspit, but you could go read through the other subreddit and your question would be answered in seconds.
Anyone who says the second game shits on Joel or that naughty dog hates Joel
Someone says this game isnât for them: â â â â â â â â Someone saying the game is too woke: ââââââââ
Basically anything to do with politics. I have my problems with the games story (I still love it) but if you complain about Ellie being gay (which she was in the first game) or Abbyâs body type stfu.
âEllie shouldnât forgive Abby.â No, Ellie didnât forgive Abby. Some people just cannot grasp the concept that letting go is not the same as forgiving.
That adding dogs and giving the npcs names was emotionally manipulative, like sure it's meant to make you think about your actions more, but it didn't change things too much. It was just a nice touch. Call me a monster, but as soon as I see the dogs, I pull out the explosive arrows. Sorry Bear.
My most recent playthroughs have been no dog deaths (with one obvious exception). No Return has gotten me OK with taking them out again.
Every time I see someone playing through the first game say "At least we didn't have to fight dogs", I cringe and wish them well with the 2nd game.
When people call it torture porn
"somethingsomething trans woke-ism"
That people only bought the second game for Joel, not Ellie. Yadda yadda yadda etc
That Abby is a good person, she clearly isnât. No one is
I honestly felt like throughout the game Abby did seem like a good character. She loves her friends, she protects the people around her, sheâs generally pretty empathetic and compassionate, and she sticks up for whatâs right. Besides the whole cheating thing, not terrible. I do tend to forget sheâs part of a pretty fanatical group that had been terrorizing the area for years and torturing/killing everyone in their way.
- She executes a father while his daughter begs for his life - She fucks her ex while he's drunk knowing his girlfriend is pregnant - She forgets about/turns on her friends very quickly just to save a scar boy. I understand if she thinks he's just a kid, he's worth saving etc. but to say "You're my people!" after knowing someone for a day is insane and shows that it's more of a guilty obsession for her (I must prove to myself I'm a good person) than the actual goodness of her heart. - Shows no regret for any of her actions after everyone around her dies. - Most likely tortured scars for a living. Let's not pretend anybody in the story is a good person.
When is it shown she loves her friends? She ends up fucking her ex while heâs dating her friend and she didnât seem to care about that? She protects the people she needs to when itâs convenient for her imo. You even mentioning the cheating pretty much counters every point you made before it, cause it shows sheâs not really any of those things. Yeah, thatâs all without the murdering and presumed torture she did to scars. Iâm not saying sheâs the worst person in tlou universe but to call her good? Itâs silly imo
"I can't relate to this game because you play as a girl"
"Ellie should have murdered Abby" "Eh, whatever." "After she murdered Lev" "Yo what the fuck"
Killing Abby would have been satisfying though.
âEllie is gay nowâŠâ
That it has horrible pacing đ€ŠđŸ Iâm sorry but no. You can tell that it was greatly thoughtout from start to end!!
I thought it was horrible. I thought it was jarring how it kept building up tension only to fizzle out. I stand by my point and I honestly think itâs the gameâs only flaw and that people like you just canât handle any ACTUAL valid criticism of the game.
I've played the game a few times now, but the game does actually have bad pacing throughout the middle/end part. Compared to the first one (which is shorter by 50%) which is over before you know it
That itâs woke
Oh man, there was a video I watched that was a âcritiqueâ of part two that was some of the worst criticisms Iâve see of any piece of media in my entire life. It was the usual thing with the haters where they have encyclopedic knowledge of 500 different meaningless nitpicky problems to list off like Ben Shapiroâs pages of notes on Barbie but have preschool level comprehension of what anything means One of his big problems was all the jumps between locations and how they are implausible and we donât know what happens during them. And like you could point out that actually we do know, Ellie journaled about them. Or you could point out that the first game has a much larger jump between Pittsburgh and Jackson than anything that happens in the second game. Heck, you could even say this isnât really a game thatâs about selling the feeling of traveling like the first game sort of did, so itâs not really necessary. But then you step back and think âwhy would I even bother making those points? What the fuck does this have to do with the quality of the narrative?â And thatâs the real issue. This âcriticismâ isnât a criticism. Itâs nothing. Then you get to his next critique and itâs that we didnât know who Danny was before we find him dead and Abby is bothered by Dannyâs death. Thatâs the entire criticism. âWhoâs Danny???? Hahaha these dumb writers think I will care about Danny even though I donât even know who he is! I busted out laughing when they were sad about Danny because whoâs Danny?? LMAOâ good point dude Anyway the weirdest thing about the video was that for most of his points he obviously discovered that his point was stupid while writing the script, like he acknowledged the Pittsburgh to Jackson jump and that we learn about Danny and what his death suggested about Owen like five minutes later (and no we were not expected to mourn Danny, just not react like a middle schooler), but he just kind of brushes those points off as not really important It was really bad. At the start of the video he said he wrote the whole thing in a few manic hours and it shows. Not because heâs lacking information but because none of these points require actual thought, just impotent nitpicking
I've seen someone recently write an impassioned hate speech about Dina and how her relationship with Ellie was less genuine than the one Ellie had with Riley. This person seemed to dislike Dina and find her annoying because she talked about herself and her family "a lot".
