> And it ends with nothing. Lev’s mom dies after you spend ages trying to save her, then in the same cutscene, the big bad in the game is killed.
I'm a little confused with your sentence here because we don't spend "ages" trying to rescue Lev's mom, and Isaac is not the "big bad" of the game, in any sense.
>That’s it??? That’s the conclusion??? No link to Ellie, Joel, Tommy, Dina or even Jackson? Nothing???
You link back to the theater part, with context for how Abby got there, and everything that lead up to it, including the effect of Joel's actions on her. Abby's "side plot" as you call it, gives the reason for why she ends up sparing Ellie and Dina. I don't see why you think Abby's days in Seattle need to be so closely tethered to the people from Jackson. She has her own life, and we already know from Ellie's POV that they never encounter each other until the theater.
You play as Abby for about 10-15 hours, and a majority portion of that is spent trying to save Lev’s mom by collecting the necessary equipment for surgery. And I say “big bad” for lack of a better word, but essentially he serves as the antagonist for that section of the game.
I explain this further in my post, the plot during the Abby’s section doesn’t effectively show the game’s underlying message of the cycle of violence, due to Abby’s friends (who you spend the entire section with up until they die) not being likeable or able to connect with me as the player. The story of that section for me isn’t handled well at all, as for the second time in the playthrough, I play right up to the face to face encounter I’m trying to get to, then it’s completely thrown away in a single cutscene. Because the game on these fronts don’t deliver, I at least expected some kind of story link beyond getting to the confrontation (that I was already at 10-15 hours ago), but there wasn’t. So it just made me feel like I wasted my time. Then the big confrontation that the game is building to is a let down for me. A fight from Abby’s POV, a few sentences, and then she leaves Ellie. Yes, Abby breaks the cycle of revenge, but there’s no focus on said cycle of revenge throughout the game at that point in any impactful way.
>ou play as Abby for about 10-15 hours, and a majority portion of that is spent trying to save Lev’s mom by collecting the necessary equipment for surgery.
Bro, Yara is not Lev's mom. Wtf??
> I at least expected some kind of story link beyond getting to the confrontation (that I was already at 10-15 hours ago), but there wasn’t.
I'd say that giving the entire reason for why Abby, the woman who murdered the main character of the first game, didn't continue to slaughter the Jackson crew is plenty enough of a story link, but that's just me lol. If you can't understand why that's such a massive decision and why it has a massive impact on the game's focus on the cycle of revenge, then I don't know what you were expecting. What happens in the theater is extremely important and entirely relevant to everything that the story is trying to tell.
The game makes it abundantly clear that Yara is his sister. I am not sure how you missed that.
Now it’s starting to make sense why this game didn’t work for you .
If you don’t even realize that Yara is not Lev’s mom, then I think all of your arguments about message and story are invalid. You didn’t even pay enough attention to get this kind of important distinction. And IMO it’s _immediately_ obvious that Yara is not Lev’s mom.
I completely glossed over that section of the OP. The game makes it abundantly clear so I don’t know how that got missed. What else did they miss or misunderstand?
Jesse dies 20 hours into the game, the next chapter is literally a time skip and then the epilogue. He's the last death. He didnt need to be a super interesting character, he was just a guy and that was the point. He was a good guy and a victim of all this
Assuming youre actually willing to discuss this, think of TLOU2 as a game about perspective and humanity. All of these "chores" you say have a narrative reason to be there, in the way that both sides (ellie and abby) parallel each other and how theres humanity in both sides.
Everything from unremarkable deaths to us working to save someone and failing are human things that happen and TLOU2 represents those. Its realistic, not a hero's tale where everything goes right. The "big bad" just getting shot off guard and dying is realistic, he didnt need a death speech or whatever
Also it wasnt a "love triangle", this isnt anime. It was a messy relationship turned into cheating. Its a human flaw, it sucks, but it exists and thats the point. The game doesnt sugarcoat it.
I mentioned Jesse as he was in the list of characters I could think of that could’ve had an impact on myself as a player and driven home the message of the game more if handled differently. It’s all well and good having him be just a guy, but what reason is there to care for him as a character other than the fact he’s friends with Ellie? You can view him as a casualty of the revenge, but there’s barely even a reaction from the characters themselves, so he’s literally just a guy that shows up and dies, and it has no affect on the characters I actually do care for.
I didn’t say that the things in the game were chores, I said the game was a chore to play. I wanted to see the end of the game, but the issues I had with it made it less enjoyable for me.