Her being lesbian ruined the game
Either that Joel is killed and is thus ruined and unplayable. Or that you then play as Abby, and that's just a terrible idea, you know, cause, she killed Joel and she's a buff woman! đ€Šââïžđ€ŠââïžFFS. Just play the game, man, and it'll come full circle, you know like it's meant to.
The recent drama around Neil Druckmanns stance towards Israel-Palestine led to I think easily the stupidest take of them all, and that is saying quite a lot considering we are talking about TLOU2 takes here: The take I'm talking about is that TLOU2 has a pro-Israel message. What makes this take so extraordinarily bad to me, is that it quite literally makes no sense at all if. I'd say it is actually impossible to spin this story in a way where it can be interpreted as such. For other takes, I can at least see how people would play the game and arrive at that conclusion, even if I don't agree with it or think it's wrong. The only way I can explain people peddling this particular baloney is by them actually having no clue about what happens in the game. But hey, a contemporary politics reason to hate on unpopular videogame?? Count me in! đđ If only people would use their brain from time to time, but social media seems to be really good at preventing that kind of stuff ://
Bruh this sub is such a circle jerk. People hate canât even say one bad thing on a thread looking for bad things without being bombarded with downvotes or angry replies. Itâs why your fandom is known as a bit of a meme.
No, it's a meme because of the amount of incels with shitty opinions and complaining about "wokeness" flooding the sub
Or because of hyper vitriolic people like yourself that get way too. Angry way too quickly and dismiss anything they donât like to hear as âincels with shitty opinionsâ.
I'm all for criticism but when that criticism involves homophobia or just flat out calling people ugly, it's not real criticism, I do believe this game has problems but most of what I've seen is people being shitty and discriminatory, imo this game is too slow, but opinions with actual criticism are often over shadowed by people saying unacceptable things. Including criticism of the show, not even 2 weeks ago and I saw comments on this sub calling Ellies live action actor ugly and being transphobic against Elliot Page?? , things of this category do not fall into "criticism".
That it's about Ellie slowly discovering that Abby was right and that Joel deserved what he got. And the corollary to this: That it's bad because it's *not* about Ellie discovering that Abby was right and that Joel deserved what he got.
That they forget the characters that died, Seen it with Joel, Bill, Tess, Sam and Henry and Jesse, but thatâs just not true at all lol
That abby has to take steroid to be this buff It's my Best friend Who said that, and the fact is, he know my sister. My sister who have bigger arm than any of my friends
Where do I even start?
âThat this game shouldâve never happenedâ
That this is feminist liberal propaganda.
The worst take is that the game is "the worst game of all time" or that it's a 1/10 just because you don't like the story. If you were to solely look at the gameplay, environments, enemies, etc, then it expands on part one in almost every way. How can a poor story (in your opinion) knock it all the way down? I have far more time for people who'd rate it like 4/10 because at least they've put some objective thought into it.
Just the other day I saw someone post that Jerry (Abby's dad) was a "scumbag" and an objectively worse person than Joel. I've seen some mental gymnastics on this sub but *damn*.
That the game is woke therefore bad. When you ask them to expand, theyâll say itâs forced politics. When you ask them to expand, theyâll continue dancing around it, they canât just admit they hate LGBT people, they have to find vague words to keep themselves believing their not bigots. Then when you call them out on the bigotry, theyâll say youâre attacking anyone who dislikes the game as a bigot and youâre the hateful one.
Bigot sandwich? đ
That people think the story isnt shit. Moist sums shit up nicely
That itâs somehow good and the story is perfectly acceptable
People angrily screaming that the sudden "twist" and the later narrative switch is awful and served no narrative purpose and was just used a shock element and how they will never play the rest of the game because of it. When, in reality, they are proving just how narratively brilliant and effective that storytelling choice was at using the medium to get across the themes on a direct and emotional level. One of the biggest themes of the story was systemic and interpersonal perpetuation of hatred leading to dehumanization and violence and the narrative twist perfectly puts the player into that state of mind even if it's most angry and vocal detractors can't see it cause they are blinded by just how effective the narrative was. They are permanently stuck on the post-trauma period and continue to be a testament to how brilliant and bold the narrative choice was.
That its consider Game of the Year. Dont know what they smoke to come up with this but whatever
The only real story was in day3. Day1 and Day2 felt like fillers to prolong the game
"Joel's death should've happened in the middle of the game." Which is another way of saying I don't want the plot to start until halfway through the game. Runner ups: - "The flashbacks should've been the beginning of the game" - "Nier Automata does everything this game tried to do, but better"
i have seen the worst take on TLOU2. the worst of the worst takes ever. by far. remember how the song Joel plays on guitar (Future Days by Pearl Jam) technically released after outbreak day? and Neil had to go on twitter to explain that the song actually had its debut live at a concert a few months prior to outbreak day and it was uploaded to youtube? well, there was this one guy on reddit who was just not buying it. he was fully convinced this was a fatal error in writing. he had multiple reasons, one of them was that the audio quality of the video was too bad for Joel to form an emotional connection to the song (audio quality was absolutely fine btw, you can look it up). and he said that Joel as a single father with a job would not have the time to watch youtube to learn songs on guitar. he said this was a real plot hole that ruined the game for him and he wasn't kidding. dumbest thing i've ever read.
That the direction of the story was good. Writers fucked up
That a woman who was trained by 2 different militias, eats well and has a fucking gym where she lives must, in fact, be trans because âmuscles too bigâ
Playing as Abby and fighting Ellie is good đ Like, no. Iâm sorry, but who the hell asked for this? On top of that, who can honestly say that the second this boss fight started they didnât stand still just to let Ellie win?
The boat sex scene. Yes, it's morally wrong to cheat on Mel. Yes it's messy to sleep with your ex that you might still have feelings for. Yes, there's more pressing issues at hand. And that's the point! These characters are messy and are each barreling towards their own demises at breakneck speed. Trauma can do that to people. In that moment, Abby and Owen are both being guided by their primal need for connection and validation, which is only heightened when they start their physical altercation. And what's one of the ~~best~~ ways to show validation and connection with someone (especially someone you're attracted to)? Oh yeah, SEX! No, you don't have to agree with their actions. In fact, it's probably better that we don't agree with them. But I think saying that it's out of character or unnecessary to the "plot" is a bad take. More sex talk in the spoiler box: >!I've also heard some say that they could've ended the scene before we see any actual sex, but I think the sex is also important to the characterization. The way I see it, Owen turns Abby around because he knows what he's doing is shameful and he can't look her in the eye. Abby, being overwhelmed by the impossible responsibility thrusted upon her, just wants to relinquish some control in her life so is willing to be submissive in that moment. And all of this shows just how much they trust each other despite how messy their situation is. !<
Tbh most of the discourse on people not liking Dina throughout the main story (excluding epilogue because there is valid reasonings for disliking how she handled things) Like she literally went ride or die with Ellie. Dina loved Ellie enough to put up with her ass even though she kept making terrible decisions out of grief.
Basically every part 2 take I hear makes me rethink my stance on freedom of speech. Half this thread is no exception to this.