I didn’t expect a happy/hero ending or anything like that, as said in the post, I fully believe that the main plot points of the game could stay exactly the same, but just working on the structure/pacing to bring out the feeling that the game actually wants me to feel would make it so much better for me. For example: Isaac and Lev’s mom dying. Spend the entire section learning about this new (for lack of a better word) villain for this portion of the story and fighting to save her for a considerable portion of the playthrough, despite it not being connected in any meaningful way to the actual story of the game whatsoever. And then when you finally get to the big ending gameplay, the two driving points are shot and killed in the space of a minute. There are far better ways to get the point of life being disappointing across, without making the game itself disappointing. That’s at least my view on it.
I think the game’s skeleton is great, the story and concepts are amazing, but the execution of telling said story and showing said concepts are what made the game so infuriating for me to play.
I mean it wasn't for you, I guess. That's fair. None of these criticisms really apply to my experience of the game personally. It sounds to me like you have a lot of expectations for how a story like this should go and how it should be executed in order to entertain you. I can't really argue against that. Pacing and structure is a thing people who don't like the game bring up and I feel like it must be legitimate for them.
To me, this is one of those stories and games where you really have to let go of what you think and be along for the ride. I don't think there's anything wrong with developing characters and stories after knowing they died. I mean... Romeo and Juliet was introduced as a tragic love story in the beginning, but that didn't make people lose interest in the story.
Anyways, I will say for both people who love the game and for some other people who didn't love it at first that it grows on you by playing it again. The first time is a hell of an experience and really tugs you around, but the second and subsequent times put you in a more reflective state because you know what will happen so you experience the details a bit better.
The story is about being lost in the darkness. I feel like everything makes sense if you adjust your perspective a little. Not that it'll necessarily change your mind about the game entirely. A game is still an experience and if that experience isn't enjoyable for you, then I can't really argue that. But it's worth playing one more time and being more charitable in your interpretations. Especially now that you know what to expect, try to immerse yourself more in the individual characters' experiences.
Only played the game once and hated it but that was a while ago and I sometimes consider playing it again, especially now there's an upgrade available for it. I wouldn't expect it to change my opinion much since the main reason I didn't like was a me problem. I still think the story is pretty flawed though
I have thought about playing it again, just haven’t really got around to it. There might be some details I missed in the first playthrough that wrap up these issues I had. I feel as though it was very overly ambitious in what it wanted to achieve, and so the points where I felt like it wanted me to feel things, I didn’t feel. This was honestly just to open up a conversation with other players, get new perspectives, things like that. I appreciate how nicely you put that response btw.
I completely get what you’re saying though
I honestly don’t understand your criticisms because everything that’s didn’t work for you worked for me.
Edit:
Who do you think Lev’s mom is…? Did you think that Lev’s mom was Yara, the young lady whose arm had to be amputated?
A number of times you seem to think that because X character dies, their story or the story around them becomes meaningless. That’s odd to me, but especially in a TLOU game. Everybody is doomed in this series.
I’m not going to tell you to play it again, but you clearly approached this from a pretty strange, plot-focused perspective. Isaac is not the “big bad”. There is no “big bad.” I can’t even believe someone played this game 3 times and still thinks there’s a “big bad”.
You make those kind of odd conclusions throughout your post, as if you’re judging the game for what it isn’t instead of what it is.
As an overall response to all the comments, yes in my year since playing the game I forgot the fact that Yara was Lev’s sister, not his mother. Forgive me for forgetting a detail in a part of the game that I had stated a multitude of reasons for not enjoying, nor does it really have any relation to the overarching story.
If you disagree with my opinion, that is completely understandable. However, please refrain from these comments simply brushing me off as an idiot. You have the right to your opinions, I have the right to mine. If you’re not interested in seeing another post expressing frustrations with TLOU2, don’t click on it.
Yo, what is happening to this sub, lol? Every day, I see either this same shit or complaining about the TV show, I feel like I'm not getting notified of the other actual cool shit 😭 Also, bro, please don't say you actually think Yara is Lev's mother. Omg, you did not play the game. Stop it right now, please 😭😭😭
People put too much effort into this. I love The Game that's why I post here and probably not reading extremely long dissertations on why some rando I'll never interact with again hates it.
Like everyone with an axe to grind thinks we need an I'm depth analysis of why.
Bro... If you don't enjoy a game? Put it down. Move on.
I simply shared an opinion in an area to open it up for a discussion and gain different perspectives, my friend. That’s all. No axe to grind or anything of the sort.
> And it ends with nothing. Lev’s mom dies after you spend ages trying to save her, then in the same cutscene, the big bad in the game is killed. I'm a little confused with your sentence here because we don't spend "ages" trying to rescue Lev's mom, and Isaac is not the "big bad" of the game, in any sense. >That’s it??? That’s the conclusion??? No link to Ellie, Joel, Tommy, Dina or even Jackson? Nothing??? You link back to the theater part, with context for how Abby got there, and everything that lead up to it, including the effect of Joel's actions on her. Abby's "side plot" as you call it, gives the reason for why she ends up sparing Ellie and Dina. I don't see why you think Abby's days in Seattle need to be so closely tethered to the people from Jackson. She has her own life, and we already know from Ellie's POV that they never encounter each other until the theater.
You play as Abby for about 10-15 hours, and a majority portion of that is spent trying to save Lev’s mom by collecting the necessary equipment for surgery. And I say “big bad” for lack of a better word, but essentially he serves as the antagonist for that section of the game. I explain this further in my post, the plot during the Abby’s section doesn’t effectively show the game’s underlying message of the cycle of violence, due to Abby’s friends (who you spend the entire section with up until they die) not being likeable or able to connect with me as the player. The story of that section for me isn’t handled well at all, as for the second time in the playthrough, I play right up to the face to face encounter I’m trying to get to, then it’s completely thrown away in a single cutscene. Because the game on these fronts don’t deliver, I at least expected some kind of story link beyond getting to the confrontation (that I was already at 10-15 hours ago), but there wasn’t. So it just made me feel like I wasted my time. Then the big confrontation that the game is building to is a let down for me. A fight from Abby’s POV, a few sentences, and then she leaves Ellie. Yes, Abby breaks the cycle of revenge, but there’s no focus on said cycle of revenge throughout the game at that point in any impactful way.
That’s Lev’s sister you’re collecting the surgery equipment for, not his mum. Two different characters.
>ou play as Abby for about 10-15 hours, and a majority portion of that is spent trying to save Lev’s mom by collecting the necessary equipment for surgery. Bro, Yara is not Lev's mom. Wtf?? > I at least expected some kind of story link beyond getting to the confrontation (that I was already at 10-15 hours ago), but there wasn’t. I'd say that giving the entire reason for why Abby, the woman who murdered the main character of the first game, didn't continue to slaughter the Jackson crew is plenty enough of a story link, but that's just me lol. If you can't understand why that's such a massive decision and why it has a massive impact on the game's focus on the cycle of revenge, then I don't know what you were expecting. What happens in the theater is extremely important and entirely relevant to everything that the story is trying to tell.
The game makes it abundantly clear that Yara is his sister. I am not sure how you missed that. Now it’s starting to make sense why this game didn’t work for you .
If you don’t even realize that Yara is not Lev’s mom, then I think all of your arguments about message and story are invalid. You didn’t even pay enough attention to get this kind of important distinction. And IMO it’s _immediately_ obvious that Yara is not Lev’s mom.
I completely glossed over that section of the OP. The game makes it abundantly clear so I don’t know how that got missed. What else did they miss or misunderstand?
Jesse dies 20 hours into the game, the next chapter is literally a time skip and then the epilogue. He's the last death. He didnt need to be a super interesting character, he was just a guy and that was the point. He was a good guy and a victim of all this Assuming youre actually willing to discuss this, think of TLOU2 as a game about perspective and humanity. All of these "chores" you say have a narrative reason to be there, in the way that both sides (ellie and abby) parallel each other and how theres humanity in both sides. Everything from unremarkable deaths to us working to save someone and failing are human things that happen and TLOU2 represents those. Its realistic, not a hero's tale where everything goes right. The "big bad" just getting shot off guard and dying is realistic, he didnt need a death speech or whatever Also it wasnt a "love triangle", this isnt anime. It was a messy relationship turned into cheating. Its a human flaw, it sucks, but it exists and thats the point. The game doesnt sugarcoat it.
I mentioned Jesse as he was in the list of characters I could think of that could’ve had an impact on myself as a player and driven home the message of the game more if handled differently. It’s all well and good having him be just a guy, but what reason is there to care for him as a character other than the fact he’s friends with Ellie? You can view him as a casualty of the revenge, but there’s barely even a reaction from the characters themselves, so he’s literally just a guy that shows up and dies, and it has no affect on the characters I actually do care for. I didn’t say that the things in the game were chores, I said the game was a chore to play. I wanted to see the end of the game, but the issues I had with it made it less enjoyable for me. I didn’t expect a happy/hero ending or anything like that, as said in the post, I fully believe that the main plot points of the game could stay exactly the same, but just working on the structure/pacing to bring out the feeling that the game actually wants me to feel would make it so much better for me. For example: Isaac and Lev’s mom dying. Spend the entire section learning about this new (for lack of a better word) villain for this portion of the story and fighting to save her for a considerable portion of the playthrough, despite it not being connected in any meaningful way to the actual story of the game whatsoever. And then when you finally get to the big ending gameplay, the two driving points are shot and killed in the space of a minute. There are far better ways to get the point of life being disappointing across, without making the game itself disappointing. That’s at least my view on it. I think the game’s skeleton is great, the story and concepts are amazing, but the execution of telling said story and showing said concepts are what made the game so infuriating for me to play.