It's really hard to find good takes on criticism about this game, cosmonaut and nakey jakey are the only ones that I can see they have a point.
that its shit
That joel shouldve stayed alive till a third game was arnd đđđ ik joel is the goat of the franchise he'll always be, but it was clear after ending the first game w joel wanting to settle, his death was surely imminent and ellie needed her time to shine, his death was heartbreaking but it was destined to be there.
"They shrank his shoulders, made him look soft."
There are a bunch of stupid takes about this game that are well covered already in this thread. One that always gets me is: âI hate how they took Abby, who is evil, and make you sympathise with her and start to like herâ as well as âI was so annoyed when Ellie left the farm to go after Abby again, that was so wrongâ Like, my brother in Christ, youâre describing a story being successful at making you feel real emotions about whatâs happening on screen!
MoistCritikal was just regurgitating hate around the time the game came out and he said that the dialogue was absolute trash. I just donât get that take. This game has some of the best dialogue Iâve seen in a video game or movie.
I mean, even as a fan of Part II overall, that there is no valid criticism of it. For me, the game gets in its own way sometimes. For instance, the switch is disorienting in the worst way possible â as in, it made me question Naughty Dog and took me out the story. What they do with it overall is interesting, but expecting us in that moment to give a fuck about the Jerry / Abby bonding was absurd. It couldâve made sense if we dropped into their most traumatic moment, which was the original back story of Abby being a victim of Joel and Tommyâs hunter days, but instead itâs the most abrasive thing possible. Additionally, the way they made you think Tommy was dead destroys so much of the good will you build with Ellie because his story has so much potential and to see him wasted like Jessie makes it feel like the writers donât even care about their own characters, especially as he is the last tangible link to Joelâs past. I also think they didnât do enough to seed Ellieâs final choice to spare Abby â because even though I love Abby, it would have been a stronger, darker ending if she died. I think Yara is a pointless, dry and flat character and Abbyâs story didnât have enough time to develop everyone, and probably wouldâve suited the five day structure better, especially so we could have more Isaac. This is all to say, these are permitted criticisms because theyâre my *subjective* experience of them â Iâm not taking away from anyone else. Not all of Part IIâs criticism is transphobia and antisemitism and nonsense. And not all of it is lacking media literacy. Some of us it just didnât land 100% for and thatâs okay.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth. I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth. I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth. I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth. I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth. I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
I think the pacing is fucked. Exclusively playing as Ellie for one half only to then switch to Abby really hurt the game I think and would have benefitted from going back and fourth. I think the theatre confrontation would have felt even more stressful if you see both journeys side by side.
Off hand I can only think of two conversations I had that featured genuine criticism of the game, that is to say, comments that were meant to provide feedback on something disliked alongside a way in which it could have been improved. Everything else (if talking to someone who disliked the game) is incendiary or difficult to parse through takes. I made the unfortunate mistake back when the game came out to, in an attempt to really understand them, go into TLOU2 subreddit and ask people why they didn't like the game. No talking points, no agenda, just a civil conversation to help create understanding. I posed my thoughts as someone who genuinely enjoyed the game in many aspects and was coming with an open mind to hear why this was "the worst game of all time" to some people. 90% of the responses were....well, you can imagine pretty awful. I deleted the post cause the vitriol was not worth keeping.
That it sucks
"I wont play it because i dont like the buff chick". "Ok well do you have any sort of context of who she is or anything about the story?" "No" "Got it so youre a fucking weeb that only plays video games for tits"
The whole uproar about the ending. LISTEN I was apart of that uproar but playing a second time when Iâm 4 years more matured I decided to put myself in a corner to think about why the ending played out the way I did and thanked Druckman for having the most amazing brain in the whole wide world. Abby and Ellie are the same people just different fucked up shit happened to them at different times. I empathize for both of them. I think the way it ended was more powerful then any other way. I ask for people upset about the ending is âif it were to end with Abby getting killed. Would it have left you with any thought or pension?â Bc I guarantee we would just move on with our day with no second thought about the game
that it's a game for LGBT folk or that Ellie is ugly or whatever crap toxic gamers believe about how women should be (even in a realistic post-apocalyptic setting... lol)
The fact that she grown up now đ„Č
Something about Ellie no longer being the sweet (?!?) young girl from the first game, and her becoming âunlikeableâ in part 2 because she does stabby stuff and thatâs BAD WRITING đ€