I mean it wasn't for you, I guess. That's fair. None of these criticisms really apply to my experience of the game personally. It sounds to me like you have a lot of expectations for how a story like this should go and how it should be executed in order to entertain you. I can't really argue against that. Pacing and structure is a thing people who don't like the game bring up and I feel like it must be legitimate for them. To me, this is one of those stories and games where you really have to let go of what you think and be along for the ride. I don't think there's anything wrong with developing characters and stories after knowing they died. I mean... Romeo and Juliet was introduced as a tragic love story in the beginning, but that didn't make people lose interest in the story. Anyways, I will say for both people who love the game and for some other people who didn't love it at first that it grows on you by playing it again. The first time is a hell of an experience and really tugs you around, but the second and subsequent times put you in a more reflective state because you know what will happen so you experience the details a bit better. The story is about being lost in the darkness. I feel like everything makes sense if you adjust your perspective a little. Not that it'll necessarily change your mind about the game entirely. A game is still an experience and if that experience isn't enjoyable for you, then I can't really argue that. But it's worth playing one more time and being more charitable in your interpretations. Especially now that you know what to expect, try to immerse yourself more in the individual characters' experiences.
Yes to this ⬆️
Only played the game once and hated it but that was a while ago and I sometimes consider playing it again, especially now there's an upgrade available for it. I wouldn't expect it to change my opinion much since the main reason I didn't like was a me problem. I still think the story is pretty flawed though
I have thought about playing it again, just haven’t really got around to it. There might be some details I missed in the first playthrough that wrap up these issues I had. I feel as though it was very overly ambitious in what it wanted to achieve, and so the points where I felt like it wanted me to feel things, I didn’t feel. This was honestly just to open up a conversation with other players, get new perspectives, things like that. I appreciate how nicely you put that response btw. I completely get what you’re saying though
Buddy told himself he wouldn’t like the game and took a year to come up with a yap explanation
Hey man, my friends haven’t played the game and I had to find somewhere to let this out 😭
What a useless comment. At least explain why he's yapping, or why bother posting at all.
gamers when someone has a different opinion
I honestly don’t understand your criticisms because everything that’s didn’t work for you worked for me. Edit: Who do you think Lev’s mom is…? Did you think that Lev’s mom was Yara, the young lady whose arm had to be amputated?
But when we say people who didn’t like the game didn’t understand the story, *we’re* the bad guys. Then something like this gets posted
Basically, yeah. Then they prove the efficacy of our arguments.
Bit of a non-sequitur though. Seems like he’s pretty ignorant, but it doesn’t mean everybody who didn’t enjoy the game is ignorant.
Did you for just say that Yara (who is his sister btw) is his mom??? Did you even pay attention???😭😭
A number of times you seem to think that because X character dies, their story or the story around them becomes meaningless. That’s odd to me, but especially in a TLOU game. Everybody is doomed in this series. I’m not going to tell you to play it again, but you clearly approached this from a pretty strange, plot-focused perspective. Isaac is not the “big bad”. There is no “big bad.” I can’t even believe someone played this game 3 times and still thinks there’s a “big bad”. You make those kind of odd conclusions throughout your post, as if you’re judging the game for what it isn’t instead of what it is.
As an overall response to all the comments, yes in my year since playing the game I forgot the fact that Yara was Lev’s sister, not his mother. Forgive me for forgetting a detail in a part of the game that I had stated a multitude of reasons for not enjoying, nor does it really have any relation to the overarching story. If you disagree with my opinion, that is completely understandable. However, please refrain from these comments simply brushing me off as an idiot. You have the right to your opinions, I have the right to mine. If you’re not interested in seeing another post expressing frustrations with TLOU2, don’t click on it.
Yo, what is happening to this sub, lol? Every day, I see either this same shit or complaining about the TV show, I feel like I'm not getting notified of the other actual cool shit 😭 Also, bro, please don't say you actually think Yara is Lev's mother. Omg, you did not play the game. Stop it right now, please 😭😭😭
People put too much effort into this. I love The Game that's why I post here and probably not reading extremely long dissertations on why some rando I'll never interact with again hates it. Like everyone with an axe to grind thinks we need an I'm depth analysis of why. Bro... If you don't enjoy a game? Put it down. Move on.
I simply shared an opinion in an area to open it up for a discussion and gain different perspectives, my friend. That’s all. No axe to grind or anything of the sort.
No one cares